1990 RRC A/C...What to do...

[CSK]

Hi all,

I have a 1990 3.9L RRC here. Every few years I have been getting an A/C re-gas with R12.

A/C no longer blowing cold so time for a closer look.


This time I want to go through and repair possible leaks etc. Where are the common leak spots for these?

Also, is there anything worth upgrading while I am at it that would increase performance?

I know the Hychill is a popular replacement for R12 on these forums but I don't know if any auto A/C guys down here in NZ use it.


Thanks heaps.

[4bee]

Where are the common leak spots for these?


Worn Compressor Shaft seals are always a good place start looking for leaks.

Sometimes it can be the wear faces &/or rubber component. Comp out to sort it usually.

I know nothing about Hychill that you mention as it is after my time on the tools. R12 & R22 yes, but no use to you.

Having said that I still have a full 17kg drum of R22 that I retired with & I'm told it can be worth "2 million $" [biggrin] but as it can't be used without Audits etc there ain't no point in keeping it.[biggrin]

Archived R22 info from 2013

R22 refrigerant cost $$$!!! - Air con - Home (https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2039506)

[DoubleChevron]

Call me lazy ... but if its lasting 3 years between re gasses (thats one tiny leak!) I'd be just throwing a shot of bang gas in it.... You will probably find it lasts even longer as the stuff seems to leak less.

seeya,
Shane L.

[bee utey]

New hoses are never a bad idea, older hoses often leak at the crimps. Then a new upgraded compressor like a Sanden SD7H15 wouldn't be a mistake.

[aussiebushman]

The other respondents here are right - I have had to repair the aircon in several Rangies and all turned out to be leaking seals or hoses and none are a major problem for a qualified service shop that will test the system with dye to determine the source of leaks, then recover any residual gas from the system before doing anything else.

Even compressor seals can be replaced unless the unit is too far gone and good second hand compressors are generally available . Regardless, the cost is not trivial - expect a bill of around $500 to do the job properly.

Hi-Chill runs at a lower pressure than other aircon gasses so it may save replacement of some of the hoses - especially those running into the cabin that are a PITA to get at and therefore costly to replace due to the time taken. This was the solution in my 93 Vogue SE and it saved a lot of money. The "purists" may argue that Hi-Chill is not an "approved" gas and one shop actually said it was illegal (not true). Cooling performance is excellent.

I strongly advise NOT trying to have your system re-gassed with the old R12 - that IS illegal

[PhilipA]

My Hichill has been in 4 years in my 2002D2 Td5 auto.
It still cools well.
I have been wondering whether I should contact the Coastal Cool Air bloke re a top up as last I heard he was wanting to become a financial advisor. LOL. Probably not now due to the mandatory education requirements which my son has just completed.

Regards Philip A

[CSK]

New hoses are never a bad idea, older hoses often leak at the crimps. Then a new upgraded compressor like a Sanden SD7H15 wouldn't be a mistake.


Thanks for the advice. I just googled the compressor you recommended which looks to be an R134a version of the Sanden SD-709 which I currently have.

There is also a Sanden Enhanced SD7, basically an upgraded version of the compressor you quoted me with 15-20% more cooling capacity but same dimensions. Do you think the upgrade would lead to better performance in the real world?

[CSK]

Thank you to everyone for their input.

I know people do not think much of the hard dash A/C, what were the limitations of it other than being an afterthought?

Are there any components which can be upgraded? Bigger evaporator maybe?

[aussiebushman]

Thank you to everyone for their input.

I know people do not think much of the hard dash A/C, what were the limitations of it other than being an afterthought?

Are there any components which can be upgraded? Bigger evaporator maybe?

My 1991 Hi-Line has the R 134a system and although I concede it is not as effective as some fitted to other makes of vehicle, I have absolutely no complaint.

I drove to Goulburn and back last Friday in 38 degree heat with the aircon set to the coldest position and the fan on II and it was a totally comfortable trip. It is the air distribution that is the main problem on the Classics so back seat passengers do not get as much cold air as would be preferable. (The air distribution was much improved in the P38).

I suspect you could spend a large amount of money on an upgraded compressor and condenser for very little improvement (others may disagree). My advice would be to get the system checked thoroughly for leaks, ensure the compressor is working effectively, install a new drier and get it filled with Hi-Chill if you can find someone to supply it.

[Blknight.aus]

if you upgrade the condenser upgrade the compressor.

you can wrangle some of the advantages of a larger condensor by fitting a larger reciever drier or 2 reciver driers in sequence. its cheaper and gives you a larger liquid capacity in the system which means you can make more use of the evaporator.

Its a bit of guesswork to tweak it just right and is easier to do with a larger condenser.

its also easier to get the evaporator freezing up.

[gavinwibrow]

if you upgrade the condenser upgrade the compressor.

you can wrangle some of the advantages of a larger condensor by fitting a larger reciever drier or 2 reciver driers in sequence. its cheaper and gives you a larger liquid capacity in the system which means you can make more use of the evaporator.

