D4 Red triangle restricted performance

[Declan]

Hi lads
On my way to go 4WD today got a red triangle restricted performance on my D4.

Got out the IID tool and it showed no faults?
There were no faults in any ECUs

So I pressed clear all faults to see what would happen and it cleared the fault even do it was not showing.

Drove about half a kilometre and the fault came up again?

Cleared the fault and headed back home ( no 4WD today 😭.

The fault raised it head a couple of times on the way back home but the IID tool clears it every time even do it's not showing as a fault.
Has anybody come across this?,I have looked at some of the threads restricted performance but they all had some type of codes.

Nearly forgot fitted a new battery yesterday as the other one had died,it's charging so that's all good any replies would be appreciated.

Thanks Dec.

[LRD414]

Sounds very similar to mine, details at this thread including required settings for iid to read the codes:
Restricted Performance Event (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/253796-restricted-performance-event.html)

Cheers,
Scott

[Declan]

Thanks Scott, I have put my.IID tool on pending so when the red triangle restricted performance comes up again hopefully I get.some type.of code fault.

[LRD414]

And turn off Confirmed so that Pending can be displayed.

[Declan]

I will LRD414 thanks for letting know.

[Declan]

Hi lads no luck even with changing the IID tool to pending still showing the red triangle restricted performance.
Next I'm going to pull out the MAF air sensors and give them a clean hopefully it's just a build up of carbon.

If anyone knows of any other sensors for me to look at please let me know ,I'm going to try and look at all the trubos pipes to make sure there's no leaks ,this definitely is a puzzleing fault in that it does not come up on the IDD tool in confirm or pending status 😠

[DiscoJeffster]

Hi lads no luck even with changing the IID tool to pending still showing the red triangle restricted performance.
Next I'm going to pull out the MAF air sensors and give them a clean hopefully it's just a build up of carbon.

If anyone knows of any other sensors for me to look at please let me know ,I'm going to try and look at all the trubos pipes to make sure there's no leaks ,this definitely is a puzzleing fault in that it does not come up on the IDD tool in confirm or pending status 😠

Very odd. I've never seen a restricted performance error that doesn't log. Double checked pending is still set?

Air leaks have always been my downfall that caused restricted performance errors.

[Graeme]

Both pending and confirmed should be ticked and read the faults again if an option is changed.

Note that changing the IIDTool settings is only for the tool's ability to show you the stored faults.

[Declan]

Thanks Graeme for the feedback.

Latest update is I cleaned both airflow sensors and swap from left to right when refitting to the air filter box and low and behold when I got the restricted performance again I had a fault code 😁

I believe I need a new air MAF sensor as the code says

P006-00A (27) ABSOLUTE PRESSURE - MASS OR VOLUME AIR FLOW CORRELATION.

Do you know exactly what this means anybody.

Thanks Dec.

[DiscoJeffster]

Thanks Graeme for the feedback.

Latest update is I cleaned both airflow sensors and swap from left to right when refitting to the air filter box and low and behold when I got the restricted performance again I had a fault code [emoji16]

I believe I need a new air MAF sensor as the code says

P006-00A (27) ABSOLUTE PRESSURE - MASS OR VOLUME AIR FLOW CORRELATION.

Do you know exactly what this means anybody.

Thanks Dec.

This is telling you that the MAF and MAP sensors are not agreeing eg the MAF saw a lot of air into the engine but the boost level didn’t reach the expected value for that much air. This typically means you have a leak. 2.7L typically see a split intercooler hose. 3.0L see intake manifold splits and throttle body split as a common fault.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Or the o ring that sits between the plenum and the throttle body. Not sure if it's the same on 2.7 and 3.0 variants.

Also, I believe the mass flows sensors cannot be swapped between the intake.

[DiscoJeffster]

Or the o ring that sits between the plenum and the throttle body. Not sure if it's the same on 2.7 and 3.0 variants.

Also, I believe the mass flows sensors cannot be swapped between the intake.

They can be swapped. I’ve done the same experiment and I think mine might still be swapped. I believe I checked and the part numbers are identical.

