130 Puma Stalls After Starting

[Chenz]

Lately, and usually when I am out in the paddock at my farm, I start my 130 2.4 Puma and it stalls. It them won't start until I remove the key, click the door lock on and them off, put the key back in and it starts and goes fine for the next 30 or so starts and them it does it again.

I have my Nanocom permanently hooked up and have checked when this is occurring and no fault codes are being recorded. Any information or advice on the cause and fix would be appreciated.

[DazzaTD5]

*So it starts then stalls straight away?

*Sounds like the ignition switch is faulty.
*AND or do you leave the key in the ignition or by the seat base base when parked up, say as in over night etc? if so, then sometimes it gets all confused having the key close by, locking then unlocking sorts this out.

[weeds]

Assuming DAZZA is correct....how many keys do you have hanging off the ignition key??

My wife keeps adding them to ours.......I have fitted a snap ring but she never removes the key not required.

[MLD]

Assuming DAZZA is correct....how many keys do you have hanging off the ignition key??

My wife keeps adding them to ours.......I have fitted a snap ring but she never removes the key not required.

If had to ask the question, you already know the answer. time to cull. I'm a minimalist. car key + front door key. I have a set for all doors in the house (that lives in the top draw). I have a set for the office that lives in my backpack. Nothing worse than looking like a 1880's gaol guard.

[Chenz]

*So it starts then stalls straight away?

*Sounds like the ignition switch is faulty.
*AND or do you leave the key in the ignition or by the seat base base when parked up, say as in over night etc? if so, then sometimes it gets all confused having the key close by, locking then unlocking sorts this out.

Yes it starts runs for a second and then stalls and won't restart until I take the key out hit the lock and then the open button, put the key back in and start it.

I have also noticed that the key is sometimes hard to get into the ignition and has to be giggled a bit to go in and turn - I never force it though.

Any idea what a new ignition switch will set me back?????

Thanks

[skidrov]

Yes it starts runs for a second and then stalls and won't restart until I take the key out hit the lock and then the open button, put the key back in and start it.

I have also noticed that the key is sometimes hard to get into the ignition and has to be giggled a bit to go in and turn - I never force it though.

Any idea what a new ignition switch will set me back?????

ThanksAbout $40 to $90 plus delivery depending on whether you go pattern or original. That's assuming you don't need to replace the lock. Not too hard to change (switch only). Quite a few threads on this, a search should return some help.

[Chenz]

The problem stalling when starting was getting more frequent - every 5th or sixth start. Take the key out, lock it with the fob, unlock it, reinsert the key and it would start.

Well I have now changed the whole ignition with a brand new Land Rover genuine ignition - that was fun getting out as the old snap bolt was rounded and required some extra persuasion to remove. The problem is still there. The second time I started the motor it stalled and subsequent turning of the key had it turn over once and then not at all until I did the lock and unlock routine.

What is my next step? I have heard that it could be the alarm module but they are a bit expensive ($500+) and a pain in the butt to remove and replace as they are mounted behind the dash in a hard to get at spot.

I am planning to do some remote travelling in August and don't want to be on a lonely track and it won't start at all.

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

[austastar]

Hi,
Try disconnecting the battery, exactly as per the driver's instruction manual.
It sounds like a problem I had which was fixed as per your method, but the disconnect/reconnect may settle it down a bit.
Cheers

[Chenz]

I'll give that a go tomorrow and see if that helps. Settling down is one thing but how do you fix it permanently?

[ck161]

ck161

Have you replaced the battery in your key remote plip (fob) as per instruction manual? Do your spare set at the same time. Make sure you follow the procedure laid out in your manual.
Once the battery voltage in the plip (fob) gets down a bit, it has trouble talking to the immobiliser which will prevent the car starting.
My 2016 130 had the same issue. Once batteries were replaced, problem was fixed.

