Sydney Series Owner; Electrickery question.

[Tikirocker]

G'day all,

I've got the 2a down to the chassis with bulkhead, engine, gearbox and drivetrain still in place. I started off labelling all the wiring but decided long ago that it was so old and so botched by previous owners to just start again. The original bulkhead is being replaced as is the rear tub ( it's an 88 ) ... the question is do I go with a traditional wiring loom from Vintage looms or would it be cheaper and more practical to find an auto-electrician to build a new loom for me and install it with all the little bits I want to run accessories? I have a Holden red 186 in mine so even a vintag loom would require some changes anyway. If I can find a sparky and agree on price I can just rip all the old wiring out finally and remove the old bulkhead at last.

Supposing I decide to get a sparky to make me a loom, can anyone recommend a good affordable autosparky that could do me the job since I am not experienced in electrics - in the Sydney or Blue Mtns region?

Any thoughts or recommendations apreciated. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[JDNSW]

The wiring on a 2a is pretty simple. This means that since getting a new loom made is fairly expensive, it is likely that getting an electrician to "just make you a loom" is likely to cost no more although the difference is not likely to be great. But since the major cost is labour, and the loom maker is probably more experienced at it, the specialist loom maker is likely to be cheaper. The people who make looms pretty much make them to order, so modifications to suit your Holden motor would probably not cost any different. You may have the choice of a lower price by using modern rather than original materials, but as I said, labour is the major cost so I would not expect a big difference in cost.

Unless you are looking to originality (and the Holden motor suggests you are not) the original wiring can be significantly improved, mainly by putting in a few more fuses plus headlight relays, and regardless of which way you go you should consider adding wiring for radio, UHF, telephone, driving lights, reversing lights, hazard lights, interior lights, and anything else you can think of that you may need in the future

[incisor]

Hi

have a look at a mob called Vintage Harness http://www.vinwire.com.au/

also a mob in england http://www.autosparks.co.uk/

they both do harness for landies. I cant see a autosparky doing them for the prices they can.

[Tikirocker]

Thanks both for your input ... Vinwires were who I was referring to as Vintage Looms and I'll probably end up going with the correct 2A loom from them and just get any changes built into the job. I have spoken to Vinwires a year or so ago so it will be easy to organize.

Just one of about a zillion jobs yet to be done!

EDIT: Incisor ...

I'm really enjoying your photo albums of Daddy et al, my 66 2A ( Bronson ) had the Holden 186 in it when I bought from the previous owner, replete with oil cooler infront of the rad. I see that you replaced Daddies 186 back to a Deisel and would be very interested to hear your thoughts regarding performance and economy when compared to the the 186. I am in such a stage of complete rebuild that with new wiring I could drop a new donk in myself and am open to ideas and suggestions.

Thanks, Simon.

[UncleHo]

G'day Tikirocker https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
What model is your 2a :?: as there is two different wiring harness's one for the Positive Earth models up to Chassis suffix "C" and one for the Negitive earth models Chassis Suffix "D" onwards the change over was late 1967 early 68 The wiring harness would not need much alteration as the engine wiring would be the same https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ with only minor length differences for the Oil sender, Temp sender, the starter is on the same side as a 4cyl Landy so that wiring should fit OK, and any extra accessories would have been added to the existing wires,

If you are thinking of an engine change I would suggest returning to the 4cylinder Landy 2.25 long stroke as the rest of the drive train is designed for that power/rev range , with the 2.25 max torque is at about 2400 revs which is suited to the 4.7 ratio diffs, The Holden motor is a short stroke design and a high revver, with torque peaking at a much higher engine speed, with the 4.7s that is why they are always seem to be screeming their head off and a habit of breaking gearboxes https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

hope that is of some help https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Tikirocker]

G'day Ho!

Thanks for chiming in mate; ok, here's the deal ... the suffix number on my 2A, which is an 88", is B; but considering the Holden donk and the few other accessories which it had added by the time I bought it I presume it was converted to negative earth, right? As I said, I'm no sparky and extremely green to that side of things. One thing I do know is that I am the fourth owner of the vehicle since it was bought new and I know from the previous owner the vehicle history right back to the first owner. There is some confusion however as to whether I have a 64 or a 66 2A on my hands ... I have checked the serials in the past but forget why it was a toss up between a 64 or 66 but I've always stuck with 66.

