Discovery 2 Suspension Advice

[Kent_P]

Hi there,

I am sure that this has been discussed to the death in many forums but alas, I am at a loss and needing some advice for my perspective new setup.


Background:

I have a 2001 Discovery 2 with 306km. It originally came with air suspension but a previous owner converted it to springs. The rear has the stock shocks. The front suspension is completely stock.


Advice:

In the near future, I am looking at purchasing a steel bull bar with winch capabilities.

I believe that a standard steel winch bar is around 50kg and a winch is around 40kg, so total is around 90kg with maybe a second battery to come.

I will be most likely replacing the suspension in the near future as the stock equipment is getting a bit tired. With the addition of the extra weight on the front of the car, I understand that to maintain safety I will need to get more capable equipment. I am also looking at maybe putting a 2 inch lift in whilst I am in there.

My research has yielded that Terrafirma springs are the most suitable given my budget. I am undecided if I need heavy springs or medium springs. To go with these springs I will probably purchase the Terrafirma 2 inch lift shocks. Is this along the right lines of thinking for the situation?

My follow on question is that do I need to upgrade the brake lines to extended ones or will the stock ones suffice?


Any advice from the incredible knowledgeable contributors on this site would be most welcome and very much appreciated. Cheers.

[trout1105]

I have a 2004 D2a with stock front suspension with an ARB bullbar, winch and driving lights.
I have No problems due to the extra 100kg added to the front end even on rough tracks.
You can save 15kg-20kg by using synthetic rope on the winch instead of the steel rope [thumbsupbig]

[strangy]

You won’t need extended brake lines or ABS sensor cables.
I suspect trout1105 may have had springs upgraded prior to ownership or may have a different opinion on tracks to others.
Std D2 suspension with bar and winch will bottom out in supermarket speed bumps.
Be aware that many shocks supplied for supposed lifted D2 are no longer than std and often reduce travel defeating the purpose of fitment.
I don’t know about TF but can say Old Man Emu are one such shock.
Personally I would check out King Springs and investigate carefully open and closed length of proposed shocks.
Suspension based on budget can be disappointing.

[trout1105]

I suspect trout1105 may have had springs upgraded prior to ownership or may have a different opinion on tracks to others.
Std D2 suspension with bar and winch will bottom out in supermarket speed bumps.

I may have upgraded springs/shocks, I don't really know for certain I will ask Shane at Whyatts when I take the truck in for a "health check" before I head off up North But the truck definitely doesn't "Bottom Out" on speed humps or in potholes on the track.
I have No lift and am running 245/70/16 Yokohama Geolander AT's
I had the air suspension removed a couple of years ago and a new set of coil springs fitted But I am unsure of the rating of those springs as well But I have put about 200kg on the towball along with the truck being fully loaded up and still don't have a problem with the rear end "Bottoming Out" either.

[iPom]

Stay clear of the Terrafirma springs. Absolute rubbish paint finish on them. Mine started rusting within six months of being fitted. I’ve just removed them and fitted some Dobinsons. The finish and ride is remarkably better. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/05/211.jpg

[kelvo]

I would suggest not using the TF +2” shocks. I had them fitted for about 12,000Km three out of the four completely shot, the fourth partially shot. I replaced them with Koni +2” and they are still going strong.

I made a list of shock open & closed lengths here Discovery 2 front & rear shock length list (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/212310-discovery-2-front-rear-shock-length-list.html)

I found with the extra suspension droop with the TF and Koni shocks I had to fit +2” brake lines front and rear, pull through the slack on all four ABS sensor leads and space down the gearbox cross member to clear the front driveshaft on full droop.

Have a look at Les Richmond springs Spring Graph: Spring Height v's Weight Graph (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/p128.html) get your D2 axle weights once you have your bar work etc fitted, then use the graph to chose the best springs for your axle weights and required lift.

Somemore info on the LRA springs here For those with LRA coil springs - which colour are you using and what accessories? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/250469-those-lra-coil-springs-colour-you-using-what-accessories.html)

[twr7cx]

Not sure what advise you want or are expecting? It sounds like an upgrade restricted and limited by budget. If it wasn't, my advise would be:

Les Richmond Automotive White Tiger for the coil springs - you can fit them and exchange them until you get the height right.
Source the parts and reinstall the SLS for the rear. Les Richmond will be able to provide you with the 2" spacers to suit.
Bilstein shock absorbers as well. Again can be sourced through LRA or other sources, but be careful to check that they are actually the +2" models. There is a dodgy mob in Queensland that like to pull that trick by supplying the cheaper standard units instead...

