I think I just saw the new defender

[barney]

About 15 minutes ago, I was sitting in traffic near the military rd off ramp at Neutral bay. Stopped at the off ramp was a black vehicle with a land rover badge, similar head lights to the current Rangies, slightly reclined grille, a tall-ish wagon style body with a little spoiler at the back of the roof.
Looked a little too similar to the DC100 for my liking, but definitely wasn't anything that Land rover has for sale at the moment.
I am hoping my dash cam got it but I need to review the video. It was off to the right hand side, so I am not hopeful.

[rar110]

That footage would be worth a bit to some automotive media outfit.

[goingbush]

Nah, not in Neutral Bay, If they were testing it in Double Bay or Vaucluse yep that would probably be right .

[disco gazza]

You forgot about the snobs in Mosman goingbush….[bigwhistle]
Also the people that have a harbour view aren't short of a $$$$$ or 2 on the north side.

cheers

[Zeros]

Intriguing. Was it camouflaged at all? How many doors? Was it boxy? Or was it similar to a D5?

[rick130]

You forgot about the snobs in Mosman goingbush….[bigwhistle]
Also the people that have a harbour view aren't short of a $$$$$ or 2 on the north side.

cheersBalmoral yes, Neutral Bay is far too middle class....

[emoji23]

[donh54]

I think I saw Elvis get out of one at the 7-11 [bigwhistle]

[101RRS]

I did see a Landrover in Sydney as well on Friday afternoon that was a bit odd - only saw it from the rear and initially thought it was a current model Range Rover Sport but the rear lights were all different - not a Disco Sport - different lights and definitely not that ugly Disco 5 - not a Velar.

Body was similar to a RRS/Disco Sport but completely different rear end and lights. It was twilight so colour was hard to see but looked dark green or grey.

[Tins]

Nah, not in Neutral Bay, If they were testing it in Double Bay or Vaucluse yep that would probably be right .

Dunno about that.I used to live in Cremorne. I couldn't afford a letterbox there now. Cremorne is two minutes from Mosman and Neutral bay.

[Tins]

I think I saw Elvis get out of one at the 7-11 [bigwhistle]

When were you in Des Moines?

[cjc_td5]

Current intel is that it has round headlights and possibly some similarity to an FJ Cruiser at the front.

[manic]

Come on now, any one see bigfoot, a UFO or flying pigs over the weekend?

No way would LR ship one to Auz, stick a badge on it and drive it around to be seen pre release.

I tell you what, if they dont release pictures of it in the near future, we could all go mad!

[loanrangie]

Have to agree, release supposedly 2020 so not likely to see a pre production car here.

[Bigbjorn]

When were you in Des Moines?

You are both wrong. He lives in the Tandarra Caravan Park at Beenleigh. Age Pensioner.

[Tins]

You are both wrong. He lives in the Tandarra Caravan Park at Beenleigh. Age Pensioner.

Doing better than me then.

[Tins]

we could all go mad!

I have it on good authority from an ( alleged ) Sydney member that I am already mad. Who cares? Not me.

[Tins]

Age Pensioner.

Don't believe it. My mum is 100, and she can't afford to live there... And the walk is too hard...

[rar110]

Could be. Barney knows his land rovers.

It would be an interesting if JLR’s marketing plan was to start releasing advanced mules across the globe simultaneously to start the free publicity machine.

[Zeros]

Ha! A mutant Range Rover with round green eyes? 👀 shiney with a funny tail? Boxy, but curvy. Visible but invisible? Yup that’s it!

[goingbush]

????

http://goingbush.com/images/2020defender.jpg

[JDNSW]

Of course it could be a new model, but not a Defender.

[barney]

pretty vlose to the one they drew in the sand for the 70th

[weeds]

Video footage??

[barney]

the photo shows the front of it in the far right of the photo
143437

[goingbush]

I wonder if it was the new Bronco ??

New Ford Bronco - 2020 Ford Bronco Details, News, Photos, and More (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a31079/new-ford-bronco-ranger-details/)

[barney]

I could see the Land Rover badge on the rhs of the grille.

[rick130]

Jaguar used to use Australia for testing.

Some of you will be old enough to remember the kerfuffle in the car mags when the first new Jag to replace the venerable XJ6/12 was being gossiped about, along with a few grainy spy shots.

One night I was broken down on My Tomah awaiting rescue when I think it was two undisguised XJ40's went flying past at some ungodly hour of the morning.

This was months before the official release and decent photos were seen.

Of course back then Joe Public wasn't playing paparazzo with a mobile phone either.

[grey_ghost]

It’s like the loch ness monster! Wish the photo was clearer. I have spotted a few cars in camouflage, but I never once had a camera ready! [emoji26]

[Wicks89]

Looks like a late model UAZ Patriot.

Saw heaps of them.in Russia, they look the part - solid axles, square body. But I think they are petrol.

[Wicks89]

UAZ Patriot CNG - methane goes places | gazeo.com (https://gazeo.com/automotive/vehicles/UAZ-Patriot-CNG-methane-goes-places,article,9523.html)

[ozscott]

Exciting. Now all we do is wait a couple of years to iron out the bugs and giddy up...so 2023 is probably a good purchase year. Means I might need to do a diff or 2 in the D2 by then... front at 350,000 and rear at say 400,000klm. Oh well..pretty cheap motoring. Cheers

[rar110]

A very basic edit of Barney’s image.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180820/b73f126254610ef29fa1c37d94e46cc2.jpg

Similar but different to current JLR lineup.

[ozscott]

Mate I cant tell what it looks like...a bug? I'm sure it will look fine but that shot requires a lot of imagination! If you enlarge it looks a bit like a sad face. A psychiatrist would have a ball asking people what they see in this...Cheers

[rar110]

The bonnet seems to not cover the top of the guards, rather than the clam shell bonnet.

