All new defender

[weeds]

Any new news in this article or am I behind the time.

2020 Land Rover Defender: Everything We Know (https://apple.news/ANhSxavOHRLewIBg8DJOgPA)

[Zeros]

Any new news in this article or am I behind the time.

2020 Land Rover Defender: Everything We Know (https://apple.news/ANhSxavOHRLewIBg8DJOgPA)

Thanks Weeds, some good intel there. Codename ‘Darwin’ is interesting! First time I’ve heard that. As is hybrid and camper roof info.

...But I thought you were buying a Toyota? [bigwhistle][bigrolf]

[weeds]

With codename Darwin it must be being developed for Australian conditions

[grey_ghost]

Interesting reading, but again - until it’s official it’s still conjecture..,

[DiscoMick]

Very interesting. Thanks.

[Zeros]

With codename Darwin it must be being developed for Australian conditions

Hopefully, although of course Charles Darwin also happens to be one of the most globally famous Englishmen. I'd hazard a guess it is not Darwin the Australian city that was at the forefront of LR's mind. I'd love to be proven wrong!

[DiscoMick]

Darwin = original thinking?

[weeds]

Maybe they are talking about the Darwin Awards......it could very well get a mention.

[DI5CO]

There was some more news on Car Sales today!

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/new-land-rover-defender-just-days-away-115967

[harro]

Any mention of fuel capacity yet?

[Homestar]

Will believe it when I see it.

[rar110]

One media outfit reporting on a story by another media outlet. That is a bit funny, although pretty common.

However, given JLR seem to be at an advanced stage of prototype testing, it would make sense for JLR to reveal the new Defender to maximise the free marketing opportunities as part of the 2018 70th anniversary events.

Some Defender traditionalists fears and scepticism may be about to be confirmed. [emoji15]

[Robmacca]

Spoke to Ben from APT about how his D5 accessories & protection products going.... He informed me that what he has developed is strong but what it bolts to is the problem with him basically damaging what the gear bolts to (ie the floor pan of the D5 or what u call it). If the new Defender has the same sort of Floorpan, then there might be a while before any H/D protection equipment is listed on the market....

[loanrangie]

Spoke to Ben from APT about how his D5 accessories & protection products going.... He informed me that what he has developed is strong but what it bolts to is the problem with him basically damaging what the gear bolts to (ie the floor pan of the D5 or what u call it). If the new Defender has the same sort of Floorpan, then there might be a while before any H/D protection equipment is listed on the market....It will have a subframe of some kind like all monocoque body shell's, access thru the body work may be the issue.

[blackrangie]

Being the defender, i doubt it will be too long, svx might have from factory
Spoke to Ben from APT about how his D5 accessories & protection products going.... He informed me that what he has developed is strong but what it bolts to is the problem with him basically damaging what the gear bolts to (ie the floor pan of the D5 or what u call it). If the new Defender has the same sort of Floorpan, then there might be a while before any H/D protection equipment is listed on the market....

[blackrangie]

There was some more news on Car Sales today!

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/new-land-rover-defender-just-days-away-115967Thats a big call, released by eoy!

I have seen that a fair bit online, will be released during 70th annihttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181208/753773b891e6d7562677ae3e21715543.jpg

[rangieman]

Any mention of fuel capacity yet?
Some would be more interested in battery capacity [bigwhistle]
Im with Gav dont care with all the guessing games i can wait [bigrolf]

[harro]

Some would be more interested in battery capacity [bigwhistle]
Im with Gav dont care with all the guessing games i can wait [bigrolf]

Well i am not the least bit interested in any of the electric variations and if they don’t find a way to fit the proposed 3.0L Ingenium diesel in it I won’t even bother with a test drive.

The output specs on the 2.0L might be impressive but not for me.
So no 3.0L and I will be in the market for a 76 series cruiser.

My Td5 is overdue for an upgrade but I’m not going backward with a towing vehicle...


Paul.

[Robmacca]

It will have a subframe of some kind like all monocoque body shell's, access thru the body work may be the issue.

Yeah and that is the issue apparently.... bolting protection items to the monocoque under body causing the monocoque to bend...

[blackrangie]

Hows Lucky 8 going in this regard, they usually get most things sorted pretty quick on the new models

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181209/10cbd61ba8f4bd58b8cb00bbb545f790.jpg

[harro]

Well i am not the least bit interested in any of the electric variations and if they don’t find a way to fit the proposed 3.0L Ingenium diesel in it I won’t even bother with a test drive.

The output specs on the 2.0L might be impressive but not for me.
So no 3.0L and I will be in the market for a 76 series cruiser.

My Td5 is overdue for an upgrade but I’m not going backward with a towing vehicle...


Paul.

Well I have done it, sick to death of waiting for the bloody unknown!
I now own a 76 series Landcruiser.
Still got my td5 but it will have to go.....
Didnt want independent suspension or any of that electric stuff so exit one Defender owner.
Very sad and a lot sadder when she goes but age and comfort demand something a tad more modern and comfortable with an aircon that actually works.

Still looking forward to the new Defender and hopefully sometime in the future I will once again be a proud defer owner but for now, oh well the darkside😎

Cheers,
Paul.

[Nick S]

Completely understand, I’d be going elsewhere too if I was in the market for a new vehicle. LR have become a joke with the new Defender

[loanrangie]

Well I have done it, sick to death of waiting for the bloody unknown!
I now own a 76 series Landcruiser.
Still got my td5 but it will have to go.....
Didnt want independent suspension or any of that electric stuff so exit one Defender owner.
Very sad and a lot sadder when she goes but age and comfort demand something a tad more modern and comfortable with an aircon that actually works.

Still looking forward to the new Defender and hopefully sometime in the future I will once again be a proud defer owner but for now, oh well the darkside[emoji41]

Cheers,
Paul.I reckon 2L for the 90 and 3L for the 110 .

[manic]

I now own a 76 series Landcruiser.
Still got my td5 but it will have to go.....
Didnt want independent suspension or any of that electric stuff so exit one Defender owner.
Very sad and a lot sadder when she goes but age and comfort demand something a tad more modern and comfortable with an aircon that actually works.


From TD5, a tad more modern with aircon that works = defender puma? 76 series is a step back to leaf springs![emoji848]

Mods - banish him! [emoji16]

[scarry]

From TD5, a tad more modern with aircon that works = defender puma? 76 series is a step back to leaf springs![emoji848]

Mods - banish him! [emoji16]

At least the 76 will be extremely reliable,unlike the last run of Defenders.......

Now i gotta find a rock to hide under[biggrin]

Unfortunately,you don't have to look far on here to find issue after issue

And there is also one in my sig[bighmmm]

[rar110]

Congrats on the new purchase.

So how about some drive by the pants comparisons with the TD5.

[Zeros]

I’d be really interested to hear your comparison btw 76 Tojo and Defender. What were your deciding factors, other than better aircon, over low km Puma? How does it compare driving now?

[harro]

From TD5, a tad more modern with aircon that works = defender puma? 76 series is a step back to leaf springs![emoji848]

Mods - banish him! [emoji16]

It has had a Jmacx rear coil conversion and GVM upgrade!
also fixes the narrow rear wheels track issue😉.

All done by previous owner.

Amongst a few other things😎

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2017-Toyota-Landcruiser-GXL-Manual-4x4/OAG-AD-16458879?pageSource=details&id=OAG-AD-16458879

[harro]

I reckon 2L for the 90 and 3L for the 110 .

Why penalise the short wheelbase brigade?
If it can fit under the bonnet then stick it in😀

[grey_ghost]

Wow - lots of fruit and low km’s. Good for you but I wonder why the seller sold it? He spent all that money and doesn’t like it?

[harro]

Wow - lots of fruit and low km’s. Good for you but I wonder why the seller sold it? He spent all that money and doesn’t like it?

Word from the dealer was the missus didn't like it, to truck like for her.
Traded it back in on a 200 series............

Paul.

[rick130]

At least the 76 will be extremely reliable,unlike the last run of Defenders.......
[bighmmm]

JC posted a couple of photos on FB in the last week of his latest Tdci repairs.
Great QC/build/parts quality.....[emoji15]

[manic]

It has had a Jmacx rear coil conversion and GVM upgrade!
also fixes the narrow rear wheels track issue[emoji6].

All done by previous owner.

Amongst a few other things[emoji41]

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2017-Toyota-Landcruiser-GXL-Manual-4x4/OAG-AD-16458879?pageSource=details&id=OAG-AD-16458879It does look good with all the mods. Hope it runs well for you.

Just in case its not too late....

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2016-Land-Rover-Defender-Manual-AWD-MY16/OAG-AD-16666166

[weeds]

Well I have done it, sick to death of waiting for the bloody unknown!
I now own a 76 series Landcruiser.
Still got my td5 but it will have to go.....
Didnt want independent suspension or any of that electric stuff so exit one Defender owner.
Very sad and a lot sadder when she goes but age and comfort demand something a tad more modern and comfortable with an aircon that actually works.

Still looking forward to the new Defender and hopefully sometime in the future I will once again be a proud defer owner but for now, oh well the darkside[emoji41]

Cheers,
Paul.

In a couple of months I’ll be hanging out with a few Overland Troopies.....will be having a close look and a good olde chat

[blackrangie]

At least the 76 will be extremely reliable,unlike the last run of Defenders.......

Now i gotta find a rock to hide under[biggrin]

Unfortunately,you don't have to look far on here to find issue after issue

And there is also one in my sig[bighmmm]

With no disrespect to the new buyer, this simply isn't true.

In standard form they are far from reliable.

There is a long list of things that need fixing or adressing on the 76/79series before they start to become reliable and capable with real outback or hard track use.

[blackrangie]

It's funny the Toyota reliability marketing, they don't put this in the ads [emoji23]

As most know, the track massively(4inches!) different front to back

Uncomfortable and restrictive leafs that hang under rear axle housing.

Fix both above $10k

Alternator that fails on nearly every decent offroad trip(Last a few weeks in mines) $3k fix to watercooled

Starter in valley fails if you get water into bonnet vent as it doesn't drain out and starter dies. No fix I've heard and very very hard to get to.


no auto option, trucklike manual high rpm @ 110kph auto fix but good conv $20k


fake snorkel factory let's water in, safari 4inch fix

bad handbrake, Nissan patrol Mark's 4x4 fix.

Injectors are very susceptible to dirt and water, need high quality pre filter.


Basically fundamentally badly engineered driveline leaves you fighting two different ruts on beach and unstable rear on hills, fundamental parts of engine are unreliable due to location of Alt and starter and fuel setup, snorkel that is meant for water crossing causes engine failure if not fixed. Handbrake can cause death.

They lift front wheels like crazy on steep hills especially when loaded and gets even worse with 79 traybacks that get heavy canopy added by most.

Injectors can leave you stranded in the outback.

Most above fixable but you must add all that onto the purchase price if you want to use it offroad properly. Above is already around 35-40k.

Real price new is 100k if you want to address some of the issues, thats before you start the real mods that everyone does to them to try and keep up with the landies in the ruff stuff ha.

125k easy with mods.

In Gwagon commercial territory now.

Now defenders have their problems too, but I don't remember them being anywhere near as long or as fundamentally bad as the above.

Or for 100k you could get a good LR shop to build a very reliable big lap capable low k 2015/2016 defender with all the fruit.

For 125k you would have a dream Defender,Disco, Rangie with LS3/6L80 or your choice of desiel/auto, Ford 9 rear and all the fruit.

Just my take on reality, don't mean to offend, just what I've heard from others and mechsnics that work on them, maybe Toyota has fixed some of the above, however they are certainly not a step up from a built defender if real 4x4 and touring is what your into imo.

[scarry]

With no disrespect to the new buyer, this simply isn't true.

In standard form they are far from reliable.

There is a long list of things that need fixing or adressing on the 76/79series before they start to become reliable and capable with real outback or hard track use.

No vehicle doesn’t need mods for hard track use.

Whatever the brand.

As for reliability,and a comparison,


Now let’s have a look at the MAJOR issues with the last run of defenders.

Wonderful example of great engineering,you only have to look at one example the adapter shaft,which is a show stopper.

I haven’t got time to type 300 words,a quick search on here will find them easy,oh,and just as an example,have a look at Diggers posts,and guys that work on them all day,such as JC,and Dazza.

I think it’s time to remove those rose coloured glasses.

[DiscoMick]

It's only a problem if it wasn't greased.
That's a big difference to having to fit a whole new rear suspension to a 79.

