Just quoted for $6,600 from Landrover - Brookvale NSW

[Lukeis]

Hm..

a little history..

I have had an intermittent issue for the past 12 months, can does into limp mode and is resolved by pulling over, turning off and on again then away the problem goes for another month or so.

The codes I received were initially P0087 which was for the first 8 months, then that code was replaced by P2290 which appeared for the past 2 months and finally last week a new code P0191 showed up. The problem has been posted about previously but due to its highly irregular nature I dealt with it for sometime all the while knowing from everything I have read it relates to a high or low pressure fuel pump.

So today I took it to LR and asked them to fix it. An hour ago I get a call from them saying they want $6,600 to replace the low pressure and high pressure fuel pump, fuel tank O ring and for a new timing belt kit.

I was anticipating one, not both and nothing prepared me for a $7K bill or the mention of a timing belt kit (car only has 120,000km - its a 2011 2.7L).

Their rationale to bill for both pumps is that it is actually the High pressure pump which is busted but they expect the low pressure pump will go soon as it has had to compensate. The timing belt kit is 'because we are in there already'.

My questions to any mechanics amongst us:

1) Would you do both pumps or just the one which is stuffed (HP)?
2) Is the timing belt kit a worthwhile addition, ie, are they really in the vicinity and this would have significant savings on labour later in life?
3) Is this cost anywhere close to reasonable?

I asked them how much it would be to just do the High pressure pump and not the timing belt or Low pump and they quoted 5.3K (he used a basic subtraction of $880 for the low pump and $400 odd for the timing belt, using these numbers they obviously did not adjust for the reduced labor - this seems wrong.

agh, i hate cars again.

[p38arover]

You might need one of the ACCC standard letters about durability of goods.

[scarry]

And a trip to a good Indy,for a second opinion.....

I am sure someone will chime in with one in your area.

[Tombie]

Not anything else, however the Timing belts should be done at 100k so if you haven’t, I would do that.

[Lukeis]

I believe the timing belts aren’t due to be done untill 168,000km.

[Tombie]

Yeah. I wouldn’t go there! It was shortened back to 100k

[DiscoJeffster]

Yeah. I wouldn’t go there! It was shortened back to 100k

?

[scarry]

Yeah. I wouldn’t go there! It was shortened back to 100k

TDI maybe?[biggrin]

Haven't heard of that,for D3/4 TDV6?

[scarry]

I believe the timing belts aren’t due to be done untill 168,000km.


On my Indies invoice,Timing belts,2.7,168K or 7 yrs,3.0L,186K or 8yrs.

Oh,and we will lighten your wallet substantially when they are done[biggrin]

[NomadicD3]

Yeah. I wouldn’t go there! It was shortened back to 100k

Struuuth Tombie, don't say that... I did the first at 170k and the second at 340k and that was still only just 4 years apart. At 100k I'll be doing them every 2 years[bigrolf].
At almost $2k each time the further apart the better LOL....

[Tombie]

$2k ****! I had the dealer do it.. $950

[Tombie]

I wouldn’t push it either. Any of that stuff let’s go and it won’t be anything under $10k

[Tombie]

TDI maybe?[biggrin]

Haven't heard of that,for D3/4 TDV6?

Spoke with my friend inside the dealer.. they were pulled back a while ago.

Had mine done at 102k and will repeat at 200k if I still have it.

[donh54]

Back to the OP - go to an Independent LR mob! That quote of $5.3K just for the HP pump tells me he's playing you for a sucker!

[NomadicD3]

$2k ****! I had the dealer do it.. $950
oh opps, I forgot to mention, I do preemptive strikes on water pumps, belt tensioners, fan belt and aahhhhh some other things that I can't think of right now. Even so $950 is very cheap?? the timing belt kit alone is about $400+ if memory servers me correct..
I was talking to a random D3 owner a few months back and he was saying he had his car from new and didn't do the belt until 220k and had over 350k on it and didn't have any issues.

OP-I was just talking to a mate who owns a landrover indi and is a life long landrover mechanic and seems to think that $6600 is about $600-$1000 over priced. Also remember there are 2 different types of in tank pumps. One cost about $450 and the other about $800.

