Which welder?

[Disco-tastic]

Hi all,

I am looking to get a new welder to weld up some rusted sheet metal in my S3. I currently have a 30+ yr old Arc welder which I can use, but its not pretty. I have access to a decent mig welder, but I am looking at a little DC tig/arc welder as I like the control you have with tig, and to be honest if I need the speed of a mig I can either borrow my mates or take longer using tig.

I am definitely a hobbyist, and am looking to spend less than $500 on a lift or HF start machine (no scratch start). The two I am eyeing off are the Rossi 200A (https://www.edisons.com.au/rossi-200amp-tig-arc-mma-inverter-welding-machine/#product_tabs_review_tabbed_contents) (its $220 on ebay) and the Cigweld 180A ("https://sydneytools.com.au/cigweld-w1008180-180a-dc-stick-lift-tig-multi-process-inverter-welder”) for $299. Both use a 15A circuit, which I have in my shed. The Rossi apparently has HF start at 60% duty cycle, while the Cigweld is 40% duty cycle (for tig) and is lift start. I don't have any radios near my shed so the HF start is preferred as its easier to start on dirtier surfaces. But then the Cigweld has a better reputation and I can get it locally instead of off the interwebs.

Anyway, anyone have any thoughts? Anyone used either of these welders? I think the Rossi comes with more gear, such as the tig torch etc, though I'm not entirely sure, and its probably not the greatest quality, though it will probably serve me just fine.

Cheers,

Dan

PS. I've had a look for second hand welders but there a no decent ones near for under $500. I've also searched the forum for this info but the recent threads I found were for mig or arc.

[Slunnie]

No aluminium welding?

[weeds]

I just purchased two Power Craft 131......as advised by my boiler makers, 10amp and can burn through 16TC ‘s all day.

We have more expensive caddy’s and there go to is the power craft as 10amp outlets are easier to find in our plants.

We get a pretty good price on them.

Oh we don’t use the TIG function.....

[Homestar]

They may be ok for small amounts of use, but you don't get much in the way of quality for that money, and doubtful they'll be any spares to be had in 12 months time but if ot suits your needs. Toxic may have some advice on these cheaper units.

I lashed out a couple of years back on a Lincoln multi process unit and it is brilliant. I do use all the functions on it (when I have the gas) and there isn't many weekends it doesn't get rolled out for something, so worth it for me, but I have no dramas with people choosing cheaper items for infrequent use - you should see my woodworking tools... 😁

My only advice would be if you were buying it for MIG work (which it sounds like you aren't) but if so, go for a unit that takes a full size wire spool and not those little mini reels which are basically useless IMO.

[fitzy]

I bought a cigweld 175 after having an old transformer arc and then a mig, i find it great .
Does most stuff quite easily, no gas , only one dial KISS.

[Disco-tastic]

No aluminium welding?I don't plan on it, but apparently you can weld aluminium with DC tig, though not sure how thin. AC is definitely better, but I can't justify an AC/DC unit.

If it was just thicker material I'd just use the stick welder, but as I'll be welding thin steel section up to 4mm steel my understanding is a tig gives you the most control and least blowouts.

That said, the bonnet and floors in the S3 have holes cut by the previous owner(s) which I wouldn't mind patching...

[Disco-tastic]

I bought a cigweld 175 after having an old transformer arc and then a mig, i find it great .
Does most stuff quite easily, no gas , only one dial KISS.How thin can you weld with it?

[Homestar]

In theory you can weld ali with DC TIG but in reality it’s pretty much impossible. A spool gun on a MIG is a much better option.

[Disco-tastic]

They may be ok for small amounts of use, but you don't get much in the way of quality for that money, and doubtful they'll be any spares to be had in 12 months time but if ot suits your needs. Toxic may have some advice on these cheaper units.

I lashed out a couple of years back on a Lincoln multi process unit and it is brilliant. I do use all the functions on it (when I have the gas) and there isn't many weekends it doesn't get rolled out for something, so worth it for me, but I have no dramas with people choosing cheaper items for infrequent use - you should see my woodworking tools... [emoji16]

My only advice would be if you were buying it for MIG work (which it sounds like you aren't) but if so, go for a unit that takes a full size wire spool and not those little mini reels which are basically useless IMO.That's why I was leaning towards the Cigweld unit - the brand has been around longer and I have a better chance of customer support - the Rossi is likely a throw away item if it fails.

That said, if I get good use out of it, and find good reasons to have a better welder, when they die I can then justify a more expensive setup.

I'm hoping Mitch drops by with some advice though he probably wouldn't go anywhere near either of these machines. :)

[Disco-tastic]

In theory you can weld ali with DC TIG but in reality it’s pretty much impossible.I've seen it done (on the interwebs) with both stick and DC tig on 1/4 inch aluminium - not sure how thin you can go, though I would probably try it on some scrap either way, just to try it for myself.

[Homestar]

That's why I was leaning towards the Cigweld unit - the brand has been around longer and I have a better chance of customer support - the Rossi is likely a throw away item if it fails.

That said, if I get good use out of it, and find good reasons to have a better welder, when they die I can then justify a more expensive setup.

The cheap Cigwelds are mass produced Chinese stuff now and it’s a name only - they are no better or worse than other cheap Chinese stuff.

[Disco-tastic]

The cheap Cigwelds are mass produced Chinese stuff now and it’s a name only - they are no better or worse than other cheap Chinese stuff.Their machine quality might not be better but I'd expect their after sales and parts support to be better, as they have a reputation to keep.

I'm also open to suggestions of what sort of entry level welder I should be looking at.

[ozscott]

I had my TAFE teacher in TIG do a DC weld on 3mm alloy for me...amazing job...but I can't do it. Even his job wasn't anywhere near as good as he could do using a huge ACDC TIG. I have a very reliable Esseti 150 amp lift arc (DC) inverter tig/stick welder. Had it for around 15 years. Fantastic stick welder and able to handle fine jobs and still step up and drive 4mm rods all day long. Light on the sling too.

BUT while it could easily do stainless TIG (it has the TIG gun and assuming you want to rent Argon) I wouldn't bother with alloy and wouldn't want to weld car panel steel with it.

I can't justify a good quality ACDC TIG but I would like one.

Cheers

[Homestar]

I've seen it done (on the interwebs) with both stick and DC tig on 1/4 inch aluminium - not sure how thin you can go, though I would probably try it on some scrap either way, just to try it for myself.

Yes, it can be done, but is very difficult and the results are generally pretty crappy and getting down to thin material is even harder. For under $100 you can buy a spool gun and weld 2mm and thicker ali all day long without breaking a sweat so why frig around?

[Homestar]

Their machine quality might not be better but I'd expect their after sales and parts support to be better, as they have a reputation to keep.



Suit yourself but their reputation went out the window ages ago.

I'll shut up now, being a welding product specialist for a national company means nothing here with so many well informed internet warriors... 😉

I'll leave it to you all to solve the worlds problems.

[ozscott]

Whose saying that. Post away mate as your input would be gr8.

Cheers

[cjc_td5]

Damn you lot! You've got me looking for something to upgrade my trusty old Cigweld stick welder.....

The AIG 175 machine seems like a lot of welder for the money?
Welding Supply Store Australia | Home | Australia Industrial Group (https://www.australiaindustrialgroup.com/product-page/aig-175-mig-mma-welding-machine)

Any thoughts/feedback?

[ozscott]

Mate if you want stick and mig combined in a cheap machine have a Captain here

RMIG175I Renegade 160 Amp Inverter MIG MMA Welder 35% Duty Cycle | Welding Machines - TradeTools | TradeTools - Get It Right... For Less! (http://www.tradetools.com/product-range/welding-equipment/welding-machines/renegade-160-amp-inverter-mig-mma-welder-60-duty-cycle)

Cheers

[donh54]

That Renegade one might be what I need. Got to weld up sme rust in the No. 5 trailer, as well as make up a frame to fit the side fold camper on it.

[Disco-tastic]

Suit yourself but their reputation went out the window ages ago.

