Never EVER am I going to a dealer again!!!

[Markf]

What a saga....
Started out with rising oil level which was diagnosed as a cracked head. The car was running perfectly but had the fuel in oil issue.
Ordered and received an AMC head from Turner Engineering. Barrow load of cash #1.

Had dealer fit the new head. Barrow load of cash #2.

Oil level still rising, lumpy idle and well down on power. This was diagnosed as two leaking O-rings. Fixed (???) at zero cost.
Service manager made the comment that the "technician" who did the work didn't realise that the injector rockers needed to be re-adjusted after refitting the rocker shaft.

Oil level still rising. Power better but not as good as it was pre head change and idle still lumpy at start. It also sounded like a bit of hydraulicing going on too. . Diagnosed as a dribbling injector after they (dealer) faffed around for two days. They couldn't say how many injectors were dribbling as they don't have a bore scope that can get down the injector hole. SAY WHAT... I would've thought that'd be a standard bit of kit in a workshop but apparently not. My opinion is that one or more injectors were probably wrecked by the aforementioned "technician".

Got a set of used injectors from a low mileage engine. Barrow load of cash #3.

Had dealer install injectors. They tried to charge another barrow load of cash. I told them that if the job had been done right in the first place I wouldn't be standing there arguing about a bill. No charge.

Get halfway home and the car dies. Wouldn't idle. Can't restart. Nothing.
Plugged in trusty Nanocom and no faults logged. Tried a purge cycle (foot flat to the floor 5 times) and still nothing.

Called dealer (at around 6.00pm) and luckily there was still someone there. They came out with a Disco Sport and put my car on a flat top and back to the dealers it goes.

I don't care what's wrong or how much it costs to fix I'm NOT paying...

The problem is that my wife and I are heading off on Friday to Hamilton Downs Youth Camp (near Alice Springs) for a working holiday. Seeing as I can't trust the car due to the standard of work that the dealer does I'm going to have to buy some gold plated, tow anywhere roadside assist probably for another barrow load of cash.

Isn't it fun being retired and on a limited fixed income....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I think the trouble with dealers is that all LR D2 trained mechs have moved on to their own business or have become Qty surveyors----
I would think even the D3 owners are soon to find this out...

[scarry]

I think the trouble with dealers is that all LR D2 trained mechs have moved on to their own business or have become Qty surveyors----
I would think even the D3 owners are soon to find this out...

They seem hopeless at sorting out D4's as well,as a number of people on here have found out the hard way.

I also know from a very good source the local Dealer near here has 5 newish vehicles they can't sort,and the owners won't give back their loan cars,as they don't want their own vehicles back.

After being burnt badly 15yrs ago,i won't go near them,apart for warranty work.

[Jazzman]

Lesson learned. There are rule on the forum about dissing specific people which i guess is fair. However Land Rover dealers are notorious for being terrible at their job. I can speak from experience, on many occasions.

If I was looking to purchase a second hand Land Rover and one happened to have only ever been dealer serviced, i'd look for another. Especially if the car was located in Gippsland...

[rangieman]

Wow that is disgusting :bat:

[Markf]

I think the trouble with dealers is that all LR D2 trained mechs have moved on to their own business or have become Qty surveyors----
I would think even the D3 owners are soon to find this out...

Sad to say this isn't limited to LR dealers. A couple of years ago a Subaru dealer tried to sting us for ~$7,000 for a crank position sensor. Started out replacing injectors and then proceeded to turbo, etc. After consumer affairs action it ended up costing us for a simple replacement of the CPS - less than $200 parts and labour done by an independent diesel specialist who knew what they were doing.
Step son's early Navara diesel. Quoted about a bazillion bucks for injector pump, yada, yada. Erase learnt data and a long drive and all is well. Less than $90 bucks.

It seems that a lot of older cars suffer from this problem.

[Roverlord off road spares]

Lesson learned. There are rule on the forum about dissing specific people which i guess is fair. However Land Rover dealers are notorious for being terrible at their job. I can speak from experience, on many occasions.

If I was looking to purchase a second hand Land Rover and one happened to have only ever been dealer serviced, i'd look for another. Especially if the car was located in Gippsland...

Hmm wonder if its that same dealership that worked on yours when your mum had it.

[101RRS]

Sorry to hear your pain but why would you take such an old car (yes D2 is now old [bigsad]) to a dealer. They will have no experience with your model these days.

[rangieman]

Sorry to hear your pain but why would you take such an old car (yes D2 is now old [bigsad]) to a dealer. They will have no experience with your model these days.
Is a mechanic a mechanic [bighmmm]
Honestly any intelligent mechanic could do that job and if they are unfamiliar to the car and job there is what we all revert to is google these days [wink11]
I have worked all manner of things and if im not sure on something good ol google helps .
Yes it is a old car car compared to the space crafts of today but a motor is a motor it is only the sequence of work and managment technology that has changed [wink11]

[donh54]

Is a mechanic a mechanic [bighmmm]
Honestly any intelligent mechanic could do that job and if they are unfamiliar to the car and job there is what we all revert to is google these days [wink11]
I have worked all manner of things and if im not sure on something good ol google helps .
Yes it is a old car car compared to the space crafts of today but a motor is a motor it is only the sequence of work and managment technology that has changed [wink11]

The problem is that a large percentage of a mechanics trade training these days is computer-based "tick and flick" stuff. All the training providers are interested in is bodies through the door to get the training fees. When I was working at TAFE, I used to see the teachers virtually tearing their hair out at the types they had to pass as "competent" [bawl]

[strangy]

Barrow loads of cash aside.
If you get to Hamilton Downs, Alice Springs has a very good LR dealer with good TD5 knowledge.
...and, I have a Nanocom and some knowledge/ability to assist /share if you get stuck.

[101RRS]

Is a mechanic a mechanic [bighmmm]


Well no, at a dealer they are technicians, hence the outrageous hourly labour rate to operate the diagnostic machine - technicians wouldn't want to get their hands greasy. [thumbsupbig]

[rangieman]

Well no, at a dealer they are technicians, hence the outrageous hourly labour rate to operate the diagnostic machine - technicians wouldn't want to get their hands greasy. [thumbsupbig]
Technician is the new feel good word for mechanic ffs[wink11]
And these technicians don`t get a exorbitant wage`s as did mechanics of old it is only the dealer that charges handsomely [bighmmm].
All this has been detailed why they charge so much in the past [bigwhistle]

Yes the old diagnoses has fallen by the way side and yes they rely on computer diagnoses but a engine is still basically still as they have been for over a decade [thumbsupbig]

[Graeme]

My opinion is that one or more injectors were probably wrecked by the aforementioned "technician".I wonder if the person knew that a TD5 head can't be placed face down on a flat surface with injectors in-situ because the injector tips protrude just enough to be damaged. A mechanic should have checked first anyway.

