Abolish the apostrophe!

[DiscoMick]

I agree with this proposal. I understand and teach the rules about the apostrophe, but I think theyre stupid. Theres no reason for the apostrophe to exist - it doesnt do anything useful. Let's abolish it.

Analysis: Lets get rid of the apostrophe
Lets get rid of the apostrophe - RN - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-30/lets-get-rid-of-the-apostrophe/10433990)

Did anyone notice it's omission here?

[Homestar]

I agree with this proposal. I understand and teach the rules about the apostrophe, but I think they're stupid. There's no reason for the apostrophe to exist - it doesn't do anything useful. Let's abolish it.

Analysis: Lets get rid of the apostrophe
Lets get rid of the apostrophe - RN - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-30/lets-get-rid-of-the-apostrophe/10433990)

Did anyone notice its omission here?

I've corrected your spelling - yes I noticed and also noticed your addition of one when not required - they serve a very useful purpose and it isn't rocket science to understand IMO. Maybe people should try harder at School rather than change the rules to to suit their own stupidity. What next? Change spelling because that's too hard as well?

Just more dumbing down of the population to suit the lowest common denominator. We'll all have American accents soon and be speaking in grunts...

[4bee]

I agree with this proposal. I understand and teach the rules about the apostrophe, but I think theyre stupid. Theres no reason for the apostrophe to exist - it doesnt do anything useful. Let's abolish it.

Analysis: Lets get rid of the apostrophe
Lets get rid of the apostrophe - RN - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-30/lets-get-rid-of-the-apostrophe/10433990)

Did anyone notice it's omission here?\


No, but I certainly noticed it's inclusion. [wink11] [smilebigeye]

[LRT]

It’s noticeable how the average worker now says: “Hey man” instead of “G’day mate”.

Watching too many American movies perhaps?

[bee utey]

Apostrophe manglers are needed as lunch for the creature that 'eats shoots and leaves'. Comma manglers are needed as lunch for green grocer's.

[4bee]

It’s noticeable how the average worker now says: “Hey man” instead of “G’day mate”.

Watching too many American movies perhaps?


And even the word "mate" is being done to death when one watches the box, just to emphasise they are Australian speaking.

I mean, how could one not recognise an Aussie?[smilebigeye][smilebigeye][smilebigeye][smilebigeye]

The Akubra, Driza, (if it's raining) Moleskins, RM Boots, Fosters Tinny, piece of straw in one's gob are dead giveaways among other characteristics.[biggrin]

And if you believe that you'll believe anything.

[4bee]

It’s noticeable how the average worker now says: “Hey man” instead of “G’day mate”.

Watching too many American movies perhaps?


And even the word "mate" is being done to death when one watches the box, just to emphasise they are Australian speaking.

I mean, how could one not recognise an Aussie?[smilebigeye][smilebigeye][smilebigeye][smilebigeye]

The Akubra, Driza, (if it's raining) Moleskins, RM Boots, Fosters Tinny, piece of straw in one's gob are dead giveaways among other characteristics.[biggrin]

And if you believe that you'll believe anything.

[87County]

\


No, but I certainly noticed it's inclusion. [wink11] [smilebigeye]

is the wink because it's incorrect? :)

[87County]

Apostrophe manglers are needed as lunch for the creature that 'eats shoots and leaves'. Comma manglers are needed as lunch for green grocer's.

uh,oh

[DiscoMick]

So mateys, lets form the Apostrophe Liberation Front (ALF), or should that be the Front for the Liberation of the Public from the Apostrophe (FLPA), and just stop using apostrophes. After all, Shakespeare didnt use apostrophes and he did alright.

Down with the tyranny of the apostrophe! Free the English Language from the Dreaded Apostrophe! [thumbsupbig]
Millions of English language students would be dancing in the streets if the apostrophe was abolished.

(I'm getting a bit over-excited here).[bigsmile1]

When I suggested the abolition of the apostrophe to my wife this morning, she just commented that I must be bored...[bighmmm]

[Bigbjorn]

And even the word "mate" is being done to death when one watches the box, just to emphasise they are Australian speaking.

I mean, how could one not recognise an Aussie?[smilebigeye][smilebigeye][smilebigeye][smilebigeye]

The Akubra, Driza, (if it's raining) Moleskins, RM Boots, Fosters Tinny, piece of straw in one's gob are dead giveaways among other characteristics.[biggrin]

And if you believe that you'll believe anything.

Go visit the CBD in Melbourne or Sydney and see if you can find an Australian.[bigsad]

[87County]

.....

