Second battery

[Geedublya]

I'm keen to put my 40l Engel in the back of the new RRS, plus I like having the extra capacity for when it's connected to the caravan. I had a suspicion that there was a lot of room behind the panels in the load area and went looking yesterday to see if I could make a bracket to hold a decent sized battery and tray.
I looked in the LHS first and there is a lot of room in there but i couldn't see much to mount a tray which will carry around 30kg of battery. The RHS was a different story there is already a spot for a second battery! Measuring it up it looks like an Optima D34 will fit nicely. I'll take the one out of my D4 today for a trial fit.
It is right next to the fuse box and the main battery is very close with positive and negative terminals right next to it so the wiring to the battery isolator will be nice and short and tucked away neatly.

137669

[Graeme]

That's the spot for the stop-start battery.
Someone makes a bracket for the LHS.

[Geedublya]

That's the spot for the stop-start battery.
Someone makes a bracket for the LHS.

Yes, I saw Bobd had one for his 405, I don’t know if it would fit the RRS though and I think if the D34 fits here it will be perfect.

[Graeme]

Yes, and if there was a stop-start battery there then replace it which disables stop-start nicely anyway.

[SBD4]

They've 'hidden' the stop/start battery elsewhere on MY16 and above.

[Gregz]

Hi Geedublya, I haven't actually looked behind my panels to see where the 2nd battery is, just assumed it was in there. Thanks for the tip, I will take a look and see where mine is.... might get some more storage space available. Did you happen to take a photo inside of the LHS panel?
I don't carry a refrigerator in the car, but there is one in the caravan. The car came with 12 pin socket already fitted, but the caravan plug is only 7 pins.... I have just now jaycar'd up a connection to get 12v power topping up the caravan battery while on the move, so the caravan battery can run the refrigerator without dropping too much charge. All this to be fully tested, and a bit mickey-mouse, but looks like it could work. So I bought a 12 pin plug from which I can get access to the other 5 pins, connected to a 7 pin socket that is just straight through from the normal 7 pin socket on the car to the caravan 7 pin plug. From pins 9 & 10 (I think) I get 12v ignition-switched plus earth. Pin 8 is permanent 12v - I didn't want to use this in case I drain the battery when the car is switched off. I feed this through a 15A fuse (just guessing this is something less than what the circuit in the car is) and a Wattmeter through to the anderson plug which goes into the solar controller in the van. When I hook it all up, I can see that it draws somewhere between 3 - 5 A, I am hopeful that not too much more will be sucked up by the caravan battery if it is a bit more depleted. In the caravan I can see that the solar controller thinks it is getting power from solar panels. Will be testing it more over the Easter weekend.
137723137724137726

[Graeme]

I feed this through a 15A fuse (just guessing this is something less than what the circuit in the car is) and a Wattmeter through to the anderson plug which goes into the solar controller in the van.

I would not feed 12V from the car into the solar controller's solar panel input. The solar panels operate at too high a voltage for the car's 12V system so you risk damage to the car's electronics and if the controller is an MPPT controller then you prevent the solar regulator from doing its job maximising output. The car's 12V feed should go to the van's battery.

[Gregz]

I would not feed 12V from the car into the solar controller's solar panel input. The solar panels operate at too high a voltage for the car's 12V system so you risk damage to the car's electronics and if the controller is an MPPT controller then you prevent the solar regulator from doing its job maximising output. The car's 12V feed should go to the van's battery.


Thanks Graeme, I wont be connecting the car up to the caravan if the solar panels are connected up to the caravan... it will be either/or not both at once - I only have the one anderson plug on the caravan, and the solar panels are portable not fixed to the caravan, so physically impossible. So, should be all good from that perspective (hopefully) [bighmmm]

[Burble]

Thanks for the RHS pic.. that's a great spot for the battery!

For the caravan hot wire I ran a new cable from the battery to the 12pin trailer socket. In my van I have a DCDC and it will happily pull 40A from the car, so the factory 15A feed wasn't good enough for me.

[Geedublya]

More photos with the D34 in place, It will fit nicely I just have to fabricate a hold down bracket. It really is an easy spot with the positive lead from the battery next to it and the earth stud just a bit further away.

138015


138013


LHS with panel removed.

138016

138017

[Burble]

So good.. this is now on my list to do. Thanks!

[Burble]

Just thinking about this a bit more.. does the RRS have a variable voltage alternator?.. and what type of battery is the OEM starter?..

The reason I ask is.. you've just installed and optima yellow which is AGM. The AGMs need a different charge profile to fully recharge.

If the OEM starter is also AGM then it's all good but if not then you may need a DC2DC to get the voltage up high enough to charge the AGM.

