Discovery 3 2.7lt TDV6 Timing belt change WARNING

[DazzaTD5]

I'm posting this at the risk of stepping close to a fine line, but have worded it in such a way that no liability should fall on me or AULRO, if a mod feels this is not the case, feel free to alter wording accordingly.

*Not all repairers/mechanics upgrade the oil pump when doing a timing belt change.
*Not all repairers/mechanics advise owners about upgrading the oil pump while doing a timing belt change.
*I'd say its widely known by just about every independent Land Rover repairer that the oil pump needs to be changed out for the upgraded oil pump.

*A Land Rover repairer in Perth that may have two workshops both north and south of the river (NOT an independent Land Rover repairer) is not doing the upgraded oil pump and stating to owners that they inspect the oil pump for cracks.
*I have had two Discovery 3 TDV6 models that have had their timing belts recently changed and both had oil pump housing failures shortly afterwards.
*I have had one that I got to before the housing broke away.

IMHO (in reference to this one repairer)
*The mechanics doing the repair job are not familiar with the Land Rover model and have no idea about the upgrade.
*The mechanics supervisors either arent aware of the upgrade (hard to believe) and or are not telling the mechanic doing the work.
*They are fully aware of the upgrade and on strip down see it needs replacing but dont have an oil pump in stock, there for dont do the upgrade as they dont want the vehicle sitting around in the workshop.
*The new timing belt tensioner is being over torqued on installation to the original weak oil pump housing.

*I have no doubt there may well be other repair shops out there (Australia wide) that also dont upgrade the oil pump housing.
*All the above is my personal opinion and hearsay as I did not see these vehicles at the particular repairer and have only the owners word that this was the case.

[101RRS]

In my experience nothing new there - I know nothing of the establishments you allude to but your comments reflect the opinions of many operators - some good some bad - this where the knowledge on forums comes into play.

Not helped of course by LR not doing a recall and quietly slotting a new oil pump under the same part number as the old part.

The other thing many operators do is charge you the LR price for a new oil pump (up around $400) but fit the exact same oil pump bought from Ford for about $170 retail (cheaper trade).

Garry

[shanegtr]

Not helped of course by LR not doing a recall and quietly slotting a new oil pump under the same part number as the old part.

Well something like this would very rarely be a recall as its not really a safety issue and that's what recalls are mainly used for. An upgrade like this I'd expect it more to be a service bulletin. Secondly nearly every manufacturer around will upgrade parts - some will supersede the part to a new number some simply upgrade and the number stays the same. I don't think LR have handled this issue any differently to what any other manufacturer would likely do

[PerthDisco]

Are you saying you’ve got two destroyed engines?

When mine was done 3 years ago at an Indy repairer very nearby to the main WA dealer l had to force him to also update my oil pump housing. He claimed to have never ever heard of the problem or ever heard through his extensive network of this problem.

The mechanic showed me the old housing and commented how different and appreciably beefier the new one was. He did say (at the time) that the business owner was not going to mandate this for future jobs at which time they were doing a lot of pre MY08 2.7D timing belts.

That was 3 years ago so things might have changed. I have changed repairer.

Moral of the story is forums like this give those interest the information to demand such things and never ever ever believe that that the repairer (mostly) is as interested as you in your car. This logically reflects most owners lack of interest so fair enough.

Eventually you can find the good guys with the same interest.

[DiscoJeffster]

Moral of the story is forums like this give those interest the information to demand such things and never ever ever believe that that the repairer (mostly) is as interested as you in your car.

Unfortunately it can also be a negative. Forums can perpetuate things not necessarily based in fact. Correlation is not causation [emoji6] In general though, this forum and others are a great resource for those who care to take a proactive position on their vehicles.

[PerthDisco]

Unfortunately it can also be a negative. Forums can perpetuate things not necessarily based in fact. Correlation is not causation [emoji6] In general though, this forum and others are a great resource for those who care to take a proactive position on their vehicles.

Yes, the timing belt issue was evidenced based, well documented here and Disco3UK and with a part update on newer models after MY08. This made it a no brainer.

The brake switch problem is another one where a bit of knowledge shared here makes this common issue simple and cheap to fix.

[BradC]

When I had the Antichrist done at a independent in Perth I asked them about the oil pump and got "we've never replaced one proactively and we've never had one fail but then we don't over torque the fasteners when we do the job". They were quite adamant about the torques on the bolts in the oil pump housing being extremely specific.

I had to have the pump replaced for another reason so I had them put the upgraded one in anyway.

I also asked them about snapped cranks and was told it was not really to do with oil viscosity, but was exacerbated by lax maintenance, and at the end of the day was that Landrover had a large batch of cranks that were improperly hardened.

