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bob10
6th July 2018, 06:27 AM
Oh what a feeling, no power.

Dust problem is causing Toyotas to lose power without warning | The New Daily (https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/auto/2018/07/05/toyota-hilux-engine-problem/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%2020180706)

trout1105
6th July 2018, 06:39 AM
See what happens when car makers stuff about with a perfectly good design just to make them more high tech[bigwhistle]
I have owned several Hilux 4WD's ranging from the original model to a 2004 model and these were pretty much Unbreakable and they certainly didnt have an easy life either

DAMINK
6th July 2018, 07:09 AM
See what happens when car makers stuff about with a perfectly good design just to make them more high tech[bigwhistle]
I have owned several Hilux 4WD's ranging from the original model to a 2004 model and these were pretty much Unbreakable and they certainly didnt have an easy life either

Agree a few mates have them. Locked and loaded. They are pretty impressive vehicles. Pretty much unbreakable i agree.

Homestar
6th July 2018, 09:15 AM
So, don't drive your Hilux through dusty areas and don't drive your Ranger through tall dry grass - got it, don't take them where they were supposed to be designed to go...

loanrangie
6th July 2018, 11:23 AM
Does a hilux have any power to lose ?

Homestar
6th July 2018, 01:31 PM
Does a hilux have any power to lose ?

The 2.8 in the current models is a very good engine IMO, and well matched to the 6 speed auto behind it - done over 100,000KM in 2 years in mine now with heaps of towing involved - easily handles 2 tonne trailers with no fuss, I do tow a 3000Kg genset behind quite a bit too and it sure notices that, but I don't travel faster than 80 with that on (company policy) and it just makes sense even though it tows fine. I doubt there are too many vehicles in thisnsize range that wouldn't feel 3 tonne hanging off the back to be honest.

Without a load it's actually quite nippy and maybe it easily does 150 but I can't comfim that personally... 😉😇

We all like to bag out Toyotas (I sure do) but I may well buy this vehicle when it comes out of lease if it continues as it has done (still 2 years to go so a big if). I like my Hilux. 😊

tact
6th July 2018, 01:34 PM
Agree a few mates have them. Locked and loaded. They are pretty impressive vehicles. Pretty much unbreakable i agree.

I had a 2001 model dual cab hilux that I bought new in Malaysia (before I bought my current dual cab defender new in 2013). Definitely was NOT unbreakable.
- in the first year I took it easy on it under warranty. No mods, and "offroad" would have been defined as shopping centre carparks and mild dirt tracks on building construction sites.
- "Articulation" it was subjected to would have been defined as crawling one wheel at a time over kerbing to get "offroad" as that term is described above

In the first 3 months of its life (whilst taking it easy as defined above) the rear leaf spring packs got a bit twisted. (Must have been the "articulation" the vehicle had been subjected to as above.)
- mention it to Toyota at service time, wanted it fixed under warranty.
- "has the vehicle been used offroad?", asks they
- "yes", says I
- "ok... not covered under warranty", says they.
- 6 mths of argument later they offered to pay half the cost of parts and replacement
- "no thank you", says I. I decide the warranty is worthless, so no harm in wholesale upgrades. Replaced all suspension, had the fuel pump tweaked, and fitted all manner of bars and winch etc.

Wanted a reliable vehicle because of my penchant for going deep into Malaysian rainforests for fun weekend and week long trips.

After breaking 4 CV joints on successive trips and (at the time) no HD items to be had for love nor money - decided to offload the vehicle.

Notes:
- I should have researched better. Turns out all hilux drivers at the time knew of weak CVs and wheelbearings that can't handle even 32" tyres for long.
- I attribute the Hilux CV and wheelbearing fails to them being plain and simply weak.
- My Hilux had the rather horsepower deficient 2.8l NA diesel engine. So even exhuberant throttle application could only result in an asthmatic wheeze of power.
- And none of the breakages were due to the way the vehicle was driven at the time. (e.g. no wild wheelspin breaking things when the wheel touches down - all knew that breaks axles, so can't do that)
- After the first two CV breakages I resorted to extended steering stops, enduring a Defender-esq turning circle equating to two postcodes - in a useless attempt to avoid the next two CV breakages.

