Transmission - I suspect the worst!

[Ralph1Malph]

Well I've been having some trans trouble and I though I'd offer up for any advice.
Generally, I'm happy with the overall business of the trans.

However, lately, I've been getting a lot of F trans faults on the dash.
They've become more frequent recently, especially when reversing downhill out my drive first up for the day. Although it has happened on first D engagement of the day.

A few things have happened recently which I'll try to eliminate before I panic.

1. Brake light failure. I've heard about how non genuine globes can cause all sorts. I have in the last few days (when it became more frequent) Had a stop tail failure which I replaced with a non genuine.
I'll replace with genuine and see what happens.

2. Potential low fluid. It's due a fluid change, but as I wash underneath after every weekend of wheeling, I notice that there is some oil residue on some of the under body bits rear of the trans. Not enough to drip in the driveway but I'm sure it isn't engine oil. A flush and top up will sort that.

3. Brake pedal switch. Replaced some months ago with a genuine ford territory one![thumbsupbig]

4. 4x4 Driving. Couple of weekends ago we spent driving in mud and rain at a 4x4 park. Plus I like to use my karcher to clean up afterwards. Not much can be done about this, but maybe a thorough run after washing/wheeling may sufficiently dry out any wet connectors.

I have an IID Tool and have been recording some of the fault codes:

Transmission

• P0736-00 (ED) Reverse incorrect ratio
( on 16-02-2016 15:46:05 at 252934 km )

• P0730-00 (6D) Incorrect gear ratio
( on 19-02-2016 06:33:28 at 253054 km )

Dates obviously not correct, dunno how to fix that!

I'm interested in your thoughts but I fear the worst.

Cheers
RJ

[loanrangie]

For #1, all the globes are dual filament so swap a couple around so then you have all the same.
I never high pressure wash under my car, no probs on the D1 but not worth the risk on the D3.
Cant offer advice on the error codes but cant see how the ratio's can change, has the trans had a flush and pan upgrade ?

[matti4556]

A couple of thoughts come to mind Roger...
1. The "non-genuine" globe thing. I was originally of the opinion faults were caused by the "hanging" filament of a stop and tail globe dangling down and making intermittent contact with the other filament circuit that is not blown? The intermittent connection causes the errors where the car thinks the brakes are "on" during throttle application and throws a code. Perhaps someone closer to the real issue of tail light globes can clarify this for all and sundry? I technically cannot see how a non-genuine working globe of correct wattage can cause an issue. I can accept that perhaps a genuine globe may last longer (not blow a dangling filament), but the non-genuine globe thingy has started to reach urban myth proportions.
2. The only transmission fault codes ever thrown up by my D3 was after a pressure wash following a dirty weekend. Once the connectors in the vicinity of the tranny dried out - all was good. So I'm with #loanrangie on this one.

I'm starting to think your fluid levels are low??
Matti

[Disco-tastic]

Could be the brake switch under the centre console. There's a bunch of write ups on it - I haven't done it myself (yet).

Could also be low oil. If there's a leak then I would be getting it serviced Asap.

Are there any Judders/shudders when driving? Or does the engine hunt or idle or rev erratically both while still and while driving? If not I'm gonna guess its fluid or electrical gremlins. Maybe spray all of the connectors with some water dispersant.

[DiscoMick]

I'm not familiar with D3s. Is there a transmission filter which could be clogged and restricting oil flow?

[matti4556]

I'm not familiar with D3s. Is there a transmission filter which could be clogged and restricting oil flow?

Sure is Mick - Part of the pan. And don't tell Roger where you are going with this. He's nervous enough already! [bigwhistle]
See this description... 140217

[justinc]

Incorrect ratio faults are 100% due to the degredation of the transmission. Due to excessive clearances and or low line pressures which cause slow application of clutches.

Sorry about the bad news😣😣

[Disco-tastic]

Incorrect ratio faults are 100% due to the degredation of the transmission. Due to excessive clearances and or low line pressures which cause slow application of clutches.

Sorry about the bad news[emoji21][emoji21]Would low fluid cause those symptoms?

