FORScan Transit software - works on Defender!

[skidrov]

I was browsing the Defender2 forum and I noticed reference to the FORScan software - FORScan Home (https://forscan.org/home.html) (yes, let's make the joke about what it sounds like once and then move on [tonguewink] ). This is a set of OBDII utilities for Ford vehicles, including the Transit - with "our" engine.

The really cool and attractive thing for me is that it looks to offer the various pump relearn routines you need when you replace the VCV/ SCV/ call-it-what-you-will. And ABS bleeding. Coupled with its really cool price of FREE!!! for the full-function Windows version. The Android version costs a small amount, but not sure why you'd buy it as it does not have as many features as the Windows version, and none of the service options.

So, I downloaded and ran it - firstly on my Android device/ bluetooth ELM device, and then on my Windows laptop/ bluetooth ELM device. And, it works! Which was also the finding of the Defender2 folk. So far, I have only run the basic monitoring stuff, but all good to date. I will continue to experiment, and post findings.

[skidrov]

OK, I've done a little more playing but not the greatest result. I decided to try the pump learn procedure, figuring a) worst case no harm and b) it might improve engine running (not that it was running badly).

All started OK, and the procedure went through the injector "Temporary learning" step no problems. It then ran the "Adaptive learning" step, and got about 45% of the way through the procedure in total, but stopped with errors - the sort of errors were initialisation error, engine temperature, short to VBATT, and loss of connection to the ELM adaptor. Note that these errors didn't occur on each run, but across the three times I tried the procedure.

In any event, it has left me with a fault/DTC code of P268B - which I think means that the pump learn procedure didn't finish properly and needs to be re-run. This is the only DTC I have - no others, and no yellow "check engine" light.

I was connecting via a bluetooth ELM327 device - my suspicion is that it might not be a reliable connection and drop-outs may be causing the error. My only other guess is that my SCV (which is the original one) is not working properly and so the relearn can't complete (this is a total guess - and note that the car is running/idling/starting perfectly, with no abnormal fuel consumption). And, even with this P268B fault code, the car appears to be running fine - it idles very steadily, and a short drive felt normal.

So, thoughts welcomed. My initial thoughts are that I will get a wired/USB ELM327 lead and try that. Bluetooth is probably OK for monitoring but my suspicion is that it's not a good option for a service procedure.

My final question: does anyone have a point of view as to whether I should/not drive the car before completing the pump relearn successfully?

[Grappler]

Has your ELM 327 device been modified for the FORscan configuration?
From reading up online since I saw your thread started earlier today, I can see a standard ELM 327 interface needs to be modified (rewired via a switch) to decode highspeed data.

I downloaded the app but didnt proceed as I dont have a modified interface

[skidrov]

Yeah I suspect that'll be it... certainly hope so! [emoji39] Should have RTFM a bit more...

I have now hit eBay and ordered one of the FORScan-modified units. Will try that and report back.

[MLD]

i did the same thing but with a GAP diagnostic tool on the iPhone. Did a pump relearn and it would not complete. Tried it several times to no avail. After that exercise it idled rough, lots of smoke on start up and lost a bit of power (still ran fine once you were moving and staying in the torque band). I took it to my regular mechanic and he persisted with the pump learn using his commercial diagnostic tool until it stuck. I've been instructed to never mess with the pump learn (chastised like a naughty child).

Yours seems to be less affected than mine. If it were me i'd drive it but book it into a mechanic to do a pump relearn with a commercial diagnostic tool.

[skidrov]

So this is turning into a bit of a saga... and I keeping thinking there is truth in the if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it adage... [bawl]

I received my modified ELM327 dongle ex-eBay. But, no joy - exactly the same errors as with my bluetooth version. Admittedly the dongle wasn't the same one recommended by the Defender2 folk, but I didn't want to wait for a part out of the UK (probably should have - a so-called "local Melbourne" part took over a week...). So, I am in the same situation - car running OK, but logging the P268B code.

I'm booked into Pickards next week to have them do a learn procedure. That'll either tell me I have a fault in the car causing the issue (i.e. they won't be able to do the learn), or I bought the wrong lead.... Will keep updating for reference.

My final thought is that my car is remapped, and so I wonder if that's part of the problem - it's an early BAS tune, with the android app that DOESN'T have the pump learn utilities. However, I think I will wait and talk to Pickards before reflashing and running the pump learn.

[skidrov]

OK, not winning. Really should have left this alone.

I flashed my remap back to standard, after advice from Pete Bell (BAS) that this is the path he normally takes prior to a pump learn. Then, the pump learn and pilot correction completed successfully, using FORScan and my new dongle. So far so good.

