D2 with rear auto locker - what's it like to drive on road, particularly tight turns?

[twr7cx]

I'm interested to hear anyones experiences in driving a D2 with an auto locker (e.g. Detroit Locker) fitted to the rear, particularly in on road conditions including tight corners such as round-about and car parks. I've read through many old threads on here generally the comments were focused towards off road capabilities or turned into comparisons and opinions on the different offerings - air locker vs auto vs torsion LSD, etc.

I currently have the triple Ashcroft Transmissions ATB combination (front, centre and rear) but am considering replacing the rear unit with an auto locker to gain a little bit more when offroad (I already have Ashcroft Tranmissions HD Axel shafts fitted so no concerns there with the changeover) but am concerned about the on road effects. The ATB's have been great though for tarmac driving particularly in slippery conditions such as heavy rain, black ice during the cold Tasmanian winters, regular driving on dirt roads and through the paddocks, the boat ramp and beach driving all of which I do much much more of than actual off road tracks.

[Bohica]

If you do go down this path, I'm in the market for the ATB diff.[smilebigeye]

[donh54]

Detroit Locker is more of an "unlocker". Remains locked whilst no differentiation is needed, unlocks when it is. I have a D1 with one fitted. Drives absolutely as normal, with the major difference being if you accelerate in a corner, you will induce some understeer,. Not really a problem, and you soon get used to it. I also have a Tru Trak fittwd in front, and have no issues with that, either. Always ready when needed with no switches or wires/hoses needed.
The horror stories you hear are usually from lead-foot larries , accelerating into a roundabout, then getting out of shape, blaming their lack of driving abilities on the Detroit.

[trout1105]

I am toying with the idea of fitting lockers to my D2a and although the ATB and Detroit lockers are good units I am leaning towards fitting air lockers or E-diffs preferably.

[Lemo]

I had one in the rear of a HJ60 way back (20 years now) and can only comment that it would drive as normal on road etc, only time I’d notice it unlocking was in tight turns in car parks etc and would clunk unlocked

Cheers Lemo

[DiscoMick]

I had a Detroit locker in the rear of a D1 and it drove as normal, except it unlocked on tight turns.

[PhilipA]

I had one in a 77RRC. It was an "interim" Detroit locker so may not be quite as civlised as later ones.
1 would clunk in and out when turning slowly as in a carpark
2 would occasionally give a big BANG if taking off from lights with a slight curve as the dogs meshed.
3 would tighten line on gear change if loaded by hard acceleration on a curve when changing gear say second to third.
4 if driving on a greasy wet surface will follow the contour downhill. I once spent a day driving through the drivers window on a wet day from Wannaring to Bourke.
5 If driving on wet greasy surface say uphill then wanting to turn, may not unlock and give mucho understeer.
6 Broke a rear long axle but that was driver error. Twisted 2 half a turn on Nissan Trials but that WAS the Nissan Trials.

I found it a bit uncivilised and so fitted a Maxidrive to my 91 RRC.

I would fit a selectable diff to my D2 if going that way, but loved the transparency of the Quaife I had in the front of the RRC so I will probably go 2x Ashcroft ATB on my D2.
Regards Philip A
PS , If competing in a competition that requires full lock turns, the Detroit will increase the turn radius quite a bit, as I found in the Nissan Trials.

[rangieman]

Be stuffed just go manual locker and be done with all the BS[bighmmm]

[101RRS]

What BS? - the modern detroit is install and forget - all the old information that Philip provided might have been relevant 20 or 30 years ago but is not valid now.

When driving you will never know it is there.

Garry

[rangieman]

What BS? - the modern detroit is install and forget - all the old information that Philip provided might have been relevant 20 or 30 years ago but is not valid now.

When driving you will never know it is there.

Garry
Simply that and im not getting into a dick waiving discussing with the clan that think they know :whistling::bangin::Thump:.
With all the hype that has gone on with this lately really it is just not worth it :wallbash:

[Vern]

Simply that and im not getting into a dick waiving discussing with the clan that think they know :whistling::bangin::Thump:.
With all the hype that has gone on with this lately really it is just not worth it :wallbash:Well put it back in your pants then![emoji6]

Wouldn't know its in there unless you were told, totally undetectable. Detroit that is, not Chris's wang[emoji4][emoji38]

[101RRS]

Simply that and im not getting into a dick waiving discussing with the clan that think they know :whistling::bangin::Thump:.
With all the hype that has gone on with this lately really it is just not worth it :wallbash:

Well I know as I have one fitted in the rear of my vehicle and have had it in for 9 years [thumbsupbig]

So following your logic, you will pay pay 2 to 3 times the cost to have a manual locker and have major issues if you buy one well known brand - sorry its seems more logical to go the detroit if they do the job which they certainly do.

