PDA

View Full Version : ultra reliable Defa



dromader driver
23rd October 2018, 09:01 AM
Well, I always knew my Defender was ultra reliable in comparison.


Tribunal orders $283,000 refund on lemon Range Rover Autobiography
John Rolfe, News Corp Australia Network
an hour ago
Subscriber only
EXCLUSIVE

IN what is likely an Australian record, a consumer tribunal has awarded a $283,000 refund on this couple’s dud new car.

Now they are trying to reclaim legal costs — a whopping $134,000.

And their treatment is being assessed by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission team investigating new car retailing.

Needing a vehicle to tow her horse float, in September 2015 Sally Morphy of Barrabool near Geelong agreed to buy for $235,000 a Range Rover Autobiography from a Queensland dealership.


Sally and James Morphy with the lemon Range Rover. Picture: Andrew Henshaw
She got the car in April 2016. That month the coolant warning light came on. She took it to the local dealership which topped up the coolant. In June the gearbox light came on. The local dealer couldn’t explain this. In July the coolant light came on again. The dealer topped up the coolant once more. The same thing happened in September and replaced the sensor on the warning light.

In October the car failed to start.

In November the coolant reservoir was found nearly empty. Mrs Morphy asked a different dealership look at the car. It found no fault. She had a solicitor write to the first dealership to say she wouldn’t have bought the car if she had known of its defects.

Mrs Morphy had an expert engineer inspect the car in March and April 2016. He found there was a risk of “sudden and catastrophic engine failure”. Tribunal member Blair Ussher agreed, saying in written reasons published last month that “the repetitive and undiagnosed failures made the car unreliable … and the prospect of the defect leading to a sudden and catastrophic engine failure rendered the motor car unfit for its basic purpose, that is to be driven on or off roads, let alone for any purpose such goods are commonly put to.”


Excerpt from the VCAT decision in the Range Rover case. Source: VCAT
He also found that the car was unsafe and not durable, as required under consumer law.

He ordered Jaguar Land Rover Australia (JLRA), which is owned by India’s Tata Motors, to refund Mrs Morphy of $283,191 which included the expert’s bill, use of a replacement car and interest. Legal costs have yet to be determined.

“I haven’t heard of a larger car refund in Australia,” said consumer law expert Josh Simons of the firm Thomson Geer.

“We certainly haven’t heard of a larger car refund,” Consumer Action Legal Centre spokesman Mick Bellairs said.

Mrs Morphy said she hoped the decision would act as a precedent.

“We were in a position to be able to argue with them,” she said. “You certainly wouldn’t want this to happen to any other person.”

Husband James Morphy, who until recently owned a large Holden dealership, said: “The behaviour of Jaguar Land Rover has been beyond appalling.”


The Morphys’ next battle is over legal costs. Picture: Andrew Henshaw
A JLRA spokesman said in the costs hearing its “efforts to resolve Mrs Morphy’s concerns will be conveyed. Until the conclusion of the proceedings, JLRA is unable to comment further.”

The Queensland dealership the car was bought from said it didn’t own the yard at the time.

An ACCC spokesman said it “would expect Jaguar Land Rover Australia to undertake a review of it systems in light of this judgement”.

WHY the couple won:

* the car was unsafe and not durable, in breach of consumer law

* it was also not ‘fit for purpose’ — another legal must

* they formally rejected the car in writing in a reasonable time

* they got expert evidence and presented it to the tribunal

Follow this reporter’s work on Facebook or Twitter

Originally published as Owner wins $283,000 refund for dud Range Rover

COMMENTS

austastar
23rd October 2018, 09:06 AM
Hi,
It is behind a pay wall.
Cheers

bee utey
23rd October 2018, 10:15 AM
Hi,
It is behind a pay wall.
Cheers

Look up "paywall bypass" on your favourite search engine when you have a moment to spare...

dromader driver
23rd October 2018, 10:56 AM
Hi,
It is behind a pay wall.
Cheers

I copied over just the words. [biggrin]

goingbush
23rd October 2018, 05:23 PM
From Todays Herald Sun

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44571507_1920535031361611_7396934166278832128_o.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=9f873bd245c6ce68d021976fe85b6518&oe=5C3CFAE6

