landrovers on hold?

[prelude]

I just came across this yesterday: Jaguar halts factory production | LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/feed/news/jaguar-halts-factory-production-2266793) If you ask me, this is not good news. I hope the company does not die before the new defender comes out :(

-P

[Homestar]

Global sales of most vehicles are down at the moment. If you think JLR have issues, go check out Fords issues at the moment - they have a $25 billion hole in their budget at the moment.

It could be just the opportunity to announce the Defender isn’t going ahead - I’ve always said I’ll believe it when I see it and the continued blow outs of the release date make me think they are dragging this out until everyone loses interest before axing the idea.

[Zeros]

Doesn’t surprise me at all given Land Rover has forgotten its roots. With every single model aimed at the luxury market the bottom was always going to fall out. ...Brexit won’t be helping either.

without a fairdinkum Defender they’ll be in even more trouble IMO.

[ATH]

The problem seems to lie with bloody British government changing their mind on diesels. According to them they're now the big polluter yet not so many years ago they were getting people to buy them. No one wants to spend up large on a vehicle they can't sell in a few years because no one will buy it.
As JLRs production is mostly diesel it's hit them hard.
Alanh.

[gromit]

Doesn’t surprise me at all given Land Rover has forgotten its roots. With every single model aimed at the luxury market the bottom was always going to fall out. ...Brexit won’t be helping either.

without a fairdinkum Defender they’ll be in even more trouble IMO.

I'm sure it's the luxury market that's been keeping them afloat, Defender sales haven't been their core business for years and wouldn't have been very profitable.

• Land Rover global sales by model 2013-16 | Statistic (https://www.statista.com/statistics/387780/land-rover-global-sales-by-model/)


Colin

[Zeros]

I'm sure it's the luxury market that's been keeping them afloat, Defender sales haven't been their core business for years and wouldn't have been very profitable.

• Land Rover global sales by model 2013-16 | Statistic (https://www.statista.com/statistics/387780/land-rover-global-sales-by-model/)


Colin

Thats simply because luxury vehicles is all they make!! There’s a huge 4x4 vehicle market out there that’s not based on luxury vehicles. Land Rover have just been ignoring it for years.

By the way, link above isn’t accessible. ...it’s an “Exclusive Premium Statistic” ...which is actually remarkably poignant.

[gromit]

Thats simply because luxury vehicles is all they make!! There’s a huge 4x4 vehicle market out there that’s not based on luxury vehicles. Land Rover have just been ignoring it for years.

By the way, link above isn’t accessible. ...it’s an “Exclusive Premium Statistic” ...which is actually remarkably poignant.

Link works for me OK.

Out of interest which manufacturer currently supplies "the huge 4x4 vehicle market out there that's not based on luxury vehicles" ?


Colin

[DiscoMick]

The VW diesel cheating scandal has also hit other companies including JLR and focussed attention on the health effects of exhaust pollution, which kills far more people than road accidents. JLR, Nissan, Boeing and others have also talked of closing British car plants and shifting plants to the EU if Brexit goes ahead.

[Zeros]

Link works for me OK.

Out of interest which manufacturer currently supplies "the huge 4x4 vehicle market out there that's not based on luxury vehicles" ?


Colin








perhaps you could post the graph then?

Toyota, Nissan, VW, Isuzu, Ford, all make tradie vehicles.

[Zeros]

The VW diesel cheating scandal has also hit other companies including JLR and focussed attention on the health effects of exhaust pollution, which kills far more people than road accidents. JLR, Nissan, Boeing and others have also talked of closing British car plants and shifting plants to the EU if Brexit goes ahead.

Its a strange global world where protectionism and litigation rule. Bring on the electric Defender unless no one wants to trade with a UK company LOL.

[DiscoMick]

Airbus too. And the banks moving to Amsterdam.

[rar110]

Its a strange global world where protectionism and litigation rule. Bring on the electric Defender unless no one wants to trade with a UK company LOL.

I thought the Defenders were to be made in Slovakia anyway.

[gromit]

perhaps you could post the graph then?

Toyota, Nissan, VW, Isuzu, Ford, all make tradie vehicles.

And those tradie vehicles compare to the Defender ? They get more & more luxurious as each new model is launched and how many of them are mass produced in Asia ?

The Defender production method was outdated (too time consuming & therefore expensive) and they needed to stay in business so Land Rover moved into the much more profitable luxury 4WD market. They are not in the business of making a vehicle for someone like me to buy 10/20years down the track when it's very secondhand.
I think the heritage of the Defender was important to them as a brand but eventually they couldn't 'carry' the costs any longer.
I'm surprised the Defender lasted as long as it did.

