Patreon..

[Tins]

If, like me, you contribute to people via Patreon, and you value free speech, you may want to look here.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/FzuIXEB6SUI)
YouTube (https://youtu.be/voO6noMRdS0)
YouTube (https://youtu.be/VvGs5bGwWiM)

YouTube (https://youtu.be/7LaVUvxy2tU)

Of course, some of you don't value free speech. In your case, look away.

I no longer support my creators, and have told them why. I will support then again when another funding platform becomes available.

[Tins]

If, like me, you contribute to people via Patreon, and you value free speech, you may want to look here.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/FzuIXEB6SUI)
YouTube (https://youtu.be/voO6noMRdS0)
YouTube (https://youtu.be/VvGs5bGwWiM)

YouTube (https://youtu.be/7LaVUvxy2tU)

Of course, some of you don't value free speech. In your case, look away.

I no longer support my creators, and have told them why. I will support then again when another funding platform becomes available.

More: YouTube (https://youtu.be/RteQJDq9ynk)

[Homestar]

I always find it funny that people bag out YouTube - which is putting the food on the their tables by allowing them to earn a dollar (or millions in some cases) as content creators. If YouTube isn’t making money how is it supposed to pay the creators? All this stuff about the adpocalypse, etc to other year amazed me to be honest. A huge company being greedy wanting to make a dollar - who’d have thunk it.... Use them or don’t, it’s the creators choice.

Patreon is again a Private company that takes its chuck and allows creators to have a source of revenue but they’re the bad guys because they ditch a few people. The Patreon T’s and C’s actually say they can discontinue your account at no notice.

I get that people are complaining about ‘free speach’ but I don’t watch anything political, etc on YouTube - just entertainment for me, so I’ll continue to support the creators I like by Patreon sorry.

There are plenty of other smaller places to upload content that YouTube won’t accept - they just need to go find their new audience there. Assuming that these people have things like Twitter and Facebook that their subscribers would no doubt follow, I doubt it would be too hard to let their subscribers know where they would be continuing their work.

As for the person being discussed in these videos - Carl something or other - I’ve never heard of him and no idea which side of the fence he sits but guessing we won’t be discussing this in General Chat.

[rangieman]

So it`s not all doom and gloom :Thump:
I thought the sky was going to cave in :whistling:

[Disco-tastic]

December 2018 Benjamin was the object of a widely-publicized controversy, when he was banned from*Patreon*for violating the site's terms of service by using "racial and homophobic slurs to degrade another individual".[3]

I found the above on wikipedia.

If he has indeed violated the sites terms of service then why is this an issue?

[Homestar]

Not sure to be honest. Probably only an issue to some because he lost a ton of money in the process? These people that bleat about Youtube and Patreon being so bad are the ones making money from them which seems arse about to me - don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[donh54]

Not sure to be honest. Probably only an issue to some because he lost a ton of money in the process? These people that bleat about Youtube and Patreon being so bad are the ones making money from them which seems arse about to me - don't bite the hand that feeds you.

What about when the hand that feeds you suddenly appears with an empty plate? (The plate has actually been filled with fodder freely give by others specifically for you) Then explains that the plate is empty because "The Hand" didn't agree with something you said!

But it's not so bad - you can always appeal the decision. Like a lot of these things, even a successful appeal will not repair all of the damage done.

Just. A. Bit. More. Of. The. Wedge!

[goingbush]

Its beyond me how anyone can make a living from youtube content.

my most popular video had 44,000 views , and my website has 313,000 hits , I was getting $100 about once every 2 years from google ads + youtube.

Youtube had disconnected my monetilisation from my videos for some reason, I did't bother reading the email they sent, I don't even bother opening my gmail, Its better without ads anyway .

I also donate to a few sites via patreon but don't want to pull the rug from under them.

[Homestar]

What about when the hand that feeds you suddenly appears with an empty plate? (The plate has actually been filled with fodder freely give by others specifically for you) Then explains that the plate is empty because "The Hand" didn't agree with something you said!

But it's not so bad - you can always appeal the decision. Like a lot of these things, even a successful appeal will not repair all of the damage done.

Just. A. Bit. More. Of. The. Wedge!

We all have to abide by the rules the feeding hands make up or they too will cut you off. I know at work if I did something to breach the companies policies or procedures I’d be out on my ear - no different to YouTube and Patreon - follow the rules or find another job - pretty simple really.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Its beyond me how anyone can make a living from youtube content.

my most popular video had 44,000 views , and my website has 313,000 hits , I was getting $100 about once every 2 years from google ads + youtube.

