Australia, a third world country.

[drivesafe]

I live up in the Hinterland, above the Gold Coast. On Friday afternoon, during a pretty savage storm, we list power.


By the next morning, we had also lost the NBN, which took out our land line, and the mobile service had gone down as well.


So much for being held to ransom to pay exorbitant power prices and then the same crooks can’t even keep the lights on.


The when we finally got power back on on Saturday after noon, I try contact a company I deal with, to place a late order.


Like me, being a small business, they to week seven days a week.


I finally got through this morning and I thought I had it bad!


Their power went out on Thursday and they only got it back yesterday.


They are in a small NSW central coast town and while their power was out, an electrician, working in their town, fell off a ladder and needed emergence help.


There was no way anybody could contact the outside world, so they had to put him in a private vehicle and drove him 30kms to the nearest Amp centre in Tuncuury, where they were able to radio for help.


The poor guy was taken by helicopter to Newcastle.


He is in an induced coma with two broken wrists ,multiple broken ribs a
punctured lung and head injuries.


I would just like to thank all the politicians who have played a hand in destroying our communication systems and turned us into a third would country.

[LRJim]

Yes it's the government's fault the storm came and killed the power..... It's also Scottys fault the electriction fell off the ladder...

[drivesafe]

We once had land lines that worked, regardless of weather conditions.

The phones no long work WHY?

[goingbush]

We once had land lines that worked, regardless of weather conditions.

The phones no long work WHY?

There is no Battery backup in the NBN Fiber Nodes. So neither internet nor fixed line (POTS) customers have any service. (even if you install the optional battery backup in your premises)

You can blame the Australian Government for that. Also Australia is the Only Country in the world that does not have trace wires with their optic cables .( cost cutting) Makes them impossible for Dial Before You Dig to locate , so expect massive disruptions in the future when an excavator digs up a cable in your vicinity. Its why I got out of the cable locating business , you cant insure against stupidity.

Telstra Mobile towers have a 4-6 hours battery backup at most. But when the PSTN / NBN network is out the extra drain on the limited capacity makes it even worse. There is a emergency external generator connection on mobile towers but if the NBN is out or the other end of microwave link is out that wont help much. Its a shambles.

The old PMG / Telecom copper network had built in redundancy, if a microwave link fell over you would get switched to coax or copper or vice versa . thats all gone now.

[drivesafe]

Telstra Mobile towers have a 4-6 hours battery backup at most.
Optus towers have the exact same limited time of operation, once the power goes out.

[ramblingboy42]

quote..You can blame the Australian Government for that....quote

you can basically blame one member of the Australian Government for that.

Isnt it amazing that one persons dogged principles can hold so many people to ransome?

[Pickles2]

Getting close to C.A. here, not that that bothers me one iota, just good "topical" conversation.
Maybe one can blame the "Government", but certainly, ALL blame does not rest with the current one.
Lots of confusion, lack of foresight, too much "points scoring", on both sides, AFAIAC,.....but, in terms of forum rules, only IMHO of course.
Pickles.

[Graeme]

People who live in small communities would do well to find out if there is a local amateur radio operator. Also, a regular outback traveller may have a satellite phone or HF radio.

[Eevo]

simple fact is redundancy costs money, lots of money.

people want cheaper bills. phone, electricity, etc etc.


to make costs cheaper, companies leave out redundancy.

[drivesafe]

quote..You can blame the Australian Government for that....quote

you can basically blame one member of the Australian Government for that.

Isnt it amazing that one persons dogged principles can hold so many people to ransome?
I have my opinion as to who is responsible but this is not the point now.

The problem is that none of the political factions has any intentions of fixing this ridiculous situation.

All our polititions are guilty of totally ignoring the unsafe state of our joke of a communications system.

[laney]

I think the mods will say this thread is political and will with draw it I believe even if it is its a good talking point things are only going to get worse for us all if we go renewable energy the phones and Internet down will be the least of our problems.

[ramblingboy42]

I didnt realise once the nbn had been connected at home that we could be so vulnerable to loss of communication.

I'm wondering if somehow an emergency contingency system could be put in place.

I have since resurrected an older am transistor radio for that reason and recently have used candles during power outage.