Not that its relevant to hiluxes being unbreakable but:
- it has to be noted that much later, in 2013, I bought a new Defender. (because I had been advised Hilux CVs and wheelbearings were no better than before)
- in the 3.5 yrs before I brought said Defender with me to Oz I took it in and out of the same Malaysian rainforests that I had taken the hilux
- I can attest to having had NO breakdowns in or out of the Malaysian rainforests or urban jungles
- [edit] nor any breakdowns in the 1.5yrs the vehicle has been in Oz.

bob10
6th July 2018, 05:00 PM
So, what chance the new defender is a dud?

Homestar
6th July 2018, 05:05 PM
So, what chance the new defender is a dud?

If you're looking for a rugged, utilitarian go anywhere no fuss vehicle, it will be 100% dud from your eyes. If you're after a luxo barge to drive around town in that looks like every other new Land Rover but with a Defender badge on it, then it will probably be fine.

tact
6th July 2018, 06:04 PM
So, what chance the new defender is a dud?
Plenty of other threads on here for that discussion

DAMINK
6th July 2018, 06:06 PM
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk&ab_channel=TopGear)

bob10
6th July 2018, 06:28 PM
Plenty of other threads on here for that discussion

Sure. But I asked the question here. EDIT You know the around the campfire chat thread.

bob10
6th July 2018, 06:36 PM
If you're looking for a rugged, utilitarian go anywhere no fuss vehicle, it will be 100% dud from your eyes. If you're after a luxo barge to drive around town in that looks like every other new Land Rover but with a Defender badge on it, then it will probably be fine.

We will see, I think Land rover have sold out to the yuppies of the 4X4 world. The defender will be no different.

scarry
6th July 2018, 06:50 PM
We will see, I think Land rover have sold out to the yuppies of the 4X4 world. The defender will be no different.

Correct,thats why i will have to move on to another brand.

They don't produce a vehicle for my needs anymore,and as said,i can't see the new Defender being much different from their current crop of offerings.

Although we could be surprised.

bob10
6th July 2018, 08:12 PM
Correct,thats why i will have to move on to another brand.

They don't produce a vehicle for my needs anymore,and as said,i can't see the new Defender being much different from their current crop of offerings.

Although we could be surprised.

I like the Izuzu 3 litre, It doesn't like my wallet.

Pedro_The_Swift
6th July 2018, 08:42 PM
Oh what a feeling, no power.

Dust problem is causing Toyotas to lose power without warning | The New Daily (https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/auto/2018/07/05/toyota-hilux-engine-problem/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%2020180706)


Hey Bob,, why arent you posting these in your Forum??

bob10
6th July 2018, 08:58 PM
Hey Bob,, why arent you posting these in your Forum??

Because no one is game enough to reply in my forum, by design , or fear, I am not sure.

trout1105
7th July 2018, 02:24 AM
I had a 2001 model dual cab hilux that I bought new in Malaysia (before I bought my current dual cab defender new in 2013). Definitely was NOT unbreakable.
- in the first year I took it easy on it under warranty. No mods, and "offroad" would have been defined as shopping centre carparks and mild dirt tracks on building construction sites.
- "Articulation" it was subjected to would have been defined as crawling one wheel at a time over kerbing to get "offroad" as that term is described above

In the first 3 months of its life (whilst taking it easy as defined above) the rear leaf spring packs got a bit twisted. (Must have been the "articulation" the vehicle had been subjected to as above.)
- mention it to Toyota at service time, wanted it fixed under warranty.
- "has the vehicle been used offroad?", asks they
- "yes", says I
- "ok... not covered under warranty", says they.
- 6 mths of argument later they offered to pay half the cost of parts and replacement
- "no thank you", says I. I decide the warranty is worthless, so no harm in wholesale upgrades. Replaced all suspension, had the fuel pump tweaked, and fitted all manner of bars and winch etc.

Wanted a reliable vehicle because of my penchant for going deep into Malaysian rainforests for fun weekend and week long trips.

After breaking 4 CV joints on successive trips and (at the time) no HD items to be had for love nor money - decided to offload the vehicle.

