Engine Options

[G.man]

Hello,

Looking at the different engine options in the Defender from the 200tdi-300tdi, TD5 and the Puma-current...

Think I am set on getting the TD5 motor powered Defender.

Now regarding the TD5 - When did DPF filters come out, when did EGR's get factory fitted and when did Catalytic converters get fitted?

I know from modifying other vehicles, some things you can change and remove other things are illegal to be removed if factory fitted (CAT, EGR, DPF)... to modify a vehicle down the road, it will have to meet the factory specification requirements... eg: If we were for argument sake to stick a Duramax V8 Diesel into a Defender, if the Defender was factory EGR/DPF/CAT those things would have to be on the new V8... if it did not come with those things... then you could essentially get any engine you want because the vehicle has no legal obligation to have those things as they were not factory fitted.

So which model years of TD5 Defenders came out without DPF/EGR/CAT... and which TD5 is probably the best model to go with, with least issues surrounding it?

[donh54]

Hello,

Looking at the different engine options in the Defender from the 200tdi-300tdi, TD5 and the Puma-current...

Think I am set on getting the TD5 motor powered Defender.

Now regarding the TD5 - When did DPF filters come out, when did EGR's get factory fitted and when did Catalytic converters get fitted?

I know from modifying other vehicles, some things you can change and remove other things are illegal to be removed if factory fitted (CAT, EGR, DPF)... to modify a vehicle down the road, it will have to meet the factory specification requirements... eg: If we were for argument sake to stick a Duramax V8 Diesel into a Defender, if the Defender was factory EGR/DPF/CAT those things would have to be on the new V8... if it did not come with those things... then you could essentially get any engine you want because the vehicle has no legal obligation to have those things as they were not factory fitted.

So which model years of TD5 Defenders came out without DPF/EGR/CAT... and which TD5 is probably the best model to go with, with least issues surrounding it?

No DPF on Td5. Mine (1999 D2) has (had) EGR, no Cat.[biggrin]

[BilboBoggles]

So many very expensive things to go wrong on a Td5, from the harmonic balancer, to the flywheel, to the head, to the oil cooler etc etc... A 15 year old Td5 is going to have some issues, but all the common issues are big huge dollar items, that are now getting hard to find. At least with the 300tdi most of the parts were fairly simple low cost items. The td5 was only used on the landrovers in Australia, so the pool of good used engines ones is quite small.

At least with the PUMA, those engines are in a variety of different utes that sold in huge quantifies compared to the old TD5.... My pick is the 2.2 being flat out the best land rover engine I've owned.... It's just had an Alive tune to deactivate the EGR, and now I don't think I need to bother with the LS conversion I had planned, it's so much more torquey.

(I'm living in disappointment with my TD5 defender which is proving damned near impossible to fix...)

[discorevy]

That last line gives it away , I would suggest if you can't fix it take it to someone who can , as for td5 only being for the Australian market ......b/s. Over 300 000 were built.
You won't regret getting the td5, none had dpf , no cat until 2002 , all had egr ( the 2002 on had an egr cooler as well ) , most get rid of the lot , having said that the eu3 (02 on) engine had a few other changes ( different head ,cam , higher pressure injectors ) giving a noticeable increase in torque , they also run a different ( 4 wire aap sensor )which measures intake air temp on top of the usual as well as a 3 pot tps. Another bonus is the change to a flashable ecu which means it's a lot easier to remap . they had their faults back in the day ( plastic head dowels etc) but once sorted you can expect 5-600 000 kilometres .( some have done over a million k without the head off ( those will have had steel dowels from the factory).
all of the oil coolers I have done over the years were a result of poor maintenance ( wrong or no coolant).
Taking the vehicle to someone that knows them before you part with the money could save you a lot of money and headaches.
They are the last land rover diesel ( though there's a small argument for ingenium but it's owned by tata)

[justinc]

That last line gives it away , I would suggest if you can't fix it take it to someone who can , as for td5 only being for the Australian market ......b/s. Over 300 000 were built.
You won't regret getting the td5, none had dpf , no cat until 2002 , all had egr ( the 2002 on had an egr cooler as well ) , most get rid of the lot , having said that the eu3 (02 on) engine had a few other changes ( different head ,cam , higher pressure injectors ) giving a noticeable increase in torque , they also run a different ( 4 wire aap sensor )which measures intake air temp on top of the usual as well as a 3 pot tps. Another bonus is the change to a flashable ecu which means it's a lot easier to remap . they had their faults back in the day ( plastic head dowels etc) but once sorted you can expect 5-600 000 kilometres .( some have done over a million k without the head off ( those will have had steel dowels from the factory).
all of the oil coolers I have done over the years were a result of poor maintenance ( wrong or no coolant).
Taking the vehicle to someone that knows them before you part with the money could save you a lot of money and headaches.
They are the last land rover diesel ( though there's a small argument for ingenium but it's owned by tata)


Forget that ford lump, the td5 is still the allround best engine fitted to a defender. The tdi beats it ONLY on simplicity...

