Heads or not?

[Dozer2]

Got a coolant leak on the passenger side engine rear of my Discovery 2 V8 2002. Photos show leak from above and below. Heads are stamped C. Ignore the valley pan oil leak.

Could this be anything other than a head gasket? Do I need testing to confirm or is this proof enough?

148420148421

Shell

[Pedro_The_Swift]

All these confirm is you have a leak somewhere,, the second pic is just a drip, the first looks more like spray, those small pink bubbles will be just spray on oil.
any excuse to get rid of the pink coolant though. Just Do It.

[PhilipA]

I used to hve this problem with my 3.9 even with new heads.

I was told that the Elring gaskets (OE) were good for compression but bad for leaks.

My theory is that the blocks relax over time and are actually a bit bowed so the coolant leaks out of the ends.

It is not a big deal as the coolant passages are right at the end , and it does not imply that there are compression leaks.
If you are a perfectionist like me , you will probably replace the head gaskets but now I am older I would probably just live with it as you only usually lose a small amount of coolant.
Regards Philip A

[trout1105]

Got a coolant leak on the passenger side engine rear of my Discovery 2 V8 2002. Photos show leak from above and below. Heads are stamped C. Ignore the valley pan oil leak.

Could this be anything other than a head gasket? Do I need testing to confirm or is this proof enough?

148420148421
Shell


I noticed the same thing on my 2004 D2a when I first got it and ignored it, 20,000K's later it cost me over $5K to get the engine fixed (including new head gaskets), Nip it in the bud early is my advice[thumbsupbig]

[Andrew D]

I would remove the spark plugs. Check for the smallest amount of moisture in any of the cylinders. If non, all good. Should be a gasket issue which in all fairness is easy to replace.

If there is moisture in any cylinder I would be concerned. The level of concern would also very. If water is in any cylinders near the firewall or radiator I would be less concerned than the other four.

(I had a disco with a dodgy lower block. In hindsight it was a very disappointing way to end my relationship with the disco. A combination of LR fingers crossed and crap manufacture).

[Andrew D]

The motor looks to pretty clean. I hope it wasn't a recent purchase.

There are some people with low morals out there with respect to offloading cars with terminal issues.

The D2 I think are a complete risk to own and honestly you have to have rocks in the head to be buying one.

[PhilipA]

Look it is very unlikely that this is any more than a leaking head gasket.
slipped sleeves etc do not show external leaks, as the water goes out of the exhaust, and they generally only affect the centre 2 cylinders.

V8 heads generally do not crack either in my experience.

If you want to gain some experience you can replace the gaskets yourself .

regards Philip A

[discorevy]

The D2 I think are a complete risk to own and honestly you have to have rocks in the head to be buying one.

Bit of a silly statement !

[Pedro_The_Swift]

as opposed to any/all other land rovers!![bigrolf]

[Dozer2]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll be skipping the leak down testing and taking the engine apart this weekend to replace the head gaskets. Good to know it doesn't look like more than leaks. Spark plugs and cylinders looked dry when I replaced the plugs and leads 200 km ago.

The motor isn't that clean, just been degreasing it to find the oil leak. The leaks aren't terminal, no overheating yet, and most vehicles, discos or not, will need an engine refresh when they've done 200000 km.

Will be nice when it doesn't smell like syrup, as my kids say. Been a few requests for pancakes this week.

Shell

[Andrew D]

Bit of a silly statement !

Yeah, crazy statement.

Still stand by it though and would suggest to anyone looking at a D2 to have the same outlook as a person walking into a Casino to have a punt. Be willing to lose and set a limit. Obviously you may get lucky but the odds are stacked against you.

I'm sure there are other brands that perform exactly the same but the D2V8 has a manufacturing flaw which LR took a punt on. The driver/owner is the loser eventually.

[Andrew D]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll be skipping the leak down testing and taking the engine apart this weekend to replace the head gaskets. Good to know it doesn't look like more than leaks. Spark plugs and cylinders looked dry when I replaced the plugs and leads 200 km ago.

The motor isn't that clean, just been degreasing it to find the oil leak. The leaks aren't terminal, no overheating yet, and most vehicles, discos or not, will need an engine refresh when they've done 200000 km.

Will be nice when it doesn't smell like syrup, as my kids say. Been a few requests for pancakes this week.

Shell

They are a pretty simple car to work on and fun.

Hopefully it's a simple gasket change over which in all likelihood it is.

You should look for the thread started by Ozcsott. Heaps of reference material and opinions :whistling: in that thread.

[trout1105]

Yeah, crazy statement.

Still stand by it though and would suggest to anyone looking at a D2 to have the same outlook as a person walking into a Casino to have a punt. Be willing to lose and set a limit. Obviously you may get lucky but the odds are stacked against you.

