No „R“everse and slipping in „D“rive / Broke down in Port Lincoln SA

[Mr.Ignacio]

Hi @all!

Yesterday in the Coffin Bay NP i tried to get the Disco in Lowgear (used many times before and worked well) but it seems that the Clutch won’t engage. So I can’t get it in low gear. After that i noticed that I have no reverse gear. Then, back in „D“ we drove the rest of the way to the campground. Today I checked the ATF level. Around 0,75l were missing. Filled it up and reverse came slowly back. Feels like pulled handbrake and no power in reverse. But it moves a little bit. In D there is now sometimes the feeling from a slipping clutch. Revs up but won’t accelerate. If you give more throttle theres a rub-feeling. Furthermore in N it won’t fully disconnect and tryies to move forward a little bit. Drove slowly to Port Lincoln and now I’m here and don’t know what to do.

Some facts: The Disco got a whole „new“ overhauled transmission and torque converter at the 10/03/2017 and 340184km. Now it’s on 362000.

Bought the car with 352000km at the beginning of march this year. Drove 10000km wirhout tranny problems. Changed the ATF before started the trip. No filter change because couldn’t get one and the old one shouldn’t be old.

Shifted really smooth and good until yesterday.

Lights at the shifting lever and at the odo are working right. So the gear selector switch should be ok.

Drained and changed 2L ATF today: The old ATF is red. Looks good.

Now I‘m in Port Lincoln and think about to get ATF and the Filter tomorrow and change it. My thoughts: Apparently I lost some ATF on the way. Maybe now the filter is clogged with chippings and the TC / Gearbox can’t produce enough oil pressure?!

Should be the easiest and cheapest thing to try. But the next problem: Where to do it? As you know from my introduction thread, I’m on travels.

Any ideas? As a last resort: Does anybody have a spare transmission in their garage?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

lack of drive is either low fluid or torque converter,,
any spatter marks on the rear window?
topping up the tranny is a two person job...

[Mr.Ignacio]

lack of drive is either low fluid or torque converter,,
any spatter marks on the rear window?
topping up the tranny is a two person job...

Yes, did it with two persons.
Indeed I had some spatter marks on the rear door last time!

[steve_a]

Check the hoses that lead to the transmission cooler, especially the passenger side. Give it a really good twist and pull, it's a well known problem point and it can drag air in as well as fluid out.

if you get any moment, you need to accept it needs replacing and get rid of the swaged joint. There is every chance it will just pull of the rigid pipe anyway. Then ideally two hose clamps (jubilee clips, worm clips), one on each side of the flare.

I can attest to a lot of odd effects when that joint is poor, but not yet given up as it can aerate the oil, causes havoc.

Kicking myself I didn't check that for you when you were here, sorry!

[Mr.Ignacio]

Thanks for the advice Steve! I‘ll check the pipes now. Actually trying to get a new ATF Filter in Port Lincoln anyway. And looking for accommodation in town. Seems to be well booked out at the weekend. Except high class villas with own jetty :rolleyes:

[Mr.Ignacio]

Checked the hoses. Looks clean and tight. And seems that it’s replaced before. The LH hose is blue and its a screwed connection. So where’s the oil gone? :blink:
Cant get a filter today and wont just top up again without renewing the pangasket and filter. Looking now for possible leaks.

Edit: Just noticed that I can twist the hoses a little bit at the connection to the cooler at both sides. So could be a possible leak there. But it seems to be absolutely dry at this point.

[Mr.Ignacio]

Finally found an accommodation with a big frontyard. So time now to find the leak and fix it. Hopefully after sealing, refilling and servicing with a new filter it comes back to live.
Every possible leakage infos are appreciated:)

[Mr.Ignacio]

Pulled off the hoses at the quick connectors to the cooler. Drivers side is slightly moveable and if i pull it, oil leaks out. Passenger side connection can also move slightly forwards and backwards. Disconnected: no oil in the hose.

[Eevo]

Disconnected: no oil in the hose.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIbFsuEs-oo

[Mr.Ignacio]

Drained all the oil. Came out a little bit more than 4,5 litres. Looks and smells good (as good as ATF can smell). Oil pan looks also clear from inside. Minor dirt at the magnets. Would say it’s normal. Forgot to say that I drained the oil before I pulled the hoses.
Made a quick video from the movement at the quick connectors. I absolutely can't feel any oil there. Seems to be leakproof. Or does it have to sit 10000% tight?
Nevertheless anywhere gets air in the system - and ATF out of the system.


https://youtu.be/ycdAHRc2-Rs

[steve_a]

The connections onto the actual cooler spigots can usually rotate and move a bit back and forward, your video looks normal. There is a joint a bit further down, which it sounds like you checked as well. No oil coming out is also kind of normal, it drains back into the sump.

