Running 6b&s to rear anderson plug

[JAYRO]

Well I bought a 2015 TD6 with only 42k on the clock which is a great drive! Now to hook up my caravan.

I'm trying to design a system for running power to a battery in my caravan from an anderson plug mounted near the towball. I spoke to a few people and was suggested to get the SBI12 from redarc which I did. Now I am trying to work out my wiring diagram / plan I see some concern online with using it on a variable alternator. I rang redarc twice. Once the guy mentioned connecting the blue lead (auxillary lead) however over the phone I got lost in the detail and have no idea on wiring. I rang back and the next guy said I should not install it myself and get a auto elec to do it. I rang an auto elec who said, it's simple and you can DIY.... Anyway. I would like to DIY so I can get an understanding of the system before i head outback. but the variable alternator and damaging the BMS is my concern if I stuff up. I've installed a 12v solar offgrid before so ok with some basics, but new to cars.

I also purchased the redarc BCDC1240D which will live next to my 12v caravan battery and handle the power in from the Anderson Plug and the solar on the caravan.

The only wiring diagrams I can see for the blue line on Redarc site is the override and AuX led function. But I am sure the 1st guy said to use it for the D4 install...

Also I had the auto elec say I should run the cable under the chassis. I bought some cable tubing to protect it... will that be ok? Or do I need to run through the interior down the passenger side somehow... Any tips would be much appreciated!

thanks
Jeremy

[eddy]

Probably best to run it inside the body as per Traxide dual battery instructions, in case the body has to come off in the future.

[Konradical]

Probably best to run it inside the body as per Traxide dual battery instructions, in case the body has to come off in the future.As per eddy...

But even simpler would have been to call Traxide and see if he could sell you the wiring set up for his systems. Fits really well and so much so, that unless you were looking for wiring under the bonnet or out the back, it's totally hidden.

[AK83]

Something that's not made entirely clear is, are you intending to use an aux battery in the car?
Sound more like you just want power from the alternator-battery into the DC DC charger(the BCDC1240D unit)?

But not sure .. maybe you already have an Aux battery in the D4?

[DiscoJeffster]

I took the chassis route, but in the event off a body off, will detach from the body to the chassis in preparation to save time and issue.

[drivesafe]

Hi Jeremy and as has been posted above, you need to run your cabling inside your D4, not through the chassis.

Next, even though the D4 does have a variable voltage alternator, there is not one Land Rover, old or new, that requires a DC/DC device in a camper trailer or caravan being towed by a Land Rover.

With a single battery and a 40 amp DC/DC device, you will recharge a low 100Ah battery to it’s absorption stage, slightly quicker than your alternator.

But if you find you need another battery, your alternator will have two batteries up to their absorption stage hours quicker than your 40 amp DC/DC device can.

Your DC/DC device is a waste of money and if you think it is good value because it has a solar input, this to is also a waste of time, because, with a caravan, you more than likely have solar on the roof.

With a DC/DC device, you only get one choice, and that is a maximum of 40 amps for recharging batteries, regardless of whether the input supply is coming from your alternator or the solar panels, or both.

But with alternator direct charging and a separate solar regulator, you can have two charging sources working at the same time and with this setup, your alternator and solar panels will easily recharge your single battery much quicker than your 40 amp DC/DC device could ever do.

[Turtle60]

Concur with taxide comments above from someone who has walked the talk on this set up. After totally failing to get a charge to my camper batteries with the existing setup, which simply was a dual battery with under bonnet red arc isolator to a dual battery in the rear of our camper I sort advice from Tim whose simple and easy advice was upgrade the cable as I had a 12 metre run (24 actually). Too much voltage drop.
My knowledge was and is still low on 12 volt but learning heaps.
I massively up graded the cables to the rear Anderson plug and also changed out the pathetically underdone camper wiring and now get 14.2 - 14.4V at the camper batteries with no dc dc charger in sight. Perfect.
one thing to make it easier I just grounded the rear (-) close underneath to save running a pair of BIG cables all the way to underbonnet isolator. No problems thus far at all but Tim may chime in here.
Your set up will work but use big cables to start with and be done with it. At least you have a 40 amp redarc. Anything less and you are virtually throttling DOWN charging potential quite significantly. Why have a 160 amp alternator that with big cable can deliver this and then put a device in line to effectively limit the output to ( in most cases) 20 amps. Never made sense to me.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Save all that money and just install solar panels.
Do it right and you never have to worry about Caravan power again. [wink11]

[Geedublya]

Save all that money and just install solar panels.
Do it right and you never have to worry about Caravan power again. [wink11]

Until your parked in the shade or get a week of rain.

[JAYRO]

hi all, and thanks for the replies so far.

The main issue I really have at this stage is how to run the 6b&s cable from under the bonnet to the tow bar. I read as much as I could find last night and now understand the arguments of chassis or not, however I'm still stuck at stage one... if I run it through the interior where does it enter and leave from?? Are there any online instructions / pdf's? I read that some people are going driver side, however the battery bay is passenger side so thought that was a waste of a metre in cable. Can anyone break it down for me a little more?

As far as my plans go, I'm not running an aux battery in the car, but rather one in the caravan. I went the Redarc 40amp charger option for a few reasons, firstly I liked how this one switches between alternator and solar sources to maintain 40amps. I also thought from having set up off grid 12v before that it wasn't a good idea to hardwire the batteries with a direct unregulated feed. The alternator to battery direct I thought would be unstable with voltage and also throw out the accuracy of any solar regulator. i.e. it's not reading the true battery condition when being charged.