Cheers

[Chenz]

I have replaced the crank battery and the batteries in the two fobs and the problem is still there. I was even told to check the fuses for the ECU and alarm system which I did and cleaned them up. I have checked the earths on all that I could find and I still get this problem from time to time. Usually at the most inconvenient time like on the side of a hill or at the lights in heavy traffic.

I am told that the next move is the alarm module which is expensive and complicated as they have to be reprogrammed or so I am told by my LR mechanic.

Can it be bypassed or overridden. I really don't need an alarm.

[Xtreme]

..........................
Can it be bypassed or overridden. I really don't need an alarm.

I'm not familiar with the Nanocom/Puma functions but maybe the alarm can be disabled with the Nanocom.

[knodes85]

I had a similar problem with my MY09 110. LRA couldn't fix it under warranty for months, they tried everything, including replacing the 10AS alarm module, the ECU, and installing a new wiring harness etc.

They eventually flew out a tech from the UK and he fixed it in a day. Ripped out the instrument cluster from a pre-delivery 90 they had in the dealership and swapped it with mine. Problem fixed. It's been 10 years since I lived this nightmare (and it's started fine since then), so my memory is fading, but apparently the signal from the fob is transmitted from the 10AS sensor through the instrument cluster (why I'll never know) to the immobiliser. On mine, there was an intermittent fault where the signal wouldn't make it through the instrument cluster - the swap out fixed it.

If you can get to a savvy LR mechanic and they can try swap the clusters you might find that that's the problem.

[Grappler]

You said your Nanocom is permanently connected Have you tried not having the Nano connected for a while?

[Chenz]

You said your Nanocom is permanently connected Have you tried not having the Nano connected for a while?

Yes. I have tried it with and without the Nanocom. The problem still persists.

[Chenz]

I'm not familiar with the Nanocom/Puma functions but maybe the alarm can be disabled with the Nanocom.

I don't think so unless it is giving a fault code and when this occurs no fault code is registered.

Thanks

[Chenz]

I had a similar problem with my MY09 110. LRA couldn't fix it under warranty for months, they tried everything, including replacing the 10AS alarm module, the ECU, and installing a new wiring harness etc.

They eventually flew out a tech from the UK and he fixed it in a day. Ripped out the instrument cluster from a pre-delivery 90 they had in the dealership and swapped it with mine. Problem fixed. It's been 10 years since I lived this nightmare (and it's started fine since then), so my memory is fading, but apparently the signal from the fob is transmitted from the 10AS sensor through the instrument cluster (why I'll never know) to the immobiliser. On mine, there was an intermittent fault where the signal wouldn't make it through the instrument cluster - the swap out fixed it.

If you can get to a savvy LR mechanic and they can try swap the clusters you might find that that's the problem.

Sounds like this could be the go. Do you have any details or can you give me some details on who or what dealership it was so I could maybe get them to have a look?

Thanks

[Xtreme]

A search revealed a number of threads regarding alarm disabling using a Nanocom so if you are unsuccessful in solving your problem and still wish to disable then try the search function.

[knodes85]

Sounds like this could be the go. Do you have any details or can you give me some details on who or what dealership it was so I could maybe get them to have a look?

Thanks

Will try to dig up my records to see if I wrote down any more detail at the time - I expect I did. The dealership was Austral in Brisbane, and from memory the wizard from the UK was called Barry.

[knodes85]

Chenz - I haven't got any further info floating around - but this (https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic66670.html) thread is on the topic if you haven't had a chance to remedy this yet.

[Chenz]

Chenz - I haven't got any further info floating around - but this (https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic66670.html) thread is on the topic if you haven't had a chance to remedy this yet.

Thanks for the info.

It has not done it for weeks and then yesterday it did it in the morning and then for the rest of the day at the farm starting and stopping all day no problem.

Reading that post you gave me link for had my head spinning. They all seemed to have tried a number of fixers from ignition barrel - done that, check relay and fuse connections - done that, checked Nanocom fault codes - nothing. I have not tried to bypass the immobilizer and would probably get my Landy guy to do something like that. Even he is scratching his head.