Alternatively, go with some of the big name brands in suspension and you should have an alright package - such as King Springs or Dobsons for the coils and Koni, KYB etc for the shocks. Personally I avoid companies like Ironman or Terrafirma that make EVERYTHING for the 4WD as usually lacks quality and specialty IMO...

As you said a million threads on this already. Do some searching and reading.

[DeanoH]

Hi there,


I have a 2001 Discovery 2 with 306km. It originally came with air suspension but a previous owner converted it to springs. The rear has the stock shocks. The front suspension is completely stock.

............. I will be most likely replacing the suspension in the near future as the stock equipment is getting a bit tired. With the addition of the extra weight on the front of the car, I understand that to maintain safety I will need to get more capable equipment. I am also looking at maybe putting a 2 inch lift in whilst I am in there................

Cheers.

Hi Kent_P, A couple of things to consider. Firstly you've given no indication of the intended use for your 'new' D2, which out of the box is already a fairly capable 4WD :) What you'll undoubtedly find with your 17 year old D2 is that the springs have all sagged anyway and it may give a soft and wallowing ride. This is normal for this vehicle as described. I bought my current D2 V8 and replaced the front and rear springs with Kings standard springs and std. Landrover shockers. Kings standard springs have a +20mm lift over 'normal' out of the box and are made of thicker wire than the standard Landrover springs and have an extra coil as well. This resulted in a +40mm lift on the front and +30mm lift on the rear (or thereabouts) over the old sagged springs, do you really need an extra 50mm lift ?. The new std. shockers ensured a comfortable ride whilst retaining good off road performance. You may find that restoring the suspension to 'normal + 20mm' gives the result you require without the complications of a 2" lift, especially in a D2 :). By this I mean additional strain on the already hard working DC joint in the front drive shaft, poor caster and panhard rod length issues as well as the inevitable harsh ride that comes with 'heavy duty' springs and shockers.

If you're after an all conquering serious off road 4WD then you'll probably want to go down this path but if you're after a good on and off road performer with a decent ride then you can save a whole lot of money and potential grief.

Similarly with the winch, do you really need one for your intended use ? Most of the time they're an expensive and heavy boat anchor hanging off an equally heavy bull bar and about as useful as the equally 'de rigueur' brightly coloured sand mats that adorn the roofs of many 4WD's these days. On my original D2a I had an ECB alloy bull bar fitted which was actually lighter than the factory plastic and metal bumper assembly, on my current D2 I have an alloy (also ECB ) nudge bar which weighs very little. If you can get away without a winch you can save a lot of money and weight here as well as better handling and ride especially on corrugated/undulating outback roads if this is your thing.

If towing or carrying extra weight the extra stiffness of the standard King springs fitted with internal airbags gives the option of selective spring rate/ride height which can be restored to 'normal' for day to day cruising.

Basically what I'm saying is that the D2, even without the centre diff lock (though yours may be there for manual use if required :) ) is still a very capable 4WD out of the box and may not need a 2" lift/steel bull bar/winch etc to do what you require of it. IMO spending money on a rear ATB diff centre is a way better 'bang for buck' improvement to the off road capabilities of your vehicle.

Deano :)

[ballbag]

Don’t buy cheap suspension. Spend the extra $500 and be done with it and know you have the right gear.

My vehicle is heavily loaded - with King +2” standard duty front and heavy duty rear coils, the nose points slightly upward.

True +2” lift requires front crossmember to be spaced an inch from chassis rails so front prop shaft does not foul and mods/extentions to rear brake/ABS lines.

Some info here:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/252829-bilstein-2-994-995-brake-abs-lines-bump-stops-etc.html

[ballbag]

Wow, how did I do that?[emoji854]

[Kent_P]

Thank you very much to all who have contributed, I really appreciate it. It now looks like I have some things to ponder.

[Kent_P]

To further add some clarity, the Disco is mainly an on road car but when the holidays come around most of it is spent off road on places like Fraser as well as out West.

I know it is a capable truck in its stock form but I am just looking for a bit more out of it without going too insane.

[trout1105]

To further add some clarity, the Disco is mainly an on road car but when the holidays come around most of it is spent off road on places like Fraser as well as out West.

