Central tyre inflation maybe?

[Ranga]

2020 Land Rover Defender News, Photos, Price & Release Date - What We Know About the New Land Rover Defender (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a25010312/2020-land-rover-defender-info/)

The schematics look simple [emoji12]

[donh54]

Would it be too much to ask LR for a vehicle that has no more electronics on it than absolutely necessary to allow for meeting ADR type regs in the proposed countries in which it would be sold?

Most people waiting for the new Defender would be more than capable of selecting low range, turning diff locks on or off as required, and even airing up or down their tyres themselves.

Then they could concentrate on fitting long-term proven reliability into their running gear, without trying to be the techiest whizz-kid on the block.
Even (shock/horror) look at something like a Cummins/Alison type drivetrain. Parts and servicing available almost anywhere in the world, using off the shelf filters, etc.

Hell, I've spent the greatest portion of my life without such things as aircon, electric windows and seats, adaptive cruise control, auto-sensing headlights and wipers, lane departure warnings, traction control, ESP, etc, etc, etc. Just something with a decent payload/towing capacity, reasonable fuel economy, adequate on road handling, and capable enough off road that a fairly competent driver can get most places he/she wants to go. But above all, something reliable, and simple enough that even a dealer-trained mechanic can have a fair shot at diagnosing and repairing without having to plug in a supercomputer!

[DiscoMick]

Why? Electronics are very reliable now, maybe more reliable than mechanical systems.
For example, an E-locker is less likely to get a fault than an air locker. Electric vs mechanical windows. Electronic instruments etc.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

omg,, the target market is First world football mums!

seriously,, you think they care about the 200 odd Aussies that want to buy one??

[blackrangie]

Wow!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181206/249be25b03300273cbb8f7e19b442a86.jpg

[blackrangie]

Would it be too much to ask LR for a vehicle that has no more electronics on it than absolutely necessary to allow for meeting ADR type regs in the proposed countries in which it would be sold?

Most people waiting for the new Defender would be more than capable of selecting low range, turning diff locks on or off as required, and even airing up or down their tyres themselves.

Then they could concentrate on fitting long-term proven reliability into their running gear, without trying to be the techiest whizz-kid on the block.
Even (shock/horror) look at something like a Cummins/Alison type drivetrain. Parts and servicing available almost anywhere in the world, using off the shelf filters, etc.

Hell, I've spent the greatest portion of my life without such things as aircon, electric windows and seats, adaptive cruise control, auto-sensing headlights and wipers, lane departure warnings, traction control, ESP, etc, etc, etc. Just something with a decent payload/towing capacity, reasonable fuel economy, adequate on road handling, and capable enough off road that a fairly competent driver can get most places he/she wants to go. But above all, something reliable, and simple enough that even a dealer-trained mechanic can have a fair shot at diagnosing and repairing without having to plug in a supercomputer!Buy a suzuki haha

[rar110]

It would be cool just driving past the cars airing down before Inskip and the ones stuck on the beach. Auto tyre pressure adjustment. [emoji106]

A logical step. Auto tyre inflation works for the military.

[DiscoMick]

A great idea.

[Red90]

Nothing like complexity from a company with the worst reliability rating on the planet....

[weeds]

I would assume central tyre inflation would be an option....90% of owners would get any real value out it apart from being a cool thing.

If it was an option I would tick, it ain’t that hard to get out and deflate tyres, I have staun and they are about as easy as it gets. Also gives you the opportunity to smell the roses, check tyre conditions and check the car, oh and grab a beer.

[blackrangie]

Nothing like complexity from a company with the worst reliability rating on the planet....
There is a massive difference between an early p38 rangie and a 2018 rangie in terms of reliability.
I know which one id rather take touring.

[DiscoMick]

Most of the complaints against most car companies are trivial like phones not Bluetoothing or stuff needing resetting. Mechanical reliability issues are unusual.

[Red90]

There is a massive difference between an early p38 rangie and a 2018 rangie in terms of reliability.
I know which one id rather take touring.

Go look at their reliability ratings. The are second to last in the world. What ten years and you will see what that new RR is like.

[Bigbjorn]

Why? Electronics are very reliable now, maybe more reliable than mechanical systems.
For example, an E-locker is less likely to get a fault than an air locker. Electric vs mechanical windows. Electronic instruments etc.

Mick, you have been bloody lucky with your automotive electronics if that is your opinion. Since the first electronic ignition systems in the 1970's to todays all electronic singing and dancing cars I have had a right royal rooting from auto. electronics. Numerous failures requiring tilt traying to a dealership. Great fun when sailing down a highway in the middle of the night when the thing just stops many miles from help, or, stops in a six lane main road at peak hour.