Notes:
- I should have researched better. Turns out all hilux drivers at the time knew of weak CVs and wheelbearings that can't handle even 32" tyres for long.
- I attribute the Hilux CV and wheelbearing fails to them being plain and simply weak.
- My Hilux had the rather horsepower deficient 2.8l NA diesel engine. So even exhuberant throttle application could only result in an asthmatic wheeze of power.
- And none of the breakages were due to the way the vehicle was driven at the time. (e.g. no wild wheelspin breaking things when the wheel touches down - all knew that breaks axles, so can't do that)
- After the first two CV breakages I resorted to extended steering stops, enduring a Defender-esq turning circle equating to two postcodes - in a useless attempt to avoid the next two CV breakages.

Not that its relevant to hiluxes being unbreakable but:
- it has to be noted that much later, in 2013, I bought a new Defender. (because I had been advised Hilux CVs and wheelbearings were no better than before)
- in the 3.5 yrs before I brought said Defender with me to Oz I took it in and out of the same Malaysian rainforests that I had taken the hilux
- I can attest to having had NO breakdowns in or out of the Malaysian rainforests or urban jungles
- [edit] nor any breakdowns in the 1.5yrs the vehicle has been in Oz.

We have recently traded a 2006 Hilux twin cab on a 79 series V8 ute and in the 10 years that we owned it I had to replace 2x batteries several sets of tyres and the alternator.
We did over 250K and that includes several trips to the Kimberly thousands of K's of beach work and at least half of its life on dirt roads
In comparison I bought my 2004 D2a 3.5 years ago and have spent in excess of $15,000 in repairs in 60K of use.
Don't get me wrong i Love my Disco But in comparison to the Hilux for reliability it Sucks.

jonesfam
7th July 2018, 10:21 AM
The way I look at the world:
I don't buy Land Rovers for reliability,
I buy them because I like them.

I don't want a fridge.

martnH
7th July 2018, 10:43 AM
Haha

Hahaha I laugh so hard....

Brother, you too honest
The way I look at the world:
I don't buy Land Rovers for reliability,
I buy them because I like them.

I don't want a fridge.

trout1105
7th July 2018, 10:44 AM
The way I look at the world:
I don't buy Land Rovers for reliability,
I buy them because I like them.

I don't want a fridge.

I agree, I put landrovers into tbe same category as wooden boats.
Beautiful to look at and use but maintenance heavey .

martnH
7th July 2018, 10:46 AM
I laughed at the first part.

All cars are fridges...There are common ordinary fridges that most will buy, and there are the odd ball fridge only euthusist love....

Cheers

RANDLOVER
7th July 2018, 11:00 AM
I think Land-rover's supposed reliability issues, especially from an electronics stand point, will pale into insignificance when the opposition manufacturers try to follow suit. For instance a contractor's Mazda BT-50 had to to go to the dealer on a tilt tray after it ran out of diesel for a "computer reset".

scarry
7th July 2018, 11:10 AM
We have recently traded a 2006 Hilux twin cab on a 79 series V8 ute and in the 10 years that we owned it I had to replace 2x batteries several sets of tyres and the alternator.
We did over 250K and that includes several trips to the Kimberly thousands of K's of beach work and at least half of its life on dirt roads
In comparison I bought my 2004 D2a 3.5 years ago and have spent in excess of $15,000 in repairs in 60K of use.
Don't get me wrong i Love my Disco But in comparison to the Hilux for reliability it Sucks.

Yes,same here,as some on here know i run a fleet of 4 Tojo work vans,all around town,almost on GVM all day.
Combined K's of just over 1Mill,over the last 10yrs,have had one diff bearings fail.
Batteries and tyres,nothing else apart from routine servicing.
Never even touched the brakes on any of them.

As for my LR's,there is just no comparison,but then again,the LR is in a totally different class.

I agree,LR's are generally extremely expensive to maintain,particularly the later models,say from D2 onwards.

In fact even the Puma has recently had issues,and it has around 100 000 km on the clock,so not high mileage
Adapter shaft,clutch slave cylinder,brakes,etc.
And that slave cylinder,fitted INSIDE the bell housing,what a dumb stupid design,if there ever was one.
But can't just blame LR for the design,probably came from Ford.
Same as the adapter shaft,another stupid dumb design.