I'll shut up now, being a welding product specialist for a national company means nothing here with so many well informed internet warriors... [emoji6]

I'll leave it to you all to solve the worlds problems.Whoa Gav... The reason I'm here asking questions is because I know little about what makes a good welder, and am after advice from people who are more knowledgeable, like yourself. Didn't know you were a welding product specialist though. Sorry if my comments came across as disregarding your experience and input.

I've tried to do some research about what I want/need before coming here, so all of my statements are stuff I've found off the net - I'm not trying to say anyone's opinion is wrong, just stating what I've seen/read in order to have it confirmed or denied. For example the Cigweld stuff - I thought they had a good reputation, not knowing its gone downhill with cheaper Chinese stuff.

No need to shut up - its the input like yours that I want to hear.

Cheers

Dan

[Disco-tastic]

Yes, it can be done, but is very difficult and the results are generally pretty crappy and getting down to thin material is even harder. For under $100 you can buy a spool gun and weld 2mm and thicker ali all day long without breaking a sweat so why frig around?Would I be better just using a mig for the S3 door frames? Then i can change wire and fill in the holes in the ally? The main reason I was looking at tig was the control you seem to get with it. Its partly an excuse to get a new toy too :)

[Toxic_Avenger]

Sweet. Something I can write about with my morning coffee.

Machine selection
I'm biased to a big red brand, but there are a lot of good machines out there. The ebay cheapies need to be treated as ebay cheapies, so keep that in mind for longevity and parts availability long(er) term.
That being said, even the big suppliers will hold parts for 10 years or so after the machine is discontinued, so there is a limit. Your budget and level of use will dictate.

Process selection
Not all processes (MIG/STICK/TIG) are equal. Stick is easy to get into, no gas needed, but lots of cleanup of slag etc. Can be very resilient to surface contamination. MIG is fast, can be run with a shielding gas with a solid core wire like an ER70S-6 spec, or 'gasless' with a flux-cored wire like an E71T spec (be careful, some gasless wires are single pass only...). Surface prep is important, as there is very little in the way of oxidants in the wire to carry away crap from your base metal to the surface of your weld pool.
TIG is the NASA spec welding process- everything need to be clean AF. You'd want to be able to eat your lunch off it. Fitup will ideally involve cutting, beveling, sanding and cleaning with acetone or similar to prep before even getting the welder turned on. So rusty work is not an ideal TIG candidate without a lot of prep.

Power source
Stick / TIG uses a constant current output, so you'll be able to tig (albeit scratch start) on even the cheapest little stick welders with a suitable torch.
This is opposed to MIG which is constant voltage output, and has extra magic inside to allow a 'multiprocess' power source capable of doing both CC and CV. Then you get into the world of the suitcase wire feeders which are fed CC from a engine drive unit, then switch it to allow MIG output.
Quality can vary... a welder is essentially a gearbox for power out of your wall... so it's level of efficiency, quality (smoothness) of output and lifespan come into play. 240V AC comes in, magic happens, and you get a DC output, Constant Current (CC) for Stick/tig, and Constant Voltage (CV) for MIG. Then there is the quality of the synergic maps that the machine uses to ramp up current/voltage, and choke short circuit current spike conditions in dip transfer...
TL;DR, buy what you can afford and justify getting value out of for your level of use.

Features
What's a nice to have and a must have? Keep in mind- is this machine making you your living, or is it something that you dig out of the shed for a play once a month?
Duty cycle- this reflects in part how efficient the machine is in converting your 240V into a welding output. Inverter machines chop and change the AC waveform to make a nice welding output, but this comes at the expense of power losses and heat... and the circuitry inside the machine can only handle so much heat before it ultimately melts into a puddle on the shed floor. 100% duty cycle would be nice, BUT unless you are literally a robot, you'll never reach the duty cycle. Aim for somewhere between 30 and 60% duty cycle at a current level which is honest for the kind of work you are doing- and clarify what the stated duty cycle is measured at. eg 60% @ 120A would be fine for a home gamer, but this might be a 180A machine, and be good for 30% duty cycle at 175A...
Accessories- Ensure you get what you need in the box to start welding. Commonly you can expect to get a MIG gun, earth clamp, a gas hose, some wire feed rolls (for MIG), a regulator.
Spec sheets- ensure you check / compare machines based off their spec sheets- if a supplier can't offer all the technical details of the machine, then consider them either a seller of crap goods, or someone who doesn't know their product. You wnat to know things like duty cycle at a given current output, input voltage (including a variance factor if you plan to run it off a smaller generator), output current (or voltage) range, operating temperature range, IP factor, weights and dimensions, and any applicable standards the machine meets...
Warranty / service- Find out what recourse you have with a faulty machine. They can and do break, like any other man-made thing. Also look at spares availability after the warranty period- many smaller companies will not hold an inventory of spares, so be wary.

DC TIG welding aluminium
I have not tried this, but there is myth and folklore spoken by crusty old boilies from the dark ages. Days where a TIG would cost 5x the yearly salary of the workshop foreman, machines of metal and Iron which required the building to be built around it on 10" thick reinforced concrete footings... Some say it is possible with DC for thick sections using Pure helium shielding gas. These days, with helium being a dwindling resource, the shielding gas would cost as much a couple of decent AC TIG machines... Interesting reading starts here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Helium_Reserve)if you are interested. If we (as humankind) were to put an accurate value on our helium reserves (ie for use in real useful technologies like cooling MRI machines etc), than the real cost of A helium filled party balloon would be about $300.

AC TIG for aluminium
Cheap ebay machines can be had from a couple of hundred, honest home / light fab machines start at approx $1200, a whizz-bang unit from the big manufacturers would set you back about $4K or more. You get what you pay for in these machines, it's equivalnet to watching a video in 240P vs 4K resolution. High end machines have AC pulse, and the welder can dictate where the AC waveforms sits relative to the 0V line (AC Balance), and then stipulate things like pulse time, background current, pulse ON time down to the poofteenth of a second, with a pulse rate of up to 200Hz (200 pulses per second...) I dream of something like this...

Machine country of origin
There was mention of 'cheap mass produced chinese stuff'. The unfortunate reality is that this is where most welding power sources are made. It's economies of scale and comsumer price points which dictate this. Most big brands have 80% of their range made in such places. Those who want higher quality and a given country of origin will have the option, but WELL out of the price range of a home gamer. Fronius, and EWM are two high end manufacturers who have in-country manufacturing, but these machine are an incredibly premium product. The rest are either partly or wholly made in china.



Yeah, can be quite involved, but have an idea of what you are comfortable to spend based on your usage of the machine (and what it'll realistically save you if you were to get the work done professionally by someone else) and be comfortable in having a throw-away unit if something does go wrong with a cheap unit. Mainly, get amongst it, have a crack and 'lay some sick beads' as the apprentices say.

[Homestar]

Glad you found the thread Mitch. [emoji106]

Apologies to all for my last post - I was tired and grumpy - should have left it for the evening but I’m fine now. Sorry again...

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks for stopping by Mitch. Now I know sweet lingo when I want to fit in with real welders ;)

But seriously, thanks.

Do you have any experience with any of the cheaply ones? I can't afford/justify anything more than $500 used or new, and am after some recommendations beneath that price point.

I have some idea of what premium machines can offer, but no real idea how or when to use them. My extent of knowledge on that subject comes from This Old Tony on YouTube - quite entertaining.

[Homestar]

Would I be better just using a mig for the S3 door frames? Then i can change wire and fill in the holes in the ally? The main reason I was looking at tig was the control you seem to get with it. Its partly an excuse to get a new toy too :)

Unfortunately not that easy. Aluminium and steel require different gases when MIG welding. You’ll need pure argon for Ali.

[Disco-tastic]

Unfortunately not that easy. Aluminium and steel require different gases when MIG welding. You’ll need pure argon for Ali.Ahh OK. I didn't know the standard gas to mig with. Is there much difference to technique or is it only setup? i.e. can I practice a bunch on cheap steel before moving to more expensive aluminium?