I also have a 3 way fridge in the van which I will run off gas, but would like the option to connect the cars rear Anderson plug to when travelling with an isolator to cut out when under voltage. Keep the fridge topped up at least... See how that goes ;) So although the Redarc charger and isolator maybe overkill, but it gives me flexibility going forwards in how I use the system and also if I decide to upgrade anything later. I'm putting in 600w of solar and will upgrade the caravan batteries to 200amp, so will likely be fine with solar alone.

Jayro

[101RRS]

I ran the one cable from my battery along the top of the chassis (not inside it) to an anderson plug at the rear. I do not use a DC DC charger and the smart alternator works fine in charging the van battery.

As my cable is connected direct to my starter battery, as i understand it the alternator sees the two batteries in parallel as one battery and provides charge accordingly - irrespective of whether i am right or wrong on that the van battery gets charged fine and there are no issues in the car.

On the basis of my experience i do not see the need for a Dc Dc charger.

Garry

[DiscoJeffster]

I ran the one cable from my battery along the top of the chassis (not inside it) to an anderson plug at the rear. I do not use a DC DC charger and the smart alternator works fine in charging the van battery.

As my cable is connected direct to my starter battery, as i understand it the alternator sees the two batteries in parallel as one battery and provides charge accordingly - irrespective of whether i am right or wrong on that the van battery gets charged fine and there are no issues in the car.

On the basis of my experience i do not see the need for a Dc Dc charger.

Garry

I have the identical setup other than I ran a twin 6b&s and earthed back at the front on the earth point. I always arrive with fully charge camper batteries (200ah). When I arrive I always disconnect the vehicle from the camper so I always have a fully charged vehicle. I don’t have a fridge in the car, but in the camper, hence this simple setup works a treat. Tbh I have a 50amp circuit breaker on that cable so I’m effectively limited to that charge current, peaks aside.

Finally I am mindful that I start my car before connecting the camper when the camper batteries are really low, so I don’t drain the juice from the starter battery before I’ve started the vehicle.

[AK83]

....

As far as my plans go, I'm not running an aux battery in the car, but rather one in the caravan. ....

So it sounds like you want to give it the ability to charge from the alternator as well as from the solar panels.
Sounds like you're using the DCDC charger more like an MPPT charge controller and probably have unregulated solar panels for the van?

If this is the case, then the only issue I reckon you will have with your intended setup is that the 6B&S cable is going to be far too small if the auxillary battery(s) are back at the van only if you did want to use the over ride feature(blue wire).
Unless you use larger cabling to the van battery(in effect your aux battery), the 6B&S is not going to give any power, and may even make a jump start worse.
I'd leave the blue wire disconnected other than if you simply want the LED feature somewhere in the cabin as a visual aid on whether the SBI12 is active or not.

[AK83]

The other thing that just came to mind was that if you did set up your system in the manner assumed above, with the SBI12 sending power down the 6B&S cable to the rear anderson plug, remember that the SBI12 isn't a smart device, and it really only senses the voltage on the main battery in the car.
So, even if you have nothing connected to the anderson plug(ie. no van, no battery.. nothing!) it will still be active for as long as the main battery is above 12.7volts.
So you'd want to make sure that anderson plug is well isolated.

[JAYRO]

The other thing that just came to mind was that if you did set up your system in the manner assumed above, with the SBI12 sending power down the 6B&S cable to the rear anderson plug, remember that the SBI12 isn't a smart device, and it really only senses the voltage on the main battery in the car.
So, even if you have nothing connected to the anderson plug(ie. no van, no battery.. nothing!) it will still be active for as long as the main battery is above 12.7volts.
So you'd want to make sure that anderson plug is well isolated.

Hmm I might need to double check as I thought the override aux blue wire on the SBI12 would allow it to only work when ignition is on. Connecting blue wire to the +'ve ignition feed ( fuse 6 is a spare activated from ignition) I am going to use a home made "tap in" fuse to make it a smart device... Hope my plan there is correct? Otherwise yes you'd be right.

I also just got in from cabling the 6b&s. It wasn't that bad or hard afterall ( panic first eh) ... a few tips for the next person who wants to run it as I did and others have suggested above the chassis. 1. get a length yellow tongue to pull the cable and flexi conduit through. 2. I used some cable lube 3. Lower the spare tyre before trying to navigate the holes in the tow bar area. I ended up using a large drill bit to widen the exit hole. 4. Lots of cable ties.

[AK83]

Hmm I might need to double check as I thought the override aux blue wire on the SBI12 would allow it to only work when ignition is on. ....

No!
blue wire is for adding an led for visual confirmation that it's working(active) and wire a switch in parallel to create a manual activating system.
That is:
when the main batt has reached 12.7v the SB always comes on, no matter what you have fitted at the 'aux' end of the system.
It barely even knows that there is an 'aux' item there. you could connect almost anything that requires a 12+ volt load. It doesnt' know.
Not 100% sure how it works internally, but it just senses that you have 12.7 volt on the main battery and that's really about it.

with the blue wire, only thing it does is that when the main battery is below 12.7v, is that if you ground it(that is touch the blue wire to ground .. which is what a switch will do) .. it then manually activates the SBI12 where it otherwise isnt' active. .. ie. the jump start feature.
The idea of it is, if you had an aux battery in the car(or even the caravan) .. the blue wires forces the SBI12 to connect the otherwise unconnected batteries and it gives you a jump start ability where you don't need to get out and use jumper cables.

