D4 Gearbox rebuild

[Discotheque]

G’day - would appreciate any advice on my pending D4 gearbox rebuild that I found out about yesterday... not a great new year’s gift to receive.

I’ve loved my 2010 D4 2.7L TDV6 since I bought her from the original owner in late 2017 with 150k on clock. He was fastidious and had major services done at Graeme Cooper in Sydney so has a great pedigree.

Car now has 163k and I was towing an empty trailer on New Year’s Eve along the Hume Highway when the ‘Gearbox fault’ error message came up on the dashboard. Car went into limp mode and after leaving overnight the error message went off. I didn’t want to take any chances so took her into see Stuart at Graeme Cooper yesterday (he’s terrific) and after running some diagnostics, called me back later in the day with the bad news - gearbox input/output revolution speeds weren’t syncing at the right ratios and it will require a gearbox rebuild. I think it’s going to ATA in Alexandria on Monday and looking like $6k+, out for a few weeks.

I know it could happen to anyone and I’m just unlucky, however given it’s such a huge expense does anyone have any advice or thoughts from previous experience with a similar issue?

Cheers,
Alex

[shanegtr]

When i had my trans rebuilt it was $4300 for zf to do the rebuild, then the removal/replace and frieght ontop of that

[101RRS]

It seems odd that you get just one message and then told you need a rebuild - normally you get a bit of advance warning with these gearboxes.

I am not saying that the diagnosis you have got is wrong but given the cost I think I would be getting a second opinion.

Garry

[Eric SDV6SE]

Would be of interest to get the fault codes out of the 'box to see what's going on.

For that sort of money, you should also be getting the valve body rebuilt/replaced, this is where the error codes will really help.

I've had the same general fault message and limp mode etc. Turns out the valve body needed servicing, did it myself, cost about 1300 in parts and fluids I replaced all solenoids and put a Sonnax Zip Kit through it.

Hope this helps

[Discotheque]

Thanks v much, Eric, appreciate the advice. Have confirmed with the mechanic that the price includes a new valve body and mechatronics unit, all covered in the price. Have also asked for the fault codes for my records which I'll share here when I receive them.

Will let you know how it all goes.

Cheers,
Alex


Would be of interest to get the fault codes out of the 'box to see what's going on.

For that sort of money, you should also be getting the valve body rebuilt/replaced, this is where the error codes will really help.

I've had the same general fault message and limp mode etc. Turns out the valve body needed servicing, did it myself, cost about 1300 in parts and fluids I replaced all solenoids and put a Sonnax Zip Kit through it.

Hope this helps

[Matty_P]

When i had my trans rebuilt it was $4300 for zf to do the rebuild, then the removal/replace and frieght ontop of that

$4,500 for my ZF rebuild a few months ago but that included removal / fitting rebuilt valve body etc.. happy with the results

[DiscoJeffster]

I’m taking Eric’s lead and doing a valve body refresh before I get any box errors and cause box wear. 260k km. Going to:
- Install Sonnax Zip kit
- New solenoids
- New Mechatronic seals
- 20L of ZF fluid for a complete flush.

The plan is that by doing this it will protect the other elements of the gearbox that get damaged when not effectively controlled by the valve body. It won’t be as effective as a full rebuild but hopefully enough for my needs.

[Graeme]

I’m taking Eric’s lead and doing a valve body refresh before I get any box errors and cause box wear. 260k km.I suspect that this will be a waste of money if the renowned stator bushes are near the end of their life then the gbox is rebuilt by ZF.

[Melbourne Park]

Sorry to hear you've had a failure, good luck with everything.

The Landrover Club in Victoria had a meeting at A&B Automotive in Dandenong Sth, Victoria, in February 2017, which I attended. I called A&B last year about a service for my D4 8 speed, and they said wait until 70k. I also tow an off road van, its GVM is 2.4 tonne - AOR Matrix - typical tow weight is maybe 2.1 t, my tow mileage is maybe only 8k, mostly on bitumen. I was impressed by A&B's ZF "factory only" hardware and also their expertise. They do ZF rebuilds for car makers who use ZF gearboxes, but there is someone else in Australia who also does them I think, which makes sense, but A&B do get interstate gearboxes. But its worth a call to check with them on your options I reckon, just to check on all your angles, a phone call doesn't take long.