Much of the stuff fitted to new cars can be classed as selling tools so salesmen can have a ****ing contest. "Ours has this, this, this, and theirs doesn't". Many items can be classed as possibly nice to have but unnecessary.

[Bigbjorn]

Buy a suzuki haha

What is new about this? Almost forty years ago I was selling pneumatic tyre rollers with "Air on the run" as an option. By the mid 80's this was standard on the big 21 tonne & 38 tonne Pacific rollers.

[RobA]

OK fascinating. This link Central Tire Inflation System | HowStuffWorks (https://auto.howstuffworks.com/self-inflating-tire2.htm) needs to be read in detail but it's easy to understand. The key to making this system work is the rim. QED that means nothing but an OE rim will ever be available for this system and that may, repeat may, prejudice tyre choice for us that like to drive off bitumen. As well the tyre choice, depends on rim design, may also become quite vehicle specific. For me the homily of "be careful what you wish for" applies to this piece of technology.

Don't get me wrong I have used them in my defence career and they work really well. But the rim and vehicle type are all engineered around continuous mobility regardless of conditions so that sort of engineering requirement makes for a very different vehicle compared to something commercially available. Yes I know heavy vehicles have them but the same logic applies. You also don't do a lot of airing up and down either whereas on a typical outback trip we would carry out that process probably around 100 times depending on where and why.

The USA market will love it as unless the duck changes this they are heading towards legislating for systems like this across the board

Give me the choice

Rob

[blackrangie]

Go look at their reliability ratings. The are second to last in the world. What ten years and you will see what that new RR is like.They are based on recalls per year usually, i think for such a complicated car 3 free recalls during a year is not to bad, usually carried out during service.

Toyota Land Cruiser Recalls by Year - Toyota Problems (http://www.toyotaproblems.com/models/land-cruiser/recalls/)

Says over 2x per year for cruiser.

I remember reading its around 3x for the new vogue, pretty fair considering how much more car you get.

200 Cruiser has suffered from engines using oil, dirt in engine via airbox leading to limp mode, cv joints clunking. They are also very expensive when things need replacing Why I SOLD my 200 Series Twin Turbo Diesel ! (https://www.exploroz.com/forum/100045/why-i-sold-my-200-series-twin-turbo-diesel)

[blackrangie]

What is new about this? Almost forty years ago I was selling pneumatic tyre rollers with "Air on the run" as an option. By the mid 80's this was standard on the big 21 tonne & 38 tonne Pacific rollers.Did you reply to the wrong person?

[blackrangie]

OK fascinating. This link Central Tire Inflation System | HowStuffWorks (https://auto.howstuffworks.com/self-inflating-tire2.htm) needs to be read in detail but it's easy to understand. The key to making this system work is the rim. QED that means nothing but an OE rim will ever be available for this system and that may, repeat may, prejudice tyre choice for us that like to drive off bitumen. As well the tyre choice, depends on rim design, may also become quite vehicle specific. For me the homily of "be careful what you wish for" applies to this piece of technology.

Don't get me wrong I have used them in my defence career and they work really well. But the rim and vehicle type are all engineered around continuous mobility regardless of conditions so that sort of engineering requirement makes for a very different vehicle compared to something commercially available. Yes I know heavy vehicles have them but the same logic applies. You also don't do a lot of airing up and down either whereas on a typical outback trip we would carry out that process probably around 100 times depending on where and why.

The USA market will love it as unless the duck changes this they are heading towards legislating for systems like this across the board

Give me the choice

RobThe LR one will most likely link to terrain response and and sport setting and speed and adjust pressures accordingly.
Will prob also top up when a slow leak occurs.

I wonder if you had full flat would it try to keep you going?

[Red90]

They are based on recalls per year usually, i think for such a complicated car 3 free recalls during a year is not to bad, usually carried out during service.

Toyota Land Cruiser Recalls by Year - Toyota Problems (http://www.toyotaproblems.com/models/land-cruiser/recalls/)

Says over 2x per year for cruiser.

I remember reading its around 3x for the new vogue, pretty fair considering how much more car you get.

200 Cruiser has suffered from engines using oil, dirt in engine via airbox leading to limp mode, cv joints clunking. They are also very expensive when things need replacing Why I SOLD my 200 Series Twin Turbo Diesel ! (https://www.exploroz.com/forum/100045/why-i-sold-my-200-series-twin-turbo-diesel)

Lots of excuses. I know a lot of new owners and they are losing count at the number of breakdowns. These appear much worse than the older Land Rovers.

