Helicopter cattle mustering engine failure mystery

[bob10]

Pilots fear for their safety.

Investigation into mid-air engine failures yet to yield answers as pilots fear for their safety - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-30/av-gas-helicopter-aviation-engine-component-casa/10306564?utm_source=sfmc&utm_medium=email&utm_content=&utm_campaign=%3a8940&user_id=c17365ab07572ed90614d245ada5ad675f6bc00189 fa766123c70d76d1d7cddf&WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=Email%7c%7c8940RuralMail_ArticleLink)

[bob10]

Helicopters at risk of mid-air failure, federal regulator warns northern Australia operators - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-08/helicopter-engine-failure-avgas-risks-casa-warning/10083928)

[Fourgearsticks]

Might have something to do with logging only half the hours flown

[cripesamighty]

Wasn't that done by popping the circuit breaker or fuse to stop logging number of hours flown? Australia has a REALLY bad reputation for R22 accidents with supposed MTBF of parts going against the stats of the rest of the world. I have a friend who flies choppers offshore and will NEVER set foot in an Aussie R22 as he reckons it's a crapshoot safety-wise. This epic fail looks like it's more to do with the changed fuel type and not from operational usage though. Will just have to wait and see what the outcome is.

[4bee]

Wasn't that done by popping the circuit breaker or fuse to stop logging number of hours flown? Australia has a REALLY bad reputation for R22 accidents with supposed MTBF of parts going against the stats of the rest of the world. I have a friend who flies choppers offshore and will NEVER set foot in an Aussie R22 as he reckons it's a crapshoot safety-wise. This epic fail looks like it's more to do with the changed fuel type and not from operational usage though. Will just have to wait and see what the outcome is.


I wonder whether it has something to do with upgraded Fuel Tanks which as you may recall were very prone to fire in a crash situation. ie. Are they of a satisfactory design or were design changes made which created more problems with fuel supply?

They weren't allowed to fly unless the new Tanks were fitted.

[rick130]

This epic fail looks like it's more to do with the changed fuel type and not from operational usage though. Will just have to wait and see what the outcome is.

That's what I've read, an unannounced drop in TEL by the fuel supplier leading to valve seat cracking, valve burning, etc.

[Hugh Jars]

What about the licorice stick rotor blades that are susceptible to.......... just turning to licorice in flight?

[Fourgearsticks]

Back in the really olden days my first flying job was fixed wing mustering. The bloke I worked for had 6 Hughes 300's, lovely little machines and a lot stronger than Robo toy 22. Many years after I went on to other flying he decided to get a Robo when they came out. He was the first fatality mustering in Robo. Blade pulled out, he had flown twice (4000 hours) the recomended replacement time when the aircraft self destructed. His stupidity caused his own demise but trouble was he took a Station manager with him into oblivion.
Casa knew what was going on, still do but they let things go. There are many ways time is not logged, will always go on. Fixed wing side they have almost regulated/fined/audited/priced and harrased GA out of existance, the saying "We're not happy till your not happy" would be funny if it wasn't so true.
This current problem does sound to be in the fuel system somewhere.

[4bee]

JEEEEEZUZ gearsticks! Oops, I nearly typed four candles. [smilebigeye] I hope that things have changed within CASA since then, because that really is some indictment on an organisation charged with the protection of the air travelling public let alone crews & pilots in general.
Is this what Dick Smith used to get all upset about?.

[cripesamighty]

Not only Dick Smith, but other pilots who have flown overseas and then come here and got drowned in red tape. A mate who came back to Oz from the USA after flying there for 13 years called the comparison between the way the FAA’s rules were written as ‘clarity’ vs CASA’s rules as ‘legality’ and how it seems to have devolved since he last flew here.