The actual incommunicado flowon is quite high as you cant communicate outwards neither can your friends or loved ones communicate inwards so the problem exascerbates manyfold.

And with the future climate outlook for more intense storms...vis power outages....things don't look like improving.

Your cb radio may be of assistance but has limited range.

Back to the 1950's , no phone , bring out the kero or metho stove and light candles......sounds old but whats the alternative when the system breaks down?

[Graeme]

We elected to retain our copper wire phone connection when going wireless NBN because we didn't want to loose the phone if/when the wireless went down.

[drivesafe]

We didn’t have a choice to keep our old land line.

We were informed that we had to change over to the NBN, and we had a set time period to do so, because the old system is to be turned off.

So we were forced to go from an old, reliable and proven system to crap!

What I cannot understand is why the media is not making a BIG story about the problems the new communication system is suffering from?

[martnH]

Australia has thrid world infrastructure.....

I thought we all know that

Just imagine twenty years later who would want to do business here? Terrible internet (yes I mean NBN) plus "quirky" power supply, still using wooden power poles.

[incisor]

I think the mods will say this thread is political and will with draw it I believe even if it is its a good talking point things are only going to get worse for us all if we go renewable energy the phones and Internet down will be the least of our problems.

at this point it is appears it is still "topical" not 'political" but experience shows us that someone eventually wont be able to help themselves and the mods will be forced to act, sadly

more than happy to let it run while it stays 'topical'

cheers

[incisor]

We didn’t have a choice to keep our old land line.

been my experience that once NBN becomes available they impose a sunset date.




What I cannot understand is why the media is not making a BIG story about the problems the new communication system is suffering from?


because the major player is complicit.

as soon as the NBN was announced for the first trial installs etc the biggest media player in AU headed to the other side of the house, as they promised to 'fix' it as it was obvious that it would imperil many of their products.

we have third world infrastructure and third world laws.

sadly them little green boxes that now litter the neighborhoods need power to work and unless your on the same grid as a local hospital or some other important infrastructure your going to lose communications just like we used to on a regular basis in the bad old days of the copper wire telephone only based system. ask a few old fortitude valley based businesses how long they were offline when things went wrong back then, weeks upon weeks and sometimes months.

while what we have now isn't ideal, to be frank, it is way better than it was even 40 years ago.... when telegrams were as close as you got to instant communications for the vast majority of the population.

IMHO

[bee utey]

Just think, eventually someone will figger out that you can put solar panels on phone towers and also the power pole feeding the little green boxes. Just like country automatic phone exchanges used to be powered. I've still got a few retired Telecom Australia panels feeding my battery bank at home.

[goingbush]

<snip>

while what we have now isn't ideal, to be frank, it is way better than it was even 40 years ago.... when telegrams were as close as you got to instant communications for the vast majority of the population.

IMHO

And that is the truth, How quickly we forget !

When I started in Telecom in 1981 business still had Telex machines which spit out ribbons of punched paper.

[Ancient Mariner]

Telstra for a early xmas pressy terminated our ADSL service friday as we had not joined ABN which has been available for last 18 months (wireless) .Seems if you don't join a NBN service you get to retain your copper phone line ?.As it appears to be a direct link to scammers and FBI will cancel that as well

AM

[jonesfam]

I can not speak for the rest of Australia but out here things have & continue to improve steadily & exponentially.
It was not that many years ago we had no mobile service, now we have 4G. It's not so long ago we had dial up internet that worked occasionally, now we have ADSL & NBN & fibre is on the way. Not that long ago every storm, windy day or heavy rain took out all comms. Now the weather has to be very bad & it's temporary. 3 years ago if it rained more than a heavy shower you could not drive anywhere. Now we have sealed roads all the way to Brisvages (though, why would you want to go there? & it doesn't rain any more!). Medical service continue to improve, Freight improves & almost everything is better.

