Rear pillar lights wiring advice needed

[Cap]

OK, yes did a google search and couldnt find specifics, so ill ask :)

My 95 D1 has the park lights located on the bumper (along with indicators). At night, I want to have the lights also display on the main pillar. I pulled the top globe out and found it had a two-element globe in it, so great for both park/brake combo.

Problem is, I cant seem to work out how the lights operate. When I checked for power, ALL the plug pins have positive power to them directly, but are not on... makes me think that the circuit is activated when earth is switched?

So what is the best way to wire this up? I initially was using the same coloured (red/black) wire as the bumper park, but this didnt work of course as power is already there as I mentioned.

Cheers,

[AK83]

95 is an update, so the pillar lights should come on. (mine do).

So you shouldn't have to wire them up to come on, as you said, you have twin terminal globes.
Just be 100% sure they're working, and they're the correct type too.

There are two different twin terminal bulb types.
The type you need have to be the BAY15D, not BA15D(there's a difference).
The BAY15D also go by the term 1157 too.

The difference is that the two small side posts that lock the bulb into place need to be askew from each other, not directly opposed.

Seen both types, and it's easy to get confused.

The other thing is to be 100% sure that the globes aren't burned out.
Been there with my brothers D2, where it had no brake lights, and I spent hours looking for problems elsewhere, like wiring, earthing and brake switch, when the issue was both bulbs had blown.

So you shouldn't need to wire or rewire anything.

[Cap]

Thanks Arthur. I did find it strange that the unit allowed for a globe and yet not connected. I tend to also look for the complex solution so ill go back and re-check it all including bulb type.

Cheers,

[AK83]

The other thing to check is for continuity between the terminals at the connector to the bulb holder tracks.

Can't remember which is which, but on one side the tail light wire is red/black as you said, but on the other side I think it's Red/Orange .. or something.

So trace the connector to those wires, and with a (hopefully you have) multimeter, check for connection between that wire and the metal track at the base of the light where it connects the bulb holder.

You may have power at the wire, but it may not be transferring to the metal plate on the light unit.

[Cap]

OK, so I checked the bulb and it 'looks' ok with the offset pins, but of course will actually check the bulb tonight. If the bulbs are fine, then ill check the tracks as you suggest. Hopefully I can get this sorted relatively quickly, something that has been bothering me since I have owned it for a few years now but really never got to it until now.

[AK83]

quick easy check of the bulbs. coupe of lengths of wire connected to battery. Hold the earth on the main part of the body of the globe, and touch the positive cable end on each of the bottom poles.

[Cap]

More on this... globes both work. Wires that feed into the connector that operates the park like is not present... just an empty socket. So this may have been from factory??

I the connected that empty socket to a wire, then connected to the rear door globe Earth... worked but of course was then always on. So what cable colour goes to that socket?? Funny thing tho when connecting the bumper cable to the pillar connector it didnt turn on, so i suspect its something else going on.

Does anyone have a photo or colour of wire i should be using?

Cheers,

[AK83]

According to both the electrical circuit diagrams I have(RAVE and Haynes), the RHS feed is a Red/Black wire coming from Fuse F2 in the interior fuse box/
And the LHS uses a Red/Orange wire coming from F8 in that same fuse panel.

[Cap]

Yes, so pretty much what I thought given the colours on the bumper itself. I will give it another go, but I also forgot to mention that the indicators where also excluded in the pillar lights but someone in the past joined the wire from the bumper feed to the pillar plug and works well... this is the same principle I had in mind for the park lights but its been giving me the irrits!

[AK83]

Weird!
Unless someone's had problems with them, and thought just delete them from the setup or something.

I had a short burst of annoying indicator failures for a short while. I think more likely just cheapo dud bulbs, as I had about 3 fail consecutively in about 3-4weeks or something like that.
Issue was I had a lot of trouble getting the indicator bulb holder free(really tight fit) off the light unit, and you know that there's not a lot of room to get a hand in there easily.
(D2 is better in that the light unit comes out of the body at the back of the car instead .. kind'a more work, but less if that makes sense)

So with my indicators I made a decision to change them all to LEDs, thinking just get bulbs and replace them all.

... not so easy! Some worked, but the main ones didn't.
Then I spent a fair amount of time trying to find out why.
Needed an LED flasher unit(only found a type for the Defender), and then they all worked.

