TD5 viscous v electric, who's done it. what are the options? [Archive]

jezzarezza

15th May 2018, 08:17 PM

Hey gang,

thinking about getting my old man to help me put in an electric fan in place of the viscous on a TD5. Mine doesn't need doing at the moment, more of a preventative idea to make more reliable. I've also heard it can save a little on fuel

Has anyone else done this? good results? Could i please get some tips on options and where to buy? Thought I read a while ago someone used a falcon one, is that correct?

Should i hook it up to AC or have it kick in at set temp?

I searched a bunch of different wordings for this and couldn't find many answers. I get the feeling i'm not that good at the search function, I search under the D2 forum, still having trouble. I find it much easier to search on google, google seems to narrow the search field down a little. Feel free to give me some search tips too :bangin:

On a side note, Ive seen people replace the bleed T piece with a copper or (maybe) galv' T piece. Would i still be able to put the shop low coolant alarm in it? if so, does anyone know the thread type off hand?

Cheers

rangieman

15th May 2018, 08:36 PM

Why there is nothing wrong with a good working Td5 viscous fan[wink11]
You will still have the hub bearing that can fail but no biggy to fix.
Ps. dont ad different metals to the cooling system or it will end in tears stick with alloy or mild steel[thumbsupbig]

bsperka

15th May 2018, 09:20 PM

More reliable? I don't think so. And neither did the designers. And I love modifying vehicles when it makes sense.
Electrics can't pull more air than a hub fan unless they are big = lots of hp. You need airflow (lots of airflow) for the intercooler and radiator. A set of electric fans will make the engine quieter on startup though. On a petrol it makes sense, on a turbo diesel not so much. If you do go ahead tell us how it goes.

bsperka

15th May 2018, 09:22 PM

And use a set temperature, not the AC. AC fan also cuts in (I believe) when engine gets too hot.

Tombie

15th May 2018, 09:39 PM

Don’t do it.

No electric fan will move what the Standard fan does.

And you’ll move load from the fan to the alternator so no benefit.

Electric certainly aren’t more reliable, are less efficient, and add a complexity likely to fail when you need it most.

Tombie

15th May 2018, 09:40 PM

For the top hose you can buy a very strong Silicone one..

onebob

15th May 2018, 11:09 PM

For the top hose you can buy a very strong Silicone one..

Where from ..?

jezzarezza

16th May 2018, 08:57 AM

Thanks everyone, appreciate the input. Tombie, I'd also like to know where to get the silicone bleed/T-piece. Cheers :twobeers::BigThumb:

Tombie

16th May 2018, 09:45 AM

www.samcosport.com/manufacturer/land-rover/

Part TB-3051

Not cheap but you’ll only do it once!

AK83

16th May 2018, 10:03 AM

I wouldn't do an electric fan mod either, just based on the $ factor. A top line electric fan would probably cost more than the viscous/fan combo on a Td5 anyhow.
If you try a cheap alternative, you'll probably end up with a cheapo job that causes you no end of pain.

As for the top hose bleeder thingy, you can get nice quality silicon hose/aluminium bleeder port combos off ebay. Brother got his off ebay. Highly recommended mod on that dreadful plastic bleeder thing!
(V8 one is also plastic, but much stronger than the weeny TD5 bleeder screw).
His came apart(broke into two) trying to undo it to bleed it. small bit fell inwards! took far too much work to get it out before it could do any damage.

search ebay for TD5 silicon coolant hoses and you'll probably find both the built in bleeder types and the metal junction type sets.
They generally come from the UK.

This ebay listing (https://www.ebay.com.au/p/Silicone-Coolant-Radiator-Water-Hose-Kit-for-Discovery-2-Td5-Top-Bleed-Screw-ASI/595407128?iid=152694507330&chn=ps) is just the first one I got on a search. He didn't pay close to $700! tho .. about $300 and a bit for his set.

jezzarezza

16th May 2018, 10:46 AM

Thanks again. Re: bleeder hose, Before i go buy it can anyone please tell me if I already have a good one?

Cheers

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/05/226.jpg

SPROVER

16th May 2018, 11:51 AM

Thanks again. Re: bleeder hose, Before i go buy it can anyone please tell me if I already have a good one?