I queried my dealer after my service a few weeks ago - my 2014 has 67 k on it now ... they said their cost for a service on the gearbox was $2,300!!! A&B said I think $900 about a year ago, and a discount off too for being a Club member.

I would like to source a metal gearbox base instead of the standard LR 8 speed plastic one too - anyone know the best source to get one? I am intending on servicing the gearbox in the next couple of months. Incidentally the A&B people said the 8 speed super reliable, but gearboxes do need fresh oil many times more than the manufacturers recommend, which really, is quite criminal IMO that LR and BMW etc say after 200k.

[rar110]

I suspect that this will be a waste of money if the renowned stator bushes are near the end of their life then the gbox is rebuilt by ZF.

Graeme, how often should the lead free stator bush plagued transmissions be flushed?

[DiscoJeffster]

I suspect that this will be a waste of money if the renowned stator bushes are near the end of their life then the gbox is rebuilt by ZF.

While I agree it can’t save the bushes, it will provide better control of the clutches and the change process which in itself saves wear on other components. At least this way when I get an E-clutch failure I’ll know it’s related to the clutch itself and not the valve body. At least it’ll drive nicer until it fails [emoji6]

[Graeme]

Graeme, how often should the lead free stator bush plagued transmissions be flushed?
Someone here, IIRC BobD, has his MY10's oil changed frequently, possibly around 60K kms, and has avoided any problems with quite high kms travelled.

[DiscoJeffster]

Someone here, IIRC BobD, has his MY10's oil changed frequently, possibly around 60K kms, and has avoided any problems with quite high kms travelled.

Mine was first fluid changed at 210k km (when I took ownership) and has had annual part flushes each year since (four now). My box is happy other than the shifts can be a little harsh in the morning. My vehicle has done next to no towing in its life and spend a lot of its time travelling between Perth and Northam each day (country driving) and so has had a pretty easy life, unlike those that have towed 3T trailers a lot. I think that’s why it’s now 265k km and not showing any issues unlike some that don’t make half that. Off to touch some wood.

[Graeme]

My MY10 3.0 D4 had its first oil and filter change after 120K of oil and clutch nursing usage then 5K kms later spat the dummy, requiring a rebuild due to stator shaft bushes not holding pressure. Within 2K kms of the first failure the vehicle became almost undriveable above 80 kph.

[DiscoJeffster]

My MY10 3.0 D4 had its first oil and filter change after 120K of oil and clutch nursing usage then 5K kms later spat the dummy, requiring a rebuild due to stator shaft bushes not holding pressure. Within 2K kms of the first failure the vehicle became almost undriveable above 80 kph.

How much towing had it done in that 120k km?

[Graeme]

Very little towing of a 1200kg older van and occasional box trailer towing.

I shunned TC slip, regularly up-shifting to stop TC slip of lower gears and generally gave the gearbox a very gentle time. At the fluid and filter change the old oil was absolutely clear, as I had hoped.

I dropped 3L from the pan of my 8-speed yesterday. It was quite dark for 90K kms although no burnt smell. The gearing in my L322 is very high and its programmed to slip the TC holding 2000 rpm just to get rolling and at many other times too. At least the rebuilt 6-speed with its updated TC was lovely to drive, much better than this 8-speed.

[scarry]

Just had my 6 speed oil and pan done at 65K,and the oil looked only slightly darker than the new.

Minimal towing,but around 7 yrs old.

[TerryO]

$4,500 for my ZF rebuild a few months ago but that included removal / fitting rebuilt valve body etc.. happy with the results

Hi Matty,

who did your rebuild in Brisbane, if you don’t mind me asking. My D3 auto needs a rebuild and prices I’m getting quoted down here on the Gold Coast are scary.

[BobD]

Someone here, IIRC BobD, has his MY10's oil changed frequently, possibly around 60K kms, and has avoided any problems with quite high kms travelled.