[scarry]

It's funny the Toyota reliability marketing, they don't put this in the ads [emoji23]

As most know, the track massively(4inches!) different front to back

Uncomfortable and restrictive leafs that hang under rear axle housing.

Fix both above $10k

Alternator that fails on nearly every decent offroad trip(Last a few weeks in mines) $3k fix to watercooled

Starter in valley fails if you get water into bonnet vent as it doesn't drain out and starter dies. No fix I've heard and very very hard to get to.


no auto option, trucklike manual high rpm @ 110kph auto fix but good conv $20k


fake snorkel factory let's water in, safari 4inch fix

bad handbrake, Nissan patrol Mark's 4x4 fix.

Injectors are very susceptible to dirt and water, need high quality pre filter.


Basically fundamentally badly engineered driveline leaves you fighting two different ruts on beach and unstable rear on hills, fundamental parts of engine are unreliable due to location of Alt and starter and fuel setup, snorkel that is meant for water crossing causes engine failure if not fixed. Handbrake can cause death.

They lift front wheels like crazy on steep hills especially when loaded and gets even worse with 79 traybacks that get heavy canopy added by most.

Injectors can leave you stranded in the outback.

Most above fixable but you must add all that onto the purchase price if you want to use it offroad properly. Above is already around 35-40k.

Real price new is 100k if you want to address some of the issues, thats before you start the real mods that everyone does to them to try and keep up with the landies in the ruff stuff ha.

125k easy with mods.

In Gwagon commercial territory now.

Now defenders have their problems too, but I don't remember them being anywhere near as long or as fundamentally bad as the above.

Or for 100k you could get a good LR shop to build a very reliable big lap capable low k 2015/2016 defender with all the fruit.

For 125k you would have a dream Defender,Disco, Rangie with LS3/6L80 or your choice of desiel/auto, Ford 9 rear and all the fruit.

Just my take on reality, don't mean to offend, just what I've heard from others and mechsnics that work on them, maybe Toyota has fixed some of the above, however they are certainly not a step up from a built defender if real 4x4 and touring is what your into imo.

Oh well,I suppose that’s why they can’t sell them.

Not just here but all over the world.

In fact if you go to places like East Africa,they are the vehicle of choice for all the safari companies,and many others.

There are literally thousands of them.

Mention a Land Rover to them that’s older than a 200 or 300 TDI,And they just laugh.

Had them,they say,never again.[bigwhistle]

[scarry]

It's only a problem if it wasn't greased.
That's a big difference to having to fit a whole new rear suspension to a 79.

There are quite a few on here that have had them greased and they still failed.

It’s a big job to get to it just to grease it properly.

And it has to be done regularly

Some have fitted the mod and they still fail.

And a whole new suspension system doesn’t HAVE to be fitted,many find them fine as they are.

Many vehicles have track differences,as an example some Patrol models.

At least the track difference isn’t a show stopper,unlike many of the Defender issues.

[harro]

Just a heads up on the track difference for those that may not be aware.
this has not always been the case and only became an issue with the introduction of the v8.

Toyota simply widened the track in the front to accomodate the 8 and didn’t bother to correct the rear, probably just to save $$.
What is primarily a work truck adapted to recreational use means it probably won’t be fixed in the near future.

There are various options available to correct the issue, the cheapest being spacers (illegal I believe) varying the front and rear rim offset (not good for carrying spares) and then upwards to the full rear end coil conversion.
All at the owners expense obviously.
But as said many just put up with it and claim no or little I’ll effects

Toyota also finally acknowledged that the fifth gear ratio inherited from the 6 cylinder days was not tall enough to do the v8 justice when cruising. Up around 2,400 rpm at 100 km/h.

A taller second and fifth gear were introduced in 2016 moving 100 km/h cruising to 2,000 rpm with the subsequent economy gains.

As for reliability?
I will just have to wait and see however I can say the td5 has never let us down in 15 years of ownership and we have certainly used it.




Paul.

[rangieman]

Good luck Harro with your choice [wink11]
Every car out there has their own quirks [bigwhistle]

Some people will live with them ,

Some people try to defend them [bighmmm]

Me im a tragic so fight you Bastards .
147818

[veebs]

I think it’s time to remove those rose coloured glasses.

I thought that was blackrangie's point? Addressing the standard issue, Australian rose coloured glasses when dealing with anything Toyota?

I do agree with your later posts though - there is no perfect vehicle. I'm perfectly happy with my D4 because it suits my (our) use. Obviously, it doesn't suit other people, just as a 76 series won't adorn my driveway any time soon.

I am excited at the prospect of the new defender being what looks like (or intended to look like) the spiritual successor to the D4. I do feel for the true old-school Defender owners - I've been there. When the D5 came out, my heart broke too. :(

[manic]

At least the track difference isn’t a show stopper,unlike many of the Defender issues.

Many? Have a go at pulling them out of the archives, 10 years of puma posts to enjoy .... and then head over to the toyo forums and have a look at their show stoppers. Wont that be fun!

Harro had a TD5, and just confessed 15 years without a 'show stopper'. The replacement toyo has a lot to live up to!

As does the new defender!!

[scarry]

Many? Have a go at pulling them out of the archives, 10 years of puma posts to enjoy .... and then head over to the toyo forums and have a look at their show stoppers. Wont that be fun!

Harro had a TD5, and just confessed 15 years without a 'show stopper'. The replacement toyo has a lot to live up to!

As does the new defender!!

The Toyo will live up to it easy.

The TD5 and earlier Deefers weren't too bad,it was the later ones that had the issues.

Its a shame really,because they were the end of an era.

Been on a couple of Toyota forums for years,so i recon i have a fair idea how they go,and run a fleet of Toyota vans,have done for over 10yrs.

Enough said

Oh,for the OP,one issue with those 70 series is the wheel bearing set up,it needs a lot of maintenance.

But having the Jmax set up it may be different and needs less maintenance?

[JDNSW]

Interestingly, I have had just three showstoppers with my 110 in 640,000km over 33 years - alternator failure; starter solenoid (both nippon-denso); non existent weld on front radius arm chassis mount. Only the last strictly a Landrover issue.

[grey_ghost]

Oh dear JDNSW - time for a new vehicle... [emoji6]

[manic]

The TD5 and earlier Deefers weren't too bad,it was the later ones that had the issues.

Its a shame really,because they were the end of an era.

Been on a couple of Toyota forums for years,so i recon i have a fair idea how they go,and run a fleet of Toyota vans,have done for over 10yrs.

Enough said



Nice, how many pumas you been running?

I bag the pumas every now and again, mostly for not having bulkhead vents ! They introduced some weakneses in the drive line and some fuel intolerance issues but most figured out how to set it straight fairly early, and it costs less than bringi ng a 70 up to spec.. we drove two fairly stock 2.4s hard across the gunbarrel and beyond without issues. I'll stick up for them against the 70 series!

[DiscoMick]

Only issue with mine has been a rattling clutch and the air-con not being as cold as I would like.

[Zeros]

Toyota’s have great aircon. That’s it. Apart from using a lot more fuel.

Dare I say it? All the 70 series I’ve driven for work over the years have been agricultural, uncomfortable and not as capable compared to my Defenders. They cost a lot more to run too and major components can fail just like all vehicles. The narrow rear track, with the horse and cart springs, is a $10k fix alone. And then you still have leaf springs.

Only one showstopper with my TDI in 320k - seized alternator bearing.
None touch wood for Puma in 92k. ...Replaced/lubed adapter shaft as precaution before it stopped.

Having said all that, if I was in market for a new one, obviously 70 series is all that’s available. Second hand? Plenty of great Defenders with all the fruit being traded on Tojos are available!

Back to ‘all new Defender’, all new D4 by the looks of it. Which makes a 70 series the only real option for a work vehicle.

We’ll see! If Defender is hybrid / EV, HD and cones in a dualcab it will go well against Tojo. If it’s another escapist SUV it won’t be a Defender in my book. And Tojo cones out in front again in the new vehicle stakes and classic Defenders will hold their value.

[scarry]

Interestingly, I have had just three showstoppers with my 110 in 640,000km over 33 years - alternator failure; starter solenoid (both nippon-denso); non existent weld on front radius arm chassis mount. Only the last strictly a Landrover issue.

Well over 1.5 mill Km in work vans,of one particular brand,still waiting for a show stopper.

What brand,no we won't go there.[bighmmm]

33 yrs old doesn't sound like a late model vehicle to me.....

As i said it was the later ones that had issues,many posts on here,have a look at a few from JC,Dazza,etc,guys that work on them all day.

Oh, and Digger.

And there has been one in my sig for 10yrs.....

Lets just hope the new one is what people are after.

[DiscoMick]

Toyota’s have great aircon. That’s it. Apart from using a lot more fuel.

Dare I say it? All the 70 series I’ve driven for work over the years have been agricultural, uncomfortable and not as capable compared to my Defenders. They cost a lot more to run too and major components can fail just like all vehicles. The narrow rear track, with the horse and cart springs, is a $10k fix alone. And then you still have leaf springs.

Only one showstopper with my TDI in 320k - seized alternator bearing.
None touch wood for Puma in 92k. ...Replaced/lubed adapter shaft as precaution before it stopped.

Having said all that, if I was in market for a new one, obviously 70 series is all that’s available. Second hand? Plenty of great Defenders with all the fruit being traded on Tojos are available!

Back to ‘all new Defender’, all new D4 by the looks of it. Which makes a 70 series the only real option for a work vehicle.

We’ll see! If Defender is hybrid / EV, HD and cones in a dualcab it will go well against Tojo. If it’s another escapist SUV it won’t be a Defender in my book. And Tojo cones out in front again in the new vehicle stakes and classic Defenders will hold their value.My Puma has gone up in value since I bought it. [emoji16]

[blackrangie]

Well over 1.5 mill Km in work vans,of one particular brand,still waiting for a show stopper.

What brand,no we won't go there.[bighmmm]



If JLR made a van with basically nothing in it, I'm sure it would be relatively reliable to the highace, especially generally speaking with how long lasting LR engines are.
Any company can build vans without showstoppers imo, they are so simple.
Comparing Van's to JLR 4x4s is not really fair imo.

Maybe you picked a good year for your couple of vans however quick search online:

Hiace issues:

AustralianCar.Reviews: #1 for Reviews and Used Car Valuations (http://m.australiancar.reviews/reviews.php#!content=recalls&make=Toyota&model=HiAce&gen=898)

Here's an example from link

"Toyota HiAce with 1KD-FTV engine: injector failure
It is not uncommon for the injectors in the 1KD-FTV engine to fail around 120,000 to 140,000 kilometres, though they may fail as early as 75,000 kilometres or last 250,000 kilometres. Symptoms of a failing injector include:

A loud 'knock' noise that is audible when the windows are down, particularly when the engine is cold;
Poor fuel economy;
An erratic or rough idle; and,
Rough running, particularly under load at low engine speeds"

Toyota HiAce H200.I (2005-2010) Reviews - ProductReview.com.au (https://www.productreview.com.au/p/toyota-hiace/m/h200-i-2005-2010.html)

Pic from link

........


On the other hand building a well rounded on/offroad 4x4 that is comfortable, capable, safe and also reliable is something that is extremely difficult as is seen by the many potential showstoppers the tdv8 70series have from the factory.

The point was not to bash other brands or offend rather to point out that the reason people say Yotas are perfect and reliable and trail ready bla bla is because of their marketing saying they are tough and reliable, people believe it without looking at the facts.

All 4x4s need a few things tweaked as no company gets it all right, saying toyota 4x4s are more reliable is a massive stretch when you look at the facts.

Will they get the balance right on the new defender, we hope so, I reckon they will keep most people happy.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/ed523316b646101f5e2948a7d19fbb7c.jpg

[DiscoMick]

Talking of vans, the last Defender's had engines and transmissions from the Ford Transit and Ranger, which are tough and reliable. Transits get flogged to death all over the world. The rest of the Defender is well proven, simple and reliable. Let's get real.

[donh54]

Oh well,I suppose that’s why they can’t sell them.

Not just here but all over the world.

In fact if you go to places like East Africa,they are the vehicle of choice for all the safari companies,and many others.

There are literally thousands of them.

Mention a Land Rover to them that’s older than a 200 or 300 TDI,And they just laugh.