Cheers

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/05/226.jpgNope that's the plastic one.. pain in the rear if it breaks.

CraigE

16th May 2018, 12:35 PM

I would keep the viscous. However I have fitted 2 smaller Davies-Craig fans to the front of my radiator, can be done with minor mods. One is thermostatically set to cut in around 90 deg C and the second to come on with the air con.

DeanoH

16th May 2018, 12:39 PM

Hey gang,

....................... put in an electric fan in place of the viscous on a TD5. Mine doesn't need doing at the moment, more of a preventative idea to make more reliable....................
Cheers

As others have said, DON'T DO IT, the TD5 viscous fan assembly is already efficient and reliable. Downgrading it to electric is definitely a backward step as it decreases air flow, increases complexity and puts additional strain on the alternator/electrical system.

A couple of points though. Don't remove the fan shroud as this is important for efficiency and the viscous nut has a right hand thread :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/discovery-2-a/140274d1526441523-td5-viscous-v-electric-whos-done-what-options-226.jpg

Have a good look at the alloy aircon pipe as the rubber hose can actually wear through it where indicated. To help avoid this there should be a notch in the large diameter top hose which aligns with a 'rib' (on assembly) and helps to set a bit of a twist in the main hose lifting the smaller hose above the alloy air con pipe.

Deano :)

manic

16th May 2018, 01:33 PM

Not sure how suitable an e.fan is for TD5 but benefits of thermo switched e.fan over belt driven:

Faster warm up time

Runs only when needed

Can be mounted to rad to efficiently pull air through the rad without need for a huge fan and cowl.

Cant throw a belt

Can be turned off for water crossings

Slight fuel/HP saving (negligable)

Reliable

------

I have experience with TDIs, mostly with standard belt driven fans but one with e.fan. The electric fan on the Defender was put on in 2010, a generic 180w rad fan off ebay - nothing special. Its still going strong and has been dunked and gunked numerous times. It runs off the x-eng switch kit which hasnt failed me either.

These engines are water cooled and the e.fan does an excellent job of pulling air through the radiator when mounted right on the core. The factory belt driven fan moves more air, but then it has to in order pull air through the rad from distance.

I know this forum is pro viscous, but my experience with the e.fan on the TDI over the past 8 years has been super positive. It has not threatened to over heat even on roasting hot days in low range and the fan has been 100% reliable with zero maintenance required.

IME with the TDIs, overheating checks involve the viscous hub. But usually its rad condition, w.pump, coolant loss that leads to over heat - not the fan. The e.fan has never left me wondering, when it fires up I hear it, a dash light goes on and any upward motion on the temp guage is immediatly arrested.

That said I have no plans to convert my other TDI to e.fan, there is no need for it.

Tombie

16th May 2018, 01:49 PM

jezzarezza

16th May 2018, 02:04 PM

Thanks again everyone. With all the don't do it's i'm starting to realise why I had trouble finding a thread. Manic, thanks for your input as well.

jezzarezza

16th May 2018, 02:10 PM

www.samcosport.com/manufacturer/land-rover/ (http://www.samcosport.com/manufacturer/land-rover/)

Part TB-3051

Not cheap but you’ll only do it once!

Thanks again Tombie. Is that just the top hose? I scant seem to find a description, or photo/diagram on that link. Also, do you know if i'll be able to fit the shop/daves low coolant screw into it? I'm just about to pull the trigger on both

cheers

jezzarezza

16th May 2018, 02:14 PM

As others have said, DON'T DO IT, the TD5 viscous fan assembly is already efficient and reliable. Downgrading it to electric is definitely a backward step as it decreases air flow, increases complexity and puts additional strain on the alternator/electrical system.

A couple of points though. Don't remove the fan shroud as this is important for efficiency and the viscous nut has a right hand thread :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/discovery-2-a/140274d1526441523-td5-viscous-v-electric-whos-done-what-options-226.jpg

Have a good look at the alloy aircon pipe as the rubber hose can actually wear through it where indicated. To help avoid this there should be a notch in the large diameter top hose which aligns with a 'rib' (on assembly) and helps to set a bit of a twist in the main hose lifting the smaller hose above the alloy air con pipe.

