Dealership recommend to replace front lower control arms at 20,000kms

[joneswood]

2015 SDV6 HSE, travelled 20,000 kms, low mileage. Sent to Land Rover dealership, did the 3 year 75,000kms schedule service($1156). The dealership recommended that the hydro bushes on the front lower arms has a little bit play, and quoted 2200 bucks to replace the whole control arm assembly, due to Hydro bushes cannot be removed from the arms. Meanwhile he said the issue is not urgent, and the ball joints and arms are in good shapes.
I am a bit reluctant to have the arms replace at this low mileage. Arms and bushes all look pretty good. What are you guys opinions?

[cjc_td5]

If there is no clunking when going over speed humps or oil weeping, I'd just drive on until they fail. They don't fail catastrophically, just start clunking eventually...
C

[DiscoJeffster]

Lol. What absolute rot. The arms can have the bushes replaced in them as that’s how the dealer did mine.
As for needing replacement, I’d highly doubt it but as it’s not in front of me I cannot confirm it. Seems ridiculously low mileage for that issue to appear however.

[joneswood]

Lol. What absolute rot. The arms can have the bushes replaced in them as that’s how the dealer did mine.
As for needing replacement, I’d highly doubt it but as it’s not in front of me I cannot confirm it. Seems ridiculously low mileage for that issue to appear however.

Sounded ridiculous. It is like when you got a leaking valve stem, then they ask you to replace the rim and tyre.

[Celtoid]

Any decent mechanic or steering place should be able to tell you what condition they are in.

LR recently stated my brakes and LCAs where shot and wanted shed loads to do the job. I took the car to a local guy I've known for years. LCAs were indeed shot .... brakes had months of wear left.

He has a Snap-On diagnostic tool and could easily do the LCAs and the required alignment. He used genuine parts and still came in heaps lower than LR. Recons the job was easy too and that was the first time he'd ever done a D4.

[cjc_td5]

Others have certainly been replaced at those sort of kms. Yes the bushes themselves can be replaced but when including labour, it usually cheaper to just replace the whole arm.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Mine got done at 120,000km, complete LCA replacement with upgraded units. The front was clunking considerably under braking and over speed humps.

I'd say at 20,000km is a bit early, wait until they start making noise. 2200 is also a bit steep, if you're handy with a spanner, you can take the LCAs out yourself and either get the bushes replaced at a suspension shop or install new LCA's then get a wheel alignment. New LCA's from the UK suppliers are relatively cheap.

[LRD414]

Mine were done at around 55. Bushes only done by the dealer.

[joneswood]

Others have certainly been replaced at those sort of kms. Yes the bushes themselves can be replaced but when including labour, it usually cheaper to just replace the whole arm.

For sure if hit a rock, damage the parts, I would expect replacing them.
however from everyday driving, I don’t expect changing the LCAs every 20,000 kms. By saying that there is no clunky noises when turning or going through bumps, car drives smoothly.

Will go to a different dealership for next year, if they insist changing the LCAs, then that probably the time to get them replaced.

[LRD414]

For sure if hit a rock, damage the parts, I would expect replacing them.
however from everyday driving, I don’t expect changing the LCAs every 20,000 kms. By saying that there is no clunky noises when turning or going through bumps, car drives smoothly.
Based on reading about LCA bush life as reported here over many years there is a wide range depending on usage but I feel that 20k would be something of an outlier. It may not be statistically valid but my feeling is that it's reasonable to expect at least 50k even under relatively harsh usage over corrugated outback roads. Given you have experienced none of the classic symptoms of bush failure I think it unlikely there's actually an issue yet with yours.

I don't think it is a given that complete arm replacement is the cheapest option any more. There's more places with the correct tooling for bush replacement and the OEM bushes are very cheap (I think around $40 each from memory).

