Quandary: P38A+County or Defender

[p38arover]

I'm in a quandary.

I bought the County to use for off-roading but it's nowhere a comfortable as the P38A in terms of noise levels, climate control, sound system, seating, space for the driver and passenger, etc.

It does have the advantages of simplicity (especially compared to the P38A) and of being able to be set up permanently for camping/4WDing.

However, I can't justify having two 4WDs and having them both set up for off-road, i.e., off-road tyres (both), CBs (P38A), long range tanks (County), wheel carriers (both), drawers (County), and all the other stuff.

I'm not sure which way to go. I'll get very little for the P38A but I suppose if I sold it and the County, I could afford a second-hand Defender and perhaps even add LPG fumigation.

I'm tempted by GreyLandy's Defender panel van/hard top but I prefer a station wagon - especially if it will be my only car.

I think I need to borrow a Defender to drive exclusively for a week - if only to gauge how much better it is than a County, if at all. The County has a V8 coupled to the 4-speed gearbox and this box isn't the most user friendly nor is it quiet in the intermediate gears (layshaft bearings).

One of the biggest failings of the County is the lack of working air con but a Defender air con takes up lots of foot room. The P38A air con is excellent - far, far superior to the RR classic.

The P38A is just so good in so many ways that I'm reluctant to part with it but there is the constant nagging concern of expensive problems waiting to raise their heads.

I know that any repair on the P38A will cost me less than one year's depreciation on any lesser car - and certainly far less than the depreciation on a D3.

Do I want diesel as in a Defender? I think so but, really, unless one is travelling a lot of outback miles, I'm not convinced there is any advantage over an LPG converted V8 (and I have an LPG kit to fit to the County). Looked after, the 3.5 litre V8 is very reliable (but I do have the old 4.6 litre from my P38A that could be refurbished and fitted to the County).

Sorry about the rambling but I'm still trying to think my way through this.

Oh, I'm the third owner of the County (the first being JRA) so I have a machine the history of which is known (and I'm still friends with the 2nd owner).

Ron

[noddy]

Howdy Ron

Would the Defender be your daily drive or is that your Subby?

Agree, something has to give here. Couple of scenarios:

1. Sell both P38 & County and get a D90 (great offroad and good for belting around the city)

2. Sell County and keep P38 (rip out EAS and anything else that it about to bung in a big way)

3. Sell P38 and invest in the County to make more comfy and a weekend play thing.

4. Sell P38, County, Subby and buy a D3 (hoping it does not go bung!!!) :wink: 8O

Just trying to help.

[RichardK]

Ron,
Just for your knowledge bank have a look in the February LROI, theres a P38a set up for full offroading.






5

[abaddonxi]

I thought that one of the things that made the County a County was air-conditioning and closed off vents?

I've had a go at both, more or less.

More elbow room, just, in County.

Better brakes, by far, on Defender.

I'm not keen on V8s, but I'm reckoning that if you are you aren't going to be happy with a tdi, sure that td5 is the same.

I'm guessing LPG fumigation would improve the low rev pick up that tdi has before turbo spools up and performance, but I doubt you're going to feel like you've got a lion in your pants.

The rest, I reckon, is edge of performance stuff.

A Defender is pretty much a Defender.


Brakes.


Cheers
Simon

[matbor]

Originally posted by RichardK
Ron,
Just for your knowledge bank have a look in the February LROI, theres a P38a set up for full offroading.


Just read it today, looks awesome https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Matt.

[p38arover]

Originally posted by RichardK
Ron,
Just for your knowledge bank have a look in the February LROI, theres a P38a set up for full offroading.

Since change of ownership, the local newsagent no longer carries LROI (nor LRE nor LRM).

Ron

[JDNSW]

The Defender/County is never going to equal the comfort of the P38A, and the P38A is never going to equal the simplicity and ease of repair of the County/Defender. If you can only justify one, you will just have to decide!

The problem with LPG is where do you put the tank(s)? This applies to any LPG vehicle.

In my case I look at my County and compare the money that would be needed to bring it back to near new condition plus some upgrades, and conclude that it would still be cheaper than a Defender. One advantage I have is that I do not have factory airconditioning - I have aftermarket aircon that is a lot better, although not anywhere near the P38A.

The advantage of keeping my County is that I know its history, I am familiar with much of the works, and it is unlikely to spring any real surprises. If I get ANY replacement I am likely to get surprises, and if it is not a new vehicle it won't have a warranty to cushion the surprise - and even if there is a warranty, who wants to get involved with warranty repairs anyway?

[Redback]

Hi Ron sorry to go OT, but did you get my PM.

[Frenchie]

My Defender is noisier than my County was.

(At least the County had an attempt at acoustic insulation).

That can be fixed though. :?

[matbor]

Ron,
get heavy duty carpet/insulation put though the County and after market seats, plus aftermarket air con.

Matt.