So (nearly)all my lights are now LEDs, except for the brake/tail bulbs. Can't work out why or how to get LEDs to just plug in and replace, and I don't want to go adding resistors into the circuits either(only way I know to get them working).
But with only 1 tail/brake LED bulb in the system it works fine. tails lights work, and brake lights work.
When I then fit the second tail/brake LED bulb, tails work but no brake lights(and I think it's a resistance related thing).

But, yeah, your bumper repeaters should be wired up to each pillar unit, and in the RHS pillar should also be the spare wire/loom/plug end that connects to the trailer plug. If towbar/light plug is fitted, will be connected, if no trailer setup then will just be a loose plug in the pillar.

[Cap]

Well makes me feel a bit better that these damn units are not as easy as I thought to re-wire. Ill check the fuses as I didnt know they had one each so I recon the passenger side may be blown as no power but doesnt explain drivers side. Ill hunt around to check for any suspect lose wires too.

Good info on the LEDs, I know who to ask if I go that way in future :)

[AK83]

I doubt it's the fuses(just gave that info so that you know where and what to look for if you had too)
Fuses also lop into other parts of the circuit too, like(can't remember exactly) but ciggie lighter, or interior lights, or something. Says on the drivers under dash drop down panel what those fuses ALSO protect.

eg. if one of those fuses were blown, then you front parkers(smaller light inside the headlight) won't come on either for that side of the light system.

ps. those parkers are a good little light to change to LED. You can leave them on all night and it won't drain your battery.

eg. when camping or in the bush at night and you just want a bit of ambient lighting, but not too bright. Brighter than the 5W T10- globe that should be in the headlight, but I think they're 0.5W .. and still 2 - 3x brighter than the incandescent globe type.

They're just a straight fit with LEDs.
I think my pack of 10 T10 LEDs cost about $4 or something not worth thinking about.

And that was one of the reasons I wanted to also fit the LED to the tails. Leaving them on as ambient lighting also has the tails on too, and they're my only 5w power draw. So while the LEDs(on parkers) otherwise draw about 1-2w, it's only those pillar tail globes that draw 10w out of the ~12W in total. If I can work out a way (or globe type) that will just plug and play, then the total power draw with the park lights on will end up being about 3w all up(ie. not 12W as it is now).
With all the globes as normal incandescents, the total power draw with the parkers on = about 30w or so.

[Cap]

Well, sometimes things just work out real quickly! OK, so F2 fuse was blown hence no power to the wire... fixed. Power now on. When bridging the wire from the bumper coloured wire, plugged into the pillar light plug, started working as I initially thought it would. So why didnt it before, dont really know, unless fuse related??

Anyway, all working great. A little tip about the damn globe holder on the bumper. When I took it off, it was relatively easy, when trying to put it back it was almost impossible. In the end I figured out that the two smaller locator pins in the back, not the two bigger ones that fit into the slots, where pinching due to tight fit. Using a stanly knife, I cut the tips into a 45 degree so it would slide into position, and it did with ease.

Thanks so much for your thoughts and posts Arthur, muchly appreciated as always.

Cheers,

[AK83]

....
Anyway, all working great. A little tip about the damn globe holder on the bumper. When I took it off, it was relatively easy, when trying to put it back it was almost impossible. .....

LOL!
I reckon we must have been cursing in sync at the time of trying to get that mongrel connector back in to the fitting!

I went out to check what I could at about 530-600 ish, kids came over, I had LEDs out and cables and multimeters out, and lengths of wire and all manner of crap all over the place.
(trying to measure the estimated power usage of those Canbus LED lights)

Kids were hungry, I was hanging for a smoko, hands filthy from all the muck and I lost it trying to line the globe holder correctly into it's slot in the light fitting! .. AHHHHH!

Had my smoko, kids (surely must have!!)heard a fresh set of expletives they probably never knew existed, ash falling onto my face and up my nose, damned light fitting things just don't want to go back in.

Anyhow, I think I worked out that the canbus corrected(ie. built in resistor into the LED globe) uses about 3w or so .. current draw was about 0.2a.
But trying to check a lower powered LED globe, I must have shorted the multimeter and blew it's internal fuse.
So I got stuck with only the one LED reading. The low powered LED globes(ie. non canbus types) don't work in the bumper fittings.

Good to see it was as simple as a fuse issue.

[Cap]

Damn Arthur, what a saga... times like that i tend to walk away from the job and leave it for another day. I forgot to mention earlier, but i installed led lights into my caravan when running on 12v. Easy stick on types, comes with multiple leds (cant remember how many) and work really good. I think i got some left over so may try giving it a go at some stage when i feel like a challenge with wiring.