[Fourgearsticks]

CASA won't be happy until GA is totally safe, that means no aircraft flying. Take aviation medicals as an example. FAA allows doctors to write out medicals, in the US you can walk into a doctors and come out with your medical after examination. Anybody over 50 in AUS has to spend considerable amounts in tests of all sorts only to have the medical submited to Canberra medical mob for "Assessment", they have stated there is a 28 day waiting list before the medical is looked at then can be weeks before it is rubber stamped for another year.
CASA does absolutly NOTHING to promote or help GA. Even 20 years ago every town had a charter and training business operating, nearly all gone now through over regulation and petty minded CASA operatives doing everything they can to make it hard.
We ran our own aviation business for 20 years, it all just became too hard. Since round 2010 I have been flying for others mostly overseas as pay and conditions are generally better in third world countries than Australia.

[cripesamighty]

Shortly before my mate came home from the USA he was in the process of buying and adding a Turbo Commander to his company’s register. The whole process didn’t look overly complicated as you worked off a generic FAA certification manual and added/subtracted the bits that applied to your operation.

When he got home he showed me one page of his FAA manual (containing only 2 paragraphs actually) which described a particular requirement. He then showed me the equivalent CASA regs which ran to 3 full pages and covered the same thing but was overly complicated to the extreme.

I think CASA could do with a flamethrower going through the place and basically start again without the current obfuscating idiots in charge. If the most litigious country on the planet can keep it relatively simple, then we have no excuse whatsoever!

[4bee]

Next time I go anywhere I think I'll drive. Sounds like it could be safer.

Thanks for the heads up. It seems Flying generally is perilous enough without all that crap.

[Old Farang]

I wonder whether it has something to do with upgraded Fuel Tanks which as you may recall were very prone to fire in a crash situation. ie. Are they of a satisfactory design or were design changes made which created more problems with fuel supply?

They weren't allowed to fly unless the new Tanks were fitted.
I hope that this thread does not drift into "Robinson bashing". There is plenty of scope for that on PPRUNE!
As far as I am aware the fuel tank replacement under
CASA AWB 28-017 reads:


The Robinson SB calls for the tanks to be replaced in R22s as soon as practical, but no later than the next 2200-hour overhaul, 12-year inspection or 15 January 2020, which ever occurs first.

I owned a very early s/n R22(under s/n 200) that did not have the later tip weighted MR blades. As far as I know it is still on the register!
Frank Robinson(whom I have met) did not envisage in his wildest dreams, some of the antics mustering pilots get up to in these helicopters! As with any other aircraft, operate it outside of its designed limits at your own risk.



Might have something to do with logging only half the hours flown
Absolutely! But in this case I don't believe that is the problem. The earlier ones had a problem with sticking valves, due to lead building up in the guides. We had a procedure in place whereby we pressurised each cylinder and dropped the valve stem down far enough to clean up the guide.



Blade pulled out, he had flown twice (4000 hours)
Yes, I knew this bloke with a very Irish name. I don't know about 4,000 hours, but his fuel records showed a lot more hours fuel used than that on the VDO. For a very short time mine was out on cross hire, and I caught the pilot out pulling the wire off the VDO for ferry flights. As my engineer at the time exploded: "that bloody piece going around up there does not know what the time is"!

[LRT]

COMBAT LEARJET on Instagram: “Now that is a “Rodeo” •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••#Repost @trafego_aereo By @radiant_yowie .…” (https://www.instagram.com/p/BouwJitnKap/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=rawpxypj7x3i)

[Old Farang]

COMBAT LEARJET on Instagram: “Now that is a “Rodeo” ••••••••••••••••� �••••••••••••••••� ��•••••••••••••••• •••••••••••#Repost @trafego_aereo By @radiant_yowie .…” (https://www.instagram.com/p/BouwJitnKap/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=rawpxypj7x3i)
Yes, that is a perfect example of an absolute idiot that leads to Robinsons getting a bad wrap! Not only over stressing the machine, but also the cattle. There is no need OR excuse for pushing a mob in that manner. If he were to do it with any stock that I was responsible for he would last long enough to land, gets his arse kicked, and sent on his stupid way!