Works good too if your starter battery has issues(which they can do).

But don't connect the blue wire to ign on the car. Dunno what may happen ...I'd guess it's protected somehow in the SBI12, but you don't want to find out.
If you want to test it, it's simples just to connect stuff rough and cut to see how it works.
Wire in the main battery, don't start the car. I assume your battery may have settled below 12.7volts.
Make sure you connect the main battery to the main battery terminal on the SBI12. it's quite easy to attach it to the aux terminal, so be 100% sure.
brown wire goes to ground/earth.
Then you see that the blue wire has a spade terminal with a very long protective plastic sleeve.
If you have connected the batt to it's spot on the SB and the brown wire to ground, the SB is is now 'working'.
If you start the car to get the main batt charging, the red light on the SB will come on.
But! before you do this, if you ground the blue spade terminal to earth, you will hear the clunk of the solenoid contact coming on, and the red light come on. I think it stays on for about 8 sec or so and will automagically turn back off again.. ie push button jump starting.

The idea is, if your battery drops down to say 10v or so, and it won't start the car, you push the switch and it then connects the aux battery, you 'supposedly' start the car .. off you go .. to the battery store.
!! doesn't always work tho.
I have 1B&S cable from SB to both batteries, both in engine bay.
Early this year, I had my start battery drop a cell. batt showing 10.9v, but on start dropped well below that.
Tried to use the push start feature but didn't work(well it did work, but not help!)
Reason: main batter deadder than a dodo. 1B&S is good for well over 400 amps! problem is, that the SBI12 is only 80amp capable, so will only allow 80amps through that 400 amp capable wire.
All I did was attach a nice strong jumper cable from aux positive to main positive terminal(remember they're both grounded) and off I went .. to the battery store .. to get stuffed around!(long story .. my bad).

it does work tho. Over winter when really cold(freezing) this stupid Century I have as my main doesn't have the juice to give me preheat and start the engine 'quickly'. So over winter I use the blue wire feature quite a lot [thumbsupbig]

If I were doing what you want to do, I'd not connect the SBI12 at all. I'd be inclined to add a manual solenoid which gives you manual control over whether the rear anderson plug is powered or not. Even a simple thing like a 80-100Amp trip fuse, that you can manually trip yourself to turn off, and then reset when you have the van attached.
But if you do really want to add the SB, then I reckon you'd still be wise to add an auto tripping fuse(with manual override.. ie. just a test button) .. ie. to the aux terminal on the SB to the cabling to the anderson plug.
You can get them from ebay or jaycar or wherever ...

[Disco4Dave]

I found it too hard to run the 6B&S through the interior of my D4 and ended up going via the chassis to the rear tow point, but added a separate 8B&S run through the car for the rear cargo area.

[drivesafe]

Hi Arthur and not sure where you are getting your info from but the SBI12 turns on at 13.2v and turns off at 12.7v

Next, it is a 100 amp continuos rated solenoid, not 80.

6B&S cable is the perfect size cable for charging banks of batteries in a caravan or camper trailer. I have measured 60+ amps going into low house batteries from a D4.

You are wasting your time if you think you can jump start a vehicle, any vehicle, with a low or flat cranking battery, using house batteries as the assist. NOT going to happen.

Furthermore, something most people are unaware of, if your cranking battery has dropped a cell, you can not jump start from another battery, even if the battery is next to your cranking battery. You will need to jump start from another vehicle, with it’s motor running.

[drivesafe]

I found it too hard to run the 6B&S through the interior of my D4 and ended up going via the chassis to the rear tow point, but added a separate 8B&S run through the car for the rear cargo area.
Hi Dave, the D3 and D4 are the easiest vehicle I have ever come across to run twin 6B&S cabling through.

If you run cabling of any form along or through the chassis, you must make sure you know they are not going to do any body-off servicing or you are going to have to replace the damaged cabling when you get your D4 back.

[JAYRO]

I got in touch with Redarc and they say :

" As the Land Rover Discovery uses a variable voltage alternator, the BCDC1240D (https://www.redarc.com.au/dual-input-40a-in-vehicle-dc-battery-charger) will require an ignition switched feed to the blue trigger wire.
This changes the input voltage range to suit the lower voltage normally produced by this type of alternator. One way to do this is to run a fused, ignition switched positive feed through the vehicle, through the trailer plug, and then connect to the blue input trigger wire."

or what I am thinking :

" An alternative method ... is to have your Anderson plug feed to the back of the vehicle run through an SBI12 (https://www.redarc.com.au/smart-start-sbi-12v-100a). The SBI12 (https://www.redarc.com.au/smart-start-sbi-12v-100a) override wire then requires connection to a fused, ignition switched positive feed. This then disregards the voltage sensitive thresholds normally utilised by an SBI12 (https://www.redarc.com.au/smart-start-sbi-12v-100a) (Until the ignition positive feed is removed, in which case it will disconnect the Anderson plug at 12.7V). Once this override is connected, the blue input trigger wire may be connected directly to the red input wire of the BCDC1240D (https://www.redarc.com.au/dual-input-40a-in-vehicle-dc-battery-charger), as it is now ignition controlled."

after asking for a little more clarification :
..." there will be a 60A MIDI fused input from the battery positive terminal to the “Start Terminal” of the SBI12, and your Anderson plug will be connected to the “Auxiliary Terminal”. Black earthed to common ground, and blue “Override” wire will then be connected to your spare fuse tap.

So... in short it seems a little over kill they way I have planned to set it up, however it seems that it'll make the caravan charger ignition controlled whilst protecting starter battery for below 12.7v.