Had them,they say,never again.[bigwhistle]NGO agencies in Africa had issues with LR going to coils. Made the vehicles too susceptible to poorly trained drivers traveling too fast in rough terrain.
I got that info from a bloke who worked for the UN there for 20 years or so.

[scarry]

If JLR made a van with basically nothing in it, I'm sure it would be relatively reliable to the highace, especially generally speaking with how long lasting LR engines are.
Any company can build vans without showstoppers imo, they are so simple.
Comparing Van's to JLR 4x4s is not really fair imo.

Maybe you picked a good year for your couple of vans however quick search online:

Hiace issues:

AustralianCar.Reviews: #1 for Reviews and Used Car Valuations (http://m.australiancar.reviews/reviews.php#!content=recalls&make=Toyota&model=HiAce&gen=898)

Here's an example from link

"Toyota HiAce with 1KD-FTV engine: injector failure
It is not uncommon for the injectors in the 1KD-FTV engine to fail around 120,000 to 140,000 kilometres, though they may fail as early as 75,000 kilometres or last 250,000 kilometres. Symptoms of a failing injector include:

A loud 'knock' noise that is audible when the windows are down, particularly when the engine is cold;
Poor fuel economy;
An erratic or rough idle; and,
Rough running, particularly under load at low engine speeds"

Toyota HiAce H200.I (2005-2010) Reviews - ProductReview.com.au (https://www.productreview.com.au/p/toyota-hiace/m/h200-i-2005-2010.html)

Pic from link

........


On the other hand building a well rounded on/offroad 4x4 that is comfortable, capable, safe and also reliable is something that is extremely difficult as is seen by the many potential showstoppers the tdv8 70series have from the factory.

The point was not to bash other brands or offend rather to point out that the reason people say Yotas are perfect and reliable and trail ready bla bla is because of their marketing saying they are tough and reliable, people believe it without looking at the facts.

All 4x4s need a few things tweaked as no company gets it all right, saying toyota 4x4s are more reliable is a massive stretch when you look at the facts.

Will they get the balance right on the new defender, we hope so, I reckon they will keep most people happy.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/ed523316b646101f5e2948a7d19fbb7c.jpg

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Its more so peoples own experience,than anything else,IMHO.

My experience is in a previous post,and many say the same,by far the most reliable vehicle i have ever owned.Thats over a 10yr period and millions of K's.

Maybe i am just lucky,or have drivers that look after the vehicles and they are serviced correctly?

Showstoppers from the factory?Sure you have the brand and type of vehicle correct?

Maybe we will have a look at a few LR issues,online,if you want to compare.....

Or maybe some of those vehicle surveys?

Better not go there[biggrin]

We could go on and on,but you are correct,nothing is perfect and 100% reliable,and every vehicle is a compromise in one way or the other.

Some are just more of a compromise than others.

I think the new deefer will suit some,but as a remote area tourer,maybe not,it will no doubt be full of electronics,and complicated,same as LR's other current offerings.And the lack of dealers in regional areas will put buyers off.Too far to go even for a service or a small warranty issue.

Time will tell,but no doubt the unreliable,low volume, 70 series will soldier on,as it does all over the world,with all its faults,archaic design,leaf springs,and thirst..[biggrin]

And its shocking resale,as no one wants one,and,in Aus,if bought new, 5yr,unlimited KM warranty for private buyers,160 000km for company vehicles.

Anyway, its all guesswork,lets see what LR come up with.

[Vern]

Talking of vans, the last Defender's had engines and transmissions from the Ford Transit and Ranger, which are tough and reliable. Transits get flogged to death all over the world. The rest of the Defender is well proven, simple and reliable. Let's get real.Mate of mine had 2 replacement engines in his 2015 transit in under 50kkm from new, ended up trading it in as it was a bloody nightmare.

[rangieman]

Mate of mine had 2 replacement engines in his 2015 transit in under 50kkm from new, ended up trading it in as it was a bloody nightmare.
We have 2 at work and they are flogged to death by any one and every one and they just amaze me at their toughness and reliability honestly .

I know one of them i have had 2 tonne in it a couple of times and the thing just laps it up [bigwhistle]

Not having a go but we all hear these horror story`s of a mate of a mate that owned one .

Yes there are the odd ones in any brand that are lemons which we all hear about .

We also need to hear the positive sides as well to help even the negative`s out [wink11]

[scarry]

We have 2 at work and they are flogged to death by any one and every one and they just amaze me at their toughness and reliability honestly .
I know one of them i have had 2 tonne in it a couple of times and the thing just laps it up [bigwhistle]
Not having a go but we all hear these horror story`s of a mate of a mate that owned one .
Yes there are the odd ones in any brand that are lemons which we all hear about .
We also need to hear the positive sides as well to help even the negative`s out [wink11]

Like the mate of mine that had continual issues with a VW van,hated the thing.
Continual overheating and going into limp mode was the usual issues.

After quite a few years,he took it to an Indi,and found out the idiots at the dealer had fitted a rad made for the smaller engine.
That rad had been in there for years.
So it wasn't VW at all,it was the incompetent dealer that caused the issue.

[Vern]

We have 2 at work and they are flogged to death by any one and every one and they just amaze me at their toughness and reliability honestly .

I know one of them i have had 2 tonne in it a couple of times and the thing just laps it up [bigwhistle]

Not having a go but we all hear these horror story`s of a mate of a mate that owned one .

Yes there are the odd ones in any brand that are lemons which we all hear about .

We also need to hear the positive sides as well to help even the negative`s out [wink11]Stop having a go at me Chris, you're so mean[emoji6]. Anyway, he wasn't a mate of a mate, he was an actual mate. [emoji39].

As for other vans, can't fault my iload, not as nice as my transporter was, but in 200kkm, all its had done to it apart from front brake pads, is a clutch (3000km ago) which still worked great, just the dual mass flywheel was starting to get noisy.

[blackrangie]

Maybe i am just lucky,or have drivers that look after the vehicles and they are serviced correctly?

Showstoppers from the factory?Sure you have the brand and type of vehicle correct?

Maybe we will have a look at a few LR issues,online,if you want to compare.....

Or maybe some of those vehicle surveys?

Better not go there[biggrin]

We could go on and on,but you are correct,nothing is perfect and 100% reliable,and every vehicle is a compromise in one way or the other.

Some are just more of a compromise than others.

I think the new deefer will suit some,but as a remote area tourer,maybe not,it will no doubt be full of electronics,and complicated,same as LR's other current offerings.And the lack of dealers in regional areas will put buyers off.Too far to go even for a service or a small warranty issue.



Again, not the point

Point is, Yota fans believe 70series (in particular 79series) are the ultimate 4x4, reliable and perfect from the factory.

Of course there are going to be good and bad fender reviews online no one is denying this. I put the hiace reviews and common problems as an example of the point, Toyota marketing/public perception vs reality.

Saying a hiace is reliable and then saying well the 70 series must be too is a non point, many co's build a reliable van, and a 4x4 is a different ballgame, from what we can see most Van's are as reliable as each other these days anyway. Great your happy with your couple of vans though and they have been good for you [emoji1419]


As above extensive post pointing out the factory issues with V8 79 series there are multiple around 10 defects from the factory that need addressing before you do a big lap in one. Including around 5 showstopper issues.

Are standard defenders the ultimate in reliability from the factory, no.

Does the LATEST defender have any showstoppers from the factory? Yes

I've heard the gearbox-lt230 spline needs a lubrication mod for the spline (4wd industries do a good one) Is this still the case with the latest models?
Rear diff still an issue?
Anyone got any more late puma factory showstoppers?

.........

Are standard 79 series the ultimate in reliability from the factory, no.

Does the LATEST 79series have any showstoppers from the factory? Yes

Snorkel: lets water in airbox, engine.(fix avail, fit safari)

Alt: hangs almost inline with Diff, 1 decent muddy waterlogged road or dirty crossing and its cooked. (Fix avail 3k)

Starter: Mounted in valley of V8, water crossing come through bonnet vent, submerge part of starter in valley and don't drain out leading to starter failure (fix is to replace when fails, very hard location)

Injectors: overly sensitive and hate any dirt or water (preventative fix, fit very good pre filter water seperator,alarm)

Wheel bearings: if not maintained constantly will can prematurely fail.

No rose coloured glasses in sight [emoji41]

How will the new defender go? Based on all the testing, pretty well
Will it have issues to address? Yes

[rangieman]

Stop having a go at me Chris, you're so mean[emoji6]. Anyway, he wasn't a mate of a mate, he was an actual mate. [emoji39].

As for other vans, can't fault my iload, not as nice as my transporter was, but in 200kkm, all its had done to it apart from front brake pads, is a clutch (3000km ago) which still worked great, just the dual mass flywheel was starting to get noisy.
Not trying to split hairs but you get the drift [wink11]

[scarry]

Again, not the point

Point is, Yota fans believe 70series (in particular 79series) are the ultimate 4x4, reliable and perfect from the factory.

Of course there are going to be good and bad fender reviews online no one is denying this. I put the hiace reviews and common problems as an example of the point, Toyota marketing/public perception vs reality.

Saying a hiace is reliable and then saying well the 70 series must be too is a non point, many co's build a reliable van, and a 4x4 is a different ballgame, from what we can see most Van's are as reliable as each other these days anyway. Great your happy with your couple of vans though and they have been good for you [emoji1419]


As above extensive post pointing out the factory issues with V8 79 series there are multiple around 10 defects from the factory that need addressing before you do a big lap in one. Including around 5 showstopper issues.

Are standard defenders the ultimate in reliability from the factory, no.

Does the LATEST defender have any showstoppers from the factory? Yes

I've heard the gearbox-lt230 spline needs a lubrication mod for the spline (4wd industries do a good one) Is this still the case with the latest models?
Rear diff still an issue?
Anyone got any more late puma factory showstoppers?

.........

Are standard 79 series the ultimate in reliability from the factory, no.

Does the LATEST 79series have any showstoppers from the factory? Yes

Snorkel: lets water in airbox, engine.(fix avail, fit safari)

Alt: hangs almost inline with Diff, 1 decent muddy waterlogged road or dirty crossing and its cooked. (Fix avail 3k)

Starter: Mounted in valley of V8, water crossing come through bonnet vent, submerge part of starter in valley and don't drain out leading to starter failure (fix is to replace when fails, very hard location)

Injectors: overly sensitive and hate any dirt or water (preventative fix, fit very good pre filter water seperator,alarm)

Wheel bearings: if not maintained constantly will can prematurely fail.

No rose coloured glasses in sight [emoji41]

How will the new defender go? Based on all the testing, pretty well
Will it have issues to address? Yes

:Rolling::Rolling:

I think i will just leave the above here so others have twice the chance to laugh at it.

All your doing is going around in circles,and tripping over yourself on your travels.....[bighmmm]

Oh,and when does a factory fitted raised air intake suddenly become a waterproof snorkel?

Whether fitted by Nissan,Mitsubishi,Land Rover,Toyota,or any other manufacturer?

Do a bit of research,and find out the facts.

Just more BS.

[grey_ghost]

I noticed a new user on Instagram “newdefendernews”... I wonder who is behind it..?

[DiscoMick]

I've actually driven an iLoad and it was pretty average. The engine was gutless and had to be towed uphills, brakes were spongy, the body boomed and needed insulation and the seats were hard. It also took me a long time to find the jack, which was pretty ordinary to use, when it got a flat tyre (not its fault).
But hey, no vehicle is perfect.

[Zeros]

What’s Instagram?

[scarry]

I've actually driven an iLoad and it was pretty average. The engine was gutless and had to be towed uphills, brakes were spongy, the body boomed and needed insulation and the seats were hard. It also took me a long time to find the jack, which was pretty ordinary to use, when it got a flat tyre (not its fault).
But hey, no vehicle is perfect.

Just wait until you get to drive a late model Hi Ace,by reports they are worse[biggrin]

But they do have front factory 'recovery points',that work extremely well if ever needed.

And yes we did get one badly bogged one day,it was fully loaded,the D2a only just managed to pull it out.

Better actually than the factory fitted recovery points on the LR product that was discontinued in 2016:Rolling:

But hey,correct, no vehicle is perfect,they are all actually a compromise.

EDIT...To save someone asking,those recovery points are 20mm eye bolts with extended threaded sections that screw into the front of each chassis rail.They don't have a rating on them,but we snatched off them once,and the van was loaded,with no issue at all.

[grey_ghost]

One thing that I have often wondered - are new vehicles too complicated because of the manufacturers, their requirement to meet emission and safety standards or a combination of both?

