Major fault causes end to holiday... Turbo issues

[noyakfat]

Yesterday about 145 km East of Norseman, WA, heading East, loss of power and engine light came on. I pulled over immediately. Couldn't see anything obvious so called LR Assist. While waiting for the tow coming from Norseman, I discovered the (recently replaced) hose from snorkel to air box had pulled out at the airbox end.

I figured it must have been sucking hot air from near the exhaust manifold and the sensor told the brain box it was too hot, hence the warning light. Concerned there could have been some other issue, I thought it best to get back to Norseman and have it assessed.

Back at Norseman this morning, the mechanic cleared the faults and suggested it was likely due to the hose disconnection and he fixed it up. Suggestion was to wait 24 hours to allow sealant to fully cure before moving on. $127 later a seemingly easy fix and I was a happy camper.

HOWEVER....

Subsequent road test revealed a loud hissing sound at each upshift. Further fault finding and turning of spanners by the very nice mechanic showed the turbo is "not far from seizing". He said the impeller had excessive free play and also was binding up when it should be easy to turn with a finger. It is drive-able but unreliable.

End result is, Defender and I have been trucked to Kalgoorlie, with vehicle and I due to be trucked to Southern LR in Cannington (Perth) tomorrow for a LR dealer to fix it. Then I fly home to Canberra on Saturday and LR Assist will truck the vehicle back to Canberra at their cost after it has been fixed.

Now I guess this will be quite an expensive fix with parts and labour combined. It is a 2014 model 110 with only 77,000 km on the clock. I have had the vehicle serviced every 10,000km at the same LR dealership in Canberra (where I bought it) since new. I don't thrash it and have never had an issue until now. Warranty of course ran out in April 2018.

Can anybody tell me who I need to talk to in Land Rover to discuss the possibility of this issue being covered by them? A contact number would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Nige

[alan48]

Hi,
when your 3 years warranty expires you still have 3 more years of cover IF you have been using LR service, likewise also 3 more years of roadside assist. It works that you can claim one major repair 100% in the first year after warranty, one repair for 50% in the second year and finally a 25% claim in the third year after warranty. This is a scheme that applies to Pumas as they would not offer 'extended warranty ' package, and this is what my dealer told me, and has been mentioned on AULRO before.
This only applies if you have been using dealer servicing--they may cover the lot as goodwill --so ask nicely. We have made use of this here in Sydney, so if your car is a 2014 then you still have some cover. Good luck.

[MLD]

If you get no joy from LR (if LR are like Audi best hold no expectation of goodwill), a recon turbo from Bailey Diesel (after refund on exchange) is about $850. Can't imagine there is much labour to replace unless the bolts are seized.

[weeds]

Do you have your own roadside assist/breakdown

Today I’ve had a failure to proceed, in Jervis Bay....RACQ Ultra are transporting the car to Sunshine Coast and flying me to Brisbane. I get into Brisbane tonight, car arrives next Thursday. From memory I have $3600 allocation.

Last day of trip so not so bad.

[SeanMurr123]

The service history will be in Land Rovers database if it was done at a dealer and you could ask the dealer that is doing the work to submit a goodwill warranty claim once they have assesed it. This gets sent to JLRAU Customer Service Dept. You could try and get a head start on it and plead your case here:

CUSTOMER RELATIONSHIP CENTRE


Please contact our Land Rover Customer Relationship Centre (CRC) team for all enquiries and concerns.
Call: 1800 625 642
8:00am to 8:00pm EST Monday to Friday
9:00am to 4:00pm EST Saturday
Email: crcau@jaguarlandrover.com


I also have a friend who drives a 2.2 Ranger as his work car and it detonated a turbo. It got towed to Ford and had a new turbo installed and back on the road the next day.

[rar110]

LRA and goodwill is a contradiction.

LRA has a legal obligation to warrant products of merchantable quality.

[noyakfat]

Hi everyone,

Firstly, thank-you for the very helpful replies.

As I sat in Kalgoorlie after my initial post, I sent an email to the CRC summarising the situation. I received a return email first thing the following morning, and a follow up phone call (both of which I missed as I was en-route to Perth in the tow truck).

They have confirmed a case has been raised.

I fly home to Canberra today. The vehicle has been left with Southern LR in Cannington, and they are going to send a report of some kind to CRC/LR with what they can find wrong with the vehicle.

I bought it new from Lennock LR in Canberra. It has always been serviced there, at the LR dealership. I have not missed a scheduled service, and in fact I have put the vehicle in for oil/filters etc every 10,000km.