Youtube had disconnected my monetilisation from my videos for some reason, I did't bother reading the email they sent, I don't even bother opening my gmail, Its better without ads anyway .

I also donate to a few sites via patreon but don't want to pull the rug from under them.

maybe not news to you,, but--
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8F4jrtZtNE)

Linus gets ONE MILLION views per day on a goodly amount of his vids,,
and he posts on average one a day,,

[goingbush]

maybe not news to you,, but--
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8F4jrtZtNE)

Linus gets ONE MILLION views per day on a goodly amount of his vids,,
and he posts on average one a day,,

Never heard of him, but it certainly works for him.
Don't know about a million a day, but one extra view from me makes that one 509,056 since Dec 7.
I'll get back into my closet now.

[Homestar]

Never heard of him, but it certainly works for him.

Don't know about a million a day, but one extra view from me makes that one 509,056 since Dec 7.
I'll get back into my closet now.

The linked vid was from one of his secondary channels. His latest from Linus Tech Tips - over 700,000 views in 12 hours -
https://youtu.be/2jsqZMCPJts

And yesterday’s vid is over 1.1 million now -

https://youtu.be/sCuKuUgNfjA

Between Linus Tech Tips, Tech Linked and Tech Quicky he’d get well over a million views a day. Not much on Linus Cat Tips recently though... 👍😉

This guy really knows how to play the game and has made a small media empire. And all his videos are sponsored so he gets revenue from a multitude of sponsors too. Smart man, good content, big dollars. 👍😊

[Pedro_The_Swift]

must admit I dont visit the cat one often..... [bighmmm]

[Tins]

As for the person being discussed in these videos - Carl something or other - I’ve never heard of him and no idea which side of the fence he sits but guessing we won’t be discussing this in General Chat.

And I guess you missed the point. This about far more than Carl Benjamin, Gav. This is about Patreon, PayPal and MasterCard censoring the internet so that only those who's opinions comply will have a platform. And it goes far, far more deeply than that. Silencing opinions that you disagree with is tantamount to totalitarianism. The only way humanity can evolve is through free debate about ideas. Anything else is Orwellian. I suggest that you read 1984.

[grey_ghost]

I’ve just put my tin foil hat on. You can never be too careful.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

rather,, a thirst for the almighty dollar.

[pop058]

And I guess you missed the point. This about far more than Carl Benjamin, Gav. This is about Patreon, PayPal and MasterCard censoring the internet so that only those who's opinions comply will have a platform. And it goes far, far more deeply than that. Silencing opinions that you disagree with is tantamount to totalitarianism. The only way humanity can evolve is through free debate about ideas. Anything else is Orwellian. I suggest that you read 1984.

Until they pay [thumbsupbig]



rather,, a thirst for the almighty dollar.

Yep


I’ve just put my tin foil hat on. You can never be too careful.

This is a good idea. [biggrin]

[Homestar]

And I guess you missed the point. This about far more than Carl Benjamin, Gav. This is about Patreon, PayPal and MasterCard censoring the internet so that only those who's opinions comply will have a platform. And it goes far, far more deeply than that. Silencing opinions that you disagree with is tantamount to totalitarianism. The only way humanity can evolve is through free debate about ideas. Anything else is Orwellian. I suggest that you read 1984.

Sorry but haven’t missed the point at all. The internet is free and open - commercial entities there to make money and protest their investments aren’t. You talk like YouTube, Patreon, PayPal, etc are there to provide platforms for free speach - they simply don’t and thinking they do is a problem in the first place. They are Dictatorships pure and simple. There to make as much money as they can and still get away with it - like all big business. Play by their rules or play elsewhere - pretty simple IMO. Banning people to protect their revenue stream is good business if you look at it from there point of view - why allow someone on your platform that advertisers will balk at and start holding their money back - that’s what makes no sense. I think there’ll be plenty more to suffer the same fate to be honest and I have zero issues with that.

Youtube was started to allow people to upload stuff then done as entertainment. If others have got a decent run out of doing other stuff, then good on them, but it still exists primarily as an entertainment platform - If you’re getting all your news and views from YouTube to start with and think this is the only way someone can get their point across, then maybe it’s you that’s missed the point. These people are bleating because they are losing money, pure and simple not because they think that Youtube is the only Platform to get their (often extreme and marginal) views across to others.

[Tins]

Sorry but haven’t missed the point at all. The internet is free and open - commercial entities there to make money and protest their investments aren’t.