The hard pipe to flex pipe near the aircon pump is the one that is usually the one to go, from the sounds of it this isn't the issue.

4.5L does sound about normal for a sump drain.

It's worth checking at this stage that the flex plate hasn't suffered an issue. The bottom of the box has an inspection plate, 3 m8 IIRC, take that off and have a look to make sure the flex plate isn't cracked or some other issue. You'll need to rotate the engine via the crankshaft at the front to have a look at it.

All the other options start to be a bit grim, but I'd be reluctant to think it might be broken clutches etc at this point.

If it makes you feel better my engine and gearbox fell out with each other today and stopped CAN bussing... limp mode until it seemed to resolve after moving the auto ecu around. I was only 1.5 hrs from homebase though...

[Mr.Ignacio]

....

The hard pipe to flex pipe near the aircon pump is the one that is usually the one to go, from the sounds of it this isn't the issue.



I´ll check that again tomorrow on both sides.


It's worth checking at this stage that the flex plate hasn't suffered an issue. The bottom of the box has an inspection plate, 3 m8 IIRC, take that off and have a look to make sure the flex plate isn't cracked or some other issue. You'll need to rotate the engine via the crankshaft at the front to have a look at it.

Made this today but without rotating the engine... Will have a look tomorrow again! But inside its dry.. So now explanation for the oil loss :confused: But of course the symptoms while driving matching a flex plate issue.



If it makes you feel better my engine and gearbox fell out with each other today and stopped CAN bussing... limp mode until it seemed to resolve after moving the auto ecu around. I was only 1.5 hrs from homebase though...

No[tonguewink] but read a funny section at discovery2.co.uk a few minutes ago which really seems to be true: "Well, I would probably not be to far wrong if I said that most people who have owned Land Rovers have had at some point a "breakdown", well It seems I'm no different. I have had a LOT of cars since I have been driving, but up until recently have never broken down!!!.......well the Discovery has put pay to that record!!."

Edit: When I checked the ATF level in the National Park no oil drained out of the filler plug with engine off. So a good amount of ATF should has been lost on the last km´s

[Tombie]

Don’t feel bad... my Land Rovers are the vehicles that haven’t broken down....

[Mr.Ignacio]

Good to hear ;-)
Had a lot of high kilometers 4HP22 in my BMW‘s without any breakdowns. Just had to service it and all were good.

Checked the flex plate again through the inspection hole. Can’t see any cracks oder damages through the hole.

Checked the cooler lines again: LH side is definitely already replaced and looks good. RH side has a little bit dirt at the joint to the quick connectors. Can also twist the hose there. But can’t see any leakage there. Furthermore the other end of the hose looks absolutely dry. Can’t reach it really good to twist and check it.

Generally to look for leakages isn’t easy when every other part is leaking everywhere a little bit :D
Would say best I can do is waiting for the ATF-Filter, fill it up and search for leaks immediately after or during filling up. Then, if possible, have a testride to do an underbody wash and check for leaks again.

[Pippin]

Good to hear ;-)
Had a lot of high kilometers 4HP22 in my BMW‘s without any breakdowns. Just had to service it and all were good.

Checked the flex plate again through the inspection hole. Can’t see any cracks oder damages through the hole.

Checked the cooler lines again: LH side is definitely already replaced and looks good. RH side has a little bit dirt at the joint to the quick connectors. Can also twist the hose there. But can’t see any leakage there. Furthermore the other end of the hose looks absolutely dry. Can’t reach it really good to twist and check it.

Generally to look for leakages isn’t easy when every other part is leaking everywhere a little bit :D
Would say best I can do is waiting for the ATF-Filter, fill it up and search for leaks immediately after or during filling up. Then, if possible, have a testride to do an underbody wash and check for leaks again.
Hi Mr.Ignacio,
Probably an unnecessary question, but you are using the correct fill procedure? i.e. filling it to overflow then running through the gears with the engine running and continuing to fill until a bead of fluid is coming out of the fill point. Then replace the filler hex plug before turning engine off.
Nick

[Mr.Ignacio]

Hi Pippin!

Yes I´m using the Landrover Workshop Manual :)

[Mr.Ignacio]

Installed new ATF-Filter today. Filled it up etc. First no difference. Now reverse is back. But forward is now gone [bawl]

Don’t want to spend ages for diagnostics / repair etc. Has anybody a Gearbox for sale?
Still can’t believe that this one is really been overhauled. After 20.000km shouldn’t be broken again. Thanks to the repco shop who did it. Don’t know the Australian law regarding guarantee and warranty. If there’s a chance, I have a good worldwide legal expenses insurance :)

[Tins]

lack of drive is either low fluid or torque converter,,
any spatter marks on the rear window?