[Declan]

Both sensors are exactly the same.numbers are all the same,so can't see an issue changing to either side.
Anybody know an easy way to check if there's an air leak seen a guy use a smoke machine to check for air leaks and he found as the smoke was coming out of the leak.
Dont have a smoke machine so anybody got any ideas?
Thanks to everyone for their replies and input.

[DiscoJeffster]

I made my own. An air compressor, a tin can with something to generate smoke, and a plug to block the intake. Hose from compressor to the tin can, hose out to the plug with a hole in the middle with the hose feeding into that.
Short runs of the compressor force the smoke into the engine and you can spot the exit. Works a treat. I used mosquito coils as my smoke producer. Filter on the outlet to stop any large particles.

[Declan]

What a great idea DiscoJeffster ,that is going to be my next plan of attack.
Will keep you all updated as I go hopefully if I solve the issue later on down the line it helps someone else when this happens to them.

Thanks Dec.

[Graeme]

Have you removed the engine cover and looked for traces of oil on the inlet manifold/cam covers?

Have you cleaned the MAP sensor (the sensor behind the throttle body)? Don't poke it with anything - use a spray cleaner only!

[Declan]

That's going to be the next job Graeme,just read an old thread clean out you hold and it discusses the map sensor and the y piece manifold to be taking out and cleaned , slowly getting through the process of elimination hopefully one of these fixes the fault 😀

[DiscoJeffster]

That's going to be the next job Graeme,just read an old thread clean out you hold and it discusses the map sensor and the y piece manifold to be taking out and cleaned , slowly getting through the process of elimination hopefully one of these fixes the fault [emoji3]

My money is on a leak, sorry.

[Graeme]

Agreed. A dirty MAP sensor can dull performance but restricted performance is because something is amiss with airflow - split/cracked manifold or hose, sticky isolation valve, faulty isolation valve solenoid, faulty variable vane mechanism of primary turbo etc.

[Declan]

Lads does anyone know what the fault code (27) is for on the DTC I can find P006A-00 (22) but not (27) ?

[LRD414]

Declan, have a read of the iiD User Manual for details but in short the 4th element which is in brackets is not that useful to fault diagnosis. The 4th element relates to the status of the fault in regards to Pending versus Confirmed etc.

Regards,
Scott

[Declan]

Thanks Scott I'm learning as I go along😀

[Declan]

Just got confirmation the drivers side manifold is cracked 😠 so leaving it in at MR Automotive ( really good independent landrover mechanics) going to have both side manifolds done as they say the other one usally goes as well , and while there doing that getting the back of engine belts done too while all the bits and pieces are of the engine 😭 $$$$$$$

Thanks to everyone for your input chasing down this fault .

[DiscoJeffster]

Just got confirmation the drivers side manifold is cracked [emoji34] so leaving it in at MR Automotive ( really good independent landrover mechanics) going to have both side manifolds done as they say the other one usally goes as well , and while there doing that getting the back of engine belts done too while all the bits and pieces are of the engine [emoji24] $$$$$$$

Thanks to everyone for your input chasing down this fault .

Sorry to hear but sadly not unexpected. Been there done that

[Eric SDV6SE]

Just got confirmation the drivers side manifold is cracked 😠 so leaving it in at MR Automotive ( really good independent landrover mechanics) going to have both side manifolds done as they say the other one usally goes as well , and while there doing that getting the back of engine belts done too ile all the bits and pieces are of the engine 😭 $$$$$$$

Thanks to everyone for your input chasing down this fault .

Sorry to hear that. Get them to replace front crank shaft seal while they're there. It's a $10 seal.

[LRD414]

Just got confirmation the drivers side manifold is cracked
What age and km is your D4?

Cheers,
Scott

[Declan]

Scott D4 is 2012 has 142km on it never had a problem with it apart from this , typical landrover I had a range rover L322 2003 and the gearbox ( from a Holden commodore ) they put in that could only take torque of 340nm but the 4WD was rated at 390nm.
You think they would learn, there lucky we love our landrovers and put up with some bad designs in them.