[goingbush]

Look like a PT Cruiser to me

https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1013/1460601501_dd296753d2_b.jpg

[donh54]

Look like a PT Cruiser to me



Even as an old Mopar tragic, I'd have to say the last thing Rover needs, is to take advice from Chrysler! :wallbash::Thump:

[Zeros]

Reckon it looks like a Holden Captiva. I saw one today. - see pic.
Maybe some wannabe has put a Land Rover badge on the front?

[Phoenix]

It will be interesting to see what shows up as time goes on.

[Summiitt]

I spoke to the dealer in Canberra and he said he has seen the new defender in the flesh and it’s completely different, but you know it’s a Land Rover. He said it is definitely heavy duty, but the interior is far more like a hilux/ranger, but size wise it’s bigger..
8-12 months he believes before an Aus release.

[Dop]

I think I saw Elvis get out of one at the 7-11 [bigwhistle]
Yeah I saw Him too, the guy who served him looked a lot like Christopher Skase!

[goingbush]

<snip> but you know it’s a Land Rover.

You know its a LandRover or you know its a Defender , Huge difference there , If it got the Styling cues of the rest of the current LandRover range I'm out . If you know its a Defender Ive got cash waiting, but only the 100% Electric model, Not the slightest bit interested in Ingenium !!

[Summiitt]

I told him the same thing..cash waiting provided it was a Landcruiser or better rival, no way I would go for the first batch of electric..unfortunately I don't think I can wait..Ive got a patrol tray top that Im sick of spending money on and a DMax thats due for replacement..The 130 I went in to look at is a 2015 with 60k on it for $65k..nice ride, but Im more tempted to go for a second hand cruiser tray top for early to mid $40k..

[djam1]

I told him the same thing..cash waiting provided it was a Landcruiser or better rival, no way I would go for the first batch of electric..unfortunately I don't think I can wait..Ive got a patrol tray top that Im sick of spending money on and a DMax thats due for replacement..The 130 I went in to look at is a 2015 with 60k on it for $65k..nice ride, but Im more tempted to go for a second hand cruiser tray top for early to mid $40k..

While I hope you don't have to buy a Land Cruiser I bet you do it would be some sort of miracle for them to get it right for a working vehicle.
The latest offerings have been comical

[donh54]

Anyone done some basic sleuthing? Go to where you thought you saw it, and look at the ground. Oil spots? High probability it was a Deefer [bigrolf]

[Zeros]

Anyone done some basic sleuthing? Go to where you thought you saw it, and look at the ground. Oil spots? High probability it was a Deefer [bigrolf]

...or perhaps if there are no oils spots at all, the new Deefer is not a real Deefer! [bigrolf]

[discorevy]

Would come as a shock to find the electric model leaking[tonguewink]

[mox]

Would come as a shock to find the electric model leaking[tonguewink]
An electric model would probably be less prone to leaking oil but more likely to leak Lucas wiring harness smoke.

[goingbush]

Would come as a shock to find the electric model leaking[tonguewink]


Seem to still be leaking to me [bigwhistle]


https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39952072_1843417862406662_3042931741636427776_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=b1bf0b17a64a22bb359d05cf4a46a61e&oe=5BF460D8

[discorevy]

Would come as a shock to find the electric model leaking[tonguewink]

Was more a poor attempt at a dad type joke .......as in leaking volts .... come as a shock......never mind.[bighmmm]

[ozscott]

Pure electric for a 4wd seems counterintuitive. I could see a hybrid being very useful though. Cheers

[JDNSW]

There are excellent reasons for a pure electric 4wd, the only counter arguments are battery capacity and cost.

Neither are fundamental issues, although it may be decades before they cease to be issues. Certainly, there is a fundamental issue with long distance touring away from recharging facilities, but this only involves a tiny fraction of 4wds, and it is possible that eventually additional battery capacity may be as easy as a couple of jerricans!

At the current state of development, though, cost and range remain major issues for electric 4wds, but goingbush's project shows that it is getting to be within cooee of practicality.

[ozscott]

When the new wave of batteries come in that recharge within a fraction of the time of the current crop and where you could carry a small petrol powered alternator and solar panels I would be in. For now the tech just isnt tbere for a big country like Aus without charging facilities out west, up north or just about anywhere and with the tyranny of distance. For now it's just not a feasible option for those that use their 4wd for what it's designed for. Cheers

[goingbush]

<snip> use their 4wd for what it's designed for. Cheers


And there you have it .

I say they are rarely used for what they were designed for . Mine was designed to be pushed out of the back of a C130 or slung under a helicopter but Ive never done that with it .

80% of owners of NEW 4x4's never take them off bitumen , and most of those only ever do commutes / trips to shops / school / soccer etc .

Just driving an Electric 4x4 around for the last 6 months has convinced me I'll never buy another ICE car again.

And in a 4x4 , Electric is a perfect match, Can run on any angle - even upside down , can run underwater , can run in bushfire smoke - (don't need oxygen to breathe ). so many advantages but from a pure 4x4 viewpoint 100% torque from zero RPM is the big winner . Not even touching on efficiency or emissions , zero maintenance aspect of it.

Sure Range Anxiety is real but no more so than in your in a petrol car running low on petrol .

For those that mostly do long distance remote touring in your 4x4 , sure EV are not there yet. but wont be long. Hybrid are not the answer but think "turbine range extender " .

[p38arover]

My Gawd, two oldies come out if the woodwork for this thread - Barney and Phoenix. I haven't seen their usernames pop up in years! Welcome back Matt and Richard! [bigsmile]

[ozscott]

And there you have it .

I say they are rarely used for what they were designed for . Mine was designed to be pushed out of the back of a C130 or slung under a helicopter but Ive never done that with it .

80% of owners of NEW 4x4's never take them off bitumen , and most of those only ever do commutes / trips to shops / school / soccer etc .

Just driving an Electric 4x4 around for the last 6 months has convinced me I'll never buy another ICE car again.

And in a 4x4 , Electric is a perfect match, Can run on any angle - even upside down , can run underwater , can run in bushfire smoke - (don't need oxygen to breathe ). so many advantages but from a pure 4x4 viewpoint 100% torque from zero RPM is the big winner . Not even touching on efficiency or emissions , zero maintenance aspect of it.