(I'm getting a bit over-excited here).[bigsmile1]

When I suggested the abolition of the apostrophe to my wife this morning, she just commented that I must be bored...[bighmmm]

Either that, or your Land Rover doesn't need fixing at the moment :)

[4bee]

is the wink because it's incorrect? :)


Was it incorrect? i thought it was because mick used two examples in one post, or couldn't make up his mind, but it also could have been because he was taking the mick.[bighmmm]

[101RRS]

Only a lower class bogan would want to get rid of the Apostrophe - is very useful if used correctly [thumbsupbig]

What will the great unwashed come up with next?

[DiscoMick]

I think auto-correct corrected my deliberate error and I didn't notice.

[Fifth Columnist]

Did anyone notice it's omission here?
Yes, both of them.

[4bee]

Go visit the CBD in Melbourne or Sydney and see if you can find an Australian.[bigsad]

Ah well that is Melbourne for you, first it was the Greeks who in most cases assimilated extremely well as they did in Adelaide but now days who really knows what the majority of the populace is in either city? Possibly Chinese here, well certainly in the Eastern Suburbs. CBD? Never go in there as I have no reason to.

Sydney has always historically been a comprehensive population.

I blame the Bomb me.[smilebigeye]

[Zeros]

Yet another thread turned to bigotry!

...Seriously, what has an apostrophe got to do with the cultural diversity of Melbourne?

Not using an apostrophe doesn’t make you a bogan, it’s just incorrect use of the English written language.

What does make you a bogan however, is the expectation that everyone in Australia should be just like you and the racist notion that only white Euro / Australians are ‘real Aussies’.

[debruiser]

As much as I want to agree with you all that the apostrophe has a purpose, I see no benefit in it's use. However as I type I notice that autocorrect is inserting them automatically (but can't correct autocorrect.... go figure).

If you want to get up in arms about removing the apostrophe why not get up in arms about the use of abbreviations! They're = They are, It's = it is, wouldn't = would not. If we are not going to get lazy then let us do it properly and type/pronounce EVERYTHING. This obviously does not include the whole pronoun ownership thing that they do.

My point is, language changes with the times.

Please note: I am sure you can easily spot grammar mistakes within my post. I really do not care. [tonguewink]

[Hogarthde]

I was at a caravan exposition a couple of years ago,and noticed some spelling errors on the specification sheet and incorrect use of apostrophe . A sales lady approached me ( yes I realize that is gender specific ), and asked 'can I help you sir? '( oh bugger, that is also gender specific ), and I pointed out the the errors, perhaps it could have E&OE, but it was a specification . She become most scathing about my being fussy and silly , so I replied ' If the the spelling is so bad why should I believe the numbers ,to wit , the compliance plate? '

At that stage , my dearest ushered me away........

Dave

[LRJim]

Sounds like another left wing attempt to make the world a "better place"https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181030/606112cde22b8d7447f9d4fcaedf711a.jpg

Sorry I broke my nose last night I'm just being a grump....

[4bee]

Yet another thread turned to bigotry!

...Seriously, what has an apostrophe got to do with the cultural diversity of Melbourne?

Not using an apostrophe doesn’t make you a bogan, it’s just incorrect use of the English written language.

What does make you a bogan however, is the expectation that everyone in Australia should be just like you and the racist notion that only white Euro / Australians are ‘real Aussies’.

Bigotry?? What a twisted world we live in.


Don't forget the 'of' instead of the 'have', James. ie. "Should have...." not "Should of..." FFS


.Seriously, what has an apostrophe got to do with the cultural diversity of Melbourne?


Hang on, hang on, it wasn't me that changed the theme of the thread or post, besides I don't, but used to, own a pair of RM boots.

Now, where is that 'up yours' smiley? [wink11]

[DiscoMick]

The apostrophe was pinched off the French in the 17th century, but I think its just poncing about and doesnt do anything essential. We already know where letters have been omitted from contractions, dont we, and the possessive is obvious anyway from the sentence structure, so really the apostrophe is redundant.
The Apostrophe Liberation Front (ALF) is correct, I reckon.
After all, if Americans can delete the letter 'u' from many words, then we can dump the useless apostrophe, cant we?

[SBD4]

so, what's the difference between these two sentences then?

The girl's toys.
The girls' toys.

Can we convey the same distinction by excluding the apostrophe or does it become ambiguous?

The girls toys

[LRJim]

so, what's the difference between these two sentences then?

The girl's toys.
The girls' toys.

Can we convey the same distinction by excluding the apostrophe or does it become ambiguous?

The girls toysThat depends on what society abolishes first.
The word girl
Or the apostrophe
And so on until we just mumble at eachother

[DiscoMick]

so, what's the difference between these two sentences then?

The girl's toys.
The girls' toys.

Can we convey the same distinction by excluding the apostrophe or does it become ambiguous?

The girls toys
Like most languages, you would know from the context if it was singular or plural and possessive from the wording of the sentence. Other languages dont need apostrophes.