[Aussie Jeepster]

Hi Dave, the D3 and D4 are the easiest vehicle I have ever come across to run twin 6B&S cabling through.

If you run cabling of any form along or through the chassis, you must make sure you know they are not going to do any body-off servicing or you are going to have to replace the damaged cabling when you get your D4 back.

Or if you do run it along/in the chassis, put an anderson plug in the line to be able to unplug it perhaps?? Would that work?

[drivesafe]

I got in touch with Redarc and they say :

" As the Land Rover Discovery uses a variable voltage alternator, the BCDC1240D (https://www.redarc.com.au/dual-input-40a-in-vehicle-dc-battery-charger) will require an ignition switched feed to the blue trigger wire.
Hi again Jeremy and once again, you do not need a DC/DC device as your D4 alternator will easily equal what that 40 amp DC/DC unit can do with one battery and, as you have mentioned, there is a possibility of you adding a second battery.


If you do that, then your DC/DC device will take many hours more to recharge low batteries as compared to what your alternator can do by itself.


This is FACT, not selling fiction!


The reason I know this to be factual is because there are over 4,500 D3s and D4s with my dual battery systems fitted, and not just here in Australia. I have customers throughout the Middle East, with the high temperatures there and many customers in Arctic countries like Finland, Estonia, Sweden Norway and Canada, even in these cold climate countries, no one needs a DC/DC device because their D3s and D4s work better at charging batteries, even banks of batteries, better than a DC/DC device can.


The only time you need a DC/DC device with a D3 or D4 ( or any other vehicle ) is when you are fitting Lead Crystal Batteries or Lithium batteries, and when people genuinely need DC/DC devices, I supply Sterling Battery to Battery chargers as these are the only DC/DC devices that work properly at charging these sorts of batteries.


Next, my isolators do not turn off at 12.7v, they turn off at 12.0v, giving you an additional 45Ah of usable accessories power. With my setup you probably would not need an additional house battery capacity and you could replace the battery energy you used in about half the time your DC/DC device could ever do it in.

[drivesafe]

I also thought from having set up off grid 12v before that it wasn't a good idea to hardwire the batteries with a direct unregulated feed. The alternator to battery direct I thought would be unstable with voltage and also throw out the accuracy of any solar regulator. i.e. it's not reading the true battery condition when being charged.

Jayro
I ment to correct this earlier. It is an industry standard to connect all the charge sources direct to the battery and everything will work perfectly.


You can have a direct connection from your alternator, you can have a solar regulator and a 240VAC battery charger, all connected to your house batteries, and when on the road, your alternator and solar panels will be recharge your batteries while you drive and when at a powered site, during the day, your battery charger and solar panels will again recharging your house batteries together.


It is never a good idea to try to run a 3 way fridge while trying to recharge house batteries. The fridge will just cause too much voltage drop.


Depending on the size of your 3 way fridge, you could use the FRIDGE circuit in your S12 ( White ) plug at the rear of your D4.


This is a brilliant setup because it is only powered up while the motor is actually running.

[AK83]

Hi Arthur and not sure where you are getting your info from but the SBI12 turns on at 13.2v and turns off at 12.7v

Next, it is a 100 amp continuos rated solenoid, not 80.

.....

Apologies, you're correct .. my bad re the on volts and max continuous current.
Forgot the specs.
Didn't know that it turns on at 13.2, never tested that bit, I just note it always on at 12.7 .. which as you say is the off voltage(ie. my bad assuming it's the on voltage too).



....

" An alternative method ... is to have your Anderson plug feed to the back of the vehicle run through an SBI12 (https://www.redarc.com.au/smart-start-sbi-12v-100a). The SBI12 (https://www.redarc.com.au/smart-start-sbi-12v-100a) override wire then requires connection to a fused, ignition switched positive feed. This then disregards the voltage sensitive thresholds normally utilised by an SBI12 (https://www.redarc.com.au/smart-start-sbi-12v-100a) (Until the ignition positive feed is removed, in which case it will disconnect the Anderson plug at 12.7V). Once this override is connected, the blue input trigger wire may be connected directly to the red input wire of the BCDC1240D (https://www.redarc.com.au/dual-input-40a-in-vehicle-dc-battery-charger), as it is now ignition controlled."

after asking for a little more clarification :
..." there will be a 60A MIDI fused input from the battery positive terminal to the “Start Terminal” of the SBI12, and your Anderson plug will be connected to the “Auxiliary Terminal”. Black earthed to common ground, and blue “Override” wire will then be connected to your spare fuse tap.

So... in short it seems a little over kill they way I have planned to set it up, however it seems that it'll make the caravan charger ignition controlled whilst protecting starter battery for below 12.7v.



Nothing in their literature about the blue over ride wire on the SB, neither the old paper instruction sheet, not the PDF version(the two sheets have slight differences) but specs and install instructions basically the same.
Interesting to know that a 12v feed into the blue wire will override the voltage sensing component of the SBI12.
Did they make any mention of the ability to connect an LED to the blue wire as normal to indicate that the SB is actually connected if you do connect the blue wire to ign?