But, then I noted I had DTCs indicating that the EGR was not responding, AND that it was stuck open... The BAS remap, of course, does not exercise the EGR - at least not on my version, so the EGR had been idle and presumably coking up for many months... And, the car feels WAY down on power. I only drove it a few metres up the hill from home and back again and then parked it - didn't want to do any more damage.

So, next job is to remove and clean (and hopefully not replace) the EGR. It presumably opened on command of the standard remap, but then I guess it jammed, open, of course...

My learnings so far are:

- FORScan does seem to work, with an eBay-available modified ELM327 dongle
- If remapped, probably a good idea to flash back to standard before you do a service routine with FORScan
- If remapped, and you have an EGR delete program, AND your remap doesn't run the cleaning cycle, you really should periodically flash back to standard to exercise the EGR (as I had been told, but ignored...)

OK, will keep posting until I run out of feet to shoot myself in. [bawl] Tips on EGR removal (which looks a pain in the butt) appreciated.

[DiscoMick]

Maybe you should go for a long drive to heat up the EGR so it goes through its cleaning cycle?

[skidrov]

Yeah, thought about that. The chukka-chukka sound you normally hear on the standard tune when you shut down the engine is the cleaning cycle - I'm not even getting that. So I think it's pretty stuck, and I'd really rather not drive it with a stuck-open valve - it really feels asthmatic...

[discorevy]

engine needs to run for a couple of minutes with no engine fault light for egr to do a self clean on shut down

[martnH]

With bas remap on my 2.2, I still get the chukka chukka self cleaning cycles
This is part of the bas remap. On the other hand, you can drive the vary with thenegr open. It will do no harm except you now have a 1.4 liter engine...so to speak.
Yeah, thought about that. The chukka-chukka sound you normally hear on the standard tune when you shut down the engine is the cleaning cycle - I'm not even getting that. So I think it's pretty stuck, and I'd really rather not drive it with a stuck-open valve - it really feels asthmatic...

[Grappler]

My learnings so far are:

- FORScan does seem to work, with an eBay-available modified ELM327 dongle
- If remapped, probably a good idea to flash back to standard before you do a service routine with FORScan
- If remapped, and you have an EGR delete program, AND your remap doesn't run the cleaning cycle, you really should periodically flash back to standard to exercise the EGR (as I had been told, but ignored...)

OK, will keep posting until I run out of feet to shoot myself in. [bawl] Tips on EGR removal (which looks a pain in the butt) appreciated.

Using the modified ELM327 - USB interface I can establish comms with the vehicle (stock standard Defender 2.2) but it then requests a strategy/calibration name or Powertrain Control Module part no.. See screen dump. Did you need to enter something here?

[skidrov]

No, sorry, didn't see that pop-up...

[skidrov]

Oh, and I should have said: my car is a 2.4. I think the ECM changed quite a bit between 2.4 and 2.2? I recall that for the early remaps for the 2.2 from some vendors you had to send your ECM to them? I did see that your car is standard, my point is that the "security" on the module looks to be uplifted.

As you've probably already figured, prolly worth posting/searching on the FORScan forum.

[Grappler]

Oh, and I should have said: .

As you've probably already figured, prolly worth posting/searching on the FORScan forum.

A search of the FORscan forum doesnt look promising. Some posts say it connects but will not interact with the Landrover ECUs

If anyone cracks it please let me know

[skidrov]

OK, finally some forward progress on this. Not strictly related to FORScan, but including for completeness.

I had an EGR blanking plate - I never fitted it as the BAS remap does the job for me, i.e. it shuts off the EGR valve. However, as per previous post, my EGR was now stuck open. So, I fitted the blanking plate (it goes between the EGR valve and the EGR cooler) and there was a bit of an improvement. The car still felt down on power, especially at lower revs, but it was not as bad as previous. I then tried cleaning the MAP and MAF sensors - not a real difference, but at least I now know they're clean.

I then noticed that on AliExpress you can buy a Transit EGR valve to your door for about $90. I was pretty sure this was the correct part for the Puma Defender; I also thought it was well worth a try at that price, especially since I am always running with the BAS remap which never cycles the EGR. And, while it may not be as good quality as OEM, hey, the OEM valve jammed on me, so what's the difference... So, bought, delivered and fitted.

Instant improvement. The power/torque was instantly returned at low revs. Now, this was with my BAS remap loaded, so I don't quite understand why it made such an improvement - I had the blanking plate in prior. I can only assume (well, wildly guess) that the ECU knows the EGR valve is partly opened and limits something... even though the BAS remap doesn't open the EGR valve.