[RobMichelle]

That filled in 5 minutes, thanks.[emoji3]

[JDNSW]

Like most proposals to "reform" English (spelling, grammar, pronunciation, meanings of words etc etc) this proposal ignores the simple truth that nobody (and no body) can reform English or any of its dialects (including Australian English)- it evolves continuously, but there are powerful forces controlling this evolution, and one of the strongest is the need to maintain inter-dialect intelligibility, especially in the written form.

At the present time at least, this is almost certain to keep the apostrophe.

[Zeros]

Great to see the discussion is back on punctuation.

This is link is helpful. Apostrophe (’) | Oxford Dictionaries (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/punctuation/apostrophe)

Apostrophes are important in terms of clarity of position. Nothing is the apostrophes unless it’s the apostrophes’.

[Homestar]

So mateys, lets form the Apostrophe Liberation Front (ALF), or should that be the Front for the Liberation of the Public from the Apostrophe (FLPA), and just stop using apostrophes. After all, Shakespeare didnt use apostrophes and he did alright.

Down with the tyranny of the apostrophe! Free the English Language from the Dreaded Apostrophe! [thumbsupbig]
Millions of English language students would be dancing in the streets if the apostrophe was abolished.

(I'm getting a bit over-excited here).[bigsmile1]

When I suggested the abolition of the apostrophe to my wife this morning, she just commented that I must be bored...[bighmmm]

He died just shy of his 52nd Birthday - not sure how successful that made him to be honest... 😉

[Grumbles]

After all, if Americans can delete the letter 'u' from many words, then we can dump the useless apostrophe, cant we?

No. As previous posters have written it has an essential function.

[ozscott]

I, like, apostrophe.

Cheer,s

[TasD90]

I think ozscott may be aCOMMAdating but not apostrophising.

Peter

[ozscott]

I did always confuse the two. Both're great.

Cheers

[Fifth Columnist]

's'pose next we'll be discussing where to use full stops or semicolons...

[ozscott]

Most folks in 'straya dont use the semi- colon; yet they should.

Cheers

[DiscoMick]

Yes they should but they dont. No need for it see they. Unnecessary other languages consider. Also unnecessary commas articles past present future tenses. Object verb subject word order. More efficient. Challenging for English speakers.

[gromit]

Maybe those of us that care should join the Apostrophe Protection Society.

The rules are explained and there are some cracking examples of incorrect usage.........

Welcome to the Apostrophe Protection Society (https://www.apostrophe.org.uk/)



Colin

[Fifth Columnist]

English is a fun language.
Don't spoil it.

[Zeros]

This would appear to be the most relevant example of lost apostrophes for aulro nerds, on the Apostrope Protection Society website LOL. 😊
145605

[Homestar]

Yes they should but they dont. No need for it see they. Unnecessary other languages consider. Also unnecessary commas articles past present future tenses. Object verb subject word order. More efficient. Challenging for English speakers.

That whole post is challenging for those that can actually speak English.

[debruiser]

I think the lack of use and incorrect use of the semi-colon stems from our educators not knowing the correct usage for them. Well at least my teachers never taught me what they were or how to use them. They can be a very effective tool when used correctly. However, I feel that maybe this is yet another redundancy creeping into our language.

I guess, when we are thinking about these language things, we should keep in mind that there is 2 versions of english. You have the daily used, common english if you like, the stuff we are using now and we see all day long. Then there is the (and i can't remember the correct term for it) legal english or university style english I guess you could call it. Very different use of the language, to the extent that if you're not practised in it then it's a struggle to understand!

While we are at it! I hate the dropping of practise! I've had educators tell me it's redundant and "we just use Practice" well, my friends it's a different word! Lets use it correctly; it's the principal of the thing ;)

P.S. why can't we make "you are not", into you'rn't ?

[4bee]

I think the lack of use and incorrect use of the semi-colon stems from our educators not knowing the correct usage for them. Well at least my teachers never taught me what they were or how to use them. They can be a very effective tool when used correctly. However, I feel that maybe this is yet another redundancy creeping into our language.

I guess, when we are thinking about these language things, we should keep in mind that there is 2 versions of english. You have the daily used, common english if you like, the stuff we are using now and we see all day long. Then there is the (and i can't remember the correct term for it) legal english or university style english I guess you could call it. Very different use of the language, to the extent that if you're not practised in it then it's a struggle to understand!

While we are at it! I hate the dropping of practise! I've had educators tell me it's redundant and "we just use Practice" well, my friends it's a different word! Lets use it correctly; it's the principal of the thing ;)

P.S. why can't we make "you are not", into you'rn't ?



You omitted the 3rd version, ie. Microsoft (Yank speak) That one really shags up the English Language.
:bat:

[JDNSW]

Actually, there are many versions of English.

For a start, there are regional dialects, for example, US English, British English, Australian English, Indian English. These differ in vocabulary, pronunciation, spelling, and quite often more sbtly in common expressions and idioms. And within these regional dialects there are further regional variations, much less pronounced here in Australia than in some other regions such as the US or UK.

But as well as these variations, there are, within each dialect, a wide range of specialised variants, which are linked to specific groups within society, often occupations or sports etc, and often crossing between dialects.

And then for all these variants of English, there are variants in the way each dialect is used, according to the situation. For example, spoken English, written English, Telegraphese, Textspeak, etc, and even within these there are variations according to circumstances.

As an example, in spoken Australian English, the words and structure used would be quite different between supporting your team from the sidelines, giving the eulogy at a funeral, or giving evidence in court. Similarly, written English will be very different if writing a letter to a friend, writing a job application, or writing a scientific paper.

In some of these situations adherence to accepted rules of standard English (for the dialect you are using) are important (e.g. the scientific paper, a job application) and for others much less so, although for most people it is good practice to endeavour to always adhere to the rules, so that it is easy to ensure that you do in those cases where it really does matter!

[debruiser]

isn't that what i said :P

[Zeros]

Interestingly, there are also many words and expressions in many languages other than English, for which there are no satisfactory translations in English.

If only the Australian education system valued multi-lingual education more highly, I’d be able to recite many and we’d all have much bigger vocabularies and a more interesting perspective on our culturally diverse world.

An example is: gemütlich. A German word with the approximate but entirely inadequate English meaning of a cosy, comfortable, welcoming feeling.

No apostrophes needed this time, but there is an umlaut, which is equally indispensable.

Slowly accumulating some German, Italian, French, is no substitute for real linguistic diversity, so against the odds I now intend to learn more languages into my later life. Hopefully an old fella can learn some new tricks! :)

[debruiser]

Interestingly, there are also many words and expressions in many languages other than English, for which there are no satisfactory translations in English.

If only the Australian education system valued multi-lingual education more highly, I’d be able to recite many and we’d all have much bigger vocabularies and a more interesting perspective on our culturally diverse world.

An example is: gemütlich. A German word with the approximate but entirely inadequate English meaning of a cosy, comfortable, welcoming feeling.

No apostrophes needed this time, but there is an umlaut, which is equally indispensable.

Slowly accumulating some German, Italian, French, is no substitute for real linguistic diversity, so against the odds I now intend to learn more languages into my later life. Hopefully an old fella can learn some new tricks! :)



I agree somewhat with you, but didn't you just list 3 words that mean similar things? I'm sure that those 3 words have pretty specific meanings themselves. If we pulled a thesaurus out I'm sure we could find more. English is a ridiculously precise language which makes it stupidly hard to learn properly (and I am by NO means any good at it).

In saying that yes sometimes another language can succinctly sum up what you want to say in one word rather than a whole sentence.

[Zeros]

In saying that yes sometimes another language can succinctly sum up what you want to say in one word rather than a whole sentence.

Exactly. Often more elegantly too. Just as English words can also at times be more direct. I’m advocating for the coexistence of diverse languages, not whether any one language is better than another. If I could speak three languages fluently I might interchange words between all three depending on the circumstance. English becoming the world language is a simplistic and reductive state of affairs.

[JDNSW]

.... English becoming the world language is a simplistic and reductive state of affairs.

But one that has plenty of historical precedent, although not historically for the whole world, due to poorer communications.

Some of the early examples are where Aramaic displaced most languages in the Middle East, largely being succeeded by Greek, and later Arabic and Turkish. Further west Latin displaced most other languages and became the "world language" for the Western world, only to be largely displaced by French. Further east Mandarin became dominant, and Malay further south, although South and southeastern Asia never gained a common language to the extent that occurred in Europe. Northern Asia had most local languages replaced by Russian.

In the Americas, all local languages were largely replaced by English, Spanish and Portuguese. In the British Isles, English was almost completely universal by the mid twentieth century, and the worldwide british Empire spread the language worldwide.

Today, the economic and political dominance of the USA, building on top of the language legacy of the British Empire, has meant that ability in English has become a key to personal advancement in almost every country in the world. It is possible that this may be challenged by Mandarin in the future, but I would not bet on it.

Whether the increasing dominance of English, that I have observed during my lifetime, continues, largely depends on what happens in world politics rather than anything to do with education or what governments want!

[speleomike]

Oh let's all be pedantic :-)


You omitted the 3rd version, ie. Microsoft (Yank speak) That one really shags up the English Language.
:bat:

That should be "i.e. Microsoft" (with a full stop after the "i") as it is an abbreviation for the Latin "id est".

Mike

[DiscoMick]

That whole post is challenging for those that can actually speak English.Deliberately written to reflect the grammar of some Asian languages. For example the word order is Object verb subject e.g. 'Shopping go I'.
Once you get used to it, its actually very efficient as you immediately know what is being discussed, then what is being done about it and finally who is doing it.
No need for apostrophes either.

[DiscoMick]

Its certainly true that many teachers have never been properly educated in English grammar and so struggle to teach others. They are not alone. I worked as a journalist for a long time and so was very fluent, but it was not until I studied to become an ESL tutor that I learnt the grammar reasons behind the habits I already knew. Most people are OK at copying repeatedly until they know the common language habits, but dont know the Whys.
For example, many people have some clues about using apostrophes, but struggle to explain the reasons.
Apostrophes only came into English in the 17th century, so it was unnecessary until then. The English ruling class preferred to speak French for a long time, and the English language was for the common people.
Ron is right there are many varieties of English. I wrote an essay on Singapore English (Singlish). Singaporeans speak better English than many Australians, who speak Ozlish and mangle our grammar and pronunciation.

[Homestar]

Deliberately written to reflect the grammar of some Asian languages. For example the word order is Object verb subject e.g. 'Shopping go I'.
Once you get used to it, its actually very efficient as you immediately know what is being discussed, then what is being done about it and finally who is doing it.
No need for apostrophes either.

But why change things and have to re learn how to read - your post was difficult and time consuming to read - enough proof that punctuation is essential in our society. [emoji6]

[Zeros]

But one that has plenty of historical precedent, although not historically for the whole world, due to poorer communications.

Some of the early examples are where Aramaic displaced most languages in the Middle East, largely being succeeded by Greek, and later Arabic and Turkish. Further west Latin displaced most other languages and became the "world language" for the Western world, only to be largely displaced by French. Further east Mandarin became dominant, and Malay further south, although South and southeastern Asia never gained a common language to the extent that occurred in Europe. Northern Asia had most local languages replaced by Russian.

In the Americas, all local languages were largely replaced by English, Spanish and Portuguese. In the British Isles, English was almost completely universal by the mid twentieth century, and the worldwide british Empire spread the language worldwide.

Today, the economic and political dominance of the USA, building on top of the language legacy of the British Empire, has meant that ability in English has become a key to personal advancement in almost every country in the world. It is possible that this may be challenged by Mandarin in the future, but I would not bet on it.

Whether the increasing dominance of English, that I have observed during my lifetime, continues, largely depends on what happens in world politics rather than anything to do with education or what governments want!

Indeed. ...There goes the boring old growth capital economy driving world culture and politics again. I know people who learned Mandarin for that very reason.

But the fact is, in Australia the imperative to learn another language is almost non-existent. I think we are greatly diminished as a people by this, in many ways beyond economics.

Innovation is driven by diversity, not homogenisation. Granted it is also driven by circumstance, including invasion, which most of your examples above are a result of. But we would be more likely to innovate and less likely to be invaded if we were a multi-lingual country, not resting on our English colonial laurels IMO.

Language = Friendship.

[Zeros]

But why change things and have to re learn how to read - your post was difficult and time consuming to read - enough proof that punctuation is essential in our society. [emoji6]

Difficulty is another mother of invention.

‘Simplifying’ a language can actually make it more difficult to read - as a result apostrophes were invented. ...As Mick has inadvertently proven with his incongruous para above 🙃

That’s not to say Micks new lingo can’t be learnt and our brains would be better for it, because it would lead to new words and phrases, just as technology, the internet, text messaging and other cultural influences have.

Although in Micks world my sentence above would mean cant, rather than can’t. Which would result in an oblique deviation, rather than a false negative ...and who knows where that would lead us?! LOL 😂

[POD]

My surname has an apostrophe. I'm rather attached to them. Many internet proformas do not accept the apostrophe as a valid character in a name. Nothing is more certain to infuriate members of my family.

[DiscoMick]

My paragraph above is only difficult to read because we arent used to that word order. A Korean might find my paragraph easier to read than English.

Heres the opposing argument:

Opinion: Hey Tiger, apostrophes aren't that hard. So let's not get rid of them
Apostrophes are members of the English alphabet, not punctuation, and too important to lose - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-31/apostrophe-alphabet-why-we-need-punctuation/10450576)

[JDNSW]

To sum up my points - it is not up to us as individuals to decide whether to keep apostrophes or not - the evolution of the language will decide that. All we can do as individuals is to either use the language as it has evolved, apostrophes and all, or reduce our ability to communicate by using a non-standard version of English (in this context "non-standard" means a version of English different to that which would be expected in the circumstances).

[Homestar]

My paragraph above is only difficult to read because we arent used to that word order. A Korean might find my paragraph easier to read than English.