Not sure I agree with that... The A clutch is particularly fragile on these. Ask me how I know.... :bat:

[Tins]

Installed new ATF-Filter today. Filled it up etc. First no difference. Now reverse is back. But forward is now gone [bawl]

Don’t want to spend ages for diagnostics / repair etc. Has anybody a Gearbox for sale?
Still can’t believe that this one is really been overhauled. After 20.000km shouldn’t be broken again. Thanks to the repco shop who did it. Don’t know the Australian law regarding guarantee and warranty. If there’s a chance, I have a good worldwide legal expenses insurance :)

The 20,000 K thing is fine, but the nearly 14 months isn't so good. I would definitely be in touch with the workshop who did the work. If the work was done in Victoria then the next port of call if the workshop won't help is CAV ( 1300 55 81 81 ). They will tell you if you have a case or not, they will try and help resolve your issues, but they won't do anything if you haven't tried to deal with the repairer yourself.

As for a second hand trans: good luck with that.

[discorevy]

Not sure I agree with that... The A clutch is particularly fragile on these. Ask me how I know.... :bat:

Yep sounds like probable A clutch on Mr Ignacio's, if the trans builder isn't familiar with these they mightn't have put the upgraded Teflon seals on the input shaft leading to excess pressure on the A clutch and premature failure.[bigsad]

[Mr.Ignacio]

Thanks johntins for that useful information! Yes, the work was done in VIC. Already thought that 14 months could be a problem. I´ll contact them and see what happens. But haven't much hope...

Will search the web etc for spare transmission or car. At home this wouldn't be a reason for that, but don't want to spent 2 weeks or so of my holiday in Port Lincoln for repairs ;-)

Does the Auto gearbox from the Disco 1 fit in the Disco 2? Its the 4hp22 as well but don't know if its an "EH". But seems to be not...

BTW: Stalltest in D goes all the way up to max rev. Really strange that reverse is back and forward now gone...

[AK83]

....

Does the Auto gearbox from the Disco 1 fit in the Disco 2? Its the 4hp22 as well but don't know if its an "EH". But seems to be not...

D2 auto box is electronically controlled., hence the E in the model name
D1 isn't, and doesn't get the E suffix in the model name.

would be interested to know if they're interchangeable too.

ps. if I could get the trans out of my spares car(D2 V8), it could be for sale.
But it's in a very awkward position and getting the trans out is going to be a big job.

Is yours a TD5 or V8 .. not sure on all the differences between the two, other than the obvious external differences.

[djam1]

Peter Owen will likely have a gearbox he has more wrecked Land Rovers than NSW
He is now an independent LR dealer in Port Lincoln
Easy to find at
62/72 Liverpool St. The Owen family were LR dealers for 50 odd years have just become independent.

[Mr.Ignacio]

Is yours a TD5 or V8 .. not sure on all the differences between the two, other than the obvious external differences.

Its a TD5. Already saw options to swap them, but its not the quickest job as far as I understood.



Peter Owen will likely have a gearbox he has more wrecked Land Rovers than NSW
He is now an independent LR dealer in Port Lincoln
Easy to find at 62/72 Liverpool St.
The Owen family were LR dealers for 50 odd years have just become independent.

Thanks for that really good advice, but...


Edit: That´s another story

Actually have these options:


looking for a reconditioned transmission (thats what I'm doing at the moment) and swap it
buy another Disco, swap the transmission, sell the donor
Buy another Disco, swap to parts to the new one, and sell the broken one
Buy a total different car (with manual transmission please) swap the roof top tent and awning, and sell the broken Disco

[djam1]

Ok I can not answer for your interactions with people it sounds like you got his dad whom I have always found to be good to deal with.
The cost of a reco transmission may exceed the value of the car but there is another Land Rover wrecker in Adelaide that will sell you a transmission this could be a lucky dip though.
There is another guy in Port Lincoln who has just closed his 4x4 repair business after many years.
His name is Peter Jones and has all his Land Rovers and I presume his parts on a farm out of Lincoln
https://www.google.com/search?q=peter+jones+4x4+repairs+port+lincoln
(https://www.google.com/search?q=peter+jones+4x4+repairs+port+lincoln&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab)His business is closed but he may still sell you something if you need it.


Its a TD5. Already saw options to swap them, but its not the quickest job as far as I understood.




Thanks for that really good advice, but...

