Towing an heavy caravan etc. Should you select Sport range?

[Baytown]

Hi everyone.
Im just waiting to pick my Zone RV 20.6 ft off road van up from its service at Coolum and then head to Tassie.
While sitting here, I noted an article in Unsealed about Transmision coolers, where it stated that many manufacturers advise towing in Sport mode.
I tried to find what Land Rovers take on this for my 3L SDV6 is, but couldn’t see anything mentioned re Sport mode at all.
What do the Gurus here advise? Sport modefor towing, or just Drive mode?
Thanks for any guidance re this fellas (and fellerettes if any here!)

Ken
142579

[101RRS]

You can tow in Drive - but towing in Sport changes the gearchange points which seems to better suit towing. On straights the car will still go into top gear but will hang onto lower gears a bit longer which helps with heavier loads.

Garry

[cjc_td5]

I normally don't worry too much about Sport vs Drive modes when towing. The only thing I do is occasionally shift down using the paddles when the motor appears to be labouring on a hill, trying to hold too high a gear. In Sport it will hold the gear indefinitely vs in Drive it will shift back up again when the load comes off (ie you get to the top of the hill).

[Celtoid]

Hi,

Just a question...

Does your van have LEDs and if yes, have you a resistance set up of some sort in your car or van (in series with the indicator circuit)? A standard bulb achieves this normally, LEDs won't. If you have LEDs in the van and don't have resistance in your indicator line the D4 does 'know' that there is a van/trailer connected. Lights often work normally but that's all. When a D4 knows it is connected to something it changes the gearbox adaptions to suit towing better, turns off your reverse sensors completely and I think (don't quote me) may affect other systems in the car (brake and stability related). Not 100% on the last point but definitely affects the box and reverse sensors. Oh, and gives a trailer indicator icon on your dash.

Towing or otherwise, I believe the 8 speed box will use all 8 gears in sports but I'm certain the older 6 speed (stick shifter) wouldn't go into top in sports mode …. thus screwing your fuel economy.

Cheers,

Kev.

[dirvine]

I have a 2016.5 D4 and tow a van. As it has the LED rear lights I did not need to mod any wiring on the LED caravan. I did however put the diode on the wiring of the brake controller. When I select reverse, the rear sensors do not work. However having said that when i do select reverse I set the rear camera for tow ball line up, so that might also switch off the sensors

[Celtoid]

I have a 2016.5 D4 and tow a van. As it has the LED rear lights I did not need to mod any wiring on the LED caravan. I did however put the diode on the wiring of the brake controller. When I select reverse, the rear sensors do not work. However having said that when i do select reverse I set the rear camera for tow ball line up, so that might also switch off the sensors


All D4s models have LED rear lights....even from the 2009 build cars. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't factor at all with regards to trailer compatibility.

I haven't heard of a diode doing the same job …. but that means nothing … LOL. It's just about having enough resistive load for the car to notice something is connected. It can be in the car, on the connector cable to the trailer or van or fitted to the van. A lot of guys have simply made resistor packs and connected them somewhere in series with the indicator circuit. Some people would rather not mod their car and put the resistive load elsewhere.


I bough a box from a Melbourne (?) based company that was designed specifically to do this. The advantage is that it comes with an on off switch (simple enough to fit in a home made unit too) for times that you are towing with standard globes on your trailer/van or are not towing at all.

Do you get a trailer indicator light on your dash when you indicate to turn?

[101RRS]

Hi,

I'm certain the older 6 speed (stick shifter) wouldn't go into top in sports mode …. thus screwing your fuel economy.

Cheers,

Kev.

Not sure where that comes from but is not so - in Sport mode the gearbox does go into 6th gear just takes a while because it hangs onto 5th a bit longer.

Garry

[Celtoid]

Not sure where that comes from but is not so - in Sport mode the gearbox does go into 6th gear just takes a while because it hangs onto 5th a bit longer.

Garry

OK, I'm not certain Gary....LOL. I am certain I read it on this forum though but that would have been in 2010 when the first D4s hit the street and the knowledge base was limited and very new.....it's funny when you read back through some of the original threads [smilebigeye]. I remember trying it at the time with D4 number one (AUG 2009 build) but concurred with the other's observations when the car never seemed to reach 6th on the few occasions I tried it.

Opps [bighmmm] Sorry for the mis-information folks.

[BobD]

My 2009 build 2010 model has no trouble going into sixth gear when towing in sports mode. I always use it now and it has the added advantage that the gear box changes down as quickly as possible to add extra engine braking when you slow down using the brakes. That alone is worth using sports mode for!