[matti4556]

Had my timing belts done last September at 140K - cost $1595 at an indie LR specialist. This included new idler pulleys and tensioner etc.
Looking at the lack of access at the back of the engine bay I was more than happy to hand over the cash as it looks like a heck of a job.
So get the belts done instead, and change the HP pump while they are in there [bigsmile1]
So what about the LP fuel pump. Its in a completely different place so worry about that "if and when" it packs it in and save some coin.
That's my 10 cents worth.
Cheers - Matti

[Grappler]

The rear belt and tensioner would come off to replace the pump. So would be an obvious choice to changeout
Unlike the front timing belt the rear pump belt is not catastrophic if it fails
Im told to replace rear belt and tensioner is 2.5 hours and can be done with difficulty with the "body on"

[DiscoJeffster]

Spoke with my friend inside the dealer.. they were pulled back a while ago.

Had mine done at 102k and will repeat at 200k if I still have it.

Surely if this were the case this information would come in the form of a TSB / formal release like all other updates and modifications/repairs. The lack of having seen any such thing on any of the forums or via topix etc has me (as usual) sceptical. I find it hard to believe this is the first we’re hearing about it? Surely we’d have heard everyone bleating about being told to do their belts early?

[LRD414]

So get the belts done instead, and change the HP pump while they are in there
So what about the LP fuel pump. Its in a completely different place so worry about that "if and when" it packs it in and save some coin.
This is exactly what I would do.

[DazzaTD5]

IMHO....

To the OP...
It looks like a case of "we really dont have a ****in clue, so are just going to roll with replacing everything to do with fuel delivery"
This is a typical bull**** way of repairing a vehicle, keep changing parts out until its fixed or the customers wallet is bled dry.
At the end of the day doing proper diagnostics cost time and money, so its done to a minimum.

Take to a decent mechanic that knows diesels.

[Tombie]

Surely if this were the case this information would come in the form of a TSB / formal release like all other updates and modifications/repairs. The lack of having seen any such thing on any of the forums or via topix etc has me (as usual) sceptical. I find it hard to believe this is the first we’re hearing about it? Surely we’d have heard everyone bleating about being told to do their belts early?

LRA are at the same:
TdV6 Timing Belt (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d4901_Disco_3_Timing_Belt.html)

Roverworks run with the UK interval.

The shortened time is Arduous use vehicles apparently...
Something to do with our operating environment increasing wear.

[DazzaTD5]

Spoke with my friend inside the dealer.. they were pulled back a while ago.

Had mine done at 102k and will repeat at 200k if I still have it.

I've not see that on Topix, I will eat my words if someone shows me, otherwise I call dealer bull**** on it

With the exception of D3's that have spent a lot of time up north in the iron ore, every belt I have done at 168K was in way better condition than other vehicles at change intervals.

[Lukeis]

Thanks all. Ive clarified a few further points

The LR rep said timing belt but he was wrong its not the timing (serpentine) belt etc, it’s just the rear belt as mentioned above.

LR want $5,300 for just the HP pump or $3,200 at the local indie.

Im thinking I will just do that at the Indie but get them to double check the diagnosis like Daz suggests.. My blood pressure has come down relative to the new quote.

[DiscoJeffster]

LRA are at the same:
TdV6 Timing Belt (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d4901_Disco_3_Timing_Belt.html)

Roverworks run with the UK interval.

The shortened time is Arduous use vehicles apparently...
Something to do with our operating environment increasing wear.

So in regard to the link, I’d agree, D3 with the oil pump issue should be done earlier as an opportunity to fix the pump before it fails.

As for arduous, sure, if you’re spending a lot of time in the dirt and dust, then premature failure might be a concern. I’d suggest for most people the original timing belt interval is fine, but like anything, the only thing hurt by servicing early is the bank balance.

Can’t say I’ve heard of belt failures, however cranks are a very different story.

[loanrangie]

United injection have new HP pumps for $1495.

Shop Online | Fuel Pumps | United Fuel Injection (https://www.unitedfuel.com.au/shop-online/products/fuel-pumps/7h2q9b395cg-ford-territory-2-7l-tdv6-diesel-pump)

[Lukeis]

Hmm.. thats a good price. Does anyone know how to fit it? easy/hard?

One thing the local indie LR specialist said to check was the 'fuel rail sensor connection' - can someone point me in the right direction? I have no idea what or where the fuel rail is.