Here's what I got ...Vehicle no = 24306249-B

Body Number = 8509
Ser Number = 888509

Regarding the electrics to engine bay etc, the Landy also ran a regulator off the engine bay firewall ... I believe that would require alteration in the wiring harness also. I'm dubious about returning to a 4 cyl Landy engine due to possible loss of guts ... though I am very much open to discussion on this for reasons of economy as much as anything else. Did I hear something somewhere about Volvo engines of some sort being a great fit for a Series Landy also? Luckily when I bought Bronson the owner gave me a spare gearbox which is the original gearbox ... he recommended refitting the original since it is perfect nick while the one in there now since purchase is missing a tooth in second ... clack,clack,clack ... https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[JDNSW]

The Holden engine was mainly fitted because it used to be a lot cheaper to convert rather than overhaul the original engine - I doubt this still applies. While you get more power, as Uncle Ho comments, the Holden power and torque curves do not really suit the gearing, so it is a bit doubtful whether the overall performance will be better with the Holden engine - just different. Fuel economy will be much the same with either engine. Neither engine will give comparable performance to a modern four wheel drive, but I presume you know this.

[UncleHo]

G'day Tikirocker https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

The Chassis No that you gave puts it between 64-66 88" WB CKD (Complete Knock Down kit) RH Drive https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ as I have a few records of chassis numbers in the 24357----B as 1964, so that this vehicle could well have been sold in 65-66 the original owners papers would tell you https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ This vehicle would have originaly been of the Positive earth type, and would have had, combined Ign & Headlamp switch,with a push button Soleniod Switch, the Dash Instruments and Switches differ to the later toggle type, so if you are going to buy a new one you woud be need to get the early one https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ All 2a's were fitted with a Generator and Regulator, and if you fit another motor, be it Landy 4 or other it is easy for an Auto Elec to by-pass the Regulator, as mine has been (just means that a cople of wires get joined up missing the Reg. out :wink:

The benefits ?????? of the Holden are: high revving, high engine temps, gearbox failures, axle breakages, :roll: for not much added speed, and about the same fuel consumption, worse in some cases,
I have not heard of the Volvo motor swap https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ is that is Aust or O/seas ? as they could have motors over there that never got to Aust.


Hope that is of some help https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[LandyAndy]

Hi
If you can tackle the rebuild yourself the wiring isnt too hard.
There is a site that hopefully still exsists,its the best Series/holden 6 site you could find. Mustang Sallys Landrover pages.
Cant find the web addy in my notebook,but if you google it in australia(QLD site) you should find it very easily.
Allsorts of info about Series Landys,you will get lost in there for days 8) 8) 8) 8)
Andrew

[Tikirocker]

Originally posted by UncleHo
G'day Tikirocker https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

The Chassis No that you gave puts it between 64-66 88" WB CKD (Complete Knock Down kit) RH Drive https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ as I have a few records of chassis numbers in the 24357----B as 1964, so that this vehicle could well have been sold in 65-66 the original owners papers would tell you https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Thanks Uncle!

That basically supports my original theory that there was some date issue between 64-66 but I don't have anything like the original papers ... the first owner died in a Gyro accident as he was a Gyro pilot! https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ I've just always stuck with 66 as a date to make things simple. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ Regarding the CKD, I still have the original vehicle I.D plate from the Sydney Pressed Metal Corp who assembled it ... which has the logo plus body and ser number

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> This vehicle would have originaly been of the Positive earth type, and would have had, combined Ign & Headlamp switch,with a push button Soleniod Switch, [/b][/quote]

All correct ... https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>All 2a's were fitted with a Generator and Regulator, and if you fit another motor, be it Landy 4 or other it is easy for an Auto Elec to by-pass the Regulator, as mine has been (just means that a cople of wires get joined up missing the Reg. out :wink: [/b][/quote]

Good to know mate, I must confess that prior to buying this Landy I have had zero mechanical experience at all but I do own a copy of the Green Bible so all I really have is that and faith. I have managed to strip the body down to the rolling chassis with engine and drive train left in. My next job is to remove the rotten Bulkhead which will require removing all accel linkages and brake and clutch units etc ... slightly daunting for the likes of me with so many parts to keep track of. I'm hoping I can find another enthusiast near me to lend a hand with a few jobs in the very near future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The benefits ?????? of the Holden are: high revving, high engine temps, gearbox failures, axle breakages, :roll: for not much added speed, and about the same fuel consumption, worse in some cases,[/b][/quote]

