Twin tank fuel management

[Fubar]

I'm looking at fuel management with my new Shingleback sill tank in combination with my factory (99' 130) tank. The way I see it I have 3 options to manage the fuel delivery.



1. A electronic 6 way valve for on the fly switching. Being electrical it wont last forever, but should it play up, can be bridged out manually in the bush without too much stuffing around.

Pollak 6 Port Fuel Valve Motorised 42-159 Dual Fuel Tanks – Scintex Australia (https://www.scintex.com.au/products/pollak-fuel-valve-switch)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/06/7.jpg




2. A manual 6 way valve for on the fly switching & fuel flow lock. I'd mount the valve to the body so it is outside the cab with just the lever inside accessible to me from the drivers seat. Not much to go wrong with this and should last a bloody long time.

6 Port Bronze Fuel Valve| GROCO (https://www.groco.net/products/valves-seacocks/fuel-valves/fv-6-port-series)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/06/8.jpg




3. Or just use a reasonably fast transfer pump (Facet?) and have a single supply line from a dedicated feed tank to the engine, with the other just as a carrier. I had considered using gravity feed (factory to the sill tank via solenoid valve), but apparently this is frowned upon. Having tanks arranged this way will actually allow one tank to be completely drained as long (as the transfer pump can handle running dry) whereas any tank with a pick up will never have it's full capacity utilised.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/06/9.jpg





I can see an advantage in being able to say, leave one tank low to fill up with alpine blend upone arrival to the high country or being able to run off either tank if one is damaged, but really that is likely a rare event.

Both tanks will have fuel guages and run off a single Y filler.

Sort of leaning to the manual valve or the simpler transfer option at the moment.....thoughts gents?

Cheers,

Jason

[Rick]

I've gone with the Facet transfer method with my Shingleback tank. My factory tank has the extra spigot that I believe was a North America feature to go with a factory sill tank. I just ran the transfer into that. The facet takes about 27 minutes +/- to transfer but I've only managed to get about 62 litres into the Shinglback so far.

[djam1]

With a TD5 you would have to use the transfer method as the fuel pump resides in the main tank and the return flow will go to the main tank.
Cant see how you would use a Pollak valve in this application

[Fubar]

Ah my mistake gents....the 130 is being blessed with a 4BD1T.

[djam1]

Ah sorry I didnt know that in that case you could probably use a length of mulga and a rock
I find that the brass taps eventually leak and become smelly and messy

[87County]

The genuine Pollaks cost $200 delivered from Scintex, so it is cheap and simple to carry a spare and replace if fails. If it is simply an electrical failure it will continue to deliver fuel from whichever tank it was on when it failed.

IMHO the other simple practical alternative is to have a single facet style pump refilling the using tank from the auxiliary as required - you only require a single return with this setup.

There are cheap pollak clones available from the US where the good 'ol boys like them in their "trucks". The genuine is cheap enough and reliable enough to enable you to avoid them.

I carry a genuine Pollak as a spare.

[roverrescue]

On my old tdi motivated 130 I used a Pollack
If you mount the pollack to the tank bracket at rear
You have good access to the hose connections.
Not that I ever needed it in nearly 10 years but I just carried a few joiners and plugs - if the pollack carked link a few fuel lines block a few and voila mobile again.

Steve

[trout1105]

A simple transfer pump is all you need but you have to make sure that you turn it off when your main tank if full [thumbsupbig]

[Rick]

A simple transfer pump is all you need but you have to make sure that you turn it off when your main tank if full [thumbsupbig]


I bought a cheap (coupla bucks) timer relay off the auction site. A bit of trial and error and it was set for the time I needed. I have it set up so that when you flip the switch it starts pumping right away. When the time I've set is up the pump switches off and a small buzzer goes off to remind me to flip the switch off.

[gromit]

My Defender came with a LRA sill tank and a transfer pump.
The sill tank has a gauge and also a low level sensor. A three way rocker switch selects main tank gauge, sill tank gauge or transfer from sill to main. While transferring it shows the sill tank level and a green light illuminates to remind you it's pumping.
If the sill tank gets too low the pump stops (via the low level sensor) and a red light comes on so you don't burn out the pump.

What it doesn't do is stop pumping if the main tank is full.

There are a couple of relays involved and many years ago I did make a sketch of the wiring layout but doubt I could find it now.