[donh54]

The fuel rail is the pipe that supplies high pressure fuel to the injectors. No experience with the D3-4, but I know on the wife's car, the sensor reads the pressure available in the line. If this pressure appears to drop, the brain box can throw up all sorts of messages. On her car, a message about that usually means a dirty fuel filter, but according to most mechanics, it means replacing the sensor ($250), and four hours later the message comes back!

[Uberdisco]

I recently had similar issue... fixed egrs... and high pressure sensor on the fuel rail should cost u about $90. From ebay... plug and play... otherwise get your mechanic to do it.

[chw]

Hm..

a little history..

I have had an intermittent issue for the past 12 months, can does into limp mode and is resolved by pulling over, turning off and on again then away the problem goes for another month or so.

The codes I received were initially P0087 which was for the first 8 months, then that code was replaced by P2290 which appeared for the past 2 months and finally last week a new code P0191 showed up. The problem has been posted about previously but due to its highly irregular nature I dealt with it for sometime all the while knowing from everything I have read it relates to a high or low pressure fuel pump.

So today I took it to LR and asked them to fix it. An hour ago I get a call from them saying they want $6,600 to replace the low pressure and high pressure fuel pump, fuel tank O ring and for a new timing belt kit.

I was anticipating one, not both and nothing prepared me for a $7K bill or the mention of a timing belt kit (car only has 120,000km - its a 2011 2.7L).

Their rationale to bill for both pumps is that it is actually the High pressure pump which is busted but they expect the low pressure pump will go soon as it has had to compensate. The timing belt kit is 'because we are in there already'.

My questions to any mechanics amongst us:

1) Would you do both pumps or just the one which is stuffed (HP)?
2) Is the timing belt kit a worthwhile addition, ie, are they really in the vicinity and this would have significant savings on labour later in life?
3) Is this cost anywhere close to reasonable?

I asked them how much it would be to just do the High pressure pump and not the timing belt or Low pump and they quoted 5.3K (he used a basic subtraction of $880 for the low pump and $400 odd for the timing belt, using these numbers they obviously did not adjust for the reduced labor - this seems wrong.

agh, i hate cars again.


Hi again Luke,

as you know we had this same issue with our MY12 2.7 TDV6 in the middle of last year (127,265 km).

We had the HPFP replaced, along with the timing belt/pump drive belts in at the end of Sept last year (PCB Independent Land Rover Specialists here in Adelaide - www.pcblandrovers.com.au/ )

After testing the LPFP it was considered that it was running within specifications and not replaced. The replacement of the HPFP and belts was a one day job (albeit being at the back of the motor it's a pain)

- HPFP - $2142
- Timing belt kit - $195
- labour (6.5 hours) - $926

Total - $3263

11,200 km later (now 138,482 km) it's been trouble free, and no issues with the Low Pressure Fuel Pump.

Sounds to me like $6600 is way over the top, even with the replacement of the LPFP, although it does make a lot of sense to replace the timing belts at the same time as the HPFP rather than repeat the whole process somewhere not too far down down the track for a similar labour price.

Spend the savings with a trip to the Flinders Ranges :)

Craig

[Roscoe01]

Biggest Problem for you is he is probably going 'Body Off' ?

I had a small oil leak from the High Pressure fuel pump seal on the back of the engine next to the timing belt - Body off - A week in the shop.
I had them replace everything (consumable) back there as a precaution including belts (it had done 130k anyway so was overdue).
I did front timing belts a turbo oil feed upgrade any filters which needed doing and a diff oil change which they recommended and a few other minor things.

That little lot came to $5.5k (was from memory, $3.3k of labour for the Body Off part ?). Havent had a problem since and have peace of mind.

Whilst $7k sounds horrendous you are getting two pumps which would probably be super expensive thus putting my cost into perspective.

Still I would chase around and shop their price. Good Luck.

[WayneMac]

We bought a 2007 Disco3 2.7 TDV6 last year to tow our camper and have experienced the same problems. Got the errors, the limp mode, the restart numerous times. It took a while to diagnose the root of the problem as it usually occurred when the car was under load - ie towing. Fortunately the statutory warranty covered the replacement of the HPFP so I don't know the cost. But I have noticed a difference when driving, whether towing or not. More importantly no more stressful limp mode episodes in the middle of the City West flyover!