Sure Range Anxiety is real but no more so than in your in a petrol car running low on petrol .

For those that mostly do long distance remote touring in your 4x4 , sure EV are not there yet. but wont be long. Hybrid are not the answer but think "turbine range extender " .Yep for sure but most people on this site do go Bush and touring. I'm in once the battery tech is much better than what it is now...probably 5 to 10 years tops. Cheers

[gromit]

And there you have it .

I say they are rarely used for what they were designed for . Mine was designed to be pushed out of the back of a C130 or slung under a helicopter but Ive never done that with it .
But you weren't the army buyer who specified this ability when new, you got it secondhand !

80% of owners of NEW 4x4's never take them off bitumen , and most of those only ever do commutes / trips to shops / school / soccer etc .
When the vehicles are new you're possibly right, the figure may be even higher.
When an EV is older it's value will possibly plummet because of the cost of replacing the batteries.
In the future where will we get an older 4WD that we can take bush at a reasonable price without having to buy a new battery pack ?

Just driving an Electric 4x4 around for the last 6 months has convinced me I'll never buy another ICE car again.
Depends, of course, on your driving needs, I do several hundred Km most working days, carry equipment and at the weekend have the wife & 4 kids in the vehicle.

And in a 4x4 , Electric is a perfect match, Can run on any angle - even upside down , can run underwater , can run in bushfire smoke - (don't need oxygen to breathe ). so many advantages but from a pure 4x4 viewpoint 100% torque from zero RPM is the big winner . Not even touching on efficiency or emissions , zero maintenance aspect of it.
I agree with most of these points but worry about the amount of electronics involved. Not sure about 'zero' maintenance though.....

Sure Range Anxiety is real but no more so than in your in a petrol car running low on petrol .
But simple to carry jerry cans of fuel when on long trips & remove for the daily drive. Filling up takes minutes rather than hours.

For those that mostly do long distance remote touring in your 4x4 , sure EV are not there yet. but wont be long. Hybrid are not the answer but think "turbine range extender " .

For a lot of urban drivers the EV is definitely the future.

Green as far as emissions go but I'm still uncertain that overall they are really 'green'. Like most modern appliances they are not designed (at the moment) to be repaired so crash it and throw it away. Tesla seem to have issues in the US with parts support but probably because their sales are growing so fast.
Yes all the parts might be recyclable and the car has been a consumable for years but I can see the useful life actually getting shorter.

The more concerning aspect will be all the electronics to run these vehicles, how reliable will these be in a 4WD ?
As it gets older it will need the battery pack replacing how many years before "I'm sorry sir/madam that vehicle is no longer supported".
There will be the 'aftermarket', battery costs will reduce and battery technology will change. When they come up with a standard for the battery packs so that they fit all makes & model it will be a step forward (but I really can't see this happening).
The alternative could leasing batteries on a swap & go basis.

I've never been an early adopter so will sit back and watch from the sidelines.

When the automobile first came on the scene you went to a shop and purchased petrol in tins. In 20 years time we'll be doing the same as the use of the ICE dwindles to a few enthusiasts living in the past (like those running early Land Rover at the moment)


Colin
.

[goingbush]

For a lot of urban drivers the EV is definitely the future.

Green as far as emissions go but I'm still uncertain that overall they are really 'green'. Like most modern appliances they are not designed (at the moment) to be repaired so crash it and throw it away. Tesla seem to have issues in the US with parts support but probably because their sales are growing so fast.
Yes all the parts might be recyclable and the car has been a consumable for years but I can see the useful life actually getting shorter.

The more concerning aspect will be all the electronics to run these vehicles, how reliable will these be in a 4WD ?
As it gets older it will need the battery pack replacing how many years before "I'm sorry sir/madam that vehicle is no longer supported".
There will be the 'aftermarket', battery costs will reduce and battery technology will change. When they come up with a standard for the battery packs so that they fit all makes & model it will be a step forward (but I really can't see this happening).
The alternative could leasing batteries on a swap & go basis.

I've never been an early adopter so will sit back and watch from the sidelines.

When the automobile first came on the scene you went to a shop and purchased petrol in tins. In 20 years time we'll be doing the same as the use of the ICE dwindles to a few enthusiasts living in the past (like those running early Land Rover at the moment)


Colin
.Yep. Cant argue with that Colin. The way technology is now were forced to buy a new phone or computer every few years because they just stop working as new software updates creep in. Built in obsolescence started 40 years ago when Victa stsrted making lawnmower pistons from lead [emoji12].

Can't see EV being any different. That said the same goes for the current crop of ICE 4x4 , how long is a D5 going to last without dealer support . Packed so full of electronic equipment its crazy.

Apart from the controller which is milspec reliable EV dont really need anything else. Oh yeah . the throttle pot. .... Point in case the Chinese and Indian consumer EV'S as basic as you can get.

[bee utey]

The more concerning aspect will be all the electronics to run these vehicles, how reliable will these be in a 4WD ?

I find this mildly hilarious since the manufacturer featured on this forum has been selling exclusively electronic controlled vehicles since 1994 (P38) and 1998 (TD5) and the world hasn't come to an end. By that reckoning a 300TDi powered D1 or Deafener must shortly be worth millions. [bigsmile1]

[gromit]

I find this mildly hilarious since the manufacturer featured on this forum has been selling exclusively electronic controlled vehicles since 1994 (P38) and 1998 (TD5) and the world hasn't come to an end. By that reckoning a 300TDi powered D1 or Deafener must shortly be worth millions. [bigsmile1]

And the P38 is known for it's electrical reliability........

Colin

[bee utey]

And the P38 is known for it's electrical reliability........

Colin

Exactly. Just because there are occasional smoke clouds issuing from fuse boxes and dash boards going crazy doesn't mean that people stop loving and using them. Fixing electrical faults is no more difficult than fixing mechanical faults, just needs a different toolbox. I spent a fair bit of time last week in the bowels of someone's elderly P38 doing elec and mech works and despite it not ending up perfect it still gets a smile when you boot it.