[jboot51]

I bought a ct416 from ebay.
Plasma cutter, tig and arc.
I only use it for the plasma cutter as I have an ac/dc tig available.
Used it a fair bit for 2 years and had not let me down....yet.

[Homestar]

Ahh OK. I didn't know the standard gas to mig with. Is there much difference to technique or is it only setup? i.e. can I practice a bunch on cheap steel before moving to more expensive aluminium?


Yes, it's quite different - a spool gun feels and acts differently in your hand. I haven't done a heap but used a mates. I am lucky enough to be able to bring an HF AC TIG machine home from work when required which is about once a year.

Start with arc and get a feel for that as it is much more forgiving than other forms of welding. As Toxic said, MIG requires clean metal and good prep whereas you can weld straight through all sorts of crap like rust and scale with an arc (although this isn't recommended). Also, you can make a great looking bead of weld with a MIG and get almost no penatration into the base metal if you don't know what you're doing. Get a heap of scrap steel and start practicing - there's no substitute. 👍

[Dorian]

If your budget is limited, it would pay to check out prices of gas. If you want to do tig then the cost of the machine is not much compared to the price of gas.
If you rent a cylinder, eventually you will want to have it all of the time.
If you purchase a cylinder it will make it a lot cheaper if your doing it for more than a year, assuming your not going thru heaps of gas and then you can do a deal with BOC. Prices of speed gas cylinders Buy Argon Cylinder Australia (https://weldingstore.tokentools.com.au/argon-gas/)

I found that the E size was good to cart around but went to a G as the G size is about 1/2 the price per m3. No so great to move around though. From memory the E (4m3) was around $170 to fill while the G (8.7m3) was $180.

If your using it for thin steel then arc stability will be what your after, others will have a better idea, i've not done a lot of thin steel but i recon you will be down around the 30 amps for 1mm so duty cycle won't be a factor.

I agree with the other comments on repairs, at that price range a warranty claim wont be a repair, it will be a new machine and as such no one will keep spares.
I had a cheap Bossweld and it served me well for 4 years until ants build a nest around the power board and then it didn't do so well. I've now got a higher end Everlast and the support from them has been great.

When I started with tig I found that this guy Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info (http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/) had heaps of useful tips.

Chears Glen

[ozscott]

If you are in SE Old ring Greg owner of State of the Arc at Capalaba. He knows welders. Cheers

[Toxic_Avenger]

$500 would be heaps for a decent stick welder, and in some cases would go most if not all of the way towards funding a TIG torch for a unit which can be run in Lift-TIG mode. Something like a 17 series air cooled tig torch would be fine.
$500 on the mig side would work, but Ideally (and I say ideally, because if you are working on home jobs, it'll get you down) you'd be looking for a synergic (1 dial) machine. The old 2-dial jobs can be a bit more finnicky to set up for your particular job. The synergic units have 1 dial- you choose your voltage, maybe around 19V for a 0.8mm wire, and the wire speed is matched to that. You can throw in a voltage trim to adjust the heat input. Also having an inductance (choke) function will help tune out spatter generated by the short circuit condition which occurs in MIG when the wire touches the weld pool and throws globules of spatter everywhere. The choke/inductance control will prevent the rapid current rise of the short circuit condition and calm things down a little (although this happens multiple times per second).

One thing to note in MIG welding is the Amperage is a function of the contact tip to work distance- CTWD, or wire stick-out, which is often called amps on some machines. If your wire stickout was a rediculous 3m, you'd not even get the wire to melt when the welding circuit was closed. Likewise, too short a CTWD will vapourise the wire and be too 'hot'. Imagine a fuse exploding... same thing.

I can't comment on a lot of the machines out there, as I've never used them. Some I see have some scary stuff going on with them. One I looked at has a 10A plug fitted to a machine that idles away at an effective current of 30A... 3x higher than the circuit breaker in your power box, and well and truly in the melty wire / electrical fire red-zone...

Shoot me thru via pm something that might interest you and I can offer an opinion.

Also if you don't mind buying used, keep an eye out for something that is a quality brand, operational and recently serviced... they do come up, and can be good pricing.

[Disco-tastic]

Yes, it's quite different - a spool gun feels and acts differently in your hand. I haven't done a heap but used a mates. I am lucky enough to be able to bring an HF AC TIG machine home from work when required which is about once a year.

Start with arc and get a feel for that as it is much more forgiving than other forms of welding. As Toxic said, MIG requires clean metal and good prep whereas you can weld straight through all sorts of crap like rust and scale with an arc (although this isn't recommended). Also, you can make a great looking bead of weld with a MIG and get almost no penatration into the base metal if you don't know what you're doing. Get a heap of scrap steel and start practicing - there's no substitute. [emoji106]I meant is there a difference in technique between mig welding mild steel and aluminium (apart from the setup changes like gas/wire), but that is good to know.

I have a really old arc welder to practice with, to try and get straight beads and steady speed. I will keep practicing with that while I research.

[Homestar]

I meant is there a difference in technique between mig welding mild steel and aluminium (apart from the setup changes like gas/wire), but that is good to know.

I have a really old arc welder to practice with, to try and get straight beads and steady speed. I will keep practicing with that while I research.

That’s a good idea - if you can get a half decent weld on old (probably AC) machine you’ll love welding with a modern DC inverter machine. [emoji106]

Smooooooth.... [emoji16]

[ozscott]

Yep I went from an AC to a quality DC and it was night and day. Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

Its mainly cold starting that I find hard to do - it always sticks. Its not so bad when the metal is hot.

Anyway I dropped by Sydney tools today and asks some questions - turns out the Cigweld above doesn't come with a tig torch, and the only suitable torch they have in store is $200, so that makes it a $500 tig machine. For $580 they will sell me this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/04/538.jpg

Which includes a tig torch, a pulse capability, the option of foot pedal control and 2T/4T settings. So I think this is now top of my list, even though its a smidge more than I want to spend, plus i need to buy shields, tungsten and filler rod, oh and gas. But I think apart from aluminium it will do more than what I need or want.

As an side, what arc welding rods do people recommend for mild steel. I currently have these GP rods:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/04/539.jpg

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice :)

Dan

[Disco-tastic]

And yes I have a 15A plug :)

[ozscott]

I don't weld for a living. For me WIA rods are the bees knees. Love using their mild steel rods.

Cheers

[Toxic_Avenger]

Those rods would be fine for mild steel work. E6013's are easy to weld with and are a decent weld for non critical jobs (if hydrogen cracking is a concern, use a low hydrogen E7016 or E7018 if you need more goombah (the 7018'sa re an iron powder rod)
Just cook them in the oven before use to dry out any moisture in them if they've been sitting around a while.

DC pulse can be good to limit your heat input, so that's a plus for that machine.
IIRC a heap of the pipe welders on a project I visited were using them.

[Disco-tastic]

I don't weld for a living. For me WIA rods are the bees knees. Love using their mild steel rods.

CheersWhat are wia rods? Just the brand?

[Homestar]

Its mainly cold starting that I find hard to do - it always sticks. Its not so bad when the metal is hot.

Anyway I dropped by Sydney tools today and asks some questions - turns out the Cigweld above doesn't come with a tig torch, and the only suitable torch they have in store is $200, so that makes it a $500 tig machine. For $580 they will sell me this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/04/538.jpg

Which includes a tig torch, a pulse capability, the option of foot pedal control and 2T/4T settings. So I think this is now top of my list, even though is a smidge more than I want to spend, plus i need to buy shields, tungsten and fuller rod, oh and gas. But I think apart from aluminium it will do more than what I need or want.

As an side, what arc welding rods do people recommend for mild steel. I currently have these GP rods:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/04/539.jpg

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice :)

Dan

It's called Unimig, but it doesn't do MIG. Personally I use MIG a lot more than TIG, so if I were spending the money I'd go for something different. MIG is better for welding car panels, thing chassis sections etc. What is your main aim and work you'll be considering?