[Tombie]

Short answer Ken,

Flick it in S, and use the Paddles to preempt a hill to make the vehicles life easier.

Makes it much nicer.

[justinc]

Mmmmmm... S mode, paddles and 250Kw = 😎😃😛😛😛

[Milton477]

I always use Sport mode & assist with the paddles to prevent too much speed being lost on hills while the gearbox makes up its mind about changing down.

[Hugh Jars]

I have installed the resistors and a switch for when towing a 2.5t camper. It does all the bits like the flashy trailer caption an reverse sensor override.

One thing I haven’t noticed is any change in shift behaviour when towing, so I tow in sport mode and use the paddles in the higher gears.

[dirvine]

All D4s models have LED rear lights....even from the 2009 build cars. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't factor at all with regards to trailer compatibility.

I haven't heard of a diode doing the same job …. but that means nothing … LOL. It's just about having enough resistive load for the car to notice something is connected. It can be in the car, on the connector cable to the trailer or van or fitted to the van. A lot of guys have simply made resistor packs and connected them somewhere in series with the indicator circuit. Some people would rather not mod their car and put the resistive load elsewhere.


I bough a box from a Melbourne (?) based company that was designed specifically to do this. The advantage is that it comes with an on off switch (simple enough to fit in a home made unit too) for times that you are towing with standard globes on your trailer/van or are not towing at all.

Do you get a trailer indicator light on your dash when you indicate to turn?
I just followed the brake controller wiring instructions on the "sticky" post. This has a diode for some reason to stop a "backflow" of current. I am no electrician but I can follow instructions. I get no trailer light on my dash, but given it is the last of the D4"s perhaps all the issues had been fixed.

[101RRS]

Dirvine and Celtoid - you are talking about different things - the diode is in the trailer brake system and has nothing to do with the trailer LED issues that the D3/D4 have.

The trailer light issue and the brake controller are different issues - you still have the trailer LED issue even if you tow a box trailer with no brake controller.

Basically the car sends a pulse down one of the indicator wires and if it detects a load from an incandescent lamp the car knows it has a trailer attached - in the D3 it switches off parking sensors, restricted height changes and lights up the trailer light on the dash. If there is a LED in the trailer lamp there is not enough resistance for the car to detect then is a trailer so not of the car actions happen.

There is a difference between the D3 and D4 and I am not sure of this difference. With the D3 an aftermarket module of resistors and relays is needed (I built my own) - in the D4 I think the aftermarket module only needs the resistors but you will have to do your own research on this.

Dirvine if you do not have your trailer light on your dash illuminate when you use your indicators with the trailer attached, then you need to check that you have genuine trailer plugs wiring in your car (and I assume you do) or you have another issue such as LEDS in your trailer and no aftermarket module fitted to account for this. The later D4s have tow assist built into the car so if your vehicle does not know it has a trailer attached because it is not getting the correct response from the test pulse then it is unlikely your trailer assist will be working.

You need to read up on this - there is plenty on the forum.

Garry

[cjc_td5]

Dirvine and Celtoid - you are talking about different things - the diode is in the trailer brake system and has nothing to do with the trailer LED issues that the D3/D4 have.

The trailer light issue and the brake controller are different issues - you still have the trailer LED issue even if you tow a box trailer with no brake controller.

Basically the car sends a pulse down one of the indicator wires and if it detects a load from an incandescent lamp the car knows it has a trailer attached - in the D3 it switches off parking sensors, restricted height changes and lights up the trailer light on the dash. If there is a LED in the trailer lamp there is not enough resistance for the car to detect then is a trailer so not of the car actions happen.

There is a difference between the D3 and D4 and I am not sure of this difference. With the D3 an aftermarket module of resistors and relays is needed (I built my own) - in the D4 I think the aftermarket module only needs the resistors but you will have to do your own research on this.

Dirvine if you do not have your trailer light on your dash illuminate when you use your indicators with the trailer attached, then you need to check that you have genuine trailer plugs wiring in your car (and I assume you do) or you have another issue such as LEDS in your trailer and no aftermarket module fitted to account for this. The later D4s have tow assist built into the car so if your vehicle does not know it has a trailer attached because it is not getting the correct response from the test pulse then it is unlikely your trailer assist will be working.

You need to read up on this - there is plenty on the forum.

Garry

To add to Garry's post.
For the D4 resistors only are required. The D4 sends the same pulses to detect a trailer but only once when started or when the driver's door is open or shut (IIRC?). It does not do it continually (as a D3 does) so relays are not required.
You will only get the trailer turning light if there is resistance in that particular turning circuit. For instance I have a switchable resistor installed in the LH indicator trailer plug circuit. When turned on the vehicle detects this at startup and instigates the trailer mode. If I indicate left the trailer light will flash but if indicating right it will not.