[101 Ron]

Playing with Electric forklifts for a living I wish to point out a few things.
The electronics...…..ie speed controllers never give any trouble and AC motors these days are so reliable that I have yet needed to replace one.
Batteries are the things that wear out and second hand value is not of the vehicle, but of the amount of battery life left.
They are not green and more expensive to produce due to the energy it takes to produce them and the copper and other expensive metals used in manufacture without allowing where the recharging energy comes from.
It takes energy to recycle them. ( remember the emissions in smelting and refining copper ect)
Speed controller( throttle petal ) is these days hall effect type units and not the old fashion pots and therefore little to wear out.
The electronics used in the current crop of electric vehicles has been around for years in forklifts.
( ie …...transistor and FET speed controllers have been around since the early 1990s in forklifts and AC motors shortly after that.
The future will have a lot of electric vehicles in it due to
1/ the state of lithium battery development
2/ emissions is making IC engine less reliable and more expensive to produce.
Just one other thing ……….any true life span of a electric vehicle will be decided by the battery and if the manufacturer places built in soft ware or design faults to reduce life...…..the electronic parts are reliable if needed to be.
Quality of the insulation and placement of the wiring also determines life of a unit.

[gromit]

Exactly. Just because there are occasional smoke clouds issuing from fuse boxes and dash boards going crazy doesn't mean that people stop loving and using them. Fixing electrical faults is no more difficult than fixing mechanical faults, just needs a different toolbox. I spent a fair bit of time last week in the bowels of someone's elderly P38 doing elec and mech works and despite it not ending up perfect it still gets a smile when you boot it.

So as long as they take someone like yourself whenever they go four wheel driving they should be OK ?

My daily and the wife's (not Land Rover) have had spurious electrical problems.
Launch of the car delayed due to Body Control Module problems.
Analogue instruments stopped working, dealer hadn't heard of this before, fortunately a digital display showed speed & distance to empty. Removed instrument panel did some research and found the panel is coded to the car so if you try another it needs to be coded first ($$$'s). Left it and it came good a couple of weeks later !
Display on mine switched off while driving and came up with the message "Updating System". Fortunately the car kept going then the display came back.
Display died on the wife's, $1,000's to replace. Fortunately disconnecting the battery overnight fixed it.
Every service there is a software 'upgrade'.

Can't wait for even more electronics to control the electric motors, battery usage etc. As long as they don't contract Lucas for the electronics on their EV's it might be OK.


Colin

[bee utey]

So as long as they take someone like yourself whenever they go four wheel driving they should be OK ?

???

Customer drove it here, drove it away a week later. None of the little gremlins actually stopped the vehicle.

[rick130]

Can't wait for even more electronics to control the electric motors, battery usage etc. As long as they don't contract Lucas for the electronics on their EV's it might be OK.


Colin


The funny thing is that other than the oil capillarying down the harness, the ECU on the TD5 was/is bloody robust.
And guess who designed and built it!

[JDNSW]

About 90% of the issues with Lucas electrics are connections - so what's different?

[irondoc]

Any other sightings around Sydney?

I must admit, if I saw what I thought was the new Defender, I would turn around and chase it.....

Cheers
Lucas

[goingbush]

<snip>

Can't wait for even more electronics to control the electric motors, battery usage etc. As long as they don't contract Lucas for the electronics on their EV's it might be OK.


Colin


Funny how millions of people get into elevators in hi-rise buildings every day without batting an eyelid.

All dependant on Electric Motors , electronics and wiring looms just itching to let the smoke out .

The power to weight ratio, torque, acceleration, braking and reliability is of electric motors and electric control circuitry is magnitudes better than anything with an internal combustion engine.

[cripesamighty]

I lost it in a computer crash, but I used to have I photo I took of an elevator plate in a Cairo hotel, which gave the manufacturer (Otis?) and date of build which was from the late 1890’s. Although rickety, the lift seemed to work ok!

[Phoenix]

My Gawd, two oldies come out if the woodwork for this thread - Barney and Phoenix. I haven't seen their usernames pop up in years! Welcome back Matt and Richard! [bigsmile]

He he he, it has been a while!

Personally I think an all electric defender with a decent range would be an absolute winner!!

[barney]

Ha. Hey Ron! I've been too busy with work, the band and maintaining 2 Defenders along with not having a desktop PC anymore, it's a bit of a pain just using the phone. So yeah, hiding in woodwork watching and listening.

[DiscoMick]

And there you have it .

I say they are rarely used for what they were designed for . Mine was designed to be pushed out of the back of a C130 or slung under a helicopter but Ive never done that with it .

80% of owners of NEW 4x4's never take them off bitumen , and most of those only ever do commutes / trips to shops / school / soccer etc .

Just driving an Electric 4x4 around for the last 6 months has convinced me I'll never buy another ICE car again.

And in a 4x4 , Electric is a perfect match, Can run on any angle - even upside down , can run underwater , can run in bushfire smoke - (don't need oxygen to breathe ). so many advantages but from a pure 4x4 viewpoint 100% torque from zero RPM is the big winner . Not even touching on efficiency or emissions , zero maintenance aspect of it.

Sure Range Anxiety is real but no more so than in your in a petrol car running low on petrol .

For those that mostly do long distance remote touring in your 4x4 , sure EV are not there yet. but wont be long. Hybrid are not the answer but think "turbine range extender " .All that is needed is for Oz to copy the UK and have a law requiring servos to offer charging points and that will overcome much of the problem. It isn't essential to have 15amp chargers either - it just takes longer. Fast chargers and cheaper lithium batteries are on their way.

[Mules]

New 2020 Land Rover Defender - pictures | 1 | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/104826/new-2020-land-rover-defender-pictures?amp)

[Zeros]

It’s a D4 <> RRS <> G Wagen hybrid! Some will be pleased. Others I expect not.

Looks like load space will be limited and it appears to be very passenger car oriented, at least in that guise.

[carpdvl]

Independent all round

Should be interesting to see the final shape with all that plastic and Camo off it

I'm happy with my 110!