[Homestar]

Regarding starting the weld, dragging the stick into the area you want to start can help, but it is mainly down to practice. My new machine has a VRD on it (voltage reducing device which lowers the voltage at the electrode when not in use for safety) but this also makes it a little harder to start than an older style machine so I've gone back to dragging the electrode more these days to drop the VRD out quickly when starting a weld.

[fitzy]

How thin can you weld with it?

1.6mm if your careful

[Tins]

Their machine quality might not be better but I'd expect their after sales and parts support to be better, as they have a reputation to keep.



What I know about welding could be written in Swahili in the head of a pimple, but I DO know that reputations are a thing of the past. CIG was a very well respected company, back in the days of Commonwealth Industrial Gasses. These days it's right up there with Miller Falls ( old Yank power tool maker ), Black and Decker ( Ditto ), any number of HiFi names. All fallen to the marketing might of our trading "partners" to the north. It seems even Makita have fallen. Names no longer mean anything.

Reputations mean nothing.

OK, I'm sure that some exceptions exist, but for how long?

[Tins]

Sweet. Something I can write about with my morning coffee.

Machine selection
I'm biased to a big red brand, but there are a lot of good machines out there. The ebay cheapies need to be treated as ebay cheapies, so keep that in mind for longevity and parts availability long(er) term.
That being said, even the big suppliers will hold parts for 10 years or so after the machine is discontinued, so there is a limit. Your budget and level of use will dictate.

Process selection
Not all processes (MIG/STICK/TIG) are equal. Stick is easy to get into, no gas needed, but lots of cleanup of slag etc. Can be very resilient to surface contamination. MIG is fast, can be run with a shielding gas with a solid core wire like an ER70S-6 spec, or 'gasless' with a flux-cored wire like an E71T spec (be careful, some gasless wires are single pass only...). Surface prep is important, as there is very little in the way of oxidants in the wire to carry away crap from your base metal to the surface of your weld pool.
TIG is the NASA spec welding process- everything need to be clean AF. You'd want to be able to eat your lunch off it. Fitup will ideally involve cutting, beveling, sanding and cleaning with acetone or similar to prep before even getting the welder turned on. So rusty work is not an ideal TIG candidate without a lot of prep.

Power source
Stick / TIG uses a constant current output, so you'll be able to tig (albeit scratch start) on even the cheapest little stick welders with a suitable torch.
This is opposed to MIG which is constant voltage output, and has extra magic inside to allow a 'multiprocess' power source capable of doing both CC and CV. Then you get into the world of the suitcase wire feeders which are fed CC from a engine drive unit, then switch it to allow MIG output.
Quality can vary... a welder is essentially a gearbox for power out of your wall... so it's level of efficiency, quality (smoothness) of output and lifespan come into play. 240V AC comes in, magic happens, and you get a DC output, Constant Current (CC) for Stick/tig, and Constant Voltage (CV) for MIG. Then there is the quality of the synergic maps that the machine uses to ramp up current/voltage, and choke short circuit current spike conditions in dip transfer...
TL;DR, buy what you can afford and justify getting value out of for your level of use.

Features
What's a nice to have and a must have? Keep in mind- is this machine making you your living, or is it something that you dig out of the shed for a play once a month?
Duty cycle- this reflects in part how efficient the machine is in converting your 240V into a welding output. Inverter machines chop and change the AC waveform to make a nice welding output, but this comes at the expense of power losses and heat... and the circuitry inside the machine can only handle so much heat before it ultimately melts into a puddle on the shed floor. 100% duty cycle would be nice, BUT unless you are literally a robot, you'll never reach the duty cycle. Aim for somewhere between 30 and 60% duty cycle at a current level which is honest for the kind of work you are doing- and clarify what the stated duty cycle is measured at. eg 60% @ 120A would be fine for a home gamer, but this might be a 180A machine, and be good for 30% duty cycle at 175A...
Accessories- Ensure you get what you need in the box to start welding. Commonly you can expect to get a MIG gun, earth clamp, a gas hose, some wire feed rolls (for MIG), a regulator.
Spec sheets- ensure you check / compare machines based off their spec sheets- if a supplier can't offer all the technical details of the machine, then consider them either a seller of crap goods, or someone who doesn't know their product. You wnat to know things like duty cycle at a given current output, input voltage (including a variance factor if you plan to run it off a smaller generator), output current (or voltage) range, operating temperature range, IP factor, weights and dimensions, and any applicable standards the machine meets...
Warranty / service- Find out what recourse you have with a faulty machine. They can and do break, like any other man-made thing. Also look at spares availability after the warranty period- many smaller companies will not hold an inventory of spares, so be wary.

DC TIG welding aluminium
I have not tried this, but there is myth and folklore spoken by crusty old boilies from the dark ages. Days where a TIG would cost 5x the yearly salary of the workshop foreman, machines of metal and Iron which required the building to be built around it on 10" thick reinforced concrete footings... Some say it is possible with DC for thick sections using Pure helium shielding gas. These days, with helium being a dwindling resource, the shielding gas would cost as much a couple of decent AC TIG machines... Interesting reading starts here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Helium_Reserve)if you are interested. If we (as humankind) were to put an accurate value on our helium reserves (ie for use in real useful technologies like cooling MRI machines etc), than the real cost of A helium filled party balloon would be about $300.

AC TIG for aluminium
Cheap ebay machines can be had from a couple of hundred, honest home / light fab machines start at approx $1200, a whizz-bang unit from the big manufacturers would set you back about $4K or more. You get what you pay for in these machines, it's equivalnet to watching a video in 240P vs 4K resolution. High end machines have AC pulse, and the welder can dictate where the AC waveforms sits relative to the 0V line (AC Balance), and then stipulate things like pulse time, background current, pulse ON time down to the poofteenth of a second, with a pulse rate of up to 200Hz (200 pulses per second...) I dream of something like this...

Machine country of origin
There was mention of 'cheap mass produced chinese stuff'. The unfortunate reality is that this is where most welding power sources are made. It's economies of scale and comsumer price points which dictate this. Most big brands have 80% of their range made in such places. Those who want higher quality and a given country of origin will have the option, but WELL out of the price range of a home gamer. Fronius, and EWM are two high end manufacturers who have in-country manufacturing, but these machine are an incredibly premium product. The rest are either partly or wholly made in china.



Yeah, can be quite involved, but have an idea of what you are comfortable to spend based on your usage of the machine (and what it'll realistically save you if you were to get the work done professionally by someone else) and be comfortable in having a throw-away unit if something does go wrong with a cheap unit. Mainly, get amongst it, have a crack and 'lay some sick beads' as the apprentices say.

Great post. I wish I understood 1/100th of it. One question though: Re TIG: if you ate your lunch off it, wouldn't you have to clean it again.... [bigwhistle]

Actually, you remind me of a question re degassing AC. I'll post it.

[ozscott]

What are wia rods? Just the brand?Yes m8. A brand. Cheers

[101 Ron]

If the use of the machine is going to be welding up rust in a old series 3 at home with someone with limited welding experience............why TIG ?
MIG is easy to use and when used with gas fills holes in very thin metal well.
TIG uses skills which take along time to aquire and is a poor choice for rust repair due to the need for clean work, skill ,speed and heat distorsion.
MIG with gas, wire and and piece inner liner change gives a option of alloy welding .............mainly for fabrication with the minimum skills needed.
Nothing beats MIG for steel rust repair and ease of use at a reasonable price.

[Don 130]

I have Unimig 180 at home, a very good machine, and I've just ordered a Unimig viper 182 for small maintenance jobs at work. Unimig claim they will provide parts for 15 years after production of a model has finished.
Don.