Colin

[dromader driver]

illuminated as in annoying colour toggle switch on manual facet fuel transfer pump into the return line . works well. plumb the overflow line into the reserve tank if you are worried about overfilling during transfer. [smilebigeye]

[bee utey]

The multi tank installations I've fitted have the breathers hooked to the fast fill line, so that if you pump into the main tank and it's too full the excess just runs back via the breather line into an emptier tank. No timers, no float switches, no mess. Glance at the main fuel gauge occasionally, listen for the Facet pump clattering, it all works out. Each auxiliary tank gets its own pump. If you really do damage the main tank it's no biggie to carry enough hose to reconnect the plumbing accordingly.

[Fubar]

My Defender came with a LRA sill tank and a transfer pump.
The sill tank has a gauge and also a low level sensor. A three way rocker switch selects main tank gauge, sill tank gauge or transfer from sill to main. While transferring it shows the sill tank level and a green light illuminates to remind you it's pumping.
If the sill tank gets too low the pump stops (via the low level sensor) and a red light comes on so you don't burn out the pump.

What it doesn't do is stop pumping if the main tank is full.

There are a couple of relays involved and many years ago I did make a sketch of the wiring layout but doubt I could find it now.

That pretty much covers all bases and allows fuel management switching between blends...something I do each trip during winter.


I've gone with the Facet transfer method with my Shingleback tank. My factory tank has the extra spigot that I believe was a North America feature to go with a factory sill tank. I just ran the transfer into that. The facet takes about 27 minutes +/- to transfer but I've only managed to get about 62 litres into the Shinglback so far.
Is this a 110 tank or 130 tank? I have yet to fill my 130 sill tank.


I bought a cheap (coupla bucks) timer relay off the auction site. A bit of trial and error and it was set for the time I needed. I have it set up so that when you flip the switch it starts pumping right away. When the time I've set is up the pump switches off and a small buzzer goes off to remind me to flip the switch off.

Great idea.


I find that the brass taps eventually leak and become smelly and messy

Not something I have experience with or considered...good info thanks heaps.

[alien]

I chose to change the filler neck so it could be modified.
The facet pump feeds into the main tank, once full it can over flow back into the sill tank.
Transfer is around an hour with ours and tops up the main tank quicker than it uses fuel on the highway so can be done while traveling.

[trout1105]

I don't know exactly how it is done but on my 79 series ute I have 2x fuel gauges main/aux on the dash and all I have to do is push a button next to either gauge to choose which tank I want to use.

[Fubar]

I chose to change the filler neck so it could be modified.
The facet pump feeds into the main tank, once full it can over flow back into the sill tank.
Transfer is around an hour with ours and tops up the main tank quicker than it uses fuel on the highway so can be done while traveling.


Neat...I have a Perentie filler neck to add in that needs modifying for the same functionality.

[Rick]

"Is this a 110 tank or 130 tank? I have yet to fill my 130 sill tank."

110, It's supposed to hold around 70L. I need to find filling stations with the right camber on the pad next to the pump to coax the fuel in. It ain't no F1 pit stop...

[p38arover]

A simple transfer pump is all you need but you have to make sure that you turn it off when your main tank if full [thumbsupbig]

That's what I had in both my 110 and my RRC with sill tanks.

[djam1]

I run a transfer pump with a circular bypass so when the main tank is full the excess fuel go s back into the auxiliary tank

[Robmacca]

"Is this a 110 tank or 130 tank? I have yet to fill my 130 sill tank."

110, It's supposed to hold around 70L. I need to find filling stations with the right camber on the pad next to the pump to coax the fuel in. It ain't no F1 pit stop...


It will depend on where your filler is, but I can only put a MAX of 65ltrs in and that's with the car facing downhill. My Filler is just infront of the rear wheel but I'd reckon if u tee into the original filler, then u "may" add 3-4ltrs depending on the filler hose ID size....

[Fubar]

It will depend on where your filler is, but I can only put a MAX of 65ltrs in and that's with the car facing downhill. My Filler is just infront of the rear wheel but I'd reckon if u tee into the original filler, then u "may" add 3-4ltrs depending on the filler hose ID size....

Good info...I'll make a point of adding breathers front and rear on mine. I think it has a couple of blanks on the top.