[goingbush]

Well if thats the Defender I'm out .

Bye Bye JLR .

I'll wait for the Electric Jeep DC Ute or Bollinger , whatever hits the Aust market first.

[weeds]

Well if thats the Defender I'm out .

Bye Bye JLR .

I'll wait for the Electric Jeep DC Ute or Bollinger , whatever hits the Aust market first.

I think it’s a little early to make a call......

[tc_s1]

I think it’s a little early to make a call......Agreed.

[goingbush]

I think it’s a little early to make a call......

Regardless of front / rear the body contour shape on the sides is hideous . It looks like Discovery. I was hoping for flat sides. The Cafe shop lines do nothing for me.

[Zeros]

I think it’s a little early to make a call......

Agreed. Let’s see what the ‘ute’ version looks like first. 130?

[tc_s1]

Regardless of front / rear the body contour shape on the sides is hideous . It looks like Discovery. I was hoping for flat sides. The Cafe shop lines do nothing for me.They look flat, kind of, but at an angle ???

[donh54]

Of course, they don't want to give away any clues to the motoring paparazzi, so what's with the "Best 4x4 x Far" stickers? Looks to me like a panel-beaten D4, and I sure hope they have a better arse end planned for the final release! That one looks like the North end of a South-bound Tramping Duck!

As a work/bush vehicle, the flared guards seem to me to be a complete waste. Easy to damage, expensive to fix. If you kept the flat sides of the old Deefer, and extended the whole body out to the width of those flares, just think how much extra internal space you would gain! And the Yanks would love the "upsize" as well!

[tc_s1]

Of course, they don't want to give away any clues to the motoring paparazzi, so what's with the "Best 4x4 x Far" stickers? Looks to me like a panel-beaten D4, and I sure hope they have a better arse end planned for the final release! That one looks like the North end of a South-bound Tramping Duck!

As a work/bush vehicle, the flared guards seem to me to be a complete waste. Easy to damage, expensive to fix. If you kept the flat sides of the old Deefer, and extended the whole body out to the width of those flares, just think how much extra internal space you would gain! And the Yanks would love the "upsize" as well!Those flares could perhaps just be added, albeit 3 dimensional, camoflage as well perhaps? Hard to tell under all that wrap.

[manic]

The whole bonnet is a cover up, the panels stuck onto the side doors have raised the side of the bodywork to meet it and make it less obvious. With all those covers removed you might find larger side windows, and some kind of wing top area and v shaped bonnet.

The roof is a cover up, it most likely slopes up from the windscreen.

The rear door is a similar shape to current door and rear quater panels slope inwards towards the roof. So backend might end up looking ok.

Front end is completly covered over, behind the slits for the headlights you can see some round lights.

Ive never seen a mule from JLR so heavily disguised with fake panels.

Underneath all that crap, there might be a defender that looks quite distinct from the rest of the fleet.

[goingbush]

I just hope JLR are monitoring this, & I think they will be.

Whatever it is they can't change it now, it takes about 7 years to design & tool up for a new model !

no matter the amount of cladding it just reeks D3 - D4 to me , but I suspect the roof is stepped like the D1-D2
more retro disco than retro defer IMO , and I've never been partial to any model Discovery. (esp D5 yuck)

[Ranga]

The wiper blades are a deal breaker for me [bigrolf]

[grey_ghost]

Wouldn't it be funny if it was actually a Jeep being test driven - and they put the sticker on the door "Best 4x4 by far" - as further camo... [thumbsupbig][bigrolf][tonguewink][wink11]

[Ferret]

The wiper blades are a deal breaker for me [bigrolf]

Was thinking the same thing myself.

Whatever it turns out to be I hope they equip with an oil dipstick.[biggrin]

[weeds]

And clear view are already making mirrors....it appears the mirror stick out a bit more the a disco

[irondoc]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. This looks like the vehicle everyone hoped for - still square, more like the D3/4 rather than the others in the Land Rover stable, and certainly not like the D5. Love it or hate it, the D4 was an awesome vehicle, and this seems to retain some Defender shape and principles while modernising it like a D4. My D4 has put so many vehicles to shame in offroading situations, while still being comfortable on-road.

The only thing I worry about my D4 is some electric gremlin occurring in the bush. Any new Defender was going to be awesome offroad and have some electrickery, that was a given, it was just the shape/style and price that we didn't know about. Now we can see the shape may just be OK, so the major unknown is the price.....

Cheers
Lucas

[scarry]

That rear end seems hideous,must have been designed by the same clown that designed the D5 rear end[bigsad]

Where has the great tailgate set up gone?

The black and white paint job could be the deal breaker for me[biggrin]

[ozy013]

Wouldn't it be funny if it was actually a Jeep being test driven - and they put the sticker on the door "Best 4x4 by far" - as further camo... [thumbsupbig][bigrolf][tonguewink][wink11]

I think this could be close to the mark. Seriously, because I've never seen a manufacturer use such a heavily camouflaged mule before, then slap their own logo on the side. I've seen plenty of mules from manufacturers up close, as my job is new vehicle transport. We move for Landrover, BMW, Mercedes, Holden, and many more.......when the mules come into our yards, they arrive in enclosed trailers, then they go straight under cover......they are then moved back out in enclosed trailers...none of the mules I've seen have had any badging or logos on at all.


Personally i reckon it's either Landrover playing games....or another manufacturer taking advantage of all the speculation.

[1nando]

So far I'm still interested, however after owning my y62 and having a big fat "0" faults or issues in 22,500kms it will have to be good to get me back! Ah good old peace of mind..no replacment!

Looks small, independent suspension (bound to be air; not a fan of air prefer hydraulic), clearance looks ok, tyres we'll see what it comes out with, engine choice and drivetrain strength.