You have to be kidding, Gav. The site you are posting on is not free and OPEN. Sure, Dave needs his $$, and we all accept that, but open? Give me a break. We are censored because what we say 'might' hurt advertisers.


You talk like YouTube, Patreon, PayPal, etc are there to provide platforms for free speach

Totally wrong interpretation of what I was saying. Patreon provides a paid platform for people, maybe like you, to get funding for your posted opinions, or stories, or whatever. One of those people would be, in my case, Andrew St Pierre White. Some on here support Mike at Brittanica Restorations, a brilliant LR channel IMV. What you missed, as so many people did, was that the guy they punted, the guy with a channel so huge that God would be jealous, got punted, his income basically destroyed, because he said something on someone else's channel 10 months prior. Patreon's CEO said explicitelly that other channels were not in their purview. How does that make ASPW feel? Or Mike? Patreon sold all their creators out, Gav. That is why I posted what I did. I need to add that maybe, just, that it isn't just about Patreon, or PayPal. MasterCard are maybe involved as well. Heaven forbid. Maybe Dave will tell us.



- they simply don’t and thinking they do is a problem in the first place. They are Dictatorships pure and simple. There to make as much money as they can and still get away with it - like all big business. Play by their rules or play elsewhere - pretty simple IMO. Banning people to protect their revenue stream is good business if you look at it from there point of view - why allow someone on your platform that advertisers will balk at and start holding their money back - that’s what makes no sense. I think there’ll be plenty more to suffer the same fate to be honest and I have zero issues with that.

Didn't you start with the "Internet is free and open" argument"?

I agree with the 'dictatorship' thing. A recent speech by Apple's CEO sent shivers down my spine, and I am an Apple man.


Youtube was started to allow people to upload stuff then done as entertainment. If others have got a decent run out of doing other stuff, then good on them, but it still exists primarily as an entertainment platform - If you’re getting all your news and views from YouTube to start with and think this is the only way someone can get their point across, then maybe it’s you that’s missed the point. These people are bleating because they are losing money, pure and simple not because they think that Youtube is the only Platform to get their (often extreme and marginal) views across to others.


Youtube was started to allow people to upload stuff then done as entertainment. If others have got a decent run out of doing other stuff, then good on them, but it still exists primarily as an entertainment platform

Oh please. The most used search engine on earth is Google. The second? Well, that would be YouTube. Entertainment? Massive $$$ for Alphabet, with nearly all internet queries about how to fix stuff winding up there. I have no problem with that, I guess, but I sure wish Google didn't own it. YouTube does NOT exist for entertainment. It's end users think so, but they are wrong. Lotsa $$$ for Alphabet.

It matters not why YouTube was started, Gav. That YouTube no longer exists. YouTube was bought by Google more than ten years ago. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but your "subscribed" videos no longer arrive in chronological order. Google now presents them in the order they "think" you want. Defending Google makes no sense, unless it affects your bottom line.


their (often extreme and marginal) views across to others.

According to who? Are only people who agree with, for example, you, to be allowed access to the internet, or internet funding? I'm not sure you have thought this through. Censorship of those you don't like was dealt with by George Orwell, amongst others.

Something needs to be said here. I do NOT support all the views expressed by those people I linked to. In fact, I hate some views expressed by Carl Benjamin. However, I despise any attempt to prevent him, or anyone else, from expressing them.

If you are interested, I suggest you look at the links I posted, and the thousands of others around. If you are NOT interested, look away.

[Homestar]

You have to be kidding, Gav. The site you are posting on is not free and OPEN. Sure, Dave needs his $$, and we all accept that, but open? Give me a break. We are censored because what we say 'might' hurt advertisers.



Totally wrong interpretation of what I was saying. Patreon provides a paid platform for people, maybe like you, to get funding for your posted opinions, or stories, or whatever. One of those people would be, in my case, Andrew St Pierre White. Some on here support Mike at Brittanica Restorations, a brilliant LR channel IMV. What you missed, as so many people did, was that the guy they punted, the guy with a channel so huge that God would be jealous, got punted, his income basically destroyed, because he said something on someone else's channel 10 months prior. Patreon's CEO said explicitelly that other channels were not in their purview. How does that make ASPW feel? Or Mike? Patreon sold all their creators out, Gav. That is why I posted what I did. I need to add that maybe, just, that it isn't just about Patreon, or PayPal. MasterCard are maybe involved as well. Heaven forbid. Maybe Dave will tell us.