I'll have to try & cut & paste the graph but for 2016 Defender sales globally 6,708 and Evoque 112,486 (I can't vouch for the accuracy of the figures).

Colin

[Zeros]

And those tradie vehicles compare to the Defender ? They get more & more luxurious as each new model is launched and how many of them are mass produced in Asia ?

The Defender production method was outdated (too time consuming & therefore expensive) and they needed to stay in business so Land Rover moved into the much more profitable luxury 4WD market. They are not in the business of making a vehicle for someone like me to buy 10/20years down the track when it's very secondhand.
I think the heritage of the Defender was important to them as a brand but eventually they couldn't 'carry' the costs any longer.
I'm surprised the Defender lasted as long as it did.

I'll have to try & cut & paste the graph but for 2016 Defender sales globally 6,708 and Evoque 112,486 (I can't vouch for the accuracy of the figures).

Colin

The reason Defender sales were so low is because they dropped the ball on working vehicles long ago and only kept Defender for nostalgia - which was a big mistake. It’s what led to the canned DC100. I think they should have developed another working vehicle alongside Defender long ago. Then re developed new Defender alongside old. They don’t need so many luxury vehicles which all look the same. They’ve pushed themselves into one market corner, when they could have had a much bigger slice of the Toyota work vehicle market too.

The mid-duty dualcab work utes are certainly more comparable with Defender than an Evoque!

[Zeros]

I thought the Defenders were to be made in Slovakia anyway.

Im not 100% sure but in terms of trade it’s where the company is based, not where their products are manufactured that counts with Brexit. ...maybe Land Rovers made in Slovakia won’t be allowed into UK - LOL.

Brexit is just dumb. We live in a global world. If a country puts up walls and tells everyone to F off ...they will!! ...and then the trade will too!

[gromit]

The mid-duty dualcab work utes are certainly more comparable with Defender than an Evoque!

Really ? But the mid-duty dualcab utes are made using modern designs & production methods in Asian factories.

There are lots of "what ifs". I'm not sure staying with basic the Defender design would have kept them afloat. Developing a work ute may have helped but would they back in the day have been able to compete with the big players ?

BMW sold them on, Ford sold them on, Tata invested money in them and they are once again a successful manufacturer.


Colin

[Homestar]

The mid-duty dualcab work utes are certainly more comparable with Defender than an Evoque!

Not a leap I would have made given almost all dual cab utes are rear wheel drive and need to have 4wd engaged when needed. That alone puts it in a different class IMO.

[Zeros]

Not a leap I would have made given almost all dual cab utes are rear wheel drive and need to have 4wd engaged when needed. That alone puts it in a different class IMO.

So you think an Evoque is more comparable then? 😊

[Zeros]

Really ? But the mid-duty dualcab utes are made using modern designs & production methods in Asian factories.

There are lots of "what ifs". I'm not sure staying with basic the Defender design would have kept them afloat. Developing a work ute may have helped but would they back in the day have been able to compete with the big players ?

BMW sold them on, Ford sold them on, Tata invested money in them and they are once again a successful manufacturer.


Colin

Yup, the Ranger should have been a Land Rover.

[donh54]

Yup, the Ranger should have been a Land Rover.

Yup, as long as you didn't work or play in long grass, or want to carry a reasonable load and tow a big trailer at the same time.

[weeds]

I think some need to remove their blinkers......

The world is getting by quite fine with the flood of dual cabs.....there are plenty doing the hard yards, actually doing all the hard yards. How many company’s in Aus had a fleet of defender compared to the rest of the manufacturers? 2/5th of bigger all.

Sure we can bash on about was a few of us want, end of the day they have missed the boat.

[gromit]

Yup, the Ranger should have been a Land Rover.

And it would be a consumable rather than a durable like the Defender.

It’s sad the Defender production came to an end but it would have been a loss leader and Land Rover needed to show a profit. The main buyer needs have changed but a lot of us Land Rover owners haven’t. I don’t need Apple play, auto headlights, auto parking, lane departure warning, rain sensitive wipers, auto braking etc. ( I’m a dinosaur) but the main buyers now demand these features. Most who buy a 4X4 never even take it off-road, it’s all about image.

It’ll be interesting to see what they replace the Defender with but I am not in their target market.

