swivel grease

[DoubleChevron]

Hi guys,

I've never changed (or checked [bighmmm] ) the swivels in my car. Its a 92 model so has grease filled swivels. DOes anyone know what the grease actually is ? ( so I can just buy a container of the stuff rather than small packets).

seeya,
Shaen L.

[LRJim]

Hi guys,

I've never changed (or checked [bighmmm] ) the swivels in my car. Its a 92 model so has grease filled swivels. DOes anyone know what the grease actually is ? ( so I can just buy a container of the stuff rather than small packets).

seeya,
Shaen L.Its a mixture of an LMM grease and diff oil I think 50/50 but im not 100%. Ive been using just LMM with no issues yet, ive been meaning to pour a bit of diff oil in with them also.

Cheers Jim

[67hardtop]

Its a mixture of an LMM grease and diff oil I think 50/50 but im not 100%. Ive been using just LMM with no issues yet, ive been meaning to pour a bit of diff oil in with them also.

Cheers JimThats what ive used in my series vehicles. Lmm and 85w140. I overfill the swivels a bit too as i have FWHs. No leaks and no problems yet in 12 yrs.

[DoubleChevron]

Now that is interesting. This one is supposed to be greased swivels.... ie: greased wheel bearings. There is evidence of oil running down the back of the tire ( weird given it has been sitting for a couple of years) and yet there looks to be thick black grease at the top when I pull the filler plug out. The housings have filler and level plugs by the looks of it, so that should make life easier.

I'm betting some put oil in there (that leaks) so they also put grease in there [bighmmm] I'm guessing I will flush the thing. Put the equivalnt of one shot in there..... Then throw a seal kit through it if it still leaks.

I might give the LMM grease and diff oil mixed together a go :) ( I wonder if they seperate out and I'll just end up with grease and oil and the ground[bigrolf]

seeya,
Shane L.

[350RRC]

Pretty sure the wheel bearings are fed from the diff oil, swivels are isolated.
That's how it works on my pos.

DL

[DoubleChevron]

looks like the swivels do the wheel bearings and everything on the earlier RRC ... this being a 92 has different drive members/CVs and the wheel bearings are sealed away from the oil so they are greased.

seeya
Shane L.

[350RRC]

Well if you overfill the diff on a 74 or 81 RRC it'll leak.




All over the inside of the tyre. Usually LHS

No way the swivels oil the wheel bearings in any of the above units I have.

Pure EP90 comes out if I take the drive flanges off but I use 50% grease in the swivels.

Can't comment on a 92.

DL

[101RRS]

If in doubt look up the workshop manual.

Originally the swivel houseing (front CVs) were oil filled.

350ml of Hypoid gear oil - SAE 80EP or SAE 90 API GL4.

Certainly later there was the option of using one shot CV grease in there and in my early Discos I put the one shot in and filled up a bit more with oil and works fine. In a good unmodified axle, the swivel pin housing is isolated from both the diff oil and the wheel bearing by seals.

Garry

[DoubleChevron]

thanks guys,

I hadn't understood how it all worked. Looking at the housings shows me you actually fill the entire housing including CV joint with oil!!! No wonder both of the cars here haven't leaked from the swivel .... the dman things are EMPTY. The last one I got had a rusty cv joint that was shattered when I got it home (so it had been running with empty swivels for probably a decade!). Are the CV joint really lubricated with oil ? That is what the housings appear to show.

So the really early cars look like the wheel bearings, swivels and CV's were running in the swivel oil. The later cars have the wheel bearing isolated by seals and have a separate drive member.

How dumb was I to never realise these suckers were running empty [bighmmm] I bet they leak horrendously when I put some oil/grease mixture in there!

That is interesting about overfilling the diff. That must allow oil past the axle seal to overfill the swivels. This one obviously has good axle seals as the swivel would be wet with gearbox oil otherwise.

seeya,
Shane L.

[350RRC]

thanks guys,

I hadn't understood how it all worked. Looking at the housings shows me you actually fill the entire housing including CV joint with oil!!! No wonder both of the cars here haven't leaked from the swivel .... the dman things are EMPTY. The last one I got had a rusty cv joint that was shattered when I got it home (so it had been running with empty swivels for probably a decade!). Are the CV joint really lubricated with oil ? That is what the housings appear to show.

So the really early cars look like the wheel bearings, swivels and CV's were running in the swivel oil. The later cars have the wheel bearing isolated by seals and have a separate drive member.

How dumb was I to never realise these suckers were running empty [bighmmm] I bet they leak horrendously when I put some oil/grease mixture in there!

That is interesting about overfilling the diff. That must allow oil past the axle seal to overfill the swivels. This one obviously has good axle seals as the swivel would be wet with gearbox oil otherwise.

seeya,
Shane L.