As Graeme said my 2010 transmission has had no issues at all and is now over 285,000km. I have changed the transmission oil about once every 18 months after the first change at around 60,000km. My car does a lot of long distance touring on rough roads towing a 2.2t Kimberley Karavan most of the time in the last few years. The transmission was running quite hot so I reckoned frequent oil changes were essential. I have just had a new radiator fitted so the temps should be a bit lower now but the transmission still runs pretty hot when towing.

The trans runs much hotter in the D4 than the 8 speed in my RRV, doing the same job. The electric fans on the RRV TDV6 cut in earlier and stronger than the D4 viscous fan which doesn't fully lock until about 109 degrees, at which time the coolant is all hot and the transmission is not getting enough cooling. This is easy to achieve when towing up hill. The temperature gauge doesn't start moving from the mid point until around 112 degrees so you haven't got any warning that the trans oil is pretty hot, thus reducing long term reliability of the transmission, even though the transmission does not need to protect itself at these temperatures.

The negative is that I could probably have rebuilt the gear box with the amount I have spent on services over the years. The D4 has now been relegated to light work and the harder core off road driving without the van while the RRV does the touring and towing. Hopefully that will mean that I won't need to rebuild the D4 trans for some time, especially since it still works like new.

[Matty_P]

Hi Matty,

who did your rebuild in Brisbane, if you don’t mind me asking. My D3 auto needs a rebuild and prices I’m getting quoted down here on the Gold Coast are scary.

Hi TerryO,

Transmission Centre at Underwood....great blokes they rebuild ZF boxes for many different cars LR, BMW etc.

They send the valve body to a guy in SEQ that is 1of 2 people that can do them nationally.

Box has run really nice since since Oct 2108 rebuild.

Matt

[Eric SDV6SE]

Hi TerryO,

Transmission Centre at Underwood....great blokes they rebuild ZF boxes for many different cars LR, BMW etc.

They send the valve body to a guy in SEQ that is 1of 2 people that can do them nationally.

Box has run really nice since since Oct 2108 rebuild.

Matt
Did my ZF 6HP28X valve body myself in my garage, does that make me 1 of 3?

[Matty_P]

Did my ZF 6HP28X valve body myself in my garage, does that make me 1 of 3?

Unless you are the other 2 of 2 bloke?.....they guy there said there is a lot of work to do them properly, can only go by what he said.

[smilebigeye]

[DiscoJeffster]

Unless you are the other 2 of 2 bloke?.....they guy there said there is a lot of work to do them properly, can only go by what he said.

[smilebigeye]

So it’s true that if you have deep wear and leakage, then in some cases you will need to ream elements of the valve block and use oversized components. The tools required are purchasable from Sonnax however it would be unlikely to be economical to buy the valve block mounting tools to be used with the reamers for a single rebuild, plus the vacuum testing equipment.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Unless you are the other 2 of 2 bloke?.....they guy there said there is a lot of work to do them properly, can only go by what he said.

[smilebigeye]

Nope, just followed the instructions with the zip gen2 kit and the ZF transmission manuals on the web. Watched several YT vids to get my head around it.

Sonnax out of the US (the Zip Kit manufacturers) also has a good source of info.

No special tools required either. Just got to keep everything clean. I used liberal amounts of cling wrap after each stage of disassembly and reassembly.

It was not that hard actually, the real benefit is that most components only fit one way, and if you take the time and care to note where everything goes, you can't really go wrong.

[Plane Fixer]

Hi TerryO,

Transmission Centre at Underwood....great blokes they rebuild ZF boxes for many different cars LR, BMW etc.

They send the valve body to a guy in SEQ that is 1of 2 people that can do them nationally.

Box has run really nice since since Oct 2108 rebuild.

Matt

Matty, Nice to know that they will run for another century with your 2108 rebuild[smilebigeye][smilebigeye]

[Matty_P]

Matty, Nice to know that they will run for another century with your 2108 rebuild[smilebigeye][smilebigeye]

Yep 90 year warranty...[smilebigeye]