[Geedublya]

Standard battery is 850CCA AGM. I've run the D34 in my D4 for the last 5 years with no problems using a traxide SC80 and an ABG25 for the fridge. I'll probably buy a DT90 which combines the two this time.

just as an aside the location that I'm using isn't for the start stop battery but is for a larger 70ah battery used for cold climates. Looking at the parts catalogue there are two brackets to hold it down fairly expensive for the top one at $42 ex the UK.

[drivesafe]

Thanks Graeme, I wont be connecting the car up to the caravan if the solar panels are connected up to the caravan... it will be either/or not both at once - I only have the one anderson plug on the caravan, and the solar panels are portable not fixed to the caravan, so physically impossible. So, should be all good from that perspective (hopefully) [bighmmm]
Hi Greg, you can connect the solar output and power from the alternator without causing any sort of problems.

As you have posted, at present you can only source power from one or the other, as your solar panel is a portable type.

But if you decide to fit solar panels to your caravan, then there is no issue with connecting the solar regulator’s output directly to your house battery and have the power coming from your alternator also connected to the same battery.

This type of setup would give you a much faster recharging of your house battery and is a very common type of system used in hundreds of thousands of motor homes and caravans.

[drivesafe]

Just thinking about this a bit more.. does the RRS have a variable voltage alternator?.. and what type of battery is the OEM starter?..

The reason I ask is.. you've just installed and optima yellow which is AGM. The AGMs need a different charge profile to fully recharge.

If the OEM starter is also AGM then it's all good but if not then you may need a DC2DC to get the voltage up high enough to charge the AGM.
Hi Burble and there is no need for a DC/DC charger in any Land Rover, including the latest with STOP/START function.

This includes charging house batteries in a caravan or camper trailer.

The voltage is variable but the claims made by the sellers of DC/DC device, that "you need a DC/DC device in vehicles with variable voltage, or you will never charge your auxiliary/house battery" is nothing more than pure scaremongering.

If there was a problem, then you would never be able to keep your cranking battery charger.

And note, Land Rovers have had variable voltage alternator operations since the D3 was introduced back in 2005.

Also, when charging direct from the alternator, you can have any mix of batteries and your alternator will charge all of them at their optimum charging requirement and will never over charge any one of them. DC/DC devices can not do that.

[drivesafe]

A word of warning for owners of vehicles with the STOP/START function.

Be very careful of using a DC/DC device in these vehicle, because there are going to be heaps of cranking batteries having a very short operating life, because DC/DC devices are very hard to set up so they do not overload the cranking battery, while the motor is off during a STOP/START event.

[Burble]

Thanks for the info guys.

My understanding was that an AGM needs to see a higher voltage to reach a full charge than the typical 13.6-13.8 of an traditional alternator. And that an AGM used in a cycling application will struggle to recharge with a variable voltage that often drops to 12v before it's replenished. It's not an issue for the starter as it's not cycling...cranking draws very little ah.

I don't want to highjack this thread but do you see any issues with the enerdrive DC2DC in my van wreaking havoc with the RRS charge circuit?.. it's charging a Lifepo4 battery so unavoidable.

[Graeme]

Hi Greg, you can connect the solar output and power from the alternator without causing any sort of problems.

As you have posted, at present you can only source power from one or the other, as your solar panel is a portable type.
I understood from what Greg wrote that he is feeding alternator output into the solar regulator, not connecting to the output of the solar regulator and because the van has a solar regulator I assumed that solar panels were on the van also feeding into the solar regulator at up to 20V, hence my concern.

[Graeme]

an AGM used in a cycling application will struggle to recharge with a variable voltage that often drops to 12v before it's replenished.These vehicles are NOT LC200's!

[drivesafe]

I understood from what Greg wrote that he is feeding alternator output into the solar regulator, not connecting to the output of the solar regulator and because the van has a solar regulator I assumed that solar panels were on the van also feeding into the solar regulator at up to 20V, hence my concern.
Hi Graeme, his first post was not that clear but his next post cleared up how he was connecting the two power supplies.

[drivesafe]

Thanks for the info guys.

My understanding was that an AGM needs to see a higher voltage to reach a full charge than the typical 13.6-13.8 of an traditional alternator. And that an AGM used in a cycling application will struggle to recharge with a variable voltage that often drops to 12v before it's replenished. It's not an issue for the starter as it's not cycling...cranking draws very little ah.
Wet cell batteries benefit from much higher voltages than AGMs can tolerate.

Land Rover voltages can drop to 13.2v but they regularly peak at 14.7v.

So with these types of voltages, any type af lead acid battery will charge perfectly using nothing more than the Land Rover’s alternator. And note, the batteries will charge much faster as well.

Furthermore, using my isolators will mean the cranking battery can be cycled down to 12.0v and with more than 4,500 D3s, D4s and RRS out there, fitted with my isolators, if there was a problem, it would have shown up by now.

Instead of causing problems, my isolators have been proven to not only do a far better job of charging auxiliary and house batteries, but they also improve the lifespan of the cranking battery.

No other system comes close to what my isolators achieve and that goes for any form of DC/DC setup.