[rangieman]

I wonder if the person knew that a TD5 head can't be placed face down on a flat surface with injectors in-situ because the injector tips protrude just enough to be damaged. A mechanic should have checked first anyway.
That could be the difference between a technician and a mechanic or a apprentice :Rolling:
Sometimes the obvious is not so obvious who know`s :wallbash:.
This whole scenario is probably due to inexperienced underpaid apprentice what ever the insert name here fandangled feel good appropriate trainee person:soapbox:

[andeck]

Dealers. 🤯

We bought a little Vw polo in 2015. What has gone wrong with their services you ask?
Spilt oil all over engine.
Forgot to put service book back in (extra drive for me)
Next time forgot to fill out service book (extra drive for me)
Forgot to fill out service book again (extra drive for me)
Asked if I wanted it washed, yes please. Pick up... not washed!!
Didn’t rotate tyres (on condition at extra cost I find out later ) .... tyres scalloped in 50000 km and need replacing.
Etc etc
That is from four services only. I went back for the last two times as I wanted them to fix a noise under warranty that they “can’t hear, it’s just normal tyre noise’.

Conclusion, good call Markf!!

[trout1105]

WOW, I feel sorry for you guys But Not all dealerships are crap.
I am fortunate enough to live just outside Geraldton here in WA where we have a Top Notch Landrover workshop that I have nothing but praise for, They are fast, efficient and they don't charge like a wounded bull either [thumbsupbig]

[Grumbles]

Sad to say this isn't limited to LR dealers. A couple of years ago a Subaru dealer tried to sting us for ~$7,000 for a crank position sensor.

I was waiting to pick up my Jeep whilst it was being serviced at a multi franchised dealership and watched a very distraught travelling retired couple remonstrating with the service adviser over the replacement cost of an Audi fuel pump. The car was just out of warranty and Audi wouldn't help with the cost - no good will - the pump was $12G.

[scarry]

WOW, I feel sorry for you guys But Not all dealerships are crap.
I am fortunate enough to live just outside Geraldton here in WA where we have a Top Notch Landrover workshop that I have nothing but praise for, They are fast, efficient and they don't charge like a wounded bull either [thumbsupbig]

Our work vans have gone to the local Toyota dealer for every service over the last 10 yrs or so,never had an issue.

And their labour rate is around 60% of the local LR stealers rate.

[ozscott]

I was waiting to pick up my Jeep whilst it was being serviced at a multi franchised dealership and watched a very distraught travelling retired couple remonstrating with the service adviser over the replacement cost of an Audi fuel pump. The car was just out of warranty and Audi wouldn't help with the cost - no good will - the pump was $12G.But don't you know...its a great brand. German engineering. Cheers

[andeck]

But don't you know...its a great brand. German engineering. Cheers

And they don’t lie about things!


Ze varranty is expired, ze pump WILL cost 12 grand.

[Bigbjorn]

I was waiting to pick up my Jeep whilst it was being serviced at a multi franchised dealership and watched a very distraught travelling retired couple remonstrating with the service adviser over the replacement cost of an Audi fuel pump. The car was just out of warranty and Audi wouldn't help with the cost - no good will - the pump was $12G.

I know personally at least three private (non-dealer) mechanical service and repair shops that will not book in an Audi. Why? They are a "PIA", "trouble on wheels", "don't need the aggro", "prefer an easier life without fighting customers over the account". These shops do not book in Ford/Mazda Ranger late models, Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, some Volvo and Benz models, most Chinese and some Korean. One guy has a framed A4 list on the counter at reception listing the makes and models they do not work on. I asked him about the all electronic singing and dancing Discos and RR's. He says they are not TOO bad but see your bank manager first.

[Homestar]

Our work vans have gone to the local Toyota dealer for every service over the last 10 yrs or so,never had an issue.

And their labour rate is around 60% of the local LR stealers rate.

The Toyota dealers I take my work Hilux to charge only $5 less an hour than the Melbourne LR dealers. Thankfully it's not my vehicle and I don't have to pay...

[trout1105]

The Toyota dealership here charges much more for labour than the LR workshop and it takes weeks to get anything booked in, They would be my very last choice to get anything done on the wife's Hilux.

[Markf]

Get halfway home and the car dies. Wouldn't idle. Can't restart. Nothing.
Plugged in trusty Nanocom and no faults logged. Tried a purge cycle (foot flat to the floor 5 times) and still nothing.



A little bit of an update. This was a simple head replacement that was done on 15&16 March and it's now 19 Apr.
After the sudden failure to proceed on 17 Apr they have spent two days faffing around and got precisely nowhere.
Apparently they've opened the ECU and found it clean, They've cleaned the red plug which was already pretty clean. They've called me and told me that the injectors were no good. (What all 5 of them!!!) They've called me and told me that they're replacing the fuel pump as it's not delivering the correct pressure.
Then they called me tonight at around 6.00pm and told me that the car was on a test drive and that it's OK and I should hot foot it over to the dealer to pick it up. Got about 5 minutes up the road and got a call telling me don't bother - it's just conked out again.
Now I'm left with no car to head of to the NT in despite them being told repeatedly that me having the car back on or before 19 Apr is not negotiable.

[Markf]

I think the trouble with dealers is that all LR D2 trained mechs have moved on to their own business or have become Qty surveyors----


They probably have but a head change with a workshop manual and the correct tools is a simple affair.
I would've done it myself but have mobility issues and no space here.

[Markf]

Sorry to hear your pain but why would you take such an old car (yes D2 is now old [bigsad]) to a dealer. They will have no experience with your model these days.

Yes, I know a D2 is old. I consider the D2 being the last of the "simple" Land Rovers and thus far it's demonstrated that. Easy to look after and service and as reliable as a clock.

When I was looking for a 300 Tdi D1 or a D2 Td5 I was searching for a car that had been well looked after, was of reasonable mileage (<400k km) and had a great service record. The car I got fitted the bill and the previous owner was very honest. He told me the price was kept as low as possible as he suspected that the gearbox was on the way out due to the car being used to tow horse floats (full and empty) for its whole life. Factoring in the cost of a gearbox and clutch it was on a par with another that I was looking at in QLD.

So, yes it's old and it's a LOT simpler than a D3 (which I briefly considered).

[Markf]

Barrow loads of cash aside.
If you get to Hamilton Downs, Alice Springs has a very good LR dealer with good TD5 knowledge.
...and, I have a Nanocom and some knowledge/ability to assist /share if you get stuck.

I already have a Nanocom thankfully[bigsmile1]

When we get to Hamilton Downs I'm going to organise the aforementioned LR dealer in Alice to give it a good going over.[bigsmile1]

[Graeme]

Failing crankshaft position sensors often work when cold but fail when hot. The sensor's output can be checked while cranking using diagnostics and a spray with cold water can make a hot failed one work for a short while as a rudimentary roadside test.

[scarry]

The Toyota dealers I take my work Hilux to charge only $5 less an hour than the Melbourne LR dealers. Thankfully it's not my vehicle and I don't have to pay...


Actual rates are $220/hr for LR

Toyota went up last week to $143/hr for retail customers,we do get it slightly cheaper as we have a fleet rate,as your company probably has.