Give the light globe fitting the trim i mentioned if it makes sense, you can see where it catches on the prongs and trim with knife. Problem solved.

cheers,

[brookvale]

Just gone through something similar on my newly acquired 98 D1 in VIC. Seller had got RWC but after failing on a LH rear tail light out problem. They'd then patched two wires from right side tail to the left to make it work! then RWC issued.
After some testing I found the LH side sides/tail lights fuse was blown... removed patch wires and all was well. Not known was why fuse had blown...
Then found LH side reverse lamp not working. doh!
After much checking turns out the white plastic lamp holder (fits into the cluster unit in the pillar) was knackered and would not make contact with the cluster frame connectors.
Luckily I had a spare from a previous dismantle job.

LEDs : Why bother? original style lamps are adequate enough. and cheap as... if you have problems with wiring and lamp holders, sticking in LEDs won't fix the underlying issues :)
Neil

[AK83]

....

LEDs : Why bother? ....

I got no worries about incandescent bulbs for tail/brake/fog/indicator, but I had two brake lights blow out in quick succession, and one indicator globe on the back.
The pathetic design of the D1's rear globe access got me up and running trying to find LEDs that work.
Finally got nearly all LEDs now, and only because of the stupid access design.
I can fit my hand in the recess but when I 'make a fist' to grip the bulb holder, there's no room for me to turn the bulb holder.
About the best I can try to do is get them off with a pair of long nose pliers, but damned hard to get the bulb holders back in and turn them by hand .. trying to line up the correct cutouts.

Strange thing is, brother's D2 had all three of his brake lights blown out a while back, and then just the other week both his reverse lights blown.
I'm 99.9% confident that it's not an electrical issue, just that they blow out, one by one sooner rather than later.

D2 is so much easier to replace globes tho.

[brookvale]

I got no worries about incandescent bulbs for tail/brake/fog/indicator, but I had two brake lights blow out in quick succession, and one indicator globe on the back.
The pathetic design of the D1's rear globe access got me up and running trying to find LEDs that work.
Finally got nearly all LEDs now, and only because of the stupid access design.
I can fit my hand in the recess but when I 'make a fist' to grip the bulb holder, there's no room for me to turn the bulb holder.
About the best I can try to do is get them off with a pair of long nose pliers, but damned hard to get the bulb holders back in and turn them by hand .. trying to line up the correct cutouts.

Strange thing is, brother's D2 had all three of his brake lights blown out a while back, and then just the other week both his reverse lights blown.
I'm 99.9% confident that it's not an electrical issue, just that they blow out, one by one sooner rather than later.

D2 is so much easier to replace globes tho.

So, how did you get round those nasty bulb holders? Had the same issues and a tab breaking off jamming one holder in the unit - ended up taking the whole thing out - painful!
or is it that LEDs (should) last longer?
Neil

[AK83]

All of my bulb holders are a bit sticky(bar one!) they all need a bit of force to remove/refit. And the lack of room to move in there, means my only option to change tail/brake is to remove the assembly .. another painful job for the masochists among us!

Technically LED should last longer, but as with all things random and serendipitous ... you can have an incandescent bulb last you 20+ years .. and an LED can burn itself out in a matter of days!
(or if you're like me and like to power them up a little .. a second or two!)
I had one of my front parkers(in headlamp) T10 LEDs kind'a/sort'a half die. The T10's I got are 4 chip types, and one of the chips was flickering(the other 3 were fine).
So on my LHF corner I had a bit of a disco going on in my Disco... as the LED flickered to the beat of the Tdi [biggrin]

But, yes... as implied.
LEDs generally last a lot longer. And going for a well known, reputable brand will hopefully fulfil that prophecy .... at least on the tail/brake bulbs(once I sort out the non working cruise control too tho).

Another reason to get LEDs would be their brightness vs their power usage.
For tail and brake, you don't want them too bright either ... and why I chose to use the Philips tail/brake rather than the too bright brightlightauto bulbs.

You may want them a bit brighter on the rear fog bulbs .. than the usual 21W globe they use, and more importantly a nicer much brighter reverse bulb, white and ckear .. almost negates the value of a add-on LED reverse light.

I reckon the three bulbs below the tail/brake are OK-ish in terms of access for removal /refitment on the D1.
If you reverse at night on a regular basis, I reckon at the least do yourself a favour and do the reverse bulbs with the biggest brightest LEDs you can fit.
They don't need canbus, so just about any dirty/cheapo/no-name-brand LED should work in the reverse.
I fitted some $1-2, 27chip LEDs non canbus globe into the spots that don't need canbus(ie. reverse and fogs).