[loanrangie]

I think Bilbo has been in middle earth too long.

[rangieman]

I think Bilbo has been in middle earth too long.
144242

[G.man]

Thanks for the comments.

So should I look Pre 2002 TD5 (No Cat) or go with the CAT and get a 2006 Model...

Btw - what was the 'last' TD5 year, 2006 or 2007?

[cripesamighty]

From memory the Puma Defender came out in the 2007 model year, which runs from late 2006 to late 2007. My guesstimate is mid-late 2006, but happy to stand corrected.

[djam1]

Thanks for the comments.

So should I look Pre 2002 TD5 (No Cat) or go with the CAT and get a 2006 Model...

Btw - what was the 'last' TD5 year, 2006 or 2007?

I like the 2002 on P15-P21 engines not the old P10 they were the first and were improved post 2002 who cares about the cat just put a decat pipe on it.
Wouldn't go near a Puma personally and not just for the engine but that just my opinion.

[DiscoMick]

The six speed manual in the Pumas is a big advantage.

[rick130]

The six speed manual in the Pumas is a big advantage.

With that spud shaft? [bigwhistle]

Maxi Drive low range fixes the low low issue [smilebigeye]

Oh, and I ran into a couple of Bruce Davis' mechs a couple of years ago (at a film shoot of all things!) and they said they and Bruce reckoned the TD5 had more potential and was probably stronger than the Tdci too.
They were talking insane torque numbers on their dyno mule.

[justinc]

He had gotten 600Nm out of one i had heard...and about 180Kw

[djam1]

He had gotten 600Nm out of one i had heard...and about 180Kw

Who will follow along behind and pick up the bits of the R380

[rick130]

Who will follow along behind and pick up the bits of the R380

That's why the gears are inside a case :lol2:

[timax]

I have a 2002 TD5 in my defender and love it!
Clean oil, air and fuel plus a loom and starter motor kit is all mine have needed in the last 150k. Its the one part of the car i never worry about on trips.

[rar110]

The six speed manual in the Pumas is a big advantage.

Personally I hated the 6 speed manual when I did a test drive, but was driving a LT95 with a diesel (bucket loads of torque) at the time. I had to change gears too often. 1st was too low, 2nd a little high, for launch gears.

But I guess you would get used to it owning one.

[rick130]

Personally I hated the 6 speed manual when I did a test drive, but was driving a LT95 with a diesel (bucket loads of torque) at the time. I had to change gears too often. 1st was too low, 2nd a little high, for launch gears.

But I guess you would get used to it owning one.

I actually really, really dislike the change of the MT82 in the BT50, I much prefer the up change of the R380.
I realise most people think the other way around, but I drove a BT50 for near two years and did 50,000km in it.

[G.man]

Thanks,

So what is the consensus here? Or it doesn't matter if it is a 2002 or 2006?

I guess based on what was said, any 2007 Defender will be the Puma engine, thus the 2006 is the last of the defenders with the TD5?

I would assume the last one would be the most improved compare to earlier ones... CAT i suppose doesn't matter. Its not like it will hinder the vehicle in any way.

[timax]

Well the latter have programmable ECU and the better head dowels. Slightly different dash finish also.
Otherwise i think they are the same.
Condition is what id be looking at more than anything. Buy one that hasnt been trashed or neglected.

[G.man]

Hey,

I was reading another thread and someone said they have a 2008 Defender which was the first year for the Ford engine...

Sorry just to clarify... are the 2007 Model defenders that can be bought with the TD5 engine, or is 2006 the last of the TD5 and the guy that said he has a 2008 First of ford engine is actually 2nd year for the Ford motor?

I get confused with the whole year thing. I read specs where it says X-year - 2007 for the TD5, then says 2007-2016 for the Puma.

So did TD5 end in 2006, or you can buy vehicle that is 2007 with TD5? :confused:

[MLD]

Traditionally Defenders were released around the beginning of Q3 each year and labelled MY for the year to come. for example a release in Sept/Oct 16 was labelled MY17. Some people quote the build stamp as the age, some quote the release year (MY), some quote the year it was first registered. For the last example it might have been built mid 16, first registered in late 16 and labelled MY17. Clear as mud?

As for the change over, you will see TD5's and Pumas both called MY07 in the adverts. Simple identifier is the bulge in the bonnet. TD5 flat bonnet, Puma bulge in bonnet.

As for the comments on Puma MT82 gearbox. Its subjective. I hated the R380 box in my TD5. First was too high and shooting into the darkness with a blindfold was more precise than the shift in a R380. Again that's my opinion and take it with a grain of salt. The only way to know is to drive a few defenders of various years and age and see what you like/dislike.