That is, if you had it set up that way, where ignition controlled the SB's on state, if it failed(someone recently commented that theirs failed) .. you'd never know if it was sending power to the anderson plug.
I'd still be 'worried' about having the anderson plug active when not in use.
A good starter battery will hold 12.7volts for quite a long while.
Fitted brothers TD5 with a dual battery setup a while ago, and got him two Optima batteries to go with it all.
His redtop Optima hold 12.7v itself easily over night.
When connected with the Redarc (we used one on his too), it held 12.7 volts for close to 2 days.. I had his D2 at my place for two weeks and played around with it a little.
My Century battery tho(10 months old now) will hold 12.7v on a mild night for maybe 6-8 hrs before it finally drops.

Interesting reading .. learned somethign new, and also got back up to speed with correct specs too!
And I agree with Tim .. re the DC DC charger philosophy .. but if you're using the Redarc DCDC charger as the MPPT controller for van's solar, then it also makes sense what you're doing too.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Until your parked in the shade or get a week of rain.

only silly people park beneath trees,, [wink11]

and its surprising just how much charge you get even on a rainy day,,

[Disco4Dave]

Hi Dave, the D3 and D4 are the easiest vehicle I have ever come across to run twin 6B&S cabling through.
If you run cabling of any form along or through the chassis, you must make sure you know they are not going to do any body-off servicing or you are going to have to replace the damaged cabling when you get your D4 back.
Tim,
I have no doubt you are right about the ease of cabling the D3/D4, but unfortunately I struggled, and ended up running 8B&S instead. More a statement about me than the car.
Yes, the need to make mechanics aware of the chassis cable run in the case of body-off work is a concern, but it is a risk I am ok with. The cable run is of-course protected at the battery, and so the worst case is that I have to patch or replace the 6B&S run.
As always, thanks for your thoughts Tim

[drivesafe]

Hi Dave and while I only run cabling through the cab, as you have already run your 8B&S along the chassis, if you want to up the cable size, your do not have to replace the 8B&S.


Simply run another length of 8B&S parallel to the existing cabling. This will take your 8B&S ( 7.9mm2 x 2 ) to just under 16mm2.


As for Jeremy, I have to be honest here and say I am sorry he has been mislead, and by the sounds of it, by a few different people. And following their “misleading” advice, he has spent a lot money and ended up with a setup that falls short of an optimum charging system, based on what his D4 can do.


There is a lot of B/S advice about what is needed when a vehicle has a Variable Voltage Alternator Operation, and most vehicles now have some form of this. But many of these vehicles still do not need DC/DC device, Especially none of the Land Rovers ( DS is an exception but for a different reason ).


I am now supplying kits for the D5s and they are working so well that I now have two dealerships making enquires because of how well they are working in some of their customer’s D5s.


Anyway, I hope Jeremy gets his setup sorted to what he wants.

[Russrobe]

Have no idea how you could struggle running cable through a D4 by following the Traxide instructions :O the hardest part was trying not to lose those damn metal clips.

Who on earth would cut out at 12.7V? lol That's the voltage of a 100% charged battery.

[DiscoJeffster]

Have no idea how you could struggle running cable through a D4 by following the Traxide instructions :O the hardest part was trying not to lose those damn metal clips.

Who on earth would cut out at 12.7V? lol That's the voltage of a 100% charged battery.

Not all people have bought a traxide kit so are not following their advice. Plus it gets pretty busy through that grommet with heaps of accessories

[AK83]

....

Who on earth would cut out at 12.7V? lol That's the voltage of a 100% charged battery.

Makes sense when the one and only priority is to keep the main battery as fully charged as it can be.
But I've said in other threads too ... in reality it does seem a bit silly, and I prefer Traxside's lower voltage cutout too.

Once the redarc does isolate, the main battery I have drops faster than it does whilst connected(to the aux battery).,
That is, the aux battery seems to be 'holding up' the condition of the main battery.
Overnight, and then late next morning I notice the main is at about 12.4v, but the aux more like 12.5 - 12.6v

[weeds]

Have no idea how you could struggle running cable through a D4 by following the Traxide instructions :O the hardest part was trying not to lose those damn metal clips.

Who on earth would cut out at 12.7V? lol That's the voltage of a 100% charged battery.

I’m more than happy to keep my start battery at 100%, the added capacity for fridges and lights and inverter and everything else that seems to be the minimum still hasn’t tempted me these days, we get by quite well with on 100amp/hr battery while camping/touring ....

I don’t own a D4 but from what I read you could get yourself into trouble pretty quick once your starter is at 12V and you start opening doors and waking the computers up??

Either way traxide gear is good along with tims advice.....I used to run his isolator in my old defer

I now run a simple redarc isolator in my defer and work cars.....never had any issues with charging it starts going flat.

I’ve never been tempted to purchase a DC-DC or BC-DC.......although i am looking st lithium batteries

[drivesafe]

I’m more than happy to keep my start battery at 100%, the added capacity for fridges and lights and inverter and everything else that seems to be the minimum still hasn’t tempted me these days, we get by quite well with on 100amp/hr battery while camping/touring ....I don’t own a D4 but from what I read you could get yourself into trouble pretty quick once your starter is at 12V and you start opening doors and waking the computers up??
Yep this is a major potential problem, more so with D4s but to a lesser degree, also with D3s. Continually going to the vehicle and causing the computers to wakeup so many times that the cranking battery is discharged to a level where it can not start the motor is a common problem


The issue of ending up with a flat cranking battery while camping, is actually more likely if you do not have one of my systems fitted and even if you do end up with a flat cranking battery, the D4 can usually be started from the auxiliary battery because in this type of situation, my isolator has worked in reverse.


From feedback from customers and first hand experience, D4s fitted with my systems are far less likely to suffer from a low cranking battery after a weekend away, for a number of reasons.