Incidentally we also had the 168k service done this week including new timing belt. All up the whole service came to about $1300. Just in time too as the belt had just started to tear on rhe edge... This was from a LR trained, now independent repairer. My experience with the shop has been nothing short of excellent but unfortunately for you its nowhere near Brookvale. But if you could save yourself a few grand in cost it would more than cover the cost of an Uber or two 😉. Happy to give you the details if you are interested.

[Tommy Armstrong]

I had the limp mode happen on my 2013 D4 SE about 6 months ago. Would run from anywhere between 60 seconds and 10 mins. Had to pull over, turn off then on again Took it to my landrover mechanic who isn't a dealer and he did a software upgrade and I was up and running again. I'm sure the dealer would of tried to rip me off as well.

[grounded]

Mileage is a pretty simple and shallow measurement of timing belt fatigue. alot depends on how much extreme temps they are exposed to and how much hot idling they do, any dust exposure etc etc. in the Top End we do them much sooner than 'due date' for these reasons, espec if the engine does a lot of hours as opposed to mileage.

I reckon just bite the bullet if you like the vehicle and your family does too... but it pays to realise any possibility it gets written off / stolen, the insurance co wont give a damn if you just put 6K into it :(

its just another reason to stick with the simpler diesels. i feel your pain, mate.

[simonmelb]

Grr.. Its threads like this that give me no incentive to upgrade from my D2 !

Surely with all the knowledge out there by now on these cars there's a proper diagnostic procedure that can be done by us home mechanics to determine whether a new HP or LP fuel pump is required??

$6.5 K buys a professionally rebuilt and fitted transmission in a D2.

I think some of you blokes are losing perspective of what are reasonable maintenance costs - either that or a D4 is really that good!!

[Salt grinder]

Hm..


agh, i hate cars again.

Don't hate the cars . . . . . . just hate those smug imperious dealers who think "you know nothing".
Remember when we used to fix these things ourselves ?

[afloat]

My earlier reply seems to have failed so I'll try again.

A few things to check

* Has the high pressure pump actually failed?

* Has the fuel filter ever been changed? A partially blocked filter might produce bizarre problems

* Is replacement of the high pressure pump a body off job? Replacement of its drive belt is not.

* Is replacement of the low pressure pump a body off job?

Get a detailed quote. The body can be removed in 2 hours or less and replaced in 2 /12 hours by a good operator.

Because access around the engine is difficult it is wise to follow through on some maintenance work while the body is off.

The camshaft front timing belt (service intervals seems to be 100,000 miles - 160,000km) is not a body off job but easier and quicker to do when the body is off. My Sport is an early one (2005) which had a potentially fragile cam belt idler boss on the oil pump. I had the belt and oil pump changed at 100,000km although the original belt proved to be sound.

Check/replace the plastic coolant manifold on top of the engine. Access is easy. The manifold can split, dump the coolant and result in complete engine failure. The original equipment part and periodical change is the economical approach. The aluminium after market replacement is expensive and, I understand, not without problems.

Suggest you get an assessment by a reputable independent Land Rover repairer. I use 4WD Industries at Maitland.

Good luck.

[andeck]

Afloat, 2/12 hours body replacement? Is that the 1....2.....drop approach? [emoji6] haha

[loanrangie]

We bought a 2007 Disco3 2.7 TDV6 last year to tow our camper and have experienced the same problems. Got the errors, the limp mode, the restart numerous times. It took a while to diagnose the root of the problem as it usually occurred when the car was under load - ie towing. Fortunately the statutory warranty covered the replacement of the HPFP so I don't know the cost. But I have noticed a difference when driving, whether towing or not. More importantly no more stressful limp mode episodes in the middle of the City West flyover!

Incidentally we also had the 168k service done this week including new timing belt. All up the whole service came to about $1300. Just in time too as the belt had just started to tear on rhe edge... This was from a LR trained, now independent repairer. My experience with the shop has been nothing short of excellent but unfortunately for you its nowhere near Brookvale. But if you could save yourself a few grand in cost it would more than cover the cost of an Uber or two 😉. Happy to give you the details if you are interested.

Did the $1300 include the oil pump as well ?, if so its a bargain, if not get it done asap.

[andrew53]

Hm..

a little history..