M&D engineering in UK sell an adaptor for the MT82 to the TD5 engine if you happen to love the TD5 engine and love the Puma gearbox.

IMO you are getting bogged down on the detail and semantics between models. Each series will have Pro's and Con's. Each vehicle will be affected by its age, milage, service history, location it is stored (ocean v inland). The best indicator is your diary air while driving and a good once over inspection.

If you hang around this forum long enough you can put a fiver on the likely response from regular members advocating various models or advocating certain brands for parts (that's because we are all influences by our own experiences, subjective likes and dislikes and buyers bias). That's not to say those people are wrong (often it is sound advice), just be wary that it creates semantics which in the long run, fall away when you find your own path and form your own biases.

[plusnq]

Traditionally Defenders were released around the beginning of Q3 each year and labelled MY for the year to come. for example a release in Sept/Oct 16 was labelled MY17. Some people quote the build stamp as the age, some quote the release year (MY), some quote the year it was first registered. For the last example it might have been built mid 16, first registered in late 16 and labelled MY17. Clear as mud?

As for the change over, you will see TD5's and Pumas both called MY07 in the adverts. Simple identifier is the bulge in the bonnet. TD5 flat bonnet, Puma bulge in bonnet.

As for the comments on Puma MT82 gearbox. Its subjective. I hated the R380 box in my TD5. First was too high and shooting into the darkness with a blindfold was more precise than the shift in a R380. Again that's my opinion and take it with a grain of salt. The only way to know is to drive a few defenders of various years and age and see what you like/dislike.

M&D engineering in UK sell an adaptor for the MT82 to the TD5 engine if you happen to love the TD5 engine and love the Puma gearbox.

IMO you are getting bogged down on the detail and semantics between models. Each series will have Pro's and Con's. Each vehicle will be affected by its age, milage, service history, location it is stored (ocean v inland). The best indicator is your diary air while driving and a good once over inspection.

If you hang around this forum long enough you can put a fiver on the likely response from regular members advocating various models or advocating certain brands for parts (that's because we are all influences by our own experiences, subjective likes and dislikes and buyers bias). That's not to say those people are wrong (often it is sound advice), just be wary that it creates semantics which in the long run, fall away when you find your own path and form your own biases.

Great post 👍

[G.man]

Thanks for the feedback.

From my understanding (just looking at American muscle cars for a sec) - I know the 1968 Dodge Charger was the first year for the new styling... however, it is built towards the end of 1967 sold as "1968".

So is that what you are saying with the TD5, that they were finishing the last run towards the end of 2006 which would in turn be sold on show room floors as a 2007, and thus a 2007 TD5 is the last of the TD5s?

Regarding the gearbox stuff since that has been mentioned a few times...

I would eventually like to make the Defender an Automatic (like the Jeeps are Auto)... can this be done with the TD5? Would the model of year make any difference to this or no difference?

[rick130]

I would eventually like to make the Defender an Automatic (like the Jeeps are Auto)... can this be done with the TD5? Would the model of year make any difference to this or no difference?

The tranny out of the Disco works.

A few blokes on here have done it, Strangy converted a Tdi to TD5/auto with Disco instruments, cruise control, etc.
It's an impressive car

[weeds]

I haven’t seen an 07 TD5 for sale....not saying there isn’t any just I have not seen one.

I’d love an auto behind mine....but can not justify pulling a perfectly good manual out.

I have a low k 2000 TD5 ‘95k’...an ex army one, they pop up every now and than with extremely low k’s, only problem is they are 2 door only.

I’ve removed EGR and installed a later ECU.

[rar110]

As Weeds said, late 2006 is when Puma Ford powered MY07 Defender started. No 2007 plated TD5 as far as I know.

[G.man]

As Weeds said, late 2006 is when Puma Ford powered MY07 Defender started. No 2007 plated TD5 as far as I know.

So the 2006 model is the last TD5. 2007 onward = Puma design ?

Terms of the Gearbox... are there better (aftermarket/performance) gearboxes available other than the Discovery 2 Auto for the TD5?

Just wondering why everyone does the D2 auto, is it simplicity/works so no need to look at anything else, or other options for Auto don't exist?

[timax]

Yes its all simple and factory parts.
My 2002 TD5 has an Auto with the matching higher ratio transfer case. Slow on hills because the defender has bigger wheels but i love it.
Nice relaxed cruising and so much easier in Sydney's traffic.

[rar110]

So the 2006 model is the last TD5. 2007 onward = Puma design ?


Yes AFAIK early/mid 2006 was cut off for TD5, which was a MY04 I think. Puma started at end of 2006 as MY07 Defender.

But Land Rover has been known to progress special order vehicles. So a 2007 TD5 is not impossible. But I think most were looking forward to the heavily revised/improved interior in the Puma with an all new motor. So retro orders for a TD5 seem unlikely.

[Colmoore]

Puma or td5? Depends on how much you’re willing to spend.