I was there two days ago and asked for the ATF-filter. Not sure if it was actually "Peter" Owen, but an old gray-haired man greeted me there. He doesn't seemed to be really happy to talk to a "foreigner" like me. Never had any real problems with communication before, especially when buying car-parts. After some impudent questions from him, if my girlfriend "comes from the same area" regarding the accent or could explain our question better, I ended up to show him a picture from the ATF-Filter. Then he recognized it as a speaker, instead of a filter. In Germany it is also often the case that the father passes on the business to his son and then loiteres there daily and does his mischief. I can handle that. At some point I will also be old and different. But if the first experience is so unpleasant, I'm not sure if I want to spend good 2000$ there.

Actually have these options:


looking for a reconditioned transmission (thats what I'm doing at the moment) and swap it
buy another Disco, swap the transmission, sell the donor
Buy another Disco, swap to parts to the new one, and sell the broken one
Buy a total different car (with manual transmission please) swap the roof top tent and awning, and sell the broken Disco

[Mr.Ignacio]

Ok I can not answer for your interactions with people it sounds like you got his dad whom I have always found to be good to deal with.
The cost of a reco transmission may exceed the value of the car but there is another Land Rover wrecker in Adelaide that will sell you a transmission this could be a lucky dip though.
There is another guy in Port Lincoln who has just closed his 4x4 repair business after many years.
His name is Peter Jones and has all his Land Rovers and I presume his parts on a farm out of Lincoln
https://www.google.com/search?q=peter+jones+4x4+repairs+port+lincoln
(https://www.google.com/search?q=peter+jones+4x4+repairs+port+lincoln&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab)His business is closed but he may still sell you something if you need it.

Thank you very much! I´ll try that addresses. Maybe we just caught on the wrong foot. Who knows.

Furthermore I'm looking for a place to do the job. Maybe a barn on a farm where we can camp as well. I'm actually in an Airbnb accommodation where the Disco sits in the front yard. No garage, no tools, dirt ground.... Could dig a hole under the car to get the transmission out [biggrin]


Edit: Maybe the overhauled transmission failed again because at the invoice from the swap are no hints that they flushed the oil cooler and the lines etc...

[djam1]

Thank you very much! I´ll try that addresses. Maybe we just caught on the wrong foot. Who knows.

Furthermore I'm looking for a place to do the job. Maybe a barn on a farm where we can camp as well. I'm actually in an Airbnb accommodation where the Disco sits in the front yard. No garage, no tools, dirt ground.... Could dig a hole under the car to get the transmission out [biggrin]

Dont try the address as I said he closed the business to retire but the phone was still connected
To be honest I think Owen's are still the answer to your problem

[Mr.Ignacio]

Yes that's what I meant with "try the address". Sorry ;-)
I´ll ask at Owens place tomorrow. Should be closed today.

[Mr.Ignacio]

Conclusion for this thread: As I don't want to spent too much time with diagnostics (whats really wrong in the AT or not etc), or take the risk of just buying a used one, or an "overhauled" one, I bought a manual D2a TD5 today to get rid of the risk called "automatic transmission".

Good in the end: Now I have a car with less km, CDL, and without automatic transmission [biggrin]

Will swap the roof top tent, awning etc in the next days and will have a MY2002 TD5 AT for sale. Only problem: Just drives reverse and nobody knows how long it will does it [tonguewink] If any one is interested, please send an pm.

Thanks for all your help and advices! If I had more time, I would be really interested to open the gearbox and see whats happened.

[Jazzman]

Pulled off the hoses at the quick connectors to the cooler. Drivers side is slightly moveable and if i pull it, oil leaks out. Passenger side connection can also move slightly forwards and backwards. Disconnected: no oil in the hose.

This is pretty normal. make sure you feel an assertive click when you put them back on. There is a great Land Rover specialist in Port Lincoln opposite the McDonalds near Repco. The blokes name is Peter 0411 174 310. Call him if you need advice, but be prepared to have a chat if you get into a conversation with his old man.

[Jazzman]

Conclusion for this thread: As I don't want to spent too much time with diagnostics (whats really wrong in the AT or not etc), or take the risk of just buying a used one, or an "overhauled" one, I bought a manual D2a TD5 today to get rid of the risk called "automatic transmission".

Good in the end: Now I have a car with less km, CDL, and without automatic transmission [biggrin]

Will swap the roof top tent, awning etc in the next days and will have a MY2002 TD5 AT for sale. Only problem: Just drives reverse and nobody knows how long it will does it [tonguewink] If any one is interested, please send an pm.

Thanks for all your help and advices! If I had more time, I would be really interested to open the gearbox and see whats happened.

Looks like you solved your problem. Wish I could by a new car whenever mine failed :) Would probably have ended up with a 100 series Land Cruiser by now :wasntme: