Gender neutral

[laney]

So my daughter is in university and has been told that students must refrain from saying male, female, he,she ,him or her so what do you call them I was brought up that if it had a d##k it was a male and if not a female. Now I don't believe in freedom of speech as it's not free as hundreds of thousands died in wars so we could have liberated speech but all the do gooders seem to be eroding this I think her lectures won't like me if I call them ******* when they tell me I must talk gender neutral at her next open day.:bat:

[LRJim]

So my daughter is in university and has been told that students must refrain from saying male, female, he,she ,him or her so what do you call them I was brought up that if it had a d##k it was a male and if not a female. Now I don't believe in freedom of speech as it's not free as hundreds of thousands died in wars so we could have liberated speech but all the do gooders seem to be eroding this I think her lectures won't like me if I call them ******* when they tell me I must talk gender neutral at her next open day.:bat:My wife and I got married right when the whole gay marriage thing was coming in. We had to fill the forms out twice because the legislation changed. 1st original form said male, female, Bachelor, Spinster, mother, father
2nd time we had to fill it out to follow the new laws it's said male, female, other. Person 1 person 2 (bride and groom)
And then parents of instead of mother and father.
I'm not against people's personal choices but it's really getting out of hand now, i've heard of parents being told not to call their children boy or girl even.
It's a very touchy subject which really shouldn't be brought up here and no doubt will get this thread banned. (I sorta hope it does)
Cheers Jim

[timax]

Is "W****R" not sexist? I mean that would be implying a male would it not?
Please Laney a little more respect!


Couldn't agree with you more!!

Oh and how silly that "W........R" gets censored on here.:thumbsdown:

[Ferret]

Is '******' gender neutral? If so they probably wont complain. BTW, which university?

Just to add, was filling a form the other day. Instead of just a check box for 'male' or 'female' It asked - "what sex do you identify as" and gave some options.

[laney]

Not going into what Uni this thread may get removed as some may find it offensive I find being told how to talk to someone offensive especially if my conversation has nothing to do with them do I apologise for what I believe not a chance.

[Slunnie]

Academic writing has been like that ever since I can remember, certainly when I did my post-grad and I'm pretty sure it was when I did my under-grad.

This is probably closer to the point:

Non-discriminatory language (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/)

[rocket scientist]

Simple , we just need to stand up to these do gooders and not lower ourselves to their level.What are they going to do? I don't think there is a law yet banning the use of him, her, male, female, etc, etc, etc. [bigwhistle]

[rangieman]

All this BS correctness is getting totally way out of control [bighmmm]

Personally i don`t care what any of these touchy feel good pretend authority groups try and enforce as it wont cut the mustard with me :soapbox:

[bee utey]

It doesn't change the way I see my personal gender and I don't give a damn what gender other people want to call themselves. Brains aren't wired precisely one way or the other depending on what's between your legs and I'll engage with a person's face not their crotch. Storm in a teacup, people.

[LRJim]

Unfortunately it's the way the countries going. Being PC is more important than common sense now.
Can't shove feathers up a dogs ass and call it a chicken.

[350RRC]

My moisty is cracking up reading all this.

DL

[laney]

True I take a person as they take me don't care what gender they are or identify as.

[Fifth Columnist]

I am male and have 'dangly' bits. My female wife has 'bulgey' bits.
That's the way it should be and I defy anyone to tell me otherwise.

[bee utey]

It still amuses me that some people cling so desperately to the either/or view of gender. Medical science has been aware that gender isn't perfectly binary for donkeys years, it's about time ordinary people caught up with the facts. [bigsmile1]

[Toxic_Avenger]

So X and Y chromosomes are not a thing anymore?!
My DNA is a LIE.

[cripesamighty]

Jordan Peterson and a bunch of other academics and commentators have been getting stuck right into these cultural marxist ideologues/idiots and wiping the floor with them using facts, logic and reason, but unfortunately the stupidity disease is spreading.

[bee utey]

So X and Y chromosomes are not a thing anymore?!
My DNA is a LIE.

They aren't a lie, they just don't 100% guarantee the expected binary outcome.

[bee utey]

Jordan Peterson and a bunch of other academics and commentators have been getting stuck right into these cultural marxist ideologues/idiots and wiping the floor with them using facts, logic and reason, but unfortunately the stupidity disease is spreading.

JP panders to uninformed people, reinforcing their fervently held biases. He has been roundly ridiculed by those that study these things in depth.

[cripesamighty]

Bob's link of Stephen Fry talking about political correctness is pretty good.

The best argument against political correctness I've heard (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/265565-best-argument-against-political-correctness-ive-heard.html)

The problem isn't whether a biological sex determination continuum exists, it is instead how language is being used as a political and cultural weapon which is the issue.

[Tins]

JP panders to uninformed people, reinforcing their fervently held biases. He has been roundly ridiculed by those that study these things in depth.

What nonsense. He has only been ridiculed by ideologues. He says that gender is not a social construct, and he is absolutely correct.

[3toes]

When brother was at Uni 30 years ago quickly learned that you followed what they told you as it is not real life. Uni is a separate universe where normal rules do not always apply. Papers had to follow the political beliefs of the lecturers to obtain a good grade. Any deviation from the political line was not tolerated and was marked down ‘appropriately’. Seems nothing has changed

[DiscoMick]

Anyone can change gender by taking the right drugs plus a bit of surgery. Our DNA allows for both results. A large number of people are doing it all the time around the world.

[87County]

They aren't a lie, they just don't 100% guarantee the expected binary outcome.

Hence the descriptive term "gender non-binary" :) ....

Have to agree with you beeutey, that it's a storm in a teacup - or a fuss about nothing at all.

[martnH]

Because some young kids are weak and sensitive
If you don't baby them, they may commit suicide

[DAMINK]

Gender Neutral. What a load of horse****.
Unless you were born with no distinguishable reproductive organs then your either man or a woman.

The fact the majority have to swallow this crap annoys me beyond words.

[Homestar]

Why does it matter so much to others what some people want to call themselves or class themselves as?

[rick130]

Because some young kids are weak and sensitive
If you don't baby them, they may commit suicideI hope you're being sarcastic as sensitive is not weak.

Describing it like that is how we've got into this bloody paternalistic, misogynistic mess that society finds itself in, where entitled alpha males and their beta followers treat women and any other person that doesn't fit into their narrow definitions as second class citizens.
Or worse.

As a very clever psych I know says, most men are ***** as they are so damaged, they use being a **** as a defence.

[DAMINK]

Why does it matter so much to others what some people want to call themselves or class themselves as?

It becomes a problem when they ask and expect the world to know there identification ie those or them as apposed to her or him.

We are coded to know the difference between men and woman. Many identifiers are subtle not just the genitals.

Its unreasonable for people to expect this.

I can think of a recent video i watched where a lady asked she be identified as Them or Those.

When i was a kid that was WRONG! Stereotyping infact.

This same woman assumed the man she was talking to was a man. Interesting no? He cant assume she is a woman but she can assume he is a man.

Gone are the days of common sense and rational thinking.

Minorities rule this world.

[cripesamighty]

I remember watching an interview with Yuri Bezmenov a couple of decades ago and it was bloody scary. I kept that in the back of my mind when I went to uni and was amazed at the level of closeted thinking. It seems since then Yuri’s “useful idiots” have been increasing exponentially and his warnings have come to nought....

[Homestar]

It becomes a problem when they ask and expect the world to know there identification ie those or them as apposed to her or him.

We are coded to know the difference between men and woman. Many identifiers are subtle not just the genitals.

Its unreasonable for people to expect this.

I can think of a recent video i watched where a lady asked she be identified as Them or Those.

When i was a kid that was WRONG! Stereotyping infact.

This same woman assumed the man she was talking to was a man. Interesting no? He cant assume she is a woman but she can assume he is a man.

Gone are the days of common sense and rational thinking.

Minorities rule this world.

They don't expect you to know but once pointed out prefer you to acknowledge it if that's part of the conversation being had but It almost never comes up in normal conversation anyway - how often do you start a conversation with 'So you a bloke or a sheila?'