Deano :)

Cheers mate :twobeers:

manic

16th May 2018, 03:17 PM

Cowlings provide a far superior flow than a surface contact eFan with a cowling.. almost in the order of twice the flow!

You also have an intercooler that even when the fan isn’t engaged fully is helping draw air through.

Comparing a low BMEP tdi to a high BMEP TD5 isn’t a comparison either - Tdi generates far less heat.

The way I see it these engines have radiators and cooling systems sized up for the engines requirements, but both pull air with a similar size fan+cowl set up, turning similar RPMs, pulling similar amounts of air through cores that are similar in thickness. A TD5 full width radiator would probably require two e.fans to effectively cover the surface area, where as the TDI only needs one on its smaller rad. So considering this, its possible a dual e.fan set up on the TD5 could give similar results to my single fan TDI set up.

I would need to see data before completely accepting that a belt-fan+cowl actually draws twice the flow through the radiator than my e.fan set up. Considering my setup has been tested over many years in all types of conditions with a temp guage (vdo coolant, and CH surface sensor) plus over-temp alarm (that has never gone off), I'd be amazed if it was all achieved with only half the amount of airflow through the radiator. If that's the case, then the belt-fan is using twice as much power than it needs to (on a TDI) , hugely oversized.

Its easy to see a belt-fan is capable of moving more air, its huge, but I'm not convinced the cowling set up is that efficient. For example, in the Puma Defenders there is a mod for the fan that moves it deeper into the cowling to improve its ability to pull air through the radiator. If I had a way of measuring, it would be interesting to compare the actual airflow pulled in from front of rad on my two setups, stock vs e.fan.

Fair point on the intercooler, ideally you would prefer to have air pulled through the IC even at idle/low-speed/low-temps, which the belt-fan does. Although with gaps between the Rad/IC/Condenser, a good chunk of that draw would bypass the IC. Likely negligible effect on EGT/Performance.

djam1

16th May 2018, 06:19 PM

Great mod in the UK but not something a working 4x4 should have in Australian

trout1105

16th May 2018, 06:35 PM

The way I see it these engines have radiators and cooling systems sized up for the engines requirements, but both pull air with a similar size fan+cowl set up, turning similar RPMs, pulling similar amounts of air through cores that are similar in thickness. A TD5 full width radiator would probably require two e.fans to effectively cover the surface area, where as the TDI only needs one on its smaller rad. So considering this, its possible a dual e.fan set up on the TD5 could give similar results to my single fan TDI set up.

I would need to see data before completely accepting that a belt-fan+cowl actually draws twice the flow through the radiator than my e.fan set up. Considering my setup has been tested over many years in all types of conditions with a temp guage (vdo coolant, and CH surface sensor) plus over-temp alarm (that has never gone off), I'd be amazed if it was all achieved with only half the amount of airflow through the radiator. If that's the case, then the belt-fan is using twice as much power than it needs to (on a TDI) , hugely oversized.

Its easy to see a belt-fan is capable of moving more air, its huge, but I'm not convinced the cowling set up is that efficient. For example, in the Puma Defenders there is a mod for the fan that moves it deeper into the cowling to improve its ability to pull air through the radiator. If I had a way of measuring, it would be interesting to compare the actual airflow pulled in from front of rad on my two setups, stock vs e.fan.

Fair point on the intercooler, ideally you would prefer to have air pulled through the IC even at idle/low-speed/low-temps, which the belt-fan does. Although with gaps between the Rad/IC/Condenser, a good chunk of that draw would bypass the IC. Likely negligible effect on EGT/Performance.

The cooling system in the D2 is designed for European conditions Not Australian conditions and Maybe you would get away with using an E-Fan over there But here in Aus they are a recipe for disaster.
The cooling system is barely adequate for Australian conditions as it is and that is why it is vital to maintain the cooling system is 100% effective here.
Bypassing the factory thermostat and fitting an "in Line" unit to make the cooling system more effective seems to work (at the expense of the heaters) But reducing the amount of airflow through the radiator by using E-Fans is Not a good idea.