Its a bit of guesswork to tweak it just right and is easier to do with a larger condenser.

its also easier to get the evaporator freezing up.


HiChill lover, hater, or on the fence? always interested in your opinions/feedback.

[aussiebushman]

My Hichill has been in 4 years in my 2002D2 Td5 auto.
It still cools well.
I have been wondering whether I should contact the Coastal Cool Air bloke re a top up as last I heard he was wanting to become a financial advisor. LOL. Probably not now due to the mandatory education requirements which my son has just completed.

Regards Philip A

Can't help you in Sydney but if you fancy a drive to Goulburn, Lee & Thomas did mine in the 93 SE. Dave is the workshop manager and is very helpful.

Alan

[DoubleChevron]

DYI ... non professional use ... I've been using hychill for about 15years.... Brilliant! Be very careful decanting it. Remember your playing with an LPG blend ... "BANG" is what you'll get if you unplug a service port near an ignition source (eg: dizzie). I have a friend that has done this :o

seeya,
Shaen L.

[gavinwibrow]

DYI ... non professional use ... I've been using hychill for about 15years.... Brilliant! Be very careful decanting it. Remember your playing with an LPG blend ... "BANG" is what you'll get if you unplug a service port near an ignition source (eg: dizzie). I have a friend that has done this :o

seeya,
Shaen L.


In my case, could be ok with a TD5?

[DoubleChevron]

In my case, could be ok with a TD5?

I hope your not asking me .... Its great asking someone that has no idea and is unqualified .... I'd do it no worries. A/C is A/C .... doesn't matter what car it is in. you have a pump, evap, condenser .... the stuff flows around in circles making heat. What more could you want :)

The only thing that would concern me is making sure the compressor isn't containing an electric motor if its an electrical vehicle (I wouldn't want to mix sparks with bang gas, not matter how well isolated they are).

[PhilipA]

The only thing that would concern me is making sure the compressor isn't containing an electric motor if its an electrical vehicle (I wouldn't want to mix sparks with bang gas, not matter how well isolated they are)





You had better get rid of your home fridge then, bang gas and electricity.

Regards Philip A

[aussiebushman]

You had better get rid of your home fridge then, bang gas and electricity.

Regards Philip A

Agree! Besides which, while many of us do jobs that are supposed to be done by "professionals" there are limits and in no way an unqualified person should be playing with Hi-Chill or any other highly explosive gases - also like LPG installations. Petrol is bad enough but at least you can see it.

A specialist service shop will charge at $100+ per hour but at least the job will (or should be) done correctly and safely. If it blows up while they are working on it, at least you will not be there to join in the fun and their insurance will get you a new car.

[DoubleChevron]

You had better get rid of your home fridge then, bang gas and electricity.

Regards Philip A

LOL .... I'm not fussed when it all hard lines and very few moving bits :) A car is a pretty bad environment compared to a domestic fridge.

[DoubleChevron]

Agree! Besides which, while many of us do jobs that are supposed to be done by "professionals" there are limits and in no way an unqualified person should be playing with Hi-Chill or any other highly explosive gases - also like LPG installations. Petrol is bad enough but at least you can see it.

A specialist service shop will charge at $100+ per hour but at least the job will (or should be) done correctly and safely. If it blows up while they are working on it, at least you will not be there to join in the fun and their insurance will get you a new car.

It shouldn't "blow up" .... There should be no oxygen or ignition source in a A/C system :) Infact, I think it would be incredibly difficult to get the stuff to explode (unless you literally pumped the refrigerant into the closed up car ..... waited for the air/gas ratio to be right .... then add an ignition source).

Changing the bottle on your BBQ is probably more dangerous as you can have "open" valves on the hotplates etc.

seeya,
Shane L.

[4bee]

There was a "theory" a while ago that the London Grenfell Tower initial explosion was caused by a 'new fangled' inflammable gas in a fridge. Apparently something caused the back of the guy's fridge to explode or so he said.

Never saw anything further about it but that could be due to many things including a cover up/whitewash,
or it may have just been a theory after all.


Just sayin'. [bighmmm]

[DoubleChevron]

There was a "theory" a while ago that the London Grenfell Tower initial explosion was caused by a 'new fangled' inflammable gas in a fridge. Apparently something caused the back of the guy's fridge to explode or so he said.

Never saw anything further about it but that could be due to many things including a cover up/whitewash,
or it may have just been a theory after all.


Just sayin'. [bighmmm]

You gotta go with what you personally feel comfortable with I guess. I'm betting a domestic fridge only has 150gms of bang gas in ... No doubt enough to scare the **** out of everyone... Probably not enough to maim and kill :confused:

I wonder how they actually explode. Do they rupture and dump the refrigerant into the room that is then ignited? If they literally exploded due to extreme system pressures, well any refrigerant will do that ( I wonder if it actually ignites as it "explodes" though to create an explosion of the actual refrigerant igniting).

seeya
Shane L.