I have had an intermittent issue for the past 12 months, can does into limp mode and is resolved by pulling over, turning off and on again then away the problem goes for another month or so.

The codes I received were initially P0087 which was for the first 8 months, then that code was replaced by P2290 which appeared for the past 2 months and finally last week a new code P0191 showed up. The problem has been posted about previously but due to its highly irregular nature I dealt with it for sometime all the while knowing from everything I have read it relates to a high or low pressure fuel pump.

So today I took it to LR and asked them to fix it. An hour ago I get a call from them saying they want $6,600 to replace the low pressure and high pressure fuel pump, fuel tank O ring and for a new timing belt kit.

I was anticipating one, not both and nothing prepared me for a $7K bill or the mention of a timing belt kit (car only has 120,000km - its a 2011 2.7L).

Their rationale to bill for both pumps is that it is actually the High pressure pump which is busted but they expect the low pressure pump will go soon as it has had to compensate. The timing belt kit is 'because we are in there already'.

My questions to any mechanics amongst us:

1) Would you do both pumps or just the one which is stuffed (HP)?
2) Is the timing belt kit a worthwhile addition, ie, are they really in the vicinity and this would have significant savings on labour later in life?
3) Is this cost anywhere close to reasonable?

I asked them how much it would be to just do the High pressure pump and not the timing belt or Low pump and they quoted 5.3K (he used a basic subtraction of $880 for the low pump and $400 odd for the timing belt, using these numbers they obviously did not adjust for the reduced labor - this seems wrong.

agh, i hate cars again.


Just get a second opinion to compare without them know the first quote. If legit and you are keeping the car for a while fix the lot.

[Roadrunner230]

Hi again Luke,

as you know we had this same issue with our MY12 2.7 TDV6 in the middle of last year (127,265 km).

We had the HPFP replaced, along with the timing belt/pump drive belts in at the end of Sept last year (PCB Independent Land Rover Specialists here in Adelaide - www.pcblandrovers.com.au/ )

After testing the LPFP it was considered that it was running within specifications and not replaced. The replacement of the HPFP and belts was a one day job (albeit being at the back of the motor it's a pain)

- HPFP - $2142
- Timing belt kit - $195
- labour (6.5 hours) - $926

Total - $3263

11,200 km later (now 138,482 km) it's been trouble free, and no issues with the Low Pressure Fuel Pump.

Sounds to me like $6600 is way over the top, even with the replacement of the LPFP, although it does make a lot of sense to replace the timing belts at the same time as the HPFP rather than repeat the whole process somewhere not too far down down the track for a similar labour price.

Spend the savings with a trip to the Flinders Ranges :)

Craig

Price from island 4x4 Engine Parts - Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order. (https://www.island-4x4.co.uk/discovery-engine-parts-tdv6-c-2404_2594.html?page=2&sort=3a)

[Silenceisgolden]

- either that or a D4 is really that good!!

Yep, a D4 is really that good. My D2 was pretty good too, but the D4 trumps it hands down.

[Tombie]

Grr.. Its threads like this that give me no incentive to upgrade from my D2 !

Surely with all the knowledge out there by now on these cars there's a proper diagnostic procedure that can be done by us home mechanics to determine whether a new HP or LP fuel pump is required??

$6.5 K buys a professionally rebuilt and fitted transmission in a D2.

I think some of you blokes are losing perspective of what are reasonable maintenance costs - either that or a D4 is really that good!!

$6.5k buys a transmission for a $5k vehicle [emoji41]

Think back, injector replacement on a D2 was $10k, the in tank fuel pump was hundreds of dollars, and FPRs were not cheap.

[andeck]

Refercomments from donh54 and afloat, I 'third' the idea of low pressureside issues first.


Don't know if you have access to this info so thought i'd post it, below are some extracts from a workshopmanual I found online for the D4. The manual doesn't have the P2290 code in it, but Ifound someone asking for details of P2290 on Rrsport website, and itturned out to be their fuel filter.