I know it is a capable truck in its stock form but I am just looking for a bit more out of it without going too insane.

I do a lot of beach driving (soft loose sand), rocky limestone tracks and bush boat ramps and I haven't done anything special to My D2a.
No lift or insane tyres fitted and I haven't come to grief yet.
All you really have to do is get rid of the road tyres and fit a decent set of AT's and you will be able to go pretty much anywhere you want as long as you run your tyre pressures to suit the terrain [thumbsupbig]
The D2's are Very capable trucks straight out of the box[bigrolf]

[Rok_Dr]

X2 trouts comments. If you are not going ultra hard core 4wding on the holidays then a stock height suspension upgrade will be fine. After 190k I upgraded my suspension to std king front coils and blistein shocks, just before doing a 7500km jaunt through central Australia (the rear still has air SLS). Main reason I did the springs was that I fitted an ARB bar to the front. Since then I’ve done a couple of hard 4wd days with no problems what so ever. The tyres are what came with the car when I bought it, 6 years ago, 245/70 R16 LT cooper AT3, currently they have about 65k on them with good tread remaining and no punctures at all.


I do a lot of beach driving (soft loose sand), rocky limestone tracks and bush boat ramps and I haven't done anything special to My D2a.
No lift or insane tyres fitted and I haven't come to grief yet.
All you really have to do is get rid of the road tyres and fit a decent set of AT's and you will be able to go pretty much anywhere you want as long as you run your tyre pressures to suit the terrain [thumbsupbig]
The D2's are Very capable trucks straight out of the box[bigrolf]

cheers
steve

[AK83]

.... and I haven't done anything special to My D2a.
....
The D2's are Very capable trucks straight out of the box[bigrolf]



Thank you very much to all who have contributed, I really appreciate it. It now looks like I have some things to ponder.

I think the most important point to ponder is why are you spending X amount of dollars and what do you expect that expense to 'help with'

First thing I'd be questioning, if I were in your situation, is:
Why the winch? That is, nothing wrong with having a winch, but why do you think you need it.
Note trout's reply, and note the vehicle he has. D2a's came out with a centre diff lock fitted(as I've read about) whereas the D2(your earlier model) didn't.
It's a bit unclear as to which models have the mechanism in the transfer case nose section to easily retrofit only the selector mechanism, and which may require the mechanism AND the transfer case nose cone.
My two D2's ('99 and '00) both have the CDL nose cones, my brothers '03 doesn't.
(we're in the slow process of transferring my parts D2's transfer case into brother's D2.
brother's D2 came with diff locks front and rear, but whoever had them fitted didn't bother to do the centre diff.
The result is that in some situations, his D2 will spin up either the front axle(both wheels) or the rear axle(both wheels) when the two difflocks are engaged, but the problem is the centre diff(can't be locked at all).
So it relies too heavily on the traction control to maintain grip. To keep moving in that situation he needs to keep hard on the right pedal to keep the wheels spinning till the traction control finally does it's thing, and the car then moves forward.
A CDL would eliminate all that mad wheel spinning!
An inexperienced operator would spin the wheels up as in his situation for about 20sec or so(as it did) and then begin the process of thinking that the winch is now needed(as he did, and has).
The locked centre diff would eliminate all that, process.

So the previous owner that had the two diff locks fitted didn't fully understand what would have been a more appropriate expenditure on the D2(that my brother now has).
That PO, would have been best advised to have the rear diff lock fitted, and instead of fitting the front locker, to have sourced a CDL kit for the transfer box instead!

So what I'd be questioning if I WERE in your situation is:
1: do I have the locking nose cone transfer case setup?
2: would the similar cost of getting the mechanism setup of a CDL offer any advantages over the cost of a winch.
I'd choose the CDL mechanism over the winch.

So check to see if you have the nose cone and or the mechanism for the selector lever.