It's not about minorities ruling anything - do you have any idea how hard it is to grow up being different? Any idea what it's like to be discriminated against every day because you don't fit into a category that generally middle aged white males made for people in the first place and have demanded the population to abide by for centuries? I'd suggest if you grew up as a white heterosexual male in Australia then you'd have no idea. If you think for a second that anyone from the LGBTIQ community rules anything then you're clearly out of touch with the world - people like you continue to mock their chosen lifestyles and actively discriminate against them. Just because it is different to how you view the world doesn't make it wrong or unacceptable.

Rant over, but 'm personally sick of how intolerant our society continues to be.

It's a brave new world - get on board.

[DAMINK]

people like you continue to mock their chosen lifestyles and actively discriminate against them.

You really go out of your way to try belittle me dont you.
I dont discriminate against anyone and certainly dont mock there choice.

Personally im a little offended by your continued attacks on me.
This would have to be the 5th thread now where you have chosen to attack me personally.

If you want me address send me a pm i will be glad to give you it.

[bee utey]

What nonsense. He has only been ridiculed by ideologues. He says that gender is not a social construct, and he is absolutely correct.

If you say so... :TakeABow:

[goingbush]

Is "W****R" not sexist? I mean that would be implying a male would it not?
Please Laney a little more respect!


Couldn't agree with you more!!

Oh and how silly that "W........R" gets censored on here.:thumbsdown:

Yes they are *******,

and no its not sexist, Females (or whatever you want to call the other gender) can masturbate too actually !!

[bee utey]

You really go out of your way to try belittle me dont you.
I dont discriminate against anyone and certainly dont mock there choice.

Personally im a little offended by your continued attacks on me.
This would have to be the 5th thread now where you have chosen to attack me personally.

If you want me address send me a pm i will be glad to give you it.

Relaaax, you aren't being attacked, just some of the ideas that you put up on this forum are being disagreed with. Differences of opinion make the world spin faster, no use getting upset about it. :beer:

[goingbush]

I hope you're being sarcastic as sensitive is not weak.

Describing it like that is how we've got into this bloody paternalistic, misogynistic mess that society finds itself in, where entitled alpha males and their beta followers treat women and any other person that doesn't fit into their narrow definitions as second class citizens.
Or worse.

As a very clever psych I know says, most men are ***** as they are so damaged, they use being a **** as a defence.


Well said, could not agree more .

[LRJim]

Told y'all it's a very touchy subject, everyone has such strong views. And those that disagree with the change get called out for it unfortuanlty. Equality my ass.

[DAMINK]

Relaaax, you aren't being attacked, just some of the ideas that you put up on this forum are being disagreed with. Differences of opinion make the world spin faster, no use getting upset about it. :beer:


people like you continue to mock their chosen lifestyles and actively discriminate against them.

Well people like me?

I dont mock anyone infact if we were to list how diverse our friendship groups are i would likely win! Everything from Murderers to Miners and many inbetween.
I dont discriminate. Hell my best friend growing up was gay.... or both i think as he did date girls.

Not a personal attack?

Certainly feels like one to me.

Meh my input is not needed here.

[Homestar]

You really go out of your way to try belittle me dont you.
I dont discriminate against anyone and certainly dont mock there choice.

Personally im a little offended by your continued attacks on me.
This would have to be the 5th thread now where you have chosen to attack me personally.

If you want me address send me a pm i will be glad to give you it.

I personally can't see anywhere where I have belittled you to be honest - I'm just putting my point of view across the same as you.

I would say the comment below is directly mocking those we are discussing which is what I was pointing out and stand by - You are saying that anyone that doesn't identify as Male or Female is not rational - and you think that isn't mocking them? Hmmm.... If you think it is a personal attack, then you - and anyone else that thinks this - can report the posts and have the Mods and Admins decide. I will always abide by any decision they make on a subject.

Anything I have to say to you I'm happy to say here as the same rules apply via PM, so no difference to me to be honest.

If you can't stand the heat...




Gone are the days of common sense and rational thinking.

Minorities rule this world.

[VladTepes]

What do you identify as?
1. Male
2. Female
3. Land Cruiser driver.

[DAMINK]

Removed...

[DiscoMick]

It becomes a problem when they ask and expect the world to know there identification ie those or them as apposed to her or him.

We are coded to know the difference between men and woman. Many identifiers are subtle not just the genitals.

Its unreasonable for people to expect this.

I can think of a recent video i watched where a lady asked she be identified as Them or Those.

When i was a kid that was WRONG! Stereotyping infact.

This same woman assumed the man she was talking to was a man. Interesting no? He cant assume she is a woman but she can assume he is a man.

Gone are the days of common sense and rational thinking.

Minorities rule this world.That's plural which is grammatically wrong. It's also third person which is wrong as it should be second person singular. Just say 'You' which is singular. Don't say 'youse' which is ocker bogan. [emoji16]

I've seen it claimed that about 10% of people surveyed feel they are trapped in a body of the wrong gender, but I don't know how that could be verified.
We have one in our family. Anyone who is rude to that person will get an ear-bashing from me. It's something only that person can work through, I reckon. No-one else's business.

[Slunnie]

I've seen it claimed that about 10% of people surveyed feel they are trapped in a body of the wrong gender, but I don't know how that could be verified.

Admittedly, for quite a while I felt like a male trapped in a females body. But then I was born.

[djam1]

YouTube (https://youtu.be/x98cE4QCrlk)

[LRJim]

Removed...Why? I googled your old cheese, you should make a movie. Pretty crazy **** to be brought up with. Is he still alive if you don't mind me asking?

[DAMINK]

Why? I googled your old cheese, you should make a movie. Pretty crazy **** to be brought up with. Is he still alive if you don't mind me asking?

On advice from Inc.

Yes he is still alive. Fit as a fiddle the old bugger. Never stopped visiting him from the time he went in actually.
And yea there is MUCH talk of a book deal. They have written a few things on him but never in any real detail.
He is and always has been rather reluctant to do so for fear of putting his kids in danger. Me i could not care less really.
Some stuff was really sensitive back in the day. Trials were ongoing etc. But this was a lifetime ago now.

[LRJim]

On advice from Inc.


Fair enough wasn't really G rated. But I hope a few people got a read or Google. I mentioned his name to my wife who's right into crime stories. And she's heard all about your old man. I'm not gonna bang on about it but I think you've come along way from an upbringing like that! I know were I'd be if that was my childhood.

[DT-P38]

The world I grew up in was a much more civilised one than the argumentative, aggressive, confrontational, limelight seeking, fluff, **** and wind of today's "minority (am I not special enough?) needs", ho-hum, bang the drum", SJW fuelled, crap-ola.

[tonguewink]

The clear majority of my forebears had a peaceful, happy, existence... and that's how I tend to like it these days. Outside of the privacy of your own home, or perhaps when you are amongst close friends, try to:

1. Keep your politics in the polling booth;
2. Keep your religion in your church; and
3. Keep your sex life in your bedroom.

Oh yeah, and whatever your persuasion(s), keep your opinions (and certainly dictates - like in the OP) on any of these subjects away from children - especially if you are in a public education facility. Teach the knowledge and definitions of what's out there, but don't preach OR dictate your choice of morality around these private areas. Both mine and my children's private views are whatever we discuss and choose to live our lives by, NOT what some "Special SJW" feels driven to indoctrinate others with - just so themselves, or their buddies, can feel better about being different from the majority.

I honestly believe these civilised basics can keep us ALL calm, respectful and equal in every way... that's assuming we are all able to live without constant validation from others and that we can control our urges for "winning the good fight" in public.

I would bet the clear majority of those that can't stick to these 3 principles probably just need to find a new polling booth, church or bedroom!!! OR PERHAPS SOME OTHER WAY OF TRYING TO ATTAIN POWER OVER OTHERS?!?

[martnH]

I think some are sensitive and weak. They can't live with the fact they are abnormal.

Queers are not normal. They are minority., Not typical human. Of course, they have rights to live the life they wish. They are abnormal but it's okay.

But it's not okay to suggest me that queers are normal and that Homosexual is equivalent to heterosexual. It's not. They are different. For example, one makes baby, the other doesn't

(normal

ˈnɔːm(ə)l/

adjective. conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.




I hope you're being sarcastic as sensitive is not weak.

Describing it like that is how we've got into this bloody paternalistic, misogynistic mess that society finds itself in, where entitled alpha males and their beta followers treat women and any other person that doesn't fit into their narrow definitions as second class citizens.
Or worse.

As a very clever psych I know says, most men are ***** as they are so damaged, they use being a **** as a defence.

[DiscoMick]

If there is a normal, then there must also be an abnormal. So it is normal for some to be abnormal
As JC said, let those who are without sin cast the first stones.

[Slunnie]

I love how threads like this really bring the best out in people - I'm really surprised at how it started, what it turned in to and some of the venom, but I shouldn't be.

This is actually what it is:


Non-discriminatory language

UNE supports the use of non-discriminatory language in the work of its staff and students. It promotes the use of inclusive language to address and describe all people, regardless of sex, race, ethnicity and physical or intellectual characteristics. Use acceptable, inclusive language for:


Gender and/or sexual orientation (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#gender-and-or-sexual-orientation)
Indigenous peoples (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#indigenous-peoples)
Physical and/or intellectual ability (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#physical-and-or-intellectual-ability)
Race, ethnicity and/or religion (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#race-ethnicity-and-or-religion)
Other examples (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#other-examples)
Legal requirements (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#legal-requirements)

Grammar (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/grammar/) checkers will not signal the inappropriate use of language in terms of discrimination. You will need to know the language guidelines for using non-discriminatory language, and apply these to your writing.
Gender and/or sexual orientation

You should use inclusive language (gender neutral, non-sexist, non-gender specific) that includes women and treats men and women equally.
Use titles and modes of address consistently for men and for women.
Use Ms in preference to Miss/Mrs, unless this is preferred by the individual being referred to.

Use he, his, him, himself only when referring specifically to males.
AVOID: Each student is responsible for his library loan.
PREFERRED: Each student is responsible for his/her library loan.


Use the words man/woman, girl/boy, gentleman/lady in a parallel way.
AVOID: Ladies and men should …
PREFERRED: Ladies and gentlemen should …
OR: Men and women should …


Use similar terms when describing the same characteristics in women and men.
AVOID: Only ambitious men and aggressive women succeed in the business world.
PREFERRED: Only ambitious men and women succeed in the business world.


Avoid using occupational titles containing the feminine suffixes -ess, -ette, -trix, -ienne.
Rather than authoress, author would generally be preferred.
Rather than headmistress/headmaster, principal would generally be preferred.
Rather than comedienne, comedian would generally be preferred.


Avoid using gender-specific occupational titles.
Rather than tradesman, tradesperson would be preferred.
Rather than businessman, executive would be preferred.
Rather than craftsman, artisan would be preferred.


Avoid the generic use of man or of composite words involving the syllable (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/syllable/) man.
Rather than spokesman, spokesperson would be preferred.
Rather than mankind, humanity would be preferred.
Rather than chairman, chair would be preferred.


Avoid using gendered terms or expressions that may be patronising and/or demeaning.
AVOID: Students should seek assistance from the ladies in the office.
PREFERRED: Students should seek assistance from the staff in the office.


Avoid irrelevant, gratuitous gender descriptions.
the lady editor; the female doctor; the homosexual Minister

Avoid unnecessary reference to the relationship and or parenting status of a person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) or a group.
AVOID: Jack Smith and his wife
PREFERRED: Jack and Jane Smith
AVOID: the mother-of-five appointed to the position of Minister of Education.
PREFERRED: the woman appointed to the position of Minister of Education.


Back to top of page (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#page-top)
Indigenous peoples

Always use capital A for Aboriginals and capitals for Torres Strait Islanders, and the names of the various groups to which individuals belong.
Aboriginal peoples; Australian Aboriginals; Koorie; Goorie; Yolngu

Never use negative, discriminatory or stereotypical terms that would be offensive to the Indigenous peoples of Australia.

Back to top of page (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#page-top)
Physical and/or intellectual ability

Avoid unnecessary reference to the physical and or intellectual ability of a person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) or a group.
A blind musician played the violin at the local concert.

Avoid using terms which equate a person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) or a group with a disability.
Rather than a blind musician, a musician with a vision impairment would be preferred.

Use terms that recognise that a disability is only one characteristic of the person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) or group.


Rather than:
these might be preferred:

a disabled person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/)
a person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) with a disability; people with special needs

deaf
people with hearing impairments

blind
people with visual impairments

handicapped
people with physical disabilities; people with psychiatric disorders[/TD]


Avoid imprecise terms and euphemisms for a person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) or a group with a disability.
Schizophrenia is a particular type of psychiatric disorder, not a general term.

Never use the terms victim or sufferer to refer to a person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) or a group who has or has had an illness, disease or disability.

Back to top of page (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#page-top)
Race, ethnicity and/or religion

Use the term Australian for all groups of people who live permanently in Australia. If it is important to specify the descent or ethnicity of a person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) or group, or to distinguish between people born in Australia and elsewhere, then use a qualifier in conjunction with Australian (as the noun (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/noun/)) or use hyphenated forms.
Vietnamese-born Australian; Jewish Australians; Italo-Australian

Avoid unnecessary reference to the ethnic or racial background of a person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) or a group.
Some Lebanese youths were injured in the accident.

Avoid terms which denigrate a person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) or a group on the basis of race, ethnicity and/or religion.

Back to top of page (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#page-top)
Other examples

Avoid unwarranted assumptions about age.

Rather than:
these might be preferred:

old people’s home
aged care facility

pensioner
older people

geriatrics
seniors, mature aged


Avoid terms which denigrate a person (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/glossary/person/) or a group on the basis of geographical location. Do not use derogatory terms to refer in an unfavourable manner to the places where people live.
Rather than country hicks, people who live in the country would be preferred.

Back to top of page (https://aso-resources.une.edu.au/academic-writing/usage/non-discriminatory-language/#page-top)
Legal requirements

‘Australia’s commitment to inclusiveness is embodied in both federal and state laws. They include the federal Racial Discrimination Act 1975, Sex Discrimination Act 1984, Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission Act 1986 and Disability Discrimination Act 1992, as well as the various state Acts relating to equal opportunity and anti-discrimination. Under this legislation, it is generally unlawful to discriminate on the grounds of race, colour, national or ethnic origin, gender or physical or mental capabilities.
Linguistic discrimination can take various forms that may marginalise or exclude particular segments of the population—whether unwittingly or not. Stereotypical description of any group of people or member of an identifiable group is probably the most insidious. There is no place in public documents for uninformed, prejudiced or merely insensitive references of this type.’ (Commonwealth of Australia, 2002, p. 55)

Commonwealth of Australia. (2002). Style manual: for authors, editors and writers (6th ed.). Canberra, Australia: John Wiley & Sons Ltd.

[auslizard]

I have always been an attack helicopter I knew this from very early in life. I would run around the room making helicopter sounds but no one believed me. Now people have the common decency to see me for what I am, a fully fledged apache attack helicopter I feel like society has finally accepted me. Thanks for never giving up the fight guys.
.

[LRJim]

I have always been an attack helicopter I knew this from very early in life. I would run around the room making helicopter sounds but no one believed me. Now people have the common decency to see me for what I am, a fully fledged apache attack helicopter I feel like society has finally accepted me. Thanks for never giving up the fight guys.
.[emoji1] https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/5cf3aa3ed5a0abfba12925f0852d4262.jpg

[auslizard]

[emoji1] https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/5cf3aa3ed5a0abfba12925f0852d4262.jpg


:)

[DiscoMick]

I have always been an attack helicopter I knew this from very early in life. I would run around the room making helicopter sounds but no one believed me. Now people have the common decency to see me for what I am, a fully fledged apache attack helicopter I feel like society has finally accepted me. Thanks for never giving up the fight guys.
.What gender attack helicopter are you, may I ask?

[auslizard]

What gender attack helicopter are you, may I ask?

I like to to change it up sir! I always assosiated Monday with being male though that's like a rule.

[auslizard]

One phrase comes to mind regarding all of these things......Divide and conquer.

[RANDLOVER]

Seems to be a re-write of thousands of years of human history, biology & psychology, millions of years if you include the animal kingdom. Sounds like "fake news" and "alternative facts".

I can't wait to see what the new "preferred" words for the following would be: ball bearings, grease nipples, lift shafts, as they can all be construed to have gender connotations.

Next they'll be telling people they have been "blessed" with a disability.

[goingbush]

It will cost the electrical industry millions to relabel & re catalogue their inventories of male & female connectors .

[Homestar]

Seems to be a re-write of thousands of years of human history, biology & psychology, millions of years if you include the animal kingdom. Sounds like "fake news" and "alternative facts".

I can't wait to see what the new "preferred" words for the following would be: ball bearings, grease nipples, lift shafts, as they can all be construed to have gender connotations.

Next they'll be telling people they have been "blessed" with a disability.

Homosexuality was common and considered normal thousands of years ago, it only became taboo when a certain book that can't be discussed here became popular. Nothing is being rewritten or new. Today is just redressing the last 2000 years of repression IMO.

[Slunnie]

Homosexuality was common and considered normal thousands of years ago, it only became taboo when a certain book that can't be discussed here became popular. Nothing is being rewritten or new. Today is just redressing the last 2000 years of repression IMO.

Its common in the animal world. I'm sure I read somewhere that it was a natural part of maintaining gender balance. Some species, I think it was guppies (and live bearing fish) can even change genders when in a rich single gendered environment.

[Ferret]

... Next they'll be telling people they have been "blessed" with a disability.

Already goes on.

Activistists that identify as Deaf (note the capital D) oppose the fitting of medical devices to deaf children on the basis they will miss out on being deaf.

[DiscoMick]

My FIL, who is semi-deaf, knows deaf people who think using sign language is a superior form of communication and feel sorry for people with hearing.

[cuppabillytea]

So X and Y chromosomes are not a thing anymore?!
My DNA is a LIE.
You must be a Z. Come to think of it; I think you are a 'Z'. Hope you're not offended.[bigwhistle]

[Mick_Marsh]

You must be a Z. Come to think of it; I think you are a 'Z'. Hope you're not offended.[bigwhistle]
I identify with "L" and "#".

[ramblingboy42]

If there is a normal, then there must also be an abnormal. So it is normal for some to be abnormal
As JC said, let those who are without sin cast the first stones.

I tried to find this JC in the members list.

What thread did he say that in?

[bee utey]

I tried to find this JC in the members list.

What thread did he say that in?

What, you didn't know DM is referring to the esteemed Justin Cooper? [biggrin]

[rangieman]

What, you didn't know DM is referring to the esteemed Justin Cooper? [biggrin]
And he says he is not[bighmmm]
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DchPUl2f_4w)

[cuppabillytea]

I identify with "L" and "#".
Poor chap. You must cop some terrible abuse.


I tried to find this JC in the members list.

What thread did he say that in?
I try to keep a low profile.

[Ferret]

Poor chap. You must cop some terrible abuse...

Standby for the #L movement

[ramblingboy42]

HE IS THE MESSIAH............

[auslizard]

I remember watching an interview with Yuri Bezmenov a couple of decades ago and it was bloody scary. I kept that in the back of my mind when I went to uni and was amazed at the level of closeted thinking. It seems since then Yuri’s “useful idiots” have been increasing exponentially and his warnings have come to nought....

twas a real eye opener wasn't it. Not many have the stomach to down the full interview.

[cripesamighty]

Luckily, along with all of his full interviews, there are quite a few of the important bits on YouTube now, which is usually enough to pique people's interest. I always tell people to Google "Yuri Bezmenov Useful Idiots". They can easily find 15min to 30min clips of his famous interview where he discussed the stages of a Communist takeover of a country and the useful idiots who facilitate it - and their eventual fate!

[EastFreo]

Have to say I felt it was all getting more than just a little crazy when I started to see the term “cis gender”. Had to look it up.

Basically it means someone who identifies with the sex they were assigned at birth.

So basically I am cis gender but not sure how much I am going to use the term!

[cripesamighty]

To translate it for you, anything Cis-gendered is the Loony Left's way of talking about straight people (usually white) and is usually delivered as an insult. Basically, I've never used the term at all except once when defending myself against a couple of idiots I ran into at uni when visiting some friends who still work there (both in the sciences and social sciences).

Twice in the last year I have been called either sexist or a male chauvinist when opening the door for some students on the way either out of, or into a building on campus. My reply was 'I was taught manners when I grew up, and see those people behind you? I held the door for them too'. Blank stares as they turned around and saw some other people behind them (on the first occasion one waved and another gave them the finger). I notice these same dropkicks aren't protesting against sexism in Yemen or Saudi Arabia! Welcome to the brave new world where micro-aggressions are a thing.

[trout1105]

They don't expect you to know but once pointed out prefer you to acknowledge it if that's part of the conversation being had but It almost never comes up in normal conversation anyway - how often do you start a conversation with 'So you a bloke or a sheila?'

It's not about minorities ruling anything - do you have any idea how hard it is to grow up being different? Any idea what it's like to be discriminated against every day because you don't fit into a category that generally middle aged white males made for people in the first place and have demanded the population to abide by for centuries? I'd suggest if you grew up as a white heterosexual male in Australia then you'd have no idea. If you think for a second that anyone from the LGBTIQ community rules anything then you're clearly out of touch with the world - people like you continue to mock their chosen lifestyles and actively discriminate against them. Just because it is different to how you view the world doesn't make it wrong or unacceptable.

Rant over, but 'm personally sick of how intolerant our society continues to be.

It's a brave new world - get on board.

I couldnt care less if someone is gay, It doesn't bother me at all.
I do however deeply care that those of us that are not gay are forced to change the way we use the English language because of the gay peoples lifestyle choices.
"It's a brave new World, Get aboard" What a load of old cobblers.
Freedom of speech is Far more important than ANYONE'S agenda and this "Censorship" being forced upon society by these PC zealots is just the thin edge of the wedge.

Millions of men and women have died defending our rights to free speech So I am buggered if I am going to support the ideologies of this PC brigade that are slowly erroding my, my kids and my grandkids rights to be able to say what they think without censorship.

How on earth can it be a brave new world when people are constantly being told what to think and what to say, I don't know about you But concept is verry Un Australian to Me.

[DAMINK]

I tried to explain a video i watched where a woman Person said they want to be identified as they or them.
Guess what i found the video.

Enjoy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocD5MppvqnM&t=471s

Enjoy.

[Homestar]

I couldnt care less if someone is gay, It doesn't bother me at all.
I do however deeply care that those of us that are not gay are forced to change the way we use the English language because of the gay peoples lifestyle choices.
"It's a brave new World, Get aboard" What a load of old cobblers.
Freedom of speech is Far more important than ANYONE'S agenda and this "Censorship" being forced upon society by these PC zealots is just the thin edge of the wedge.

Millions of men and women have died defending our rights to free speech So I am buggered if I am going to support the ideologies of this PC brigade that are slowly erroding my, my kids and my grandkids rights to be able to say what they think without censorship.

How on earth can it be a brave new world when people are constantly being told what to think and what to say, I don't know about you But concept is verry Un Australian to Me.

So you call what you say here free speech but deny someone else the same right? Hmmm, interesting....

[bee utey]

Australia doesn't have laws guaranteeing free speech. And not thinking and just blurting out anything that comes to mind isn't a sign of "Ozzie values", just crass insensitivity. The old idea of shouting "FIRE" in a crowded theatre comes to mind. Words have consequences and some are best left unsaid.

[cripesamighty]

What I would consider respect for others has been hijacked in today’s day and age to have very narrow meanings, and if you don’t adhere to an ever changing social landscape you are vilified - especially white males.

When I was at uni I dealt with lots of indigenous students and the first thing I knocked out of them was to ‘stay a victim’. That mentality is totally corrosive to a culture. I learnt that from watching Dr Thomas Sowell more than 20 yeats ago. Rather than give someone a fish and feed them for a day, teach them to fish and transform their lives instead.

You are battling against the tide I’m afraid (not that you shouldn’t try of course), as the Uni’s are where a lot of this stupidity originates and then spills out and infests everyday life. When I said, welcome to this new paradigm, I was being entirely facetious! Personally, I haven’t given up but I do try to battle it with humour. Sometimes that doesn’t happen, but at least I’m giving it a red hot go.

[Slunnie]

Australia doesn't have laws guaranteeing free speech. And not thinking and just blurting out anything that comes to mind isn't a sign of "Ozzie values", just crass insensitivity. The old idea of shouting "FIRE" in a crowded theatre comes to mind. Words have consequences and some are best left unsaid.

Absolutely agree. Free speech in Australia is a fallacy, and Inc has the right to host or not host whatever he likes on this forum, so there is no free speech in this forum either. But to those who think they are free to say whatever they like also need to realise that they also need to bear the consequence of what they say based on everybody elses ability to react and respond.

What is an Aussie value. Its always been to look after your mate, whoever that may be. It has never been anything less for a true Australian.

[bee utey]

What I would consider respect for others has been hijacked in today’s day and age to have very narrow meanings, and if you don’t adhere to an ever changing social landscape you are vilified - especially white males.

When I was at uni I dealt with lots of indigenous students and the first thing I knocked out of them was to ‘stay a victim’. That mentality is totally corrosive to a culture. I learnt that from watching Dr Thomas Sowell more than 20 yeats ago. Rather than give someone a fish and feed them for a day, teach them to fish and transform their lives instead.

You are battling against the tide I’m afraid (not that you shouldn’t try of course), as the Uni’s are where a lot of this stupidity originates and then spills out and infests everyday life. When I said, welcome to this new paradigm, I was being entirely facetious! Personally, I haven’t given up but I do try to battle it with humour. Sometimes that doesn’t happen, but at least I’m giving it a red hot go.

Many white males have been getting away with spouting thoughtless crap for aeons, 'bout time they got called out on it. "Please engage brain before putting mouth into gear" was a truism even when I was a little white boy. [biggrin]

[cripesamighty]

I totally agree with you that it used to be, but you obviously haven’t been listening to the latest batch of feminists. It’s not about gender parity or equality anymore, but male bashing. Please tell me that getting #KillAllMen to trend on Twitter is in any way sensible or useful?

[bee utey]

I totally agree with you that it used to be, but you obviously haven’t been listening to the latest batch of feminists. It’s not about gender parity or equality anymore, but male bashing. Please tell me that getting #KillAllMen to trend on Twitter is in any way sensible or useful?

A noisy minority on platforms promoting click bait, anyway who goes on twitface to find out anything useful? The feminists I read (on their own blogs) aren't deranged monsters looking to spill Innocent White Man blood.

[martnH]

Because the good guys (human right groups, social justice etc..) run out of enemies....And they are having a good thorough look at us hahhahaha
I couldnt care less if someone is gay, It doesn't bother me at all.
I do however deeply care that those of us that are not gay are forced to change the way we use the English language because of the gay peoples lifestyle choices.
"It's a brave new World, Get aboard" What a load of old cobblers.
Freedom of speech is Far more important than ANYONE'S agenda and this "Censorship" being forced upon society by these PC zealots is just the thin edge of the wedge.

Millions of men and women have died defending our rights to free speech So I am buggered if I am going to support the ideologies of this PC brigade that are slowly erroding my, my kids and my grandkids rights to be able to say what they think without censorship.

How on earth can it be a brave new world when people are constantly being told what to think and what to say, I don't know about you But concept is verry Un Australian to Me.

[cripesamighty]

I look at moderate Feminists online too and desperately wish they could get their message out. Unfortunately, they are rarely given a platform and are vastly outnumbered online and at protests by people like Clementine Ford. Been to Sydney Uni lately?

There are lot's of normal regular feminists out there (I subscribe to a couple online) who want "equal opportunities for women", rather than treating women as victims, or giving them a free ride, or getting into sadistic male bashing - BUT, I bet you any money you like, most people couldn't name a single one.

[DiscoMick]

We have never had free speech in Australia. Captain Phillip had the right to execute and every law passed since then has confirmed that the idea of free speech is a mirage.
Free speech doesn't mean we have to right to insult people and then claim it was just a joke either.
We don't have a Bill of Rights and numerous laws limit what we can say and do.
This has nothing to do with feminism or grumpy old white men either, it just is what it is.

[Tins]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that threads like this should go straight to CA?

[auslizard]

1984 anyone?

[trout1105]

1984 anyone?

It is getting that way Mate.

[Mick_Marsh]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that threads like this should go straight to CA?
There is nothing stopping you starting a thread in CA.
Why not do it. That way you can go to town politically, something you cannot do here.

[akula]

One phrase comes to mind regarding all of these things......Divide and conquer.


The end-goal of identity politics.

[Tins]

Any deviation from the political line was not tolerated and was marked down ‘appropriately’. Seems nothing has changed

Not at all. The situation is far, far worse now. Universities are now simply engines for indoctrination. Witness how many people who are now denied the right to speak, to address groups due to their beliefs which run contrary to the "groupthink" that passes for discussion these days. Universities were/are supposed to be places that challenge, that encourage thought and debate. How does that occur when only people of the "left" are allowed to speak? Everyone agreeing with each other is NOT learning. It advances nothing. People simply join together to shout down dissenting voices.

Eric Arthur Blair was right. His "1984" is becoming more and more prophetic. This particular thread goes some way towards proving it.

[Tins]

There is nothing stopping you starting a thread in CA.
Why not do it. That way you can go to town politically, something you cannot do here.

Yes there is, and you know it. I refuse to join the CA BS. I see no point in arguing with zealots.

[Eevo]

i identify as a financially rich person, trapped in a poor persons bank account.

[ozscott]

I identify as a meat popsicle. Now what's CA?

Cheers

[LRJim]

I identify as a meat popsicle. Now what's CA?

CheersCurrent affairs section, apparently you have to sell your soul to mick to join [emoji1]
Cheers Jim

[incisor]

you got some facts to back this opinion up or are you just parroting shock jock drivel ?



Not at all. The situation is far, far worse now. Universities are now simply engines for indoctrination. Witness how many people who are now denied the right to speak, to address groups due to their beliefs which run contrary to the "groupthink" that passes for discussion these days. Universities were/are supposed to be places that challenge, that encourage thought and debate. How does that occur when only people of the "left" are allowed to speak? Everyone agreeing with each other is NOT learning. It advances nothing. People simply join together to shout down dissenting voices.

Eric Arthur Blair was right. His "1984" is becoming more and more prophetic. This particular thread goes some way towards proving it.

[Ferret]

Current affairs section, apparently you have to sell your soul to mick to join [emoji1]

Trust me, from my experience Mr Marsh pays bugger all for souls.

[Mick_Marsh]

you got some facts to back this opinion up or are you just parroting shock jock drivel ?
Maybe the Brisbane unis haven't caught up to the Melbourne unis yet.
There was some discussion on this in the media and amongst friends and colleagues some time ago. It's even in primary schools, an area I have had some experience in. It appears that people expressing their views in a forum are now shouted down by people with an opposing view.
I wont post it up as it will be political.

[Mick_Marsh]

Trust me, from my experience Mr Marsh pays bugger all for souls.
All I require is a signature in blood on the bottom of the contract.

[Gordie]

Trust me, from my experience Mr Marsh pays bugger all for souls.He won't pay anything, he will just jump up onto the hickory stump and challenge you to a fiddle-duel.

[Ferret]

He won't pay anything, he will just jump up onto the hickory stump and challenge you to a fiddle-duel.