Heres the opposing argument:

Opinion: Hey Tiger, apostrophes aren't that hard. So let's not get rid of them
Apostrophes are members of the English alphabet, not punctuation, and too important to lose - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-31/apostrophe-alphabet-why-we-need-punctuation/10450576)

So you want to make life harder for people that understand English so that other who already can't understand English have an easier time??? The mind boggles... [biggrin]

[Zeros]

So you want to make life harder for people that understand English so that other who already can't understand English have an easier time??? The mind boggles... [biggrin]

...Why not? I like it. [tonguewink]

[Zeros]

To sum up my points - it is not up to us as individuals to decide whether to keep apostrophes or not - the evolution of the language will decide that. All we can do as individuals is to either use the language as it has evolved, apostrophes and all, or reduce our ability to communicate by using a non-standard version of English (in this context "non-standard" means a version of English different to that which would be expected in the circumstances).

The balance between breaking the rules and maintaining comprehension in the use of language is at its best the art of a great orator or writer. It is also an everyday occurrence. Individuals are inseparable from the whole. The way in which we all use language differently contributes to the perpetual evolution of languages everyday. Apostrophes or not.

[JDNSW]

Exactly!

[DiscoMick]

Has anyone noticed I have ceased to use apostrophes in my posts here? Has their absence caused any problems? Thats how language evolves.

[LRJim]

Has anyone noticed I have ceased to use apostrophes in my posts here? Has their absence caused any problems? Thats how language evolves.Maybe no one really gives a ****. Get the **** over it Mick, the apostrophe will be around long after you. Now keep sipping your latte behind your Mac and find the next world changing trend to annoy us all with. [emoji11]
Cheers Jim

[bee utey]

Has anyone noticed I have ceased to use apostrophes in my posts here? Has their absence caused any problems? Thats how language evolves.

I can't get excited by your cant. [bighmmm]

[4bee]

Right on bee, I had to read that 3 times before it made any sense. Never had to previously.

Maybe I'm a bit t'ick this morning?


Re Jame's post #64 above. I agree. Time's up & time to move on.

As our erstwhile PM said....."A fair suck of the sauce bottle".[smilebigeye]

[LRJim]

Re Jame's post #64 above. I agree. Time's up & time to move on.


I believe the apostrophe lives here... James'
Bloody English language hahaha

[4bee]

Jame's or James'?




No it don't, Jim. [smilebigeye] Bloody hell, please don't start another discussion/altercation/thread, about who was it that moved the bloody thing to the right ffs..



Well I'll be screwed! Purely coincidental that the article used your Mother's favoured name for you BTW.

My apologies old boy, seems you are correct as both can be used. I didn't know it was your birthday. Many Happs.[smilebigeye]


Explanation: Singular words ending in 's' can either end in an apostrophe or 's' to show possession. Example: It is [B]James's birthday or it is James' birthday. Commentary: both James' birthday and James's birthday are grammatically correct.

[DiscoMick]

Maybe no one really gives a ****. Get the **** over it Mick, the apostrophe will be around long after you. Now keep sipping your latte behind your Mac and find the next world changing trend to annoy us all with. [emoji11]
Cheers Jim
Ha ha, you may be right. No Mac here though, Im an Android plebian.

[DiscoMick]

Another example of stupid English grammar is the rule that requires 'an' when the next word starts with a vowel sound (a,e,i,o,u). Seriously, whats wrong with 'a egg?' Does it matter if people don't say, 'an egg?' No, it doesn't. This rule drives foreign language learners of English crazy because it serves no useful purpose (just like apostrophes).

[Zeros]

Another example of stupid English grammar is the rule that requires 'an' when the next word starts with a vowel sound (a,e,i,o,u). Seriously, whats wrong with 'a egg?' Does it matter if people don't say, 'an egg?' No, it doesn't. This rule drives foreign language learners of English crazy because it serves no useful purpose (just like apostrophes).

Why DOUBLE mm in grammar? Why c not k? Why capitals?

While we’re (or is it were?) at it (in either present or past tense...whatever right?) why not pictographs like Chinese characters instead of letters? LOL

[bee utey]

Another example of stupid English grammar is the rule that requires 'an' when the next word starts with a vowel sound (a,e,i,o,u). Seriously, whats wrong with 'a egg?' Does it matter if people don't say, 'an egg?' No, it doesn't. This rule drives foreign language learners of English crazy because it serves no useful purpose (just like apostrophes).

Instead of trying to make ordinary people change the way they use English, perhaps you should just promote Esperanto.

http://aea.esperanto.org.au/

[DiscoMick]

Why DOUBLE mm in grammar? Why c not k? Why capitals?