Colin

[gromit]

Im not 100% sure but in terms of trade it’s where the company is based, not where their products are manufactured that counts with Brexit. ...maybe Land Rovers made in Slovakia won’t be allowed into UK - LOL.

Brexit is just dumb. We live in a global world. If a country puts up walls and tells everyone to F off ...they will!! ...and then the trade will too!

Maybe you should read up a bit on Brexit & the EU.
The UK is not putting up walls just wanting to get out of the EU !
There are pro's & cons to this decision but one of the main considerations was the huge cost of being a member of the EU.

Colin

[Zeros]

Maybe you should read up a bit on Brexit & the EU.
The UK is not putting up walls just wanting to get out of the EU !
There are pro's & cons to this decision but one of the main considerations was the huge cost of being a member of the EU.

Colin

There are always pros and cons, goes without saying, but metaphorical walls can be worse than actual walls. The costs of Brexit are unknown, but it’s basically a knee jerk reaction against global engagement driven by immigration fears. It’s the global equivalent of building a castle wall.

[gromit]

There are always pros and cons, goes without saying, but metaphorical walls can be worse than actual walls. The costs of Brexit are unknown, but it’s basically a knee jerk reaction against global engagement driven by immigration fears. It’s the global equivalent of building a castle wall.

I don't agree with your comments, they are getting out of a system that costs them an awful lot for what return ?

The cost of getting out of the EU is unknown but one estimate of the cost to the UK and UK companies being in the EU was 600M GBP per week (no idea how this was calculated) 2016 membership contribution alone was 8.5Billion GBP.

No immigration control between member countries has caused concerns for various reasons. Doesn't Australia have castle walls ?
Britain is just trying to re-establish it's independent status in the World.

Colin

[ATH]

"but it’s basically a knee jerk reaction against global engagement driven by immigration fears". I don't think that was the major force behind the Brexit vote but the desire to get away from the overwhelming bureaucracy of the EU.
Great idea when they voted to join the EEC in about 1972 (European Economic Community) which was put forward as a free trade zone, but it morphed into a huge federal political entity with virtually total control of everything by the unelected "elite" based in Brussels.
Part of it was the free movement of people between countries and that allowed millions to travel anywhere and they migrated to those with lax safeguards paying benefits to those who had no intention of working.
Many good people went to the UK but they also had to take the crap.... crims. their own country was glad to see the back of and under the rules they aren't allowed to send them back.
The UK won't die because they're no longer a member of that organisation but things will be tough for a while but I bet much of the noise being made by some companies will be just that. Bluster and bull. They haven't invested billions in the UK to lose it.
AlanH.

[Zeros]

I don't agree with your comments, they are getting out of a system that costs them an awful lot for what return ?

The cost of getting out of the EU is unknown but one estimate of the cost to the UK and UK companies being in the EU was 600M GBP per week (no idea how this was calculated) 2016 membership contribution alone was 8.5Billion GBP.

No immigration control between member countries has caused concerns for various reasons. Doesn't Australia have castle walls ?
Britain is just trying to re-establish it's independent status in the World.

Colin

Thats ok Gromit, we can agree to disagree.

I’m not a fan of Australia’s castle walls either. I think it keeps us in the dark ages so to speak. If someone wants to come here from somewhere else, start a business / contribute to the economy / is not a criminal / respects the country, I welcome them. Just like I’d like to be able to go and live somewhere else for a while. It’s a big world. Open borders and trade makes a lot of sense to me. Diversity is the spice of life IMO.

Independent status in the world is utopian. The world is one big organism. Everything is inter-related. The economy is not the priority IMO. People and the planet are.

[jerryd]

Land Rover's much-awaited 21st century Defender replacement has been spotted on test - though lightly disguised.[smilebigeye]


Land Rovers tests its exciting 21st century Defender replacement - in disguise! | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6231995/Land-Rovers-tests-exciting-21st-century-Defender-replacement-disguise.html)

[gromit]

Thats ok Gromit, we can agree to disagree.

I’m not a fan of Australia’s castle walls either. I think it keeps us in the dark ages so to speak. If someone wants to come here from somewhere else, start a business / contribute to the economy / is not a criminal / respects the country, I welcome them. Just like I’d like to be able to go and live somewhere else for a while. It’s a big world. Open borders and trade makes a lot of sense to me. Diversity is the spice of life IMO.

Independent status in the world is utopian. The world is one big organism. Everything is inter-related. The economy is not the priority IMO. People and the planet are.

Well I clearly disagree with your utopian idealism.

If you want to go somewhere else to live you can ! It's just that there is a process to go through.

Colin