Regards,
Scott

[DiscoJeffster]

Bush ~$90 each from LR at trade according to my invoice and ~$65 each for the ball joint. Labour wasn’t specifically itemised from the service but expect it was a large portion of the whole $1600 labour bill

[Eric SDV6SE]

From memory I paid about the same, this was drive in drive out, including LR wheel alignment, GST and complete LCA's of 2015 vintage. Last week under the car I saw that t the part stickers are still there.

[Grappler]

I replaced the front lower control arms after 220,000 km as the ball joint became clunky. The rubber bushes were still OK but I replaced the complete assembly and got a complete wheel alignment We live on a corried gravel road, and it lasted 220.000, so I would be surprised the bushes would fail at only 20,000

[DiscoJeffster]

196,000km for my car which spent most it’s time on the bitumen

[loanrangie]

I've been pricing bushes and cheapest in oz I can find is $59 for lemforder hydro from tr spares, from AF uk I can get a meyle HD for about $25 each.

[letherm]

My dealer said that the lower control arms were in need of replacement at about 4 years from memory. I had only done about 25,000 kms and was quite surprised. They put it through under extended warranty but was only approved on the second try when they worded the claim differently. Virtually all of my driving is Sydney suburban with a fair amount of round abouts and many speed humps.

Martin

[joneswood]

My dealer said that the lower control arms were in need of replacement at about 4 years from memory. I had only done about 25,000 kms and was quite surprised. They put it through under extended warranty but was only approved on the second try when they worded the claim differently. Virtually all of my driving is Sydney suburban with a fair amount of round abouts and many speed humps.

Martin

LCA replacement every 4 years? Sounds like we went to the same stealership.

[Disco-tastic]

I paid $250 for the rear bushes and bolts. Job took me a few hours each side but with a hoist i reckon 90 mins each side is doable.

Ive heard of people having them replaced at low I'm but they all pushed for it being done under warranty. If there are no clunks while turning into driveways or driving over speed bumps, then I wouldnt bother with it.

[Celtoid]

I paid $250 for the rear bushes and bolts. Job took me a few hours each side but with a hoist i reckon 90 mins each side is doable.

Ive heard of people having them replaced at low I'm but they all pushed for it being done under warranty. If there are no clunks while turning into driveways or driving over speed bumps, then I wouldnt bother with it.

The Tyre and Mechanical place I took mine to after first going to LR, quoted me two hour per side because they had never done a D4 before. The stated they couldn't believe how easy it was when they actually did the job and charged one hour total :-)

[letherm]

LCA replacement every 4 years? Sounds like we went to the same stealership.Does it begin with a "P" and near Carrs Park? If so, then yes.

Martin

[joneswood]

Does it begin with a "P" and near Carrs Park? If so, then yes.

Martin

Mine starts with Parra but is one of the trivett group.
might try concord or alto group next time

[letherm]

Mine starts with Parra but is one of the trivett group.
might try concord or alto group next time

Mine's at Blakehurst not part of Trivett group.

[Matty_P]

Others have certainly been replaced at those sort of kms. Yes the bushes themselves can be replaced but when including labour, it usually cheaper to just replace the whole arm.

Just had mine done on my D3 by local suspension mob, they said they wont do the Hydro bushes because they will need replacing in 12months which i thought was B.S but looking at the comments maybe 20K is plausible....

[DiscoJeffster]

Just had mine done on my D3 by local suspension mob, they said they wont do the Hydro bushes because they will need replacing in 12months which i thought was B.S but looking at the comments maybe 20K is plausible....

It totally depends on what terrain you drive on. My car’s original ones lasted 196k km. The next ones have lasted 60k so far with no issue and have done corrugated off road. If you never want to replace them again then sure, don’t use hydra, but generally they’re fine. I wonder if the flex they have (by design) is misunderstood by some as a failed bush when there’s nothing actually wrong with it?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Good point DJ.

I’m thinking of replacing all the bushes in the rear upper and lower control arms with SuperPro bushes.