Cheers,
Chris

[Celtoid]

In my very rusty understanding of electronics I couldn't figure how the diode would achieve anything regarding the trailer LED issue. I assumed it was relevant to the brake control unit only. Since I don't have a brake control unit fitted to my car and didn't know what the diode was supposed to be achieving, I stated that I had no idea what the diode could be doing. Wasn't about to comment one way or the other.

I've read shed loads of threads on this forum over the years on trailer assist and have seen a lot of comments stating that trailer assist works regardless of the car being aware of having a trailer fitted or not. It makes sense that it should be activated only when the car registers the trailer but that doesn't mean that's how LR achieved the outcome (car may just react to having arse end sway). Once again … can't comment.

I've a Linear Electronics box in series with my D4s LH indicator. The trailer indications works regardless of whether I indicate left or right. This I know as a fact …. I just checked [bigsmile1]. When the box is on, the car thinks it has a trailer connected …. it doesn't matter if you have or not as the car has no other way of telling.

I'm sure if LR put their mind to it, a micro in the plug coupled to some electronic magic (the car is full of the ****), would solve this problem. Why they chose not to is perplexing.

[dirvine]

I am now completely confused. Yes I agree the diode was for the brake controller (sorry for misinformation). But after I attach my caravan, the rear parking sensors when selecting reverse do not go off. If the van is not connected via the plugs the sensors beep (even when with trailer hitch line up is selected on the camera). I have never seen an icon on the dash saying trailer connected. I have had my van swaying as some big rigs pass me and sometimes my car beeps so I presume the trailer assist etc must be working. I might see others at the WW2018 and see what they think next week.

[101RRS]

If your rear park sensors go off when the trailer is connected and the dash symbol does not come on when you indicate then simply your car is not recognising it has the trailer fitted.

Are your trailer indicators LEDs or Incandescent - if they are incandescent then you have a wiring issue in the car. If they are LEDS then the car is not detecting the LEDs and hence the trailer - so either change your indicators to incandescent (or if you have side indicators as well change these to incandescent) or buy or make a module to correct this issue.

Garry

[dirvine]

I have now closely looked at my 2015 dated Owners Handbook. Page 92 says Trailer Stability Assist (TSA) is automatic and does not work when DSC is switched off. On page 54 the dash green indicator is for a bulb check only on the caravan or trailer. I physically check mine before I start off. It does say that if the trailer is fitted with LED lights the bulb check will not be performed. Hence a physical check is what I would recommend. On page 125 it talks about the rear camera options for views. On page 123 it says If a trailer is connected to a Land Rover approved trailer socket, (I assume the two sockets under the rear cover on the bumper bar) the rear sensors will be disabled. Given my car is one of the last imported into AUS, this would suggest that any car made from 2015 onwards would have all these features as standard. Hope this clears everything up.

[discomatt69]

And just to add to the confusion, I have a on/off switch in the back, trailer connected with switch on all trailer lights work and trailer light when indicating but sensors still go off and beep like crazy, very annoying when trying to reverse the trailer into tight locations with the cheese and kisses directing and I am trying to concentrate...
Switch off trailer lights don't work correctly and no light with indicators

[101RRS]

Hope this clears everything up.

Well no - if your rear park sensors still work when the van is connected and the trailer light on the dash does not illuminate when you turn when the trailer is connected (yes it is a bulb check - flashes when the trailer indicator lights flash) then you have an issue - most likely LEDs in the trailer.

Good luck with it.

Garry

[HUE166]

It's a shame that a manual gear box is si rare now.

[cjc_td5]

I have now closely looked at my 2015 dated Owners Handbook. Page 92 says Trailer Stability Assist (TSA) is automatic and does not work when DSC is switched off. On page 54 the dash green indicator is for a bulb check only on the caravan or trailer. I physically check mine before I start off. It does say that if the trailer is fitted with LED lights the bulb check will not be performed. Hence a physical check is what I would recommend. On page 125 it talks about the rear camera options for views. On page 123 it says If a trailer is connected to a Land Rover approved trailer socket, (I assume the two sockets under the rear cover on the bumper bar) the rear sensors will be disabled. Given my car is one of the last imported into AUS, this would suggest that any car made from 2015 onwards would have all these features as standard. Hope this clears everything up.You will have Trailer Assist only if you have a reversing camera. Mine didn't from the factory, I installed a generic unit myself so don't have the bendy lines or trailer assist functions.

