Fitting new rear discs.

[Ean Austral]

Gday All,

Prolly be doing a 4 disc and pad change tomorrow , and I have just been reading Bodsy's brake bible. It says if you replace the rear disc's you need to do a park brake re-adjustment . Why would that be ?

I know my EPB shoe's have more than sufficient material still on them as they were looked at when the rear wheel bearings were done 5000ks ago, and I would have thought that you would only need to do this if replacing the EPB shoe's.

Its basically just a drum brake set up using the inside of the disc as the drum , so if you didn't apply the EPB and removed the old discs and fitted new ones what is the need to adjust the brake shoes ?

I can imagine the thickness of the disc where the pads are applied do wear but surely the inside of the disc doesn't wear as well . Its been a long time since I played around with drum brakes but from memory we never had any issue's removing the drum if the brakes weren't applied.

I am happy to do it the way he says but my simple brain tells me that it shouldn't be needed.

Thoughts.

Cheers Ean

.

[RobA]

Trust the Bible. Had our rears done not long back. One of the key reasons, apart from marginal on thickness was they could not get any more adjustment out of the EPB. Once done all good again on both sides of the rear braking equation

Rob

[Lukeis]

ITs certainly possible it would wear the metal down overtime and this could effect the fitting of the new disc forcing the brake pad to be partially contacted and overheat on your first drive.

in any case there is a manual adjustment under the disc so what’s the downside in spinning it back a slight amount? No extra work

[LRD414]

It says if you replace the rear disc's you need to do a park brake re-adjustment . Why would that be ?
Just because it's best practice I think Ean. In many instances it would have been a long time since the last adjustment and rotor change is the ideal time because everything is apart anyway. If you use the EPB sparingly and never drive through it for auto-release it is unlikely for the "drum" side to be worn much, meaning in theory it should be ok. However, what I found when doing mine is that the clearance between shoes and "drum" was minimal and this made it difficult to install the new rotor, so I backed it off and then followed the adjustment instructions. Also, your shoes were inspected fairly recently but was an adjustment done or are they close to the limit of adjustment? I think these doubts are why it's worth doing the adjustment and then you know exactly what you have.

Cheers,
Scott

[Ean Austral]

Just because it's best practice I think Ean. In many instances it would have been a long time since the last adjustment and rotor change is the ideal time because everything is apart anyway. If you use the EPB sparingly and never drive through it for auto-release it is unlikely for the "drum" side to be worn much, meaning in theory it should be ok. However, what I found when doing mine is that the clearance between shoes and "drum" was minimal and this made it difficult to install the new rotor, so I backed it off and then followed the adjustment instructions. Also, your shoes were inspected fairly recently but was an adjustment done or are they close to the limit of adjustment? I think these doubts are why it's worth doing the adjustment and then you know exactly what you have.

Cheers,
Scott

Gday Scott,

When I was in Tassie and asked Justin Cooper he said roughly 60% left on the shoes of the EPB - bloke at AMV told me a similar number and the car has not had the drive thru option used since we have owned it. I have no issue's doing the adjustment and as you say it could be more for the cars that never really get looked at.

Will see how it plays out tomorrow I guess.

Cheers Ean

[LRD414]

Justin probably did an adjustment anyway. The amount of wear is not really the main issue. They can be relatively good for wear but still heading towards limit of adjustment. It all depends on the starting point.

Cheers,
Scott

[Turtle60]

Hi Ean. Did this whole process just a month or two ago and followed the bible. Great help. But i baulked at the handbrake adjustment too as I figured if the rotor went on with no resistance then I thought why have more play by backing it off. Buttoned it all up and no drama to date. Now I’m worried. In theory I wonder how they can wear as they are only applied stationary and release prior to Taking off. What wears them or the inside of the rotor out? I’m sure someone can help me out here.
Cheers Steve

[DiscoJeffster]

Just do it right? Why not do it properly and know that you have not only replaced the discs but you’re sure the park brake is adjusted correctly. I’m mean with the endless posts of failed park brakes due to over extension, why would you risk it? It’s a simple procedure. Loosen a screw and adjust a nut. It’s literally 5 minutes a side. It’s the difference between being a whinger on here about a screeching park brake and smiling every day.
As Nike say “ Just do it”.
Plus you need to also do the bedding procedure to bed the pads to the new discs or the pads won’t grip. Again. Just do it.

[LRD414]

While I agree in principle there’s no need to have a go at people for asking questions and trying to understand the equipment in more detail Jeff.

Steve, even with static application you are still getting some wear as the load is taken up onto the shoes because there’s still a little bit of rotation even on a slight hill. Also, the adjustment process is not solely backing off. It is backing off after having an applied torque (hard on) to a specific clearance so there’s neither too little or too much clearance. If yours was nicely within the module’s range of movement then no issues but the adjustment process is the only way to be sure.

Cheers,
Scott

[Turtle60]

Thanks Scott. That’s what I was looking for. This is my first foray in landrover land having had a long list of Toyota’s. I will return to the rear end and double check though. Hosing down up here so good excuse for maintenance.

[101RRS]

In reality the handbrake shoes/drum adjustment on these vehicles is really no different to the very first series 1 brakes - before you remove the drums back off the shoes and remove the drum - put on the new drum and adjust up the shoes until the they just stop the drum turning by hand and then back off only enough so the drum just starts to turn without binding. The only real difference is that you MUST NOT let the EPB actuator activate when it is all apart - Bad Jew Jew if you do.

But Ean is right "if" the brakes are OK at the start and the drum is not worn then the old disk should be able to come off and the new disk go back on if the shoes are not touched. However if the drum is worn and the the system has the shoes adjusted up then when they are in this position the new drum may not go on and the shoes may need slacking off - just like you would have to do on a series 1 if you were putting on a new drum.