[Ralph1Malph]

Incorrect ratio faults are 100% due to the degredation of the transmission. Due to excessive clearances and or low line pressures which cause slow application of clutches.

Sorry about the bad news😣😣

The swear filter should have blocked this[bigsad][bigsad].

I've only done 255k!

Still, it's due for fluid change so I'll do that anyways.

As long as the degradation is gradual, it should last quite a few more km. Then I'll try to get a 3rd mortgage!

Cheers
Ralph

[DiscoMick]

Hope you get a good result. Make sure that transmission oil filter is changed.

[justinc]

The swear filter should have blocked this[bigsad][bigsad].

I've only done 255k!

Still, it's due for fluid change so I'll do that anyways.

As long as the degradation is gradual, it should last quite a few more km. Then I'll try to get a 3rd mortgage!

Cheers
Ralph

I was trying to be gentle actually....😣

Basically it is not if but when and it is unlikely at thus stage a service is going to help, rather push it over the edge😐

[justinc]

And 255k without strict service intervals is a good run from one of these! My 8hp70 has just clocked over 90k. Im looking at doing it asap but unlike the 6hp the lifeguard8 oil is pretty expensive even for me to buy it

[DiscoJeffster]

And 255k without strict service intervals is a good run from one of these! My 8hp70 has just clocked over 90k. Im looking at doing it asap but unlike the 6hp the lifeguard8 oil is pretty expensive even for me to buy it

I was thinking that given how many have been rebuilt around 200k that this one is doing ok. I’m convinced that towing 2 and 3 tonnes loads definitely contributes to their downfall, especially when services to LR standards.

Mine’s 250k and going well however it’s not towed much in its life. It was also not serviced until 200k km but I think it’s no towing previous life has saved me. Touch wood!

[justinc]

I was thinking that given how many have been rebuilt around 200k that this one is doing ok. I’m convinced that towing 2 and 3 tonnes loads definitely contributes to their downfall, especially when services to LR standards.

Mine’s 250k and going well however it’s not towed much in its life. It was also not serviced until 200k km but I think it’s no towing previous life has saved me. Touch wood!

The software etc for the 6 spd applies tge TC a lot like y ou know and this promotes amazing economy and driveability however like any clutxh, wwt or dry, clamping pressure is king. As soon as material wears away and glazing begins the the end is starting. Its this reason tgat using the correct oil is so important.

Subaru are also the same , their clutch materials and oils are designed to work together and using non genuine stuff with them is a recipe for disaster

[shanegtr]

My auto trans **** the biscuit just shy of @220,000km. Mine was a complete failure, but through my reading as soon as those incorrect gear ratio faults start appearing its rebuild time. Basically as has been mentioned already its a result of worn clutch packs not locking up as they should

[Ralph1Malph]

My auto trans **** the biscuit just shy of @220,000km. Mine was a complete failure, but through my reading as soon as those incorrect gear ratio faults start appearing its rebuild time. Basically as has been mentioned already its a result of worn clutch packs not locking up as they should

I may have to crowd fund it! I've just finished a reno and the treasury is empty...I mean real empty!!

I'll also start to look at some of the options used by others, eg, swapping for another unit or replacing with a D4 unit.

Cheers
RJ

[loanrangie]

There is a post on the US landrover forum where a guy rebuilt his at home.

Transmission rebuild - Land Rover Forums - Land Rover Enthusiast Forum (https://landroverforums.com/forum/lr3-28/transmission-rebuild-87764/)

[shanegtr]

I may have to crowd fund it! I've just finished a reno and the treasury is empty...I mean real empty!!


Is there ever a good time for a major $$$ rebuild? Always seems to line up with the worse times for me as well (although not nessasarily worse times $$$ wise, more worst times that we actually need the car)

[Ralph1Malph]

There is a post on the US landrover forum where a guy rebuilt his at home.

Transmission rebuild - Land Rover Forums - Land Rover Enthusiast Forum (https://landroverforums.com/forum/lr3-28/transmission-rebuild-87764/)

I could do that!