[blackrangie]

:Rolling::Rolling:

I think i will just leave the above here so others have twice the chance to laugh at it.

All your doing is going around in circles,and tripping over yourself on your travels.....[bighmmm]

Oh,and when does a factory fitted raised air intake suddenly become a waterproof snorkel?

Whether fitted by Nissan,Mitsubishi,Land Rover,Toyota,or any other manufacturer?

Do a bit of research,and find out the facts.

Just more BS.

Notice how i dont continuosly starting responses with laughes in response, lets keep discussion here respectful however amusing you find it.

The Factory yota "snorkels" are a joke (call them raised air intakes if you like) why would toyota go to all the effort of designing a raised air intake that looks exactly like a snorkel knowing full well that these 4x4s will be used for river crossings all over AU, Same goes for the Alt and the Starter as already mentioned (or is the Alt a battery helper when working and one must run 4x solar panels also to be reliable or is the starter just there as a luxury if a hill isn't avail to start your car).

The snorkel issue can be spun however liked but one things for sure i don't know anyone that has fitted a snorkel just to raise the air intake just to avoid dust and not water.

It is a commonly known fact that the factory yota snorkel/raised intake/tube coming off engine/dust snorkel with ram or whatever one wants to call it, is worthless for all purposes other than on road driving(there is no way that's what Toyota buyers expect when forking out on a new rig), It lets water and dust in, It is a potential showstopper if not fully siliconed up or replaced with a high quality safari (or similar) unit.
I would love to hear from Any yota buyer that was told when purchasing that the snorkel is fake and onroad suitable only, i believe they are officially known as "dust snorkels".

Here are some Yota fans chatting about it

Waterproofing snorkel IDEAS - Australian 4WD Action | Forum (http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php't=155391)

V8 cruiser snorkel - replace the head or the whole snorkel? - Australian 4WD Action | Forum (http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php't=150109)

sikaflexing factory snorkel/ how long does this last - Australian 4WD Action | Forum (http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=139067#p1681141)

Calling what I have written b* is not really in keeping with AULRO bud, If you disagree with anything anyone writes, thats not a problem, just point it out with facts, I for one am happy to be shown when I'm incorrect, all part of learning which never stops.

One things for sure I can see plain as day so far as far as facts are concerned that the 79 series has many more potential showstoppers from the factory that need to be addressed than a late model defender before doing a big lap. Not that its a competition. To be fair I would agree that the toyota has a much better overall quality of build from the factory compared to a late defender.

[blackrangie]

One thing that I have often wondered - are new vehicles too complicated because of the manufacturers, their requirement to meet emission and safety standards or a combination of both?I would say both plus a need to always have more features and capability than the next guy.
I believe as far as the defender is concerned safety and emissions where the largest factors in making the decision to move to a more complex vehicle.

[blackrangie]

But hey,correct, no vehicle is perfect,they are all actually a compromise.

Agreed

[blackrangie]

I noticed a new user on Instagram “newdefendernews”... I wonder who is behind it..?I doubt JLR, got a screenshot? I've been clean from knowing everything my friends do before I talk to them for over a year now.

[rar110]

Is that the pic with vehicle covered partly?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190128/2b194f35b39339e9b9556e30f239b9b4.jpg

[scarry]

Notice how i dont continuosly starting responses with laughes in response, lets keep discussion here respectful however amusing you find it.

The Factory yota "snorkels" are a joke (call them raised air intakes if you like) why would toyota go to all the effort of designing a raised air intake that looks exactly like a snorkel knowing full well that these 4x4s will be used for river crossings all over AU, Same goes for the Alt and the Starter as already mentioned (or is the Alt a battery helper when working and one must run 4x solar panels also to be reliable or is the starter just there as a luxury if a hill isn't avail to start your car).

The snorkel issue can be spun however liked but one things for sure i don't know anyone that has fitted a snorkel just to raise the air intake just to avoid dust and not water.

It is a commonly known fact that the factory yota snorkel/raised intake/tube coming off engine/dust snorkel with ram or whatever one wants to call it, is worthless for all purposes other than on road driving(there is no way that's what Toyota buyers expect when forking out on a new rig), It lets water and dust in, It is a potential showstopper if not fully siliconed up or replaced with a high quality safari (or similar) unit.
I would love to hear from Any yota buyer that was told when purchasing that the snorkel is fake and onroad suitable only, i believe they are officially known as "dust snorkels".

Here are some Yota fans chatting about it

Waterproofing snorkel IDEAS - Australian 4WD Action | Forum (http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php't=155391)

V8 cruiser snorkel - replace the head or the whole snorkel? - Australian 4WD Action | Forum (http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php't=150109)

sikaflexing factory snorkel/ how long does this last - Australian 4WD Action | Forum (http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=139067#p1681141)

Calling what I have written b* is not really in keeping with AULRO bud, If you disagree with anything anyone writes, thats not a problem, just point it out with facts, I for one am happy to be shown when I'm incorrect, all part of learning which never stops.

One things for sure I can see plain as day so far as far as facts are concerned that the 79 series has many more potential showstoppers from the factory that need to be addressed than a late model defender before doing a big lap. Not that its a competition. To be fair I would agree that the toyota has a much better overall quality of build from the factory compared to a late defender.

No laughs as per your request,but you are still going around in circles,amusing[biggrin]

Obviously you didn't read my last post,i will repeat.

Any factory fitted raised air intake fitted to a Nissan,Mitsubishi,Toyota,Ranger,or Land Rover is just that.Whether owners know this or not,who knows?None are waterproofed,NONE.

What owners expect,who knows?If you go through posts/threads on here,you will find there are some on this issue,owners found out after they had them fitted.Mainly D3/4 owners.I cant remember if they are any on Defenders.

I haven't got time to find the links for you.

In fact,if any buyer had a good look at the specs for a late model 70 series,they would see that it has a wading depth of 700mm,so the factory fitted raised air intake/snorkle is clearly not waterproof.If owners don't read the vehicle manual,good luck to them.

As for your last sentence,correct,there is just no comparison.Not only have i had a lot to do with the Puma in my sig,but i know quite a few that have late model 70 series,and have driven several.

The big advantage of the Deefer is its long travel coil suspension.It is debatable which engine is better,depends what your needs are,they are like chalk and cheese to drive.

As for showstoppers,we are going to have to agree to disagree.

There are many on here about the Puma,for numerous different reasons,many we have already talked about,and others including clutches,turbo hoses rubbing through,etc.

In fact the guys at MR auto were telling me the other day,LR are up to their 5th change to the clutch kit,for the Puma.

Anyway,all healthy comparisons,if we all agreed on the same thing,the place would be boring.[biggrin]

Umm,quick search,found one,have a look at this,and the links in some of the posts.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/117663-raised-air-intake-disco-3-a.html?117663=#post1375380

As one poster says " It blows my mind that it would not be water proof. You would think LR would make it properly for the money it cost!"

[SBD4]

Looks like it... it's getting close!

Is that the pic with vehicle covered partly?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190128/2b194f35b39339e9b9556e30f239b9b4.jpg

[blackrangie]

Is that the pic with vehicle covered partly?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190128/2b194f35b39339e9b9556e30f239b9b4.jpgNot sure what that is!

[blackrangie]

No laughs as per your request,but you are still going around in circles,amusing[biggrin]

Obviously you didn't read my last post,i will repeat.

Any factory fitted raised air intake fitted to a Nissan,Mitsubishi,Toyota,Ranger,or Land Rover is just that.Whether owners know this or not,who knows?None are waterproofed,NONE.

What owners expect,who knows?If you go through posts/threads on here,you will find there are some on this issue,owners found out after they had them fitted.Mainly D3/4 owners.I cant remember if they are any on Defenders.

I haven't got time to find the links for you.

In fact,if any buyer had a good look at the specs for a late model 70 series,they would see that it has a wading depth of 700mm,so the factory fitted raised air intake/snorkle is clearly not waterproof.If owners don't read the vehicle manual,good luck to them.

As for your last sentence,correct,there is just no comparison.Not only have i had a lot to do with the Puma in my sig,but i know quite a few that have late model 70 series,and have driven several.

The big advantage of the Deefer is its long travel coil suspension.It is debatable which engine is better,depends what your needs are,they are like chalk and cheese to drive.

As for showstoppers,we are going to have to agree to disagree.

There are many on here about the Puma,for numerous different reasons,many we have already talked about,and others including clutches,turbo hoses rubbing through,etc.

In fact the guys at MR auto were telling me the other day,LR are up to their 5th change to the clutch kit,for the Puma.

Anyway,all healthy comparisons,if we all agreed on the same thing,the place would be boring.[biggrin]

Umm,quick search,found one,have a look at this,and the links in some of the posts.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/117663-raised-air-intake-disco-3-a.html?117663=#post1375380

As one poster says " It blows my mind that it would not be water proof. You would think LR would make it properly for the money it cost!"LandCruiser 70 | Still Powerful, Still Indestructible | Toyota Australia (https://www.toyota.com.au/main/landcruiser-70)

If i drove my cruiser through a river crossing and got water in via airbox or snorkel (showstopper) toyota would be liable for a new engine due to false advertising 100% as per pic and link.

79 series are different as the snorkel is a factory part of the car, not an optional extra, i would say 90% of buyers would be none the wiser unless they read it on a forum or heard it from a mate like I did. Nobody would go and measure the airbox to see if its 700mm from the ground.

You would assume a factory fitted snorkel would cover you to a reasonable depth especially if it is advertised as such.

Yes of course other brands snorkels that are optional extras are sometimes also rubbish but this was not the point.

The point was that the 79s have multiple fundamental flaws (around 5 last count as per previous posts) from the factory which can, if not addressed, lead to trip ending scenarios just like any other 4x4, including Defenders.

When people say a 79 series are more reliable than a defender, I say back yes maybe between work sites on the bitumen.

When both 70 series and fenda drivers address their factory flaws, its game on.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190128/d5f49637f3f8f8f5e042e4093eae2c86.jpg

[grey_ghost]

I doubt JLR, got a screenshot? I've been clean from knowing everything my friends do before I talk to them for over a year now.

Here is the instagram user - can't be LR themselves, it must just be an enthusiast:

https://i.imgur.com/7Uwiwgb.png

And while I am at it - I also spotted this image:

https://i.imgur.com/nIRUZFl.png

Cheers,
GG.

[blackrangie]

Here is the instagram user - can't be LR themselves, it must just be an enthusiast:

https://i.imgur.com/7Uwiwgb.png

And while I am at it - I also spotted this image:

https://i.imgur.com/nIRUZFl.png

Cheers,
GG.Yeah legit corporate accounts usually dont follow people.

Hm somewhere between that brown one and autocar renders but more aggressive style is my guess

[weeds]

If I was in a position to choose between the last of the defenders and a 70series to pack up and do a lap it’d be a 70 I reckon.

Based mostly on feedback from an ex AULRO member that had an 06 defender which meant say is nearly the best defender to purchase.

I have a 2000 defender and a 2014 hi-lux....the hi-lux has done 160k and the defender 100k....the hi-lux hasn’t had a spanner on it, the defer on the other hand........pretty sure I know why Land Rover will never compete with the big players going forward.

Oh my defer is a keeper.....now that’s it’s set up. In hindsight I should have shelled out a few more and went with a troopie

[Zeros]

If I was in a position to choose between the last of the defenders and a 70series to pack up and do a lap it’d be a 70 I reckon.

Based mostly on feedback from an ex AULRO member that had an 06 defender which meant say is nearly the best defender to purchase.

I have a 2000 defender and a 2014 hi-lux....the hi-lux has done 160k and the defender 100k....the hi-lux hasn’t had a spanner on it, the defer on the other hand........pretty sure I know why Land Rover will never compete with the big players going forward.

Oh my defer is a keeper.....now that’s it’s set up. In hindsight I should have shelled out a few more and went with a troopie

A 2000 model troopie? Straight six guzzler tin can.

- You’d be using twice the fuel 18-22L / 100km
- The engine mounts,gearbox and diffs were very susceptible to reality g
- Rough rear horse and cart springs
- Only part time 4x4.
- No side door access without an ugly and expensive third door mod.
- Very poor seats and noiser inside.
...and your poptop conversion would look terrible compared to the excellence of Mulgo’s Defender conversion.

[DiscoMick]

My Defer is basically standard with some accessories, has had the clutch replaced, has done 130,000 Ks and will be doing the big lap later this year. And it only uses 10.5 l/100 kms. And it only cost $36,000. Why would I buy a 70 series?