Nah, your thinking of Old Nick, not old Mick.

By the way, what gender is Old Nick because I have a photo of him from an old statue in Stirling Castle, Scotland. Notice the boobs and other gear. Been under going a bit of gender reassignment I reckon.

145206

[Tins]

you got some facts to back this opinion up or are you just parroting shock jock drivel ?

If you believe that I'm influenced by shock jocks, then you need to spend more time getting to know the people who pay you. I have no idea what a shock jock thinks, as I refuse to listen to them.

As to facts: they are reported pretty much every day. Bjorn Lomberg cannot speak. Bettina Arndt cannot speak. Milo Yiannopolous cannot speak. Christopher Monckton cannot speak. I can go on, at length if needed. The issue is NOT whether you agree with people like this. The issue is that they have as much right to speak as anyone else.

If you truly want to debate me on this topic, I suggest we do it off list. I look forward to it.

[Tins]

Sometimes I believe that this: "Unless otherwise stated, this post is the opinion of Mick_Marsh and should be read accordingly." is the smartest part of your political posts; and then you say this, which seems quite smart:


It appears that people expressing their views in a forum are now shouted down by people with an opposing view.


Now, I am unsure what forums, or opinions, you refer to, but I "contribute" to many forums, and that has been my experience as well, so perhaps groupthink can come from both directions.

I don't know about you, but I value diversity above almost anything else. It would be a dull life otherwise.

[Tins]

All I require is a signature in blood on the bottom of the contract.

OK if it's your blood?

[Tins]

Current affairs section, apparently you have to sell your soul to mick to join [emoji1]
Cheers Jim

See, that's where I'm in trouble... I sold mine years ago. Fat lot of good it did me. That Powerball thing never worked.

As for CA. Do you really want to?? Plenty of sites and blogs out there, with "really smart people" to debate. Everyone here has a LR, which probably disqualifies them.

[Mick_Marsh]

Yeah, John, by forum, I meant the traditional meaning.

a place where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged
You know, hall, theatre, auditorium.

The last shout down I observed in Melbourne was on the 7th of September IIRC.

[Tins]

Yeah, John, by forum, I meant the traditional meaning.



The "traditional meaning" occurred around 2000 years ago, Mick. Didn't know you spoke Latin. However, this place works well as a modern equivalent, provided we all allow for each other, something that has been increasingly missing recently, sadly. Shouting down, personal abuse, these are more prevalent these days ( I got some, but those that threw it mean nothing to me ), and it's the job of you, and the other mods, to police it, and you aren't, at least not in my opinion.

This thread proves it. 5 years ago this thread wouldn't have seen the light of day in General Chat. Fine. If the standards have lapsed, then let me post things that I want to. But, I get "warned" for a silly joke about SHY. Warned by you. You want it both ways, and that is doomed to fail.

Just my 2c worth.

[Mick_Marsh]

and it's the job of you, and the other mods, to police it, and you aren't, at least not in my opinion.

This thread proves it. 5 years ago this thread wouldn't have seen the light of day in General Chat. Fine. If the standards have lapsed, then let me post things that I want to. But, I get "warned" for a silly joke about SHY. Warned by you. You want it both ways, and that is doomed to fail.

Just my 2c worth.
2c ain't legal tender no more.
We (moderators) can only act upon reported items. Did you report anything from this thread that was not acted upon? If so, what?
When a post is reported, one moderator cannot act on it alone. There must be some form of consensus before it is acted upon. If you were smacked, two or more moderators agreed it was deserved.
If you think a post is political, report it.

To emphasise this "IF YOU THINK A POST CONTRAVENES THE RULES, REPORT IT".

[Tins]

2c ain't legal tender no more.
We (moderators) can only act upon reported items. Did you report anything from this thread that was not acted upon? If so, what?
When a post is reported, one moderator cannot act on it alone. There must be some form of consensus before it is acted upon. If you were smacked, two or more moderators agreed it was deserved.
If you think a post is political, report it.

To emphasise this "IF YOU THINK A POST CONTRAVENES THE RULES, REPORT IT".

Quoting the rules? Gee Mick, you make far more sense around the fire.

In answer to your question, YES, I did report this thread ( "If so, what?" Are you serious? This thread has political undertones all through it). Perhaps the Mod pen doesn't function the way you think. I reported it on October 10. I accept that my report may not be acted upon in a way that I like, but don't suggest I didn't make the report. That just demeans the whole Mod process.

I believe that there was sufficient abuse of belief, abuse of public figures in this thread to require it to be moved to CA. Is that clear enough for you? I don't expect or need the Mods to agree with me, but I would like a response from the Mods in general, seeing as how "consensus" is your standard, as you have stated.

Perhaps further debate should be 'off list'.

[incisor]

If you believe that I'm influenced by shock jocks, then you need to spend more time getting to know the people who pay you. I have no idea what a shock jock thinks, as I refuse to listen to them.

As to facts: they are reported pretty much every day. Bjorn Lomberg cannot speak. Bettina Arndt cannot speak. Milo Yiannopolous cannot speak. Christopher Monckton cannot speak. I can go on, at length if needed. The issue is NOT whether you agree with people like this. The issue is that they have as much right to speak as anyone else.

If you truly want to debate me on this topic, I suggest we do it off list. I look forward to it.

I don't know what your influenced by...

I simply asked a question in an attempt to find out where your coming from.. because it's a line often touted by those you say you don't listen to.

[incisor]

I believe that there was sufficient abuse of belief, abuse of public figures in this thread to require it to be moved to CA. Is that clear enough for you? I don't expect or need the Mods to agree with me, but I would like a response from the Mods in general, seeing as how "consensus" is your standard, as you have stated.

Perhaps further debate should be 'off list'.

the fact that the thread is still here means that so far the consensus is that it is within the guidelines at this point or that consensus hasn't been achieved as yet and the thread hasn't reached the point where it needs to be taken from public view until it is reached.

[Tins]

I don't know what your influenced by...

I simply asked a question in an attempt to find out where your coming from.. because it's a line often touted by those you say you don't listen to.

It's a line "touted" by around 50% or more of the population, Dave. Because you don't see it doesn't make it any less valid.

The "question" was a poor one, as you have had occasion to know "where I am coming from" for some time now. I guess that lack might tell us how much you pay attention. Your choice, of course, but it makes me ask; why did you choose to bob in here? You don't usually.

[incisor]

It's a line "touted" by around 50% or more of the population, Dave. Because you don't see it doesn't make it any less valid.

The "question" was a poor one, as you have had occasion to know "where I am coming from" for some time now. I guess that lack might tell us how much you pay attention. Your choice, of course, but it makes me ask; why did you choose to bob in here? You don't usually.

I was trying to work out your agenda to be frank... and I've found it thanks.

enjoy your night....

[Eevo]

everyone is entitled to their beliefs
i believe there are two genders
i believe i'll have another drink

[Tins]

the fact that the thread is still here means that so far the consensus is that it is within the guidelines at this point or that consensus hasn't been achieved as yet and the thread hasn't reached the point where it needs to be taken from public view until it is reached.

Fine, Dave. I don't have a problem with that, as a perusal of what I have said will reveal. However, Mick's suggestion that I should "report the thread" suggests he was unaware that I had. Why is that so hard to understand?

What's more, why does it take something like this to let us know that it's a "consensus" as to whether a thread is within guidelines? What is the point of "guidelines" if they are consensus based? Who chooses what the "consensus" is? Who votes for the Mods who form this "consensus"?

Here's a thought: How about some rules? Clearly defined, non negotiable rules? Nothing I've seen so far suggests that this concept has been considered.

[Tins]

I was trying to work out your agenda to be frank... and I've found it thanks.

enjoy your night....

Oh dear.. My agenda??? Fairness in debate, if you must find one. It's all I have ever asked for. It is what I have never found.

[incisor]

Fine, Dave. I don't have a problem with that, as a perusal of what I have said will reveal. However, Mick's suggestion that I should "report the thread" suggests he was unaware that I had. Why is that so hard to understand?


no one had commented on the report and I personally didn't see it till I went specifically looking for it so for whatever reason the report didn't generate any heat shall we say.