Bazzle218

16th May 2018, 07:51 PM

The cooling system in the D2 is designed for European conditions Not Australian conditions and Maybe you would get away with using an E-Fan over there But here in Aus they are a recipe for disaster.
The cooling system is barely adequate for Australian conditions as it is and that is why it is vital to maintain the cooling system is 100% effective here.
Bypassing the factory thermostat and fitting an "in Line" unit to make the cooling system more effective seems to work (at the expense of the heaters) But reducing the amount of airflow through the radiator by using E-Fans is Not a good idea.

Hi is there a link for this inline thermo, i can live in Nth QLD , heat not an issue. Baz

AK83

16th May 2018, 08:03 PM

Personally, I'm not against e-fans, I had good success with them for over 10 years on my RRC with it's worn motor(600+K klms), and running a dodgy rad(rusted) for two years during that 10 year period.
Once I replaced the rad with a new one, I only ever had one heating up moment crossing the Finke river sand bog(at Finke), but it soon settled back fine. Problem was I wasn't expecting it to be so slow half way through and got caught out in high range, instead of low range. Lost a fair bit of oil leaking through front main seal too .. I just majorly stuffed up at that moment.
Only reason I ran my twin 12" fans was due to getting fed up with expensive viscous unit(way back then) needing replacement every 50-100K or so.

The major downside of e-fans is that when they fail, you're stuck with nothing, and murphy's law will dictate they they fail when you need it the most.
With a viscous, you whack in a tek screw and lock it hard, and you get home at least.

But overall I'm not inherently against e-fans .. just that you need to work out which one will do the job.
the majority of cars running about nowadays use electric fans, so it's not like they don't work!

When I did my twin electric conversion in my RRC, not being smart in any way back then .. and doing it 'rough and cut' .. I didn't account for the amount of current they required to run, when they ran.
Add high wattage headlights, and high wattage spots on the bullbar, and the poor little 60A alternator couldn't cope on a hot humid night coming back from Ayers Rock.
I could see the lights getting dimmer as the current draw, was more than the alternator could replenish!
(got a Bosch 80A to fix that .. but the point is if you do it just because you can, as opposed to do it in a well researched and thought out manner .. you get caught out in one way or another!

I also don't ascribe to the theory that the cowl does as much as folks think they do.
I've been running my Tdi without for over a year now(as I broke mine). I haven't had any heating up issues that I haven't had with it on either.
I've worked out on my Tdi that the two biggest air flow restrictions on the D1, are the grille and more so the twin electric fan design on the A/C condenser.

It's much colder weather now, so grille and A/C fans are back on, but before next summer, I'm looking to remove those A/C e-fans and replace with something less restrictive.

With the Td5 tho, you have so much more heated material(intercooler, A/C and gearbox cooler) ahead of the coolant radiator, you're going to need a monumentally powerful electric fan ... well over 40A and more likely 60+ ... and as already said will just put that load back on the motor in the form of alternator draw.
The Tdi is less complicated. I've thought about it, but the money spent won't be worth any gain, if any was available.

ps. the fuel saving in my RRC(79, no A/C) was about 1/2 to 1km/lt with the e-fans. I highly doubt you'd see anything like that on a diesel.

manic

17th May 2018, 02:37 PM

The cooling system in the D2 is designed for European conditions Not Australian conditions and Maybe you would get away with using an E-Fan over there But here in Aus they are a recipe for disaster.

You know there are places in Europe that get bloody hot. I'm now thinking of a 40C drive through Greece. My experience is that the right e.fan setup can deliver even at 40C in Australia (I tested mine on the hottest day of the year 40+C, highway run to state park, then low range).

Disclosure:
- I do not tow
- I do not run AC
- My success is with a TDI Defender, not a TD5 Discovery.
- Generally I would not recommend fitting an e.fan to replace the belt-fan.

Seeing as members of this forum default to slamming any discussion on e.fans, I felt compelled to offer my own experiences to show that there are some applications where they can be used to effectively keep a diesel at temperature, even here in Australia. But really, unless you need to clear space in the engine bay or have some twisted sense of fun - just keep the belt drive!

Now I'll put this out there, some e.fan installs are rubbish, so if you do feel the urge to experiment with e.fans try and do it right! On a TD5, perhaps skip past the universal ones you can order online. These include kenlowe/flex-a-lite/derale/etc. At 16" these fans will pull around 12-20amps. For my TDI application this has been enough (I'm pulling 17amps), but if you go to the wreckers you can find fans that pull around 30-40 amps at full speed.