If those boxes are ticked I might come back if not.....probably bother as I'm probably saving myself a headache[emoji848]

[tc_s1]

Nothing too new really, but the PR engine has spat something out today - New Land Rover Defender To Add Tech, New Design (https://www.motor1.com/news/273196/new-defender-tech-new-design/)

[Zeros]

Nothing too new really, but the PR engine has spat something out today - New Land Rover Defender To Add Tech, New Design (https://www.motor1.com/news/273196/new-defender-tech-new-design/)

More Zilch.

[scarry]

More Zilch.

And incorrect info,Discovery is now the lowest selling vehicle they produce.

[weeds]

An incorrect info,Discovery is now the lowest selling vehicle they produce.

Maybe they will drop the discovery when the all new Land Rover ‘defender’ is released

[Zeros]

Maybe they will drop the discovery when the all new Land Rover ‘defender’ is released

They may have to if the new Defender is essentially a Disco4. ...but what will Defender buyers buy?

[scarry]

They may have to if the new Defender is essentially a Disco4. ...but what will Defender buyers buy?

Umm,70 series[tonguewink]

Like they do all over the world,where they need a dedicated, reliable, off road vehicle.

Or if they have the cash,a G wagon.

or a second hand Deefer,or perentie.

Unimog,iveco,Fuso,the list goes on

See,there's heaps to choose from[biggrin]

[ozscott]

Or one of these (I would prefer to build one up myself but in terms of off the shelf).

Discovery Series 2 1999 - 2004 Extreme (http://www.stormseries.com.au/contents/en-us/d14_Discovery_1999_-_2004.html)

Cheers

[Zeros]

Umm,70 series[tonguewink]

Like they do all over the world,where they need a dedicated, reliable, off road vehicle.

Or if they have the cash,a G wagon.

or a second hand Deefer,or perentie.

Unimog,iveco,Fuso,the list goes on

See,there's heaps to choose from[biggrin]

Oh Scarry 😁 We can choose any of those vehicles now. ...But we don’t. (Except the second hand Defender / Perentie option).

[DazzaTD5]

Umm,70 series[tonguewink]



unfortunately Toyota are also dropping the 70 series, its gone the same way as the old Defender.

[Vern]

unfortunately Toyota are also dropping the 70 series, its gone the same way as the old Defender.Are they?? I did hear they are dropping the 1vd engine though.

[Zeros]

unfortunately Toyota are also dropping the 70 series, its gone the same way as the old Defender.

I’d heard that too, but is it definitive? Date?
There’s been no talk of a replacement?

[rick130]

Before they put air bags in it they were going to drop it, then spent the $ engineering the bags, so who knows?

I'm still surprised Nissan dropped the Patrol ute, we were the biggest Patrol ute market for them, and second only to the middle east in SW sales at one point.
Sales must have crashed in the last few years.

[Vern]

Before they put air bags in it they were going to drop it, then spent the $ engineering the bags, so who knows?

I'm still surprised Nissan dropped the Patrol ute, we were the biggest Patrol ute market for them, and second only to the middle east in SW sales at one point.
Sales must have crashed in the last few years.It's probably because they dropped the diesels, now a y62 with the 5.6 engine in a ute configuration would sell like hot cakes

[DazzaTD5]

I’d heard that too, but is it definitive? Date?
There’s been no talk of a replacement?

No it seems to change on the fly likely due to continuing good sales.
But Toyota do say things like side curtain airbags and tracking issues as not being engineering priorities.
Even the updates of ABS, airbags, stability control is only in the single cab.
So eventually as Australia moves to EURO 5 / 6 compliance, its likely to be dropped in Australia.

Its the last still in production of realistic work utes and in my mind would have been a better choice for the ADF, other Gov services.
Which just plays into the hands on small 4x4 truck makers like Isuzu, Iveco, Hino. I believe the new Hino 4x4 is more refined and comes with single rear wheels instead of the typical duel wheels

[scarry]

unfortunately Toyota are also dropping the 70 series, its gone the same way as the old Defender.

Yes,they said that 5 yrs ago.......

Emission laws are only engine changes,but what may put an end to it in Aus are safety regs.

As i have said previously on this site,it is the vehicle of choice in East Africa,still bought new with the non turbo 6 cyl engine.

Many of the Safari companies have thousands of them.

So i doubt it will be gone completely any time soon,unlike the old Defender.

[scarry]

No it seems to change on the fly likely due to continuing good sales.
But Toyota do say things like side curtain airbags and tracking issues as not being engineering priorities.
Even the updates of ABS, airbags, stability control is only in the single cab.
So eventually as Australia moves to EURO 5 / 6 compliance, its likely to be dropped in Australia.

Its the last still in production of realistic work utes and in my mind would have been a better choice for the ADF, other Gov services.
Which just plays into the hands on small 4x4 truck makers like Isuzu, Iveco, Hino. I believe the new Hino 4x4 is more refined and comes with single rear wheels instead of the typical duel wheels

I think it is Euro5 compliant?

In Aus,a date for Euro6 has not been set,due to issues with fuel quality.

[DiscoMick]

I read the move to higher fuel standards has been delayed.

[scarry]

I read the move to higher fuel standards has been delayed.

I did as well,which delays Euro 6 for Aus.

Although many vehicles are already Euro 6 compliant,but don't have to be.

Probably mainly European.

The Japanese,as they do,will probably just sit back,and wait to see what happens.

[Don 130]

. t.

In fact it was Henry Ford who invented planned obsolescence when he offered to give everyone a Model T as long as they would come back to him for their parts, but even by then, the cat was out of the bag and the manufacturers are now trying to get it back in. Mobs like iFixit: The Free Repair Manual (https://www.ifixit.com) are trying to go the opposite way and in Europe and elsewhere there are now laws that force manufacturers to allow their products to be repaired by others.

Don.

[Ranga]

It's probably because they dropped the diesels, now a y62 with the 5.6 engine in a ute configuration would sell like hot cakes

Especially a dual-cab! With the amount of 200 series conversions being performed from new, there's obviously a market for those who want the size and features of the big wagons.