And in our game,if we get $95/hr we are doing well...

FWIW,my LR Indi charges $130/hr and does an excellent job

I recon the dealers have different rates depending on location.

And quality of workmanship is just luck of the draw,depends how good the techs are.

The LR dealer Tombie uses seems to be the best around,with prices and workmanship.

[DazzaTD5]

In my mouthy opinion and nothing more...

*The amount of horrific stuff ups I see coming from *cough* some workshops has me speechless.
*And its not "old" Land Rovers, its also new expensive ones.
*Any long term member of AULRO really in general should know better than to risk taking a Land Rover to places that really dont know the vehicle that well (or get yourself a good tool set and keep your AULRO sub up!).
I'm selling an old electric cement mixer at the moment, doesnt mean I know anything about mixing cement. [tonguewink]
*But a Land Rover actually isnt a space ship and I've yet to see any repair that a reasonably half witted person couldnt achieve.
*Dealers in general dont pay very well, you pay peanuts and bananas and you only get species from the jungle. (Personal opinion, maybe I was really crap and thus got paid crap).

*BUT alas I myself am not perfect, my biggest issue (ok ok one of them) I simply cant get some jobs out on a timely manner. Small jobs often get passed up as I cant fit them in anywhere. Although I have brought my dad out of retirement for 2 days a week to do such jobs as changing out pesky window regulators.

[bblaze]

Its not so much if a mechanic has made a sstuff up (every body does sometimes), its how its handled and fixed, I know one indy here who offered to drive 400 odd km to rectify a front seal for me as he thought I was getting on the ferry the next day,
cheers
blaze

[Tins]

I was waiting to pick up my Jeep whilst it was being serviced at a multi franchised dealership and watched a very distraught travelling retired couple remonstrating with the service adviser over the replacement cost of an Audi fuel pump. The car was just out of warranty and Audi wouldn't help with the cost - no good will - the pump was $12G.

They'd have a pretty good case to take to CAV. CAV look upon such a thing as having an "implied warranty". A fuel pump that failed at that point could be deemed as not fit for purpose. In any case, contact from CAV tends to focus attention.

[Tins]

I
*Dealers in general dont pay very well, you pay peanuts and bananas and you only get species from the jungle. (Personal opinion, maybe I was really crap and thus got paid crap).



This is a very good point. What is often overlooked in debates around Dealerships is that very little of their actual profit comes from selling cars. Sure, the showroom is all nice and shiny etc, but by the time they have paid the rent, the floorplan for all the cars, the sales commissions, the insurances and all the other overheads there isn't a great deal of money in car sales. Thus, it falls upon the workshop and spare parts departments to bring in the wages. If a dealership charges $220 an hour, how much of that do you think goes the the bloke in the fancy logoed overalls?

Here's another thing. I think I have posted this elsewhere, but for a time I worked as a spare parts bloke at a Datsun dealership. So, I had my own copies of the job cards so I could dig up the parts needed. On a couple of occasions I counted up the total hours that could be booked to customer's cars on a given day ( this doesn't include problems, or breakdowns ) and divided by the number of mechs in the workshop. The conclusion? It was impossible for all that work to be done, by a factor of about 5, in that day, going by the hours allowed for each job.
Ok, allow that some mechs were fast. Also, allow that some items were "overlooked". The thing is, the customer was getting charged for the hours allowed, not the actual hours the car was actually worked on. I don't imagine anything has changed.

[scarry]

This is a very good point. What is often overlooked in debates around Dealerships is that very little of their actual profit comes from selling cars. Sure, the showroom is all nice and shiny etc, but by the time they have paid the rent, the floorplan for all the cars, the sales commissions, the insurances and all the other overheads there isn't a great deal of money in car sales. Thus, it falls upon the workshop and spare parts departments to bring in the wages. If a dealership charges $220 an hour, how much of that do you think goes the the bloke in the fancy logoed overalls?

Here's another thing. I think I have posted this elsewhere, but for a time I worked as a spare parts bloke at a Datsun dealership. So, I had my own copies of the job cards so I could dig up the parts needed. On a couple of occasions I counted up the total hours that could be booked to customer's cars on a given day ( this doesn't include problems, or breakdowns ) and divided by the number of mechs in the workshop. The conclusion? It was impossible for all that work to be done, by a factor of about 5, in that day, going by the hours allowed for each job.
Ok, allow that some mechs were fast. Also, allow that some items were "overlooked". The thing is, the customer was getting charged for the hours allowed, not the actual hours the car was actually worked on. I don't imagine anything has changed.

Your forgetting one thing,many of those 'mechanics' are actually apprentices,getting paid somewhere less than $25/hr.

And with very limited ability,and virtually no experience.

But the customer is getting charged full rates.

It is a blatant rip off,and every dealer does it.Customers are paying for something they are not getting,which is probably against the law.

Sure,we need more apprentices and more training,but,as it is in our industry,they should be charged out at a lower rate.

In our industry we would never get away with it,apprentices are charged out at lower rates.

[Tins]

Your forgetting one thing,many of those 'mechanics' are actually apprentices,getting paid somewhere less than $25/hr.

And with very limited ability,and virtually no experience.



Quite correct. About 60% were apprenticed, but a number of those were in their last year. Thing is, they weren't getting the supervision that true apprenticeship means, as the ratio of qualified to unqualified means that it would have been impossible, and the REAL qualified supervisor, the Service Manager, simply didn't have time, as he was too busy chasing budgets.

[discomatt69]

My observations on 2 occasions, first was at a Toyota dealer with a company supplied work van, I kept an eye on what was going on through the workshop doorway because I was waiting for the car. Service was done by a young apprentice and spent about 45 minutes working on the car, oil, filters, check brakes shake exhaust. Car was parked up at the side of the workshop for another 40 minutes with no one touching it. Another older tech then spent 10 minutes plugging in the laptop and checking for faults. A full 2 hours was charged for...Yep cheaper hourly rate than LR but...

Second, there is mechanics and there is mechanics. I had a 4.6 installed into a D1, ran like crap and my mechanic spent hours and couldn't fix it and cost me a fortune, another workshop had it sorted in less than a day. Same mechanic replaced the front seal behind the harmonic balancer about 5 times and it always leaked, the last time he said bad luck this is the last time I am doing it. Next mechanic did it once and it hasn't leaked in the last 4 years.

[3toes]

This is a very good point. What is often overlooked in debates around Dealerships is that very little of their actual profit comes from selling cars. Sure, the showroom is all nice and shiny etc, but by the time they have paid the rent, the floorplan for all the cars, the sales commissions, the insurances and all the other overheads there isn't a great deal of money in car sales. Thus, it falls upon the workshop and spare parts departments to bring in the wages. If a dealership charges $220 an hour, how much of that do you think goes the the bloke in the fancy logoed overalls?.

This has been the business model for the last 30 odd years that I have been involved. The new cars make a loss used should break even or perhaps a small profit with finance and other add ons sales being the profit generator.

