'09 Headlight High Beam stopped working but Low Beam working ok - What the?

[Robmacca]

Gents.....

This was the first time I've driven my Puma at Night and all was working OK until I went to turn on HIGH BEAM and everything went dark. I flicked back to Low beam and all OK and then switched again to High Beam and dark again but I did notice that the HIGH Beam indicator on the dash was ON though...

According to what I can find there is a Fuse for the RHS and LHS headlights which seems a bit weird. The Parkers are working fine, Dash lights working fine, High beam indicator on dash all ok, it's just the HIGH beam. I can hear what I can only assume is the Headlight relay click in/out so I'm not sure if I've blown both fuses or it's a dodgy relay.... Its a bit hard in the dark but I was wondering if someone might have an idea as to what has happened? I don't think it could be the light switch in the steering column as all seems OK with Low Beam + the High Beam indicator works as well

wondering if anyone has any ideas ???

[theelms66]

Could be as simple a 2 blown high beam filaments. Take a globe out and have a look. Otherwise a test light in the globe plug .

[Don 130]

Running lots of current through your headlights switch by towing something with lots of lights, like a camper trailer, can melt one of the terminals on your headlight switch and cause a problem like what you've got. If that's what has happened, you'll need a new switch and to prevent it happening again, fit a relay to the circuit to avoid running all the current through the switch. Or better still, fit a headlight wiring upgrade kit from Tim at Traxide (http://www.traxide.com.au/additional-products/headlight-wiring-kits/def-headlight-wiring-upgrad.html)
Don.

[Grappler]

If the main beam pilot is coming on, fuse 24 is OK. Fuses 24 and 25 are the last fuses in the in the left and right hibeam circuits
However if the dip stalk switch is faulty, full power may not be getting to the lights but enough to power the pilot. Check that full power is available at fuse 24 and 25

The high and low beam earths are common so if lo works the earth is ok.
As suggested you may be unlucky to have both highbeam filaments failed. Easy to check by testing direct to battery

[Grappler]

Here is a diagram for the lights. I think it will apply to an 09


Mainbeam are K and J kleft and right and the Mainbeam pilot is A
Hope that helps

[Robmacca]

Well... I'm bamboozled....

Checked all Fuses and all ok, checked Bulbs and all OK... Checked the colour code of wires at the Headlight Bulb and they differ to what the manual says... (see photos attached)

Looking head-on at the Headlight Plug at the Terminals the colours are as follows:

Looking at the Plug at the Headlight face-on going from Left to Right

(1) - LHS Wire Colour Red/Yellow
(2) - TOP Wire Colour Red/Green
(3) - RHS Wire Colour Red/White

Now, here's the interesting thing. With both R&L headlight bulbs out and ignition OFF/ HL switch OFF, at Terminal (3) there is a constant 12v supply.... What the ??

Looking at the wiring Diagram, the feed comes from the BJB > Lighting Control Sw. > Headlight Relay > Column Sw > Central Fuse Box > Headlight Bulbs > Earth.

Why would there be 12volts at the Bulb connector with everything OFF?

Low Beam seems to be working OK but still no H/B....

Any ideas??






Here is a diagram for the lights. I think it will apply to an 09


Mainbeam are K and J kleft and right and the Mainbeam pilot is A
Hope that helps

[Grappler]

Another thought
Have you tried to activate the high beam by flashing the column stalk switch? If that works the mainbeam contact in the stalk switch is probably faulty. The highbeam flash is on an indepenedent circuit

[Robmacca]

Another thought
Have you tried to activate the high beam by flashing the column stalk switch? If that works the mainbeam contact in the stalk switch is probably faulty. The highbeam flash is on an indepenedent circuit

No, tried that w/o success as well :(


Also, when I checked the supply at the fuses, I cycled through the high and low beam via the column switch and it all seemed to work as normal. I confused as to why there is 12v at the bulb plug when everything is turned off.... ?

[Grappler]

That is weird. Has the 12v you get at the globe plug and the fuses got enough grunt to light the bulb
A source of 12volts when the ignition and light switch is off is from the highbeam flash circuit. Perhaps the stalk contacts are burnt and leaking restricted 12v
Not sure about the wire colurs. The diagram is for a 07-11(from Aulro daves PUMA CD). I will have a look at my Defender if I can see it without pulling it aprt. Iwas in there a few months ago to install LED headlights. Cant remember the colours

[DazzaTD5]

I confused as to why there is 12v at the bulb plug when everything is turned off.... ?

With everything off, there should be no power to any pins.
*When you look at the plug, as how you have the picture, the centre one is low beam, the high beam is the left one and the earth is the right one.
*see my pic.
*different coloured plug, wiring different colour, i woudlnt be too concerned..... Land Rover...

*so... a sticking relay, swap for another the same?
*the dip switch is faulty.