Didn't you start with the "Internet is free and open" argument"?

I agree with the 'dictatorship' thing. A recent speech by Apple's CEO sent shivers down my spine, and I am an Apple man.





Oh please. The most used search engine on earth is Google. The second? Well, that would be YouTube. Entertainment? Massive $$$ for Alphabet, with nearly all internet queries about how to fix stuff winding up there. I have no problem with that, I guess, but I sure wish Google didn't own it. YouTube does NOT exist for entertainment. It's end users think so, but they are wrong. Lotsa $$$ for Alphabet.

It matters not why YouTube was started, Gav. That YouTube no longer exists. YouTube was bought by Google more than ten years ago. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but your "subscribed" videos no longer arrive in chronological order. Google now presents them in the order they "think" you want. Defending Google makes no sense, unless it affects your bottom line.



According to who? Are only people who agree with, for example, you, to be allowed access to the internet, or internet funding? I'm not sure you have thought this through. Censorship of those you don't like was dealt with by George Orwell, amongst others.

Something needs to be said here. I do NOT support all the views expressed by those people I linked to. In fact, I hate some views expressed by Carl Benjamin. However, I despise any attempt to prevent him, or anyone else, from expressing them.

If you are interested, I suggest you look at the links I posted, and the thousands of others around. If you are NOT interested, look away.

I said the internet is free and open, not specific sites like YouTube or AULRO - want to pedal your own point that no one else will allow - there are places to do that, Youtube isn’t one.

If people use Youtube as a search engine and expect balanced views from both the extreme left all the way to the extreme right with everything in between, they are looking in the wrong place.

We can agree to disagree mate, no problems there, but the whole premise of saying that it is wrong for a commercial entity to do what they please because of ‘free speach’ is just plain wrong IMO - they can do what they damn well please - like it or not. If you don’t, go start your own platform somewhere, build it in a way that brings in millions of people and go nuts - there’s nothing stopping anyone doing that - oh wait there is - the advertisers you’d need to make the place a success in the first place.

As for who views some of these as extreme and marginal - the advertisers, Youtube and Patreon for a start. Probably me too - the 3 minutes of drivel that I watched certainly made me think of him that way.

I think the whole fantasy of ‘free speach’ probably deserves its own topic, but we’d need to discuss that in CA I should think. Anyway - in Australia I don't think we even have that right under our own legislation to be honest.

The sooner we accept Google and China as the new world order, the better off we’ll all be. 回头见. 😇

[incisor]

if you wish to 'fund" a site so that it pays for itself you need to use advertising, as subscriptions and donations rarely, if ever, provide enough capitol once you reach a certain momentum and size.

the model certainly works for small sites but is not sustainable in the long term in most cases.

it's something i know a little about...

once you decide you need to go that route, you need to work out what platform(s) you wish to use.

you have limited choices to pick from in the marketplace if you want a return that will carry you forward

Google (Adsense), Yahoo (Media.net), are the biggest players by a country mile.

Most other players are resellers of the above, but there are definitely some that don't

to be accepted by any of these mobs you have to agree to their terms and conditions.

there are many of them that will only pay you via PayPal.

that means you have other terms and conditions you need to consider. as well as risks from using that particular platform.

Google pay directly into your bank account.

Any site using Adsense advertising needs to be very vigilant as they tend to be on the ball and you lose funding if any page of content you display is outside of their T & C's.

One of their basic conditions is that the content must be pretty much suitable for general viewing and must not contain violence, assault, incitement, overt sexuality, and not showing people being injured etc.

I use Adsense on this site, because the site has always been run on the premise of being G rated which pretty much suits the Adsense model at the end of the day.

I also use Media.net, again because their model aligns with the G rating this place runs on.

I offer payment options that include PayPal. I have never had that company impose any content regulation or rules on my operations.

I personally don't like them as they are a rule unto themselves and on occasion don't even follow their own policies but all the issues are money related, not content.

I am not aware of any policy by any of the above players that has a direct political bias.

the other somewhat contentious issue i cop a lot of flack over on this site is the no name and shame rule.

it has always been a part of this site and always will be because i simply cannot afford the insurance premiums necessary to be able to allow that sort of behavior

this site does what it can to provide a viable platform for both users and vendors

not an easytask at times when either or both go rogue but we do our best to ensure that everyone plays by the same rules.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

and a sign of things to come?
from a rather big utube content provider..
Where has Luke been? - Call for Coders 2017 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvQH8b1g3Yw)