Touring decisions. Disco or Defender ???

[Aussie_Oz_Born]

​G'day all, I'm chasing some sagely advice,

Next year I'm taking the family on an April road trip from S.E QLD to Ayers Rock. My time frame is about 14 days. I'm tossing up whether to take the Disco or the Defender.....
Last year we did a trip to Carnarvon Gorge in the Defender and the EGT gauge got a work out! Everyone was relatively comfy but it was slow going.

A few trip details;
We're going to be towing a camper trailer around the 1800kg mark.
The Td5 has 315,000km on the clock, well maintained, kitted up, tough as nails but lacking in grunt for long hauls.
The Disco is fairly new to us, good service history, 110,000kms, comfy as, very 'pretty' but fairly stock.

Mods for each vehicle to suit the trip (IMO) are as follows;
Defender: Global Roamer O/D, Big inter-cooler, VGT, new tyres.
Disco 4: Roof rails, Brake controller, Traxide DB kit w/ Anderson plug, Driving lights, Diagnostic tool (Genesis?), new tyres, frontal protection (temporary).

I'm leaning towards to Disco for safety reasons, but I'm concerned with the reliability of the air suspension and low profile tyres on extremely corrugated roads. The Disco is immaculate and I don't want to ruin the limo, it is after all a keeper. If it was just myself doing the trip, I'd take the Defender tomorrow.

What are your opinions? Do I pump bulk coin into the Defender and have a fairly reliable vehicle, or less coin into the Disco and have comfier (more expensive to repair) vehicle for the trip? - Cheers.

[Bluetoes]

Disco would definitely be more comfortable but it will get a beating going out there. Had a friend do that trip just recently in his 200 series and let’s just say it doesn’t look new any more all the underneath got stone blasted really bad he was towing a 20’ van. Make sure your stone guards are in good nick. [emoji51]

[fitzy]

Don’t be soft, take the Defender.

[rar110]

6500-7000km in 14 days?

No brainer. D4.

[weeds]

Defer.....I struggle to see why you need to do the work listed except for tyres.

D4.....although I love my deferfor the two off us but if I had a D4 back when I was towing a 1.4T camper and three kids I’d defiantly take a D4 over a defer. Scott? Just did a great trip report with his D4 doing the Simpson, not towing and no kids but I notice he doesn’t have front protection or driving lights. Given you probably won’t be driving between dusk and dawn as you have the family in tow do you really need bar and driving light

D4 would be my pick

[Aussie_Oz_Born]

Disco would definitely be more comfortable but it will get a beating going out there. Had a friend do that trip just recently in his 200 series and let’s just say it doesn’t look new any more all the underneath got stone blasted really bad he was towing a 20’ van. Make sure your stone guards are in good nick. [emoji51]

Great advice! I'd hate to chuck a rock through the 8 speed's sump.

[Aussie_Oz_Born]

Defer.....I struggle to see why you need to do the work listed except for tyres.

D4.....although I love my deferfor the two off us but if I had a D4 back when I was towing a 1.4T camper and three kids I’d defiantly take a D4 over a defer. Scott? Just did a great trip report with his D4 doing the Simpson, not towing and no kids but I notice he doesn’t have front protection or driving lights. Given you probably won’t be driving between dusk and dawn as you have the family in tow do you really need bar and driving light

D4 would be my pick

As for the Defender bits, the O/D would be to save 5th when towing by driving in over-drive 4th (about the same ratio). Intercooler to get more poke on the level roads and VNT to take off easier and maybe to get up hills better?
Even with a nice tune my Td5 struggles with EGTs up hill and more so when towing. I'd love to do a M57 swap.

[Zeros]

Which route are you taking?

[Aussie_Oz_Born]

Which route are you taking?The fine details are still up in the air. But generally the route will be Longreach - Alice springs - Uluru - Coober Pedy - Marree - Birdsville.

[justinc]

I have kept my 1985 110 for that very reason. There is not much chance of me taking the l322 to the Cape or the Canning stock route, its job is primarily to tow the van...

[rick130]

Geez, tough decision.

My heart says Deefer but having driven back from the Alice last year in the D2....
I must be getting soft in my dotage! [emoji23]

I did miss the suspension travel of the (not stock) Fender on some of the rougher tracks.
And the MT's in the mud but momentum is your friend when you only have HT's.

[Zeros]

The fine details are still up in the air. But generally the route will be Longreach - Alice springs - Uluru - Coober Pedy - Marree - Birdsville.