[Graeme]

The inlet manifolds are on about their 11th version. LR/Ford are trying in more ways than one!

[Declan]

Understand Graeme but does not help when you have to pay thousands of dollars for there bad design,they should at least pay 50% if there manifolds are on the 11 design 😠

[Declan]

Hello Lads

This has got bigger than Ben Hur , they did a few checks when they looked at the D4 (nick name BLACK PANTHER ) so this is what I will be getting done to fix it.

REMOVE AND REPLACE BOTH ENGINE INLET MANIFOLDS.
REPLACE ASSOCIATED SEALS WASHERS AND O RINGS.
REMOVE AND REPLACE FRONT AND REAR TIMING BELTS, TENSIONERS AND IDLERS.
REMOVE AND REPLACE FRONT CRANK SEAL AND BOLT.
REMOVE AND REPLACE COOLANT CROSSOVER HOUSING.
CARRY OUT COOLANT FLUSH.
REMOVE TRANSMISSION PAN, REPLACE FILTER IN SIDE AND REASSEMBLE WITH NEW GASKET AND O RINGS.
FILL WITH TRANSMISSION OIL.
ROAD TEST VEHICLE.

If anybody has this issue here are the part numbers you will need to complete the job if I had time I would have bought these items from the UK but I need my D4 for work so need it done ASAP.

LR105957 27-2 MANIFOLD, INLET, R/H, DISCO 4, 3.0 1.00
LR073585 27-2 MANIFOLD, INLET, L/H, DISCO 4, 3.0 1.00
LR008353 5-5 GASKET, THROTTLE PLATE, DISCO 3 1.00
1316152 5-8 SEAL, THROTTLE BODY, TDV6 1.00
1331260 SEAL 5-8 WASHER , FUEL INJECTOR, TDV6, TDV8 6.00
LR022992 5-2 O RING, INJECTOR, TDV6, TDV8 6.00
LABOUR QUOTE LABOUR CHARGE FOR QUOTING PURPOSES 13.00 hrs

FRONT AND REAR TIMING BELTS 0.00
LR016655 4-5 TIMING BELT KIT, FRONT, TDV6, GEN 1.00
1311306 4-6 PULLEY, IDLER, R/R & D3, TDV6 2.00
LR016656 4-6 TIMING BELT KIT, REAR, DISCO 4 3.0L 1.00
1102415 5-7 SEAL, TIMING COVER, TDV6, TDV8 1.00
LR013377 6-6 BOLT, HARMONIC BALANCER, 7A>, TDV6 16MM 1.00


LABOUR QUOTE LABOUR CHARGE FOR QUOTING PURPOSES 4.00hrs
COOLANT CROSSOVER HOUSING 0.00
LR073372 5-4 WATER OUTLET, DISCO TDV6 1.00
OR20X3.5 5-4 O RING, CROSSOVER PIPE, TDV6 1.00
LUBE 14/3 W/SHOP INHIBITOR, ZEREX DEX-COOL RED 5.00
PER LITRE, VALVOLINE PREMIUM

LABOUR QUOTE LABOUR CHARGE FOR QUOTING PURPOSES 1.00hr
TRANSMISSION SERVICE 0.00
LR007474 FILTER TOPGKT FILTER, AUTO, DISCO 3 ( STEEL SUMP) 1.00
TGK500010T TOPGKT GASKET, AUTO PAN, PAPER, DISCO 3 1.00
LUBE 4 SH4-3 AUTO FLUID, LUBEGUARD, ZF 6 SPEED 5.00
SYNTHETIC FLUID, MADE IN USA
LABOUR QUOTE LABOUR CHARGE FOR QUOTING PURPOSES 2.00hrs

Well there goes my holidays this year, thanks again for all the help I received from this forum it priceless with all the wealth of knowledge on here.

Dec.

[Graeme]

Not replacing the injector pipes as stated by LR as single use only? The pipe seats are soft for the other side to bite into to seal but if refitted at a slightly different angle then they risk not sealing.

[Declan]

Thanks Graeme will want Mr Automotive about that.