Often the other add ins have a bigger combined profit than the finance. The aftersales then make the profit for the dealership. You can use new car sales to forecast profit based on the percentage of cars that will come back for service.

Keeping these customers happy is the key to profit in the dealership

Selling a fixed price service plan is the carrot to increase the uptake in the service area who can then sell you what is not covered by the service plan.

All manufactures except Toyota and Honda make their profits out of the finance arm with the manufacture img being a loss leader for finance sales

[Tins]

Second, there is mechanics and there is mechanics. I had a 4.6 installed into a D1, ran like crap and my mechanic spent hours and couldn't fix it and cost me a fortune, another workshop had it sorted in less than a day. Same mechanic replaced the front seal behind the harmonic balancer about 5 times and it always leaked, the last time he said bad luck this is the last time I am doing it. Next mechanic did it once and it hasn't leaked in the last 4 years.

On this: two things. 1, the engine conversion would throw most "technicians", although, having said that I have no idea how much of a "conversion" it actually is. 2, often in workshops I would find that a 'particular' job would be given to a 'particular' person, as they "always did them and had no problems". Well, of course they had no problems, because they "always did them". One wonders, how does someone else learn how to do them?

These days, we have "specialists", in other words people who choose NOT to do certain things. The days of a well rounded mechanic seem to be over.

[scarry]

On this: two things. 1, the engine conversion would throw most "technicians", although, having said that I have no idea how much of a "conversion" it actually is. 2, often in workshops I would find that a 'particular' job would be given to a 'particular' person, as they "always did them and had no problems". Well, of course they had no problems, because they "always did them". One wonders, how does someone else learn how to do them?

These days, we have "specialists", in other words people who choose NOT to do certain things. The days of a well rounded mechanic seem to be over.

They are around,but many, if not all, of them work for themselves.

I know two around in this area.Both have trained up their sons who work with them.

One of the fathers has over 60 yrs of experience in diesels.They have done some work for us,on our work vehicles,excellent.

[Tombie]

Was easy to be well rounded when there was like 4 types of Carby, 2 brands of fuel pump. And points were points.

Now there’s 500+ ECUs
Multiple brands of injection
Endless configurations and control systems

If you can be an all-rounder in that environment you’re doing very well (and you have about $750,000 in diagnostic equipment and tools!)

[martnH]

Is there a extend warranty /insurance we can purchase?

By the looks of it, any car problem can be solved with money....

[Tombie]

Is there a extend warranty /insurance we can purchase?

By the looks of it, any car problem can be solved with money....

Often very expensive and don’t cover a lot!

Wow you lot are worry warts! I had factory warranty and that was it... couple of “good faith” dealer fixes done. For the last 4 years nothing but servicing.

Effective repairs are done by suitably educated individuals - find one if you’re not will to tackle it yourself.

[scarry]

My observations on 2 occasions, first was at a Toyota dealer with a company supplied work van, I kept an eye on what was going on through the workshop doorway because I was waiting for the car. Service was done by a young apprentice and spent about 45 minutes working on the car, oil, filters, check brakes shake exhaust. Car was parked up at the side of the workshop for another 40 minutes with no one touching it. Another older tech then spent 10 minutes plugging in the laptop and checking for faults. A full 2 hours was charged for...Yep cheaper hourly rate than LR but...
.

We could harp on forever....[bighmmm]

Just a couple of exact costings.

January 2018,the van i drive,toyota dealer,small service,oil,filter,other checks,$167.86

September 2012,LR dealer,D4 in for a couple of warranty things,i asked them to replace oil and filter as it had done 10000k's from new,$352.30.Yes,thats almost 6yrs ago,imagine the cost today.....would be well over $400.
Both vehicles take very similar quantity of oil,but D4 is slightly more expensive as is synthetic,but not over $200 more[bigsad]

Thats the last time i went to an LR dealer,and the first time since 2004.Always used my indi.

I have both invoices in front of me.

[discomatt69]

On this: two things. 1, the engine conversion would throw most "technicians", although, having said that I have no idea how much of a "conversion" it actually is. 2, often in workshops I would find that a 'particular' job would be given to a 'particular' person, as they "always did them and had no problems". Well, of course they had no problems, because they "always did them". One wonders, how does someone else learn how to do them?

These days, we have "specialists", in other words people who choose NOT to do certain things. The days of a well rounded mechanic seem to be over.

The conversion is very simple, exactly the same block with bigger pistons and different crank, its still got the 3.9 heads and injection. The mechanic did the conversion, ran his own shop and in "his" opinion was a good well rounded and well trained mechanic. He was also a LR "specialist". It just went to a LPG specialist to fix the running issue and another LR indi who I still use and am very happy with.
If you need to have a particular person to do a crank seal I would suggest the workshop needs some new staff...

[scarry]

Was easy to be well rounded when there was like 4 types of Carby, 2 brands of fuel pump. And points were points.

Now there’s 500+ ECUs
Multiple brands of injection
Endless configurations and control systems

If you can be an all-rounder in that environment you’re doing very well (and you have about $750,000 in diagnostic equipment and tools!)

But i think the general consensus is if the 'all rounder' stays away from european vehicles,you won't need anywhere near $750,000 worth of diagnostic equipment,and still have a good business,and make a good living,and a few are very good at what they do.They only work on the common garden variety mainstream Jap,Korean,Thailand made vehicles.
Thats what these guys seem to do.

Those that do European vehicle seem to specialise in one or maybe two brands at the most,and are often very good at what they do as well.

[Tins]

Was easy to be well rounded when there was like 4 types of Carby, 2 brands of fuel pump. And points were points.

Now there’s 500+ ECUs
Multiple brands of injection
Endless configurations and control systems

If you can be an all-rounder in that environment you’re doing very well (and you have about $750,000 in diagnostic equipment and tools!)

I actually agree. However, the discussion has largely been based around incompetence. If a workshop puts up a sign with a Green Oval on it, then someone driving a car with that same Green Oval should be able to confidently expect some expertise on their car from that workshop. If they were lucky, their problem would have been that one that "that person" specialised in. Otherwise they are in the lap of the Gods, unless their car is still one within the warranty period.

Ok, I know that it's ridiculous to expect a modern LR workshop to have someone still around that knows about swivel bearings on a Series IIA. However, the point is, swivel bearings on a IIA are not rocket science. Neither are carburettors. I would suggest that if the workshop in question does NOT have the expertise to diagnose and fix a problem, then they should say so, prior to accepting the work.

Not interested in self effacing excuses for ignorance.

[martnH]

Often very expensive and don’t cover a lot!

Wow you lot are worry warts! I had factory warranty and that was it... couple of “good faith” dealer fixes done. For the last 4 years nothing but servicing.

Effective repairs are done by suitably educated individuals - find one if you’re not will to tackle it yourself.

Haha. Yes things are not cheap at the JLR dealers. JLR dealer charges as much as a Mercedes one.

Well I am pretty confident as I can read and follow manuals. And willing to purchase proper tools before commencement of any repairs... But I do wonder if I myself overestimate my abilities..