[4bee]

Any refrigerant leak, especially a sudden one, will contain a minute (depends on system of course) % of miscible oil so that has to be included in the risk. What effect it would have I can't say, as this crap is all new to me.

[4bee]

Here you go. FWIW. He had it for 5 years apparently but if a problem suddenly existed so what, it's reliable time was up just like a new LR.


What contributed to the London tower block disaster?

A Hotpoint FF175BP fridge freezer in a fourth floor flat was initially blamed for starting the deadly blaze but a new report suggests it might not have.
It is suspected the fire, which broke out at Mr Kebede's flat, set light to the flammable exterior cladding through the gaps around the flat windows.
The public inquiry heard that Mr Kebede bought the fridge brand new, five years before the fire, and it was problem free.
After witnesses said flames spread up the exterior cladding, an urgent review of tower block safety was launched.
Read up on the Grenfell tower fire



The public inquiry heard that Mr Kebede bought the fridge brand new, five years before the fire, and it was problem free.

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DESPERATE EX-WIVES

Explosive TV show to see divorcees move back in with ex AND new partner

[DoubleChevron]

Here you go. FWIW. He had it for 5 years apparently but if a problem suddenly existed so what, it's reliable time was up just like a new LR.

Now that is interesting ... the fridge exploding I believe .......... Especially if the room containing the fridge was on fire at the time ................... What would burn better than something full of bang gas and oil under pressure :o

[PhilipA]

If they had sprinklers like the Melbourne apartment block it would have been a non event, except now AFAIK the residents in melbourne are up for 100K each to fix it. Wouldn't that ruin your day.

What about the ICON. My uneducated guess is that while the core is sound , the floor loadings are insufficient for the appliances and furniture from when the residents moved in. If so they will all need additional piers. I saw this in Canberra. Austrade was due to move into a new building. when they added the computers the floors gave way.

i know of a block of units at Mona Vale where all of the balconies had to be rebuilt at a cost of 40K for each resident , because of concrete cancer.
Ah Apartment living perfect one day and crap the next.
Regards Philip A

[DoubleChevron]

If they had sprinklers like the Melbourne apartment block it would have been a non event, except now AFAIK the residents in melbourne are up for 100K each to fix it. Wouldn't that ruin your day.

What about the ICON. My uneducated guess is that while the core is sound , the floor loadings are insufficient for the appliances and furniture from when the residents moved in. If so they will all need additional piers. I saw this in Canberra. Austrade was due to move into a new building. when they added the computers the floors gave way.

i know of a block of units at Mona Vale where all of the balconies had to be rebuilt at a cost of 40K for each resident , because of concrete cancer.
Ah Apartment living perfect one day and crap the next.
Regards Philip A

Probably just me ... but I couldn't imagine anything worse. This is the view from my "balcony" .... also know as a 9 x 9 meter decked area with a carport over it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=147279&d=1546836632

I guess people living in apartments don't have as much grass to cut as me though ... [bighmmm]

[LRJim]

i know of a block of units at Mona Vale where all of the balconies had to be rebuilt at a cost of 40K for each resident , because of concrete cancer.


Probably "built" by my old boss...

[4bee]

Now that is interesting ... the fridge exploding I believe .......... Especially if the room containing the fridge was on fire at the time ................... What would burn better than something full of bang gas and oil under pressure


A Chicken or the Egg situation I reckon in the case of Grenfell.




Icon? I really feel for those residents no matter how much cash they apparently have.

Bought in good faith, Life savings & some crap designer, Builder, Council Building "Inspector" buggers up the rest of your life for a possible backhander or two.

It is all going to end in big tears, mark my words. As 'er indoors often says "Those responsible will be the first against my wall (firing squad) when the time comes".


I should tell her that if she can find a decent builder to build one then be my guest. [smilebigeye][smilebigeye]


As for Concrete cancer, it was reported that this was going to be a huge problem in years to come on the Gold Coast as the reo was rusting from the structure ends & blowing off the render & concrete . No one seemed to have the solution then but I hope there is one now because can you imagine the legal disputes & the enormity of that problem in all those high rises.

Time will tell eh?

[Blknight.aus]

HiChill lover, hater, or on the fence? always interested in your opinions/feedback.

a bit of both...

its not as effective or as drop in as they would have you believe but it works in a lot of situations, isnt yet a controlled refrigerant and is easy to adapt a system to if you dont have leaking seals in a hard to get to place.

[4bee]

I guess people living in apartments don't have as much grass to cut as me though ...


True enough DC, but they also wouldn't have the lovely smell of newly cut grass as well as nearest neighbours a few hundred metres away instead of just through the party wall.[bighmmm]

[fredd63]

Recommend going with hychill, as it is much more efficient than other refrigerants. Years ago, one of the motoring organisations ( RACV or NRMA) conducted some tests regarding danger of explosion when using LPG as fuel or A/C refrigerant, and found that there was very little risk. It is actually hard to get the right conditions for LPG to explode; BBQ fires are another matter.