[Declan]

Well got the Black Panter back and couldn't be happier feels alot better and looking forward to going 4WD in it 😁,can't say enough about MR automotive they have been brilliant.
Cheers Dec.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Good result plus you now know that these problem prone areas have all been attended to, should give you confidence for the foreseeable future.

[Stuart02]

Does anyone feel like guessing what's going on if the MAP is triggering reduced performance under load around 100kph - 2000rpm in 5th or 6th, but not if I drop to 4th and get the revs up past 2500rpm?

Also, are the sensors just plug and play? Anything to know about replacing them? Thanks

[shack]

Does anyone feel like guessing what's going on if the MAP is triggering reduced performance under load around 100kph - 2000rpm in 5th or 6th, but not if I drop to 4th and get the revs up past 2500rpm?

Also, are the sensors just plug and play? Anything to know about replacing them? ThanksI don't know for sure, but it could be as simple as the torque limiter for the selected gear.

So 4th May be limited to 80% of the engine output, which in turn means the engine is far less likely to trigger map related faults.

All sensors should be plug and play as long as they are replaced with the same part number.

[ontheway]

Does anyone feel like guessing what's going on if the MAP is triggering reduced performance under load around 100kph - 2000rpm in 5th or 6th, but not if I drop to 4th and get the revs up past 2500rpm?

Also, are the sensors just plug and play? Anything to know about replacing them? Thanks

Mine behaved like this initially, my theory was that the boost was growing faster than the leak. In my case manifold.

[DiscoJeffster]

Does anyone feel like guessing what's going on if the MAP is triggering reduced performance under load around 100kph - 2000rpm in 5th or 6th, but not if I drop to 4th and get the revs up past 2500rpm?

Also, are the sensors just plug and play? Anything to know about replacing them? Thanks

You most likely have a leak somewhere. Get or do a smoke test.
What is the specific error code?

[shack]

I should have prefaced my comment with:

"You probably have a boost leak somewhere"

But thought it went without saying... My bad!

[Stuart02]

You most likely have a leak somewhere. Get or do a smoke test.
What is the specific error code?

It's the "P006A-00 Manifold absolute pressure - mass or volume air flow correlation" one. Manifolds have been replaced a while back (guess that doesn't mean one couldn't go again), and also the intercooler hose, though that was more straight forward - foot down, performance restricted (and gaffer tape patchable!). This one's weirder. Guess it's leak hunting time either way... thanks...

[DiscoJeffster]

I had a split throttle body. Splits where the y piece is glued to the throttle body component. I’ve also had a manifold go a second time. I’ve done the drivers side twice and the passengers once.

[Ferret]

I had a split throttle body. Splits where the y piece is glued to the throttle body component. I’ve also had a manifold go a second time. I’ve done the drivers side twice and the passengers once.

How many ks are on the clock in your case?

[DiscoJeffster]

How many ks are on the clock in your case?

325k Km.

[mtthsk]

I had a split throttle body. Splits where the y piece is glued to the throttle body component. I’ve also had a manifold go a second time. I’ve done the drivers side twice and the passengers once.

Hi DiscoJeffster,

was there a visible crack in the throttle body or did you diagnose it with a smoke test? I smoke-tested my Disco 4 MY14, which had both inlet manifolds replaced 40k kms ago, and could not see any leak in the inlet manifolds or throttle body. Just wondering if a leak would somehow only be visible when the engine is running. Instead i saw smoke coming out here (and also a little on the other side):

188678188679

I dont know if this can cause my fault codes as stated in my post here:

Leak in EGR system - how to seal? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/297397-leak-egr-system-how-seal.html)

Cheers,
Matt

[DiscoJeffster]

Yes it was easily visible in a smoke test. Also it’s easy to pull out and physically check

[Stuart02]

I had a split throttle body. Splits where the y piece is glued to the throttle body component. I’ve also had a manifold go a second time. I’ve done the drivers side twice and the passengers once.

I just realised I never reported back, it was a throttle body crack in my case too. Third mechanic finally diagnosed it with a smoke test.