No, no, no. [smilebigeye]

The swivels are isolated from the diff oil.

The swivel hubs on the ones that used to be lubed with oil have a square headed (9/16?) filler plug top front AND a level plug with about a 1/4" square head halfway up towards the front pointing inwards a bit just below the steering stop, usually hard to see cause they're coated with crap from leaking ball seals.

LR switched to one shot grease at some stage because it is hard to stop this leakage for any length of time (like a week). [smilebigeye]

Dunno if the later ones using one shot grease have a level plug or not.

The diff oil (at least in 74 and 81 RRC's) lubes the wheel bearings, which is the main reason they last so long.

cheers, DL

[4bee]

SEMI FLUID GREASE | Penrite Oil (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/semi-fluid-grease#/)You could look at Penrite 00 which I have seen discussed for this purpose. (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/semi-fluid-grease#/)




(https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/semi-fluid-grease#/)

[LRJim]

SEMI FLUID GREASE | Penrite Oil (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/semi-fluid-grease#/)You could look at Penrite 00 which I have seen discussed for this purpose. (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/semi-fluid-grease#/)




(https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/semi-fluid-grease#/)Looks promising [emoji106]

[DoubleChevron]

SEMI FLUID GREASE | Penrite Oil (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/semi-fluid-grease#/)You could look at Penrite 00 which I have seen discussed for this purpose. (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/semi-fluid-grease#/)




(https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/semi-fluid-grease#/)

Excellent find! I think there used to be a grease similar to that for our mower gearbox when I was a kids (it was running when cold, but thick like grease when hot). That could be perfect. I"m guessing the only point of concern is the CV joints. I'll ring penrite tomorrow and see if the grease is suitable for CVs. Bearings will no doubt be fine.

I could also use it in my slasher and flail mower gearboxes (both of which leak around the seals).

seeya,
Shane L.

[350RRC]

...................... I'll ring penrite tomorrow and see if the grease is suitable for CVs. Bearings will no doubt be fine.................
seeya,
Shane L.

Which bearings are going to be fine without doubt and why?

Just trying to help with the orig prob.

DL

[DoubleChevron]

Which bearings are going to be fine without doubt and why?

Just trying to help with the orig prob.

DL

Well the only things the oil/grease needs to do is work with CVs and lubricate the swivel bearings......... I would have thought any grease or oil would be ok with the swivel bearings given there limited arc and zero rotational speed :)

Who wants to bet in 6 weeks time i'll be pulling the damn tings down to replace the seals ..................................... after all the oil/grease leaks away.

seeya,
Shane L.

[101RRS]

Which bearings are going to be fine without doubt and why?



I agree - which bearings?

In the original setup there would have been an oil seal between the axle housing and the swivel housing to keep the two oils separate. Likewise there would have been a oil seal between the swivel housing and the wheel bearings to prevent the oil from the swivel housing getting into the greased bearings.

However if you want to change to oiled bearings etc the oil seals can be removed - now if the change has been made to make the wheel bearings oiled rather than greased, changing the swivel housing to one shot grease (CV grease) could mean the wheel bearings are then starved of lubrication.

Shane needs to understand what arrangement is in place before anything is done.

[DoubleChevron]

I agree - which bearings?

In the original setup there would have been an oil seal between the axle housing and the swivel housing to keep the two oils separate. Likewise there would have been a oil seal between the swivel housing and the wheel bearings to prevent the oil from the swivel housing getting into the greased bearings.

However if you want to change to oiled bearings etc the oil seals can be removed - now if the change has been made to make the wheel bearings oiled rather than greased, changing the swivel housing to one shot grease (CV grease) could mean the wheel bearings are then starved of lubrication.

Shane needs to understand what arrangement is in place before anything is done.

The swivel bearings ................ As far as I can tell looking at it, there is no other bearings the oil touches.

[Bradtot]

I use and have always used as suggested by 2 independent LandRover mechanics Moreys engine oil stabiliser. Have done since 1985. My ,current 89 Rangie has it in there. I did my swivels and seals 16 years ago and I have just redone them 2 months ag as they started to leak, not a bad run and over 250000 thousand k later. My 82 Rangie did and is still going 540000k on the original cv and wheel bearings. I had Moreys in that as well, everywhere, engine , gearbox trans case, power steering, I am converted and all my current vehicles run it in some form, even my renault Kangoo has a litre in the engine at every oil change.
My experience and my thoughts , but it has worked for me over the years I have owned a Rangie....since about....1983....😀😀

[DoubleChevron]

I use and have always used as suggested by 2 independent LandRover mechanics Moreys engine oil stabiliser. Have done since 1985. My ,current 89 Rangie has it in there. I did my swivels and seals 16 years ago and I have just redone them 2 months ag as they started to leak, not a bad run and over 250000 thousand k later. My 82 Rangie did and is still going 540000k on the original cv and wheel bearings. I had Moreys in that as well, everywhere, engine , gearbox trans case, power steering, I am converted and all my current vehicles run it in some form, even my renault Kangoo has a litre in the engine at every oil change.
My experience and my thoughts , but it has worked for me over the years I have owned a Rangie....since about....1983....😀😀

Interesting .... it doesn't actually say what the oil stabiiliser is. I wonder if its a PTFE additive like the Nulon stuff I've used in gearboxes for years (that really does work).

seeya,
Shane L.

