How do you drive a Puma

[bln]

Hi all,
For the past 20 years I have driven automatics - mainly Discos. I currently have a D4 but I have always had an un-controllable desire and longing to own a Defender. We have been doing remote trips for quite a few years now in the discos but for many reasons we decided to purchase a Defender and make this our expedition vehicle. After only 3 months of ownership I love it. We are planning to do the Madigan Line in a couple of weeks and it has occurred to me that I have never driven the Puma 'offload' so would like to get your opinion on how to drive it: eg low range or high range, CDL locked or not, gears to use. Here are some scenarios:-

1. Oodnadatta Track - Mostly good dirt road with some corrugations - CDL on or off, what speed?
2. Into Mt Dare - rocky/stoney, corrugated - pretty bad track
3. Simpson Desert - sand and sand hills - CDL locked, Low or High range, what gears
4. Big Red - best set-up to get over the top.
5. Does the Traction Control still work when the CDL is locked?

I guess I'll soon find out but it would be great to hear from the experienced defender drivers. I'm also going with some friends who have a toyboy 200 series and I don't want to get stuck as fellow LR drivers would understand haha.

Thank you
Bruce

[jon3950]

I've not too long ago come from a Disco myself. If you can drive a Disco off-road, you can drive a Defender. The basics are all the same. The only difference is you need to think about what gear to be in ahead of each obstacle, eg for a whole climb up a hill rather than being able to change gears mid climb. You need to think about how much speed/momentum you will need for a given obstacle and select accordingly. This will come easily with practice. Off-road 2nd and 3rd low seem to be the most used for me, but that's a bit of a generalisation.

Use of low range will be similar to the Disco. I tend to drop in to low when speeds drop below about 40km/h - again a bit of a generalisation.

We've just had a whole thread on use of the CDL so I won't say too much. I tend to lock it when I hit the dirt if its a little slippery but it depends on the situation. Certainly it always gets locked once we are "off-road".

As for speeds, I suggest you take it a little easier than in the Disco, but you'll feel that. For something like the Oodnadatta track, probably around 80km/h will be right but it very much depends on current conditions. I find 80 a comfortable cruising speed on most good dirt roads, but again this is a generalisation. I tend to take it easy out there and enjoy the view.

A Defender doesn't handle corrugations like a Disco so keep the speed and tyre pressures down. The rear will bounce around a little more and tend to come unstuck and slide down the road camber - no big deal but again it doesn't handle like a Disco.

Can't comment on the Simpson or Big Red specifically as I haven't done them in the Defender yet. Can let you know in August.

Best advice I can give is just take it easy and get a feel for it. Travel at a pace you are comfortable with and don't bust a gut just to keep up with the Toyotas. The old adage of "as slow as possible, as fast as necessary" is very apt in a Defender.

If you love driving your Defender now, you'll love driving it out there. They just feel right.

Cheers,
Jon

[MLD]

Hi all,
For the past 20 years I have driven automatics - mainly Discos. I currently have a D4 but I have always had an un-controllable desire and longing to own a Defender. We have been doing remote trips for quite a few years now in the discos but for many reasons we decided to purchase a Defender and make this our expedition vehicle. After only 3 months of ownership I love it. We are planning to do the Madigan Line in a couple of weeks and it has occurred to me that I have never driven the Puma 'offload' so would like to get your opinion on how to drive it: eg low range or high range, CDL locked or not, gears to use. Here are some scenarios:-

1. Oodnadatta Track - Mostly good dirt road with some corrugations - CDL on or off, what speed? CDL off (unless immediately post rain and you are on the track before it's closed), can cruise up to 100 km/h with air pressure at 26psi
2. Into Mt Dare - rocky/stoney, corrugated - pretty bad track CDL off (repeat rain comment), you won't want to drive much faster than 60 km/h on that track and why would you and miss the scenery. Same psi
3. Simpson Desert - sand and sand hills - CDL locked, Low or High range, what gears CDL locked, high range. 14 to 16 psi (lower the better, within reason). You'll work out your gears pretty quick. In the defender I putted over all but big red in high first. i found going slower was better to give the suspension a chance to move under you. The track is cut up on the face of the dune from people bouncing up with spinning tyres.A mate is a D4 in the Simpson had to take the hills with more speed due to the way the suspension is set up and the way traction control intervened when the car thought it was bogging down.
4. Big Red - best set-up to get over the top. the steepest section there is no substitute for speed. I found the gearing was wrong to get the balance between speed and torque once you get near the top to keep momentum. If you try to down shift once you start to climb you lose momentum and stop before the crest. the closest i got was for my front tyres to crest but my bum was left hanging (i was easily 3.5 tonne). There is a track off to the right that you will walk up in first high. i cleared right hand side hill dragging a 79 series who was towing a trailer. If you get bogged it's because you didn't set yourself up for success (ie wrong air pressure, drove off the main track into a swampy section etc)
5. Does the Traction Control still work when the CDL is locked? yes

I guess I'll soon find out but it would be great to hear from the experienced defender drivers. I'm also going with some friends who have a toyboy 200 series and I don't want to get stuck as fellow LR drivers would understand haha pack light and carry at least 130 ltr for the crossing. a modestly weighted defender will burn about 100 ltr in the crossing following the French/QAA line. Add fuel if you wish to drop onto the Rig rd etc. Sometimes you need to wait until about 11pm/midnight for the clouds to clear and once they do, the milkyway smiles upon you in the most spectacular movie you will ever see. Enjoy. I'll be returning there in July.