Consider the fan found on the Vovlo 850 (1990s), this comes with a two speed relay and pulls around 15-20amps at LOW speed! At full speed its up around 40 amps. Its a monster. If you could attach a couple of 16" Volvo fans to a healthy TD5 rad would these fans ever need to go past the low run setting? There is also a Ford twin fan set up that is supposedly a beast puller, I cant remember which exact model/variant but if you can test a few at the yard through an ammeter, you'll get to know what's what.
For install, do not attach the fan with zip ties through the core!! (confession: I have done this before :bangin:). Fab a plate/shroud over the radiator frame and attach the fan so that it is positioned close to the radiator. The shroud should be completely sealed to the frame so that all of the air is pulled through the core (seal all gaps). If any significant areas of the core are blocked by the shroud, cut slots and cover with a rubber flap. These flaps should blow open at speed, and seal shut when the fan is doing all the pulling.

Now if anyone in Australia has any success with a TD5 on efans, keep it to yourself - no one will believe you. :bat:

Tombie

17th May 2018, 03:19 PM

Efans have their place. Their place is not on a TD5!

Unless you fully shroud them like the pics below (spaced away from the face of the radiator so they draw through the entire surface) they are hopeless.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/05/234.jpg

Then factor power requirements, air through intercooler (you’d need one always on at a minimum), the drag on the engine via the alternator and you’re adding potential issues.

manic

17th May 2018, 04:27 PM

air through intercooler (you’d need one always on at a minimum), the drag on the engine via the alternator and you’re adding potential issues.

Why would you need a fan on the intercooler? The intercooler only really comes into effect when the turbo is pushing boost and thats almost always at speed when the airflow through the IC is greater than any fan. I've never seen EGTs go anywhere near alarm high on a trail in low range with a fanless IC. Sure it would help dissipate some residual heat at low speed but would that translate to any real world performance increase - I doubt it. Happy to be proved wrong, I could always do with more power!

Drag on the engine from a locked up viscous fan probably compares somewhat to the drag through a 120amp+ alternator when pulling high amps. But e.fans are only on when needed, and a two or three stage fan set up could help manage those loads better.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdLgaFXZzs)

trout1105

17th May 2018, 04:39 PM

Drag on the engine from a locked up viscous fan probably compares somewhat to the drag through a 120amp+ alternator when pulling high amps. But e.fans are only on when needed, and a two or three stage fan set up could help manage those loads better.

The viscus fan only locks up when it is needed, It doesn't run all the time.
The extra draw on the alternator from the high amperage needed to run enough fans to do the same job as the viscus fan wouldn't help with the longevity of the alternator and at night with a couple of decent spotlights running the amperage needed for the e-fans could exceed the output of the alternator I would imagine.
Why reinvent the wheel when the viscus fan does the job very well anyway and is a lot easier to replace, more reliable than e-fans and No modifications whatsoever are needed to fit them.

Tombie

17th May 2018, 04:53 PM

Good video, aside from audio sync at some points!

Wouldn’t last 5 minutes of scrutiny in an office at work.

No measurement of airflow
No heat in the equation - the plastic flex fan for example, needs warmth to become for flexible.

Flex blade goes on to prove their claims are rubbish though!

We’re not here to build drag racers, we’re here to run 4wds... heavily loaded, lugging up hills at up to legal highway speeds, in deserts, through creeks etc..

I’ve personally witnessed several efans die (fail to start) after a water crossing. And mud into them is a nightmare.

manic

17th May 2018, 05:02 PM

The viscus fan only locks up when it is needed, It doesn't run all the time.
The extra draw on the alternator from the high amperage needed to run enough fans to do the same job as the viscus fan wouldn't help with the longevity of the alternator and at night with a couple of decent spotlights running the amperage needed for the e-fans could exceed the output of the alternator I would imagine.
Why reinvent the wheel when the viscus fan does the job very well anyway and is a lot easier to replace, more reliable than e-fans and No modifications whatsoever are needed to fit them.

Indeed, in this case, why do it. But if you did, its fair to question a few things.