What's more, why does it take something like this to let us know that it's a "consensus" as to whether a thread is within guidelines? What is the point of "guidelines" if they are consensus based? Who chooses what the "consensus" is? Who votes for the Mods who form this "consensus"?

Here's a thought: How about some rules? Clearly defined, non negotiable rules? Nothing I've seen so far suggests that this concept has been considered.

actually we have heaps of guidelines , some are definitely not negotiable, and some that are seen to be borderline, such as this thread, are subject to the consensus thing.

sometimes consensus is hard to achieve as there is a very broad spectrum of outlooks held by the various mods and admins

anyone that thinks they are sycophants is way way way off the mark

up until a few years ago things were very authoritarian and arbitrary but there was a rebellion of sorts

as a result the mods and admins decided that we would try to perfect a less arbitrary approach, and that brings us to were we are today.

from where I am sitting the place runs a lot smoother than it used to but it certainly isn't perfect by any means as sometimes things simply don't or can't happen quickly enough for my liking

it is a work in progress, as it always has been.

if you notice personal attacks report them, that way that have to be discussed by the mods.

I leave the day to day moderation to them, unless something like this catches my eye, as I am usually too busy trying to keep the place running in the background etc etc etc

railing against the system is fine, giving me crap is fine, it's worries me naught.

start giving the volunteers that give endlessly of their time to keep this place on the tracks a hard time and you'll find I'm not so understanding.

cheers

[Mick_Marsh]

Fine, Dave. I don't have a problem with that, as a perusal of what I have said will reveal. However, Mick's suggestion that I should "report the thread" suggests he was unaware that I had. Why is that so hard to understand?
Ah, John, when a post is reported, it usually results in in some action taken against the poster. I was aware you had reported a post. This is the one you reported:

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that threads like this should go straight to CA?
Can you please advise which rule has been broken so points can be awarded to the poster.

John, you are entitled to your opinion. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. If an opinion offends you so much, don't try to get that opinion removed, shouted down. Move on.
You suggest a post has contravened the rules. Find THAT POST and report it.

[grey_ghost]

It is my opinion that I love my Land Rovers. They are all different, behave differently - but I love them anyway. [emoji3]

[cripesamighty]

Had dinner with a couple of old uni friends who are now academics in the Humanities. Both work out of state so it was nice to catch up with them and their partners over a bottle of wine or three. They have been getting more and more frustrated with the increasing extremism in their respected fields and the stifling of reasoned discussion. It's getting so they can't do certain research for fear of upsetting the now radicalised 'status quo'.

Most people commenting in this thread want what's best for the average person out there, regardless of colour, creed, sexual orientation, etc because that is pretty much the Australian way. Unfortunately, ideas like Equal Rights, Feminism, Gender Equality, etc, have now been hijacked by radicals who are holed up in Academia, and they have totally bastardised these terms out of all proportion to what the average person thinks they mean. The links below, were discussed last night, and both my friends' comment were - wish I had thought of doing that! Sadly, this is the state of affairs in certain Social Science fields at the moment and that's not a good thing. I hope those three academics below get more exposure so people are aware of the slippery slope we are on, and hold those responsible to account.


Two links with a quick overview of what these three acadmeics did....
Fake academic scandal: Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf words used in embarrassing journal hoax | The West Australian (https://thewest.com.au/news/world/fake-academic-scandal-adolf-hitlers-mein-kampf-words-used-in-embarrassing-journal-hoax-ng-b88979974z)

Academics: Peer-reviewed journals prove bias by publishing fake studies (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/10/10/grievance-studies-academia-fake-feminist-hypatia-mein-kampf-racism-column/1575219002/)


A more in-depth article with their methodology and their reasoning...
Academic Grievance Studies and the Corruption of Scholarship - Areo (https://areomagazine.com/2018/10/02/academic-grievance-studies-and-the-corruption-of-scholarship/)

[Arapiles]

They aren't a lie, they just don't 100% guarantee the expected binary outcome.

There's also more combinations than XY or XX - I thought that was fairly general knowledge?

[Arapiles]

What nonsense. He has only been ridiculed by ideologues. He says that gender is not a social construct, and he is absolutely correct.

Sorry, by definition "gender" is a social construct. Sex is biological, and the use of "gender" on forms when they mean "sex" may have been well-meaning but is actually wrong. I sometimes correct the forms ...

[Arapiles]

Already goes on.

Activistists that identify as Deaf (note the capital D) oppose the fitting of medical devices to deaf children on the basis they will miss out on being deaf.

Used to, apparently, or less so now ... for the record, I have a hearing loss and wear hearing aids.

Edit: apparently it was cochlear implants that were what some deaf people objected to:

Deaf Culture and Cochlear Implants: Genocide or Salvation? | Time (http://time.com/76154/deaf-culture-cochlear-implants/)

[travelrover]

Sorry, by definition "gender" is a social construct. Sex is biological, and the use of "gender" on forms when they mean "sex" may have been well-meaning but is actually wrong. I sometimes correct the forms ...

You may wish to let the RMS know, they are spending around $500,000 of tax payers money updating their ‘drives’ software to be able to handle gender neutral as a third option. Am sure other Gov departments are spending big time on similar projects!

[Arapiles]

You may wish to let the RMS know, they are spending around $500,000 of tax payers money updating their ‘drives’ software to be able to handle gender neutral as a third option. Am sure other Gov departments are spending big time on similar projects!

Wouldn't surprise me. "Sex" means male or female, or intersex for that matter (i.e., XXY, X0). Gender is "masculine", "feminine" and the other genders. Maybe the RMS do actually want to know what gender people assign to themselves, rather than their sex?

[travelrover]

Wouldn't surprise me. "Sex" means male or female, or intersex for that matter (i.e., XXY, X0). Gender is "masculine", "feminine" and the other genders. Maybe the RMS do actually want to know what gender people assign to themselves, rather than their sex?

Hi Arapiles. Maybe they do want to know but interestingly there is no sex/gender on a NSW drivers license.

[Arapiles]

Hi Arapiles. Maybe they do want to know but interestingly there is no sex/gender on a NSW drivers license.

Then you'd have to wonder what the purpose of collecting the information is!

[Eevo]

Hi Arapiles. Maybe they do want to know but interestingly there is no sex/gender on a NSW drivers license.

wasnt it only recently removed?

[travelrover]

Then you'd have to wonder what the purpose of collecting the information is!

Its the same database the police use so there could be a number of motives I guess.

@ Eevo, not sure about that detail on the drivers license. I dont recall noticing it but then i dont recall ever having looked for it! How many people notice there are three separate unique numbers on them (NSW anyway) now days (front and back)? I guess fire arms and boating licences would be the same.

[101 Ron]

In the army many years ago this was all very easy to sort out.
If you were not certain of a persons orientation...………...go watch them take a squirt.
If they stood up...…..male
If they hunched over....female
Naturally Its easy and the way the real world works.
How a person wants to present themselves to the world is another matter.
I may be pollically incorrect and old fashion, its simple , its nature, its real world and besides its all to hard to keep up to the constant changing letters IGBlCXYZ or what ever it is now.
In the old days it it was a poofer or a lesso…...simple.

[carjunkieanon]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mckinnon-is-first-transgender-woman-to-win-world-title/

[DiscoMick]

Hi Arapiles. Maybe they do want to know but interestingly there is no sex/gender on a NSW drivers license.
My QLD licence still has M on it, but we're a bit behind the gender neutral bandwagon up here, I guess.

It used to be funny marking class rolls at the university in Thailand. You would say a male name and the most beautiful person in the room would stand up. Everyone would have a giggle, including me, and we'd move on.

[cripesamighty]

I found this clip of Camille Paglia after a quick YouTube search (links to other clips of hers too) who has studied this topic extensively (since the 1960’s) and this is her take on things;

“Mainstreaming gender fluidity always occurs in the late stages of civilisations, just before societal collapse.”