We still have our issues, the power can be unreliable, a couple a bridges would be good, the airport needs it landing beacon thing up-graded, big storms take a lot of stuff out but we still usually have mobile service & a mechanic in town would be nice.
But, all these things can be worked around. In fact we really are not that isolated any more. A BIG WET will stuff life up for a bit, a Cyclone could wipe us out but in the great scheme of things life continues to improve for most people out here.
Not the same as a city but better than Bangladesh!
Jonesfam
PS Almost no adventure to living here any more.[bigsad]

[V8Ian]

You'll be getting soft Paul, I can remember when a cloudy day would kill all the ewes, in Karumba, CDMA would drop out between there and Normanton and there were no Goldwing or Land Rover dealers in either metropolis.
Tut, tut, tut, bitumen roads:no2: ....could I interest you in a low mileage Kia Carnival? :tease:
Why would you want to come to Brisvegas? [bighmmm] How many ice skating rinks are there in Doomadgee, now? [bigwhistle] And I still have the recipe for coffee. [biggrin]
All the best to you and your tribe for Christmas, mate. [bigsmile1]

[jonesfam]

Ian
You & the people like you are the only reasons I can think of for going South of Cloncurry!

Have a good one to you & yours &
To all AULROians.
(If that's even a word?)

[donh54]

Ian
You & the people like you are the only reasons I can think of for going South of Cloncurry!

Have a good one to you & yours &
To all AULROians.
(If that's even a word?)'Tis now!!
Glad Owen didn’t knock you around [biggrin]
Have a merry one.

[AndyG]

I have to smile when people in Australia complain about third world conditions, harden up and come and live in the back blocks of PNG, on tap water, power,, internet, mobile service i wish, not to mention roads., schools, police or hospital facilities DYI all the way

[PhilipA]

Take a dose of cement you pussies.

When people can afford and buy $1000 vacuum cleaners and $200 toothbrushes the country is not third world.

Australia is the richest country in the World when houshold wealth is considered.

Here many of you drive $100K plus cars and are whinging about your NBN being slow. So you want to pay more tax do you?

Funny my NBN at 11MBps enables me to stream HD video without any buffering. What more do you want?

Try to live in an Indian village about 100Km from Jaipur where the electricity goes off every night at 8PM, no NBN there. The school is the roof of a mud brick house, No refrigeration or TV. No cars . Tractors the only conveyance.
No medical centre and the vet is an 80 year old bloke who has home remedies hanging from the trees.
Now THAT is third World.
Regards Philip A

[goingbush]

Yes Indeed,

Ok so we know what a "Third world Country" is . One never hears of a first or second world country , which is Australia ?

Now in the event of a CME or EMP or other SHTF event, where would you rather be . In a "Developed " country where you carry on like lemmings or zombies in your day to day world dependant on technology & infrastructure, or on a Third World Country and carry on business as usual .

[Fourgearsticks]

Most of Indonesia has better internet and pay less than 5% of what Australians are charged. In western Vic the internet connection is slower and less reliable than villages in Kalimantan without running water or power............................why?

There was a time when "Utilities" included power, water were supplied by Government at a subsidized rate because they were considered essential services.

You know why they charge so much for power and phone services?.......................................Be cause they can.

Free enterprise folks, get used to it, if they consider the market will support extortion, that's what happens.

[RANDLOVER]

Telstra on NT town's naughty list after 11-day blackout costs businesses thousands - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-24/telstra-outage-sees-batchelor-businesses-lose-thousands/10665958)

It's the tiny Northern Territory town that Telstra hung up on in the build up to Christmas.
Key points:

A faulty air-conditioner caused a telecommunications blackout which lasted nearly two weeks
Business owners have been considering launching a class action against Telstra over losses during the period
Telstra says it responded to the situation as best as it could, and businesses will be considered for reimbursement



For 11 days this month the town of Batchelor was left stranded without internet services with businesses reporting thousands of dollars in losses.

[goingbush]

"You can't just pop down to Bunnings to pick up some new bits sometimes for telephone exchanges,"

Bull**** ! The A/C failed at Warranwood exchange in metro Melbourne , and thats exactly what they did. Some Domestic portable A/C units were purchased & positioned through the equipment room, Stayed that way for a few months at least . Same thing in another exchange in the Dandenongs , might have been Monbulk but its been about 10 years now . Probably still like it .

Bottom line is Telstra don't give a rats arse about customers and is why I left.