The main reason is that weeks before you even go away, my system is working at keeping your cranking battery in a higher state of charge possible, than it would be in a D4 without one of my systems fitted.


Right from when you first start your motor, with any other DBS or no DBS at all, 100% of the energy required to start your motor comes from your cranking battery. Which is how it normally is.


With one of my systems fitted, because my isolators keep the batteries connected for up to days at a time, 25% or more, of the energy required to start your motor will come from the auxiliary battery.


This one single advantage means that your engine is going to be easier to start, your cranking battery has not had to work as hard as it normally would thus helping to extend the cranking battery’s lifespan.


But more importantly, because the cranking battery has not been discharged as low as it would need to be in a single battery setup, you will be able to replace the energy used while starting the motor, in a shorter drive time and now days, with many of these vehicles being used for lots short drives, this one feature/advantage, is helping to keep cranking batteries in a higher state of charge.


While your are driving round town, because the D4 alternator has such a huge current capacity alternator, both batteries are easily charged, even during short drives.


Now when you have finished driving for the day, we come to another feature/advantage of the way my systems work.


Regardless of whether it has been short or long drives, when you turn off your motor, the auxiliary battery, an Optima D34 Yellowtop in 99% of D3 and D4 setups, will always be in a higher state of charge than your cranking battery.


Shortly after you turn off your motor, because the batteries remain connected, and as the Optima is in a higher state of charge, the Optima S-L-O-W-L-Y back discharges into the cranking battery.


This slow back discharge not only helps to keep the cranking battery in a higher state of charge, but over a period of time, usually just a few weeks, it will also bring the battery up to a much better condition. And this means the battery maintains a higher capacity.


This all means that wth your battery being in a far better condition, you will actually replace the energy used while starting your motor, in an even shorter drive time.


And all of this occurs before you even start your holiday trip. It also means that you can go to your D4 more times while stopped, before you flatten your cranking battery.


But add to this, because the batteries are connected, you can access your D4 even more time before your cranking battery gets that low that it will not start your motor.


No other system offers these benefits and reduces the risk of a flat cranking battery while camping, and most other systems are a lot dearer.


Sorry for hijacking your thread Jeremy, but lots of people will be reading it and unfortunately you have been given some pretty woeful advice and others need to be able to see there are better ways to achieve what you are trying to do, with out the potential problems that can occur.


I wish you the best and hope your system meets your needs.

[Aaron IIA]

As a keen electronics experimenter, I agree with everything that Tim (drivesafe) has said. I have no association with him, other than being on this forum. My personal setup is a D1 with two blue top optima batteries permanently connected in parallel. No dual battery isolator. I leave my fridge running in the car at all times, but I do have a 170W solar panel permanently mounted on the roof running through a real MPPT regulator. This suits my needs. If I had a more modern car or one without a solar panel, I would definitely only use one of Tim's isolators.

Aaron

[Russrobe]

I've flattened my starter completely twice while installing accessories or polishing in the driveway, never while camping though (even though we've lived out of it for 6 weeks straight). It's pretty hard to do, you need to have the radio on for about 45 minutes straight, and there's a 20 minutes accessory timeout to prevent it getting to that point (at which i turned it back on). When camping you just throw everything in the boot, lock the doors and click unlock on the tailgate, leaving it slightly ajar. Will never have a problem camping if you do that.

If you're doing remote, sole vehicle travel, you're going to be carrying a jump starter of some sort anyway, especially seeing as they come in forms no bigger than your hand now. And if you're not, there's always someone nearby who can jumpstart you (pretty hard to find a place without at least a few other vehicles).

Benefits far outweigh the potential, likely never to happen negative.

If you don't trust a battery to do its job, that is run through a cycle, you probably need a better battery. Reality is that quality batteries are just as likely to die without cycling as they are with, so you're doing nothing accept waste money on the extra AH you're going to need in auxiliary batteries.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Not sure if this helps, but my set up is as follows;

Single main battery under bonnet (new battery in 2018), connected to an Intervolt smart isolator (solid state, programmable), 40amp in-line fuse, running 6b&s under the car, tucked up high in the chassis, this appears out the back next to the factory 7 pin connectors to a 50 amp Anderson plug, tucked in behind the tow cover, so when not towing it’s not visible. This plugs into the camper’s lead. The camper also connects to the factory 7 pin plug to run the lights etc. The 50 amp Anderson runs directly to the single 120A/h AGM battery in the camper and keeps this charged up when driving.

The Intervolt only connects the campers AGM battery for charging when the alternator output is high enough (this is programable with the Intervolt). I.e. disconnected for starting the car, and disconnects when the campers battery reaches full charge. Through the battery management system in the camper, I run the 3 way fridge on 12v when driving, (as I understand it is illegal to run the fridge on gas when moving).

The Intervolt means I don’t have to manually disconnect the car from the camper when stopped underway, and we keep the camper battery fully charged. I also have a Korr Lighting 200w folding solar panel, this plugs into the same Anderson plug of the camper to keep the battery topped up when camped. This has a MPPT controller and about 10m of cable.

At the moment with this set up we can run about 5 days off the grid with the camper battery, (fridge on gas) and I maintain the cars main battery, and I can top up the camper battery with solar each and every day.

No issues with this for the past 2 years.

Cheers,

Eric

[DiscoJeffster]

The Intervolt looks good and well priced.

[drivesafe]

Once the redarc does isolate, the main battery I have drops faster than it does whilst connected(to the aux battery).,
That is, the aux battery seems to be 'holding up' the condition of the main battery.
Overnight, and then late next morning I notice the main is at about 12.4v, but the aux more like 12.5 - 12.6v
Hi Arthur and sorry I missed this post.