Let’s hope she is wrong!

YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5WaXgEjBz8)

[DiscoMick]

I have heard people claim it is normal for about 10% of a population to be gender fluid, but I have no idea how that could be confirmed.

[Mick_Marsh]

I found this clip of Camille Paglia after a quick YouTube search...........
Oh, some of Camille's quotes:

If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts.

There is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack the Ripper.

Let's get rid of Infirmary Feminism, with its bedlam of bellyachers, anorexics, bulimics, depressives, rape victims, and incest survivors. Feminism has become a catch-all vegetable drawer where bunches of clingy sob sisters can store their mouldy neuroses.

Society is a system of inherited forms reducing our humiliating passivity to nature. We may alter these forms, slowly or suddenly, but no change in society will change nature.

Western culture from the start has swerved from femaleness. The last western society to worship female powers was Minoan Crete. And significantly, that fell and did not rise again.

Here Wikipedia entry looks very interesting. I'll read that on the weekend.

[travelrover]

I found this clip of Camille Paglia after a quick YouTube search (links to other clips of hers too) who has studied this topic extensively (since the 1960’s) and this is her take on things;

“Mainstreaming gender fluidity always occurs in the late stages of civilisations, just before societal collapse.”

Let’s hope she is wrong!

YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5WaXgEjBz8)Very interesting stuff.... i think she sums it up well! Scary prospect for our civilisation

[cripesamighty]

I read several books (different authors) about a decade ago that discussed what sort of societal norms take hold at the tail end of civilisations. Hers was just the first link I saw. There are a number of others who have written about this if you do a quick search. Camille has been arguing about how Feminism has been hijacked since the late 1960’s. From what I gather, she is all for giving women equal opportunities as men to pursue whatever they choose to do, but without bringing down society in the process. For instance, one of her role models growing up was Amelia Earhart.

[cripesamighty]

Mick, some quotes from many of the women that Camille has had arguments with in the past (by her own words, some have been screaming matches) and why she doesn’t see eye to eye with them.


“Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession… The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn’t be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that.” — Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois

“The nuclear family must be destroyed… Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process.” — Linda Gordon

“All men are rapists and that’s all they are” — Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore’s Presidential Campaign.)

“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -– Valerie Solanas

“I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” — Andrea Dworkin

“We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage.” — Robin Morgan

“Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice.” — Ti-Grace Atkinson

“Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice.” — Andrea Dworkin

“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” — Catherine MacKinnon

“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart

“Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release.” — Germaine Greer.

“The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness…can be trained to do most things.” — Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men)

I have little sympathy for Men. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don’t even need to shrug. I simply don’t care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don’t matter.” — Marilyn French

“The most merciful thing a large family can do to one of its infant members is to kill it.” — Margaret Sanger

“Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women’s bodies.” — Andrea Dworkin

“In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them” (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College, and associate director of the school’s Center for Research on Woman).

“If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males.” –Mary Daly

“The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men…. All of history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women. (from “The Declaration of Feminism,” November, 1971).

[Mick_Marsh]

Oh, dear........

Mind you, I've met some that fit this quote:
“The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness…can be trained to do most things.”

[biggin]

What would become of these “ladies” pathetic little lives if they didn’t have men to abuse?

[bee utey]

Funny how my wife and I know a large number of women in groups we are members of who aren't the slightest bit mental about men. Looks like there are still some easily triggered blokes about that hyperventilate about a tiny minority of bad people and carry on about how they're a threat to society as they know it.

[cripesamighty]

Most women I know don't hyperventilate either - except when I mix in Uni circles. Then it's a different story altogether. I have friends in the Sciences as well as Humanities and get to meet all sorts of interesting people through them, many with very left field ideas. You don't mix the right circles obviously! Ha ha.

[bee utey]

Most of the radicals that I, my wife or my son knew during our separate times at different unis got married, had kids and became boringly conventional. There aren't too many older radicals around here.

[cripesamighty]

Most, but not all. There are a more than a few left. The problem of course is they pass it on to the next generation. I will see if I can dig up some photos of the last uni party I went to earlier this year where a senior Gender Studies lecturer was wearing a T-shirt that said 'all men are rapists'. Like I said, we obviously mix in different circles!

[carjunkieanon]

My wife seems to be happy enough being married to me.

I'm delighted to be married to her. Wonderful woman. Feel thankful every day.

I should add, she even tolerates the Land Rover without really complaining about it or rolling her eyes. Just sighs and finds the money in the budget to pay for it. I guess that shows how much she loves me.

[cripesamighty]

Had a fun dinner party last night. Caught up with two uni friends who have PhD’s in Biology and one of their sisters who has a PhD in Post Modernism. Was funny watching two sisters arguing from vastly different viewpoints about life, the universe and everything. Am going to catch up with all my first cousins this arvo on the anniversary of my cousins passing (on mums side) and will hang out with another spectrum of the population. There will be mullets as far as the eyes can see! They are the perfect brain detox as they are so down to earth. Gotta love family!

[Arapiles]

Most, but not all. There are a more than a few left. The problem of course is they pass it on to the next generation. I will see if I can dig up some photos of the last uni party I went to earlier this year where a senior Gender Studies lecturer was wearing a T-shirt that said 'all men are rapists'. Like I said, we obviously mix in different circles!

Interesting ... by the time I got to Honours I was the only male in an Honours/Masters tutorial group that was largely about gender, and they weren't the least like that.

[cripesamighty]

Arapiles, different institutions are held in regard for different things. My Left leaning uni - world class in some areas (science), but also did a great job of hounding a lot of guys out of their Womens Studies streams. One of the blokes I worked with on campus was doing several Womens studies subjects in his final year as preparation before starting Honours. We used to catch up for lunch and he would tell me about his latest adventure in his classes. Lots of 'interesting' discussions were had in tutorials, and at the end of his first semester, the lecturer thanked him profusely for sticking with it as her classes were becoming a close minded echo chamber. If you want, PM me and I will tell you what uni I went to, and then the penny will drop!

[martnH]

All universities should be left
Otherwise **** me. What's the point of working in academia. Okay maybe a scholar can be right wing in some views but overall left. As we believe in sharing knowledge, rational thinking and education.

I was a lecturer for 5 years. I could have earned more if working in industry But no I didn't go to the dark side but stayee in public sector doing research and some teaching. Money was not my priority at that time.

Helping others is core to the left. Generally we believe that we can help ourselves by building a functioning society that helps all. This is core to left wing thinking. As least to me.

I have done research on the cost effectiveness of drugs for the department of health and ageing, help PBS list drugs, beat the living **** out of big pharmaceutical companies. It was fun at a time. I could have worked for the pharmas :D

High intelligence, low salaries and money being less of a priority, causes universities to be left wing.

Statistically rich people and the very poor are more likely right wing.

Cheers
Martin

[biggin]

No tickets on yourself then?
Still on the public teat though.
And not a hint of political comment.

[cripesamighty]

There is a difference between left wing ‘altruism’ at uni (which I agree with), vs ‘extreme’ left (and right) wing ‘lets crash the system down around everyone’s ears’, which doesn’t do anybody any good in the short or long term.

[cuppabillytea]

Most of the radicals that I, my wife or my son knew during our separate times at different unis got married, had kids and became boringly conventional. There aren't too many older radicals around here.
I'm an old Radical, although, not a Free Radical.:unsure:

[Arapiles]

Arapiles, different institutions are held in regard for different things. My Left leaning uni - world class in some areas (science), but also did a great job of hounding a lot of guys out of their Womens Studies streams. One of the blokes I worked with on campus was doing several Womens studies subjects in his final year as preparation before starting Honours. We used to catch up for lunch and he would tell me about his latest adventure in his classes. Lots of 'interesting' discussions were had in tutorials, and at the end of his first semester, the lecturer thanked him profusely for sticking with it as her classes were becoming a close minded echo chamber. If you want, PM me and I will tell you what uni I went to, and then the penny will drop!

I was a bit like that - there weren't many males doing my degree ...