I believe you are correct in saying the trailer light on the dash is a bulb check only and will not work if led trailer lights are used. If your rear sensors are disabling then the vehicle is detecting a trailer through its pulse looking for resistance in the system. As I said above, I have a resistor on one indicator side only. The vehicle finds this resistance and disables my rear sensors but the trailer light on the dash only works on the one side that the resistor is in.

[cjc_td5]

It's a shame that a manual gear box is si rare now.I love my manuals but the 8 speed auto in the D4 is a cracker. It locks up in all gears so essentially drives like a self shifting manual. It can be manually changed using the paddles on the steering wheel.

[Celtoid]

You will have Trailer Assist only if you have a reversing camera. Mine didn't from the factory, I installed a generic unit myself so don't have the bendy lines or trailer assist functions.

I believe you are correct in saying the trailer light on the dash is a bulb check only and will not work if led trailer lights are used. If your rear sensors are disabling then the vehicle is detecting a trailer through its pulse looking for resistance in the system. As I said above, I have a resistor on one indicator side only. The vehicle finds this resistance and disables my rear sensors but the trailer light on the dash only works on the one side that the resistor is in.

I think we're getting Trailer Assist confused. It's got nothing to do with the reverse camera at all. It's part of the cars stability control (for want of a better term). It corrects sway induced onto the trailer (and then the car) with no input required from the driver. In dirvine's example, a passing truck's wind effect is countered by the system. In the LR promo video it shows the system also counters driver induced sway.

[cjc_td5]

I think we're getting Trailer Assist confused. It's got nothing to do with the reverse camera at all. It's part of the cars stability control (for want of a better term). It corrects sway induced onto the trailer (and then the car) with no input required from the driver. In dirvine's example, a passing truck's wind effect is countered by the system. In the LR promo video the system also counters driver induced sway.Yep, I thought dirvine was talking about the trailer reversing smarts via the camera. Trailer Stability control is totally different of course.

[Celtoid]

And just to add to the confusion, I have a on/off switch in the back, trailer connected with switch on all trailer lights work and trailer light when indicating but sensors still go off and beep like crazy, very annoying when trying to reverse the trailer into tight locations with the cheese and kisses directing and I am trying to concentrate...
Switch off trailer lights don't work correctly and no light with indicators

That is weird. Can you turn the volume down using the sound system? My first D4 had no reverse sensor volume control but my MY13 does.

[Celtoid]

I have now closely looked at my 2015 dated Owners Handbook. Page 92 says Trailer Stability Assist (TSA) is automatic and does not work when DSC is switched off. On page 54 the dash green indicator is for a bulb check only on the caravan or trailer. I physically check mine before I start off. It does say that if the trailer is fitted with LED lights the bulb check will not be performed. Hence a physical check is what I would recommend. On page 125 it talks about the rear camera options for views. On page 123 it says If a trailer is connected to a Land Rover approved trailer socket, (I assume the two sockets under the rear cover on the bumper bar) the rear sensors will be disabled. Given my car is one of the last imported into AUS, this would suggest that any car made from 2015 onwards would have all these features as standard. Hope this clears everything up.

That is interesting …. kinda ironic if LR solved the issue for the final model … LOL!!!

[Tombie]

There are 2 distinct LR functions:

TSA - trailer stability assist
TA - tow assist

TSA detects sway and reduces engine power and gently applies brakes to regain control. It functions even when the trailer plug is not connected. It doesn’t work with DSC turned off.

TA is the targeting system to assist reversing trailers.

[Tombie]

Double post removed

[discomatt69]

That is weird. Can you turn the volume down using the sound system? My first D4 had no reverse sensor volume control but my MY13 does.
I don't thinks so, will check it out, I do need to spend some more time getting to know a few different bits of the D4

[DiscoTom]

Hi everyone.
Im just waiting to pick my Zone RV 20.6 ft off road van up from its service at Coolum and then head to Tassie.
While sitting here, I noted an article in Unsealed about Transmision coolers, where it stated that many manufacturers advise towing in Sport mode.
I tried to find what Land Rovers take on this for my 3L SDV6 is, but couldn’t see anything mentioned re Sport mode at all.
What do the Gurus here advise? Sport modefor towing, or just Drive mode?
Thanks for any guidance re this fellas (and fellerettes if any here!)

Ken
142579


Hi Ken,
we picked up our 20.6 Zone Venture a couple of months ago and I tow the D5 in drive mode.

mind u I have had a switch installed in the rear boot area, which switches off the rear sensors and keeps the D5 in gear slightly longer
to help with the towing side of things. a kind of "towing mode" or "trailer mode".
it also checks the blinkers when these are switched on, with the results showing on the dash.
very similar to D3 that I owned quite a few years ago.

cheers Tom