AK83
7th July 2018, 11:10 AM
We have recently traded a 2006 Hilux twin cab on a 79 series V8 ute and in the 10 years that we owned it I had to replace 2x batteries several sets of tyres and the alternator.
We did over 250K and that includes several trips to the Kimberly thousands of K's of beach work and at least half of its life on dirt roads
In comparison I bought my 2004 D2a 3.5 years ago and have spent in excess of $15,000 in repairs in 60K of use.
Don't get me wrong i Love my Disco But in comparison to the Hilux for reliability it Sucks.

I think a bit of perspective is in order here tho.
On the face of it, the implication is that the Hilux is more reliable(which it seemingly may be).
But you must have bought the Hilux new, for you to have had it for 10 years, and it being a '06 model.

But the Disco was 10 years old if you bought it 3.5yrs ago, and most likely the 15K may not have been a necessity, but a preference for you to have spent on the D2a.
eg. how much did the engine cost to rebuild .. $4K(more?) .. could have got away with spending less .. etc, etc.

You can't really compare the reliability of a 10 year old car(the D2a) to that of a new one(the Hilux).
(IMO) Even the cost of the alternator on the Hilux was an excessive expense! Shouldn't have been needed in a 10yr period on a newly bought vehicle.

Strangely, in my area, the two most common cars I notice on the 'side of the road'(ie. what appear to be broken down on freeways) are Commodores and late model Hiluxes.

trout1105
7th July 2018, 11:29 AM
I bought the Hilux second hand with about 40K on it in 2006 and traded it 3 months ago.
The Hilux and the D2a had pretty much the same amount of milage on them when i traded the Hilux So my comparison on the two trucks is pretty accurate given that they had done the same amount of work.
We all try to kid ourselves that the LR is tje strongest and most reliable truck out there But in reality that simply isn't the case, We only own them because they are different to all the other trucks on the road and we enjoy driving them.
As far as reliability and dealer backup/service goes JLR is way fown the list in that aspect and yet we insist on owning tjem, We must be Nuts[biggrin]pped

ramblingboy42
7th July 2018, 11:48 AM
I laughed at the first part.

All cars are fridges...There are common ordinary fridges that most will buy, and there are the odd ball fridge only euthusist love....

Cheers

yeah....but a Defender looks like a fridge lying on it's side....

ramblingboy42
7th July 2018, 11:54 AM
We have recently traded a 2006 Hilux twin cab on a 79 series V8 ute and in the 10 years that we owned it I had to replace 2x batteries several sets of tyres and the alternator.
We did over 250K and that includes several trips to the Kimberly thousands of K's of beach work and at least half of its life on dirt roads
In comparison I bought my 2004 D2a 3.5 years ago and have spent in excess of $15,000 in repairs in 60K of use.
Don't get me wrong i Love my Disco But in comparison to the Hilux for reliability it Sucks.

you are doing well Trout, even though my D2 never let me down, I spent the best part of $70,000 over 8yrs of ownership, even though I really enjoyed driving it and just loved its capabilities, it was going to cost me around $12,000 more to bring it back to pristine condition when I sold it, so I sold it cheap.

rick130
7th July 2018, 12:19 PM
And that slave cylinder,fitted INSIDE the bell housing,what a dumb stupid design,if there ever was one.
But can't just blame LR for the design,probably came from Ford.

Is it a concentric style slave, Paul?
If so, they are good as they do away with the fork, FWD's and all the race cars I used to work on have been using them forever, just a PITA if you need to replace the O rings as you need to split the bell housing.
Can you believe my old Deefer clutch slave had never been changed!!
The MC was a different kettle of fish....


Same as the adapter shaft,another stupid dumb design.

Yep, and that goes for the t/case diff downgrade too.

rick130
7th July 2018, 12:22 PM
yeah....but a Defender looks like a fridge lying on it's side....[emoji23]

I do miss mine.....

V8Ian
7th July 2018, 12:25 PM
The way I look at the world:
I don't buy Land Rovers for reliability,
I buy them because I like them.

I don't want a fridge.
Life would be pretty tough, up there, without a fridge, even in winter. [wink11]

scarry
7th July 2018, 04:17 PM
Is it a concentric style slave, Paul?
If so, they are good as they do away with the fork, FWD's and all the race cars I used to work on have been using them forever, just a PITA if you need to replace the O rings as you need to split the bell housing.
Can you believe my old Deefer clutch slave had never been changed!!
The MC was a different kettle of fish....


Yep, and that goes for the t/case diff downgrade too.

Here it is Rick.