If your Defender is a long-term keeper, everything else is in excellent condition and you’re happy towing with it, I’d upgrade the intercooler, new tyres and take the Defender. This kind of trip is what it’s designed for. Keep the disco clean.

If you’re not planning to keep the Defender long-term for this kind of trip and the Disco will become your primary tourer, if you have time to do all the bush upgrades, its time to use it for that purpose. You’ll eventually get a new daily driver.

Its a big trip to do in 14 days. Either way you’ll be spending most of your time on the road.

Either will get you there, Have a great trip! 👍

[DiscoMick]

Good tyres and protection are the keys, I think.

[Arapiles]

I'm leaning towards to Disco for safety reasons, but I'm concerned with the reliability of the air suspension and low profile tyres on extremely corrugated roads. The Disco is immaculate and I don't want to ruin the limo, it is after all a keeper. If it was just myself doing the trip, I'd take the Defender tomorrow.

With kids in the car I'd take the D4 - google some crash photos of Defenders without external roll bars and see why. And the D4 would be a much more pleasant way to do the ks - much, much quieter and more comfortable for everyone.

By all accounts the air suspension is reliable and if you were worried about the tyres then you could buy some Tuffants or Compomotive wheels and swap back later.

Edit: and I'm on record as not seeing any need for bullbars.

[Aussie_Oz_Born]

With kids in the car I'd take the D4 - google some crash photos of Defenders without external roll bars and see why. And the D4 would be a much more pleasant way to do the ks - much, much quieter and more comfortable for everyone.

By all accounts the air suspension is reliable and if you were worried about the tyres then you could buy some Tuffants or Compomotive wheels and swap back later.

Edit: and I'm on record as not seeing any need for bullbars.

Yep, you've sold me on the safety aspect, Disco it is then. Time to make a list of all the bits I'll need.

Cheers everyone for the input, muchly appreciated!

[cripesamighty]

If you are really worried about the air suspension, there are a couple of aftermarket emergency airbag inflation kits that you could instal to get you out of trouble if it was ever required.

[Zeros]

Safety is a good reason for your choice. Peace of mind is important. It also sounds like you and your family would prefer to take your D4. It will be better at towing and for the fast run over to Alice.

While it’s not a pleasant thing to consider, I just googled both Defender and D4 crash photos and there are plenty of horrific crumpled examples of both. Yes airbags make cars safer, but looking at the phots I’m not sure there’s a huge difference in rollover protection. Happy to be proven wrong.

I also think I my Defender makes me drive more safely. I think the presumed extra safety, more powerful engine and sportier handling of a D4 may also lead to some people driving faster / less carefully. It then I don’t have kids so I do t know how I’d feel if I did.

[Arapiles]

While it’s not a pleasant thing to consider, I just googled both Defender and D4 crash photos and there are plenty of horrific crumpled examples of both. Yes airbags make cars safer, but looking at the phots I’m not sure there’s a huge difference in rollover protection. Happy to be proven wrong.


I'm going to presume that the D4 is also quieter than the Defender ...

[Arapiles]

While it’s not a pleasant thing to consider, I just googled both Defender and D4 crash photos and there are plenty of horrific crumpled examples of both. Yes airbags make cars safer, but looking at the phots I’m not sure there’s a huge difference in rollover protection. Happy to be proven wrong.

Disco 3 & 4 have an NCAP of 4 - there's lots of photos online of them with intact body structures after crashes (including one I just found on here from South Africa where the D4 got hit by another car doing 200kmh) but you can't say that for the Defenders, which basically don't pass any crash test regulations. That's why the mines here wouldn't touch them. There was also an AULRO member who rolled his D4 down a slope in the Vic Alps last year (or earlier this year?) and it was noticeable that the body structure still looked pretty square and the doors were openable.

[rar110]

If your going with the D4 (which the family will appreciate) I would look at a dual battery system if your keeping a fridge in the car (I assume the trailer has a battery), an IID tool and may be an extra tyre/wheel. You can probably just borrow one.

EAS is reliable. Lots of trucks running around with air suspension.