Thank you
Bruce

[biggrin]

[MLD]

ps: Stefan just did the Madigan line and said it was well travelled so you will have a defined track to follow (no longer have to travel by compass and map).

[bln]

Many thanks MLD - some great information for me.

[bln]

I've not too long ago come from a Disco myself. If you can drive a Disco off-road, you can drive a Defender. The basics are all the same. The only difference is you need to think about what gear to be in ahead of each obstacle, eg for a whole climb up a hill rather than being able to change gears mid climb. You need to think about how much speed/momentum you will need for a given obstacle and select accordingly. This will come easily with practice. Off-road 2nd and 3rd low seem to be the most used for me, but that's a bit of a generalisation.

Use of low range will be similar to the Disco. I tend to drop in to low when speeds drop below about 40km/h - again a bit of a generalisation.

We've just had a whole thread on use of the CDL so I won't say too much. I tend to lock it when I hit the dirt if its a little slippery but it depends on the situation. Certainly it always gets locked once we are "off-road".

As for speeds, I suggest you take it a little easier than in the Disco, but you'll feel that. For something like the Oodnadatta track, probably around 80km/h will be right but it very much depends on current conditions. I find 80 a comfortable cruising speed on most good dirt roads, but again this is a generalisation. I tend to take it easy out there and enjoy the view.

A Defender doesn't handle corrugations like a Disco so keep the speed and tyre pressures down. The rear will bounce around a little more and tend to come unstuck and slide down the road camber - no big deal but again it doesn't handle like a Disco.

Can't comment on the Simpson or Big Red specifically as I haven't done them in the Defender yet. Can let you know in August.

Best advice I can give is just take it easy and get a feel for it. Travel at a pace you are comfortable with and don't bust a gut just to keep up with the Toyotas. The old adage of "as slow as possible, as fast as necessary" is very apt in a Defender.

If you love driving your Defender now, you'll love driving it out there. They just feel right.

Cheers,
Jon

Many thanks Jon - great advice

[weeds]

Hi all,
For the past 20 years I have driven automatics - mainly Discos. I currently have a D4 but I have always had an un-controllable desire and longing to own a Defender. We have been doing remote trips for quite a few years now in the discos but for many reasons we decided to purchase a Defender and make this our expedition vehicle. After only 3 months of ownership I love it. We are planning to do the Madigan Line in a couple of weeks and it has occurred to me that I have never driven the Puma 'offload' so would like to get your opinion on how to drive it: eg low range or high range, CDL locked or not, gears to use. Here are some scenarios:-

1. Oodnadatta Track - Mostly good dirt road with some corrugations - CDL on or off, what speed?
2. Into Mt Dare - rocky/stoney, corrugated - pretty bad track
3. Simpson Desert - sand and sand hills - CDL locked, Low or High range, what gears
4. Big Red - best set-up to get over the top.
5. Does the Traction Control still work when the CDL is locked?

I guess I'll soon find out but it would be great to hear from the experienced defender drivers. I'm also going with some friends who have a toyboy 200 series and I don't want to get stuck as fellow LR drivers would understand haha.

Thank you
Bruce

Noooooo not another CDL thread

I don’t have a puma but have driven your route in a tdi except for maddigan.

I would

1 - Have CDL engaged the whole time
2 - lower tyre pressures to suit
3 - I did E to W and was in high range all the way, mostly 2nd just cruising along. Although I did drop down to the Rig Rd. W to E should be easier
4 - there is no need to go over ‘big red’ as in the highest section......the actual track tacks you south a bit and you can cross at a lower spot. I did big red from the western side.....high range from memory, 4th at the bottom and maybe 2nd at the top...
5 - yes traction control will still work with CDL engaged......it can work against you in sand in some situations but I doubt it will on the Simpson.

Your puma will **** it in.....

[The Cone of Silence]

I have some relevant experience here in a 2008 110 which would have weighed in at around 3.3 to 3.5 tonnes during the Simpson trip. I did the same route as you but the area had experienced 102mm of rain a week prior, making the Oodnadatta track a four-wheel powersliding playground. SO much fun.