Have to say some of the manuals are so well written....

So questions to all,,, what is the difference between guys like me and a experienced Mechanic? Given I follow manual 100%?

Is it that if the repair is straightforward and nothing goes wrong, then no much difference between my work and that of an expert? It is those screw-ups moments shows the experience?

Cheers
Martin

[martnH]

Do mechanic follow workshop manuals?
Do/should they know any more than that? And do anything outside the manual?

What books do they read?

Cheers

[V8Ian]

The key to mechanicing is diagnosis, a skill that many modern day mechanics rely on a computer to perform.

[djam1]

There is a big difference between a Mechanic and a Parts Fitter we seem to have many Parts Fitters in dealers who throw parts at the car at your expense to resolve issues.
Find a good independent and go there.

[Grumbles]

January 2018,the van i drive,toyota dealer,small service,oil,filter,other checks,$167.86

September 2012,LR dealer,D4 in for a couple of warranty things,i asked them to replace oil and filter as it had done 10000k's from new,$352.30.Yes,thats almost 6yrs ago,imagine the cost today.....would be well over $400.

I have two Suzuki Grand Vitaras with both being 2.4 petrol autos and under factory warranties. Services are six monthly on a major followed by a minor service type routine. Never is any service under $500 and often closer to $600.

[scarry]

I have two Suzuki Grand Vitaras with both being 2.4 petrol autos and under factory warranties. Services are six monthly on a major followed by a minor service type routine. Never is any service under $500 and often closer to $600.

Sounds way to much for a minor service,as you can see from my post about the minor service on the van.In fact the majors are never over $500.

But yours is a 4WD so there will be more costs for majors.

It will also depend exactly what they are doing on the minors.

[Tombie]

The biggest difference I see between many home enthusiasts and a tradie of good ilk is the ability to diagnose.

Sure the computer diagnostic helps, but it can show a symptom that then requires skills and experience to interpret. Diagnostics don’t always say “go to part xyz, it’s broken”

The other skill is the ability to know the “best practice” methods of doing a task... people like JC and Dazza have certain tasks they can do more effectively than blindly following the manual.

[Markf]

I actually agree. However, the discussion has largely been based around incompetence. If a workshop puts up a sign with a Green Oval on it, then someone driving a car with that same Green Oval should be able to confidently expect some expertise on their car from that workshop. If they were lucky, their problem would have been that one that "that person" specialised in. Otherwise they are in the lap of the Gods, unless their car is still one within the warranty period.

Ok, I know that it's ridiculous to expect a modern LR workshop to have someone still around that knows about swivel bearings on a Series IIA. However, the point is, swivel bearings on a IIA are not rocket science. Neither are carburettors. I would suggest that if the workshop in question does NOT have the expertise to diagnose and fix a problem, then they should say so, prior to accepting the work.

Not interested in self effacing excuses for ignorance.

Exactly. Ignorance can be overcome with proper training and supervision but incompetence is there for keeps. This level of incompetence is looking very likely to cost me a three month contract which will leave me open to breach of contract action should my employer so wish.

So far a simple head replacement has taken nearly six WEEKS, a set of injectors, at least 5 five sets of O-rings and copper washers and a fuel pump. Yesterday it was me who drove down to Melbourne to pick up yet another set of O-rings and washers so that they can replace them yet again tomorrow (Monday).

If they ask for payment they will be told (again) that if the job was done properly in the first place there would be no issue now and we'd be well on our way to our job.

[PhilipA]

I can beat those for rip offs.
I had a 1996 BMW M3.
I was buying some parts from a dealer and enquired about an inspection 1.
After several minutes on a PC, the "advisor" said $1100. I said Oh, does that include setting the tappets? No that is inspection 2. He had the chutzpah to tell me that it was an M3 so I should expect high service costs.
Inspection 1 is an oil change and inspection .
Another example was when I needed new brake pads. Asked dealer as there were none on ebay.
Tap tap tap $495 .
I then started to do some serious research and finally found out that M3 brakes were just 5 series brakes fitted to a 3 series. I bought a set ( from the OEM manufacturer ) from an ebay trader for AFAIR $160.
Regards Philip A

[scarry]

The biggest difference I see between many home enthusiasts and a tradie of good ilk is the ability to diagnose.

Sure the computer diagnostic helps, but it can show a symptom that then requires skills and experience to interpret. Diagnostics don’t always say “go to part xyz, it’s broken”

The other skill is the ability to know the “best practice” methods of doing a task... people like JC and Dazza have certain tasks they can do more effectively than blindly following the manual.

And the other major difference is these guys(JC,Dazza,there are a couple of others), also know which parts to use,not just part ABC because its cheap,the supplier said it 'should' be OK.

A lot of what these guys know is from experience,spending years working on,in this instance LR vehicles.
And obviously they are also very good at their work.

MR auto are the same,experts in their fields.

[DazzaTD5]

IMHO...

*Acording to a recent report by the ACCC over 60% of new car dealerships profit is from the service department.
*Yet new car dealerships service departments seem to crap up their relationship with the customer so often.
*A new car dealership service department will often have a lubey (boy/man/woman), which is simply someone that has been deemed competent enough to do the single task of changing oil on a car.
*Small to medium workshops may have one or two non trade qualified people on the floor assisting mechanics as needed. Large workshops, the trade assistants and others will out number the tradesman 2 to 1 (or whatever the max allowed is).

*One thing that peeves me off sometimes is this belief some have with regards to being charged a supposed rate tradesman rate and having an apprentice or trade assistant working on their pride and joy. The hourly rate is NOT a whatever person rate, its a workshop rate regardless of whom works on your vehicle.
*The workshop foreman/supervisor or team leader (if we get all group huggy etc) is what makes or breaks a workshop.
*Average trades people and others require good supervision to steer them in the right direction as needed.
*A workshop with good trades people need only a average supervisor to give them the next job or handing over parts.
*When you have a high turn over of staff, generally you are going to get neither a decent trades person or supervisor.
*There are also the nasty practice of trades people getting a bonus for job loading, the most common one was, it needs brakes doing.

*At the end of the day, if you are only being paid an average amount and its not your business, how much of a **** are you really going to give?
*There are exceptions to this and most end up leaving and working for themselves.
*For me it got to the point the only dickhead worth working for was myself [tonguewink]

[jonesfam]

I have a bit of a thing with both mechanics & (on the couple of occasions I could afford it) new car sale people.
They have a much better chance of getting my business if they drive/own my brand of car.
Jonesfam

[Tins]

So questions to all,,, what is the difference between guys like me and a experienced Mechanic? Given I follow manual 100%?



"Technicians" will be sent on courses to learn about aspects of new cars. By the time those same new cars arrive for anything other than normal servicing everything learned on a course will have been forgotten.

The really big difference between you and those guys will be a; they work on cars everyday, which builds a certain skillset, and b; which is much more important, equipment. They have their own workbench and usually hoist. They have access to the 'special tools' and the all important electronic diagnostic gear. The spare parts are OEM. They have access to the Service Bulletins, and they also have other people around them to help.