[Barryp]

I have a 2017 L494.
Main battery is under the spare wheel but interested to find out if the second stop start battery is no longer behind the right rear panel (from comments above) does anyone know where it now resides?
Regards
Barry

[Geedublya]

I'm not sure it was ever behind the panel, it is a fairly small battery and doesn't need a lot of space. The diagram (http://new.lrcat.com/#!/12133/145960/146459/11894) I saw is inconclusive but does show it on it's side on the RHS near the main battery.

Probably the easiest way to determine the location is to remove the panels and the spare wheel and look around.

[Gregz]

I'm not sure it was ever behind the panel, it is a fairly small battery and doesn't need a lot of space. The diagram (http://new.lrcat.com/#!/12133/145960/146459/11894) I saw is inconclusive but does show it on it's side on the RHS near the main battery.

Probably the easiest way to determine the location is to remove the panels and the spare wheel and look around.


Mine is a MY 15.5 and I took the panel off to look, the Aux battery is in there . Also took the LHS panel off, and there is plenty of room in there, I may look at a way of modifying the panel to make an access door.

[Geedublya]

Mine is a MY 15.5 and I took the panel off to look, the Aux battery is in there . Also took the LHS panel off, and there is plenty of room in there, I may look at a way of modifying the panel to make an access door.

Thanks for checking. Can you see where the negative cable from the auxiliary battery goes?

[Gregz]

Thanks for checking. Can you see where the negative cable from the auxiliary battery goes?

Hi Geedublya, it goes straight to the body, you can see the bolt in the photo... the cable goes behind the red cable with black spiral tape. (the primary battery apparently has a BMS on its negative terminal)

What does Topix say about your aux battery? When I look in Topix for my VIN it has AUXILLARY BATTERY 14AH B19 . I am thinking your aux battery should be 70AH or thereabouts.... not sure where they could hide that [bighmmm] .

[Geedublya]

Hi Geedublya, it goes straight to the body, you can see the bolt in the photo... the cable goes behind the red cable with black spiral tape. (the primary battery apparently has a BMS on its negative terminal)

What does Topix say about your aux battery? When I look in Topix for my VIN it has AUXILLARY BATTERY 14AH B19 . I am thinking your aux battery should be 70AH or thereabouts.... not sure where they could hide that [bighmmm] .


Hi Greg, from what I understand reading the parts lists there are two auxiliary batteries available. A 14AH for normal stop start and a 70AH for cold climates. They both go into the same spot with different clamping systems. I suspect that cold climates use a lot more power with seat heaters, windscreen heaters, steering wheel heaters and so on and require the larger battery.
Fortunately mine has no stop start facility so I have an empty shelf and can use it for an optima D34 or some other suitably sized battery.


Is it the bolt I have circled in the picture? Sorry it isn't very clear to me looking at the picture

138051

[Gregz]

Is it the bolt I have circled in the picture?


Yes, that's it.
...Greg

[Graeme]

I'm not sure it was ever behind the panel, it is a fairly small battery and doesn't need a lot of space. The diagram (http://new.lrcat.com/#!/12133/145960/146459/11894) I saw is inconclusive but does show it on it's side on the RHS near the main battery.The MY14 that I had access to was fitted with the larger battery so perhaps initially LR considered that Australia was cold-climate but now not.

[Geedublya]

The MY14 that I had access to was fitted with the larger battery so perhaps initially LR considered that Australia was cold-climate but now not.


It may depend on if you select the cold climate pack when ordering.

[scott.strayhan]

Hello. NIce to meet everyone. I just purchased a 2017 RRS and I am attempting to track down the second battery (the stop/start one). I have removed the right rear side panel and there is no secondary battery there like others have posted (maybe different year). Mine also has the third row seat so not sure of that changes things. The main battery is under the rear package tray like most other RRS. Does anyone happen to know its location?

Scott

[Graeme]

No stop-start battery in later models but there's a capacitor in the same area that can be unplugged to disable stop-start.

[scott.strayhan]

No stop-start battery in later models but there's a capacitor in the same area that can be unplugged to disable stop-start.. Thank you so much. Doing further research I was able to locate what LR calls the VQM (voltage quality module) that sits very close to where the Aux Battery would be located. I unplugged the small molex connector on that and so far so good. No codes.

[Graeme]

Sorry, I meant to find a picture to post but forgot.

[Ian08]

Sorry, I meant to find a picture to post but forgot.

Thanks Graeme. I have a RRS 2015 MY16 Autobiography and have been taking panels off looking for the stop/start battery with no luck. So I was happy to find this thread. I've attached a photo of behind the RHS panel where the battery would be in other models but where the VQM is that Scott mentioned in mine. Can you tell me which of these plugs I disconnect to disable the stop start.

[Graeme]

I'm pretty sure its the small connector mentioned above, which should be the voltage sense connector.