[Greylandy]

Ron,

Sell the P38A and the County and get a secondhand Defender. No matter what the condition of the County it is still a twenty year old vehicle that will require constant attention as it gets older. I agree the Defenders haven't changed much .. but in my opinion the TD5 and newer models are far superior in terms of comfort, noise levels, aircon and general drivability.

I'd look for a 2001 model TD5 Defender or late model 300Tdi with little accessories or signs of offroading. That will be a good base to build-up a touring landy.

Henry

[dungarover]

Keep the County if that is what you plan on doing more off-road work. The P38 is a ripper unit and knowing what Hardys does off-road they're not a soft cock 4WD https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

But like you said, the County is simple and basic, but nowhere near as comfortable as a everyday 4WD. I presonally hate diesels and would never own one myself, but each to there own. I've always said if I was to buy a 'real' Land Rover i would pick the V8 County over any crap diesel any day, but that's just me.

Regards,

Trav

[RichardK]

Just for you Ron........................


http://www.aulro.com/albums/album282/P38a.sized.jpg


Don't drool.....................



2

[51jay]

After your P38A I can't see you being happy with defender or county as a daily driver.

My opinion......sell the county, get the genuine workshop manuals and start learning your P38A. They do pretty good circuit diagrams and it's surprising what you can do yourself once you begin to understand it all.

Next best step down to latest model Vogue SE prior to the P38A. When the air suapension starts to play up scrap it and use conventional springing. Climate control may not be as good but mine pushes out plenty of cold air ...and thats the main thing.

I'd only use LPG if the tanks replaced the fuel tank then if you want duel fuel you need sill tanks. Inside the car they just take up too much room.

There's no substitute for the V8 though the RR ones are pretty crappy in terms of power. Ican't afford the $300 + + per week for fuel So I'm putting in a TDI300 with large fmic, 3" exhaust and a bigger turbo...it won't come close to the supercharged 3.9l but it should be at least drivable.

The Landrovers may be the last word in off track ability but the RR isn't that far behind and like you...I'm partial to a bit of comfort.
The TD5 Discos are far too complicated for long time reliability and everything costs heaps.

Well thats my semi coherent 2 bits worth.

[p38arover]

Originally posted by Noddy
Would the Defender be your daily drive or is that your Subby?

1. Sell both P38 & County and get a D90 (great offroad and good for belting around the city)

2. Sell County and keep P38 (rip out EAS and anything else that it about to bung in a big way)

3. Sell P38 and invest in the County to make more comfy and a weekend play thing.

4. Sell P38, County, Subby and buy a D3 (hoping it does not go bung!!!) :wink: 8O

No, it will be daily driver. I rarely drive the Forester - that's wife's car.

1. D90 too small.

2. I like EAS and it has been quite reliable. To replace EAS would require Engineer's Certificate as the car was never sold with coils springs.

3. Not sure I'd like the County as a daily driver. Too noisy, too cramped, manual gearbox (bloody awful LT95), etc. The Defender addressed some of the County issues but I'm not sure about it being a daily driver either. Weekends? I get one weekend off each month if I'm lucky and I don't get called out.

4. D3? Going from the frying pan into the fire if moving from a P38A. The D3 is even more complex.

Ron

[p38arover]

Originally posted by abaddonxi
I thought that one of the things that made the County a County was air-conditioning and closed off vents?

More elbow room, just, in County.

Better brakes, by far, on Defender.

I'm not keen on V8s, but I'm reckoning that if you are you aren't going to be happy with a tdi, sure that td5 is the same.

I'm guessing LPG fumigation would improve the low rev pick up that tdi has before turbo spools up and performance, but I doubt you're going to feel like you've got a lion in your pants.

I don't know if the 4BD1-engined Countys had air con - the ones I've seen haven't. But they seem to have opening vents. I think it was the carpet that made them Countys (or is that Counties?).

More elbow room in a County? Jeez! I thought the Defender had the seats moved inward and that would have improved that.

Brakes? Absolutely. Every Defender (with rear discs) I've driven has been a better stopper than the County. Next to the P38A, the County a shocker.

re V8/diesel, I don't have any real preference except for fuel economy. I think acceptance of the vibration and noise of a 4BD1 must be an acquired thing. I've driven a number of Tdi and TD5s and I'm impressed by them, especially after LPG fumigation. The only way to get a lion in your pants with a V8 County, is to get rid of the 3.5 and put in the 4.6 I have on the garage floor. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Ron

[Greylandy]

Ron,

You are discounting a lot of options there ... guess the only thing left to suggest is a late model D1/300tdi or D2/TD5. You can also get that in a V8 option for a third of the price and spend some dosh on the lpg convertion. The Disco isn't far behind the fender in offroad ability and will be up there with the P38 in comfort levels.

Henry

[p38arover]

Originally posted by 51jay
My opinion......sell the county, get the genuine workshop manuals and start learning your P38A. They do pretty good circuit diagrams and it's surprising what you can do yourself once you begin to understand it all.