[weeds]

A 2000 model troopie? Straight six guzzler tin can.

- You’d be using twice the fuel 18-22L / 100km
- The engine mounts,gearbox and diffs were very susceptible to reality g
- Rough rear horse and cart springs
- Only part time 4x4.
- No side door access without an ugly and expensive third door mod.
- Very poor seats and noiser inside.
...and your poptop conversion would look terrible compared to the excellence of Mulgo’s Defender conversion.

Yawn.......think I’ve heard it all before.

If you read my post I said I would have shelled out some more dollars........oh and the defer is a keeper, although if I find a few spare dollars

My current defer only has one door per side, no different to a troopie and the troopie has way better rear access

Doubt a cruiser would be noiser than mine.

Wouldn’t say the defer seats are great...although they seem to do the job

Mulgo does pop top conversions as well which I believe is excellent....remove the blinkers and click on it one day

Fuel doesn’t overly worry me....troopie comes standard with more than double the fuel capacity

Part time v full time....din’t bother me when I had a 40 series or my old 80’s era hi-lux or my current hi-lux.

I’ve ditched the suspension in the defer as it didn’t suit....yet don’t even run coils anymore , I reckon there is a suspension setup that would suit a troopie and me

I’ll be able to compare a number of troopie poptops to mine in the coming months, good chance I will get to drive a troopie.

I guess I choose to drive what suits me....sorry if it bothers you, enjoy you defers.

[weeds]

My Defer is basically standard with some accessories, has had the clutch replaced, has done 130,000 Ks and will be doing the big lap later this year. And it only uses 10.5 l/100 kms. And it only cost $36,000. Why would I buy a 70 series?

Maybe......because they don’t interest you??

[scarry]

A 2000 model troopie? Straight six guzzler tin can.

- You’d be using twice the fuel 18-22L / 100km
- The engine mounts,gearbox and diffs were very susceptible to reality g
- Rough rear horse and cart springs
- Only part time 4x4.
- No side door access without an ugly and expensive third door mod.
- Very poor seats and noiser inside.
...and your poptop conversion would look terrible compared to the excellence of Mulgo’s Defender conversion.

:zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::Thump:

Oh well,here we go again[bighmmm]

And just remember,Weeds,they have that many showstopping issues,you will need a sat phone to call for help if you ever go off road.And it won’t be long before you have the local towie on speed dial

Oh,and the raised air intake isn’t waterproof,just in case you didn’t know.[bigrolf]

Although the wading depth is 700 mm,which is 200 mm deeper than you have been used to with the deefer.

[weeds]

:zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::Thump:

Oh well,here we go again[bighmmm]

And just remember,Weeds,they have that many showstopping issues,you will need a sat phone to call for help if you ever go off road.And it won’t be long before you have the local towie on speed dial

Oh,and the raised air intake isn’t waterproof,just in case you didn’t know.[bigrolf]

Although the wading depth is 700 mm,which is 200 mm deeper than you have been used to with the deefer.

Just got back from a run around Tamworth.....must have spotted 20+ 70 series, all seemed to be motoring along quite well.

[Vern]

I've actually driven an iLoad and it was pretty average. The engine was gutless and had to be towed uphills, brakes were spongy, the body boomed and needed insulation and the seats were hard. It also took me a long time to find the jack, which was pretty ordinary to use, when it got a flat tyre (not its fault).
But hey, no vehicle is perfect.Guessing it was a petrol one. The turbo diesel is a little rocket

[rar110]

Just got back from a run around Tamworth.....must have spotted 20+ 70 series, all seemed to be motoring along quite well.

Obviously patched up by one of the many dealers in cooee. Or not.

[weeds]

Obviously patched up by one of the many dealers in cooee. Or not.

Haven’t spotted one defer yet.

[scarry]

Obviously patched up by one of the many dealers in cooee. Or not.

At least there are dealers in regional areas.....[biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

Guessing it was a petrol one. The turbo diesel is a little rocketYes, petrol rental.

[rar110]

...

[rar110]

Haven’t spotted one defer yet.

Very outnumbered on 4wds regoed. But that horse bolted in the 1970s.

[weeds]

Very outnumbered on 4wds regoed. But that horse bolted in the 1970s.

Having a beer and a feed with an AULRO local.....and this was our view from our table.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190129/343ae13173bf71fd38c48e353d1169f7.jpg

[manic]

Having a beer and a feed with an AULRO local.....and this was our view from our table.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190129/343ae13173bf71fd38c48e353d1169f7.jpgLooks like its about to break in two

[scarry]

Having a beer and a feed with an AULRO local.....and this was our view from our table.

It just needs the 4" exhaust,then its all sorted for the big lap[bigrolf]

[rar110]

...
Another misconceived reply.

[weeds]

It just needs the 4" exhaust,then its all sorted for the big lap[bigrolf]

I did notice when they drove off it’s still got the standard exhaust

[scarry]

I did notice when they drove off it’s still got the standard exhaust

What?

Amazing,it actually 'drove' off without assistance?:eek2:

[weeds]

What?

Amazing,it actually 'drove' off without assistance?:eek2:

No tilt tray for as far as I could see.

[Zeros]

I
Yawn.......think I’ve heard it all before.

If you read my post I said I would have shelled out some more dollars........oh and the defer is a keeper, although if I find a few spare dollars

My current defer only has one door per side, no different to a troopie and the troopie has way better rear access

Doubt a cruiser would be noiser than mine.

Wouldn’t say the defer seats are great...although they seem to do the job

Mulgo does pop top conversions as well which I believe is excellent....remove the blinkers and click on it one day

Fuel doesn’t overly worry me....troopie comes standard with more than double the fuel capacity

Part time v full time....din’t bother me when I had a 40 series or my old 80’s era hi-lux or my current hi-lux.

I’ve ditched the suspension in the defer as it didn’t suit....yet don’t even run coils anymore , I reckon there is a suspension setup that would suit a troopie and me

I’ll be able to compare a number of troopie poptops to mine in the coming months, good chance I will get to drive a troopie.

I guess I choose to drive what suits me....sorry if it bothers you, enjoy you defers.

It doesn’t bother me at all Weeds. What you do is entirely up to you. My opinion is just that, my opinion. Just trying to be helpful. ...But it seems to really bother you!

...Yawn? We’e all heard all the arguments before ...both ways. In fact we hear the PRO Tojo argument a hell of a lot more! It’s even more predictable. LOL

Best wishes man. Get a Tojo if it suits you better. Or stick with your Defender if you love it. All good.

[blackrangie]

Haven’t spotted one defer yet.That's because they are all offroad doing big laps, not driving to get their showstoppers rectified. [emoji6][emoji1787]

[blackrangie]

At least there are dealers in regional areas.....[biggrin]Because they need them [emoji8]

[blackrangie]

Looks like its about to break in twoImagine that on a hill, no thanks.

[blackrangie]

:zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::Thump:

Oh well,here we go again[bighmmm]

And just remember,Weeds,they have that many showstopping issues,you will need a sat phone to call for help if you ever go off road.And it won’t be long before you have the local towie on speed dial

Oh,and the raised air intake isn’t waterproof,just in case you didn’t know.[bigrolf]

Although the wading depth is 700 mm,which is 200 mm deeper than you have been used to with the deefer.

Most 79series owners would expect a snorkel to be a snorkel for water as per marketing (If you do a decent silty or muddy crossing even at 700mm the wave generally would come over bonnet in the bonnet vent, leaving muddy water in valley and eventually wrecking your starter. Water wave would also go over snorkel and suck water in leading to potential engine damage.

500mm of the same would ruin the diff height alt, even if just a muddy road. Toyota should update to "700mm Wading depth possible" *300mm advised to avoid damage.

[blackrangie]

What?

Amazing,it actually 'drove' off without assistance?:eek2:Im guessing was on the blacktop [emoji6]

[Zeros]

Haven’t spotted one defer yet.

That’s right, you’ll hardly see and Defenders across the majority of the continent. It’s Toyota country.

[blackrangie]

That’s right, you’ll hardly see and Defenders across the majority of the continent. It’s Toyota country.Actually, there are many places where landrovers are more popular than any other vehicle and for good reason.
"You'll hardly see" is a stretch, there are 1000s of owners on here that tour with them all over the country, not just going from worksite to worksite.
Toyota has great marketing with an emphasis on reliability.
However of late even hardcore toyota fans are beginning to wake up with all the fundamental flaws of the 79 series the factory continues to ignore, then there's the "unbreakable" hilux breaking down all over the country, getting more recalls than ever, lawsuits pending re: DPF decacle.

Not saying any car is better than another and landrover have their issues too. just pointing out than toyotas have issues just like any other brand. Is a built 79 an overall better 4x4 then a late fender, i don't think so from the facts, however beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and that has to be respected.

[donh54]

Is that the pic with vehicle covered partly?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190128/2b194f35b39339e9b9556e30f239b9b4.jpgThat must be the "Saudi Wives" model!!!

[rar110]

A little revealing. The rear end is not fully covered.

[scarry]

If I was in a position to choose between the last of the defenders and a 70series to pack up and do a lap it’d be a 70 I reckon.

Based mostly on feedback from an ex AULRO member that had an 06 defender which meant say is nearly the best defender to purchase.

I have a 2000 defender and a 2014 hi-lux....the hi-lux has done 160k and the defender 100k....the hi-lux hasn’t had a spanner on it, the defer on the other hand........pretty sure I know why Land Rover will never compete with the big players going forward.

Oh my defer is a keeper.....now that’s it’s set up. In hindsight I should have shelled out a few more and went with a troopie

That is the exact reason people buy them,from mainly their own experiences of the brand.

Not all the advertising hype,there are many on here that own them or have them as company vehicles and say the same.

As i have said as well,i have had many(not just a couple) as someone said,of work vehicles,millions of K's,and my own experience is the reason i would go with them.I don't even look at the companies advertising hype,it doesn't interest me one iota.

[grey_ghost]

Well I myself am eagerly awaiting the new Defender although I strongly suspect that I won’t be able to afford one.. [emoji26]

[LRJim]

Well I myself am eagerly awaiting the new Defender although I strongly suspect that I won’t be able to afford one.. [emoji26]Sell the fleet 🤣🤣
Better yet the horses!

[grey_ghost]

Mate you are trying to get me killed via SWMBO !!!

[grey_ghost]

And I love driving the 101, FFR, D1, 4 Door, S2, S2...

[auslizard]

Mate you are trying to get me killed via SWMBO !!!

Horses or the Land Rovers? If you have more horses than Land Rovers that must be quite a large patch of land you have there :)

[grey_ghost]

10 Land Rovers, 2 horses.... I am in front by a long way [emoji1303]

[LRJim]

10 Land Rovers, 2 horses.... I am in front by a long way [emoji1303]Wanna make it 4 horses and 9 land rovers?
Could even throw in a goat if you like🤣

[grey_ghost]

[emoji848]

[blackrangie]

Well I myself am eagerly awaiting the new Defender although I strongly suspect that I won’t be able to afford one.. [emoji26]Hopefully base model comes in under the D5

[ezyrama]

Just read in latest LRM I have that a "spokesperson" from JLR confirmed that the spy shots from a few months ago (attached) are of the new Defender.
(Starting price, low 40k's GBP, $73.4k AUD. from a previous story)

[scarry]

Just read in latest LRM I have that a "spokesperson" from JLR confirmed that the spy shots from a few months ago (attached) are of the new Defender.
(Starting price, low 40k's GBP, $73.4k AUD. from a previous story)

That’s more than a D5 starting price,so they say.

I knew it wouldn’t be cheap.

All smoke and mirrors I am sure.

Let’s wait for some facts[biggrin]

[ezyrama]

That’s more than a D5 starting price,so they say.

All smoke and mirrors I am sure.

Let’s wait for some facts[biggrin]

Probably, but it will be interesting if it does come out like a D4

[weeds]

If it doesn’t come with round headlight they cannot possibly call it a defender....I don’t get the link between series and defenders than alone the quantum leap now.

[scarry]

If it doesn’t come with round headlight they cannot possibly call it a defender....I don’t get the link between series and defenders than alone the quantum leap now.

I can't fathom how an Epoke ever became a RR.

Thats LR's problem,they keep shifting their vehicles place in the market,into different classes.
The Discovery is a good example.Once a family touring wagon,now its virtually a RR.