I'm not worried about losing the timing belt, but every time I roll out the driveway I worry about the rest of the car falling to bits under me.

[DiscoJeffster]

I also asked them about snapped cranks and was told it was not really to do with oil viscosity, but was exacerbated by lax maintenance, and at the end of the day was that Landrover had a large batch of cranks that were improperly hardened.


Absolute BS about the batch of cranks. The issue has persisted through all years and has now been seen on the D5 as well. Not saying it’s the same exact cause leading to crank failure, but it shouldn’t be that difficult to keep a crank turning.
As for lax maintenance - it’s happened to people who’ve had full service history and some who’ve gone above and beyond. I agree though - every trip I worry if I’m next.

[Tins]

this where the knowledge on forums comes into play.



Garry

Shout that out, Garry. People knock forums. I, for one, don't have a D3, so this particular issue isn't important to me, but one day it might be. However, without this forum I would have had no idea about the TD5 oil pump bolt, which is a show stopper..

More power to AULRO, and any other forum that has proper ideals.

[ATH]

"people knock forums" I like that. Had a mate bought a Puma 110 not long after they came out and would never bother looking here or at other forums for info. about anything as according to him they had too many disgruntled people airing past problems etc etc.
Did many fault free miles in it with just him and his wife but after refuelling at Balladonia during one trip had no drive and had to be trucked back to Perth. It appears I got the blame as he's never contacted me since as I inadvertently told him it was a known problem caused by the output shaft splines wearing excessively!
Maybe he's gone back to Nissan as he had one that he kept going until it fell apart from rust but otherwise it was "fault free"......
AlanH.

PS. About the repairer close to the main stealer..... if it's the bloke I'm thinking of, I wouldn't go near him as he bashed the nut holding the fan unit on our 300Tdi the wrong way to remove it with a chisel...... left hand thread matey, that won't work. :)
But did replace it under threat of legal action and publication.

[BradC]

Absolute BS about the batch of cranks. The issue has persisted through all years and has now been seen on the D5 as well. Not saying it’s the same exact cause leading to crank failure, but it shouldn’t be that difficult to keep a crank turning.
As for lax maintenance - it’s happened to people who’ve had full service history and some who’ve gone above and beyond. I agree though - every trip I worry if I’m next.

Does anyone know what ford did differently to prevent this happening on the territory?

[DiscoJeffster]

Does anyone know what ford did differently to prevent this happening on the territory?

As you know this engine is used in many vehicles and the issue doesn’t occur. Much conjecture about how the engine is packaged in the LR that might cause issue but nothing definite.

[DazzaTD5]

Does anyone know what ford did differently to prevent this happening on the territory?

You may well find...
*Upgrades or faults are progressively done on an engine series.
*The engine used in the Ford Territory are like 2014 onwards.
*Crankshaft failures, oil pump housings, incorrect big end assembly etc etc are up to about 2011.
*Although keep in mind... its early days for a 2014 engine in any vehicle, but hope all the faults have been ironed out.

*Also note (this is my guess), the territory engine, discovery engine etc etc are all built on the same assembly line at the same engine factory, as in just like car models (Jag, Range Rover on same assembly line) each likely being labeled "ford aust, territory" "Land rover" etc etc. This is based on the last "Territory" engine I used had 30K on it and the coolant line at the back of the engine had a Land Rover part number and a Land Rover logo on them (they clearly were part of the original engine as supplied to me).

*Also note V6 engines in general have ALWAYS been prone to crankshaft breakage (when compared to a straight six or v8) due to the common split crankshaft design from as early back as the 90's.

[PerthDisco]

And same problem is popping up on the ‘new and improved’ 3.0 version.

Regarding the Indy close to the dealer I know many happy customers who just want to avoid the dealer and take no mechanical interest in their car. You just have to accept your input will not be appreciated.

Back to the OP there can’t be many pre MY09 2.7Ds that have not yet had their timing belt done. This makes it a game of Russian Roulette if buying one of these second hand and worth checking if the original oil pump housing is still on. Not sure how easy it is to see the part without some disassembly?

[101RRS]

Does anyone know what ford did differently to prevent this happening on the territory?

Doesn't it? - I have heard of a few spun bearings so I assume broken cranks in Territories.

The reality is that broken cranks are pretty rare compared to the number of cars built - I assume there are far more Disco 2.7s and 3.0s around the world than there is the few Territories in Aust so broken cranks in Discos are more obvious that broken cranks in Territories.

Garry

[justinc]

100% its an issue.

i only replace timing belts on the early ones if the owner wants to replace the pump. No pump no job as far as i am concerned.

Jc