Reliability: well it turns out e-motors are damn reliable, I've had to replace a viscous fan but never an e.fan. We have a Saab 900 1993 which still has its original fans and they still turn without a rumble and even look good as new! Sure, its not been dunked in a river, but the fan on my Defender has numerous times - and its not far off 10 years old now.

Easier to replace: Well actually the efan is easier. Simply unplug un-srew and replace. Fans are available at supercheap auto if you need one desperately, a viscous fan or even a land rover drive belt is probably not. Also without all that fan and shroud action in front of your engine, a whole load of service tasks are made easier.

No mods: Well you have that one. I like to keep cars original too, the Defender TDI is the exception which I've enjoyed modifying. The goal was to build my ultimate Defender and for me the e.fan set up has been great and has opened up the engine bay to accommodate other modifications.

Tombie

17th May 2018, 05:06 PM

You can find many tales of heating issues with electric on td5s and V8s on Pirate4x4, The Za Landrover site.

The old tdi oilers don’t seem to suffer.

trout1105

17th May 2018, 05:08 PM

The goal was to build the ultimate Defender and for me the e.fan set up has been great and has opened up the engine bay to accommodate other modifications.

I wonder how long your E-fan "Ultimate defender" would survive without the use of a flat top up in Cape York or up in the Territory during the wet[bigwhistle]
Maybe it would run perfectly in the City But that isn't what Defenders are designed to do best.

Tombie

17th May 2018, 05:08 PM

Why would you need a fan on the intercooler? The intercooler only really comes into effect when the turbo is pushing boost and thats almost always at speed when the airflow through the IC is greater than any fan. I've never seen EGTs go anywhere near alarm high on a trail in low range with a fanless IC. Sure it would help dissipate some residual heat at low speed but would that translate to any real world performance increase - I doubt it. Happy to be proved wrong, I could always do with more power!

Drag on the engine from a locked up viscous fan probably compares somewhat to the drag through a 120amp+ alternator when pulling high amps. But e.fans are only on when needed, and a two or three stage fan set up could help manage those loads better.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdLgaFXZzs)

Boost, Low Range, Rpm.. [emoji848]

shack

17th May 2018, 05:15 PM

Whilst an electric fan is probably a bad idea for this application (we have tried them on various "industrial strength" type applications in the past, with less than impressive performance)
I do wonder what an electrically engaged fan would perform like in this situation, obviously no good with an intercooler, but obviously have good Application and success in the trucking industry

manic

17th May 2018, 05:18 PM

I wonder how long your E-fan "Ultimate defender" would survive without the use of a flat top up in Cape York or up in the Territory during the wet[bigwhistle]
Maybe it would run perfectly in the City But that isn't what Defenders are designed to do best.

It went from Melbourne to the Tip of Cape York and back not many months ago. Done in 5 weeks. The Disco with us rolled just outside Bamaga and the Defender had to cart all its kit back to Melbourne when it was already heavy loaded. It was packed to the rafters and then onto the roof! It done the old telegraph track, all the crossing, got covered in mud and the only issue suffered was the starter motor packed in from all the water exposure! But even that didnt stop it, being the ultimate defender it just needed a little push start to roll back into action. [biggrin]

You know its only really ever used for big trips around the country, I have a log book to prove it. It goes out on trips that aim to stay off the bitumen as much as possible, and I love to take it to remote areas. And you know what - no flat tops yet! *touches wood*

With the efan positioned behind the radiator the radiator is more likely to fill with mud than the rad fan! It is very hard to get mud flung up the back of the radiator.

Tombie

17th May 2018, 05:18 PM

Our Pit Haulers use hydraulically driven fans.

No electric set up can match the cfm of a shrouded hard driven fan on the same size radiator.

djam1

17th May 2018, 05:25 PM

manic

17th May 2018, 05:37 PM

I find the claim that an efan is quicker to replace laughable.
I can remove the viscous fan from my TD5 in less than 2 minutes and that includes lifting the bonnet
Sorry to tell some of you guys but 40 degrees c is not hot by Australian standards. I have seen over 50 at 0900 in summer

Well perhaps its similar then, I can remove my e.fan in less than 2 minutes too, and all I would need to do it is a screwdriver. I could also carry a spare without taking up to much room.