Yep,out with the GB,TC,etc[bigsad]

And while your there,may as well replace the clutch......

http://i.stack.imgur.com/lnQMR.png

One of my brothers has done his D1 twice,over 360 000K's.
Two bolts and the fluid line,it falls off.

Not the Puma....[bigsad]

Saitch
7th July 2018, 05:57 PM
Here it is Rick.

Yep,out with the GB,TC,etc[bigsad]

And while your there,may as well replace the clutch......

http://i.stack.imgur.com/lnQMR.png

One of my brothers has done his D1 twice,over 360 000K's.
Two bolts and the fluid line,it falls off.

Not the Puma....[bigsad]

Ooooh, I'm just over 400,000 so I'd better check mine, thanks. :spudnikwaving:

jonesfam
7th July 2018, 08:36 PM
Life would be pretty tough, up there, without a fridge, even in winter. [wink11]

I run a Roadhouse, I have a Cool Room.[biggrin]

Anyway, what's wrong with our Winter, only got to 31 today, SWMBO had a Cardie on.

Jonesfam

edddo
7th July 2018, 08:56 PM
you are doing well Trout, even though my D2 never let me down, I spent the best part of $70,000 over 8yrs of ownership, even though I really enjoyed driving it and just loved its capabilities, it was going to cost me around $12,000 more to bring it back to pristine condition when I sold it, so I sold it cheap.

70k! Is that required repairs and maintenance or tricking it up for fun?

trout1105
8th July 2018, 12:02 AM
70k! Is that required repairs and maintenance or tricking it up for fun?

I imagine that 70k includes the initial purchase price and it doesn't take too many dead LR componants/workshop costs to start adding up to serious money.

incisor
8th July 2018, 05:10 AM
I think Land-rover's supposed reliability issues, especially from an electronics stand point, will pale into insignificance when the opposition manufacturers try to follow suit. For instance a contractor's Mazda BT-50 had to to go to the dealer on a tilt tray after it ran out of diesel for a "computer reset".

There is a constant stream of them on traytops landing at the local service center in caboolture

I saw 3 in the space of 2 hours the other week when i was working near there and I invariably see one when I stopped at the lights at the Beachmere turnoff

ramblingboy42
8th July 2018, 02:36 PM
70k! Is that required repairs and maintenance or tricking it up for fun?

I bought it "tricked up", in 350,000km every suspension bush, 3 front driveshafts, 2 fuel pressure regulators, 2 fuel pumps, 3 harmonic balancers, front engine seal, full brake rebuild, both ACE actuators, new dampers all round,o/h power steering, rear main engine seal, gearbox out put seal, transfer case seal,cooling system rebuild, plus professional installations of auxiliary instruments and cb, 6 sets of tyres, cylinder head, replace abs sensors, repair electric window winder mechanisms/rear door lock, plus servicing costs/rego/insurance.
It all adds up and when I sold it I had to choose whether to renew all the worn bits again or get out while I was young.
Funny thing , the replacement vehicle has cost nothing in 3 yrs except a set of AT tyres because they sell them with **** tyres.
I know if I'd spent the $10-12grand on the D2 it would have still cost me a lot more in the ensuing 3 yrs. Nature of the beast.....but the Ranger is boring......but I get 1000km per 84litre tank full etc etc. Sometimes the economics make sense.....and....this irks defender owners.... it's almost a Defender 130 in every way except its shape.

bob10
8th July 2018, 06:31 PM
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see the new defender built for the average joe with an average budget. I realise Land rover have to build to the EU regulations, and if they want to sell in the USA, where the money is [ besides China] diesel engines would have to be regulated almost to their death. Having said that, we don't know what the new defender will be. But, hey, if Mahindra can do it, why not Land Rover?

bob10
13th July 2018, 11:03 AM
More on the hi-lux 2.8 engine problem. [ unsealed 4x4]

http://unsealed4x4.com.au/heres-filtration-expert-thinks-toyotas-dust-problem/

p38arover
21st July 2018, 01:27 PM
I see Ben Mullins (Isuzurover on here) is the expert they have asked for comment. Some will recall Ben is a filtration expert who organised the Provent trial for 50 of us on AULRO.

https://mr4x4.com.au/1gd-ftv-dustgate-asked-expert/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=What+s+the+deal+with+Toyota+s+dust+iss ue%3F+We+ask+an+expert&utm_campaign=PC+Newsletter+%23218

rick130
21st July 2018, 02:01 PM
I see Ben Mullins (Isuzurover on here) is the expert they have asked for comment. Some will recall Ben is a filtration expert who organised the Provent trial for 50 of us on AULRO.

https://mr4x4.com.au/1gd-ftv-dustgate-asked-expert/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=What+s+the+deal+with+Toyota+s+dust+iss ue%3F+We+ask+an+expert&utm_campaign=PC+Newsletter+%23218


Ben knows his stuff, I miss his regular posts here.