[Kent_P]

I think the most important point to ponder is why are you spending X amount of dollars and what do you expect that expense to 'help with'

First thing I'd be questioning, if I were in your situation, is:
Why the winch? That is, nothing wrong with having a winch, but why do you think you need it.
Note trout's reply, and note the vehicle he has. D2a's came out with a centre diff lock fitted(as I've read about) whereas the D2(your earlier model) didn't.
It's a bit unclear as to which models have the mechanism in the transfer case nose section to easily retrofit only the selector mechanism, and which may require the mechanism AND the transfer case nose cone.
My two D2's ('99 and '00) both have the CDL nose cones, my brothers '03 doesn't.
(we're in the slow process of transferring my parts D2's transfer case into brother's D2.
brother's D2 came with diff locks front and rear, but whoever had them fitted didn't bother to do the centre diff.
The result is that in some situations, his D2 will spin up either the front axle(both wheels) or the rear axle(both wheels) when the two difflocks are engaged, but the problem is the centre diff(can't be locked at all).
So it relies too heavily on the traction control to maintain grip. To keep moving in that situation he needs to keep hard on the right pedal to keep the wheels spinning till the traction control finally does it's thing, and the car then moves forward.
A CDL would eliminate all that mad wheel spinning!
An inexperienced operator would spin the wheels up as in his situation for about 20sec or so(as it did) and then begin the process of thinking that the winch is now needed(as he did, and has).
The locked centre diff would eliminate all that, process.

So the previous owner that had the two diff locks fitted didn't fully understand what would have been a more appropriate expenditure on the D2(that my brother now has).
That PO, would have been best advised to have the rear diff lock fitted, and instead of fitting the front locker, to have sourced a CDL kit for the transfer box instead!

So what I'd be questioning if I WERE in your situation is:
1: do I have the locking nose cone transfer case setup?
2: would the similar cost of getting the mechanism setup of a CDL offer any advantages over the cost of a winch.
I'd choose the CDL mechanism over the winch.

So check to see if you have the nose cone and or the mechanism for the selector lever.Thanks for that AK83.

I should have specified in my earlier post but I didn't.

My D2 had the internals for the CDL and subsequently I had the CDL handle installed.

I can confirm that it works and it works bloody well [emoji106]

The winch is just something extra and just that added piece of mind so when trying out some new terrain.

[donh54]

I have a winch on the D1, only used to recover others, but not looking at fitting one on the D2. A shovel and a hand winch have multiple advantages over a fitted winch, apart from the initial cost.
Having to do some physical work to get out of a situation makes you take a bit better look at your proposed route [biggrin]
Also removes the need to beef up front suspension to lug all that weight around for the very brief occasions when you need it.
As has been stated already, the D2 with CDL is a very, very capable off-road vehicle. Tyre choices and pressure (and the shovel) will get you through most situations.
(Start Tongue-In-Cheek) Only the ToyNissMit brigade actually NEED to "improve" their suspension etc to make their vehicles moderately capable (End Tongue-in-cheek )

[trout1105]

I treat the winch on my D2a as an insurance policy when or if I have to use it to get myself out of strife it will have paid for itself in Spades, Meanwhile I have put it to good use getting others out of bogs, used it around the farm even used it to strain ringlock fences and it has proved invaluable when retrieving the boat on soft sandy beaches.
Fitted with synthetic rope my winch only weighs 27kg which is about the same as a second battery so it has very little impact on the front suspension.

[DeanoH]

I have a winch on the D1, only used to recover others, but not looking at fitting one on the D2. A shovel and a hand winch have multiple advantages over a fitted winch, apart from the initial cost.
Having to do some physical work to get out of a situation makes you take a bit better look at your proposed route [biggrin]
Also removes the need to beef up front suspension to lug all that weight around for the very brief occasions when you need it.
As has been stated already, the D2 with CDL is a very, very capable off-road vehicle. Tyre choices and pressure (and the shovel) will get you through most situations.
(Start Tongue-In-Cheek) Only the ToyNissMit brigade actually NEED to "improve" their suspension etc to make their vehicles moderately capable (End Tongue-in-cheek )

X2

Deano :)

[Kaaaiju]

Have an 99 D2 with CDL, Twin Locked and it goes everywhere with that combination, TC works very well, as for the winch I have an Aldi one which was $300 I think and have had it submerged in muddy waters pulling me out and others out, never missed an beat, It's all about what you use it for and that one moment you need it and it's there..

That's my 2 cents on it

[Kent_P]

Have an 99 D2 with CDL, Twin Locked and it goes everywhere with that combination, TC works very well, as for the winch I have an Aldi one which was $300 I think and have had it submerged in muddy waters pulling me out and others out, never missed an beat, It's all about what you use it for and that one moment you need it and it's there..

That's my 2 cents on itFunnily enough the bar that I purchased came with the 12000lb Aldi winch. It looks like a solid piece of kit and can't wait to give it a try!

[Kent_P]

Update:

After doing some further research it appears my best option for the springs is the King Springs KRFR-06.