Not hydraulic, but the Superpro I’ve got in there so far (sway bars front and rear) are fine.

SuperPro Suspension Parts and Poly Bushings for LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 2009-2016 - Series 4 (https://superpro.com.au/find/superpro-suspension-parts-and-poly-bushings-for-land-rover-discovery-2009-2016-series-4-/cid-999501170)


After 185,000kms, there are some clunks and groans in there, and it doesn’t “ feel” as tight as it should.

[DiscoJeffster]

Good point DJ.

I’m thinking of replacing all the bushes in the rear upper and lower control arms with SuperPro bushes.

Not hydraulic, but the Superpro I’ve got in there so far (sway bars front and rear) are fine.

SuperPro Suspension Parts and Poly Bushings for LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 2009-2016 - Series 4 (https://superpro.com.au/find/superpro-suspension-parts-and-poly-bushings-for-land-rover-discovery-2009-2016-series-4-/cid-999501170)


After 185,000kms, there are some clunks and groans in there, and it doesn’t “ feel” as tight as it should.

Many who’ve gone superpro complain of a harsher drive after. I believe you’re better to go with the advanced factors upgraded bushes which are still rubber but fixed rubber not hydra, known as Heavy Duty. Each to their own obviously but forewarned is forearmed.

[joneswood]

It totally depends on what terrain you drive on. My car’s original ones lasted 196k km. The next ones have lasted 60k so far with no issue and have done corrugated off road. If you never want to replace them again then sure, don’t use hydra, but generally they’re fine. I wonder if the flex they have (by design) is misunderstood by some as a failed bush when there’s nothing actually wrong with it?

The only reason for a replacement for my car, as they told me, was that there is a little bit play when rocking the wheels. Called them again to confirm, and questioned about the replacement at this stage might be too early. Then the service advisor seems like changed his mind, saying it is not urgent important now and take the car back to check in 6 months. IMO I wouldn’t worry it too much and just drive it and get it serviced by another LR dealer. The lesson is that always seek second opinion when dealing with people with conflicts of interest.
Thank you everyone for the input.

[joneswood]

Many who’ve gone superpro complain of a harsher drive after. I believe you’re better to go with the advanced factors upgraded bushes which are still rubber but fixed rubber not hydra, known as Heavy Duty. Each to their own obviously but forewarned is forearmed.
Would you be able to send me a illustration showing the structure of hydro bushes.
How does it work? Is there fluid or oil in the sealed tube to act like shock absorber?
cheers

[LRD414]

Have a read of these threads and any linked ones. You'll find feedback on poly bushes and details of the Lemforder hydro bushes that are the factory fitment. You will also see some pictures of what a failed hydro bush looks like.

DIY Lower Control Arm Bush Replacement (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/256680-diy-lower-control-arm-bush-replacement.html)

Poly Bushings in Control Arms (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/225058-poly-bushings-control-arms.html)

LRA LCA bushes (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/241287-lra-lca-bushes.html)

Cheers,
Scott

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/09/674.jpg

[letherm]

This reminds about the old Morris 1100 CV joints problems. Due to leaky oil seals dropping oil onto them they were constantly failing and needing replacement. They were simply a cross coated in rubber and when the rubber failed there was an enormous amount of play under acceleration and deceleration. I got quite good at changing them on my father's 1100 having had to do it often. Parts weren't an issue as he was a shift supervisor where they assembled the cars in Zetland in Sydney.


Martin

[Matty_P]

Good point DJ.

I’m thinking of replacing all the bushes in the rear upper and lower control arms with SuperPro bushes.

Not hydraulic, but the Superpro I’ve got in there so far (sway bars front and rear) are fine.

SuperPro Suspension Parts and Poly Bushings for LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 2009-2016 - Series 4 (https://superpro.com.au/find/superpro-suspension-parts-and-poly-bushings-for-land-rover-discovery-2009-2016-series-4-/cid-999501170)


After 185,000kms, there are some clunks and groans in there, and it doesn’t “ feel” as tight as it should.