[DiscoMick]

If you're going the Plenty Highway from Longreach to Alice then, unless it's improved radically, low profile tyres could be a big problem.
Corrugations are certain problem, but so are the cattle grids. Hit a cattle grid at speed in the wrong place and tyres can be ripped apart, because the grids have joins in the middle.
We saw a 79 towing a camper which had destroyed three high profile Cooper MTs (two on vehicle drivers side and one on the camper) on a cattle grid. That was obviously unusual, but it can happen.
So you need excellent tyres, spare spares and to slow down.
Full under body protection also a good idea.
But it can be done.
Assume the worst and decide which vehicle will cope the best.

[weeds]

Bloody hell....ya all know thousands of cars travels theses roads every year.

The worst thing I did before my solo Simpson was read too much online, in the end it was a leave of cake.

[rar110]

I’d probably go through Birdsville, Strzlecki & Oodnadatta track.

[Graeme]

Hit a cattle grid at speed in the wrong place and tyres can be ripped apart, because the grids have joins in the middle. Not slowing right down for cattle grids is asking for trouble as often there is a big hole either side which will blow tyres and wreck rims and suspensions if not avoided.

[scarry]

Done that trip both ways in the D4,no issues at all.

But you MUST have good tyres,18's with LT tyres is the only way,or take the Deefer.Dont even think of going on P rated tyres,or 19's.

The only real issue with the D4,is it is so comfortable,it is very easy for road speed to get away from you.The suspension and tyres then cop a hiding on the dirt.

Have a good trip,i have also done it in the D2a,its a fantastic place.

[Aussie_Oz_Born]

I'm going to presume that the D4 is also quieter than the Defender ...

Just a tad.............[biggrin]

[Aussie_Oz_Born]

If your going with the D4 (which the family will appreciate) I would look at a dual battery system if your keeping a fridge in the car (I assume the trailer has a battery), an IID tool and may be an extra tyre/wheel. You can probably just borrow one.

EAS is reliable. Lots of trucks running around with air suspension.

Traxide system is on the list[thumbsupbig]
I think I'll go a Rovacom-IQ, maybe, still looking.

[Aussie_Oz_Born]

If you're going the Plenty Highway from Longreach to Alice then, unless it's improved radically, low profile tyres could be a big problem.

Yeah, I think I'm going to avoid the Plenty Hwy and go via Mount Isa now. A bit longer but probably a lot quicker on the black stuff.

[Aussie_Oz_Born]

I’d probably go through Birdsville, Strzlecki & Oodnadatta track.

Weather permitting that's the way I'll take for the stretch home. I can't wait!

[Aussie_Oz_Born]

The only real issue with the D4,is it is so comfortable,it is very easy for road speed to get away from you.

I reckon! Every time I take it for a spin I have to be careful with the speed, very easy to be 20km/h over.

[Zeros]

Disco 3 & 4 have an NCAP of 4 - there's lots of photos online of them with intact body structures after crashes (including one I just found on here from South Africa where the D4 got hit by another car doing 200kmh) but you can't say that for the Defenders, which basically don't pass any crash test regulations. That's why the mines here wouldn't touch them. There was also an AULRO member who rolled his D4 down a slope in the Vic Alps last year (or earlier this year?) and it was noticeable that the body structure still looked pretty square and the doors were openable.

Yes definitely the D4 would be quieter and it would be safer in a rollover. However it wouldn't be as robust as a Defender crossing the desert. Everything is a trade off - hence the OP's original question.

[Arapiles]

Yes definitely the D4 would be quieter and it would be safer in a rollover. However it wouldn't be as robust as a Defender crossing the desert. Everything is a trade off - hence the OP's original question.

Yes, agreed - although if I understand the OP's route he's staying on roads, albeit some rough ones.

In terms of comfort, we recently did Melbourne - Dubbo in a day in our D4 and that was one of the cruisiest ways I've done it - the D4's massive torque, air suspension, comfortable seats and sound-proofing make a big difference in relation to fatigue when you're doing big days. And the kids were happy too.

[Zeros]

Yes, agreed - although if I understand the OP's route he's staying on roads, albeit some rough ones.


To me it looks like a mix of roads and desert tracks. If it were predominantly roads, I was towing and I owned a D4, I'd definitely take the D4. If half the trip is desert tracks, I'd take the Defender.

Having said that, my Puma Defender is remarkably quiet and I find it very comfortable / non-fatiguing for long trips. It feels almost too luxurious to me in comparison to my 300Tdi.[bigsmile1] ...I've never done a trip in a Td5 - I imagine it's somewhere in between.

[Arapiles]

To me it looks like a mix of roads and desert tracks. If it were predominantly roads, I was towing and I owned a D4, I'd definitely take the D4. If half the trip is desert tracks, I'd take the Defender.