I'm sure there are other brands that perform exactly the same but the D2V8 has a manufacturing flaw which LR took a punt on. The driver/owner is the loser eventually.

ANY 15+ year old car is going to have some problems and with ANY 2nd hand vehicle you are taking a certain amount of risk buying it, That's why they are FAR cheaper than a new truck.
I have spent $10,000+ on my D2a V8 over the last 3-4 years on repairs and Modifications But at the end of the day it is probably just as reliable as a new 4WD.
EVERY Brand and model of car/truck has something wrong with it from day 1, often called a common fault.
You May have had a bad experience with a D2 and I feel for you But that doesn't make Every D2 a piece of crap, I am coming up to 300,000K's on mine and I am fully confident it will do another 200,000K's Because I "MAINTAIN" in "As New" condition mechanically like I do all my other vehicles.
An Ounce of prevention can save you a Ton of repairs.
The Previous Owner of my 2004 D2a most definitely neglected to service the truck properly which was blatantly obvious when the sump and the heads
were removed by the massive amount of Sludge present, All of which has now been removed and the engine (Despite the high mileage and neglect) now still runs like a Swiss watch.
You can "Bag" D2's all you like But in comparison to my 2012 Navara and my 2007 79 series V8 the D2a V8 is the "Pick of the Litter" as far as I am concerned off and on road[thumbsupbig]

[Andrew D]

ANY 15+ year old car is going to have some problems and with ANY 2nd hand vehicle you are taking a certain amount of risk buying it, That's why they are FAR cheaper than a new truck.
I have spent $10,000+ on my D2a V8 over the last 3-4 years on repairs and Modifications But at the end of the day it is probably just as reliable as a new 4WD.
EVERY Brand and model of car/truck has something wrong with it from day 1, often called a common fault.
You May have had a bad experience with a D2 and I feel for you But that doesn't make Every D2 a piece of crap, I am coming up to 300,000K's on mine and I am fully confident it will do another 200,000K's Because I "MAINTAIN" in "As New" condition mechanically like I do all my other vehicles.
An Ounce of prevention can save you a Ton of repairs.
The Previous Owner of my 2004 D2a most definitely neglected to service the truck properly which was blatantly obvious when the sump and the heads
were removed by the massive amount of Sludge present, All of which has now been removed and the engine (Despite the high mileage and neglect) now still runs like a Swiss watch.
You can "Bag" D2's all you like But in comparison to my 2012 Navara and my 2007 79 series V8 the D2a V8 is the "Pick of the Litter" as far as I am concerned off and on road[thumbsupbig]


I don't consider significant engine failure as 'some problems'. It's well documented the issue with liners and thin walls of the engine bores. I didn't have a slipped liner per se, it was more a thin walled bore. I owned my D2 from 2007 until 2018. Looked after like a respectable car owner would and in all fairness it was a soccer mums car. Wasn't used off road. Services at intervals no greater than 10K. Always replaced the oil filter with the oil etc. Replaced parts with genuine parts on nearly every occasion. Trust me, it was very well look after.

I'm not saying every D2 is a piece of crap but any D2V8 is a risky buy especially at the 15+ mark and I would strongly recommend against it. (I recall saying rocks in the head earlier)

Ultimately, if my rig was still going I would still have it but the D2 engines are a total punt. The rest of the car is excellent unfortunately it's the engine that gets you from A to B.

I don't exactly regret buying a D2, just saying you would be nuts to buy one now. Way past the bell curve.

To guys who still have a D2. Best of luck and I hope they bring you many more happy days. Keep living the dream. I can only dream myself. (it wasn't a nightmare even though it might sound that way).

[Dozer2]

Got the rocker covers, upper manifold, and various front bits off so far. Will share a pic of the head gaskets in a few days.


You should look for the thread started by Ozcsott. Heaps of reference material and opinions :whistling: in that thread.

Good informative thread, thanks for suggesting. Did you ever find out what the green mark on your block was? Found one on mine when I did the timing cover bits.

Shell

[PhilipA]

Te colours were marked on the block when they were xrayed to see if the sleeves were centred in the casting.
AFAIR there were red yellow green and the green ie best were keptfor 4.6.
Regards Philip A

[Dozer2]

ANY 15+ year old car is going to have some problems and with ANY 2nd hand vehicle you are taking a certain amount of risk buying it, That's why they are FAR cheaper than a new truck.
I have spent $10,000+ on my D2a V8 over the last 3-4 years on repairs and Modifications But at the end of the day it is probably just as reliable as a new 4WD.

Agree, and this is my intention with my D2. I bought it cheap, suspiciously cheap, because I knew it needed work and factored sump, timing cover, valley gaskets, and eventually heads into my budget. When I'm done it will still be a bargain at around $5000, including purchase price, and having done the work myself, I can be sure of its reliability when complete.