P0087-00Fuel Rail/System Pressure
TooLow - no sub type
information


POSSIBLECAUSE:
Fuelrail pressure sensor
disconnected
Fuelrail pressure sensor to
EngineControl Module
sensingcircuit short circuit
toground
Fuelrail pressure sensor
supplycircuit high
resistance
Fuelrail pressure sensor
failure
Fuelline leak
Restrictedfuel line
Fuelpump module circuit
highresistance
Fuelpump module circuit
shortcircuit to ground
Fuelpump module failure
Volumecontrol valve fault
Pressurecontrol valve fault


ACTION:
Referto the electrical guides and check the
fuelrail pressure sensor circuits. For fuel rail
pressuresensor tests, refer to the relevant
workshopmanual section. Check the low
pressurefuel lines for damage or restrictions.
Checkthe fuel pressure. Check the low
pressurefuel pump module circuits and
operation.Check for fuel rail and high pressure
fuelline leaks. Check for volume control valve
andpressure control valve DTCs and rectify as
necessary




P0087-72Fuel rail/system pressure too
low- actuator stuck open


POSSIBLECAUSE:
Fuelpressure control valve
fault


Actuator stuck open


ACTION:
Referto the electrical circuit diagrams and
checkthe pressure control valve actuator
circuitsand rectify as necessary. Check the
resistanceof the fuel pressure control valve. If
theresistance is not between 0 and 5.4 ohms,
installa new high pressure fuel pump (the fuel
pressurecontrol valve cannot be serviced
separately).Refer to the relevant section of
theworkshop manual. Clear the DTCs and test
fornormal operation. Refer to the warranty
policyand procedures manual if a high pressure
fuelpump is suspect






P0191-23Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor A
CircuitRange/Performance -
signalstuck low


POSSIBLECAUSES:
FuelRail Pressure (FRP)
sensorcircuit
range/performance- signal
stucklow
Lowfuel level
Blocked/incorrectly
connectedlow-pressure fuel
lines
FRPsensor fault
Fuelpump module fault
ACTIONS:
Checkthe fuel level and the condition and
correctconnection of the low-pressure fuel
circuitlines (incorrect connection of the lines to
andfrom the fuel filter can cause serious fuel
pressurefluctuations). Check the FRP sensor
andcircuits. Check the fuel pump module and
circuits.Refer to the electrical circuit diagrams.
Repair/renewas necessary. Clear the DTCs and
testfor normal operation




P0191-24Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor A
CircuitRange/Performance -
signalstuck high


POSSIBLECAUSES:
FuelRail Pressure (FRP)
sensorcircuit
range/performance- signal
stuckhigh
FRPsensor fault


ACTIONS:
Checkthe FRP sensor and circuits. Refer to the
electricalcircuit diagrams. Start the engine and
allowto idle. Check the fuel pressure value
usinga data logger function. Stop the engine,
turnthe ignition on, and recheck the fuel
pressure.If the pressure is greater than 10
MPa(1,450 lbs/inÇ) after 0.4 seconds, install a
newsensor. Refer to the relevant section of
theworkshop manual. Clear the DTCs and test
fornormal operation
DTCDescription Possible Causes Action




P0191-65Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor A
CircuitRange/Performance -
signalhas too few transitions
/events


POSSIBLECAUSES:
FuelRail Pressure (FRP)
sensorcircuit
range/performance- signal
hastoo few
transitions/events
FRPsensor fault


ACTIONS:
Checkthe FRP sensor and circuits. Refer to the
electricalcircuit diagrams. Start the engine and
allowto idle. Check the fuel pressure value
usinga data logger function. Increase the
enginespeed to 2,000 rpm and recheck the
fuelpressure. If the value has changed by
morethan 40 MPa (5,801 lbs/inÇ) per 10 ms,
installa new sensor. Refer to the relevant
sectionof the workshop manual. Clear the
DTCsand test for normal operation

[regenmeister]

I would go to Ayr's Automotive in Brookvale who are specialists and price fair


Hm..

a little history..

I have had an intermittent issue for the past 12 months, can does into limp mode and is resolved by pulling over, turning off and on again then away the problem goes for another month or so.

The codes I received were initially P0087 which was for the first 8 months, then that code was replaced by P2290 which appeared for the past 2 months and finally last week a new code P0191 showed up. The problem has been posted about previously but due to its highly irregular nature I dealt with it for sometime all the while knowing from everything I have read it relates to a high or low pressure fuel pump.

So today I took it to LR and asked them to fix it. An hour ago I get a call from them saying they want $6,600 to replace the low pressure and high pressure fuel pump, fuel tank O ring and for a new timing belt kit.