But I see you asked about "an experienced mechanic". Well, a mechanic will have done some form of apprenticeship. Then he or she will have worked in the trade for many years before being considered 'experienced'. These days, as Tombie rightly points out, they will all become specialists of some sort. I trained as a mechanic some 40 years ago, but you'd be an idiot to let me near a D4, and I'd be an idiot to try.

When it's your own car, and you are prepared to be methodical and follow a DECENT manual ( RAVE ), then I'd say that you are better off doing it yourself. You will know if you have done it properly, and you will get to know your car in a way most people can't even dream about.

There is only one thing missing from all of this, and that is diagnosis. It is very hard to learn to diagnose without experience. But, there are a bunch of people here to help you with that. Sometimes they are even right. Go figure.

(Edit: I posted this in response to an old page. Apologies, esp to Tombie who posted on diagnosis)

[Tins]

IMHO...

*Acording to a recent report by the ACCC over 60% of new car dealerships profit is from the service department.
*Yet new car dealerships service departments seem to crap up their relationship with the customer so often.
*A new car dealership service department will often have a lubey (boy/man/woman), which is simply someone that has been deemed competent enough to do the single task of changing oil on a car.
*Small to medium workshops may have one or two non trade qualified people on the floor assisting mechanics as needed. Large workshops, the trade assistants and others will out number the tradesman 2 to 1 (or whatever the max allowed is).

*One thing that peeves me off sometimes is this belief some have with regards to being charged a supposed rate tradesman rate and having an apprentice or trade assistant working on their pride and joy. The hourly rate is NOT a whatever person rate, its a workshop rate regardless of whom works on your vehicle.
*The workshop foreman/supervisor or team leader (if we get all group huggy etc) is what makes or breaks a workshop.
*Average trades people and others require good supervision to steer them in the right direction as needed.
*A workshop with good trades people need only a average supervisor to give them the next job or handing over parts.
*When you have a high turn over of staff, generally you are going to get neither a decent trades person or supervisor.
*There are also the nasty practice of trades people getting a bonus for job loading, the most common one was, it needs brakes doing.

*At the end of the day, if you are only being paid an average amount and its not your business, how much of a **** are you really going to give?
*There are exceptions to this and most end up leaving and working for themselves.
*For me it got to the point the only dickhead worth working for was myself [tonguewink]

Great post.

One thing; "*Yet new car dealerships service departments seem to crap up their relationship with the customer so often."

Mostly, that is because they don't care. They have the customer sewn up for the warranty period, or so they want the customer to believe. It's BS. Limiting warranties by tying them to particular servicing entities is illegal in this country. Provided the required servicing intervals are met, and the work is carried out by a person deemed competent, and the consumables used are fit for purpose any car manufacturer who dishonours a warranty is going to be wishing they hadn't.

This is one reason car companies make access to diagnostic software so difficult. They NEED dealerships to be profitable, otherwise they would need to subsidise them. Of course though, in JLR's case 99% of first buyers will be companies, and they'll just write servicing off as a business expense.

[scarry]

IMHO...

*Acording to a recent report by the ACCC over 60% of new car dealerships profit is from the service department.
*Yet new car dealerships service departments seem to crap up their relationship with the customer so often.
*A new car dealership service department will often have a lubey (boy/man/woman), which is simply someone that has been deemed competent enough to do the single task of changing oil on a car.
*Small to medium workshops may have one or two non trade qualified people on the floor assisting mechanics as needed. Large workshops, the trade assistants and others will out number the tradesman 2 to 1 (or whatever the max allowed is).

*One thing that peeves me off sometimes is this belief some have with regards to being charged a supposed rate tradesman rate and having an apprentice or trade assistant working on their pride and joy. The hourly rate is NOT a whatever person rate, its a workshop rate regardless of whom works on your vehicle.
*The workshop foreman/supervisor or team leader (if we get all group huggy etc) is what makes or breaks a workshop.
*Average trades people and others require good supervision to steer them in the right direction as needed.
*A workshop with good trades people need only a average supervisor to give them the next job or handing over parts.
*When you have a high turn over of staff, generally you are going to get neither a decent trades person or supervisor.
*There are also the nasty practice of trades people getting a bonus for job loading, the most common one was, it needs brakes doing.

*At the end of the day, if you are only being paid an average amount and its not your business, how much of a **** are you really going to give?
*There are exceptions to this and most end up leaving and working for themselves.
*For me it got to the point the only dickhead worth working for was myself [tonguewink]

Ok,i see your point,although we will have to agree to disagree[biggrin]

If we all agreed on everything,the place would be boring..

So the two different dealer invoices that i have in front of me that have 'technician' labour rate,may actually not be technicians.
They could be apprentices,TA's,or whatever.

[Tins]

Ok,i see your point,although we will have to agree to disagree[biggrin]

If we all agreed on everything,the place would be boring..

So the two different dealer invoices that i have in front of me that have 'technician' labour rate,may actually not be technicians.
They could be apprentices,TA's,or whatever.

The problem with that is, you are expected to be aware that an apprentice is under "supervision". Be grateful you did not have to pay more.[bigsad][bigwhistle]

[scarry]

The problem with that is, you are expected to be aware that an apprentice is under "supervision". Be grateful you did not have to pay more.[bigsad][bigwhistle]

Thinking more about it,they should probably just put 'labour' on the invoice,then it would cover anyone.[biggrin]

[Bigbjorn]

For those among you who have not worked in the metal trades and are not aware of industrial practices.

An apprentice is supposed to work under the supervision of a qualified tradesman. Labourers and Trades Assistants likewise work under supervision. Qualified tradesmen are assumed to be competent and are given work to do and are minimally supervised by a leading hand or foreman.

Why motor mechanics are now called "technicians" is beyond my understanding. In my time on the tools technicians were workers who had taken Certificate or Diploma studies at a technical college. Such qualifications were regarded as being between a Trades Certificate and a university degree. They commonly wore dust coats in the shop whereas we greasy fitters wore overalls.

[DazzaTD5]

Ok,i see your point,although we will have to agree to disagree[biggrin]

If we all agreed on everything,the place would be boring..

So the two different dealer invoices that i have in front of me that have 'technician' labour rate,may actually not be technicians.
They could be apprentices,TA's,or whatever.

As the term "technician" according to a dictionary doesnt mean a tradesman or anything, so its just a sales bull**** term.
Its a play on customers assumptions and covers their arse as its not in ref to a "tradesman" or "mechanic"

[Tombie]

As the term "technician" according to a dictionary doesnt mean a tradesman or anything, so its just a sales bull**** term.
Its a play on customers assumptions and covers their arse as its not in ref to a "tradesman" or "mechanic"



I’d think the Armed Forces May beg to differ on your definition... [emoji41]

And I think much of the time it does cover the modern tasks -> someone working in a field of technology, proficient in a relevant skill or technique.