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44532035_1920535098028271_2557322054588170240_o.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=8bdfbf077dfdda7c611d4307ab0df396&oe=5C826643

goingbush
23rd October 2018, 05:26 PM
Good News indeed, Multiple Iveco Daily 4x4 owners are in legal proceedings with VCAT , ACCC & Iveco Australia re vehicles being dangerous & not fit for purpose . Now there is a decent precedent , Thank you the Morphy's .

rar110
23rd October 2018, 05:29 PM
That’s got to hurt JLRA.

weeds
23rd October 2018, 06:35 PM
It’s not the first time they have to go down this path....the was a member on here with a RRS that I believe had a similar outcome although didn’t make the news.

EastFreo
23rd October 2018, 11:23 PM
A while ago I was talking to a gentleman who previously was the global head of complaints for a major European car manufacturer. He was saying all car manufacturers have issues and how they generally replace cars before they get to this stage.

In in his case they produced a huge number of cars each year and outlined each month they would replace a couple of cars in these cases. To be honest I was surprised how few a number he was talking about.

I was was also quite impressed that in this case someone as senior as him would personally deliver the car with a personal apology.

Land Rover needs to take a leaf out of this book.

gromit
24th October 2018, 05:42 AM
Lucky they had a spare $134,000 to fight the case.
Odd that they live in Geelong & purchased from a dealer in QLD.
Strange that the dealer said they didn't own the vehicle at the time or does that just mean it's on finance to the dealer until it's sold so not 'effectively' theirs ???

Colin

Grumbles
24th October 2018, 06:39 AM
Strange that the dealer said they didn't own the vehicle at the time or does that just mean it's on finance to the dealer until it's sold so not 'effectively' theirs ???

Colin

The Queensland dealership the car was bought from said it didn’t own the yard at the time.

incisor
24th October 2018, 11:23 AM
They said they didn't own the yard it was sold through at the time

Lots of people buy from Victoria and ship to Queensland so it doesn't surprise me they went the other way

Bit sad all round it has to be said but doesn't surprise me 1iota to be frank

gromit
24th October 2018, 03:37 PM
The Queensland dealership the car was bought from said it didn’t own the yard at the time.

That's not exactly how it reads in the newspaper article......


Colin

donh54
24th October 2018, 05:46 PM
The great majority of cars on a dealers lot (whether new or used) are under finance. (My BIL's son used to work for one of the finance companies involved in this sort of stuff.) Generally the first month is interest-only, then the payments start going up every month thereafter.

Because of the above, dealers are more likely to accept a deal in the week prior to the payment being due, than just after. This is just one of the lurks car brokers like John Cardogan use, to get good discounts on new cars. They (autoexpert.com) will shop around for you, and get the best price for the car you want, delivered to your door, with a full tank of fuel. They told me that the car may come from anywhere in Australia.

I would hazard a guess that this is what the story was here, with the car being sourced from a Qld dealer.

DazzaTD5
26th October 2018, 11:52 AM
How is this post remotely 90 110 130 Defender County related ???????

Should it not be moved into general chat or anywhere besides here ?

Geedublya
26th October 2018, 01:21 PM
How is this post remotely 90 110 130 Defender County related ???????

Should it not be moved into general chat or anywhere besides here ?

It's one of the Defender crew bragging about how the Defender is much more reliable because it is so simple (again).

Vern
26th October 2018, 01:59 PM
It's one of the Defender crew bragging about how the Defender is much more reliable because it is so simple (again).What defender?[emoji6]

scarry
26th October 2018, 08:04 PM
What defender?[emoji6]

The new one,you know the one thats coming sometime in the next decade or so,maybe.[biggrin]

LR dealers have definitely given the brand a very bad name many times,i don't know how they get away with it,maybe for not much longer,it appears.