Oh damn, we up to 50C ambient now! I'll be sure to record it if I ever experience temps that high. I plan to take a D1 and Def TDI down the west coast next year from Darwin, the D1 has viscous. If you lot are lucky, we'll get put to the test.

djam1

17th May 2018, 05:48 PM

With the Defender you might be wise to do the tropical mod to the radiator to help if it’s in summer.
No we are not up to 50 that Was around 0900 it got much hotter later not wanting a competition on how hot it’s been just making the point driving around Melbourne at 40 Degrees C is different than pulling fully loaded through deep sand at 60 odd degrees ground temp with a tail wind and a partially blocked radiator
For some this is at times a reality

If your efan can be removed that quickly I hope the corrugated roads don’t do it for you

manic

17th May 2018, 06:38 PM

If you efan can be removed that quickly I hope the corrugated roads donÂ’t do it for you

:) I really appreciate all these concerns. Its a shame I cant entertain you all with tails of e.fan woe. It would be funny if it fell off. I've hammered the crap out of this landy on corrugated roads so I know how to do things up. What has fallen off over the years? hmmm... nothing worth remembering. I did crack the instrument panel off its mounts and shook the door cards loose, had to gaffer it down for the rest of the trip!

With the Defender you might be wise to do the tropical mod to the radiator to help if itÂ’s in summer.
No we are not up to 50 that Was around 0900 it got much hotter later not wanting a competition on how hot itÂ’s been just making the point driving around Melbourne at 40 Degrees C is different than pulling fully loaded through deep sand at 60 odd degrees ground temp with a tail wind and a partially blocked radiator
For some this is at times a reality

I hear you. And I have these concerns too, my decision to switch to e.fan was a calculated one. If I were to plan for a trip through the desert where peak 50C temps were expected I would service my cooling system, perhaps do the tropical mod you suggest, carry less kit and upgrade my e.fan from 180w to a two stage 360w and be very confident with it. But really I'd much rather pick a cooler time of year ( perhaps a chilly 40C ).

In 10 years the only high temp issues I have had have been caused by coolant loss (hose split, water pump). I maintain a good radiator, have replaced it a few times, and if I had a partially blocked rad, I would unblock it as a priority. This is not a work vehicle, its not a daily driver, so I have the luxury of setting up the car for each trip and picking where I take it and when. Honestly, I doubt I will ever need to reinstate the viscous fan. My TDI, the way it runs, it just doesn't need it. E.fans - its not all bad :)

jezzarezza

17th May 2018, 09:59 PM

haha, I think I may have opened a can of worms.

Thanks for the input everyone.

I've emailed the company that you recommended Tombie, no reply back yet about if Dave's low coolant alarm screw will fit into the new hose. maybe I should send dave a message as well? will he know the product? the low coolant alarm has been on my shopping list since I bought the car a couple months ago. I want to have it. I've had a couple cars overheat and i'm not getting bitten again. The first car was my own fault, the second was manufacturers (arguably mine as well, TBH I wasn't watching the temp gauge like a hawk on that trip like I should have been but I doubt many people watch it that closely) but if i'd had a low coolant alarm on the second the damage would have been far less.

jezzarezza

18th May 2018, 09:44 AM

www.samcosport.com/manufacturer/land-rover/ (http://www.samcosport.com/manufacturer/land-rover/)

Part TB-3051

Not cheap but you’ll only do it once!

hey mate just thought I'd quote you on this so that you can see the above reply and if you know the answers

cheers

jezzarezza

18th May 2018, 06:27 PM

So the original size bleed screw is different to the samco version for anyone that’s interested. Samco have a 5mm thread

Tombie

18th May 2018, 06:29 PM

Just spotted this notification

Seems you found your answer.

sierrafery

19th May 2018, 06:32 AM

I've just found this thread, i can tell that i tried 3 kind of e-fans on my td5 and non of them had enough guts at 35*C... one was a Revotec sold in UK as dedicated for the Td5, this was the worst but the most expensive, got the ECT to 110 in no time then i tried a german universal but stronger fan with the same result and in the end a big russian 600W fan which was the best but still not enough to keep the ECT under 100 like the viscous does.... i strongly discourage everyone against this mod on a Td5 where the ambient temps can rise above 30*C.... just wasted money and energy IMO.

manic

19th May 2018, 10:08 AM

Sierrafery with experience! Did you keep a photo of the install by any chance? Was it a DII?