I just had the SuperPro bushes put in the U&LCA by Fullcrum. Today got the front and rear sway bar bushes done with factory rubber ones - no more clunking when i turn left or right.....

[DiscoJeffster]

I tried Superpro sway bar bushes but they were 1mm too large and didn’t work. They didn’t have the right size so I ordered some new factory rubber jobbies and the knocking I got from superpro went away. For me that was a fail.

[jbcool]

I’m in a similar situation at 34,000 kms. Unfortunately not handy enough to do it myself. Any suggestions/ recommendations on places that could in Sydney around North Ryde?

[letherm]

Apart from dealers there are a number of Indys. I now use Davis Performance Landy. Bruce is now at South Windsor (was at Annangrove). Here's a link to a thread you may find helpful.

Good and Honest Sydney Land Rover Mechanics (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/25930-good-honest-sydney-land-rover-mechanics.html)

Not mentioned in that thread are Graeme Cooper at St Peters, Cremorne Prestige and Land Rover Mechanical at Penshurst. These, along with Bruce Davis, are the ones I have seen recommended since I've been on the forum. Do a google search on "land rover mechanic sydney" and you'll get a good result of options too. Don't recall anyone at North Ryde.


Martin

[DazzaTD5]

Others have certainly been replaced at those sort of kms. Yes the bushes themselves can be replaced but when including labour, it usually cheaper to just replace the whole arm.

exactly what he said

[ATH]

I got the stealer to check my suspension/steering yesterday as there sometimes seems to be a slight weird feeling through the steering when doing certain things in the D4.
Absolutely nothing wrong they say...... mmmmmm. I think I may get a second opinion. :)
AlanH.

[Redrex]

I tried Superpro sway bar bushes but they were 1mm too large and didn’t work. They didn’t have the right size so I ordered some new factory rubber jobbies and the knocking I got from superpro went away. For me that was a fail.

I've just been searching for new bushes and was considering the SuperPro....

But measured mine yesterday at 30mm and the SuperPro are 31mm ID, I thought was odd. You comment confirms my searching :) Think Ill just get the OEM rubber ones. My drivers side is making a clunk at low speed sometimes over small harsh bumps, at first suspecting LCA bushes, but after getting under and having a look the sway bar bush is quite badly flogged out. Will try that first as not too big a job to change out.

Cheers for completing the testing for me ;-)

Scott.

[shanegtr]

I've just been searching for new bushes and was considering the SuperPro....

But measured mine yesterday at 30mm and the SuperPro are 31mm ID, I thought was odd. You comment confirms my searching :) Think Ill just get the OEM rubber ones. My drivers side is making a clunk at low speed sometimes over small harsh bumps, at first suspecting LCA bushes, but after getting under and having a look the sway bar bush is quite badly flogged out. Will try that first as not too big a job to change out.

Cheers for completing the testing for me ;-)

Scott.


I tried Superpro sway bar bushes but they were 1mm too large and didn’t work. They didn’t have the right size so I ordered some new factory rubber jobbies and the knocking I got from superpro went away. For me that was a fail.
I've got superpro sway bar bushes in my D3. Superpro list a 28mm and 34mm diameter bush for the front in the D3- 28mm in mine. No issues with them so far

[Eric SDV6SE]

Whilst im a fan of Superpro, their poly bushes in the D4 sway bars are still too hard. Ive gone back to oem rubber both front and back. I found combined with my PR10 rated MAXXIS 960 AT's, the ride was just too harsh.

Ive still got the adjustable links in the rear, set at 10mm shorter than std
Found this helps when towing.

Just my observations.

[twr7cx]

The bushes are available separately for the lower control arm:
RBX500311 for the front
LR025159 for the rear

EDIT: didn't read all the pages sorry if doubled up.

[Tombie]

Workshops do themselves no favours when they talk rubbish to owners.