Shell

[trout1105]

Agree, and this is my intention with my D2. I bought it cheap, suspiciously cheap, because I knew it needed work and factored sump, timing cover, valley gaskets, and eventually heads into my budget. When I'm done it will still be a bargain at around $5000, including purchase price, and having done the work myself, I can be sure of its reliability when complete.

Shell

That $5000 budget is pretty optimistic considering the cost of parts alone especially if the truck has already got problems with it.
Yes you can buy Cheap aftermarket parts But as always you will get Exactly what you pay for.
One the first ( and cheapest) things I would be doing is to drain/flush/refill the diffs and the transfer case and give the auto a service because these are usually ignored by Many owners sadly.
If you suspect that the head gaskets are shot then change them out BEFORE you cook the engine and get the heads serviced at the same time.
A lot of components on the D2 are Not serviceable and expensive to replace Maybe look around for GOOD used parts to stretch the budget.
Anyway Most importantly have FUN fixing and driving your D2 [biggrin][thumbsupbig]

[Andrew D]

Te colours were marked on the block when they were xrayed to see if the sleeves were centred in the casting.
AFAIR there were red yellow green and the green ie best were keptfor 4.6.
Regards Philip A

I have heard of blue, yellow and red. Not green.

I have seen a red, a blue and a green but never a yellow.

I had a green short block and it was still poor quality. I'm also under the impression red was the better quality ones. I would think green would be middle of the road with acceptance.

This guys talks a lot but fast forward to 6:58 YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFuP3QsTp0w). (I notice this guys has both a blue and red tag and there is possibly some other secret code here).

To explain the green, maybe LR had excess paint one day and decided to mix the blue and yellow together or alternatively they didn't need three colours to distinguish poor quality. Green = crap, Red = not as crap as green.

[Andrew D]

Why I'm not a fan of the D2 and why people have good reason to give it a pasting.

Should You Rebuild or Replace Your Land Rover V8? - JE Robison Service - Bosch Car Service Specialists — the blog (http://robisonservice.blogspot.com/2013/10/should-you-rebuild-or-replace-your-land.html)

[PhilipA]

OK I just consulted "How to Power Tune Rover V8 Engines "By Des Hammill amnd on page 32 it states

"Blocks with a daub of RED paint or numbers in the range of 2.8, 2.9 or 3.0 written on them are clearly the most desirable(4.6 litre ones)." 3MM is the thickness when the sleeve is centred.

This book is pretty authoritive and the bible for modifying Rover V8s along with teh earlier "Tuning Rover V8 engines" By David Hardcastle which I also have.

Regards Philip A

[ballbag]

Good info. Thanks[emoji106]

[Andrew D]

OK I just consulted "How to Power Tune Rover V8 Engines "By Des Hammill amnd on page 32 it states

"Blocks with a daub of RED paint or numbers in the range of 2.8, 2.9 or 3.0 written on them are clearly the most desirable(4.6 litre ones)." 3MM is the thickness when the sleeve is centred.

This book is pretty authoritive and the bible for modifying Rover V8s along with teh earlier "Tuning Rover V8 engines" By David Hardcastle which I also have.

Regards Philip A


Did it also mention the other colours (blue, yellow and possibly green). I think the green relates to some other tolerance.

[FisherX]

Dude, if it's just a small coolant leak and you have no other issues with the heads why not try some "K Seal" first?

It's the only product I've found to be successful for leaks like that and it really does no harm. You can get it at Supercheap for about $25.

And really if the engine needs all the other things you mentioned you might as well pull the engine and freshen the whole thing up. If you are doing the work yourself that is. I know Britpart has a bad rep, but but their stuff is so cheap! And touch wood, I haven't had any of their stuff fail on me as yet.

[Nick S]

I’ve got a full top end gasket set (Elring) in the garage I don’t need any more since I sold the Rangie
Cheers
Nick

[Dozer2]

Thanks everyone. Conflicting info on the coloured tags there, just going to keep hoping green is acceptable. It is a 4.0L not a 4.6 if that makes any difference. Might check out those books for some future inspiration.

Still going on the head gasket job, just got the heads to come off tomorrow. Have been slowed down by resistant exhaust bolts which needed much soaking in penetrating spray. I didn't break any bolts but found a bolt missing and a random nut glued in the manifold... have found a few surprises from the previous owner. Looks like the heads are weeping coolant at all 4 ends. After removing pumps and mounting brackets from the front the leaks are bigger than I first thought.

I recently flushed the cooling system, including pulling the radiator out for a thorough clean, so no k seal for me. Thanks for the tip though. Got a full gasket set already, thanks for the offer.