[Disco-tastic]

If the use of the machine is going to be welding up rust in a old series 3 at home with someone with limited welding experience............why TIG ?
MIG is easy to use and when used with gas fills holes in very thin metal well.
TIG uses skills which take along time to aquire and is a poor choice for rust repair due to the need for clean work, skill ,speed and heat distorsion.
MIG with gas, wire and and piece inner liner change gives a option of alloy welding .............mainly for fabrication with the minimum skills needed.
Nothing beats MIG for steel rust repair and ease of use at a reasonable price.As the corner of the door frame is kinda holey, my intention was to deskin the door, brace the frame, cut out the rust and weld in new plate and weld up, a bit like George Carellas and his old Rangie on S.O.A.P . he MIGs stuff, but I figure I will be cutting and prepping the steel so either mig or tig would work. I also thought I'd get a better weld with tig - most times I've seen mig used (in videos) on thin metal it has been a series of tacks which are then ground back, though I'm sure part of this is to reduce heat warpage.

I have picked up the impression elsewhere that mig is only used over DC/AC tig when speed is important I.e. long welds, otherwise, tig is preferred.

To be honest, I also want to learn tig!

[Disco-tastic]

Also, just for entertainment, here's a guy dual wielding mig torches:
MAN WITH EPIC WELDING SKILLS ?? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/flHXrJSbzMI)

[Slunnie]

What are wia rods? Just the brand?


Yes m8. A brand. Cheers

I bought 5x WIA MIGs for work. These are the most reliable and easy to use MIG's I've seen. Seems WIA are generally great products, though not the cheapest.

[Homestar]

As the corner of the door frame is kinda holey, my intention was to deskin the door, brace the frame, cut out the rust and weld in new plate and weld up, a bit like George Carellas and his old Rangie on S.O.A.P . he MIGs stuff, but I figure I will be cutting and prepping the steel so either mig or tig would work. I also thought I'd get a better weld with tig - most times I've seen mig used (in videos) on thin metal it has been a series of tacks which are then ground back, though I'm sure part of this is to reduce heat warpage.

I have picked up the impression elsewhere that mig is only used over DC/AC tig when speed is important I.e. long welds, otherwise, tig is preferred.

To be honest, I also want to learn tig!

There's no dramas wanting to learn TIG, but MIG will do everything you want faster, easier and cheaper. If you get a machine that can do MMA and MIG, it will do TIG, but if you leave out MIG when buying a machine, I think you will regret it. Don't discount just learning scratch TIG - it's an easy and cheap way of getting into TIG. You don't need anything fancy like HF start or pedals to TIG weld steel.

[goingbush]

I had a mig years ago & sold it due to not doing enough welding to justify the gas bottle , ( I prefer stick to gasless) but recently I had to be doing a bit of welding on 1.5mm sheet for the battery boxes on my Electric LandRover conversion.

Everything has to be inspected by VASS engineer any my trusty handbag stick welder was not going to cut the mustard. EV Battery boxes and mountings must withstand 20G in frontal impact.

Time to buy another Mig, especially now that you can get a D size bottle from Bunnings for $200 deposit , never pay rent , just get your $200 back when/if you hand the bottle back. just Swap 'n go for refills. yay.

I snagged one of these for $235 , not bad since the buy it now price is $750

Mig welder200amp MIG200S lotos Inverter Gas/Gasless with free Helmet | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mig-welder200amp-MIG200S-lotos-Inverter-Gas-Gasless-with-free-Helmet/253571195815?hash=item3b0a0563a7:g:SpIAAOSwYIxX2TW G)

For that price is the best welder Ive ever used, and the engineer did not bat an eyelid at the welding.

[uninformed]

I bought 5x WIA MIGs for work. These are the most reliable and easy to use MIG's I've seen. Seems WIA are generally great products, though not the cheapest.

Slunnie, how long ago? They use to be all Australian made, now at least some of them are Chinese made. Not happy

[Slunnie]

Slunnie, how long ago? They use to be all Australian made, now at least some of them are Chinese made. Not happy
Just under 2 years ago now. These machines are used and abused all day and have never been touched, not even the guns, with the exception of one that has just recently developed an intermittent fault that presents like a duty cycle problem... but isn't.

WIA 270C are the machines
Weldmatic 270C | MIG Light Industrial | Equipment | WIA (https://www.welding.com.au/equipment/view/weldmatic-270c)

[Disco-tastic]

...I snagged one of these for $235 , not bad since the buy it now price is $750

Mig welder200amp MIG200S lotos Inverter Gas/Gasless with free Helmet | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mig-welder200amp-MIG200S-lotos-Inverter-Gas-Gasless-with-free-Helmet/253571195815?hash=item3b0a0563a7:g:SpIAAOSwYIxX2TW G)

For that price is the best welder Ive ever used, and the engineer did not bat an eyelid at the welding.

That one you linked went for less than $250 delivered. What do you get in the box? Or maybe a better question, what do you need to buy to get started?

[goingbush]

That one you linked went for less than $250 delivered. What do you get in the box? Or maybe a better question, what do you need to buy to get started?

I had to buy a Gas regulator, $75.00 Bunnings but you can get them cheaper on Ebay . It came with a small spool of wire which I have not used , I bought a 5kg spool from local industrial supplier.

[uninformed]

I had to buy a Gas regulator, $75.00 Bunnings but you can get them cheaper on Ebay . It came with a small spool of wire which I have not used , I bought a 5kg spool from local industrial supplier.


I am not a welder!

I bought my MIG first (BOC/Kemppi 250c) Then I bought the litte BOC/Kemppi 140 inverter stick/TIG. MIG is easiest but If doing it again Id probaby just buy the stick/TIG (back then there werent any stick/TIG/MIG readably available.

reason is no gas needed for stick. Small unit takes little room. Stick can weld a multitude of materials in different conditions. And TIG can cover all the delicate stuff. It is harder but you will become a better welder if you persevere with it. I really need to do more and do it with a pro to get the CORRECT tips...

[Kidbeen]

I am on a Metalwork forum and the members rate the following company highly. They also have a five year warranty.

Our High School enquired about a MMA welder and they suggested one that was in the $300 range discounted down from $700 odd dollars, that also had Mig and Tig capabilities.


Welding Supplies Online Store Tokentools New Equipment Sales Service Australia Sydney Gosford Newcastle Brisbane Melbourne Adelaide Perth Hobart Darwin (https://www.tokentools.com.au)

[ozscott]

Kidbeen which model was it?

Cheers

[ozscott]

I suspect the TIG you were recommended was a DC lift arc machine which would be fine for mild and stainless steel but pretty much useless on alluminium.

Cheers

[Toxic_Avenger]

pretty much useless on alluminium.


Fixed that for you...

[Kidbeen]

Kidbeen which model was it?

Cheers

Tig Arc Inverter Welder - 200 Amps - Miniarc 200 STLIt is a Stick and Tig. No Mig.

[ozscott]

Yes so DC TIG and unless you are a gun welder in perfect conditions you can't weld alli with that (i have seen it done...workable in a pinch but not pretty).

Cheers

[trout1105]

I bought a small gasless mig welder about 10 years ago that is still working perfectly (the ones that take those small rolls of wire) and it has paid for itself 20x over fixing up exhausts and panels around the farm over the years But the blasted spools are expensive and they always seem to run out at the most inopportune times and being gasless it is pretty much impossible to weld in any sort of wind.
I recently bought an inverter stick welder to replace my aging old CIG stick welder and I simply love the thing, Light highly portable and it lays a nice weld [thumbsupbig]

[Toxic_Avenger]

Golden rule for MIG wire, gasless or solid core, is the larger the spool, the better the cost per kilo.
Last I checked, a 0.5KG spool of Cigweld shield-cor 15 (E71T) wire was about $35.
You'd get a 5kg spool for approx $100 (10x more wire, for ~3x the price)
A full size 12.5KG spool is about the 200 mark...

So when you're burning lots of wire, don't shoot yourself in the foot with a machine that is limited by spool size (if you have the option).

[Slunnie]

Golden rule for MIG wire, gasless or solid core, is the larger the spool, the better the cost per kilo.
Last I checked, a 0.5KG spool of Cigweld shield-cor 15 (E71T) wire was about $35.
You'd get a 5kg spool for approx $100 (10x more wire, for ~3x the price)
A full size 12.5KG spool is about the 200 mark...