I previously renewed my LR Assist package, and I must say, it was the best $180 I have spent. They paid for the original recovery tow back to Norseman, the tow to Kalgoorlie and then onto Perth and have advised me they will also pay for the tow back to Canberra. On top of this, they provided me with accommodation in Norseman, Kalgoorlie and Perth. The tow from Norseman to Perth alone cost $4k.

I paid for my flight to Canberra, but it's about the same as the fuel bill back across would have been anyway.

LR Assist have been excellent, communicative, and amenable to my requests within my coverage parameters.

My allocated CRC consultant advised she will contact me on Monday after speaking to the Southern LR staff about the situation with the vehicle.

Incidentally, the towie from Kalgoorlie said he had been bringing in lots of 3.2 L Ford Rangers lately. He said he has seen a few transmission issues with them.

We'll see what develops from here.

Thanks again for the advice.

Cheers,
Nige

[weeds]

Thanks for the update......seems to be progressing in a positive way

[Summiitt]

LRA and goodwill is a contradiction.

LRA has a legal obligation to warrant products of merchantable quality.

Lennock LR in Canberra went into bat with my 2012 130 that blew the motor at 85k, 5 months out of warrantee, I got a full long motor replaced at no charge, I was impressed with how the dealer and LR handled something that shouldn't have happened in the first place..
It does seem bit strange that if the turbo was to blame, they didn't fit a new one up to get you back on your holiday?

[rar110]

Lennock LR in Canberra went into bat with my 2012 130 that blew the motor at 85k, 5 months out of warrantee, I got a full long motor replaced at no charge, I was impressed with how the dealer and LR handled something that shouldn't have happened in the first place..
It does seem bit strange that if the turbo was to blame, they didn't fit a new one up to get you back on your holiday?

I agree. It seems to be dealers who push owner vehicle issues, particularly after the manufacturer warranty ends and statutory warranty takes over. Especially when it’s clear cut like in the present case. 70,000km failure is way less than merchantable quality. A turbo should last 400,000km minimum, with appropriate servicing.

[scarry]

LRA and goodwill is a contradiction.

LRA has a legal obligation to warrant products of merchantable quality.

And also if the vehicle was serviced as per manufacturers spec,at an Indie,or for that matter by any fully qualified workshop,and the service records were available,i would presume the outcome from LRA should be the same.

[DazzaTD5]

And also if the vehicle was serviced as per manufacturers spec,at an Indie,or for that matter by any fully qualified workshop,and the service records were available,i would presume the outcome from LRA should be the same.

Correct and good you bring this up for owners, there STILL seems to be this myth about having to use dealers to keep warranty.
Also with regards to other comments, its not dealers pushing manufacturers such as Jaguar Land Rover to do the right thing, its been the focus of the ACCC.

I recently had a customers new Range Rover Sport (the new all alloy model), had a major engine failure 2 months out of warranty, I personally went down to the dealer and supplied them the service records of the vehicle (which exceeded the manufacturers service specs) and the replacement engine wasnt even questioned.

In saying that I have well and truly lost faith in the reliability of any new Land Rover product and wont touch anything still under warranty except the Defender.

[noyakfat]

Well, it's been an interesting week.

Land Rover mechanical team at Cannington were unable to find anything wrong with the turbo, and instead diagnosed a split intercooler hose as the problem. I expressed my concern about the difference to the original diagnosis by the RAC mechanic, and they kindly offered to run further checks.

A couple of days later, I was again contacted and assured that they were unable to find any problem with the turbo, that the intercooler hose had been replaced and all appeared to be normal after extensive testing and on-road verification.

Base costs to me were a $114 hose and $360 labour, and all up it cost me about $527.

The vehicle should be on its way home to me soon.

Let's hope all is well :)

[rar110]

What did they say about the turbo excessive free play and binding?

If the turbo is really ok I would buying a full set of silicone hoses from Roverlord Off Road Spares (Mario on here)

[big harold]

That's why I do my own maintenance.
I would go with the split intercooler hose usually the one on the LHS 90 deg bend into inlet.
Common to split but very hard to see actual split in hose on vehicle.
I have 2 Defenders and both split hose @ 60K.
I also rang NRMA who Land Rover us for there assistance program local mechanic sends apprentice out with roll of
duct tape to tape it up after I already told them they would need a tow truck.
Land Rover and good will are fine but when I did my engine they wanted to split the bill.
There quote was $30K repaired myself for under $5K.
Get yourself a cheap code reader and keep in the glove box.
Mark

[Graeme]

What did they say about the turbo excessive free play and binding?