BTW, I can't believe Toyota have published a statement saying =<5micron particles don't affect engine life !
Incredible spin.

p38arover
21st July 2018, 02:04 PM
Yep, I miss Ben's posts, too.

Yesterday, on the M4, a late model HilLux went barrelling past, exhaling much oil smoke. Every time he hit the accelerator, an even bigger plume of smoke came out. Even my wife commented on it.

Regrettably, I didn't think to capture the smoke on the dashcam.

trout1105
21st July 2018, 03:16 PM
Yep, I miss Ben's posts, too.

Yesterday, on the M4, a late model HilLux went barrelling past, exhaling much oil smoke. Every time he hit the accelerator, an even bigger plume of smoke came out. Even my wife commented on it.

Regrettably, I didn't think to capture the smoke on the dashcam.

Old Mate in the hilux has probably never changed his air filter like many others using different brands of 4WD's, including landrover owners and that will Always produce a nice smoke trail[bigwhistle]

djam1
21st July 2018, 06:27 PM
Ben knows his stuff, I miss his regular posts here.

BTW, I can't believe Toyota have published a statement saying =<5micron particles don't affect engine life !
Incredible spin.

They only have to last 100000 donít they?

DazzaTD5
22nd July 2018, 12:02 AM
Asian brands here!! ... pfft fancy infecting this thread with the dreaded "D" word...

My work vehicle up north was the last model 3.0lt Hilux D4D and yes it used to suffer the choking the air filter with so much dust it would get to the MAF and then kill performance. That was a regular thing when someone else had my Hilux. Fitting of a snorkel improved this a lot. It would tow a 2 ton lighting plant (plus a ton of tools in the back) and easily pull well in excess of the speed limit. It was a bloody good tough truck.

So yes the standard air intake pulls from the inner guard, but I say its more of a driver fault not keeping air filter clean, traveling too close behind another vehicle in a convoy.

DazzaTD5
22nd July 2018, 12:12 AM
Ohhhh I now see the latest model has gone to a panel style air filter. Clearly the old round style was far too good of an idea!

A lot of crap machinery I worked on up north, I used to spray silicone spray around the air filter seal to assist in better sealing.

P.S as for calling it "dustgate" ... what a bunch of total *******.

rick130
22nd July 2018, 09:43 AM
Ohhhh I now see the latest model has gone to a panel style air filter. Clearly the old round style was far too good of an idea!

A lot of crap machinery I worked on up north, I used to spray silicone spray around the air filter seal to assist in better sealing.

P.S as for calling it "dustgate" ... what a bunch of total *******.

Yep, I always liked that the Hilux and Cruiser had those nice, big round filters, one big advantage over a TD5.

Economics overtake serviceability again....

Homestar
23rd July 2018, 05:49 AM
They only have to last 100000 donít they?

Don't say that - mine has to last 200,000! It's over half way there and no dramas, but I don't take it off the bitumen - just like 95% of other Hilux owners I think, so not an issue. But I agree with the filter bit on them - hopelessly small compared to the last model.

SeanC
26th July 2018, 04:24 PM
I found this interesting.

Itís in response to the new Toyota engine letting dust past the air filter, collecting on the MAF sensor and sending the vehicle into limp mode.https://mr4x4.com.au/toyota-1gd-ftv-bites-dust/ Toyotas go into limp mode too??? And I thought it was only Discos. Who knew[bigwhistle]

Toyotaís response was that as the particles were only 5 micron they would have no detrimental effect on the engine and just clean or replace the filter more often.

Ben Mullins from Curtin University, who is an Associate Professor with an interest in testing and researching automotive filtration systems Ė everything from oil, fuel, and specifically useful for us, air.