Having said that, my Puma Defender is remarkably quiet and I find it very comfortable / non-fatiguing for long trips. It feels almost too luxurious to me in comparison to my 300Tdi.[bigsmile1] ...I've never done a trip in a Td5 - I imagine it's somewhere in between.

Where I grew up the Birdsville Track would be a road.[bigsmile1]

[Zeros]

Where I grew up the Birdsville Track would be a road.[bigsmile1]

[thumbsupbig][bigrolf] ...well you could take the Lambo then!

[weeds]

To me it looks like a mix of roads and desert tracks. If it were predominantly roads, I was towing and I owned a D4, I'd definitely take the D4. If half the trip is desert tracks, I'd take the Defender.

.

The ‘tracks’ are all high speed........

[trout1105]

Tracks or roads it really doesn't matter the D4 will do the job in comfort and safety, The defender not so much.
Unless you intend to drive tracks like the Carson river track the D4 is by far the best choice as a family tourer.

[travelrover]

Slightly off subject but related. My first four wheel drive ‘adventure’ was a two week trip from Broken Hill, via Tibooburra, the corner, Inniminka, Cordilo Downs, Betoota, Birdsville, Maree, the Flinders rangers and back to broken hill. This was 1979 in an ex south Australian police series 3 long wheelbase with my dad who had just finished two years as chief medical officer with the RFDS in BHQ and we were driving around the perimeter of the area he used to service.
No a/c, no fridge, no awnings, no slide out draws, no gps, no flash tyres (750 x 16) but we did have a safari roof!!. Spares comprised two spare wheels and a fan belt. Tools were rudimentary but included a shovel and an HF radio. We also had a compass and a few world war 11 era maps. The vehicle had duel fuel tanks and we had a couple of jerrycans of fuel and a couple of water.

Never had an issue (despite flooding around Birdsville) and our inexperience, everyone knew my dad and it was a great trip!

Did the same trip again with my dad in 1999 in my Td5. Not much had change except the pub at Betoota was closed (Simon the owner had died) and many property owners moved on. However the Birdsville track was no longer a track, we even saw a Suzuki vitara towing a hobbiecat heading north! Am sure you could drive a Lamborghini along it now, no challenge at all.

[justinc]

There is not a doubt that the d4 would do this trip with ease, driven to the conditions. The original question was also centered around the effect of the dust/mud/scratching on the immaculate D4. I totally agree, if you have a defender then take it in preference, if no defender then put aside some $$ for post trip detailing etc, main thing is get out there and enjoy this country!

[Zeros]

Of course plenty of people have also done all these journeys in 2WD’s over the decades. If you drive to the conditions you can take any vehicle. But it doesn’t take long for these vehicles to look pretty rough. Even 4x4s that drive these roads regularly start to look and feel worn pretty fast.

Whilst these desert ‘roads’ might be fast dirt much of the time, it only takes a bit of rain or an unscheduled side trip to change the scenario.

More importantly though, ‘fast dirt’ is often harder on a vehicle than rough and slow 4x4 country. Fast dirt is rocks, stones, potholes and corrugations. All have a constant impact on a vehicle especially at speed - even 80km/hr. Fast dirt can be deceptive and is something that is often underestimated.

It’s factors like constant high clearance, the strength of big chassis and live axles, GVM, robust undercarriage and simple interior which make the Defender a better option for these types of journey, especially over the long term. There are very few vehicles built for durability in this kind of constant harsh environment. Unfortunately whilst capable off road and super comfortable, the D4 is not one of them.

The simple durability of Defender v the complex luxury / airbags of the D4. It’s a tough call for the family, but I’d stil prefer to take my Defender on a trip like this.

It’s why I own two Defenders.
Landy 1 - 98 300Tdi 320,000km majority in northern and central Australia. Solid, reliable and durable in our roughest country over almost 20 years.
Landy 2 - 2014 Puma - Hardening him up to cope with these big journeys. He’s still far too shiny and earning his stripes. An example of desert ‘road’ impacts - his first foray a few years ago was a 5000km trip out to Coongee Lakes. The original shocks whilst generally good, were shot from rocky roads and corrugations after that trip. I upgraded to Koni Raids. ...And I travel light, decades of bush experience, I don’t tow, I take it easy and I’m a careful driver. But ‘fast dirt’ is simply hard on vehicles.