Just looked at the revotech offerings, one flat blade fan (16 inch?) on a frame with holes in it. Looks like it would pull some of its air from the engine bay! Absolute rubbish!

I reckon another issue to consider is pressure build up and lack of natural flow through the engine bay. A D2 engine bay looks more restrictive than a Defenders, in either case a viscous fan is more likely to overcome those restrictions.

So if it can be done on a D2 TD5, it would need maximum fan coverage of the core, on a proper sealed shroud, twin speed fan(s) up to around 400w, AND perhaps some extra vents out of the engine bay in low pressure zones to facilitate flow through the engine bay.

So yeah, for the sensible this all translates to: too much mod/expense/time for very little if any gain.

But if you had to cool a TD5 without the viscous, it could probably be done.

DiscoMick

19th May 2018, 10:21 AM

When the electric fans on our D1 300Tdi died on the Telegraph Track, we were able to remove the driving lights to just get enough airflow so the viscous fan could keep the engine cool enough to drive it home. Without the viscous fan, it would have been an expensive tow job. So I recommend you keep the viscous.
Interestingly, British OffRoad fitted a used set of Ford Falcon fans to our D1, which worked fine. I'm not sure of your situation, but might that be an option for you?

manic

19th May 2018, 10:36 AM

Tombie

19th May 2018, 10:52 AM

Manic - and you don’t think I’ve had these experiences?
Tried and tested these types of device to see what happens?

If I told you sticking your hand in front of an oxy flame would burn you would you need to experience it to understand that it would hurt?

There are calculations that can be done to confirm the cooling air movement required and the pull or push efficiency of fans. Knowing these can provide all the answers - which can then be verified by a real world test.

Simply - a fully shrouded eFan is good for about 2500cfm at full song. A correctly shrouded driven fan is good for that at just on idle and goes up to 5000cfm at full speed.

The other myth is engine warm up time - this is the thermostats task, the only marginal cooling a driven fan is doing is a bit of air across the motor.

And whilst on that - guess what happens to under bonnet temps with efans and no driven fan; it’s higher!
This was tested on one of my vehicles with thermocouples in the engine bay.

Tombie

19th May 2018, 10:54 AM

DiscoMick

19th May 2018, 03:26 PM

Mick, are you talking about the ac condender fans? They only come on with AC or if your motor is overheating. Basically without AC on, those fans shouldnt be required. Was your radiator blocked up by any chance?Yes, that's them. Couldn't run the air-con without them. They didn't like the water, although the air con was off for crossings. Radiator was new.

manic

19th May 2018, 05:18 PM

Manic - and you don’t think I’ve had these experiences?
Tried and tested these types of device to see what happens?

I've not disagreed with the general consensus in this thread. I'm interested to hear of any experience with e.fans on a TD5, including yours, how far you took it, etc. And whilst the e.fan mod is not advised for a number of valid reasons, someone may still have an angle on it. Discussing ways in which it could be attempted, after considering the experiences of others, makes for interesting conversation - I think.

The contributions in this thread have convinced me that simply removing the belt-fan and bolting an off the shelf efan kit to a TD5 is not going to be good enough. But if the challenge was set, might someone come up with something that works, or would you say it is entirely impossible?

trout1105

19th May 2018, 06:40 PM

I've not disagreed with the general consensus in this thread. I'm interested to hear of any experience with e.fans on a TD5, including yours, how far you took it, etc. And whilst the e.fan mod is not advised for a number of valid reasons, someone may still have an angle on it. Discussing ways in which it could be attempted, after considering the experiences of others, makes for interesting conversation - I think.

The contributions in this thread have convinced me that simply removing the belt-fan and bolting an off the shelf efan kit to a TD5 is not going to be good enough. But if the challenge was set, might someone come up with something that works, or would you say it is entirely impossible?

I don't think that anyone has said it is impossible.
many have said it is unnecessary (myself included) Then you have to think about is it economically viable and is it actually worthwhile going to the expense and effort in the first place.