Yep, I've got them and have done most of the work on the P38A since buying it 4 years ago - even down to replacing the engine. I have written a few of the P38A repair pages on http://www.rangerovers.net so I'm not afraid of doing any work on them. I've just finished (yesterday) doing the heater O-rings (again) - that's a mongrel of a job. Even though I wrote the instructions on Range Rovers,net, I still had a bugger of a time doing the rings. I'll update the instructions this week.

I'm overhauling the LPG converter right now - it's on the bench.


Originally posted by 51jay+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(51jay)</div><div class='quotemain'>Next best step down to latest model Vogue SE prior to the P38A. When the air susension starts to play up scrap it and use conventional springing. Climate control may not be as good but mine pushes out plenty of cold air ...and thats the main thing.[/b]

The P38A EAS is not as problematical as the Classic. Besides, replacing the EAS with coil springs requires engineering certification - the P38A was never sold with coils. Climate control on a P38A gives more problems than EAS but I've done the repairs on the climate control.

<!--QuoteBegin-51jay
I'd only use LPG if the tanks replaced the fuel tank then if you want duel fuel you need sill tanks. Inside the car they just take up too much room.[/quote]

The LPG tank used to be behind the seat. I've pulled it out and fitted a toroidal tank in the wheel well. The spare is on a Kaymar rear stepbar/swing away wheel carrier. - see my car at http://rangerovers.net/outfitting/bumpers/...ump.html#kaymar (http://rangerovers.net/outfitting/bumpers/rearbump.html#kaymar)

Unlike a RR classic or D1, LPG tanks can't be installed in the sills of a P38A, the chassis swings outward in the sill area so there is no room for tanks.

Ron

[Ace]

What about this one ron?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/land-rover-county-3...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/land-rover-county-3-9-isuzu-diesel-pop-top_W0QQitemZ4621215891QQcategoryZ96714QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem)

The 3.9L Izuzu is one of the best diesel engines they ever put in land rovers. This thing is well set up and the pop top set up is awsome. If i was shopping for a Landy now and saw that i would consider it myself. Matt

[BRINDO75]

OK A COUNTY IS A DEFENDER JUST A BIT OLDER IVE BEEN IN ALOT OF DEFENDERS AND THEY ARE NO QUIETER THEN MY COUNTY .
AS FOR POWER IVE SEA ANCHERED THE 3.5 A SLIPPED IN A 3.9 FROM A DISCO.
YEH CHUCK THE 5 SPEED GO FOR A 4SPEED OR A AUTO AS MINE HAS (MMM NICE)
MY SEATS ARE STAIGHT OUT OF A 95 DEFENDER WITH SPLIT REAR SEAT FITTED TOO.
SO FAR THE TRUCK HAS COST ME 10,000 DOLLARS . THATS A FAR CRY FROM THE COST OF A DEFENDER , WITH ALOT MORE POWER.
AND THE RIDE IS AS GOOD AS A DEFENDER IF NOT BETTER.

[JDNSW]

Originally posted by p38arover+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(p38arover)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-abaddonxi
I thought that one of the things that made the County a County was air-conditioning and closed off vents?

More elbow room, just, in County.

Better brakes, by far, on Defender.

I'm not keen on V8s, but I'm reckoning that if you are you aren't going to be happy with a tdi, sure that td5 is the same.

I'm guessing LPG fumigation would improve the low rev pick up that tdi has before turbo spools up and performance, but I doubt you're going to feel like you've got a lion in your pants.

I don't know if the 4BD1-engined Countys had air con - the ones I've seen haven't. But they seem to have opening vents. I think it was the carpet that made them Countys (or is that Counties?).

More elbow room in a County? Jeez! I thought the Defender had the seats moved inward and that would have improved that.

Brakes? Absolutely. Every Defender (with rear discs) I've driven has been a better stopper than the County. Next to the P38A, the County a shocker.

re V8/diesel, I don't have any real preference except for fuel economy. I think acceptance of the vibration and noise of a 4BD1 must be an acquired thing. I've driven a number of Tdi and TD5s and I'm impressed by them, especially after LPG fumigation. The only way to get a lion in your pants with a V8 County, is to get rid of the 3.5 and put in the 4.6 I have on the garage floor. :)

Ron[/b][/quote]

Comments:-
County specifies the level of trim. Airconditioning was optional on all Countys (Counties?).
Elbow room - Yes, Defender moved the seats inboard; this was because the doors are thicker from 1987, to regain the elbow room of the early County.
Brakes - Drum brakes need regular adjustment. If they get this they are little if any worse than the all disc setup, but I'm guessing few get regular brake adjustment. Without this, you will soon find you have front brakes only, not to mention excessive pedal movement and pressure. Of course, the brake warning light should show something is wrong, but were you looking at it while you had the brakes on? (and does the shuttle valve switch work, anyway?)