P.S
*ah haa... so you say there is 12V on the earth pin? with everything off? ..... its must be a short from a 12v source (yeah yeah low beam works right, no rym or reason sometimes)
*unwrap the harness and try to find the short.
*In fact have a look up by the brake booster, there is a harness running along the edge of the wing panel, look for chaffing there, if I am not mistaken (and it does happen all the time) the head lights and other stuff runs along there to inside the firewall.

[Grappler]

Mine are blue wires with various stripes as per the diagram

Has yours had an upgrade? Maybe there is a relay added in that has failed?

[Robmacca]

Thanks Daz.....

Sounds reasonable but for it to be a short and NOT blow any fuses is a bit strange. I know when I only had ONE bulb in (ie LHS bulb in) and checked the plug on the RHS, I found that ALL 3 Terminals (pins) had 12volt supply on them. With both Bulbs out I had 12v on both the RHS and LHS plugs on the "EARTH" pins (Pins on the RHS of plug) only and the other 2 pins had no volts.
Now, for there to be a short and NOT blow fuses there MUST be some sort of resistance (ie:load) to prevent the fuse from blowing....

I'll have a look for any sort of rubbing but there's not a lot of space to see the wires under the bonnet of a puma.... It
s just strange that with nothing been touched on the car that between times of driving it at night that this has popped it's head up..... very confusing :(



With everything off, there should be no power to any pins.
*When you look at the plug, as how you have the picture, the centre one is low beam, the high beam is the left one and the earth is the right one.
*see my pic.
*different coloured plug, wiring different colour, i woudlnt be too concerned..... Land Rover...

*so... a sticking relay, swap for another the same?
*the dip switch is faulty.

P.S
*ah haa... so you say there is 12V on the earth pin? with everything off? ..... its must be a short from a 12v source (yeah yeah low beam works right, no rym or reason sometimes)
*unwrap the harness and try to find the short.
*In fact have a look up by the brake booster, there is a harness running along the edge of the wing panel, look for chaffing there, if I am not mistaken (and it does happen all the time) the head lights and other stuff runs along there to inside the firewall.

[DazzaTD5]

yes you would think so right, so try disconnecting the dip switch and see if there is still power

[inken_dave]

Gents.....

This was the first time I've driven my Puma at Night and all was working OK until I went to turn on HIGH BEAM and everything went dark. I flicked back to Low beam and all OK and then switched again to High Beam and dark again but I did notice that the HIGH Beam indicator on the dash was ON though...

According to what I can find there is a Fuse for the RHS and LHS headlights which seems a bit weird. The Parkers are working fine, Dash lights working fine, High beam indicator on dash all ok, it's just the HIGH beam. I can hear what I can only assume is the Headlight relay click in/out so I'm not sure if I've blown both fuses or it's a dodgy relay.... Its a bit hard in the dark but I was wondering if someone might have an idea as to what has happened? I don't think it could be the light switch in the steering column as all seems OK with Low Beam + the High Beam indicator works as well

wondering if anyone has any ideas ???

Hey Robmacca.....

Have had a quick read of your posts and others.

So most new cars and trucks are negatively switched! This means that power is fed to both filaments in the bulb and then each is passed through to the earth via the headlight switch. My Puma 2013 is negatively switched, I know this as I have just added Led Driving lights to it, and required a negatively switched loom.

So this means that you will read power(Volts) on all wires on the H4 socket. As you are reading the supply, then the voltage potential through each filament.

So this is normal.

It then is a question on the earth during switching! My guess is the switch itself as this is a full flow switch I think.

Have you tried pulling back on the dip switch to flash the high beam? If the high beam works when flashing them(pulling back on the dip switch), then I'd guess the headlight switch is worn/broken?

This is where I'd be looking!

[Robmacca]

I'm surprised that yours is negatively switched as that's opposite to what the LR factory wiring diagram shows. On mine at the Headlight plug, not all 3 pins have 12v, only 1 which from what I gathered is the negative.... but again I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that it was negatively switched as this would make more sense having ONE pin always alive and the other 2 for your H/L beams heading back to the switch on the column.....

It just confuses me when I try to interpret the LR wiring diagram as it all seems fairly simple from the diagram but when I try to apply that to the vehicle to fault find it doesn't work.... Wish I was an Auto Electy.... :(




Hey Robmacca.....

Have had a quick read of your posts and others.

So most new cars and trucks are negatively switched! This means that power is fed to both filaments in the bulb and then each is passed through to the earth via the headlight switch. My Puma 2013 is negatively switched, I know this as I have just added Led Driving lights to it, and required a negatively switched loom.

So this means that you will read power(Volts) on all wires on the H4 socket. As you are reading the supply, then the voltage potential through each filament.

So this is normal.

It then is a question on the earth during switching! My guess is the switch itself as this is a full flow switch I think.

Have you tried pulling back on the dip switch to flash the high beam? If the high beam works when flashing them(pulling back on the dip switch), then I'd guess the headlight switch is worn/broken?

This is where I'd be looking!

[DazzaTD5]

Most Japanese vehicles are negative switched, its a common thing, this is correct.