Hi all,
For the past 20 years I have driven automatics - mainly Discos. I currently have a D4 but I have always had an un-controllable desire and longing to own a Defender. We have been doing remote trips for quite a few years now in the discos but for many reasons we decided to purchase a Defender and make this our expedition vehicle. After only 3 months of ownership I love it. We are planning to do the Madigan Line in a couple of weeks and it has occurred to me that I have never driven the Puma 'offload' so would like to get your opinion on how to drive it: eg low range or high range, CDL locked or not, gears to use. Here are some scenarios:-

1. Oodnadatta Track - Mostly good dirt road with some corrugations - CDL on or off, what speed? Off...you're unlikely to spin a wheel. I stuck to around 60-80kph with the odd section allowing 100kph. Tyres 25psi.
2. Into Mt Dare - rocky/stoney, corrugated - pretty bad track. Off, as above. Corrugations will determine your speed. And that bloody gibber. And when you stop for lunch, watch out for the 40 trillion highly organised special forces flies.
3. Simpson Desert - sand and sand hills - CDL locked, Low or High range, what gears CDL on. 18psi max. High range. I got up all of them in H2 and came off the gas JUST at the top, then cruised down the other side in neutral. I used 75-80 litres of fuel getting from Oodnadatta - Dalhousie - Birdsville by doing this.
4. Big Red - best set-up to get over the top. Fang it mate, just send the beast and don't be shy of the loud pedal. I was easily doing 80kph at the bottom, changed down twice on the way up and it was a piece of cake. Many people watching too which added a nice bit of pressure.
5. Does the Traction Control still work when the CDL is locked? Affirmative.

I guess I'll soon find out but it would be great to hear from the experienced defender drivers. I'm also going with some friends who have a toyboy 200 series and I don't want to get stuck as fellow LR drivers would understand haha.

Thank you
Bruce

Good luck mate - enjoy the trip, it's truly beautiful out there.

[trout1105]

My advice is to simply get in the truck and drive it in different conditions/terrain.
You will work it out for yourself, Eventually [thumbsupbig]
That's the beauty of the defender, YOU decide how it is driven and Not the electronics or the gearbox.
Enjoy [bigrolf]

[Tote]

I've done the conversion as well, from a Disco 3 with rear diff lock to a Defender 130. My thoughts on your scenarios:
1. Oodnadatta Track - Mostly good dirt road with some corrugations - CDL on or off, what speed?
CDL off at whatever speed seems comfortable, we did it in the D3 at 80-100, don't think I'd drive the Defender much differently

2. Into Mt Dare - rocky/stoney, corrugated - pretty bad track
Did this in the D3 as well, just drive to the conditions at what seems a comfortable pace, trying to ignore what sounds like the roof separating from the body.

3. Simpson Desert - sand and sand hills - CDL locked, Low or High range, what gears
Compared to the D3 the Defender is sooo much better in the sand. CDL locked and stability control off, enjoy yourself

4. Big Red - best set-up to get over the top. Haven't done Big Red but see above

5. Does the Traction Control still work when the CDL is locked?
Yes

A couple of things that I have been caught on

Lock the centre diff, the Defer won't do it for you. I've been caught
On steep rocky climbs the Defender isn't as capable as the D3 was. (aftermarket diff locks required)


Regards,
Tote

[cripesamighty]

And if you are wondering where the anti-stall feature comes in handy in sand.....
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gttVJIyAdR8)

Have tried this one myself and it is a great party trick.


The other use of anti-stall and traction control is when you need to tow a 12 ton truck on gravel.... well at a Land Rover demo day at least.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jhuKLrjJLg)

Fun aside, I think everyone else has covered it well enough for you. You shouldn't really have any problems. Just get out and enjoy your new beastie!

[bln]

And if you are wondering where the anti-stall feature comes in handy in sand.....
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gttVJIyAdR8)

Have tried this one myself and it is a great party trick.


The other use of anti-stall and traction control is when you need to tow a 12 ton truck on gravel.... well at a Land Rover demo day at least.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jhuKLrjJLg)

Fun aside, I think everyone else has covered it well enough for you. You shouldn't really have any problems. Just get out and enjoy your new beastie!

Love it

[Zeros]

It’s simple.

Leave the Centre Difflock (CDL) locked, unless you need to drive on bitumen. It’s designed to be unlocked so you can drive on road without transmission wind up.

Select the correct gear in advance for the conditions (everyone learns this by experience). Allow the vehicle to drive you in and out, take it easy.

Don’t ever drive across a sand dune sideways.

The rev holder is useful IMO ( as above :-) but also it’s brilliant in all low range gears off-road ...and on road a brief pause in neutral and foot completely off clutch before accelerating = perfect gear changes.

Keep your maintenance up. Get good tyres. Carry extra water. Keep your loads as light as possible and pack to keep the centre of gravity low.