[blackrangie]

Lots of excuses. I know a lot of new owners and they are losing count at the number of breakdowns. These appear much worse than the older Land Rovers.I think ill just stick to facts

[Red90]

I think ill just stick to facts

Are you suggesting that I’m lying?

[blackrangie]

Are you suggesting that I’m lying?Im suggesting facts are facts an average of 3 recalls per year compared to 2. As stated previously this is usually what reliability ratings are based off. Which your original argument was.. Land Rover has one of the worst reliability ratings.

I would argue that hey Range Rover vogue gives the driver 10 times more car than a 200 series so one more recall per year is quite reasonable.

Ive also read on this forum from a member that has a Toyota mechanic friend that says that Toyotas are just as unreliable as any other car, it's all in the marketing, but again that statement is not a fact.

The general consensus on this forum is that Electronics in Land Rovers have come a long way over the years and are much more reliable now then they have ever been.

Having extra features in the early p38's was a nightmare for some however many lessons have been learnt over the years in the automotive industry and at Land Rover and having extra features now is not the Nightmare at used to be.

I had a conversation with someone with a Discovery 4 just yesterday that had it from new, he just traded it for a 200 series cruiser. I said why did you trade in: he said well it's out of warranty and the repairs are going to cost a lot coming up soon. I said in the 5 years that you've had it how many times did it break down and leave you on the side of the road: he said and I quote "not once". I said was it maintained perfectly he said "yes" not by Land Rover.

The new defender will be technologically advanced however that seems to be the new norm for safe Suvs, the reliability of the whole car and the electronics and general will stand to be tested.. however as we have seen in recent years Land Rover put a huge emphasis in real world testing which for me is a massive positive as they don't leave the testing up to the public like many manufacturers..

[Red90]

You really like to hear yourself talk. Land Rover is near the bottom of the reliability rating world wide by every rating organization. It has nothing to do with recalls.

They are unreliable. These are the facts.

[scarry]

" however as we have seen in recent years Land Rover put a huge emphasis in real world testing which for me is a massive positive as they don't leave the testing up to the public like many manufacturers.."

They did a fantastic job with the release of the very first D3's.

A test was organised in East Africa,to showcase the new range of vehicles to the dealers and public.
Every one of them broke down.
Not a great start.....,so much for their real world testing

I have never seen any type of reliability survey where an LR product has not been near the bottom,seems to be pretty consistent.
And those surveys include many other European highly complicated vehicles,which are often near the top of the reliability list.

[blackrangie]

You really like to hear yourself talk. Land Rover is near the bottom of the reliability rating world wide by every rating organization. It has nothing to do with recalls.

They are unreliable. These are the facts.Mate, lets keep this about the cars, when someone starts using insults they have already lost the argument.

Recalls are used by ratings organizations.

[blackrangie]

" however as we have seen in recent years Land Rover put a huge emphasis in real world testing which for me is a massive positive as they don't leave the testing up to the public like many manufacturers.."

They did a fantastic job with the release of the very first D3's.

A test was organised in East Africa,to showcase the new range of vehicles to the dealers and public.
Every one of them broke down.
Not a great start.....,so much for their real world testing

I have never seen any type of reliability survey where an LR product has not been near the bottom,seems to be pretty consistent.
And those surveys include many other European highly complicated vehicles,which are often near the top of the reliability list.Mate, the D3 was released 14 years ago!

Much has changed in the last 14years, infact much has changed in the last few!

Discovery won 4x4 of the year how many times in a year, in one of the harshest countries in the world?

[blackrangie]

You really like to hear yourself talk. Land Rover is near the bottom of the reliability rating world wide by every rating organization. It has nothing to do with recalls.

They are unreliable. These are the facts.If they are so unreliable maybe you should be on on toyota forum, telling all your toyota mates how reliable toyota tells you toyotas are.

Saying LR's are unreliable is a generalization to say the least, there have been many reliable lr models, i would say most defenders, discoverys and most of the new model land rovers are quite reliable,

However i would say 1995-1998 p38s horrendously unreliable and where most of the Land Rovers are unreliable talk came from.

2018 Land Rovers are world's apart from a 1998 Range Rover p38..20 years of extra knowledge and experience of the combined auto industry has gone into these new cars.

I would I jump in a 2018 Range Rover and point it anywhere in Australia right now...yes.. same be said about a 1998 Range Rover...no.

My point is that Electronics in cars and Land Rovers have come a long way and it seems some people in the Land Rover world are stuck in p38 style Electronics the devil mentality.

Just a taste of the testing in real-world conditions that Land Rover do before we get our cars, the d5 jumping surprised me!