So when you're burning lots of wire, don't shoot yourself in the foot with a machine that is limited by spool size (if you have the option).

What! Thats way too much. I'll have to check our billing, but I'm pretty sure we're paying $50-60 per 15kg spool at BOC. It may be our account though. We pay $8-20 or bottle of the various gasses but get a monthly bottle charge also.

[bee utey]

What! Thats way too much. I'll have to check our billing, but I'm pretty sure we're paying $50-60 per 15kg spool at BOC. It may be our account though. We pay $8-20 or bottle of the various gasses but get a monthly bottle charge also.

$60 sounds about right for 15kg of solid wire, gasless would be much more, surely.

GASLESS MIG WELDING WIRE 0.8MM X 15KG SPOOL | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GASLESS-MIG-WELDING-WIRE-0-8MM-X-15KG-SPOOL/182278584804?hash=item2a70a679e4:g:uqoAAOSwGtRX1iY 7)

[Slunnie]

Ahhh my applogies, I didn't read it properly and we do use solid core, not flux core.

[chrisw]

Most of the Chinese made caddies seem ok. I have had good use out of trade tools and unimig caddies in ship repair work. I have a 'wsm 200' which I got from Grays about 10 years ago and it still going good. This is an early inverter stick,DC scratch tig. I have started repairing a defender bulkhead with the tig but it is very difficult to get clean enough to not get any porosity, pulling crap from the back of the welds that cannot be got to. I have gone back to a unimig mig unit which needs more grinding with a flapper to clean up but overall better. I have not done any ally with the mig but that is another advantage of having a inverter mig over DC tig.
Cheers

[oztayls]

A 10Amp machine is fine. It also gives you more portability options as 15A is not widely available. Have a look at the Unimig Viper, which is what I have. It should do everything you need it to do, aluminium, stainless etc.

[lardy]

I just purchased two Power Craft 131......as advised by my boiler makers, 10amp and can burn through 16TC ‘s all day.

We have more expensive caddy’s and there go to is the power craft as 10amp outlets are easier to find in our plants.

We get a pretty good price on them.

Oh we don’t use the TIG function.....I bought a Lincoln gas/ gasless/mig/rig 180 for $1000 from Blackwoods good bit of kit.

[mikek]

The BOC 180 or 175 mig cant remember what it is are really very stunning little welders, they only use the 5kg spool but how much welding do you really do at home, spray transfer out of a little welder or turn it right down for panel steel, also self setting with adjustments, gas is cheapr as you will use more with the tig
I know its not a TIG

[ozrob]

I asked the same question at work on which is a good welding machine, both professional welders said get a Kemppi...."the price is forgotten long after quality remains"
So I bought the Kemppi MinarcMig Evo 200, Ultimate energy performance with portable comfort - Kemppi (https://www.kemppi.com/en-US/offering/product/minarcmig-evo-200/) bloody nice welder, I learned to use a MIG during my apprenticeship an have been using welders of different types for the last 30 years, when my CIG 135 mig died, it needed replacing.
The Evo will weld up to 12 mm plate and down to 1mm. Fully automatic option for metal thickness and also has a manual option.
Just bite the bullet and get one. put away around $1.9K

[Toxic_Avenger]

The BOC 180 or 175 mig cant remember what it is are really very stunning little welders, they only use the 5kg spool but how much welding do you really do at home, spray transfer out of a little welder or turn it right down for panel steel, also self setting with adjustments, gas is cheapr as you will use more with the tig
I know its not a TIG

MIG should be around 12LPM flow, TIG about 7LPM.
YMMV due to environmental factors, of course.

^^^Can confirm, welds rather well in spray in 0.8, 0.9 works a treat, the new model can do Aluminium via a spool gun, or pulse MIG without.

[Tote]

I'll put up my story for reference. I have done a bit of Oxy and stick welding over the years on projects, having done a TAFE course after I left school that covered the basics of both. I bought an oxy kit as I prefer using it for lighter stuff but soon found that bottle rental was costing me far more than the value I was getting from the rig with occasional use (and oxy is pretty old fashioned these days)

I am restoring a series 1 so the ability to weld aluminium was a skill that I thought would be useful so I signed up for a year of welding at my local TAFE and elected to do TIG as it is a bit more analogous with using the OXY than MIG. After the course I bought a AC/DC tig 200 machine from weldsmart ( who seem to have disappeared from the face of the earth). The welder was about $1400 from memory and it has served me well both as a TIG and a stick welder. These machines are available these days for about $1000 - $1200 and are all chinese made and badged with everything from BOC to Rossi brands. If you find a reputable retailer they should be OK.

I have been frustrated by the speed of the TIG sometimes on steel fabrication jobs when I don't want to use the stick and am casually looking for a reasonable MIG unit but am yet to find one when I have a pocket full of money, although there are plenty about on ebay etc.

I own a size D bottle which seems to suit my use and I get it filled with straight argon so I can do aluminium or steel.

Regards,
Tote

[raffynn]

Hi, I think what you need to take into account here is that with TIG welding the surfaces need to be absolutely clean, there is better control and all that, but clean surfaces is what will get it done. (I joined 1mm stainless into a catch can). Any wind and you stop. As for Al, AC is used because on the plus cycle it cleans the Al, the rate of cycle is usually adjustable. Having said all that, I am NOT an expert at this. Raffynn

[Disco-tastic]

Thanks everyone for your stories and advice. I have just found out my mate with the mig has both a mig and a tig machine, both which I think are semi- or full professional, and he's said I can borrow one of them for a few weeks.

Having used a mig before I'm going to give the TIG a go (if he has gas) and see what I prefer. Then I can get a smaller machine for home, with the option of heading over to his place for trickier jobs.

Cheers

Dan

[Robflocar]

I did some professional welding with oxy and stick back in the 1960's and have welded at home and farm ever since. But years ago bought an $800 Italian MIG. Couldn't get it to work. One of my workers had a lot of MIG experience couldn't get it to work properly either. So took it to the tip. Bought a UNIMIG 200 for $1200 in 2006. Have welded very little with it and had it to the repairers 3 times for a total cost of $800. In the end they suggested a new control board at $300. I got them to set it for thin body sheet and used it about twice and now it won't work again. I have realed more rustry wire off the first and only big spool than I have used over 12 years. So it will also go to the dump. Cheap Bunning bottles are the way to go for home use. Now I want a TIG to weld cast. Yes I can weld it with my 44 year old stick welder still going strong with no expense other than a new cables and hand piece years ago. Yes I can bronze weld the cast with my oxy set. But thought a TIG/MIG would be a good replacement for the MIG. I have been told that AC/DC machine is best if I want to weld aluminium as well as cast. The Unimig Viper does look ok but it is the Unimig part that has me worried.

[rick130]

Now I want a TIG to weld cast.


Iron, steel or ally?

[ozscott]

I am not a welder but I have welded a tractor that was cast iron with an inverter DC MMAW and rods to suit. The trick seems to be to thoroughly heat the area first.

Cheers

[Robflocar]

Iron, steel or ally?

100 year old iron. And a lot of it.

[trout1105]

I did some professional welding with oxy and stick back in the 1960's and have welded at home and farm ever since. But years ago bought an $800 Italian MIG. Couldn't get it to work. One of my workers had a lot of MIG experience couldn't get it to work properly either. So took it to the tip. Bought a UNIMIG 200 for $1200 in 2006. Have welded very little with it and had it to the repairers 3 times for a total cost of $800. In the end they suggested a new control board at $300. I got them to set it for thin body sheet and used it about twice and now it won't work again. I have realed more rustry wire off the first and only big spool than I have used over 12 years. So it will also go to the dump. Cheap Bunning bottles are the way to go for home use. Now I want a TIG to weld cast. Yes I can weld it with my 44 year old stick welder still going strong with no expense other than a new cables and hand piece years ago. Yes I can bronze weld the cast with my oxy set. But thought a TIG/MIG would be a good replacement for the MIG. I have been told that AC/DC machine is best if I want to weld aluminium as well as cast. The Unimig Viper does look ok but it is the Unimig part that has me worried.