With your cranking battery settling back to 12.4v is actually quite good because it is commonplace to see 12.2v in many vehicles.


12.4v puts your cranking battery at around 80% SoC and your auxiliary battery at well over 90% and again, these are pretty good readings.


This chart will help with the State of Charge relating to battery voltage.

http://www.traxide.com.au/DATA/S_SoC_Table.jpg

[oldsalt]

Yep this is a major potential problem, more so with D4s but to a lesser degree, also with D3s. Continually going to the vehicle and causing the computers to wakeup so many times that the cranking battery is discharged to a level where it can not start the motor is a common problem


The issue of ending up with a flat cranking battery while camping, is actually more likely if you do not have one of my systems fitted and even if you do end up with a flat cranking battery, the D4 can usually be started from the auxiliary battery because in this type of situation, my isolator has worked in reverse.


From feedback from customers and first hand experience, D4s fitted with my systems are far less likely to suffer from a low cranking battery after a weekend away, for a number of reasons.


The main reason is that weeks before you even go away, my system is working at keeping your cranking battery in a higher state of charge possible, than it would be in a D4 without one of my systems fitted.


Right from when you first start your motor, with any other DBS or no DBS at all, 100% of the energy required to start your motor comes from your cranking battery. Which is how it normally is.


With one of my systems fitted, because my isolators keep the batteries connected for up to days at a time, 25% or more, of the energy required to start your motor will come from the auxiliary battery.


This one single advantage means that your engine is going to be easier to start, your cranking battery has not had to work as hard as it normally would thus helping to extend the cranking battery’s lifespan.


But more importantly, because the cranking battery has not been discharged as low as it would need to be in a single battery setup, you will be able to replace the energy used while starting the motor, in a shorter drive time and now days, with many of these vehicles being used for lots short drives, this one feature/advantage, is helping to keep cranking batteries in a higher state of charge.


While your are driving round town, because the D4 alternator has such a huge current capacity alternator, both batteries are easily charged, even during short drives.


Now when you have finished driving for the day, we come to another feature/advantage of the way my systems work.


Regardless of whether it has been short or long drives, when you turn off your motor, the auxiliary battery, an Optima D34 Yellowtop in 99% of D3 and D4 setups, will always be in a higher state of charge than your cranking battery.


Shortly after you turn off your motor, because the batteries remain connected, and as the Optima is in a higher state of charge, the Optima S-L-O-W-L-Y back discharges into the cranking battery.


This slow back discharge not only helps to keep the cranking battery in a higher state of charge, but over a period of time, usually just a few weeks, it will also bring the battery up to a much better condition. And this means the battery maintains a higher capacity.


This all means that wth your battery being in a far better condition, you will actually replace the energy used while starting your motor, in an even shorter drive time.


And all of this occurs before you even start your holiday trip. It also means that you can go to your D4 more times while stopped, before you flatten your cranking battery.


But add to this, because the batteries are connected, you can access your D4 even more time before your cranking battery gets that low that it will not start your motor.


No other system offers these benefits and reduces the risk of a flat cranking battery while camping, and most other systems are a lot dearer.


Sorry for hijacking your thread Jeremy, but lots of people will be reading it and unfortunately you have been given some pretty woeful advice and others need to be able to see there are better ways to achieve what you are trying to do, with out the potential problems that can occur.


I wish you the best and hope your system meets your needs.

Is there some "simple" way to stop this happening ?, maybe a big red switch which isolates the fuse responsible for the "waking up" procedure... This may sound
a bit simplistic but "why the hell" does the car need to keep checking ?... this seems to be an achilles heel to the Landrovers... I've parked the car...I'm happy with it's "level"...so just
let me get on with camping without being worried that the damn onboard computer is going to ruin my day !!!!!
I appreciate the "solution" given re putting all your gear in the boot but I have gear spread throughout the car and that's the way I camp - I don't want to arrive at a campsite and have to pile everything in the boot just because my car likes to "wake-up" every time I open a door...!!!!
I't times like this that I miss my old kombi... it may not have been able to get to the places my D3 can...BUT...when I turned the key off it stayed off !!!!
rant over....
cheers

[Aussie Jeepster]

Is there some "simple" way to stop this happening ?, maybe a big red switch which isolates the fuse responsible for the "waking up" procedure... This may sound
a bit simplistic but "why the hell" does the car need to keep checking ?... this seems to be an achilles heel to the Landrovers... I've parked the car...I'm happy with it's "level"...so just
let me get on with camping without being worried that the damn onboard computer is going to ruin my day !!!!!
I appreciate the "solution" given re putting all your gear in the boot but I have gear spread throughout the car and that's the way I camp - I don't want to arrive at a campsite and have to pile everything in the boot just because my car likes to "wake-up" every time I open a door...!!!!
I't times like this that I miss my old kombi... it may not have been able to get to the places my D3 can...BUT...when I turned the key off it stayed off !!!!
rant over....
cheers

I agree totally!