ďI am surprised by the comments from Toyota. Firstly, 5 microns is regarded as a ďcoarseĒ particle in the air pollution world. It has been shown that fine particles (e.g diesel soot) can cause engine wear. Soot particles are <300 nm (0.3 microns) in size Ė albeit at high quantities in the oil.Ē

ďAnother common misconception is that changing your air filter more frequently is better for your engine. Air filters are not sieves, so capture the least amount of particles when new, and get better when they load with dust. So if the filter is the problem, changing it more often will let more dust through! Heavy vehicle manufacturers and filter manufacturers recommend changing filter based on pressure drop as this ensures both the longest filter lifespan and the least dust in your engine.Ē

Seeing Iím about taking on the servicing maybe not as good on idea to change the air filter at each service as I had thought.

weeds
26th July 2018, 04:54 PM
Coming from a fixed plant background, baghouses/dust collectors which have up to 900 filters in them......

We change filters based on dP....we donít start pulsing (cleaning) until the bags get dusted and than we stop pausing if the bags become too clean.

Iíve never cleaned my car filters when touring with compressed air....see plenty of people blowing them out with their compressor which can damage the filter and dust your motor......crazy approach.

I have on at times pulled the filter out and tapped on the bullbar....than re-fitted.

ATH
26th July 2018, 05:58 PM
I take a spare filter with me on trips and bang out the excess dust from the old one. When I get home I blow it out.
But when I worked in mines we sometimes changed haul truck filters twice a day in very dusty areas. The dusty filter was returned to Perth for "washing"..... what that involved I'm not sure.
As for the use of compressed air to blow them out, what's the problems if they're blown from the engine side outwards?
I caught the mobile mechanic I had servicing my Prado (I know and I'm sorry.:) But it really was good vehicle. ) blowing the filter with his compressor from all directions...inside out and outside in and across it.
I really got stuck into him but he was totally confused as to why I was more than a bit peeved..... I also caught the same bloke on my security cameras putting 5 different types of oil in it's engine!
I fired him of course and made him change the oil and filter and threatened to put it on YouTube if he tried any mechanic dirty tricks. He didn't, I watched him.
Yes a moderately dirty filter is better at catching fine dust but not a really blocked one. I've seen the results of a completely blocked filter on a blokes BMW motor bike..... not pretty as it sucked air from everywhere and dusted the motor. The owner had no idea on servicing etc.
AlanH.

DAMINK
26th July 2018, 06:02 PM
Im confused here.

The cleaner the air the better that simple. You bring dust or any other particle into your engine its to that engines detriment.

If engines are tuned to have a certain amount of restriction (blocking) from the filter then thats CRAZY.

Air flow should be as free as possible and as clean as possible.

I really view things that simply.

SeanC
26th July 2018, 07:15 PM
Im confused here.

The cleaner the air the better that simple. You bring dust or any other particle into your engine its to that engines detriment.

If engines are tuned to have a certain amount of restriction (blocking) from the filter then thats CRAZY.

Air flow should be as free as possible and as clean as possible.

I really view things that simply.

I know it is counter-intuitive but apparently a brand new filter actually lets more dust into the engine than a partially clogged one.

But then without the correct equipment how do tell when it is good clogged and bad clogged?

p38arover
26th July 2018, 07:20 PM
If I recall correctly, Ben has stated that on here before (he's an AULRO forum member).

GP1200
26th July 2018, 07:24 PM
Air filters are designed to work best when they are a little dirty, then itís the balance of too little or too much! Hence why on big gear you have all sorts of simple to sophisticated ways of measuring.

cleaning a air filter by any means is fraught with danger, as tapping or blowing can damage the filter paper,the seal or dislodge dirt that you may not see and then enter where itís not spose to go.

washing filters is really starting to fall by the wayside, while itís still going on, all of the above reasons can apply, you wouldnít wash your oil, so why bother washing your air filter, they are both not that expensive in the big picture.

I would change them as required and carry a spare.

jack

rick130
26th July 2018, 07:25 PM
Im confused here.

The cleaner the air the better that simple. You bring dust or any other particle into your engine its to that engines detriment.

If engines are tuned to have a certain amount of restriction (blocking) from the filter then thats CRAZY.

Air flow should be as free as possible and as clean as possible.