[rick130]

Moreys is pretty ordinary, its just a high molecular weight oil with little if any EP additives.
It's not something I'd use.
You are much better off using a GL5/6 diff oil. The point loading of a CV ball is bloody high and diff oils have a decent EP add package.

Ideally CV's need lubricating solids like moly, but Landy CV's have survived for years on diff oil alone.

One Shot is a 00 grease with minimal moly, IIRC is only around 2% so not particularly robust either.

[DoubleChevron]

Moreys is pretty ordinary, its just a high molecular weight oil with little if any EP additives.
It's not something I'd use.
You are much better off using a GL5/6 diff oil. The point loading of a CV ball is bloody high and diff oils have a decent EP add package.

Ideally CV's need lubricating solids like moly, but Landy CV's have survived for years on diff oil alone.

One Shot is a 00 grease with minimal moly, IIRC is only around 2% so not particularly robust either.


This is all interesting. Given the suckers seem to last until they get rusty ... or a locked borg warner TC shatters them..... They must be quite robust. I image the fact its such a clean environment with no rubber boots that split is one of the reasons they last so well in oil (even when the oil is left empty for extended periods of time [bighmmm] ). I'm going to give the liquid grease a go. If I end up rebuilding the swivels and seals, I'll just run oil (oil is so much simpler than messing around with everything else).

seeya,
Shane L.

[Rick1970]

My D1 swivels are filled with a moly based grease and 80/w90 GL5 oil mix atm, no problems and leak free, atm anyway

[DoubleChevron]

Man I suck .... I purchased new output shaft seals for the transfer case (as they obviously forked the the damn car around at the place that did the repair quote from its tailshaft, trashing the seal in the transfer case). So I ordered new seals on sunday through roverlord on ebay. I sent mario a message asking if he had the felt seals .... and he chucked them in as well..... And they were here this morning at 8:00am :o .... Amazing!

I ordered two seals to change both while its out ........... Fortunately I ordered two as I suck at this like everything else ...[bigrolf] I just could get the seal to push straight in cleanly and evenly .... so I'm unsure if I damaged it (so I'll keep the 2nd incase it leaks and I have to change it again). I usually push seals in with either the old seal, or a perfectly fitting socket. However in this case even the largest 3/4" socket I have wasn't big enough.

Oh ... BTW: Finally some quality with Land Rover parts. The seals have "England" cast into them and they are a lovely soft feeling brown rubber type material that appears to have a double sealing lip with a fine coating of grease pushed between the two seal lips. Nice!

Does everyone else turn up seal insertion tools ? It always amazing that I stuff up everything that no-one else seems to have a problem with :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[Rick1970]

Yep, usually make seal insertion tools if necessary. I find a bad fitting socket is the best way of stuffing a new seal up.

[4bee]

FWIW.


I have found that the Series Hub Nut Tube spanner in reverse can make a good seal 'pusher inner' but not had to try it on the D1` With an appropriate rubber washer or soft material in between of course.

Am I generalising? Dunno.[bighmmm]

[Baggy]

Hi All,

just following on from Shane's post I looked at my swivel housings in my 92 RRC.

I used 80 - 90 gear oil and mixture Morley's oil stabilizer.

I couldn't get oil to fill in it just kept flowing out no matter how gentle on the hand pump I was.

I tried filling from halfway (where you check oil level) but no better luck.

Landrover manuals say holds approx 350mm (from memory) but I know nowhere near that amount got in there.

Is there a trick .... or I'm just missing something obvious.

thanks Baggy

[Bradtot]

Did you have the steering either far left or far right to open the fill hole bigger?[bigwhistle]

[JDNSW]

Yes - turn to full lock, to bring the hole as close as possible to in line with the line of the axle. On the RR that would be right lock for the right hub, I think.

[Baggy]

Bradtot & JDNSW

That's why we have brains trusts on this EXCELLENT site.
Honest answer .... NO .... and I had a Haynes manual that did not mention that fact as well.[bighmmm]

I've a meeting tonight and will check them properly tomorrow.

Thank you to both of you .... may have saved me an expensive bill as I am planning a little trip down south and
am doing some pre maintenance work prior to trip [biggrin]

Cheers

Baggy