Cheers

Ralph

[Ralph1Malph]

Okies,
Small update. I finally made time to crawl under and have a look.
My leak is definitely not engine oil and is most likely trans fluid based on the fact it smells and looks like trans fluid and not tcase oil.
It has fully coated the cross member and the tcase appears clean.
Most worryingly, it has reached the 'slow drips' stage.
Whilst I have no doubt, this is not all of my trans problems, I am sure that it will be low on fluid which won't help.
I've owned the car 21/2 yrs, but done close to 50k and was always aware of a slight weep - which has now obviously progressed.
Experience tells me that if it drips when not in motion, it is spinning it out when in motion!

In other news, I also noticed a front drive shaft leak when under neath. Dammit!

Cheers
Ralph

[justinc]

Okies,
Small update. I finally made time to crawl under and have a look.
My leak is definitely not engine oil and is most likely trans fluid based on the fact it smells and looks like trans fluid and not tcase oil.
It has fully coated the cross member and the tcase appears clean.
Most worryingly, it has reached the 'slow drips' stage.
Whilst I have no doubt, this is not all of my trans problems, I am sure that it will be low on fluid which won't help.
I've owned the car 21/2 yrs, but done close to 50k and was always aware of a slight weep - which has now obviously progressed.
Experience tells me that if it drips when not in motion, it is spinning it out when in motion!

In other news, I also noticed a front drive shaft leak when under neath. Dammit!

Cheers
Ralph

First plan is to check the level. 8mm allen key on drivers side near the back of trans case. Idle at about 40degrees or so it needs to be trickling out on level ground. It is worth a try! My guess for the leak is the data sleeve, or if it has had a steel pan conversion then the pan gasket may be leaking

[Ralph1Malph]

First plan is to check the level. 8mm allen key on drivers side near the back of trans case. Idle at about 40degrees or so it needs to be trickling out on level ground. It is worth a try! My guess for the leak is the data sleeve, or if it has had a steel pan conversion then the pan gasket may be leaking

My guess is steel pan gasket.
AFAI can tell, all the oil and dirty area is real low on the trans, hence the tcase being pretty clean but not the cross member.
Will find out soon as the Indi has a look!

Cheers
RJ

[Ralph1Malph]

Here's a thought provoker!
I welcome your thoughts.

Having read many threads on this transmission, as well as many of the commonly available diagrams and tutorials, I reckon my hypothesis is this-:

Physically, the ZF 6HP26X can be fitted to a D3 from any donor make, if the PN is in the range 1068 020 xxx. (Possibly other ranges to but this hypothesis hasn't been tested by myself).
It is acknowledged that internally, there may be some nuance between internal manufacture, but the result (drive to Tcase) is/should be the same.

To get it to integrate with the rest of the D3 though, the mechatronic unit or at least the TCU needs to be swapped from a D3. (Again, it is 'possible' to flash a TCU, but I've not researched that bit yet).

Simplistic hypothesis, I know, but I am just thinking that it should be this simple. Theoretically, it should work.

Thoughts?
Ralph

[Ralph1Malph]

Orrighty. Had the trans rebuilt by a local business and picked up the chariot a couple of weeks ago.
Lordy me what a difference! Smooth as a babies bum!
PM if you want the business details or cost breakdown.
They used a genuine ZF rebuild kit and parts which included clutch plates, steels and bushes. They do a lot of ZF stuff so I was ok with them doing it.
Solenoids, separator plate and valves were also replaced. Retained my TCU.
Unfortunately, my TC couldn't be salvaged! A replacement from a wreck was acquired and it was then also rebuilt.
The cost? 5$k neat!
Would have been less but the replacement TC cost was absorbed by me up until my quoted 5k and the rest by the business owner. Would have been less that 5k but for that.

I had a chat to him and he believes I was close to catastrophic failure. Whilst the fluid was 'ok' for the km, (approx 60k), it was badly and noticeably contaminated with clutch material and bronze from the bushes.
Similarly, the TC drive and lockup plates had worn to steel in places. The TC vibration dampener had worn so badly the bushes and journals had flogged out, hence the plates wobbled thus rendering it un-repairable afaik.

All in all, an expensive exercise but I should now be trouble free for another 255k.
Yep, chariot has done 255k so I reckon it did ok.

Cheers RJ