As i have said before,the high selling brands keep their vehicle models in the same place in the market and have for years.
Their sales speak for themselves.

[blackrangie]

If it doesn’t come with round headlight they cannot possibly call it a defender....I don’t get the link between series and defenders than alone the quantum leap now.One of the gentlemen on that won't be retro thread or here somewhere mentioned his dealer confirmed round headlights and middle front seat [emoji41]

[cjc_td5]

One of the gentlemen on that won't be retro thread or here somewhere mentioned his dealer confirmed round headlights and middle front seat [emoji41]Gentleman, hahahahaha. Thanks, [emoji106]

[blackrangie]

Gentleman, hahahahaha. Thanks, [emoji106]Ahh haha here it is.


My local LR dealer, who had seen the new model some months ago, said that it had a centre dicky seat in the front. He said it looked and worked great.
He also said it had round headlights unlike the rest of the LR range...
Cheers,

[ezyrama]

I can't fathom how an Epoke ever became a RR.

Thats LR's problem,they keep shifting their vehicles place in the market,into different classes.
The Discovery is a good example.Once a family touring wagon,now its virtually a RR.

As i have said before,the high selling brands keep their vehicle models in the same place in the market and have for years.
Their sales speak for themselves.

I read a story a while ago that allegedly came from a source within LR that stated, they did some market research and found that if they attach the RR name to the epoke, that would allow them to charge a 15% premium over not utilising the RR name.

[ezyrama]

Just saw this in the latest Top Gear mag. Almost a RR,Disco,Epoke,Velar front end. sorry for the pic quality, its off the computator

[101RRS]

Looks like the original design being touted a few years back.

[blackrangie]

Just saw this in the latest Top Gear mag. Almost a RR,Disco,Epoke,Velar front end. sorry for the pic quality, its off the computatorIts an artists impression and imo a very poor one
Round headlights, 3 front seats?
Pretty sure bonnet would have more bulge too.

[ezyrama]

Thats what I thought, DC100 Concept with a RR headlight set up.

[Pickles2]

Just saw this in the latest Top Gear mag. Almost a RR,Disco,Epoke,Velar front end. sorry for the pic quality, its off the computator.

I saw that, it's a fair way different from the DC100 concept IMHO, but it's probably the most likable "guestimate" that I've seen to date.
I know appearance is only one thing, but it means a lot to some, inside & out, but again IMHO, if the "new" Defender resembles many of the images seen to date, I reckon values of the "öld" Defender, particularly Pumas, will be "firm" to say the least,...IMHO of course.
Pickles.

[blackrangie]

This is prob closer imo [emoji7]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/ab542645528c633ef0ab16ed469c1ba3.jpg

[trout1105]

This is prob closer imo [emoji7]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/ab542645528c633ef0ab16ed469c1ba3.jpg

The soccer moms and the latte sipping crew will love it, Serious 4wd enthusiasts Not so much[bigwhistle]

[Zeros]

This is prob closer imo [emoji7]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/ab542645528c633ef0ab16ed469c1ba3.jpg

Seriously? That’s just a D5 with a Defender badge.

[trout1105]

Seriously? That’s just a D5 with a Defender badge.

Exactly

[blackrangie]

The soccer moms and the latte sipping crew will love it, Serious 4wd enthusiasts Not so much[bigwhistle]I prefer cappuccino, and i must be a soccer mum too haha.

Cant see any probs with serious 4wding there, looks better more 4wd suitable than a y62, d5, 200 when they pop out of the factory haha. I think we are forgetting how capachino ready just about every family 4x4 is when it leaves the factory, people have to drop thier new 200 off at arb for 25k worth of gear before pickup.

With the pic i see concealed winch or an arb bar and off ya go, tyres and wheels look better on mules so ignored that.

I said it was closer that that ugly pic posted above not exactly what its going to be, so relax [emoji8]

[blackrangie]

Seriously? That’s just a D5 with a Defender badge.Pretty different i think, found a d5 in same colour for ya, body is waay different, sills are much higher, height is different, bumbers different, roofs different, bonnets different, side panels different, approach, rampover and departure different, lights, style, etc.

People that are wanting a carbon copy of current defender, just spend 25k restoring what you've got.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/a71604ade3c4f6fff31d9ae85ced8af0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/134f58395d1a97dbf95d244652d6492a.jpg

[trout1105]

I prefer cappuccino, and i must be a soccer mum too haha.

Can see any probs with serious 4wding there, looks better more 4wd suitable than a y62, d5, 200 when they pop out of the factory haha. I think we are forgetting how capachino ready just about every family 4x4 is when it leaves the factory, people have to drop thier new 200 off at arb for 25k worth of gear before pickup.

With the pic i see concealed winch or an arb bar and off ya go, tyres and wheels look better on mules so ignored that.

I said it was closer that that ugly pic posted above not exactly what its going to be, so relax [emoji8]

I imagine that the new Defender will be priced similar to the D5's So you could buy a 79 series AND get 25K worth of mods done on it for about the same price.
I do like the Landrover products But if I was going to spend $80K-$90K on a new truck I would go with the well proven and reliable 79 series because they are a seriously tough and capable truck.
The new Defender will be an all new design that hasn't proved itself yet in Australian conditions, It will also undoubtedly come with all the Euro emission control nightmares, no fixed axles or a proper chassis.
I am keen to see what eventually rolls out of the Landrover factory IF/When the new Defender finally sees daylight But I won't be trading my 79 series in anytime soon.

[Pickles2]

This is prob closer imo [emoji7]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/ab542645528c633ef0ab16ed469c1ba3.jpg
I don't like that one, I think the Top Gear "image", in which I can see a bit of the "old" Defender,is a fair way different to that?
Pickles.

[Zeros]

Pretty different i think, found a d5 in same colour for ya, body is waay different, sills are much higher, height is different, bumbers different, roofs different, bonnets different, side panels different, approach, rampover and departure different, lights, style, etc.

People that are wanting a carbon copy of current defender, just spend 25k restoring what you've got.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/a71604ade3c4f6fff31d9ae85ced8af0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/134f58395d1a97dbf95d244652d6492a.jpg

...:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling: are you havin a laugh?

[cjc_td5]

This is prob closer imo [emoji7]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/ab542645528c633ef0ab16ed469c1ba3.jpgIt'll be better styled than that. Parallel hip and roof lines like the green examples earlier and from the mules, I think the hip line will be relatively low to maximise window area.

[blackrangie]

I imagine that the new Defender will be priced similar to the D5's So you could buy a 79 series AND get 25K worth of mods done on it for about the same price.
I do like the Landrover products But if I was going to spend $80K-$90K on a new truck I would go with the well proven and reliable 79 series because they are a seriously tough and capable truck.
The new Defender will be an all new design that hasn't proved itself yet in Australian conditions, It will also undoubtedly come with all the Euro emission control nightmares, no fixed axles or a proper chassis.
I am keen to see what eventually rolls out of the Landrover factory IF/When the new Defender finally sees daylight But I won't be trading my 79 series in anytime soon.


D5s start under 80k, serious 4wdrs would want base model.
Infact middle of the range atm for 78.8k, insane value
Discovery Offer (http://www.purnell.landrover.com.au/latest-offers/discovery-offer)

79 gxl dual cabs utes range from 70-100k dont they, then people spend 25-50k on canopys, fixes and mods.

Pretty much in same ballpark

One is a do anything 4x4 the other is designed to go from worksite to worksite.

Too very different 4x4s, both good in there own way.

Imo the defender wont be targeted at 79s directly, it will be targeted at people that want a durable and capable do anything vehicle, if they release a ute version which is rumoured maybe that will be work suitable and they will Target that market as well.

We have been through all this before on the won't be retro thread

[blackrangie]

It'll be better styled than that. Parallel hip and roof lines like the green examples earlier and from the mules, I think the hip line will be relatively low to maximise window area.Good point,Maybe this one pictured is more like a sport version with the dropped back roof

[blackrangie]

...:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling: are you havin a laugh?Not in the slightest, but you quite obviously seem to be [emoji23]

[blackrangie]

I don't like that one, I think the Top Gear "image", in which I can see a bit of the "old" Defender,is a fair way different to that?
Pickles.Yeah this could be sport version, old mate pointed out dropped roof at rear, dont mind its looks, bit of barwork and it would be very tough, nice combination of modern yet still squarish.

[scarry]

It'll be better styled than that. Parallel hip and roof lines like the green examples earlier and from the mules, I think the hip line will be relatively low to maximise window area.

Which the mules did not have.
A D4 has a lower hip line than those previous mule shots,by quite a margin.

The small glass area is one of the reasons i don't like the LC200.
The 70 series vehicles have a much larger glass area and lower hip line,actually similar to a D1.

[scarry]

Some relative sent me this.

Actually doesn't look too bad,a bit longer and i could use it for work[thumbsupbig]

Nice high profile tyres,which is a good start.

But quite a high hip line.

Surely this has to be close to the real deal.


https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16110202/640/16110202.jpg (https://picturepush.com/public/16110202)

[cjc_td5]

Some relative sent me this.

Actually doesn't look too bad,a bit longer and i could use it for work[thumbsupbig]

Nice high profile tyres,which is a good start.

But quite a high hip line.

Surely this has to be close to the real deal.


https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16110202/640/16110202.jpg (https://picturepush.com/public/16110202)

I think the mouldings on the mules shield much deeper windows than visible. The door handle on the pic you have is placed right at the top of the door near the sill, so my yellow lines could be moved even further down from what I have shown...
I get that the manufacturers have to balance deep windows giving better visibility vs maintaining side impact protection.

148828

Cheers,
C

[Pickles2]

Some relative sent me this.

Actually doesn't look too bad,a bit longer and i could use it for work[thumbsupbig]

Nice high profile tyres,which is a good start.

But quite a high hip line.

Surely this has to be close to the real deal.


https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16110202/640/16110202.jpg (https://picturepush.com/public/16110202)
Don't like that either, .... put a sign on the side, & it'd look like an old bread van.
I think that the new Defender will be much "squarer", front & rear.
Pickles.

[trout1105]

D5s start under 80k, serious 4wdrs would want base model.
Infact middle of the range atm for 78.8k, insane value
Discovery Offer (http://www.purnell.landrover.com.au/latest-offers/discovery-offer)

79 gxl dual cabs utes range from 70-100k dont they, then people spend 25-50k on canopys, fixes and mods.

Pretty much in same ballpark

One is a do anything 4x4 the other is designed to go from worksite to worksite.

Too very different 4x4s, both good in there own way.

Imo the defender wont be targeted at 79s directly, it will be targeted at people that want a durable and capable do anything vehicle, if they release a ute version which is rumoured maybe that will be work suitable and they will Target that market as well.

We have been through all this before on the won't be retro thread

Base model Workmates start at $63K-$65K and $82k for the GXL twincab, my personal preference is the Workmate range with less tech and $20k cheaper for basically the same truck.
Lets wait and see if Landrover can produce a Better, Stronger, More useful, and a more powerful 4wd Ute than Toyota has with the new defender as yet another 4WD wagon release is about as exciting as cutting your toenails.
A single cab or dual cab ute is by far the most versatile configuration as far as remote touring, touring in general. farming and for the mining game is concerned So
personally if the new Defender doesn't include a Ute in its range it will be pointless.


My D2a is a Good touring wagon But not a Great tourer and just about Any other make of 4WD UTE is a Far better option for carting and more importantly accessing all the crap you need to cart around with you.

Like I Said lets wait and see what the new Defender is made up like before we start extolling its strengths and virtues Because all it has going for it so far is the Name and the Heritage of the series and the Defenders of the past, This will be a completely different Beast.

[scarry]

Don't like that either, .... put a sign on the side, & it'd look like an old bread van.
I think that the new Defender will be much "squarer", front & rear.
Pickles.

Windows in the back,four doors,longer wheel base, and its a wagon.

Windows in the rear of the one in the pic and it goes from a bread van to a 90[thumbsupbig]

[blackrangie]

Don't like that either, .... put a sign on the side, & it'd look like an old bread van.
I think that the new Defender will be much "squarer", front & rear.
Pickles.Looks like a daym capable bread van [emoji23]

[Zeros]

Some relative sent me this.

Actually doesn't look too bad,a bit longer and i could use it for work[thumbsupbig]

Nice high profile tyres,which is a good start.

But quite a high hip line.

