Engine failure reasons TDV6 2.7

[Banjo Bob]

I have purchased a 2005 D3 TD2.7 with 195k and a blown engine.
I am nearly finished a body off engine change.
I have used a 2014 low k territory engine.
The 2005 engine had no coolant in the bottle, radiator or engine . Upon removing the sump and 6 liters or so of oil,I found metal slug, grit and metal shavings that I think used to be the main bearings.
I am suspecting the coolant plastic manifold, on top of the engine at the front, that commonly leak on a seam. I know there is a guy in South Australia that make one out of aluminium.
Would any one have an opinion on the need to change the plastic for the aluminum coolant manifold, or is this not needed on a 2014 territory motor ?
Thanks
Bob

[shack]

I have purchased a 2005 D3 TD2.7 with 195k and a blown engine.
I am nearly finished a body off engine change.
I have used a 2014 low k territory engine.
The 2005 engine had no coolant in the bottle . Upon removing the sump and 6 liters or so of oil,I found metal slug that I think used to be the main bearings.
I am suspecting the coolant plastic manifold, on top of the engine at the front, that commonly leak on a seam. I know there is a guy in South Australia that make one out of aluminium.
Would any one have an opinion on the need to change the plastic for the aluminum coolant manifold, or is this not needed on a 2014 territory motor ?
Thanks
BobWe've changed all of ours over to the alloy job, pretty cheap insurance as far as I'm concerned.
I guess you know what another motor is worth, so it's around $600 versus whatever you paid....

Your call

[PerthDisco]

It’s highly likely the timing belt was never done. The plastic part seems to last this 7 yr or 160,000km interval with zero trouble.

Do this $50 part and the water pump at that time.

I know distantly a guy in Perth who sold a D3 2005 last year upgrading to a D5 had never done anything other than oil change services since new. Couldn’t believe it.

[BradC]

If the coolant housing let go (or any other part of the cooling system for that matter), wouldn't you almost instantly get a low coolant alarm?

I know in other makes that are prone to popping cooling system components (like splitting plastic radiator tanks) we've always fitted float switches to the coolant bottles. That gives you enough time to get off the road, shut down and investigate before things start really getting hot. Of course that relies on you having your reserve driver well trained so she doesn't just drive through the alarm "in the hope she'll get home safely".

[Banjo Bob]

It’s highly likely the timing belt was never done. The plastic part seems to last this 7 yr or 160,000km interval with zero trouble.

Do this $50 part and the water pump at that time.

I know distantly a guy in Perth who sold a D3 2005 last year upgrading to a D5 had never done anything other than oil change services since new. Couldn’t believe it.
You know you are wrong. I have a full service history for this D3 and belts were changed on time.

[GrahamH]

Hi Bob,

The machined aluminium water outlet is available from Triumph Rover Spares in Lonsdale (08 8384-6933, talk to Phil).

You can see the beast at WATER OUTLET - Part Specials - Triumph Rover Spares South Australia (http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=15&productid=1767)

My understanding is that if you change the plastic one at the same time as the timing & pump belts, you should be OK. But being a cautious lad, I got Ian to fit the ali substitute to the 2015 D4 I've just bought from him.

My mate had one of the plastic ones fail at highway speed on his way up the Stuart Hwy. When the low water alarm went off he pulled the car up from 110K as fast as he could - by the time he stopped the engine was toast. And remember that temperature gauges only read high when they're immersed in water - when the water is gone from around the sender, they tend to drop quickly and read low.

Good luck with the new engine!

[loanrangie]

You know you are wrong. I have a full service history for this D3 and belts were changed on time.I'm guessing the oil pump wasn't replaced.

[Russrobe]

There's consistent failures in the UK being reported with warped blocks. Some were even cracked, there's a lot of mechanics who believe this is what causes the shells to spin, which results in the crank failure.

All hearsay really, unless Land Rover admit to a cause, which they never will. It's just as likely for a 3.0l to fail as it is a 2.7l though. Will be interesting to see how many 3.0l D5's fail.

[DiscoJeffster]

There's consistent failures in the UK being reported with warped blocks. Some were even cracked, there's a lot of mechanics who believe this is what causes the shells to spin, which results in the crank failure.

All hearsay really, unless Land Rover admit to a cause, which they never will. It's just as likely for a 3.0l to fail as it is a 2.7l though. Will be interesting to see how many 3.0l D5's fail.

I’ve seen posts of D5 crank failures which I was dumbfounded by.

[Ean Austral]

I was advised by the wise 1 to only use the genuine water outlet housing as they seem to last a lot longer and usually weep before they fail completely . A lot of people are opting for the cheap Chinese copy and they are just letting go .

Cheers Ean

[PerthDisco]

There's consistent failures in the UK being reported with warped blocks. Some were even cracked, there's a lot of mechanics who believe this is what causes the shells to spin, which results in the crank failure.