Interesting that there are sooooo many Series landies filled with Holden Donks though and with fewer complaints than you'd give credit for given the mismatch. I may have to stick with the 186 for the intial rebuild and drop something else in later ... funds are always an issue.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I have not heard of the Volvo motor swap https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ is that is Aust or O/seas ? as they could have motors over there that never got to Aust. [/b][/quote]

My mistake, I got it confused with a certain Ford motor which escapes me right now but I believe it's long stroke and better suited than the Holden ... might be a good alternative at a later date if I can find out more. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Best, Simon

[Tikirocker]

Originally posted by LandyAndy
Hi
If you can tackle the rebuild yourself the wiring isnt too hard.
There is a site that hopefully still exsists,its the best Series/holden 6 site you could find. Mustang Sallys Landrover pages.
Cant find the web addy in my notebook,but if you google it in australia(QLD site) you should find it very easily.
Allsorts of info about Series Landys,you will get lost in there for days 8) 8) 8) 8)
Andrew

Hey Andy ... https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Whether I can tackle the rebuild or not has been the constant question I ask myself since buying Bronson back in 2001!!!! :eek: I initially stripped everything off in mid 2002 and then realized what needed doing and then the limitations of my experience - funds played a part at that time also but the will is strong. I'm trying to learn and keep courage as I go in small increments but it sure would be nice to have a fellow enthusiast to help me out from time to time. I removed the 88 hardtop myself standing inside the rear tub and lifting it up and out on my shoulders! I realized it was not really meant to be carried on one mans back when I looked at LROI mags and guys were doing it all with small forklifts ... same goes for gearboxes and firewalls which I carry about on my lonesome from A to B. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Re Mustang Sally ... well yes indeed, I know Peter from back in the early days of the original Black Stump forum which was run then by Irek/Turtle68 ... I should probably e-mail him and try and swing by for a visit some time. I found Petes old site again today doing a search so it was funny you mentioned him here. The bugger right now also is there are some jobs that I don't have the right tools for ... the bushes and bolts in the springs are totally fused to the chassis and the spring eyes ... one of the shackle pins is bent and then fused to the inner bushing which is then fused to the spring eye! ... I have no hope of removing them by conventional means and with the chassis broken down this far no hope of sorting it unless I bang it on a trailer and get someone to do it for me ... LVS are miles away even though I'm in the Blue Mtns. So right now I'm suffering ( rebuild blues ) a few obstacles which have staggered my progress.

Does this sound like unreasonable whinging? https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Best, Simon.

[rick130]

actually, a 186's torque peak is at 1600 RPM, which is excellent for a 4WD. This is the reason my uncle swapped his 4cyl out over 25 years ago in his Series 3. He already had a Fairy O/D fitted, which helped with the reduced rev range of the Holden donk.
Obviously the thing was better at the traffic lights than with the 4, although you had to watch those rear axles (he only ever broke one !)

The 4cyl was an excellent engine, after he threw away the stock exhaust and manifold and fitted a set of Perry extractors and a 2" exhaust and played around with the carby. He could get a 140km/h (indicated) out of it ! (we were following him one night down the F5 in one of Dad's then Holden panel vans. Dad bailed at 140 km/h indicated and the Landy was pulling away !)

We were really surprised when he ditched the Landy engine for the Holden, as the 4cyl went so well, but he was one who liked to fiddle, and had a stack of Hoilden bits and pieces, and a few engines, hanging around.

[mark2]

Originally posted by rick130


The 4cyl was an excellent engine, after he threw away the stock exhaust and manifold and fitted a set of Perry extractors and a 2" exhaust and played around with the carby. He could get a 140km/h (indicated) out of it ! (we were following him one night down the F5 in one of Dad's then Holden panel vans. Dad bailed at 140 km/h indicated and the Landy was pulling away !)



I'll second that. A reasonbly fresh 2.25 and a set of extractors can perform surprisingly well. I had one with a holden stromberg carb (must use an adjustable main jet) and it was great.

The spring bushes can try your patience but it is possible. Cut of the bent shackle, drill all around the old rubber between the two sleeves and keep at it. Once you get the center sleeve out, start carefully cutting slots in the outer one being careful not to go into the chassis and then drive the cut bits out. Put your hacksaw blades through the hole. It took me about an afternoon after work for the first one and then it got quicker as things usually do.