I'm reminded of my assessment of a faulty turbo on my then new '99 TD5 that had a performance issue. I found that the air side shaft felt loose and could be moved to cause the blades to touch the housing. However that turbo's shaft floated under oil pressure and the movement was normal, unlike a shaft that runs on ball-bearings.

The performance issue was found 30K kms later to be a faulty MAF when swapped with one from another TD5.

[rar110]

I remember my new Garrett GT2560 turbo (ball bearing) had movement,
that was like you say taken up by oil pressure. But not enough to hit the sides.

Also I carry silicone repair tape in the car to fix split hose problems temporarily.

[Zeros]

Do you have your own roadside assist/breakdown

Today I’ve had a failure to proceed, in Jervis Bay....RACQ Ultra are transporting the car to Sunshine Coast and flying me to Brisbane. I get into Brisbane tonight, car arrives next Thursday. From memory I have $3600 allocation.

Last day of trip so not so bad.

Hey Weeds, what caused your failure to proceed in Jervis Bay?

Sounds like great that RACQ. ...often it's not possible to transport vehicles fully loaded. Do you know which company they use?.

[noyakfat]

What did they say about the turbo excessive free play and binding?

If the turbo is really ok I would buying a full set of silicone hoses from Roverlord Off Road Spares (Mario on here)

They said they could not find anything at all out of spec or irregular with the turbo.

Only a month or so before the trip I tried to have some silicone turbo hoses installed, but unfortunately I had been mistakenly sent a set for the 2.4 engine not the 2.2, and when I returned them I found there were none available at the time for my 2.2.

What a bugger that it turns out the failed part is one that I wanted to replace earlier [bigsad].

Thanks for the contact advice for the hoses.

[Blknight.aus]

heres the thing with run in turbos.

when you shut em down and the thin synthetic oil is all out of the bearings if you push on and then try to turn the impeller its going to stick. (this is how your average joe does a turbo check rip off the inlet poke your fingers in there and try to wiggle it around and spin it.

90% of turbos are bush bearings and they rely on the oil pressure to turn them from bushes to bearings, no oil pressure no bearing, no bearing no easy spin.

for those playing at home, a wiggle check will get you some info, but its no longer enough back in the day when we were using tar as engine oil you could get away with it and get pretty close. if you do a wiggle check turn the thing a couple of times to make sure its not actually stuck and then disable the engines ability to start and with the inlet hose off crank it on the starter till the oil pressure come up (or start it, get oil pressure, stop it and then crank it on the starter without starting it while you watch the turbo).

IF it turns over swiftly and well with just the engine acting as a pump you're probably going to be ok.

[noyakfat]

heres the thing with run in turbos.

when you shut em down and the thin synthetic oil is all out of the bearings if you push on and then try to turn the impeller its going to stick. (this is how your average joe does a turbo check rip off the inlet poke your fingers in there and try to wiggle it around and spin it.

90% of turbos are bush bearings and they rely on the oil pressure to turn them from bushes to bearings, no oil pressure no bearing, no bearing no easy spin.

for those playing at home, a wiggle check will get you some info, but its no longer enough back in the day when we were using tar as engine oil you could get away with it and get pretty close. if you do a wiggle check turn the thing a couple of times to make sure its not actually stuck and then disable the engines ability to start and with the inlet hose off crank it on the starter till the oil pressure come up (or start it, get oil pressure, stop it and then crank it on the starter without starting it while you watch the turbo).

IF it turns over swiftly and well with just the engine acting as a pump you're probably going to be ok.

Thanks for that info, as that appears to be pretty much the process that was followed at Norseman. It explains how the initial diagnosis could reasonably be found to be different to the LR workshop diagnosis.

Cheers :)

[Eddie]

Had my 90 degree intercooler hose changed under warranty. I have a silicon hose set changed them except the 90 degree one. Question do you have to remove the coolent hoses above to get to it.
cheers Eddie

[discorevy]

Had my 90 degree intercooler hose changed under warranty. I have a silicon hose set changed them except the 90 degree one. Question do you have to remove the coolent hoses above to get to it.
cheers Eddie


I find it easier to swing the water pump out of the way to do that one

[POD]

I'm wondering if the title of this thread should be changed to something like 'Minor fault, incorrectly diagnosed, causes end to holiday'.

[noyakfat]

I'm wondering if the title of this thread should be changed to something like 'Minor fault, incorrectly diagnosed, causes end to holiday'.

Yep that is probably right as it all seems to have worked out.

I've had no further issue since the replacement of the split intercooler hose in WA. Throughout the entire process I was well looked after, and I have to say the LR Roadside Assist folks were brilliant.

Thanks to all forum members for their input.