Want to get it sorted before heading out into Woop Woop. Don't want to get stuck in the middle of nowhere with a Landy that won't start.

[Chenz]

Well after consulting a few Landy mechanical firms in Sydney and interstate the consensus was that after all my troubleshooting and doing all the things that have been suggested the problem persists and is happening more frequently and so it would appear it is an Immobilizer problem. They told me that it was a dealer issue and they could not fix this.

So off I go to a reputable Land Rover Dealer who for the time being shall remain nameless and who after a $220 fee analyse the problem in these words:


Checked and confirmed that vehicle stalls on startup
Vehicle immobilizer light not flashing when the key turns ignition on
Turn key immobilizer light staying solid amber
Connect diagnostic computer and read fault codes
Found vehicle immobilizer module not responding
Carried out vehicle immobilization test found vehicle passive immobilization test failed three times
Vehicle module corrupted
Vehicle immobilizer module no longer sold
Vehicle requires new ALM security system

They tell me the parts have to come from England and could take 3 weeks. I told them I was not happy as this is clearly a design fault and the fact that they do not make the original part, which I have been told was around $600 and now I am going to get charged $1,667 for parts and a further $1,760 for labour making a total of $3,427 sticks in my craw.

Is it worth me writing to Land Rover and having a big sook about this? If so who do I sick the teeth into?

I am aware that parts cost money but this sounds like a blatant rip-off. One the other side, you can't be up the Colson track and the EDJITMobile won't start. As I said I don't expect it to be fixed for nothing although a clear design fault should be covered in some way shape or form.

[BilboBoggles]

Well after consulting a few Landy mechanical firms in Sydney and interstate the consensus was that after all my troubleshooting and doing all the things that have been suggested the problem persists and is happening more frequently and so it would appear it is an Immobilizer problem. They told me that it was a dealer issue and they could not fix this.

So off I go to a reputable Land Rover Dealer who for the time being shall remain nameless and who after a $220 fee analyse the problem in these words:


Checked and confirmed that vehicle stalls on startup
Vehicle immobilizer light not flashing when the key turns ignition on
Turn key immobilizer light staying solid amber
Connect diagnostic computer and read fault codes
Found vehicle immobilizer module not responding
Carried out vehicle immobilization test found vehicle passive immobilization test failed three times
Vehicle module corrupted
Vehicle immobilizer module no longer sold
Vehicle requires new ALM security system

They tell me the parts have to come from England and could take 3 weeks. I told them I was not happy as this is clearly a design fault and the fact that they do not make the original part, which I have been told was around $600 and now I am going to get charged $1,667 for parts and a further $1,760 for labour making a total of $3,427 sticks in my craw.

Is it worth me writing to Land Rover and having a big sook about this? If so who do I sick the teeth into?

I am aware that parts cost money but this sounds like a blatant rip-off. One the other side, you can't be up the Colson track and the EDJITMobile won't start. As I said I don't expect it to be fixed for nothing although a clear design fault should be covered in some way shape or form.

How did this go?

You may already have solved this, and perhaps you know this information as well

IT's possible to have the ECU remapped to not use the immobilizer
There are plug in modules that replace the 10AS module, someone in Germany makes them, you end them some details and they program their little black box and send it to you.


The new ALM module is based around a new CPU as the original was no longer made, it's plug compatible. Also as far as I know this specific module is ONLY used in these replacement scenarios, it's not been used on production models, so therefore the cost is higher because it's effedctively a custom module.
I believe you end up with new remotes. If anyone has gone down this path, have you been able to source remotes from other model vehicles, or are these new plips specific to the ALM Module in a defender?

[martnH]

I have gone down the path and replace the 10as with the new one....
The key fob was replaced as well.


Somehow the range has increased.to around 50m.....
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200826/f95ac8308f6d78d68905f43ddd404801.jpg