I was anticipating one, not both and nothing prepared me for a $7K bill or the mention of a timing belt kit (car only has 120,000km - its a 2011 2.7L).

Their rationale to bill for both pumps is that it is actually the High pressure pump which is busted but they expect the low pressure pump will go soon as it has had to compensate. The timing belt kit is 'because we are in there already'.

My questions to any mechanics amongst us:

1) Would you do both pumps or just the one which is stuffed (HP)?
2) Is the timing belt kit a worthwhile addition, ie, are they really in the vicinity and this would have significant savings on labour later in life?
3) Is this cost anywhere close to reasonable?

I asked them how much it would be to just do the High pressure pump and not the timing belt or Low pump and they quoted 5.3K (he used a basic subtraction of $880 for the low pump and $400 odd for the timing belt, using these numbers they obviously did not adjust for the reduced labor - this seems wrong.

agh, i hate cars again.

[parriwi]

Hi, I have a 20011 Disco 4 (TDv6) 2.7l and had the same problem in Jul 16.

I also took it to Landrover Brookvale as my usual Landrover mechanic said he could not do it.

LR Brookvale originally quoted me $5200 to replace both pumps and N/S cam seal that was apparently leaking and could be changed at the same time.

After my heart palpitations had settled a bit they said they would look at an alternative. They ended up quoting for the same work using aftermarket parts for only $4K....including the car wash!!!! What a deal!!!.

My car was going into limp mode on a regular basis and I had no choice.

I don't see why they can't quote you for aftermarket parts and I am sure that the price has not gone up that much in the period since my car was repaired.
I also think that the comment about the reliability of the car and whether this is a design fault of Landrover that could be pursued through the ACCC is also worth investigating. Hope it helps.

[big harold]

Hi I have a 2.2 in a 2014 Defender.
I was towing my broken down 110 ( long story)and experienced the same fault as you were having.
This was when we left Glen Innes in the morning.
The low fuel rail pressure happened 6 times.
All while going up hill towing the load.
I just backed off for a little while and the fault did not reoccur.
My diagnosis was that the fuel was cold and the pump could not keep up with demand due to the load.
Or the up fuel pump needed to warm up to close the tolerances up.
Are you having these faults when cold?

[uteman]

I seriously doubt that both pumps have failed.
i had similar issues with L322 Rangie.
i am a mechanic by the way. I have replaced 2 low pressure pumps but never the H/P.
The low pressure pump satisfies primary fuel pressure switch and until that is satisfied the system will not operate.
you have nothing to lose by simply replacing the low pressure pump first as that is not difficult or expensive.
i even set up a pressure gauge on fuel supply from low pressure pump when I was trouble shooting the system.
Whilst I would always like to support other mechanics decisions the quote given to basically replace everything seems a bit like " if we replace everything it must be fixed"
It is your money Ralph!


Hm..
a little history..

I have had an intermittent issue for the past 12 months, can does into limp mode and is resolved by pulling over, turning off and on again then away the problem goes for another month or so.

The codes I received were initially P0087 which was for the first 8 months, then that code was replaced by P2290 which appeared for the past 2 months and finally last week a new code P0191 showed up. The problem has been posted about previously but due to its highly irregular nature I dealt with it for sometime all the while knowing from everything I have read it relates to a high or low pressure fuel pump.

So today I took it to LR and asked them to fix it. An hour ago I get a call from them saying they want $6,600 to replace the low pressure and high pressure fuel pump, fuel tank O ring and for a new timing belt kit.

I was anticipating one, not both and nothing prepared me for a $7K bill or the mention of a timing belt kit (car only has 120,000km - its a 2011 2.7L).

Their rationale to bill for both pumps is that it is actually the High pressure pump which is busted but they expect the low pressure pump will go soon as it has had to compensate. The timing belt kit is 'because we are in there already'.

My questions to any mechanics amongst us:

1) Would you do both pumps or just the one which is stuffed (HP)?
2) Is the timing belt kit a worthwhile addition, ie, are they really in the vicinity and this would have significant savings on labour later in life?
3) Is this cost anywhere close to reasonable?