If the will is there, you can do it on your own. I stripped and galvanised my chassis and firewall by myself. I'd suggest using clear ziplock snandwich bags for all nuts and bolts and small parts from each section.
Makes reassembly a lot less formidable.

Definitly buy a complete loom - it will be a lot cheaper than getting a sparky to build you one and will finish off the vehicle properly. I was lucky enough to get a brand army surplus series 2A loom for only $60 from FWD motors in Brisbane. That was about 5 years ago now but it doesnt hurt to call..........

[Tikirocker]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The spring bushes can try your patience but it is possible. Cut of the bent shackle, drill all around the old rubber between the two sleeves and keep at it. Once you get the center sleeve out, start carefully cutting slots in the outer one being careful not to go into the chassis and then drive the cut bits out. Put your hacksaw blades through the hole. It took me about an afternoon after work for the first one and then it got quicker as things usually do.[/b][/quote]

Actually I am cool with doing all of the above but the issue is that I can't remove the shackles because the shackle pin itself is bent as well as fused to the bushes. The only solution I have ever seen to this is to have the pin burn't out with a blow torch ... which I have no experience in using personally. If I could get the shackles off and get to the pins I'd have no problem using elbow grease drilling and chiselling the rest out as suggested.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> I'd suggest using clear ziplock snandwich bags for all nuts and bolts and small parts from each section. Makes reassembly a lot less formidable.[/b][/quote]

Actually, that's exactly what I did when I stripped everything down to the rolling chassis. I'm ending up with ALLOT of bags.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Definitly buy a complete loom - it will be a lot cheaper than getting a sparky to build you one and will finish off the vehicle properly. I was lucky enough to get a brand army surplus series 2A loom for only $60 from FWD motors in Brisbane. That was about 5 years ago now but it doesnt hurt to call..........[/b][/quote]

I'm not familiar with Brizzie 4wd's ... do you have any contact details?

[LandyAndy]

Hi Simon
You just need to spend a little more time on it,then the bug will bite 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Ive had the pleasure of removing the chassis bushes on a couple,one with the bolt fused as yours is.
I drilled as mutch rubber out as possible then a heavy hammer breaks the left over rubber.
To get the steel part out of the chassis I get a piece of steel and weld it inside the bush then whilst its still hot lay into it with a drift and that heavy hammer,a couple of hits and it usually moves.
When re-fiting the new bushes,use originals,poly bushes dont last at all in series landies.Coat the new ones with coppercote grease,next time you need to replace them they will come out easier.
All the best
Andrew

[Tikirocker]

Hey Andy.

Thanks mate, as I said before the problm is I can't get the shackle plates off because the shackle pin bolt is actually bent and fused and won't allow me to get at the bushes at all. It seems to me right now that I can't attack the bushes until I can get the shackles off ... therein lies my problem. Beyond that I have no experience in welding so my troubles remain in the meantime in any case due to the stuck shackles. I have always had every intention of refitting standard bushes ... with lashings of copper grease!!! https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

I may have to butcher the shackles ... not sure how to go about it though as I want to be careful not to damage the spring hangers. I have good experience with the angle grinder, that's for sure.

[JDNSW]

I have been there - last week, replacing the spring on a Landrover based farm trailer. I found that it was possible to get a cutting wheel between the shackle plate and the chassis and cut off the shackle pin. (If necessary cut into the shackle plate rather than the chassis or spring - they are not that expensive, and if only slightly damaged you can turn them round and use the other side. Also, you should be able to wedge the whole assembly to each side in succession to make a little bit more room.) Once you have done this you can drill out the rubber bit by bit and then cut through the outer sleeve with a hacksaw and remove it with a suitable cold chisel or punch. It can also be removed using a suitable sized socket, a long 1/2" bolt or threaded rod, a tube and an assortment of washers, but this won't work if it is rusted in unless you put a cut in it.

[Tikirocker]

Thanks JD,

Nice to see I'm not alone there ... I think the plan will be to try and grind the nut off the outside of the shackle itself at both ends and then try and prize the shackle aside from one end and see if I can get a drill bit at the bush to allow movement of the shackle pin. I'll let ya know how I get on ...