[1nando]

Especially a dual-cab! With the amount of 200 series conversions being performed from new, there's obviously a market for those who want the size and features of the big wagons.Not only that; once you experience the power of the 5.6, Diesel doesn't even cross your mind. It's effortless power and reliabilty with nothing hanging of it provide peace of mind like nothing I've owned before.
If land rover had released the v8 defender as a available engine in the puma instead of a limited edition run they would have sold like hot cakes.

[tc_s1]

Will the new Defender even make it out of production?
'Job losses likely' as JLR seeks PS2.5bn in savings - Birmingham Live (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/business/job-losses-likely-jlr-seeks-15354031)

And if not, does that mean those with means (like whomever bid and won the 6x6 Perentie crew cab recently) are left with this (yes, yes, you do detect a slight tone of envy)...?
Twisted Defender V8 2018 review | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/twisted-automotive/defender-v8-2018-first-drive-review)

[grey_ghost]

More pics today...

2020 Land Rover Defender short wheelbase prototype spotted - Autoblog (https://www.autoblog.com/2018/11/05/2020-land-rover-defender-short-wheelbase-spy-photos/)

[DiscoMick]

I like it.

[1nando]

Confirmed; the d4 was sidelined to become the new defender! [emoji6]

[weeds]

Confirmed; the d4 was sidelined to become the new defender! [emoji6]

Yep.....

[JDNSW]

I think this was pretty much inevitable - as I commented in a thread several years ago. And following history - the first coil sprung Landrovers owed a lot to the original Rangerover.

[Zeros]

Yes poor old Discovery became a Range Rover

D4 became a Defender

Defender became a Bollinger B1

[goingbush]

I never liked the D3 / D4 so I just know I'm going to hate the Pretender .

I hear its getting pushed back to 2026 or just more PR misdirection . JLR just do yourselves a favour & drop the Defender name . Let it rest in Peace.

New Land Rover Defender Sport Won’t Launch Until 2026? - CarBuzz (https://carbuzz.com/news/new-land-rover-defender-sport-won-t-launch-until-2026?fbclid=IwAR3HQvQGENQoLzV40PZbOhbLSNX30QqpUgn7 auV8hM6CzlBw5GyYrH2bccM)

[rar110]

I think vehicle in those pics has had additional panelling added to at least bonnet and roof to conceal the shape.

[weeds]

I never liked the D3 / D4 so I just know I'm going to hate the Pretender .

I hear its getting pushed back to 2026 or just more PR misdirection . JLR just do yourselves a favour & drop the Defender name . Let it rest in Peace.

New Land Rover Defender Sport Won’t Launch Until 2026? - CarBuzz (https://carbuzz.com/news/new-land-rover-defender-sport-won-t-launch-until-2026?fbclid=IwAR3HQvQGENQoLzV40PZbOhbLSNX30QqpUgn7 auV8hM6CzlBw5GyYrH2bccM)

Yep, I think they have lost the plot........no plan to keep customers interested, actually the gap between the old and the new is getting too large.

I’ve accepted they won’t release anything remotely like the defender of old days and or affordable and modifiable.

If bollinger actually get up and running on Aus I’m still not sure it’s the best option for me to drive around the world.

I’m guessing my TD5 defer will be my chariot

[Arapiles]

. Personally i reckon it's either Landrover playing games....or another manufacturer taking advantage of all the speculation.

The "spy" photos were set up by JLR, they were taken outside of the front gates of their factory and the driver is reportedly JLR's head of marketing .... so unlikely to be anyone but JLR.

[Arapiles]

I never liked the D3 / D4 so I just know I'm going to hate the Pretender .

I hear its getting pushed back to 2026 or just more PR misdirection . JLR just do yourselves a favour & drop the Defender name . Let it rest in Peace.

New Land Rover Defender Sport Won’t Launch Until 2026? - CarBuzz (https://carbuzz.com/news/new-land-rover-defender-sport-won-t-launch-until-2026?fbclid=IwAR3HQvQGENQoLzV40PZbOhbLSNX30QqpUgn7 auV8hM6CzlBw5GyYrH2bccM)

That's the Defender Sport being released in 2026, not the Defender itself.



Discovery > Discovery Sport
Range Rover > Range Rover Sport
Defender > Defender Sport

[Arapiles]

About 15 minutes ago, I was sitting in traffic near the military rd off ramp at Neutral bay. Stopped at the off ramp was a black vehicle with a land rover badge, similar head lights to the current Rangies, slightly reclined grille, a tall-ish wagon style body with a little spoiler at the back of the roof.
Looked a little too similar to the DC100 for my liking, but definitely wasn't anything that Land rover has for sale at the moment.
I am hoping my dash cam got it but I need to review the video. It was off to the right hand side, so I am not hopeful.

JLR have said that the pilot build cars will now be seen in public - maybe it was one of them?

[DiscoMick]

Think I might just get my 2009 Defender rust-proofed and forget about the new one.

[goingbush]

Woke up to see Ford have released low res pictures of the new 2020 Bronco ,
Now that looks way better than the LR Mule getting around in a clown wrap .

or have I seen these pictures before, or was that the DC100 ??


Note to JLR : you've lost your old Defender customer base already , no one cares anymore, just spill the beans.

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46134614_1951522341596213_6968745005112360960_o.jp g?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=935322a36a90973824ca8cba198b3213&oe=5C880867

[Zeros]

Woke up to see Ford have released low res pictures of the new 2020 Bronco ,
Now that looks way better than the LR Mule getting around in a clown wrap .

or have I seen these pictures before, or was that the DC100 ??


Note to JLR : you've lost your old Defender customer base already , no one cares anymore, just spill the beans.

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46134614_1951522341596213_6968745005112360960_o.jp g?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=935322a36a90973824ca8cba198b3213&oe=5C880867

Looks like a mini . I reckon Ford have lost their Bronco customers too.

[Zeros]

That's the Defender Sport being released in 2026, not the Defender itself.



Discovery > Discovery Sport
Range Rover > Range Rover Sport
Defender > Defender Sport



If the spy shots released already aren’t Defender Sport, it must be a midget! That bobtail two-door especially! What is it with all these these mini-me retro trucks!?