Notes on fitting the EGR valve (things that helped me...):
- To remove the electrical connector, you use a small, flat-blade screwdriver inserted in the slot in the top of the connector and gently lever away from the body of the EGR (i.e. pushing the top of the screwdriver towards the EGR) - this releases a clip and the connector easily pulls off (why is every Defender electrical connector different... [bighmmm] )
- The bolts are 10mm (the two back horizontal ones) and 8mm (the two that drop down into the pipe to the manifold).
- The bottom back 10mm bolt was REALLY difficult - I accessed it from under the car, with a 10mm ratchet ring spanner, both on and off.
- You can JUST see both 8mm bolts with a torch, the inner one sighted through the gap between the EGR servo motor and the EGR body. This sighting helped getting the socket onto the bolt.
- When reassembling, attach the metal gaskets to the EGR valve with a sealant or adhesive before putting back on the car - you can't locate the gaskets easily once the EGR valve is in place. Then, carefully put the EGR valve back in place - it's a bit of a squish fit through the rubber jungle of hoses...
- Once the EGR valve is pretty much in place, drop the back 8mm bolt into its hole before putting the EGR in the final location (ease of access). Then, I suggest putting the back upper 10mm bolt in first to locate the part, and then getting some threads in on the 8mm bolt you put in the back hole.
- I put the final 8mm bolt in place by "jamming" it into the socket with a piece of paper and then manoeuvring it in with an extension bar.

The above pointers are gleaned from my experience, various forum posts and a Britpart YouTube video on EGR valve replacement ( YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Z6ArHeuas) )

So, the car is now back to ops normal. I have on hand a new VCV (I am going to try a Denso part - part number 294200-0360, which I am pretty sure is the equivalent of the LR one - it's certainly for the Mk.7 2.4 Transit). The VCV was $90 to my door. I have also ordered an AliExpress MAP sensor - for all of $12 to my door. I want to make sure the car behaves for a while before fitting these other parts - have had more than enough fun getting the bullets out of my feet where I shot myself...

But, when I finally think that the VCV needs replacing my plan is to put in this new one, and then pump learn/pilot correct with the FORScan software. I just need to let my emotional and physical scars heal a bit first... [bigsmile1]

Hope this all helps someone at some stage.

[martnH]

Well done.

I am told the Chinese made Ford parts are actually of a better quality

What would be the part number for the egr and maf sensors?
Cheers
OK, finally some forward progress on this. Not strictly related to FORScan, but including for completeness.

I had an EGR blanking plate - I never fitted it as the BAS remap does the job for me, i.e. it shuts off the EGR valve. However, as per previous post, my EGR was now stuck open. So, I fitted the blanking plate (it goes between the EGR valve and the EGR cooler) and there was a bit of an improvement. The car still felt down on power, especially at lower revs, but it was not as bad as previous. I then tried cleaning the MAP and MAF sensors - not a real difference, but at least I now know they're clean.

I then noticed that on AliExpress you can buy a Transit EGR valve to your door for about $90. I was pretty sure this was the correct part for the Puma Defender; I also thought it was well worth a try at that price, especially since I am always running with the BAS remap which never cycles the EGR. And, while it may not be as good quality as OEM, hey, the OEM valve jammed on me, so what's the difference... So, bought, delivered and fitted.

Instant improvement. The power/torque was instantly returned at low revs. Now, this was with my BAS remap loaded, so I don't quite understand why it made such an improvement - I had the blanking plate in prior. I can only assume (well, wildly guess) that the ECU knows the EGR valve is partly opened and limits something... even though the BAS remap doesn't open the EGR valve.

Notes on fitting the EGR valve (things that helped me...):
- To remove the electrical connector, you use a small, flat-blade screwdriver inserted in the slot in the top of the connector and gently lever away from the body of the EGR (i.e. pushing the top of the screwdriver towards the EGR) - this releases a clip and the connector easily pulls off (why is every Defender electrical connector different... [bighmmm] )
- The bolts are 10mm (the two back horizontal ones) and 8mm (the two that drop down into the pipe to the manifold).
- The bottom back 10mm bolt was REALLY difficult - I accessed it from under the car, with a 10mm ratchet ring spanner, both on and off.
- You can JUST see both 8mm bolts with a torch, the inner one sighted through the gap between the EGR servo motor and the EGR body. This sighting helped getting the socket onto the bolt.
- When reassembling, attach the metal gaskets to the EGR valve with a sealant or adhesive before putting back on the car - you can't locate the gaskets easily once the EGR valve is in place. Then, carefully put the EGR valve back in place - it's a bit of a squish fit through the rubber jungle of hoses...
- Once the EGR valve is pretty much in place, drop the back 8mm bolt into its hole before putting the EGR in the final location (ease of access). Then, I suggest putting the back upper 10mm bolt in first to locate the part, and then getting some threads in on the 8mm bolt you put in the back hole.
- I put the final 8mm bolt in place by "jamming" it into the socket with a piece of paper and then manoeuvring it in with an extension bar.