If you dont want to get into a dick waiving discussion then dont get involved.

[rangieman]

Well I know as I have one fitted in the rear of my vehicle and have had it in for 9 years [thumbsupbig]

So following your logic, you will pay pay 2 to 3 times the cost to have a manual locker and have major issues if you buy one well known brand - sorry its seems more logical to go the detroit if they do the job which they certainly do.

If you dont want to get into a dick waiving discussion then dont get involved.
Im happy for you[bighmmm]

[rangieman]

Well put it back in your pants then![emoji6]

Wouldn't know its in there unless you were told, totally undetectable. Detroit that is, not Chris's wang[emoji4][emoji38]
Stop looking over my shoulder you:Rolling:

[101RRS]

Im happy for you[bighmmm]

Constructive response as usual that really contributes to the discussion.

Please tell us why you don't like detroits and what experience you had that made you not like them.

[DiscoMick]

If you don't want to go the full Detroit auto locker you could go the Tru Trac instead.

[justinc]

OP already has a trutrack/ atb. I personally prefer the detroit however if you have a deflating tyre on one side at speed they are fairly unforgiving... but that is not everyones experience so don't let that sway you.. just need to be aware they do not like uneven circumferences😣.
I have one to go back in the rear of the 110 as i found it totally capable and infinitely simple.

[PhilipA]

2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1977 FC 101
1973 Haflinger AP700
1971 Jaguar V12 E-Type Series 3 Roadster
1957 Series 1 88"
1957 Series 1 88" Station Wagon


Garrycol is the Detroit in the RRS or the 101?
If as I suspect in the 101 I doubt whether you could detect any bad behavior of a Detroit over all the other noises and quirks of a 101.
The clunks may have improved but all of the performance issues with a Detroit remain.
Regards Philip A

[DiscoClax]

By "performance issues" I think you mean "features" [emoji14]

The generation 3 soft locker from Detroit is pretty much quiet and transparent apart from the slight pull you get if on the loud pedal when cornering, etc.

I've been Trutrac LSD front, Detroit locker rear for quite a few years in my D1 and really like the positivity and predictability of it but it wouldn't be for everyone. I've got a bit of motor too, so that amplifies the effects somewhat. With the stock 3.9 it was much less of an issue.

Personally, for a D2a with TC I'd prefer the LSDs front and rear for a general rig just for civility and getting most of the off road benefit. Unless you are doing gnarly, wheel lifting, hard core stuff regularly. So my vote would be don't fix what ain't broke :) You are already very well set up. Enjoy.

[101RRS]

Garrycol is the Detroit in the RRS or the 101?
If as I suspect in the 101 I doubt whether you could detect any bad behavior of a Detroit over all the other noises and quirks of a 101.


Yes it is the 101 - so what are these noises and quirks of a 101 - the 101 is actually quite quiet compared to series vehicles and as the basic drive train is similar to a early RRC and not all that different to other awd Landrovers. With the exception of the 101 rumble on high speed overrun from the front driveshaft, I am not sure what quirks you are referring to. The 101 is one of the nicest utilitarian Landrovers to drive and I can assure you if the detroit does unlock which it rarely does on the road you can barely hear it.

What you described earlier certainly applied to the early versions and in particular 2wd go fast cars, but in an awd landy the modern softlocker version does not behave anything like what you described. As myself and others who have them fitted now - that are basically set and forget and under most conditions you will never know they are there.

Garry

[twr7cx]

Thanks for the replies so far.



I had one in a 77RRC. It was an "interim" Detroit locker so may not be quite as civlised as later ones.

From what I've read they've continued the development of them and have improved in their smoothness. I think I read that they're around 5th generation now with changes to the teeth for meshing smoothness etc?



PS , If competing in a competition that requires full lock turns, the Detroit will increase the turn radius quite a bit, as I found in the Nissan Trials.

No competition intentions. Larger turning radius is a pain but can live with. Probably still turns sharper than my old Defender 90.