[tc_s1]

Guess none of them wants what we customers want. So much the better. I'll just keep rolling with my 110's thank you very much.

[goingbush]

Guess none of them wants what we customers want. So much the better. I'll just keep rolling with my 110's thank you very much.


They must be thinking 'build it & they will come" .

Holden learned the hard way with the ZB Commodore , and I don't see people rushing to buy the D5 .

[ozscott]

Looks like a mini . I reckon Ford have lost their Bronco customers too.That is a hideous looking vehicle. As someone else.said a mini on steroids.

Cheers

[DieselDan]

Woke up to see Ford have released low res pictures of the new 2020 Bronco ,
Now that looks way better than the LR Mule getting around in a clown wrap .

or have I seen these pictures before, or was that the DC100 ??


Note to JLR : you've lost your old Defender customer base already , no one cares anymore, just spill the beans.

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46134614_1951522341596213_6968745005112360960_o.jp g?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=935322a36a90973824ca8cba198b3213&oe=5C880867Well, not so much as Ford have released, more like someone from a dealer meeting in the US took a sneaky snap and then sold it on!
Those reports of the leaked photos have all been updated now to say that they do actually think the pic is showing a mini-Bronco.
The full size version is the black outline behind the orange car in the middle picture.

[Zeros]

Well, not so much as Ford have released, more like someone from a dealer meeting in the US took a sneaky snap and then sold it on!
Those reports of the leaked photos have all been updated now to say that they do actually think the pic is showing a mini-Bronco.
The full size version is the black outline behind the orange car in the middle picture.

Intriguing. I hadn't noticed the shadow. Bronco and Bronco Sport LOL.

[Greg4427]

Yes D5 sales are very poor when you look at the latest figures. I wouldn’t be surprised if the new Defender isn’t at all similar to the Ford to be honest. I just wish they’d got on with it though. While I’m hesitant to buy the first iteration of any new model I’d probably give it a good look at after they’ve ironed the first kinks out. The Velar still has some horror stories about it circulating, probably take until mid life update to get it better.

[Arapiles]

The full size version is the black outline behind the orange car in the middle picture.

The full-size version outline looks amazingly like the new Defender - complete with chamfered bonnet.

[Arapiles]

That's the Defender Sport being released in 2026, not the Defender itself.

I just noticed that the article says that the Defender Sport is being delayed because it will be a "pure EV" - which I take to mean an EV only, not PHEV or range extender or hybrid or ICE .....

And, given the timelines, I just realised that I won't be far off retirement by the time that they're released ....

[scarry]

Yes D5 sales are very poor when you look at the latest figures. I wouldn’t be surprised if the new Defender isn’t at all similar to the Ford to be honest. I just wish they’d got on with it though. While I’m hesitant to buy the first iteration of any new model I’d probably give it a good look at after they’ve ironed the first kinks out. The Velar still has some horror stories about it circulating, probably take until mid life update to get it better.

Discovery sales numbers are their lowest selling model,now Defender is gone.

It could go the same way.

Discovery,many years ago was the vehicle that saved the company.

[Zeros]

I just noticed that the article says that the Defender Sport is being delayed because it will be a "pure EV" - which I take to mean an EV only, not PHEV or range extender or hybrid or ICE .....

And, given the timelines, I just realised that I won't be far off retirement by the time that they're released ....

Looking at the diminutive size of the ’new’ Defender in the spy shots, the ‘Defender Sport’ will be a shopping basket. I drove the Disco Sport once, it felt like I was driving a Corolla.

[tc_s1]

Well, not so much as Ford have released, more like someone from a dealer meeting in the US took a sneaky snap and then sold it on!
Those reports of the leaked photos have all been updated now to say that they do actually think the pic is showing a mini-Bronco.
The full size version is the black outline behind the orange car in the middle picture.Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I was wondering how they got from the outline we've seen previously to the photos shared now of the sport, (which to me looks like a lovechild spawn from a Lada 4wd and 2000's FJ cruiser).

[grey_ghost]

I probably shouldn't put this up here... [bighmmm] But I noticed this article today:

2020 Jeep Gladiator revealed early - motoring.com.au (https://www.motoring.com.au/2020-jeep-gladiator-revealed-early-115643/)

Jeep Gladiator - twin cab ute due in 2020 - yet another vehicle that will take sales away from the Defender, if it ever is released...

[goingbush]

I probably shouldn't put this up here... [bighmmm] But I noticed this article today:

2020 Jeep Gladiator revealed early - motoring.com.au (https://www.motoring.com.au/2020-jeep-gladiator-revealed-early-115643/)

Jeep Gladiator - twin cab ute due in 2020 - yet another vehicle that will take sales away from the Defender, if it ever is released...


Live Axles, Flat glass , fold down windscreen , removable roof , probably has a water resistant hose out interior too, Everything Defender customers have been asking for but JLR wont do . And so much for not being able to keep a retro look wit new pedestrian regulations.

Since Im never buying another ICE powered vehicle, ... Bring on the Electric Powered version.

[manic]

Wow, a fold down windscreen, and solid axles for 2020. The new defender could have been a lot more like the old! Booo land rover, boooooo.

[weeds]

3L as well....always figured it load carry capacity was going to be low.

[weeds]

Live Axles, Flat glass , fold down windscreen , removable roof , probably has a water resistant hose out interior too, Everything Defender customers have been asking for but JLR wont do . And so much for not being able to keep a retro look wit new pedestrian regulations.

Since Im never buying another ICE powered vehicle, ... Bring on the Electric Powered version.

Mate, you’ll have a fleet of electric cars the rate that you’re signing up to

[Greg4427]

Wow, a fold down windscreen, and solid axles for 2020. The new defender could have been a lot more like the old! Booo land rover, boooooo.

Fully agree, lazy and incomprehensible! I hope at least that it will be able to be accessorised with off road suitable equipment, 16 inch wheels, raised air intake etc and not glamorised out like the Discovery 5. That totally worked for JLR!

[ozscott]

Gladiator looks awful. and Jeep build.... but on paper good...

Cheers