Surely this has to be close to the real deal.


https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16110202/640/16110202.jpg (https://picturepush.com/public/16110202)

Thats a D5 too

[blackrangie]

Thats a D5 tooThat's because they're probably used one for the Photoshop haha.

Maybe a lifted more hardcore,swb, bobtailed d5 [emoji8]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190228/a1a2e59acdc1b969e15780a92e0db355.jpg

[ramblingboy42]

some here seem to think the y62 isnt much good straight from the showroom.

well I can tell you that if you can stay with a y62 anywhere , I mean anywhere you will be doing very , very well.

you may have to visit the fuel pump before it does too.

and save yourself $20-30,000 driveaway

[trout1105]

some here seem to think the y62 isnt much good straight from the showroom.

well I can tell you that if you can stay with a y62 anywhUteere , I mean anywhere you will be doing very , very well.

you may have to visit the fuel pump before it does too.

and save yourself $20-30,000 driveaway

the y62's are a bloody good wagon streight out of the box and are Very capable offf road and have prooved themselves to be reliable as well But they are just another 4WD wagon.
and NOT a Ute unfortunately.

[ramblingboy42]

yeah I get the point you are making.

I don't think Land Rover are going to pull it off..

If they do it will be cost prohibitive.....that why I never bought a Defender in the past

[trout1105]

yeah I get the point you are making.

I don't think Land Rover are going to pull it off..

If they do it will be cost prohibitive.....that why I never bought a Defender in the past

The older disco's (D1, D2 and D3) are a great buy at the moment if you want a good capable 4WD wagon as far a Bang for Buck goes, Defenders Not so much.
Most 4WD wagons are a pleasure to drive But they have their limitations when you do Serious touring/remote work and IF Landrover don't add a single/dual cab version of the new Defender then it will just be a "Meh" moment and most of the loyal fender owners will desert the "Brand" altogether and go elsewhere.
There is a lot of Speculation about how the new defender will look and what is equipped with So we will just have to sit and wait to see what eventuates AND evaluate IF it is a worthwhile 4WD to spend your quids on AND if it is a better option to the other Brands offerings [thumbsupbig]

[ramblingboy42]

exactly Trout.

[Zeros]

Yes all we can do is wait and see. ...Or keep talking about waiting and seeing. [bigwhistle]

[blackrangie]

Yes all we can do is wait and see. ...Or keep talking about waiting and seeing. [bigwhistle]Haha

[blackrangie]

The older disco's (D1, D2 and D3) are a great buy at the moment if you want a good capable 4WD wagon as far a Bang for Buck goes, Defenders Not so much.
Most 4WD wagons are a pleasure to drive But they have their limitations when you do Serious touring/remote work and IF Landrover don't add a single/dual cab version of the new Defender then it will just be a "Meh" moment and most of the loyal fender owners will desert the "Brand" altogether and go elsewhere.
There is a lot of Speculation about how the new defender will look and what is equipped with So we will just have to sit and wait to see what eventuates AND evaluate IF it is a worthwhile 4WD to spend your quids on AND if it is a better option to the other Brands offerings [thumbsupbig]D3 was an abomination when it was released, i still remember all the comments, funny how they are desirable now after the future caught up with it [emoji57]. D5 is the same, so many showing up on the roads now. Defender will no doubt be the same, initial shock it isn't a carbon copy, then people will start to get over it as they get used to it and the mods start showing.
Or maybe they will nail the styling so well 95% of potential buyers will desire it from day 1 [emoji7].

[blackrangie]

some here seem to think the y62 isnt much good straight from the showroom.

well I can tell you that if you can stay with a y62 anywhere , I mean anywhere you will be doing very , very well.

you may have to visit the fuel pump before it does too.

and save yourself $20-30,000 driveawayWith all due respect to Y62 owners, the y62 was brought up as an example of needing mods before doing a big lap and not being a 4wd ready truck from factory.(see pics).

Some comments where made about the orange defender pic being not a real 4wd, Please, the y62 and the lc200 look signigicantly more shopping trolley than any of the Defender sketches seen to date.

I remember seeing the y62 at a car show before release, years ago, and I swore nobody would ever buy one both because of the exterior and interior not even bothering to look at the mechanicals.

Fast forward a few years and i have had to eat humble pie, the mods and barwork have started flowing and people gave them a chance, and hey they ended up being a daym good truck after you bar em up, but for me still can't get over their ugliness in and out, even though I love a good 8, and they certainly have that ! [emoji1417]

Imo even the D5 with its strange rear door (heard that before) is fundamentally much better looking than a y62 in factory form.
Will a d5 look like a real 4x4 with kaymar twins and arb front + sliders, for sure.

Not a y62 bash as they are great trucks if their looks are your thing or you can put up with the look.

Point is, its funny how people get worked up about the slightest bit of roundness on a D5, RRV or a fantasy new Defender artists impression and call them blobs bla bla, when some of the most popular 4wds in AU are glorified shopping trolleys terrible approach, departure and ramp angles, before a cheque is written for 25k at ARB [emoji23].

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190228/30d94194d64e4236907a5fcad9eb2b20.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190228/bcb72bf358aa325c434c66cf08a9f329.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190228/1a15aa12ec354b516acfaff55af89ea8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190228/04d405187b30b5bf9b881304dad9ceb6.jpg

[ozscott]

D3 was an abomination when it was released, i still remember all the comments, funny how they are desirable now after the future caught up with it [emoji57]. D5 is the same, so many showing up on the roads now. Defender will no doubt be the same, initial shock it isn't a carbon copy, then people will start to get over it as they get used to it and the mods start showing.
Or maybe they will nail the styling so well 95% of potential buyers will desire it from day 1 [emoji7].Not for my money. I have wheeled with D3 and D4. In very arduous conditions like Cape York they are both less capable than a mildly lifted D2 and more prone to issues. They proved problematic on the OTT and everyone was on tenterhooks for what was going to go wrong next. Just too many electronics and air suspension connections for the conditions. Cheers


Ps. But if not going through bonnet height water they are probably one of the best things around to tour in.

[JDNSW]

Thing that puzzles me - the Defender (and its predecessors) are working vehicles - why all the emphasis on appearance? Perhaps because there is nothing significant available on its actual specifications?

[blackrangie]

Not for my money. I have wheeled with D3 and D4. In very arduous conditions like Cape York they are both less capable than a mildly lifted D2 and more prone to issues. They proved problematic on the OTT and everyone was on tenterhooks for what was going to go wrong next. Just too many electronics and air suspension connections for the conditions. Cheers


Ps. But if not going through bonnet height water they are probably one of the best things around to tour in.

Live axle d2 is a very capable truck! Agree a d2 would be more capable than a d3/4 but they are completely different standards of cars.
I would also argue that the D3 or D4 is overall a much more reliable and suitable car for doing a big lap over a d2.

100% you would have to have the right tyre and wheel combo with spares and ensure that if you have a suspension the main components are not more than 10 years old imo

Vehicle Preparation for Outback Australia: Land Rover Discovery 3 Overland Build (http://dirtydrifters.com.au/vehicle-preparation-australia/)

A coil d3 (whilst not as capable as an air version) are said to be very desirable as expedition build trucks. However people still feel air is better overall all things considered, i would agree if maintained right.

The point with the D3 and D4 was that when they first came out people thought they were ugly and an abomination to the discovery name, now people love them and no one talks about the rear door being ugly or the car in general.

[blackrangie]

Thing that puzzles me - the Defender (and its predecessors) are working vehicles - why all the emphasis on appearance? Perhaps because there is nothing significant available on its actual specifications?Yes maybe good point, I think people need to love the look of their 4x4 as well as it being functional.
There is a fair bit of information available about the mechanics of what the car will be and not be you just have to dig.

[JDNSW]

............
There is a fair bit of information available about the mechanics of what the car will be and not be you just have to dig.

I would put it more as speculation rather than information. For example, it is likely that it will be built on their new platform, it is almost certain to have Ingenium engines, but which ones is pure speculation. There have been conflicting hints as to what body types will be available, fairly definite statements as to multiple wheelbases, but what they are and when they will be released are all just speculation.

[blackrangie]

I would put it more as speculation rather than information. For example, it is likely that it will be built on their new platform, it is almost certain to have Ingenium engines, but which ones is pure speculation. There have been conflicting hints as to what body types will be available, fairly definite statements as to multiple wheelbases, but what they are and when they will be released are all just speculation.Yes however when you speculate + use the facts at hand, sometimes it leads you to logical conclusions and dependent on how many facts there are that lead you to that conclusion sometimes it's almost as good as fact. Kinda like pure speculation based on a gut feeling maybe a 25% chance of being correct.
Speculating or theorizing using multiple supporting facts could be anything above 75% or even up to 99% sure.




I think the pyramid shows, but could be wrong.

Discovery:

Intelligent
Versatile
Enabling
Breadth of capability

Defender:

Functional
Durable
Practical
Off road expertise

This is the JLR public plan moving forward and focus of these vehicles.

I would say the Disco matches its brief, that is positive for the new fender.
From the mules, JLR comments, spy pics, etc haven't seen anything that would disprove the defenders brief.

What we know so far:

Fully independant long travel susp
Extensive underbody protection.
Great approach/rampover/departure angles.
Variety of engines Ingenium petrol and desiel.
Highly probable 3 front seats, based on leak and dealer comments.
Relatively durable interior based on leak.
Def Auto, maybe manual but unlikely.
SWB and LWB, and 8 or so other body's
2020 Land Rover Defender: What We Know | Land Rover Palm Beach (https://www.landroverpalmbeach.com/2020defender/)
Rear hung spare (optional?)
MLA infrastructure (mild/Hybrid/Ev)
Most capable vehicle JLR have made yet.
18 inch wheels with possiblity of 17s
Full retro side opening rear door.
Monocoque (lighter and stronger)
Will have landrover incontrol features.
Pricing: unreleased.









https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190222/3156d15f2cb7495fb76e09618143e99d.jpg

[blackrangie]

"JLR has also said it will launch a three-cylinder Ingenium engine that will be used in a future plug-in hybrid version of the Range Rover Evoque compact SUV. JLR is also expected to announce a diesel straight-six Ingenium engine to replace a Ford-sourced V-6 unit.

JLR currently buys V-6 and V-8 gasoline engines from Ford’s Bridgend plant but has said it will end the agreement in 2020. Ford has no other customers for the engines and has said it will cut jobs at the factory as it concentrates on its own four-cylinder engines at the plant. JLR will stop purchasing V-6 diesel engines this year from Ford’s engine plant in Dagenham, London."


Jaguar Land Rover debuts straight-six engine in the Range Rover Sport - The San Diego Union-Tribune (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/cars/sd-ad-au-0303-rangerover-inline6-story.html)

If the new Defender doesn't come with the ingenium straight six turbocharged supercharged I will be very surprised.

Considering the facts of what engines will be available then what are other options are there

[JDNSW]

Exactly - but still really speculation rather than hard information, even if it is informed speculation.

[blackrangie]

Exactly - but still really speculation rather than hard information, even if it is informed speculation.All fun n games

[ramblingboy42]

Blackrangie , Land Rover have never made a powerful series/defender and I dont believe they will.

Power to Land Rovers agricultural vehicles has always been adequate. I grew up from early childhood and cut my teeth in them around 5-6 years of age.

I saw them do some astonishing feats out in the bush and no one ever said they needed more power , they were geared properly to work and work they did.

The new generation Defender will also have no need for powerful engines , they too will be geared properly to work.

I may see a shift in the paradigm , but I don't think so.

Think logic , stop fantasising.

[ozscott]

For sure. They can't make the Defender too quick as it will take sales of Disco and RR.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

Blackrangie , Land Rover have never made a powerful series/defender and I dont believe they will.

Power to Land Rovers agricultural vehicles has always been adequate. I grew up from early childhood and cut my teeth in them around 5-6 years of age.

I saw them do some astonishing feats out in the bush and no one ever said they needed more power , they were geared properly to work and work they did.

The new generation Defender will also have no need for powerful engines , they too will be geared properly to work.

I may see a shift in the paradigm , but I don't think so.

Think logic , stop fantasising.No one disagrees that the original defender was agricultural and geared well to not need a powerfull engine. I see where you are coming from there.

Logically defender increased in power over the years, so much so that in the pumas you could hold it at 110kph through most if not all freeway hills up the east coast.

People appreciate the drivability.

JLR are on record saying they will need a good range of engines for the new defender to be successful in different markets. Logically this will be low to high powered, petrol and diesel. Modern buyers want capability + ability to overtake safely on the freeway etc.