[Erik68]

There is no Battery backup in the NBN Fiber Nodes. So neither internet nor fixed line (POTS) customers have any service. (even if you install the optional battery backup in your premises)

You can blame the Australian Government for that. Also Australia is the Only Country in the world that does not have trace wires with their optic cables .( cost cutting) Makes them impossible for Dial Before You Dig to locate , so expect massive disruptions in the future when an excavator digs up a cable in your vicinity. Its why I got out of the cable locating business , you cant insure against stupidity.

Telstra Mobile towers have a 4-6 hours battery backup at most. But when the PSTN / NBN network is out the extra drain on the limited capacity makes it even worse. There is a emergency external generator connection on mobile towers but if the NBN is out or the other end of microwave link is out that wont help much. Its a shambles.

The old PMG / Telecom copper network had built in redundancy, if a microwave link fell over you would get switched to coax or copper or vice versa . thats all gone now.Unfortunately some towers have minutes, because of cost cutting they don't replace the batteries . I live in a small Gippsland town,two years ago telstra did some tower maintenance speaking with the technician. Instead of 7 batteries they had one out of date battery that he wasn't allowed to replace (due to cost versus demand ) so we are lucky for 10 minutes.

[weeds]

Pretty sure I read the other week that QLD is rolling out its own network separate to NBN...I’m assuming for business but it might give opportunities for households to tap in.

[Eevo]

Unfortunately some towers have minutes, because of cost cutting they don't replace the batteries . I live in a small Gippsland town,two years ago telstra did some tower maintenance speaking with the technician. Instead of 7 batteries they had one out of date battery that he wasn't allowed to replace (due to cost versus demand ) so we are lucky for 10 minutes.


depends on how important the tower is.
my local tower doesnt have batteries.

my local exchange with tower on top has batteries and genny.

[DiscoMick]

One solution I have heard proposed is that electricity sub-stations be fitted with battery banks to soak up the surplus solar generated during the day and stabilise the network, before being released back into the network as required at night. This could help keep the NBN online for a while.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Pretty sure I read the other week that QLD is rolling out its own network separate to NBN...I’m assuming for business but it might give opportunities for households to tap in.

It appears Maroochydore will soon have a direct feed from offshore,, so Sid in e, WA and Maroochydore.

" The project includes a 550 kilometre undersea fibre optic cable that will connect the Sunshine Coast to the 9,600 kilometre Japan-Guam-Australia-South (JGA-S) submarine cable."

[scarry]

The Govt legislates everything else,so why not legislate that depending on location,the towers must have back up batteries that last so long?

Pretty important in an emergency situation.

[AndyG]

When building my own comms network in PNG, no NBN or Telstra equivalent in my area, i put up a 50m tower with enough solar and battery to last a week of continuous rain, like maybe 200 mm per day *7, never had to use the genset in 5 years. Of course the secret is load. I used efficient PTP devices ( with a range of 30km), but mobile towers are hungry beasts.

But if someone cant fix an A/C in 24 hours, maybe they should work on their resume.

[AndyG]

The Govt legislates everything else,so why not legislate that depending on location,the towers must have back up batteries that last so long?

Pretty important in an emergency situation.Who do you think should pay?
The govt?
The local users?
Other users who dont live in that area
The shareholders who expect a return on their capital

Someone somewhere has to pay

[AndyG]

One solution I have heard proposed is that electricity sub-stations be fitted with battery banks to soak up the surplus solar generated during the day and stabilise the network, before being released back into the network as required at night. This could help keep the NBN online for a while.Why not require the wind farms/solar to store the surplus on their site until needed, why pass the burden to the distributor. And of course without more subsidies

[AndyG]

It appears Maroochydore will soon have a direct feed from offshore,, so Sid in e, WA and Maroochydore.

" The project includes a 550 kilometre undersea fibre optic cable that will connect the Sunshine Coast to the 9,600 kilometre Japan-Guam-Australia-South (JGA-S) submarine cable."Thata a Huwai project, i expect it hss been blocked for security reasons

[scarry]

Who do you think should pay?
The govt?
The local users?
Other users who dont live in that area
The shareholders who expect a return on their capital

Someone somewhere has to pay

Good point.