Over the years I’ve come to appreciate that Qualifications are evidence of some type of formal study, not evidence of capability or proficiency.
I’ve come across many who meet these a acronyms...
NAMA, NAEA, NAFA, NABA etc! [emoji48]

The good ones are hard to find!

I’ve even seen tradespersons who as apprentices go through their time, with only minimal exposure to certain components of their trade.
Not unusual to find someone for example, who has a Fitters Trade but never worked on specific types of pumps, or can barely machine...



Of interesting note: in several Western countries Trades aren’t a revered culture like they are in Australia and can not charge like they do here for their certifications.

[Grumbles]

Sounds way to much for a minor service,as you can see from my post about the minor service on the van.In fact the majors are never over $500.

But yours is a 4WD so there will be more costs for majors.

It will also depend exactly what they are doing on the minors.

One GV is a 4WD and the other is a 2WD. Both run very close in the service costs.

The minor services are basically an oil and oil filter change with a lot of "Check this" and "Check that" boxes to tick. There are also a lot of ancillary charges and workshop charges for both cars.

[Markf]

Well it appears that they've finally fixed it.

Within the hour we're off towards Alice so we'll see how it goes.

[cripesamighty]

Cross your fingers and have a safe, uneventful (mechanically speaking) trip!

[Bohica]

I hope it goes well.

[rangieman]

Well it appears that they've finally fixed it.

Within the hour we're off towards Alice so we'll see how it goes.
Safe travels and good luck hope all the BS is all behind you now[thumbsupbig]

[Tins]

Well it appears that they've finally fixed it.

Within the hour we're off towards Alice so we'll see how it goes.

Best post on this thread. Good luck and happy trails. Send us some pics, you know how much Pedro likes them..

[Markf]

Well we got to Horsham OK. It runs well and the oil level is stable.
There will be pics as we go..

[Tins]

Thinking more about it,they should probably just put 'labour' on the invoice,then it would cover anyone.[biggrin]

Including $220 PH for someone to wash it. Badly.

[Tins]

I’d think the Armed Forces May beg to differ on your definition... [emoji41]

And I think much of the time it does cover the modern tasks -> someone working in a field of technology, proficient in a relevant skill or technique.

Over the years I’ve come to appreciate that Qualifications are evidence of some type of formal study, not evidence of capability or proficiency.
I’ve come across many who meet these a acronyms...
NAMA, NAEA, NAFA, NABA etc! [emoji48]

The good ones are hard to find!

I’ve even seen tradespersons who as apprentices go through their time, with only minimal exposure to certain components of their trade.
Not unusual to find someone for example, who has a Fitters Trade but never worked on specific types of pumps, or can barely machine...



Of interesting note: in several Western countries Trades aren’t a revered culture like they are in Australia and can not charge like they do here for their certifications.

Hmm. In the Armed Forces I held the rank of CFN, which expands to Craftsman. I was nothing of the sort...

[101RRS]

Hmm. In the Armed Forces I held the rank of CFN, which expands to Craftsman. I was nothing of the sort...

The Craftsman relates to Rank - eg LAC - Leading Air Craftsman - it is a Rank not a Skill category.

[Tins]

The Craftsman relates to Rank - eg LAC - Leading Air Craftsman - it is a Rank not a Skill category.

I know. I was one. Vehicle Mech. I was merely pointing out the accuracy of Tombie's statement re proficiency. The ARA's Apprenticeship Scheme turned out far better tradesmen ( They were all men in those days ) than the Adult Trades Scheme I was part of. I believe it was instituted to get bloke with spanners into the field quickly in the Vietnam era.

[DazzaTD5]

Including $220 PH for someone to wash it. Badly.

Woo woo.... I thought fancy coffees pretty ladies and cash wash was a complimentary thing [tonguewink]

[Bigbjorn]

The Craftsman relates to Rank - eg LAC - Leading Air Craftsman - it is a Rank not a Skill category.

Try it this way- Leading aircraft man. Nothing to do with being a skilled tradesman. In army terms a lance corporal. In private sector terms a charge hand or leading hand,

Even though I was one I could never work out the cachet associated with being a "Journeyman". It is purely a term referring to a former apprentice who had completed his indentures and left his master's employ and worked at his trade elsewhere for a year. No doubt a good move for many who only did the work required in his master's business and the journeyman year exposed him to further aspects of his trade.

Trade skills depend on where and how the tradesman was trained. Some government bodies like the railway workshops had good training programmes and turned out good tradesmen. They never learned to do the day's work expected in the private sector though. If they stayed in the rail shops they commonly worked in a particular section of their trade for years such as boilies who only marked out, were burners, riveters, plate rollers etc. and fitters who barely touched a machine tool but worked on pumps, axles and engines etc.

[weeds]

The Craftsman relates to Rank - eg LAC - Leading Air Craftsman - it is a Rank not a Skill category.

Umm, I was a Craftsman ‘crafty’ in the ARMY, in the army a craftsman is definitely linked to a skill category I.e. you only get the rank of Craftsman if you are deemed proficient in a Trade, your ECN defines the skill category. There are no crafty’s getting around without an important skill........but yes it is a rank but it’s an exclusive club.

[rick130]

For those among you who have not worked in the metal trades and are not aware of industrial practices.

An apprentice is supposed to work under the supervision of a qualified tradesman. Labourers and Trades Assistants likewise work under supervision. Qualified tradesmen are assumed to be competent and are given work to do and are minimally supervised by a leading hand or foreman.

Why motor mechanics are now called "technicians" is beyond my understanding. In my time on the tools technicians were workers who had taken Certificate or Diploma studies at a technical college. Such qualifications were regarded as being between a Trades Certificate and a university degree. They commonly wore dust coats in the shop whereas we greasy fitters wore overalls.


As the term "technician" according to a dictionary doesnt mean a tradesman or anything, so its just a sales bull**** term.
Its a play on customers assumptions and covers their arse as its not in ref to a "tradesman" or "mechanic"



I've gone from 'mechanic' to 'technician' to 'Senior technician' to 'Field Service Engineer' when doing work in data centres and I'm carrying a laptop ! :Rolling:

At my last place of employ one of the young techs asked how you became a senior tech, I said you needed to be sporting grey hair. :D

[101RRS]

Umm, I was a Craftsman ‘crafty’ in the ARMY, in the army a craftsman is definitely linked to a skill category I.e. you only get the rank of Craftsman if you are deemed proficient in a Trade, your ECN defines the skill category. There are no crafty’s getting around without an important skill........but yes it is a rank but it’s an exclusive club.

But he wasn't talking about the army - the Airforce where LAC is a rank - (the Craft relates to Aircraft not a craft) just as in the Navy you can hold the rank of Leading Seaman (male or female) and not be one of the Seaman categories or skill sets.

[weeds]

But he wasn't talking about the army - the Airforce where LAC is a rank - (the Craft relates to Aircraft not a craft) just as in the Navy you can hold the rank of Leading Seaman (male or female) and not be one of the Seaman categories or skill sets.