Simply that and im not getting into a dick waiving discussing with the clan that think they know :whistling::bangin::Thump:.
With all the hype that has gone on with this lately really it is just not worth it :wallbash:

But that's exactly what you are doing. You've opened up a thread with a very specific question as indicated in the title, an outline of my desires and requirements in the OP (e.g. you seem to have missed the fact that track 4WDing is a minor part of my vehicles use compared to the majority of circumstances where a continually active traction diff provides me great benefit) and you've ignored all that to make your comment about the air locker to promote your own interests agenda. It's in no way relevant to the purpose of this thread and so clearly is just because you wanted to get it off track. Please don't. If you don't have anything to contribute towards the target discussion then don't post, find another thread or start your own if you want to discuss air lockers.



If you don't want to go the full Detroit auto locker you could go the Tru Trac instead.

Ummm... That just seems like spending money to get back to where I started. As mentioned I currently have the triple ATB combination which is just Ashcroft Transmissions Homebrand version of the TrueTrac.



however if you have a deflating tyre on one side at speed they are fairly unforgiving... but that is not everyones experience so don't let that sway you..

Tell me more, what happens?


Any recommendations on where to purchase the Detroit from? I assume that the Rover 24 spline is the correct model variant for the rear of a Discovery 2?

[justinc]

They tend to want to start 'steering' all by themselves😅

[PhilipA]

From what I've read they've continued the development of them and have improved in their smoothness. I think I read that they're around 5th generation now with changes to the teeth for meshing smoothness etc?

Yes AFAIK they have improved in smoothness, BUT they are still a set of dog clutches that engage and disengage.
Look I was happy with mine and found it a great help in the right circumstances. I ultimately fitted JACMAC axles to get over the extra forces on stock axles and subsequent breakage. However this then maybe contributed to the carrier bearings dying. Mine weren't changed by the dealer who built the diff .
I don't know how one will go in a D2 , but IMHO it is the soft bushings in the rear suspension of a RRC that perhaps contributed to problems and a D2 has soft bushings also. I had some other problems also like the axle mount for the ball joint tearing out.
The fact remains that a Detroit will slide down any side slope if it is slimy, and AFAIR they even have a decal to this effect if fitted to trucks. If you are aware of it then no problem. Whether there is enough compression in the bushes to tighten up a turn when changing gear on a D2 I don't know.
I soon got used to the idiosyncrasies of the Detroit and I was generally happy with it. However when I bought my 91 I felt a Maxi Drive was a better and more civilized option, as it was just a normal open diff until needed so had NO quirks or idiosyncrasies.
I think you have just about the ideal setup now. Maybe stab bar disconnects would give better articulation and therefore keep the wheels on the ground more.
Have a read of this site
Excerpts from NoSpin/detroit locker? OWNER'S MANUAL (http://4x4icon.com/offroad/detroit/detroit_noslip.htm)

Regards Philip A

[DiscoMick]

The way they are adjusted when being installed seems to make a difference to how smoothly they perform. Regular diff oil changes are also important. I used to notice mine was smoother with fresh oil.

[101RRS]

They tend to want to start 'steering' all by themselves😅

Mainly in 2wd short wheel base vehicles - in heavier AWD vehicles like landrovers this is not an an issue in my experience - the front drive counteracts any tendancies there may be to want to drive ahead on sharp bends when you are going too fast.

Garry

[DiscoMick]

My steering was unaffected by the rear Detroit locker.

[justinc]

My steering was unaffected by the rear Detroit locker.

So was mine... i just mentiomed the steering bit because of its propensity to begin thr unlocking and locking process with uneven circumferences when druving in a straight line and applyung a reasonable throttle input...

[Gullible]

the understeer when putting your foot down when going around a corner a is characteristic of a rear wheel drive vehicle. With a Detroit locker in the rear you will have more traction at the rear and it behaves like a rear wheel drive vehicle.

Most people have forgotten what it is like to drive a rear wheel drive. It takes about 1/2 a roundabout to adjust your driving style. If your even slightly worried fit true-track front and back.

my only advice is regardless of whether you fit Detroit or True-Track don't tell anyone, they will think you just have amazing driving skills. [thumbsupbig]

[discorevy]

the understeer when putting your foot down when going around a corner a is characteristic of a rear wheel drive vehicle. With a Detroit locker in the rear you will have more traction at the rear and it behaves like a rear wheel drive vehicle.



must've been something wrong with my rear wheel drive cars in the past then , if I was to put my foot down in a corner back then ,I would get oversteer .....thinking about it ...yes , definitely something wrong because the rear tyres would get all smoky as well[bigwhistle]


twr7cx I'm not sure it would be a worthwhile exercise in your case unless you will be lifting a wheel from time to time, but in tight turns / loose gravel you'll know it's there ( detroit )

[101RRS]

If your even slightly worried fit true-track front and back.