I know from a very good source,the local dealer around here had 5 new vehicles they couldn't fix,and the owners wouldn't return their loan vehicles.[bigsad]

if you put this sort of thing into perspective,looking at volume of sales,LR sell around 12 000 vehicles a year in Aus.

Some brands seem to have a lot less issues,and sell over 18 000 vehicles a month.[bighmmm]

martnH
26th October 2018, 08:26 PM
Haha

I drove a loan car from JLR for 3 months. While waiting for repairs done on my defender.

The 10 as immobiliser melted and almost started a fire. Jlr done the investigation and concluded it's a faulty part that started the fire.

I waited 3 months. They fed me lots of bull****. To the point I sent email to UK headquarter, enclosing the log book of my interaction with JLR Australia.

By the time I got my defender back, the battery was dead because the truck was sitting in their yard for three weeks. Dealer ask for $800 for a new battery.

I was thinking of buying a D4 but nah no way. I would rather die


Cheers
Martin

Vern
26th October 2018, 09:54 PM
The new one,you know the one thats coming sometime in the next decade or so,maybe.[biggrin]

LR dealers have definitely given the brand a very bad name many times,i don't know how they get away with it,maybe for not much longer,it appears.

I know from a very good source,the local dealer around here had 5 new vehicles they couldn't fix,and the owners wouldn't return their loan vehicles.[bigsad]

if you put this sort of thing into perspective,looking at volume of sales,LR sell around 12 000 vehicles a year in Aus.

Some brands seem to have a lot less issues,and sell over 18 000 vehicles a month.[bighmmm]The one that is coming in 2019/2020? As it always was.

DazzaTD5
26th October 2018, 11:24 PM
It's one of the Defender crew bragging about how the Defender is much more reliable because it is so simple (again).

Well yes i can understand that... i mean hell, we all know it right????

But dirty talk about new Range Rover models is just sullying this part of the forum [tonguewink][tonguewink]

djam1
27th October 2018, 07:07 AM
Is the thread about the ultra reliable Puma?
Mmm
Not sure Digger would agree with that

Zeros
27th October 2018, 07:46 AM
I reckon the OP was just trying to be funny comparing to his Defender, but it doesn’t make any sense. The thread probably needs a new title and should be in general chat.

It’s good to see a vehicle manufacturer properly held to account for a faulty vehicle.

Somehow vehicle faults are in a category of their own. Most other faulty products would simply be returned for a new replacement within the warranty period. Repairs are obviously more realistic on such a complex and expensive product, but surely there should be a two or three strikes rule and a replacement provided if a vehicle continues to have faults.

Defenders then wouldnt need driveline upgrades, etc because some pressure would be back on the manufacturer to modify the design.

DazzaTD5
27th October 2018, 11:50 AM
Is the thread about the ultra reliable Puma?
Mmm
Not sure Digger would agree with that

Like with a lot of Land Rover models, its a perspective thing....
If there are say a handful of faults with the Defender TDCi (puma, 2007 on), then the model before had 50 million faults.
The Defender / 110 has always been a hodge bodge of a vehicle. As new transmissions, engines etc etc became available, they were shoe horned into the existing vehicle with the very minimal of changes.

The biggest thing that ****s me with the last Defender TDCi model was some items that were the same as the previous model and rarely gave problems have suddenly become an issue with the TDCi. Two steps forward one step backwards.....

The best part about a Defender / 110 is sitting there looking at it, the next is driving it..... the worst part is working on them. [tonguewink]

DazzaTD5
27th October 2018, 11:56 AM
I reckon the OP was just trying to be funny comparing to his Defender, but it doesn’t make any sense. The thread probably needs a new title and should be in general chat.

It’s good to see a vehicle manufacturer properly held to account for a faulty vehicle.

Somehow vehicle faults are in a category of their own. Most other faulty products would simply be returned for a new replacement within the warranty period.

Well yes that is the law and its only new car manufacturers and their lobby group that seem to think consumer warranty is only for fridges and washing machines etc.
The ACCC does seem to be moving on these manufacturers with the latest being VW with a court in forced order on money back for any owner having major engine issues with their VW diesel car.