I really view things that simply.As an air filter loads it's efficiency increases, ie. the more it loads the more and smaller particles it traps.
It then becomes a trade-off between pressure drop and efficiency.

BTW, the Dr Mullins quoted in the above article is our own isuzurover.

I'll dig out the laptop and link to the relevant threads where Ben/isuzurover tests various air filters

Bigbjorn
26th July 2018, 07:44 PM
If you fit a Donaldson air filter according to their size recommendations then it will pass sufficient air for that engine until it is 75% clogged. Read their literature. Change or clean according to the tell tale or vacuum gauge.

Tombie
26th July 2018, 07:45 PM
Im confused here.

The cleaner the air the better that simple. You bring dust or any other particle into your engine its to that engines detriment.

If engines are tuned to have a certain amount of restriction (blocking) from the filter then thats CRAZY.

Air flow should be as free as possible and as clean as possible.

I really view things that simply.

Youíre viewing them wrong then [emoji41]

Airflow should be tuned just as Exhaust should.

Filtration will also be specced to meet the needs.

Iíve seen plenty of boy racers throw a car on a dyno, toss in a K&N or similar and drop power...

The filter builds up dirt. Not the engine air. And these particles help catch the next particles improving filtration.

rick130
26th July 2018, 08:41 PM
Air filter tests Air Filter Tests (Finally) (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/50650-air-filter-tests-finally.html)

Lots of very good information here from an expert, and I don't make that assertion lightly.
Ben has worked with and done research for the biggest players in the industry.

donh54
26th July 2018, 08:45 PM
Isn't the problem with the Toyotas that the air is bypassing the filter? Doesn't matter a tosh whether the filter works better clean or dirty, if the air isn't going through the filter in the first place!

SeanC
26th July 2018, 08:59 PM
Isn't the problem with the Toyotas that the air is bypassing the filter? Doesn't matter a tosh whether the filter works better clean or dirty, if the air isn't going through the filter in the first place!

From the same article by Ben Mullins ďThe issue here is probably the filter sealing rather than the filter itself, so disturbing the filter more frequently would likely make things worse. Proper tests would need to be done to see if the problem is the filter or the sealing, however flat panel filters can be difficult to seal, which is why heavy-duty engines generally donít use them except for cabin air.Ē

rick130
26th July 2018, 09:04 PM
Isn't the problem with the Toyotas that the air is bypassing the filter? Doesn't matter a tosh whether the filter works better clean or dirty, if the air isn't going through the filter in the first place!


Yep, as a lot of us with TD5's know about.
Most aftermarket TD5 filters seal poorly letting too much crud past.

ATH
29th July 2018, 08:21 AM
"When I get home I blow it out." Actually I do nothing of the sort (must have had a fit of age madness) ...... when I get home I use the vac. cleaner to suck it out the way it went in and the workshop (Aztech) renew it the 20K service intervals which they do while it's under warranty.
I clean it at the in between 10K service which I do myself.
Good filtration is like good oil and is cheap insurance as far as I'm concerned.
AlanH.

PS. On the Puma once, the stealers mechanics refitted the filter cover badly and it got drenched in a down pour when water poured off the wing into it. Luckily we hadn't been any where dusty after they'd "serviced" it.....

rick130
29th July 2018, 08:39 AM
FWIW the air filter is far more important than the oil filter.

Anyone that's been anywhere near ag or heavy equipment had seen or heard tales of engines that have been dusted.
It only takes an hour or so in a dusty environment with an air leak to destroy the bores, rings and pistons, let alone all the other rotating and spinning bits.

ATH
29th July 2018, 06:17 PM
I agree there Rick. That is why in certain areas of one mine I worked at we changed them twice a shift. They were big expensive filters which got sent to Perth for washing.
I also said about a BMW bike owner who didn't have a clue about servicing and he dusted his engine badly with a filter which was absolutely packed with dust as he used to ride into the site over hundreds of kays of dirt roads.
He told me "You shouldn't have to change filters on BMWs because they are an expensive bike......." He was a ****** in many ways actually.
AlanH.

shanegtr
30th July 2018, 06:30 AM
He told me "You shouldn't have to change filters on BMWs because they are an expensive bike......." He was a ****** in many ways actually.
AlanH.
[bigrolf]