Kinda got it, wasn’t aware air force had the word craftsman in a rank, a little wiser now.

What rank would the tradesman I.e. vehicle mechanic have in the Air Force?.

[101RRS]

What rank would the tradesman I.e. vehicle mechanic have in the Air Force?.

Could be any rank really - in the technical categories from probably starting at LAC up to Air Vice Marshall (officers tend to hold engineer quals but may have been tradies if they came up through the ranks)

Vehicle Mechanic would normally be a junior rank but with further training and increasing rank morf into something else technical.

[Markf]

We've arrived at Woomera after three days of pushing it. No faults logged and behaving perfectly despite towing a 1.8t camper. Oil level is still stable and fuel consumption is around 13l/100km. It revs to 4k rpm and pulls well.
I'd say the problem is fixed.

[Bohica]

We've arrived at Woomera after three days of pushing it. No faults logged and behaving perfectly despite towing a 1.8t camper. Oil level is still stable and fuel consumption is around 13l/100km. It revs to 4k rpm and pulls well.
I'd say the problem is fixed.

Good to hear. Are you going on the restricted area? The launch pads are a sight to see. On the northern edge of Lake Gardiner.

[trout1105]

We've arrived at Woomera after three days of pushing it. No faults logged and behaving perfectly despite towing a 1.8t camper. Oil level is still stable and fuel consumption is around 13l/100km. It revs to 4k rpm and pulls well.
I'd say the problem is fixed.
That is Great news, Now you can finally start to enjoy your trip.[thumbsupbig][bigrolf]

[Markf]

Good to hear. Are you going on the restricted area? The launch pads are a sight to see. On the northern edge of Lake Gardiner.
Unfortunately no. We just don't have the time. Marla tomorrow - about 600 odd km. Managed to get the coolant temp up to 90 today while roaring up hill in 2nd at about 3.5k rpm.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Thats sounds pretty good,,

2nd at 3.5 up hill towing is a good test[thumbsupbig]

[Tombie]

Unfortunately no. We just don't have the time. Marla tomorrow - about 600 odd km. Managed to get the coolant temp up to 90 today while roaring up hill in 2nd at about 3.5k rpm.

The ones just outside Pimba?

The Linfox Crawl of Shame hills [emoji6]

[Tombie]

Good to hear. Are you going on the restricted area? The launch pads are a sight to see. On the northern edge of Lake Gardiner.

Restricted access at the moment..

[andeck]

Well it appears that they've finally fixed it.

Within the hour we're off towards Alice so we'll see how it goes.

Hey markf, hope the rest of the trip pans out really well.

So was the actual fix simply the replacement of seals in the end, or was it head problem also?

[aljam]

Is a mechanic a mechanic [bighmmm]
Honestly any intelligent mechanic could do that job and if they are unfamiliar to the car and job there is what we all revert to is google these days [wink11]
I have worked all manner of things and if im not sure on something good ol google helps .
Yes it is a old car car compared to the space crafts of today but a motor is a motor it is only the sequence of work and managment technology that has changed [wink11]

I completely agree with you. An internal combustion engine is still an internal combustion engine; a diff is a diff a gearbox still a gearbox. Most "automotive" apprentices do not get taught any practical and applicable knowledge about such things any more (including over the last ten years at least). That is because the costs of this practical training have been deemed to be too excessive by the bureaucrats and registered training organisation affiliates who (with absolutely no knowledge of the industry at all) are responsible for getting people certified at minimal and unrealistic costs.
So this generation of "mechanics" are taught how to plug in a computer and read a code book. "Repair" then becomes a bolt on bolt off approach - to the detriment of the consumer.
This bureaucratic approach in administering practical and applicable training competency is not only isolated to mechanical trades either. And the Government claims we have a skills shortage!
Additionally; Ask yourself why any mechanical trades-person would stay in an industry that does nothing to reward experience? A tradie with 20 years experience and an enormous wealth of knowledge gets paid the same as a first year mechanic with an at best questionable competency. It seems that no business these days will recognize and reward experience, even though that will be far more profitable for the long term. Hence "experienced" mechanics get out of Dealerships as soon as they can and you are left with an inexperienced work force based on margins, statistics and short term profit -not results or Customer Service.
My advice would be to find a good self employed mechanic or specialist trades outlet who know their stuff. They are out there, you just need to work a bit to find them. Avoid Dealerships - once you have driven the vehicle out of the showroom their "concerns" cease. It may cost a little more in time initially but it will provide much better value for your buck - not to mention peace of mind - overall.

[67hardtop]

Was easy to be well rounded when there was like 4 types of Carby, 2 brands of fuel pump. And points were points.

Now there’s 500+ ECUs
Multiple brands of injection
Endless configurations and control systems

If you can be an all-rounder in that environment you’re doing very well (and you have about $750,000 in diagnostic equipment and tools!)And most of is on just one car...[emoji23]

[DiscoMick]

I completely agree with you. An internal combustion engine is still an internal combustion engine; a diff is a diff a gearbox still a gearbox. Most "automotive" apprentices do not get taught any practical and applicable knowledge about such things any more (including over the last ten years at least). That is because the costs of this practical training have been deemed to be too excessive by the bureaucrats and registered training organisation affiliates who (with absolutely no knowledge of the industry at all) are responsible for getting people certified at minimal and unrealistic costs.
So this generation of "mechanics" are taught how to plug in a computer and read a code book. "Repair" then becomes a bolt on bolt off approach - to the detriment of the consumer.
This bureaucratic approach in administering practical and applicable training competency is not only isolated to mechanical trades either. And the Government claims we have a skills shortage!
Additionally; Ask yourself why any mechanical trades-person would stay in an industry that does nothing to reward experience? A tradie with 20 years experience and an enormous wealth of knowledge gets paid the same as a first year mechanic with an at best questionable competency. It seems that no business these days will recognize and reward experience, even though that will be far more profitable for the long term. Hence "experienced" mechanics get out of Dealerships as soon as they can and you are left with an inexperienced work force based on margins, statistics and short term profit -not results or Customer Service.
My advice would be to find a good self employed mechanic or specialist trades outlet who know their stuff. They are out there, you just need to work a bit to find them. Avoid Dealerships - once you have driven the vehicle out of the showroom their "concerns" cease. It may cost a little more in time initially but it will provide much better value for your buck - not to mention peace of mind - overall.Trade training funding has also been cut by a large amount.

[Markf]

The ones just outside Pimba?

The Linfox Crawl of Shame hills [emoji6]

Nah. That ones 3rd at lots of revs. We passed a quad tanker Road train going up there. Wasn't hard it was probably only going at walking pace.
The one just before Burra is what got us...

[Markf]

Hey markf, hope the rest of the trip pans out really well.

So was the actual fix simply the replacement of seals in the end, or was it head problem also?

Yep, the trick was to replace the washers and o-rings carefully and properly.
Since it was done it's been going like a train (about 100kph towing 1.8t) getting good fuel consumption (about 13.5l/100km) and the oil level is going DOWN at a rate I'd expect from my D2.