"According to Car magazine, the 2.0-litre four-cylinder petrol and diesel engines commonly used through the Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) range will be available on the new Defender. New 3.0-litre straight-six engines should also be available on more powerful models.

Land Rover is expected to equip models with a 48-volt hybrid system, says Auto Express. A plug-in hybrid system offering more electric range could become available at a later date."

Land Rover Defender 2020: first images, specs, prices and UK release | The Week UK (https://www.theweek.co.uk/4x4/97754/land-rover-defender-2020-uk-release-date-prices-design-specs-images)

"Engine options are expected to include four- and six-cylinder petrol and diesel mills, along with hybrid options. Expect the new Land Rover Defender to be fully revealed in 2019, before rolling into showrooms a year later."

SPY PICS: New Land Rover Defender outed - motoring.com.au (https://www.motoring.com.au/spy-pics-new-land-rover-defender-outed-115053/)



200tdi 80kw
V8 defender sold to US
300tdi 83kw
50th anniversary 90 in 1998, equipped with automatic transmission, air conditioning and Range Rover 4.0-litre V8 engine. 140kw
Bmw m52 engine offered in Africa 143kw
Td5 91kw
Puma 91kw
2018 298kw V8 works defender released.


No fantasy mate just logical conclusions, all the automotive reporters seem to agree, happy to be corrected, it just seems to be the general consensus.

It is highly improbable the new defender wont have a range of lower to higher powered engines and tunes, in petrol, diesel and electric.

[scarry]

Lets just hope he keeps his word

Way back in April 2013, Land Rover’s fiery chief designer Gerry McGovern said the new Defender would “…will be incredibly distinctive”.

[blackrangie]

For sure. They can't make the Defender too quick as it will take sales of Disco and RR.

CheersUsing that logic the supercharged 8 SVR velar should not have been released, or the Supercharged 8 RRV, all taking sales from the RRS SVR supercharged 8

Man that SVR velar is going to be a weapon!

[blackrangie]

Lets just hope he keeps his word

Way back in April 2013, Land Rover’s fiery chief designer Gerry McGovern said the new Defender would “…will be incredibly distinctive”.Yeah true and in 2018:

"Speaking from the 2018 Paris Motor Show, Jaguar Land Rover's chief marketing officer Felix Bräutigam said: "The new Defender will not simply be a copy-cat, something retro. It will be something that moves the game on for Land Rover."

Mules have been powered by a 2.0-litre diesel engine according to the registration information held by the DVLA, while other prototypes have been running a petrol enigne. With Land Rover having already confirmed that all its models post 2020 will be electrified in some way, we expect that each powertrain will feature at least a 48-volt mild-hybrid system.

Jaguar Land Rover insists the Defender will need a "balanced engine portfolio" in order to succeed in all global markets.

JLR executive Dr Ralf Speth informed us that early development mules were undergoing testing by bosses back in 2017.
Rather excitingly, the JLR boss assured us that the new car will be “even more capable” than the outgoing Defender when the terrain gets challenging.

Teasing further, he said: “I have driven test mules already… and also tried the car against competitors, in on and off-road environments. It’s sensational.” He would not put a timeframe on when the new Land Rover Defender would debut but he did say: “It is coming. We are working an authentic successor of the predecessor.”

Land Rover's chief marketing officer Felix Bräutigam told Auto Express: "One of the exciting things for us is that we are not launching a car, we are launching a family of cars."

design boss Gerry McGovern has hinted that a performance SVR version of the forthcoming 4x4 could also be on the cards. Such a car would be developed by Jaguar Land Rover’s newly formed Special Vehicle Operations (SVO) division, and would allow the brand to tap into demand in Russia and China for powerful and luxurious rugged off-roaders, currently dominated by the Mercedes-AMG G 63.

It's also likely that a hardcore Defender SVX will join the range at some stage and we could even see a luxurious SVA version in line with the Range Rover SVAutobiography.

New 2020 Land Rover Defender: latest details and spy shots | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/19933/new-2020-land-rover-defender-latest-details-and-spy-shots)

Funny how people say JLR have said nothing about the new defender.

[scarry]

And this

"Whatever happens, the new Defender will continue Land Rover’s recent move upmarket. “In its core form it can be something that can be quite elemental up to something incredibly luxurious,” said McGovern."

Thats a good indication it will be more in D4 class than a vehicle that it was.

LC 70 will not be in the same class.

There was also indications that a utility version may not appear,at least for a while.

Personally,from what has been seen and said,i don't think there will be one.

Anyway,as said,we will have to wait,not long to go now...[thumbsupbig]

[DI5CO]

Maybe the cranks keep snapping during proto testing and that’s why it’s launch is later and later[emoji23]

[blackrangie]

Maybe the cranks keep snapping during proto testing and that’s why it’s launch is later and later[emoji23]Haha, see what ya did therehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190301/78db89aa91350ce040222255cc842fa3.jpg

[blackrangie]

And this

"Whatever happens, the new Defender will continue Land Rover’s recent move upmarket. “In its core form it can be something that can be quite elemental up to something incredibly luxurious,” said McGovern."

Thats a good indication it will be more in D4 class than a vehicle that it was.

LC 70 will not be in the same class.

There was also indications that a utility version may not appear,at least for a while.

Personally,from what has been seen and said,i don't think there will be one.

Anyway,as said,we will have to wait,not long to go now...[thumbsupbig]

Good points,however the wording was as follows:

Whatever happens, the new Defender will continue Land Rover’s recent move upmarket. (Reporter)

“In its core form it can be something that can be quite elemental up to something incredibly luxurious,” said McGovern.(JLR)

the wording shows it can be utilitarian to luxury in the same car.

“In its core form it can be something that can be quite elemental"

Comparing the D4 interior to the leaked interior, D4 looks luxury, new defender utilitarian. Based on that it would seem the defender would be more hardcore than a D4.

With the ute, is it the two mules that you are saying are the indicators of no ute?

"The Defender has up to ten different body styles from soft top to Utility Wagon to Double Cab Pick Up allowing you to ride around Delray Beach in the Defender that’s best for you and your driving needs."

The Land Rover Lineup: Land Rover will have three branches to their model lineup: the luxury Range Rover branch, the versatile Discovery branch, and the Defender branch, which aims to offer the “world’s most capable off-road vehicles.”

2020 Land Rover Defender: What We Know | Land Rover Palm Beach (https://www.landroverpalmbeach.com/2020defender/) (this is an official branch landrover page)

2019 Chicago Auto Show Recap | The Largest Auto Show in North America (https://www.landroverpalmbeach.com/2019-chicago-auto-show-recap/)

Agree they may or may not happen from "D" Day, but it looks like a family of defenders is happening.

[grey_ghost]

Enough already. Until Land Rover release official data - I am over the speculation. Give me actual FACTS.

[blackrangie]

Enough already. Until Land Rover release official data - I am over the speculation. Give me actual FACTS.Just did haha, lots of them, actual JLR comments, announcements and links [emoji8]

[DiscoMick]

A Range Rover EV that can recharge in 2.7 hours using a JLR supplied charging point sounds cool, but at what cost? Normal 7kw home charging points are about $2k from memory.

[ozscott]

Look its kind of fun but really all just bollocks at the moment. We all cleary would be better off getting out and driving our existing oil leakers. Cheers

[blackrangie]

Look its kind of fun but really all just bollocks at the moment. We all cleary would be better off getting out and driving our existing oil leakers. CheersCant say i agree with first half of your comment as a lot of research and effort has gone into allot of posts on here by multiple people, I'm sure all this is appreciated as we all have a much better idea of what the new defender will, won't or might be. JLR can release more info whenever they like, I'm pretty intrigued by their game plan though.

[Zeros]

Aren’t we all just waiting to see really?

I don’t think we have any idea what the new Defender will be like yet. We have no images of the body uncovered, no news about drivetrain, nothing concrete.

So far we have a very disguised camo mule and bucketloads of marketing spin.

It’s fun to speculate and most of my posts are about what I think it should be IMO. Or about the fact that we don’t really know anything.

Available ‘research’ is very limited. Marketing spin, journo imaginings and educated guesses are not facts.

[scarry]

A Range Rover EV that can recharge in 2.7 hours using a JLR supplied charging point sounds cool, but at what cost? Normal 7kw home charging points are about $2k from memory.

An I pace can fully charge in 45 minutes,but you will need a 100KW charger:eek2::eek2:

[blackrangie]

Aren’t we all just waiting to see really?

I don’t think we have any idea what the new Defender will be like yet. We have no images of the body uncovered, no news about drive train, nothing concrete.

So far we have a very disguised camo mule and bucketloads of marketing spin.

It’s fun to speculate and most of my posts are about what I think it should be IMO. Or about the fact that we don’t really know anything. Available ‘research’ is very limited. Marketing spin, journo imaginings and educated guesses are not facts.Thats your opinion [emoji6]

[RobA]

I find it totally unsurprising that we have seen some slow release camo and a predictable test of the USA market and all of a sudden it stops. If their timing remains on track then there may be something at the Geneva show in March perhaps.

Would fit with the slow, soft launch approach and potentially fit with them being in a position to have enough product information for dealers to start taking early orders.

Who knows . It remains a bit of fun ATM

Rob

[DiscoMick]

Certainly succeeded in getting a big social media discussion happening to stir up interest.

[ramblingboy42]

....and I certainly haven't taken much notice of it.

[Zeros]

Thats your opinion [emoji6]

Correct.

(Infact obviously it couldn’t be anyone else’s opinion. We are all only able to express our own opinions. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded).

[Zeros]

Certainly succeeded in getting a big social media discussion happening to stir up interest.

Has it? I wouldn’t know. I only follow AULRO. ...is it really trending outside Land Rover enthusiast circles and motoring blogs? Or is the ‘big’ social media discussion just a handful of us wierdy beardies?

Seriously I’d like to know...

[scarry]

There is a fair bit on Defender2.net about it.

Nothing that isn't on here or the other threads on AULRO about it.

Same sort of stuff as on here[thumbsupbig]

Lots of maybe,could be,hope its a revised D4,blah,blah,blah.

[blackrangie]

....and I certainly haven't taken much notice of it.Hence why your replying to a thread about it [emoji6][emoji8]

[DiscoMick]

Correct.

(Infact obviously it couldn’t be anyone else’s opinion. We are all only able to express our own opinions. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded).I could have a go at expressing your opinion for you if you like, but I'd probably be wrong.

[DI5CO]

Here’s another article.
Now we can comment and argue again for another 20 posts[emoji23]

New Land Rover Defender Takes Off All Camo In Exclusive Rendering (https://www.motor1.com/news/307492/land-rover-defender-exclusive-rendering/)

[trout1105]

That looks to be a cross between a D4 and a rangerover with masses of expensive plastic bits to get torn off in the Bush.

[ozscott]

God I hope that it doesn't look like that...even steel work might not save the looks. Cheers

[ramblingboy42]

Here’s another article.
Now we can comment and argue again for another 20 posts[emoji23]

New Land Rover Defender Takes Off All Camo In Exclusive Rendering (https://www.motor1.com/news/307492/land-rover-defender-exclusive-rendering/)

more hype

no
body is going to see the real McCoy until LR are ready

[ramblingboy42]

Hence why your replying to a thread about it [emoji6][emoji8]

wtf is that supposed to imply?

[Homestar]

wtf is that supposed to imply?

Pretty sure he means that despite you saying you're not showing much interest, you still showed enough to reply in this thread about it - so you've taken enough of an interest to comment. [biggrin]

[Zeros]

I could have a go at expressing your opinion for you if you like, but I'd probably be wrong.

[thumbsupbig]...youre welcome to try Mick, but youd (pun intended [bigwhistle]) just be expressing your own opinion about what you think my opinion would be...

[Zeros]

Doesn’t everyone just love an “exclusive rendering”?! LOL [bigwhistle]

[blackrangie]

Here’s another article.
Now we can comment and argue again for another 20 posts[emoji23]

New Land Rover Defender Takes Off All Camo In Exclusive Rendering (https://www.motor1.com/news/307492/land-rover-defender-exclusive-rendering/)Its in the retro thread

[blackrangie]

Doesn’t everyone just love an “exclusive rendering”?! LOL [bigwhistle]Yup haha..Man that rendering is such a poor job aye, whoever did it should be fired

[101RRS]

Actually that last version looks like a 2 door Toyota Rukus.