[Bigbjorn]

It will depend on where your filler is, but I can only put a MAX of 65ltrs in and that's with the car facing downhill. My Filler is just infront of the rear wheel but I'd reckon if u tee into the original filler, then u "may" add 3-4ltrs depending on the filler hose ID size....

A la Smoky Yunick? Smoky was found to be using the 4" main frame tubes of his NASCAR as fuel carriers. The regulations specifically listed the dimensions of the fuel tank. Didn't say anything about frame tubes. Smoky hit the roof when taken to task over this. Waving the rule book at officials and asking them to show him where the rules said it couldn't be done. Someone noticed his car was going a good bit longer between pit stops than the competition so the stewards had him drop the fuel tank for measurement. All legal. Smoky put on a fine Smoky of bad temper, called everyone involved mfsob's and other terms of endearment, hopped in the Chevy and drove away. He forgot the fuel tank was still sitting on the pit counter. Oops. "Smoke, you better bring that back here for another look."

[donh54]

He was an amazing bloke! Always pushing the envelope as far as the rules were concerned.
What I would've given to be his understudy for a while!

[simmo]

My car has a 42 l sill tank as the aux tank, it has a land rover fuel level sender in the aux tank that works Ok though the bottom third of the tank goes down quicker than the top part due to the shape of the tank, it slopes up towards the sill for improved ground clearance.( as result the tank will drain down to less than 2 liters)

I ganged together two common 1/4" WOG three way cocks ( or valve), I think they cost about $15 ea at the time.

one cock changes the suctions, the other changes the fuel return to tank
The single lever to operate the two cocks is on the front of the drivers seat base pointing down is the main tank, 90 deg rotation to the right is the aux tank, and the tanks can be changed over on the run.
On the tdi, there is some free space under the drivers seat, the micro switch, valves and piping are mounted in the forward end, so there's still space there to stow stuff.

When the lever is moved to the aux tk position it hits a microswitch, that changes the gauge to the fuel sender in the aux tk.

The two tanks can operate independently of each other. Its simple, reliable, and not expensive to do.

cheers simmo

[Snagger]

I have three tanks in a 109, so not identical but broadly comparable to your issue. I'm a firm believer in "if it can go wrong, it will" and "keep it simple".

I have the standard rear tank and the under-seat fill front tanks (no external filler necks as I thought them ugly and I don't want to attract the interest of fuel thieves or Customs officials crossing borders). The front tanks are actually those from UK MoD Series vehicles, but LR also sold these to the civilian market as optional secondary tanks, and even fitted them to the supporting 110s in the last Camel Trophy event. I used the fuel taps from the same vehicles for the feed, with the the return lines having a second, smaller valve mounted in the same cradle as each feed valve and operated by a link to the feed tap's handle. So, the end effect is something similar, though slightly less robust than you "option 2". I actually have two sets of these taps, one to select front or rear, and another selecting between left and right to feed the "front" side of the primary tap. It's simple, cheap and allows me to isolate a tank should I have any reason (different fuel type like vegoil, a leak, weight balancing or whatever). It has proved totally reliable and very easy to use for the last decade. I see no benefit in transfer pumps with electrical or electronic controls at much higher cost and complexity - the wiring, switching and valve actuators will all become vulnerabilities and maintenance issues.

[Michael2]

In my 110 I've got 3 tanks (2 sill and 1 LR rear).

I've gone for option 3.

I've had option 1 in a RRC (main tank, sub tank and LPG) and it worked fine.
Ive had option 2 in a Series - the brass stuff eventually leaks and binds.

I selected option 3 because it's simple to fit, simple to replace, and easy to by-pass. I have a 300tdi, so in the event that both facet pumps fail I can just join the pick-up to the aux tank as a bush fix. I know this isn't an option in later models with the pump in the tank. However in later models, should your main tank pump fail, you can use the facet as a pick up pump and get home with a minimum of bush mechanics.

[Fubar]

Thanks for all the points of view and experiences.

I ended up going for Option 1 as I do end up running alpine blend off and on through winter. Being able to select the tank that is 100% alpine will make things easier.

I got feedback from this forum and from the fitters at work that brass valves would eventually leak diesel so the Pollack unit was the only sensible choice for me.

I might look at a fuel transfer capability after I have everything installed and running.

Many thanks for the input,

Jason