[drivesafe]

Is there some "simple" way to stop this happening ?, maybe a big red switch which isolates the fuse responsible for the "waking up" procedure... This may sound
a bit simplistic but "why the hell" does the car need to keep checking ?... this seems to be an achilles heel to the Landrovers... I've parked the car...I'm happy with it's "level"...so just
let me get on with camping without being worried that the damn onboard computer is going to ruin my day !!!!!
I appreciate the "solution" given re putting all your gear in the boot but I have gear spread throughout the car and that's the way I camp - I don't want to arrive at a campsite and have to pile everything in the boot just because my car likes to "wake-up" every time I open a door...!!!!
I't times like this that I miss my old kombi... it may not have been able to get to the places my D3 can...BUT...when I turned the key off it stayed off !!!!
rant over....
cheers
You obviously don’t have any children with you[smilebigeye]

[DiscoJeffster]

Is there some "simple" way to stop this happening ?, maybe a big red switch which isolates the fuse responsible for the "waking up" procedure... This may sound
a bit simplistic but "why the hell" does the car need to keep checking ?... this seems to be an achilles heel to the Landrovers... I've parked the car...I'm happy with it's "level"...so just
let me get on with camping without being worried that the damn onboard computer is going to ruin my day !!!!!
I appreciate the "solution" given re putting all your gear in the boot but I have gear spread throughout the car and that's the way I camp - I don't want to arrive at a campsite and have to pile everything in the boot just because my car likes to "wake-up" every time I open a door...!!!!
I't times like this that I miss my old kombi... it may not have been able to get to the places my D3 can...BUT...when I turned the key off it stayed off !!!!
rant over....
cheers

Is this where I offer to buy your vehicle from you and post a link to a kombi? They’re available, it’s an easy switchover?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Is there some "simple" way to stop this happening ?, maybe a big red switch which isolates the fuse responsible for the "waking up" procedure..

I normally leave a couple of windows open (if the weather is good) during the day, and I get the kids to take all their stuff into the camper. This limits the amount of wake ups.

[PerthDisco]

Assuming that the trick of isolating the interior lights from coming on by pushing and holding the middle button has no impact on telling the car not to wake up?

Clearly the double flash is a sign of some computer acknowledging the request.

[AGRO]

This topic has been mentioned many times over the years.

Leave one door slightly ajar and the vehicle electronics will shut down.

I usually leave the drivers door ajar as I've observed that other occupants usually don't have the necessary skills not to slam doors.

[biggin]

Concur with taxide comments above from someone who has walked the talk on this set up. After totally failing to get a charge to my camper batteries with the existing setup, which simply was a dual battery with under bonnet red arc isolator to a dual battery in the rear of our camper I sort advice from Tim whose simple and easy advice was upgrade the cable as I had a 12 metre run (24 actually). Too much voltage drop.
My knowledge was and is still low on 12 volt but learning heaps.
I massively up graded the cables to the rear Anderson plug and also changed out the pathetically underdone camper wiring and now get 14.2 - 14.4V at the camper batteries with no dc dc charger in sight. Perfect.
one thing to make it easier I just grounded the rear (-) close underneath to save running a pair of BIG cables all the way to underbonnet isolator. No problems thus far at all but Tim may chime in here.
Your set up will work but use big cables to start with and be done with it. At least you have a 40 amp redarc. Anything less and you are virtually throttling DOWN charging potential quite significantly. Why have a 160 amp alternator that with big cable can deliver this and then put a device in line to effectively limit the output to ( in most cases) 20 amps. Never made sense to me.

An old thread, I know, but I'm about to install an anderson plug in the back of my D2 (as I've just purchased a T-Van) and, like Turtle, was considering connecting the negative cable to the rear of the chassis. Are there any arguments as to why this should not be done. I could connect another earth at the front earth point to the chassis if this would help. TIA.

[Odysseyman]

An old thread, I know, but I'm about to install an anderson plug in the back of my D2 (as I've just purchased a T-Van) and, like Turtle, was considering connecting the negative cable to the rear of the chassis. Are there any arguments as to why this should not be done. I could connect another earth at the front earth point to the chassis if this would help. TIA.

I connected the 6B&S earth cable to my Alko disc brake compressor in my camper to the earth point at the rear of the vehicle. So far no problem, the brakes work as they should, but I do know the ideal is to run it right back to the battery.

David

[drivesafe]

Hi Biggin, the problem with finding a high current capable earth point, other than at the negative terminal of a battery, is that there is no simple way to measure if a prospective earth point will actually carry CONTINUOUS high currents.

With many new vehicle, it is hard to determine if an earth point is a direct ELECTRICAL connection to the cranking battery’s earth point.

If you have a single solid chassis rail, from front to back, you should be fine.

Up until recently, while I was pretty sure the studs in the rear of D3s and D4s would make suitable high current earth points, without carrying out full load tests, I could not be positive that they were safe.

I was loaned a D4, and was able to carry out a full load test.

The test required a constant 80 amp load being passed through the stud and both the current and voltage were continuously monitored for 1 hour.

During the hour test, if either the voltage or the current dropped, even slowly, the test would have been terminated and the stud ruled out as a reliable earth point.

While the 6B&S cable connecting to the stud was warm at the end of the test, the voltage and current remained constant and more importantly the area around the stud was still room temperature.

This is sort of test that is needed to be done, to be able to establish a reliable and safe earth return in any vehicle where you can not find a decent chassis earth return.

[biggin]

Thank you Odysseyman and Drivesafe, I really appreciate the feedback. I’m confident that I will see a good earth with a clean connection at both ends of the chassis rail.

[RobMichelle]

I connected the 6B&S earth cable to my Alko disc brake compressor in my camper to the earth point at the rear of the vehicle. So far no problem, the brakes work as they should, but I do know the ideal is to run it right back to the battery.

David

I have my d2 set up this way for a few years now with no problems encounted as yet.
Rob