While we’re (or is it were?) at it (in either present or past tense...whatever right?) why not pictographs like Chinese characters instead of letters? LOLId never remember 3000 pictograms.

[Zeros]

Id never remember 3000 pictograms.

:) Just teasing you Mick. ...I like your lines of enquiry. There aren't enough legal rule breakers in the world. :thumbsup:

[DiscoMick]

Its all good mate.

[LRJim]

Micks got pretty thick skin compared to some on here I must say [emoji106]

[Zeros]

Its all good mate.

cool. im enjoying the banter and your level head.

...i reckon we should first drop the hierarchy of capital letters.

[Fifth Columnist]

Why is everyone so keen on ruining a beautiful language?

[Zeros]

Why is everyone so keen on ruining a beautiful language?

Because it’s clunky, colonial, dull and deeply limiting.

[Fifth Columnist]

Because it’s clunky, colonial, dull and deeply limiting.

Limiting? Never! You just don't bother to use it properly.

[Zeros]

Limiting? Never! You just don't bother to use it properly.


__________|^^|_
(0)========(0)

not one apostrophe! 🙃😎

[Fifth Columnist]

__________|^^|_
(0)========(0)

not one apostrophe! 🙃😎
:lol2:

[RANDLOVER]

........

Whether the increasing dominance of English, that I have observed during my lifetime, continues, largely depends on what happens in world politics rather than anything to do with education or what governments want!

I think the dominant language of the future is going to be computer code, and that's what kids should be taught in school, if they want to learn something useful.

[DiscoMick]

Yep theres a big push on coding. But humans still have to communicate.
Language keeps changing. Try to read Shakespeare - its almost incomprehensible now, like translating.

[rick130]

Another example of stupid English grammar is the rule that requires 'an' when the next word starts with a vowel sound (a,e,i,o,u). Seriously, whats wrong with 'a egg?' Does it matter if people don't say, 'an egg?' No, it doesn't. This rule drives foreign language learners of English crazy because it serves no useful purpose (just like apostrophes).You want crazy?
Try learning German!! [emoji23]

Der, die, das, there are no bloody rules!

[Homestar]

Why is everyone so keen on ruining a beautiful language?

It's already being massacred on a daily basis unfortunately.

[4bee]

By persons who should know better......... ABC presenters. :bat:

[Saitch]

Another example of stupid English grammar is the rule that requires 'an' when the next word starts with a vowel sound (a,e,i,o,u). Seriously, whats wrong with 'a egg?' Does it matter if people don't say, 'an egg?' No, it doesn't. This rule drives foreign language learners of English crazy because it serves no useful purpose (just like apostrophes).

The French language is gender based (how politically incorrect [biggrin]) and, from high school on, I still find that factor difficult and surely, saying "La clown", instead of the correct "Le clown", makes no difference and what about the self explanatory term "L'idiot?".

Also, with the deletion of punctuation, correct grammar, parsing et cetera, my beloved cryptic crosswords will probably face extinction.
Can an anagram or even a crossword for that matter, be constructed in Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic or other languages? I have no idea but how boring if one can't be!

An interesting thread, this! :spudnikconfounded:

[Zeros]

I think the dominant language of the future is going to be computer code, and that's what kids should be taught in school, if they want to learn something useful.

Very good point...while humans quibble over apostrophes the machine learning drones will take over the world. The more compliant and mono-cultural humanity becomes ie: by the whole world becoming English speaking, the easier it will be for the machines of the future to take control [bigwhistle]

[SBD4]

Try to read Shakespeare - its almost incomprehensible now, like translating.

That's because he wasn't using apostrophes![biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

I expect the increasing use of machine voices on answering services and voice commands will also force some changes in everyday English, to make it easier for the machines to understand people.

[Zeros]

I expect the increasing use of machine voices on answering services and voice commands will also force some changes in everyday English, to make it easier for the machines to understand people.

Chip implants will resolve all of that in the near future. ...frightening isn't it?

[DiscoMick]

I read a scientific prediction that voice commands will become so good that we will reach the stage of 'talking to the walls' and our wired houses, offices, workshops etc will respond and display whatever we ask to see.
Imagine a motor mechanic who wants guidance on how to do something, so he just says, 'Show me how to fit a head gasket to a Defender' and a video appears on the wall next to the work bay, so he can just follow the steps.
Imagine if eventually this can be linked to our thinking and it is not even necessary to speak. This is being tried now for people with disabilities.
A brave new world of unlimited information available instantly. Will definitely need the NBN to be fibre not copper though to process all that data.

[Zeros]

This brave new world of unlimited information sounds horrific to me. Even now when I supposedly have to choose to ‘log in’ the constant amount of information bombarding me is too much. I don’t do social media other than aulro, which I like because it doesn’t contact me. I don’t like the constant updates. Any constant talking to walls or automatic information input would drive me away. Voice activation doesn’t interest me at all. Talking to the walls is not for me.