No idea is the answer to your question as i and most on here would have no idea how these towers or for that matter the whole mobile phone system operates.

Your answer to your own question would be good.[bighmmm]

It was only a suggestion due to safety issues.

If you have ever run a business,you would know the govt legislates things,not giving a rats about who pays or how much it costs.
And many things they legislate that have to be done are an unnecessary and absolute waste of time and money.

But in this instance,involving communication, its pretty important.

I won't go on,with respect to the OP, as i don't want to turn this thread into a political discussion.

[DiscoMick]

Why not require the wind farms/solar to store the surplus on their site until needed, why pass the burden to the distributor. And of course without more subsidiesI was thinking more of surplus solar from houses generated in suburbs being stored locally and then released at night, keeping generation and supply local, so it's less affected by outages in networks and reducing the need to send power over long distances, with losses.

[goingbush]

When I was in the job Telstra had to oblige to something called a Universal Service Obligation, A quick google shows me they still do. None of the other carriers have a mandatory USO , Telstra builds the supposed higher level of service into their price structure but on so many levels fail to meet their USO .

Universal Service Obligation | Department of Communications and the Arts (https://www.communications.gov.au/what-we-do/phone/phone-services/universal-service-obligation)

Telstra - Universal Service Obligation (USO) - Customer Service (https://www.telstra.com.au/consumer-advice/customer-service/universal-service-obligation)

[Eevo]

USO only applied to landline.
and nolonger applies to telstra with the nbn in town.

[AndyG]

Good point.

No idea is the answer to your question as i and most on here would have no idea how these towers or for that matter the whole mobile phone system operates.

Your answer to your own question would be good.[bighmmm]

It was only a suggestion due to safety issues.

If you have ever run a business,you would know the govt legislates things,not giving a rats about who pays or how much it costs.
And many things they legislate that have to be done are an unnecessary and absolute waste of time and money.

But in this instance,involving communication, its pretty important.

I won't go on,with respect to the OP, as i don't want to turn this thread into a political discussion.If the benefit is to be enjoyed by the local users, ie more reliable service, then i would suggest the local user should pay. Maybe because of where i work i have become inured to a user pay environment

[AndyG]

I was thinking more of surplus solar from houses generated in suburbs being stored locally and then released at night, keeping generation and supply local, so it's less affected by outages in networks and reducing the need to send power over long distances, with losses.Putting aside being devils advocate, i was actually thinking the same thing the other day. We have a 315 kva transformer, in our street. The logical place for a reasonable battery pack?. But saying that transformers dont work in reverse? So local grid only at a central location? Or keep the power at home?

[weeds]

Hardly think Australia is third world...

Reliable comms isn’t high on my priority, although I don’t own a business that relies on phone and/or internet 24/7.....

Other than that a lot of the places I camp doesn’t have reception, actually some of my places of work doesn’t have reception but we seem to get by.

[Graeme]

But saying that transformers dont work in reverse?Yes they do and is the reason why household PV systems can export power, although some outer HV configurations have needed re-working to accommodate feed-in from those outer areas to maintain suitable operating voltages.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Thata a Huwai project, i expect it hss been blocked for security reasons

it does seem OZ has a problem with Huwai,,
as for blocked,, no one seems to have told our local Council,,

[AndyG]

it does seem OZ has a problem with Huwai,,
as for blocked,, no one seems to have told our local Council,,



Australia blocks Huawei bid to lay Solomon Islands cables - Computerworld (https://www.computerworld.com.au/article/642368/australia-blocks-huawei-bid-lay-solomon-islands-cables/)
I believe this is part of the same deal, in addition Australia has stopped Huawei doing PNG. Although Huawei is still doing the internal cables to the provinces . Interesting in the last year they have run power cables from Kimbe to Bialla to power up the rural areas. Alas no power to feed in, one day maybe. There is a fourth cable on top that is both lightening arrestor and fibre link, that goes from nowhere to another nowhere, at least nbn plugs into something

[rick130]

it does seem OZ has a problem with Huwai,,
as for blocked,, no one seems to have told our local Council,,All the western intelligence agencies and hence their governments have a problem with them.