The above pointers are gleaned from my experience, various forum posts and a Britpart YouTube video on EGR valve replacement ( YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Z6ArHeuas) )

So, the car is now back to ops normal. I have on hand a new VCV (I am going to try a Denso part - part number 294200-0360, which I am pretty sure is the equivalent of the LR one - it's certainly for the Mk.7 2.4 Transit). The VCV was $90 to my door. I have also ordered an AliExpress MAP sensor - for all of $12 to my door. I want to make sure the car behaves for a while before fitting these other parts - have had more than enough fun getting the bullets out of my feet where I shot myself...

But, when I finally think that the VCV needs replacing my plan is to put in this new one, and then pump learn/pilot correct with the FORScan software. I just need to let my emotional and physical scars heal a bit first... [bigsmile1]

Hope this all helps someone at some stage.

[skidrov]

What would be the part number for the egr and maf sensors?


The original MAP sensor (I didn't buy a MAF sensor - all looks ok there) has "Ford" all over it - the part number from the sensor that I matched to on AliExpress was 6C119F479AB.

The original EGR valve has an electro-print number on it, but it's been partly erased and I can't read it properly. If you search AliExpress for 6C1Q9D475AG you'll find lots of sellers offering the part I bought. No idea how many actual different companies are making them, my $AU 0.02 worth is to select a seller that's sold a few and has a few good reviews.

Final note: my car is a MY10 2.4 - I have no idea if the part numbers quoted above are suitable for the 2.2...

[skidrov]

OK, a further (positive) update on my experiences here.

I had symptoms that made me think it was time to replace the VCV - the main one was a pulsing idle speed. So, I started with the one I had previously bought - an "alleged" original Denso part, # 294200-0360, from an unknown-to-me eBay supplier. Now, either it was the wrong part number (I did think this part number was a correct supercession...) or (my chief suspicion) it was a cheap copy. My reasons for the latter suspicion are that the electrical connector was a really bad fit - it had to be shaved to clip in. In any event, it didn't work so I fell back to the original part.

I then bought another VCV from BAS - this was a reasonable price and I have confidence in what Pete supplies. You'll find it pretty easily on the BAS web site. Not the cheapest option BUT it worked. And the connector fitted first time...

Points on fitting the VCV, mostly plagiarised from Defender2: DEFENDER2.NET - View topic - Volume Control Valve - Ford part no? (https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743584.html#743584)

- The more work room the better, hence the next two points!
- Definitely remove the plastic pipe from the brake vacuum pump - this is the black plastic tubing with a silver surround that's right in your way. It's VERY simple to unplug: slide the silver external wrap back and find where the black pipe goes into a 'wobbly' bit of metal that sits in a larger brass bolt at the back of the pump. DON'T undo this big bolt - there is a valve ball and a spring inside and a thousand curses will descend on you for all eternity if you take it out. Instead, the wobbly bit the plastic pipe goes in is a simple pressure collet - so with the fingers of your left hand, push that wobbly collet into the pump further so it rests against the end of the big nut, and with the fingers of your right hand, gently and simply pull the plastic pipe out of the collet. Easy when you know how. To reinsert later, simply push the pipe back into the collet one-handed, all the way and you'll see the collet move out towards your fingers, and that's it
- I also undid/pushed to one side the hose from the intercooler to the manifold
- Put a rag underneath the work area for when you drop bits - lots of places for screws/tools to disappear on this side of the engine. Yes, you guessed how I know...
- Undoing the Allen-head bolts on the VCV takes a 5mm key, just use either a key or a 5mm key adapted into your 1/4-drive socket set.
- Lube the new VCV "neck" with a bit of diesel. But make sure all parts are clean.

...and it really is a 30 minute job if you make adequate room as described above. It did initially take 3 goes at starting the engine before it ran steadily (stalled the first couple of times) - I assume this was due to the new VCV filling properly and having its initial "conversations" with the ECU.

Then, I flashed my map back to standard, ran the pump learn and pilot correction service routines on FORScan no probs, flashed back to the BAS tuned map, and job done. TBH, I did not notice a huge (any?) difference before/after the pump learn/pilot correction service routines. It is a recommended practice but beyond my knowledge to explain why in any detail...

Final notes:

- My $90 AliExpress EGR valve seems to be doing fine. It's mostly dormant but happily came back to life when I flashed back to standard to do the service routines (I could hear the chukka-chukka self cleaning on shut-down, and no DTCs).
- The $12 MAP sensor I mentioned earlier in this thread was a fail - when I tried fitting it a few months back the engine ran like a can of bolts. So not all el-cheapo parts are a good idea (2 fails for me - the eBay VCV & the AliExpress MAP sensor).
- My car is a MY10 2.4 - your experiences may vary on a 2.2 (especially with FORScan - all indications are that it does not work on the 2.2 LR engine).

Hope this helps/inspires others.