[Homestar]

I read a scientific prediction that voice commands will become so good that we will reach the stage of 'talking to the walls' and our wired houses, offices, workshops etc will respond and display whatever we ask to see.
Imagine a motor mechanic who wants guidance on how to do something, so he just says, 'Show me how to fit a head gasket to a Defender' and a video appears on the wall next to the work bay, so he can just follow the steps.
Imagine if eventually this can be linked to our thinking and it is not even necessary to speak. This is being tried now for people with disabilities.
A brave new world of unlimited information available instantly. Will definitely need the NBN to be fibre not copper though to process all that data.

Maybe you should find a better Mechanic if he needs a video to show him what he needs to do... 😉

[bee utey]

Maybe you should find a better Mechanic if he needs a video to show him what he needs to do... 😉

Had a bloke come by with the first Puma I'd ever looked at, wanted me to change out the rear gearbox seal. Had a squiz at the internet thingy and found a nice piccy tutorial, printed and pinned it up on the wall and had a bash. The "better Mechanic" had quoted $2K for what took me 5 hours and a few parts off Mario, charged the bloke $400.

Nowt wrong with a "better Mechanic" having quality information at his beck and call to ensure he doesn't make rookie mistakes. [biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

We'll be instant experts.

[Homestar]

Had a bloke come by with the first Puma I'd ever looked at, wanted me to change out the rear gearbox seal. Had a squiz at the internet thingy and found a nice piccy tutorial, printed and pinned it up on the wall and had a bash. The "better Mechanic" had quoted $2K for what took me 5 hours and a few parts off Mario, charged the bloke $400.

Nowt wrong with a "better Mechanic" having quality information at his beck and call to ensure he doesn't make rookie mistakes. [biggrin]

Was having a joke as this thread has been nice and lighthearted. 😊. I think we’ve all done the YouTube thing to work out how something comes apart or goes back together. 😇

[LRJim]

This vision if the modern mechanic has been around for a long time.
I bought a copy of the MB star workshop program off e bay a while back. It has ALL the MB vehicles since like 85 when obd2 came out. Just pick your car/truck/unimog/tank anything to do with MB, type in you problem in the search bar and away you go. It's an awsome program it will tell you how to do anything, back to my point like bee said he charged $400 labor and had to Google a few things big deal. Go to MB and pay $400 P/H labor for some apprentice to follow the instructions on the computer, and I mean EVERY instruction. It's actually an amazing program if only all the manufacturer's where so comprehensive.

Cheers Jim

[discorevy]

Had a bloke come by with the first Puma I'd ever looked at, wanted me to change out the rear gearbox seal. Had a squiz at the internet thingy and found a nice piccy tutorial, printed and pinned it up on the wall and had a bash. The "better Mechanic" had quoted $2K for what took me 5 hours and a few parts off Mario, charged the bloke $400.

Nowt wrong with a "better Mechanic" having quality information at his beck and call to ensure he doesn't make rookie mistakes. [biggrin]


the way I see it bee utey , is you have a couple of options now the word's out ( or should that be words out )

1 : set up a stall selling smashed avo's and double mocha spresso chino lattes to make up the deficit of your labours
( ducks... narrowly avoiding a volley of avocado seeds )[biggrin]

2: move location before you find yourself inundated with puma defenders requiring multiple drive train upgrades care of FoMoCo cheese foundry.

If you choose to stay , you may have to consult the internet ( for the first few anyway ) on how to repair the wiring harness's , do the egr delete, replace clutches, heater taps , ducting vcv etc.

back on topic ... why did you want to abolish the apostrophe and keep the exclamation mark DiscoMick?

[DiscoMick]

Exclamation marks do something useful, like question marks. Apostrophes are useless.

[Fifth Columnist]

Apostrophes are useless.Except making sense of what you're reading.

[Chenz]

Frank Zappa put it simply in his song Apostrophe

*(Well then Fido got up off the floor, and he rolled over
and he looked me straight in the eye
And you know what he said?
"Once upon a time, somebody say to me"
This is the dog talkin' now
"What is your, conceptual, continuity?"
"Well I told 'em right then", Fido said
"It should be easy to see
"The crux of the biscuit
is the apostrophe"
Well you know, the man that was talking to the dog
looked at the dog, and he said
Sort of staring in disbelief
"You can't say that"
he said
"It doesn't, and you can't, I won't, and it don't
it hasn't, it isn't, it even ain't, and it shouldn't
it couldn't"
He told him, "No, no, no"
I told him, "Yes, yes, yes"
I said, "I do it all the time
Ain't this boogie a mess"?)*

The poodle bites, the poodle chews it