You can use your 44 year old stick welder for your cast iron jobs [thumbsupbig]
3.2mm Cast Iron Welding Rods from The Welders Warehouse (https://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/cast-iron-welding-rods-x-3.2mm.html)

[Robflocar]

I am not a welder but I have welded a tractor that was cast iron with an inverter DC MMAW and rods to suit. The trick seems to be to thoroughly heat the area first.

Cheers

Yep me to, but this is a 100 year old tractor that end up in a river 70 years ago, when hot. Cracked and broken all over the place. It is rarish and is to be displayed in a museum. Running probably not. Just cleaned a heap of silt out of the sump.

[Toxic_Avenger]

I am not a welder but I have welded a tractor that was cast iron with an inverter DC MMAW and rods to suit. The trick seems to be to thoroughly heat the area first.

Cheers


You can use your 44 year old stick welder for your cast iron jobs [thumbsupbig]
3.2mm Cast Iron Welding Rods from The Welders Warehouse (https://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/cast-iron-welding-rods-x-3.2mm.html)

Yeah, nickel rids ain't cheap.
I've had the "pleasure" of using some NiFe rods, they burn fast as heck, leave a pornographic smooth rippled bead, and the weld deposit has plenty of ductility to weather the movements of a hot, cooling cast iron... but $500+ for a 3kg can... You'd really want to justify the repair.

I've heard of plenty of prep on the crack, lots of preheat and a low hydrogen E7016 with a slow cool down also being used. But you wont find that in any welding procedure.

[rick130]

100 year old iron. And a lot of it.

Yeow.

[Homestar]

Yeah, nickel rids ain't cheap.
I've had the "pleasure" of using some NiFe rods, they burn fast as heck, leave a pornographic smooth rippled bead, and the weld deposit has plenty of ductility to weather the movements of a hot, cooling cast iron... but $500+ for a 3kg can... You'd really want to justify the repair.

I've heard of plenty of prep on the crack, lots of preheat and a low hydrogen E7016 with a slow cool down also being used. But you wont find that in any welding procedure.

Had a nice chunk of those given to me a few years back. Still have some left - didn’t realise they were so expensive or I would have charged for the repairs I did for people with them. Used most of them at work some time back repairing an old tractor[emoji51]

Also was given a full box of stainless rods too which are just gorgeous to weld with.

[granny]

Yeah, nickel rids ain't cheap.
I've had the "pleasure" of using some NiFe rods, they burn fast as heck, leave a pornographic smooth rippled bead, and the weld deposit has plenty of ductility to weather the movements of a hot, cooling cast iron... but $500+ for a 3kg can... You'd really want to justify the repair.

I've heard of plenty of prep on the crack, lots of preheat and a low hydrogen E7016 with a slow cool down also being used. But you wont find that in any welding procedure.

this is how i was told how to weld certain types of cast iron in my apprentiship but to also pein the weld with a needle gun and put in a container of lime to cool slowly. i have also tried to weld some cast with 7016's and NiFe rods and wouldn't weld and had to braze weld with an oxy. I have never welded cast with a tig.
As for welder choice for home use each process has its place and the average person won't be able to do everything with one machine.
Tig will take a lot of practice to get proficient at especially if welding into or around corners or on thin used steel as with landy door frames but would be fine on chassis repairs but will be slow while learning and difficult to tack things up with needing 2 hands to weld with. Also i would not worry to much about the pulse function it is more of a specialized process.
Stick welding will be hard to do on that sort of work or anything under 1.6-2mm unless fit up is perfect and electrode control is spot on with speed and arc gap needing to be constant welding these thinner thicknesses. All possible but lots of practice needed. Would also be fine for chassis repairs and quicker but a lot comes down to electrode choice as well.
Mig would be my choice for work at home as you can weld panel steel and up to probably 8mm with a 180-200 amp machine. Get a gasless wire if your concerned about the cost of gas, cylinder rental or welding in the wind. But with a mig you will need more spare parts such as tips, gas difusers, gas shrouds, gun liners, wire guides and feed rollers.
For this reason if you buy a mig i would avoid ebay no name brands and buy through a local distributor to get spare parts. The same goes with a tig torch, you need to be able to get collets, shrouds, etc to suit your torch. The stick shouldn't need spare parts other than earth clamps,leads and electrode holder. Also you will need a different gas for mig and tig.
As you can see it is not just as simple as going out and buying any welder and welding everything you want. If you can use your mates gear give all the process a go and see what you think. Tig will require the most skill and coordination and give great satisfaction if you master it, stick takes practice as well and when the slag peels off by itself from a weld for the first time you will be doing a fist pump for sure. Mig will be the easiest to get a handle on but still needs practice.
Its a tough choice with a limited budget and while it would be nice to get a machine with all the bells and whistles they cost a lot of money. Most migs worth buying are probably out of your price range of $500 but that viper unimig machine you posted earlier would be good value and reasonable quality for a tig/stick machine

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Instead of starting a new thread I will piggyback on this one. Two of the well known brands back in the 1980s when I first learnt to weld were CIG & Lincoln. Just wondering if they still have a good reputation?

The work the welder will do will range from sheet metal for floor panel rust repairs, chequer plate for floor of the tray back ute, tray sheet metal side repairs, and hollow section of different shapes to make the frame of a trailer. Price range I am thinking of is from $1000 to $1800.

A preliminary dip of a toe into the market on eBay found two examples that I can remember the company's name...

Cigweld Weldskill 250Amp Mig Welder - W1004500 1,199.00 The WeldSkill 250 is a single phase compact power source designed specifically for the handy-person or tradesmen that requires high quality welding performance

or

Lincoln Electric PowerMig 180C Mig Welder 180amp - POWERMIG180C $1,095.00. Described as The compact and reliable Power MIG 180C by Lincoln Electric is a portable welding machine with superior arc performance. It is designed for light industrial applications, it may be utilised in the workshop, site maintenance work, vehicle repairs and in agricultural applications. Recommended for use in both MIG/MAG applications for Gas or Innershield gasless flux cored welding.

I do not mind going out an buying my own gas cylinder. Apart from the CIG and the Lincoln are there any other reputable brands with good after-sales parts service within my price range that anyone would recommend?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Homestar]

IMO Lincoln yes, CIG no.

[Lionelgee]

IMO Lincoln yes, CIG no.

Hello Homestar,

Thanks for the reply, it is much appreciated.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[350RRC]

Yeah, nickel rids ain't cheap.
I've had the "pleasure" of using some NiFe rods, they burn fast as heck, leave a pornographic smooth rippled bead, and the weld deposit has plenty of ductility to weather the movements of a hot, cooling cast iron... but $500+ for a 3kg can... You'd really want to justify the repair.

I've heard of plenty of prep on the crack, lots of preheat and a low hydrogen E7016 with a slow cool down also being used. But you wont find that in any welding procedure.

I'm no expert, but now have no probs welding cast with an old CIG stick welder using Ni Fe rods .

Clean the joint with a grinder, crank it up full, couple of tacks then do it all in one hit.

Done everything from 1/8 th thick handle on an old wine bottle decorker to the mounting lugs on a MF 165 steering box.

DL

[Disco-tastic]

What do people know of euromig? I can't find any documentation in English (all the web pages are German) but thought I should check before completely dismissing it.

I'm now hoping to find a decent second hand MIG/MAG machine. I'm not really in any rush so hopefully something will pop up.

[rangieman]

What do people know of euromig? I can't find any documentation in English (all the web pages are German) but thought I should check before completely dismissing it.