Ev
YouTube (https://youtu.be/MiLA3luID3k)

Ds
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etGj4Dmi400)

D5
YouTube (https://youtu.be/qOfnUqNB0NE)

Svr
YouTube (https://youtu.be/3dCzIBVMqFs)

I would only imagine that since we've had a such a massive wait for the new defender it would be getting even more testing in more scenarios

[DiscoMick]

They are based on recalls per year usually, i think for such a complicated car 3 free recalls during a year is not to bad, usually carried out during service.

Toyota Land Cruiser Recalls by Year - Toyota Problems (http://www.toyotaproblems.com/models/land-cruiser/recalls/)

Says over 2x per year for cruiser.

I remember reading its around 3x for the new vogue, pretty fair considering how much more car you get.

200 Cruiser has suffered from engines using oil, dirt in engine via airbox leading to limp mode, cv joints clunking. They are also very expensive when things need replacing Why I SOLD my 200 Series Twin Turbo Diesel ! (https://www.exploroz.com/forum/100045/why-i-sold-my-200-series-twin-turbo-diesel)Don't follow how recalls can be used to measure reliability. Most recalls are mass upgrades of parts following a small number of failures. Most of the parts replaced, usually at scheduled services, had not actually failed, but were replaced as a precaution before they failed. An example is the airbag recalls. Most of the airbags replaced had not failed, but were replaced during regular services. So if the part had not failed, how can that reveal reliability?

[scarry]

Mate, the D3 was released 14 years ago!

Much has changed in the last 14years, infact much has changed in the last few!

Discovery won 4x4 of the year how many times in a year, in one of the harshest countries in the world?

Thats the issue,not much has changed at all,look at ANY reliability survey in the last 10yrs.

They can't all be wrong.

4x4 of the year was the result of motoring journalists testing reports,having a play in a vehicle for a few hours,maybe days,that has absolutely nothing to do with long term reliability.

Mate,i have a fair idea about LR's,i have had 5 all bought new in the last 20yrs.

I also run a fleet of Jap vehicles.........

[scarry]

Have a look at this,from a post on here,
Umm,note the date....

The J.D. Power 2018 US Initial Quality Study ranks Range Rover last. Last has been a consistent rating for the Tata Motors subsidiary.

From the Australian

"As Autotrader.com/Oversteer editor Doug DeMuro says: “Yes, that’s right: according to its own customers, the Land Rover dealership experience is roughly the same as the one you’ll get at good ol’ Billy Bob Chevrolet, home of low prices and brightly coloured helium balloons. In other words: Land Rover, who wants you to spend $135,000 for a Range Rover Supercharged Autobiography Portfolio Westminster Humidor Aardvark, will treat you the same as Chevrolet, who sells the Spark for $13,000, and Chrysler, who would finance a stray dog as long as it doesn’t pee in the showroom. (But) I believe Land Rover, noted manufacturer of vehicles that last as long as the chickenpox, couldn’t care less about its history of poor service, weak quality, and substandard *reliability.”

[pop058]

You really like to hear yourself talk. Land Rover is near the bottom of the reliability rating world wide by every rating organization. It has nothing to do with recalls.

They are unreliable. These are the facts.

Mod hat ON,

Lets keep the thread on subject (or at least about Landies) and the personal shots out of the discussion.

Please continue [smilebigeye]

[nick_e]

I agree, this gimmick of a feature is classic modern LR. Completely out of touch with their customer base.

They should work on their reliability and customer service. They would sell a lot more vehicles if people could trust them...

[blackrangie]

I agree, this gimmick of a feature is classic modern LR. Completely out of touch with their customer base.

They should work on their reliability and customer service. They would sell a lot more vehicles if people could trust them...Actually I would say their main customer base now is not defender owners, however the defender is extremely important to them as its the Halo brand..they are attempting to appeal to a much broader market to make the new defender financially viable, unlike the old one in today's world which wasnt and had to be changed or they wouldnt be making it at all, safety, viability, broad appeal, comfort etc.

It will be rugged and durable, but it will also be modern, i would liken it to jumping from a D1 to a D4 or D5, shocking if done in one hit but the new ones still are great cars.

If Landrover had slowly updated the defender wagon like the landcruiser wagon (think 60 series through 200series) over the years we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Because landrover have only modernized the defender very slightly over the years the jump to the newy is going to be shocking and hard to take for die hard fans, but some not all will come around.

CTIS if it works and is reliable, should be amazing paired into the terrain response system.

I respect that simplicity is best in the bush however for JLR to compete with todays cars and come out ontop they need to outperform in all scenarios both on and offroad and do it with durability, safety and with functionality the modern landrover owner demand etc. No easy task.

Landrover had always been ahead of the competition with offroad functionality CTIS with terrain response maybe another area they show this.