If you break down, make a cuppa, then decide what to do.

[bln]

It’s simple.

... The rev holder is useful IMO ( as above :-) but also it’s brilliant in all low range gears off-road ...and on road a brief pause in neutral and foot completely off clutch before accelerating = perfect gear changes.
If you break down, make a cuppa, then decide what to do.

Whats the 'rev holder' - I didn't know that I had one??.

Cheers

[DiscoMick]

The rev holder or anti-stall pushes the revs up to about 900 to prevent stalling, so the vehicle will idle along if it has traction.
You can test it on any road. Select first and lift off the go pedal.
TC works all the time.
There's a whole thread on when to use the CDL. It can be used anywhere except sealed surfaces where the traction could cause axle windup.
On those roads you'll mostly be in high range on varying unsealed surfaces, some very rough, so slow down and enjoy.

[D90 orkney]

That anti stall feature is so bloody good.

Fast forward to 22:32 to see where the anti stall along with front and rear
lockers works in a real hairy situation. Can’t say how fantastic the feature is enough

YouTube (https://youtu.be/uR5KPUM9nZY)

[Tombie]

Point 4: screaming at the base of Big Red will see the vehicle thumped into the base (there’s regularly a ridge just before it)..

Low tyre pressures and walk up... amateurs go the lead foot route.

[Tombie]

AntiStall isn’t new to Tdci by the way folks!

[87County]

AntiStall isn’t new to Tdci by the way folks!

Certainly NOT :) - the ol' Isuzu 4BD1 has it in spades

[Tombie]

My advice is to simply get in the truck and drive it in different conditions/terrain.
You will work it out for yourself, Eventually [thumbsupbig]
That's the beauty of the defender, YOU decide how it is driven and Not the electronics or the gearbox.
Enjoy [bigrolf]

Bull [emoji41]

[trout1105]

Bull [emoji41]

So you don't subscribe to the idea of gaining first hand experience to learn how any particular 4WD behaves.
OK so what is the other alternative?

[Tombie]

So you don't subscribe to the idea of gaining first hand experience to learn how any particular 4WD behaves.
OK so what is the other alternative?

No, Bull about totally controlling a Tdci Defender..

You may pick the gear it’s in and the direction the wheels point. The vehicle is still making calculations on where the power goes, how much etc...

Old cable throttles and mechanical only drivelines ended at TDi.


Learning the performance traits of each vehicle I absolutely endorse! [emoji41]. I’m lucky I’ve have both the Bread Box and the Fridge to play in!

[cripesamighty]

I hear you Tombie. My old SWMBO used to drive both of our Defenders (TD5 and Tdci) like the old 200Tdi and it used to give me the irrits. No idea about what the cars systems were doing and didn't want to know either. She simply didn't 'get' drive by wire or different throttle inputs to get the best out of each vehicle. Many an argument when driving the Puma in sand were to be had. I did however find that the self unbogging of a Puma Defender is a wonderful teaching aid....

[bln]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts - I was better prepared for the trip based on your comments.
We completed the Madigan in 5 days and it was a bit easier than I thought because the track is now well worn. I was with the false belief that the track was very faint and that the GPS would need to be relied on. Many of the steeper dunes were chewed out near the top which made a lot of 'rock n rollin'. The Defer was really good - I used low with the centre diff locked most of the time. I could travel in L3 for most of the journey with L2 being used for some of the steeper dunes. In L2 I could go slowly over the chewed out sections with enough power left to power over the top of the dune. The suspension on the Defer was excellent - a very comfortable ride, very compliant. The Kumho MT51's did a great job - no punctures - I let them down to 15psi all round. There were some rocky sections and I didn't get any sidewall damage at the low-pressure. The Colorado was shod with brand new Desert Duellers and two tyres were shredded (un-repairable) - one on the Old Ghan Track and the other on the Birdsville. The 200 series was shod with Coopers ST and was free from punctures.
For Big Red I let the tyres down to 12psi. I easily got up the 'easy track' but failed on three attempts to get up the harder section. I made it right up to the top only to bog down at the last metre - so close. I tried different gears as well as high range. I gave up but afterwards I was kicking myself for not trying again with a bigger run-up. To dent the ego further our friends in the 200 series made it look easy. Our other friends in a Colorado didn't make it up big red either and not as high as the Defer (phew). Anyway putting the ego aside it was a great trip. The scenery was superb and varied. Not much wild life was seen other than camels.
We headed home via the Birdsville Track. My only criticism of the Defer (Puma 2012) was the amount of dust that entered in through the doors and back door. Also the battery box and computer boxes under the seats were covered in dust.
My next Defer project is to add additional rubber seals around the doors and sikaflex any holes.
Cheers

[DiscoMick]

There is a hole in the battery box which can be closed to reduce the dust. Spraying door seals with lanolin can catch some dust too.