But a true-track is not a locker - certainly far superior to an open diff but when it all turns to custard the true-track will have one wheel spinning and no forward momentum but it is a top LSD and works great in most situations.

[stevo]

I have had a Detroit locker in my D2 for 15 odd years broke one axle and fitted the maxi drive axles, have also fitted the tru track in the front at same time have also fitted the Ashcroft CVs after breaking one CV.

They both work really well and I used to do some hard 4wding and 3 years ago fitted the limited slip in the transfer case but have not had a chance to try it all out yet but on wet roads no wheel spin what so ever before fitting the LSD centre the front would spin.

I need to get out to test it off road and see how far I can go without locking transfer case.

[twr7cx]

This afternoon I finished installing an Eaton Detroit into the rear diff on my Discovery 2. My vehicle already had Ashcroft Transmission ATBs in the front, centre and rear prior to this (the rear has obviously been removed and replaced with the Detroit). My reasoning for the swap was to give the vehicle a bit more hard core off road capability but I still wanted to retain the positive active traction that the ATBs had offered.
I’ve only test driven it 15km so far on the road - including highway up to 100km and through a twisty hilly pass at 60km. In general the vehicle felt exactly like before, the only time I noticed anything different was when turning through a roundabout I heard a single click clunk noise (I had the radio off - had it been on I likely would not have heard it) there wasn’t a clunk or feeling through the driveline. While cruising a long I felt like there was a very slight gentle pull to the left - possibly from the chamber of the road? Turning and reversing at home was as normal. All up my initial view and perception is perfectly liveable and hard to notice on the street.

[101 Ron]

I am going to enter this thread because I feel I am well placed to offer facts on the Detroit locker in the rear of constant 4wd system.
I have been running a Detroit in the back of 101 Landy for over 10 years.
The presence of drive from the front diff in a constant 4 wd system reduces any driveability effects to near zero unless you go looking for it on a round about driving like a idot.
I fitted a Detroit to the rear of a 80 series cruiser and the owner of the vehicle gave a Detroit knocker a 200km drive of it on road though towns ECT.
The knocker was floored to be told after wards the vehicle was fitted with a Detroit and the knocker was a regular 80 series cruiser driver.
Detroit camming design has greatly improved over older units.
The Detroit causes no more axle strain than any other locker on the market.
The old siding side ways off road thing was mentioned again with the Detroit on a side slope.
The fact is if driving across a slippery hill the Detroit has already taken you further than a open diff as the up hill wheel would have lost traction.
The Detroit is the great unlocker..........and will remain locked if traction to a wheel is limited...........it in the real world behaves no differently to a manually locked diff on a slippery side slope.
I found the auto locking feature is key off road as I am not worried about having to lock and unlock a diff manually to get a tighter turn off road or to release strain on the axle on a hard surface.
I was also mentioned the Detroit can increase turning circle off road.........I found that's not the case, the Detroit does give the steering a more self centring effect, and on full lock low traction surfaces the throttle can be used in a way that encourages the back end to break out and reduce the turning circle under throttle and why the Detroit was a favorate of the rally crowd.
The Detroit is simpler to fit than a E or Air or a vacuum locker...........no compressor, no wires or pipes to get ripped out by a stick.
The Detroit will even let me know if one of the rear tyres is down on air............yes they will pull the steering to one side if tyre pressures are not even...............correct tyre pressure s and no problems at all.
The only minor draw back I find is slightly increased drive line free play as the dogs on the Detroit need wide clearances to work.
One other point is there are Detroit knockoffs out there that do not use the proper Detroit oscillator camming tube of late model Detroit's................they are not in the same class as a Detroit and operate much like what some people have posted, especially in a two wheel drive vehicle or part time 4wd system.
Ron

[DiscoMick]

We had a Detroit unlocker in the rear of our D1 and it was great. The only time I ever noticed it was when doing full lock turns on roundabouts it would click to unlock. No effect on steering.
It definitely got us to places we would not have reached without it because of spinning wheels. Made a significant difference in The Simpson.
Very strong too. Just make sure your diffs have plenty of oil and you can forget about it.

[rick130]

[Snip]
While cruising a long I felt like there was a very slight gentle pull to the left - possibly from the chamber of the road? Turning and reversing at home was as normal. All up my initial view and perception is perfectly liveable and hard to notice on the street.

Yep, as the diff is effectively a spool when driving straight ahead so the car will follow the camber of the road.