All hearsay really, unless Land Rover admit to a cause, which they never will. It's just as likely for a 3.0l to fail as it is a 2.7l though. Will be interesting to see how many 3.0l D5's fail.

A lot of power out of a small block is a clue. Think 20-30 years ago what power a 253, 308, 351 engine was producing in stock form. Smaller 4cyl engines in race cars producing high power good maybe for 20-50 hours before rebuild based on an oil change each event.
Add nitro to an engine and what’s the result?
Spitfire Merlin engines had a boost button for emergency that the engine could sustain for only a matter of minutes.
I had two stroke race motor bikes with heaps of grunt but you popped a new piston in them after 20 hours or risked catastrophe.
Doesn’t make me feel any happier though but I’m sort of not surprised.

[101RRS]

The OP said the engine had crap in the sump - possibly bearings and if he looks closer will possibly have a cracked or broken crank.

Not likely to be a result of cracked coolant system coolant outlet - yes the bearings could over heat but engine would most likely sieze first - with associated alarms on the dash.

If the oil pump housing had failed, this kills the heads/valves etc and has no impact on the bottom end - oil pressure still remains for a while at least long enough for the valves to crash with pistons and kill the engine from the top end.

Too me it is a crank/bigend issue - though the oil filter could have been fitted incorrectly and starved the engine - on the evidence presented definitely not a split coolant housing or a cracked timing belt mount on the oil pump.

Garry

[Banjo Bob]

This 195k engine's plastic components were all brittle. I tried to use plastics from the 85k territory motor. If your D3 is 500k long in the teeth, as the name of the Bon Jovi song, living on a prayer.
Bob

[PerthDisco]

This 195k engine's plastic components were all brittle. I tried to use plastics from the 85k territory motor. If your D3 is 500k long in the teeth, as the name of the Bon Jovi song, living on a prayer.
Bob


I am very conscious of this issue as cars like BMWs have ongoing plastic crack coolant leaks as they age.

To be honest though, other than the thermostat part I have not heard of other leaks other than cooling hoses damaged. The thermostat changed <7 years seems to be the solution.

The ultimate proactive repair maybe would be to change the radiator and all hoses at 10 to 15 years age of car.

[eddy]

The ultimate proactive repair maybe would be to change the radiator and all hoses at 10 to 15 years age of car.[/QUOTE]


Better include the bottom connecting Tube,also plastic LR013165 LR013165 | COOLING SYSTEM LOWER CONNECTING TUBE - 3.0L DIESEL - DISCOVERY 4 - RANGE ROVER VOGUE + SPORT 2013 ON | Land Rover | | Britcar (UK) Ltd (https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/156302/0/cooling_system_lower_connecting_tube___3_0l_diesel ___discovery_4___range_rover_vogue___sport_2013_on )

[shanegtr]

The ultimate proactive repair maybe would be to change the radiator and all hoses at 10 to 15 years age of car.


Better include the bottom connecting Tube,also plastic LR013165 LR013165 | COOLING SYSTEM LOWER CONNECTING TUBE - 3.0L DIESEL - DISCOVERY 4 - RANGE ROVER VOGUE + SPORT 2013 ON | Land Rover | | Britcar (UK) Ltd (https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/156302/0/cooling_system_lower_connecting_tube___3_0l_diesel ___discovery_4___range_rover_vogue___sport_2013_on )

I thought about that one when I done all my cooling hoses earlier this year. Looks like an absolute bastard to get to. A job to add to the list if the body ever needs to come off I think

[Russrobe]

Yes plastic and rubber will go brittle after about 15 years. I've just replace the last of the oil lines to rocker covers in a 2004 vehicle. They were rotten hard. Plastic on the lash adjusters was falling apart also. Even still, all this work can be carried out for less than the cost of 2 years depreciation on a new model.

[Russrobe]

Heater cores is another common (on all engines) and important one. Relatively cheap replace too, especially if you're not afraid to diy dash removal, but at 12-15 years old i'd be swapping it out when the radiator is done.

Actually i think i've had these rot out before the radiator on other vehicles...

[DazzaTD5]

Just some info....
A blatant plug to my work FB page, but if you look at the last pics you will see what I see on most 2.7lt failures I pull down.
LAND ROVER - Re-power your Land Rover... - Aztech 4x4 Mechanical | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/aztech4x4/posts/2315501605189308)

[BradC]

Just some info....
A blatant plug to my work FB page, but if you look at the last pics you will see what I see on most 2.7lt failures I pull down.
LAND ROVER - Re-power your Land Rover... - Aztech 4x4 Mechanical | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/aztech4x4/posts/2315501605189308)

Those big end pics make me want to vomit. I've always wondered about the feasibility of a bottom end re-build on the TDV6.