I asked them how much it would be to just do the High pressure pump and not the timing belt or Low pump and they quoted 5.3K (he used a basic subtraction of $880 for the low pump and $400 odd for the timing belt, using these numbers they obviously did not adjust for the reduced labor - this seems wrong.

agh, i hate cars again.

[LRD414]

Surely if this were the case this information would come in the form of a TSB / formal release like all other updates and modifications/repairs. The lack of having seen any such thing on any of the forums or via topix etc has me (as usual) sceptical. I find it hard to believe this is the first we’re hearing about it? Surely we’d have heard everyone bleating about being told to do their belts early?

The shortened time is Arduous use vehicles apparently...
I finally found a copy of the service schedule that supports what Tombie has mentioned and it's not new; I think I downloaded these files from this forum a couple of years ago.

As you can see the Arduous Schedule lists timing belts for 91k/4 years for early model years and 112k/5 years for MY14 onwards.
If you ask a dealer specifically about the Arduous Schedule they will find this info in the system but in my experience they don't get much call for it, which is fair enough when the vast majority of customers don't need to follow it and they'd be accused of unnecessary gouging even more if it was suggested.

Whether an owner deems their usage to be Arduous is their choice so it's not something to be forced on you or moan about, it's up to you.

Scott

[dirvine]

Scott and Tombie, those schedules seem to conflict with what I was told when I purchased my vehicle. Mine has a "normal" schedule of 26,000kms/12 months. The type of schedule does follow your A,B,A,B, A, C etc. However I was told that if I put the car under "Hard" use (ie towing a caravan or lots of 4WDing, then the intrernal computer will automatically adjust the time period and/or kms traveled. My car came up with the 1st message at 20,000kms, with the message that the service was needed in 2K time. (ie at 22k not 26k). The 2nd came up at 41K, and the car was serviced at 43K. I do my own oil and filter change about 12K after the dealer service.

It seems that LR extended the standard service intervals to longer kms (not time) in the later D4s.

[WayneMac]

Did the $1300 include the oil pump as well ?, if so its a bargain, if not get it done asap.

Actually I don’t know. I’ll have to check the invoice to find out, thanks for the tip

[frenzy]

IMHO....

To the OP...
It looks like a case of "we really dont have a ****in clue, so are just going to roll with replacing everything to do with fuel delivery"
This is a typical bull**** way of repairing a vehicle, keep changing parts out until its fixed or the customers wallet is bled dry.
At the end of the day doing proper diagnostics cost time and money, so its done to a minimum.

Take to a decent mechanic that knows diesels.


The above is the best piece of advice you'll ever get
So many time I was told by the specialists "we'll investigate" and it meant changing things almost randomly or according to the fault code ( ECU, EGR, Air sensor, pumps etc) only to find the problem was not fixed and you are back to square one just with a lighter wallet.
Than I found an old fashion mechanic that eats breaths and s....ts diesel engines. Never went back to the specialist. He always tells me exactly what the problem/problems are ( or can be), shows me the faulty or broken parts once they are replaced.
Any car is only as good as the mechanic you know..... The worst are the "official mechanics" it's like comparing Mcdonald menu to Grandma's cooking.

[Lukeis]

Any tips on how you find a diesel specialist?

the local LR specialist (not LR dealer) is still $4,800 for both pumps and is warning me against doing just one of them as it could make it fail again if the LPFP isn’t supplying it correctly. It’s important to add he used to work at LR so I assume he follows the same book.

I need this resolved ASAP as it happened in the harbour tunnel last night.

The LPFP I could possibly do myself, I’m researching this right now

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Theres a tunnel under the harbour??


I need to get out more,,,[bigsad]

[rapserv]

Any car is only as good as the mechanic you know..... The worst are the "official mechanics" it's like comparing Mcdonald menu to Grandma's cooking.[/QUOTE]

You're not wrong!!
If you go into ANY dealers workshop .. you will find 'apprentices' working on your vehicle @ the 'qualified' mechanics $$$ rate.
Not only working on your vehicle ... but making all the mistakes that 'trainees' do on the job ... and not a qualified 'supervising' mechanic anywhere in site.
If you're not mechanically minded .... and not prepared to do the repairs yourself, as many have said ... find a REPUTABLE independent LR mechanic, who is familiar with your type/model of vehicle. Don't be afraid to get 2nd or 3rd opinions if you think things don't sound right.