I've got a 2009 Defender sitting in the workshop, its not neg switched.

but the OP plug and wire colours is different to what I looked at.

if thats the case, go back to changing the globes out

[theelms66]

Ok .sounds like they are negatively controlled. With both lamps plugged in and lights off if you can probe a test light on the lamp connector.you will have power on all 3 terminals. If so switch on low beam and you should lose power to the middle terminal. This is completing the low beam circuit by providing an earth through the dip switch..if you can decifer the wiring on the dip switch and earth the high beam wire it may narrow down the problem to a dip switch

[Robmacca]

Well, I've been giving this some thought and having 12v at the bulb plug on all 3 terminals, it just didn't add up to what the wiring diagram shows plus when I turn on the headlights and flick the HB on I'm hearing a relay click. Looking at the wiring diagram it doesn't show a relay except for the HB flash. Also for having 12v at the plug definitely indicates negative switched.

Today, I spent some time tracing wires, etc and I ended up finding a block of 3 relays tucked down beside the inner guard and fresh air intake motor housing mounted on the firewall. Upon closer look there was lots of dirt build up and what looked like green corrosion. Managed to remove the 3 relays and could see the corrosion and what not. I then tested the relays and found one of 3 stuffed. So I'm assuming that is the issue but I probably need to mount these relays in a better spot where water can easily drain away and dry.... To do the job properly, it probably needs bigger wiring too to cater for voltage drop. Hopefully over time I will do this but for now, I'll just try and reposition the relays and put new relays in....

btw: Is there any way of dissolving the green corrosion that is around the spade connections as a temporary measure or is it best to replace them now?

[theelms66]

Electrical contact cleaner can from most auto stores

[Robmacca]

Problem solved.... turned out that the previous owner must have paid to have an aftermarket wiring harness installed to solve the interior light switch failure. It looks like it was wired to switch the negative & not the positive....

Now just to sort out why my interior light only works when u manually turn it on and not also when u open the doors but the alarm still works .....

[Dorian]

Now just to sort out why my interior light only works when u manually turn it on and not also when u open the doors but the alarm still works .....

The auto side of the interior lights is driven by the security controller. If my experience is anything to go by, the previous owner has probably blown this output on the security system and hence no more auto interior lights.

My solution was to run a relay driven off the doors input (all 5 doors go to the one input) to the security system, this relay then drives the auto function of the interior lights.

Cheers Glen

NB, don't muck about with the green stuff, just cut it off. Take a look at the wires cause it can start to creep up those to. It's exactly like rust, if you leave the smallest amount it will self propagate.

From memory, white vinegar will start the job of cleaning the green stuff up. Electrical cleaner is usually isopropyl which is great for dirt and gum and it dries quickly, but it won't do too much for corrosion.

[Grappler]

Mine are blue wires with various stripes as per the diagram

Has yours had an upgrade? Maybe there is a relay added in that has failed?

From your pics the wiring didnt look standard. Nothing worse than diagnosing non standard electrics in a vehicle

[Robmacca]

The auto side of the interior lights is driven by the security controller. If my experience is anything to go by, the previous owner has probably blown this output on the security system and hence no more auto interior lights.

My solution was to run a relay driven off the doors input (all 5 doors go to the one input) to the security system, this relay then drives the auto function of the interior lights.

Cheers Glen
.

Well, I had a look at the interior light today and thank the Lord, found out that the previous fella didn't slide the plug on properly and only one connection was making a connection - all good. Then I looked at the rear cargo light as it wasn't working either - hoping the same thing and to my surprise it was, again the plug wasn't installed properly.... Then it happen !!! As I was putting it all back together I made an error and shorted the positive and negative and popped the fuse. While the fuse was blown I put it all back together then looked for the fuse. Found it, replaced it, tested the lights - all good.... Then I started it and took it for a drive..... PROBLEMS

Immediately upon starting it up, something felt different. The 12v battery light remained "ON" on the dash and the accelerator felt different. The 12v battery light went out & I took it for a drive and it felt VERY different from its normal self. Being remapped it gets up and goes but this drove like it wasn't remapped at all, and the accelerator was behaving differently. After about a 20km drive nothing had changed so I stopped and checked the ScanGaugeII for Faults and found 2 fault codes listed: U0001 and U0155.

I have no idea whether these codes were pre-existing or not as I've never checked the SGII for faults. I cleared the faults, restarted the engine and fantastic - it appeared to be back to its normal self, driving wise and the response was back as well....

So, being new to these PUMAS, has anyone else ever popped an Interior light fuse before and experienced anything like I mentioned above?

[Robmacca]

From your pics the wiring didnt look standard. Nothing worse than diagnosing non standard electrics in a vehicle


I ended up finding the original Light plugs and they indeed did match up with the manual in regards to colour codes....

[DazzaTD5]

From your pics the wiring didnt look standard. Nothing worse than diagnosing non standard electrics in a vehicle

X2 bloody impossible.
and typical of (dare I say) a auto sparky place to fix the problem but NOT the cause. (unfortunately this is sometimes customer driven, as in they dont want to pay the extra time to find out why.)