I'm now hoping to find a decent second hand MIG/MAG machine. I'm not really in any rush so hopefully something will pop up.
I got a 250 Amp UniMig secondhand off Fleabay a couple of years ago for around the $600.00 mark been brilliant for my home handy man stuff .
Can say i use it maybe 3 to 4 + times a month , i use gas as i brought my own E size bottle which cost half as much as the welder but has paid for it`s self in rental cost[thumbsupbig]
Previously i had a cig handimig gasless (and gas if needed) and i always found it wanting [bighmmm]
Never looked back with the Unimig with just a few consumable`s as tip`s shroud`s and a liner over time [wink11]
It is fit for my purpose maybe not for every ones taste [smilebigeye]

[Disco-tastic]

So long story not so long...

I bought a mig second hand off eBay. It was a weldcorp (rebadged Italian awelco) for $210 off eBay, thinking I'd snagged a bargain. When I picked it up it didn't have any leads or torch, so not so much of a bargain. Turns out the listing wasn't clear at all, so seller offered a refund, which I took.

So I kept looking and found a new AC/DC tig welder for $500. AIG TIG200 (https://www.australiaindustrialgroup.com.au/product-page/aig-tig200-ac-dc-digital-inverter-mma-welding-machine)

Now I am fully aware that mig is easier, and faster, but I've always wanted to learn tig and if this machine is even half decent at its price point its exactly what I want. Im only a DIY/hobbyist and I'm sure a professional or prosumer would find fault with this machine, but if it does whait I want I'm a happy little vegemite. Parts are available in Australia if something does bust, and all the reviews I've read (from home hobbyists, mind you) are positive. The company have been great to deal with too.

I only just got the machine today and probably won't have time to play with it for a few weeks but I will post up what I think when I get a chance.

Thanks everyone for your assistance and opinions. I am grateful for the sounding board to bounce my thoughts off.

Cheers

Dan

[1950landy]

142156I bought this one just set the width of the weld & power & it does the rest.142155 can be used either wit gas or flux core. I find it better with gas other wise you need to chip weld same as stick welding. When we had our steel & alum fabrication business we always got a good run out of the Kemppi machines.

[bee utey]

UltraTech | Tactical Welder (https://www.spillcontainment.com/products/tactical-welder/)

[Toxic_Avenger]

I'll pack one on my next remote trip. Right next to my tactical shoelaces.

[ozscott]

For AC TIG I am taken by the Renegade 200 amp. Very cheap for an AC Pulse TIG. One review said in reality it didn't go as low as the dial said for pulse frequency namely 0.5 Hertz and was more like up to 3. So I have asked TradeTOols the question and they are getting onto their supplier for me. Excellent service those guys. Comes with foot pedal. All for under $800 clams.

I know...not known brand but about 500 to 600 cheaper than Unimig Razorweld and both Chinese. Tradetools do back their gear well too.

[ozscott]

I thought about running straight clean helium on my DC LIft Arc Esseti but prefer slower and cleaner for thin sheet alloy. Cheers

[ozscott]

Ok bought the TIG but need Ar now...not a.cheap exercise. Will buy a bottle I think. Heavy machine the Renegade. 32kg for an inverter gives some confidence. Cheers
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181203/c323751594f4f9f22ad6120f2ee11780.jpg

[Disco-tastic]

Ok bought the TIG but need Ar now...not a.cheap exercise. Will buy a bottle I think. Heavy machine the Renegade. 32kg for an inverter gives some confidence. Cheers
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181203/c323751594f4f9f22ad6120f2ee11780.jpgArgh where were you a few months ago! [emoji14]

The included foot pedal plus pulse function is worth the $370 premium over mine. Other than that the specs seem similar.

Keen to see how it goes!

[ozscott]

Mate it looks pretty much identical to the Unimig except better duty cycle and half the price without taking into account the footpedal. Tradetools sell shed loads. They dont see them come back. Cheers
Ps. Correction...a third the price.

[Disco-tastic]

So i have finally had a chance to try the rig function on my welder. I'm a look new to this I'm literally fiddling with settings until something works.

Here are done pics of my second go. Settings are 60amps, 1.6mm tungsten and filler rod, 1.6mm steel. I'm pretty happy with it for second go. I blew some holes in the corners but could fill them in ok. I also forgot to turn the gas on at the start haha :wallbash:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190103/5d6913bfd607da0a326eac1ab23e2311.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190103/69f582c3254314d7ab354a4f4fe377ed.jpg

I also tried the ac function with same settings (no filler yet). Is this sound normal? (https://youtu.be/ECGuwL6fS3A)

Here is a picture of the a.c. tests. They look ok? Dc is much, much smoother. I dont have any aluminium to test with yet.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190104/706dd26a9d705192d0d10ef184d07b0c.jpg

Provided that a.c. operation is normal for a cheap welder, I'm pretty happy with it.

On a side note, i looked into building a welding cart, but the cost of the steel alone was $150. This cart was $79. Not exactly what I wanted (the bottle is too low) but really sturdy for the price, and easy to throw together. No handle though, so I'm gonna try fab one up :)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190104/60146d9a22d6032c0e4afdf7f174accf.jpg

[Slunnie]

The AC is really for aluminium to get through the oxide layer. For steel DC setting is the way to go.

[ozscott]

I have had 3 goes on my TIG 2 of which were laying alloy beads. Happy with welder. Amazing tech for the money.

Cheershttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190104/666fc79fdf618fb8d30e059164a29c82.jpg

[Disco-tastic]

I have had 3 goes on my TIG 2 of which were laying alloy beads. Happy with welder. Amazing tech for the money.

Cheershttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190104/666fc79fdf618fb8d30e059164a29c82.jpgThat's tidy. Had much practice before this welder? I'm really struggling to hold the torch steady and not touch the work piece or dab the filler on the tungsten. I reckon I sharpened it at least 5 times on the welds above!

[ozscott]

Hi mate. About 10 years ago I did a TAFE course in TIG but it was a short one and I couldn't do it very well.at all. I have stick welded for a while which helps in terms of controlling a weld puddle (all at home). The above was 1hz and that helps taking it slow and steady. Plus I used a foot pedal which is so much easier with alloy. Cheers

[ozscott]

As for torch steadiness that can be just practice although if it's just not working freehand you can buy a Tig Finger of similar or drag your 2 bottom fingers across the table or a guide block. Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

As for torch steadiness that can be just practice although if it's just not working freehand you can buy a Tig Finger of similar or drag your 2 bottom fingers across the table or a guide block. CheersI've been trying to adjust stick out so i can drag the cup along the lens piece. I'm much better free hand when I go back over the weld without filler as I'm not trying to do two things at once and can use the other hand to steady the torch.

Burnt a few holes in the handle for the welding cart but managed to fill them in ok. The welds aren't pretty but they're not awful. Ill get some pics tomorrow.

I also dont have pulse so 1Hz is irrelevant for me :bigcry:

[ozscott]

When you say drag mate you mean push and drag hey? So opposite of stick...

I have set mine to 200hz like the setting of the TIGs without pulse and that's nice but travel speeds needs to be quicker for a given penetration.

Dragging the cup works well although on alloy it doesnt look as good but if that gives you good consistent welds and it stops the tungsten being dipped often then why not.

Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

When you say drag mate you mean push and drag hey? So opposite of stick...

I have set mine to 200hz like the setting of the TIGs without pulse and that's nice but travel speeds needs to be quicker for a given penetration.

Dragging the cup works well although on alloy it doesnt look as good but if that gives you good consistent welds and it stops the tungsten being dipped often then why not.

CheersI drag the torch and then dab the filler in the puddle. Its what i thought you were supposed to do. Probs wrong tho! Haha

[ozscott]

So if you are facing the workpiece and start at the right you are pushing the weld puddle to the left? That’s fine. Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

So if you are facing the workpiece and start at the right you are pushing the weld puddle to the left? That’s fine. CheersNah I'm doing it wrong. Will see if doing it properly makes any difference.

This is the kind of weld I ended up with 3/4 times, though i took a second pass on about half of them To even them out
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190105/4cf14d27ff814fbb4f60ff5ae4969772.jpg

And this is the finished handle on the cart. Unfortunately i didnt let the paint cure fully so managed to scratch some of it off, so will have to touch it up at some stage.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190105/aa030757a9593b0dcea098a80de15875.jpg