In terms of shock absorbers, I am now thinking of running genuine Landrover ones as they have been good and have given me no issues in the time I've owned the D2.

I will need to purchase new ones because the stock ones are on their way out but would there be any reason these would not be suitable given the new springs and accessories?

Cheers again

[laney]

I used Dobinson springs and blisten shocks if you lift the car I'd doubt stock landrover shock will be up to the task .

[AK83]

Just had a peek and you don't really want to match raised springs with std shockers.
There's more likelihood of topping out the shocks and putting more strain on the eye's/bushes/shock internals .. etc.

So with raised springs, ideal you want matching longer travel shocks too.

[DeanoH]

I used Dobinson springs and blisten shocks if you lift the car I'd doubt stock landrover shock will be up to the task .


Just had a peek and you don't really want to match raised springs with std shockers.
There's more likelihood of topping out the shocks and putting more strain on the eye's/bushes/shock internals .. etc.
So with raised springs, ideal you want matching longer travel shocks too.


Fine theoretical generic advice but in this case not relevant.

Nothing wrong with Dobinson springs or Bilstien shocks BUT the +20mm lift the King springs KRFR 06 give is still within spec for the standard Landrover shocks which will give a MUCH better ride than the Bilstiens (and a hell of a lot cheaper). Sure Bilstiens are a great shock and have better fading characteristics than the OE shocks but the trade off is a comparatively harsh and uncomfortable ride for everyday use.

IMO the King springs/OE shockers will give a better all round result for the OP. This is exactly the same setup I have on my D2. It gives a slightly firmer even 'sporty' ride than standard but still comfortable for day to day use as well as being good for extended touring and non extreme off road performance. A good and cost effective off road/touring/daily drive combination.

Stock standard out of the box your D2 is a very good on and off road performer. I took my (then new) stock standard D2a across the Simpson Desert (twice) and towed a 1 tonne camper trailer along the Gibb River Road and up to Mitchell Falls. It did many more thousands of both on and off road touring/daily driving before upgrading/replacing the shockers. It still had the original springs when I sold it 250K Km and 10 years later.

It's probably worth replacing the 'fifth shock absorber' ie. steering damper at the same time. You'll be amazed at how good the new D2 will drive especially if you fit a decent set of HT or AT tyres. Avoid MT's for general purpose use, too harsh, too noisy and quick wearing.

Deano :)

[Slunnie]

Just had a peek and you don't really want to match raised springs with std shockers.
There's more likelihood of topping out the shocks and putting more strain on the eye's/bushes/shock internals .. etc.

So with raised springs, ideal you want matching longer travel shocks too.

This is key and I wholeheartedly support this comment. The OE rear shocks notably will not take a raised spring and they do top out. My experience of it are also with specifically the King Springs raised springs.

[Kent_P]

Ok thanks for the input AK83, DeanoH and Slunnie.

I have spoken to a good friend who is running Ultima Springs which have the following open/closed lengths 364/590 (front) and he hasn't been disappointed yet. Their warranty for 3 years or 100 000km is hard to pass up too!

The standard D2 ones are 370/580 front.

As for extended length shocks what sort of measurements should I be looking for open/closed?

Thanks

[ballbag]

Have a look at the link I posted earlier.

I’m not sure what Bilsteins Deano refers to but the 994/995 are like riding on a cloud. Check Les Richmond website for price etc.

[Kent_P]

Hi all,

Just a follow up.

I ended up going with King Springs KRFR-06 springs and Ultima 400511 shock absorbers.

With the aforementioned installed, the height from the centre of the wheel to the bottom of the guard is 500mm. It will settle after a bit of driving and end up being a bit lower.

A much needed upgrade over the stock setup. Much nicer to drive now!

Thank you everyone for you assistance!

[Adran]

Hi all,

Just a follow up.

I ended up going with King Springs KRFR-06 springs and Ultima 400511 shock absorbers.

With the aforementioned installed, the height from the centre of the wheel to the bottom of the guard is 500mm. It will settle after a bit of driving and end up being a bit lower.

A much needed upgrade over the stock setup. Much nicer to drive now!

Thank you everyone for you assistance!


Sorry for the necro-bump, was this fitted all round?

Got my d2 (non ace - sls model - coil converted) a year ago, about to get my arb bullbar fitted but have noticed my suspension is tired and will want to get that sorted soon.