The crucial thing is not the adjustment so much but not letting the EPB actuator actuate when it is all apart.

Garry

[Russrobe]

Make sure you have a good rubber mallet. I backed my park back adjuster all the way off and still had to belt the heck out of one of the rears. Not sure if a dozen water crossings had contributed to that or maybe it had just been a long time since they'd been off.

[Ean Austral]

Just do it right? Why not do it properly and know that you have not only replaced the discs but you’re sure the park brake is adjusted correctly. I’m mean with the endless posts of failed park brakes due to over extension, why would you risk it? It’s a simple procedure. Loosen a screw and adjust a nut. It’s literally 5 minutes a side. It’s the difference between being a whinger on here about a screeching park brake and smiling every day.
As Nike say “ Just do it”.
Plus you need to also do the bedding procedure to bed the pads to the new discs or the pads won’t grip. Again. Just do it.

I was more trying to understand the system - Had absolutely nothing to do whinging about something.

I spoke with Justin Cooper on the phone last night an he explained that they are NOT self adjusting which is what threw me out .

Cheers Ean

[Ean Austral]

Hi Ean. Did this whole process just a month or two ago and followed the bible. Great help. But i baulked at the handbrake adjustment too as I figured if the rotor went on with no resistance then I thought why have more play by backing it off. Buttoned it all up and no drama to date. Now I’m worried. In theory I wonder how they can wear as they are only applied stationary and release prior to Taking off. What wears them or the inside of the rotor out? I’m sure someone can help me out here.
Cheers Steve

Gday Steve,

It was explained to me last night that stuff like sand, dirt grit etc gets inside the disc and that cause's the pads to wear as the wheels rotate.

I guess a good clean out with the hose after any extended beach driving or dirt road driving may help.

Cheers Ean

[Turtle60]

Ean, So further researth last night on park brake adjustment and bedding. This from my 5000 page + CD workshop manual. However I’m guessing you know how just queried why but for the benefit of others this is a small extract from the 20 pages dedicated to the electronic park brake.

This procdure is post shoe or rotor replacement.

1. Release hand brake. Adjust brakeshoes till rotor is hand tight, mark the position of the adjusting wheel visible through the the hole ( white out eraser would do) then back the adjuster off ONE full revolution till white mark is in the position it left. Repeat on other side

Parking Brake and Actuation - Parking Brake Shoes Bedding-In
General Procedures
• NOTE: This procedure must be carried out if, new parking brake shoes are fitted, new rear brake discs are fitted or if the vehicle has been mud wading (not water) for more than 50 miles.
1. Carry out the parking brake shoe bedding-in procedure.
2. NOTE: The electronic parking brake 'Service Bedding-in Procedure mode' will be active for the remainder of the igntion cycle, or until the vehicle speed exceeds 31 mph (50 kph). If the procedure needs to be re-entered, the entry actions must be repeated.
To enter 'Service Bedding-in Procedure' mode.
Start and run the engine.
Apply the footbrake 3 times within 10 seconds and hold applied after the 3rd application.
Apply the electronic parking brake switch 4 times, followed by 3 release applications within 10 seconds.
3. Once the Service Bedding-in procedure mode has been entered, the electronic parking brake linings can be bedded-in by conducting 10 repeated stops from 30 - 35 kph (19 - 22 mph), followed by a 500 metre (547 yard) interval between each stop to allow the brakes to cool, using the electronic parking brake control switch.
The electronic parking brake brake force will be increased up to the dynamic maximum so long as the switch is held in the applied position.
If the switch is released to either the NEUTRAL or OFF positions, the electronic parking brake will be released.
The electronic parking brake MUST be allowed to cool between applications, either by driving at 19 mph (30 kph) for 500 metres (547 yards) or remaining stationary for 1 minute between each application.

Should have checked this proper two months ago! My bad.

[Turtle60]

Gday Steve,

It was explained to me last night that stuff like sand, dirt grit etc gets inside the disc and that cause's the pads to wear as the wheels rotate.

I guess a good clean out with the hose after any extended beach driving or dirt road driving may help.

Cheers Ean

Thanks Ean. That totally makes sense.

[101RRS]

he explained that they are NOT self adjusting which is what threw me out .

Cheers Ean

Thats what I cannot understand about these vehicles - why isn't the shoe auto adjusting so that the EPB actuator only has to pull the handbrake on. My Freelander 1 rear brakes were auto adjustment and in nearly 10 years of ownership I never had to do an adjustment at all.

The adjustment of the D3/RRS rear handbrake shoes is almost the same as my 77 101 handbrake shoes and we have moved on a lot from the late 60s when that system was designed to about 2004 when the D3 system was designed.

Garry

[matti4556]

Yes, mud wading will wear the shoes while you drive. My last "adventure" on Moreton Island had my EPB screech at me when I got back to camp one day. Lots of mud wading during the day wore down the shoes enough to start the dreaded screech. Fix was dead easy with simple tools (a flat blade screwdriver and jack) Release park brake, Chock front wheels, jack up one rear side and remove wheel, remove plastic bung from rotor and squirt in the contents of 2 x water bottles to flush out goop. Then tighten adjustment wheel until the rotor is help firm and then back off 6 clicks. Put wheel on and repeat on other side. Start engine and cycle EPB once (it will squeal once) then it will work "like factory" once more. Celebrate with a cold can of your favourite libation. If it can be done in soft sand with basic tools in a camp ground, it can be done anywhere. And Garry is right - its the same as the process for adjusting the brake drums in an S1.
Cheers - Matti
p.s. - you should loosen the 6mm? Hex screw on the backing plate to allow the shoes to centre, but the "bush and the setting sun" doesn't allow that part of the process to evolve in an emergency.