Done the diffs, will do the transfer case next. It is leaking and will probably need to come down for a reseal. Haven't needed too many parts, just fluids and gaskets and a few pumps at this stage. I'm enjoying working on the D2, no jack stands needed and it even has a built in seat (the bull bar).

Shell

[Dozer2]

Have tried breaker bars and impact wrenches, normal hex sockets, impact hex sockets, bolt extractor sockets, kincrome's lok on sockets, lots of penetrating spray and tapping with a rubber mallet. Have broken several extension bars. The head bolts won't move, and are becoming damaged on the corners but not rounded yet. If I can't get the bolts out I will have to put it back together without replacing the head gaskets and hope that the coolant seal stuff will work. Any ideas anyone?

Shell

[thai_tiger]

From experience with Triumph Stag head bolts (which are absolute shockers for seizing solid) try tightening the bolts up so as to break the seal other than that we would use a mig welder to form a dome on top of the bolt so as top transfer heat down its length. Sounds like someone has over tightened the bolts to bodge the coolant leak.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

"Blocks with a daub of RED paint or numbers in the range of 2.8, 2.9 or 3.0 written on them are clearly the most desirable(4.6 litre ones)."
Regards Philip A


Ok,, so does anyone actually have an engine with these ^^^^ numbers??

[PhilipA]

Before I refreshed my memory by looking up the book, I hadn't heard of the numbers. I do know the paint is in the valley , but I don't know where the numbers would be.
Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

From experience with Triumph Stag head bolts (which are absolute shockers for seizing solid) try tightening the bolts up so as to break the seal other than that we would use a mig welder to form a dome on top of the bolt so as top transfer heat down its length. Sounds like someone has over tightened the bolts to bodge the coolant leak.



My first thought was "oh ****!" someone has used locktite instead of GM thread sealant. The sealant is only there to stop corrosion as there are no intrusions into the waterways.

BUT the remedy would be the same, some heat if locktite or even that freeze release stuff. And maybe hit them with a decent hammer. They won't break. I pity you getting the LH rear out!
Regards Philip A

[Dozer2]

Thanks for the quick responses. I don't have access to a welder, is there a cheap way to heat the bolts? What is the freeze release stuff? I don't think it is locktite, would have thought my impact wrench with its 360nm of torque would be enough to break locktite. Plus there wasn't anything on the exhaust bolts, so I'm guessing the head bolts went in dry.

My engine number starts with 56D.

Shell

[Pedro_The_Swift]

"Blocks with a daub of RED paint or numbers in the range of 2.8, 2.9 or 3.0 written on them are clearly the most desirable(4.6 litre ones)." 3MM is the thickness when the sleeve is centred.



with apologies to Dozer,,

If the wall thickness of the "best" 4.6 is supposed to be 3mm,,, maybe the 2.8, 2.9 etc are also written in red down in the valley ??,,


also Dozer, your 56D, while in the vicinty of other V8's is in the wrong listing below,,

and missing entirely from this one!
Rover V8 Engine Numbers (https://rimmerbros.com/content--name-Rover-V8-Engine-Numbers)

[Dozer2]

Thanks Pedro. Not sure what to make of that, perhaps the engine has been replaced at some stage. It has automatic transmission. Will see if I can find any other numbers or marks on the block later today.

Shell

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Hard to believe a 18" breaker bar cant shift a head bolt.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

It may be time for a pipe on the breaker bar,, I really cant see heat or cold travelling down a bolt that long with any success ( anyone?? ),, you cant get much more than 100nm on them before the alloy threads strip... you out there Dave?

did you say it was suspiously cheap? [wink11][tonguewink]

[Blknight.aus]

Most likely you are up against galvanic corrosion because thread lube was not applied appropriately,

Go grab a fire blanket and an old school induction heater or a couple of 1000W halogen lamps.


you can try this without removing the sump first but it doing so does get the heat up to the block faster.

Drop the oil, pull the filters, degrease the inside of the block at the bottom.
Place your heater facing up towards the block or the lights under neath.
put the fire blanket over the top of the engine and drape it downwards.
Turn on the heat and wait. you need a couple of hours. Dont let insulation get to melting.
Go the head bolts, you wont be reusing these ones so... With a Big drift and an FBH, smack the head of the bolt in towards the thread. 5 or 6 very hard blows.
put your 12point socket on swing to tighten first and then to loosen long slow application of torque is what you need here. your going to need about 5 foot of bar on it

IF that doesnt work...

using a small butane torch (I usually use the one that goes onto those disposable butane gas bottles for camp stoves) heat the head of the bolt and do the do up undo thing again.

If that doesnt work, AND assuming you have high quality sockets, try a rattle gun.

IF that doesnt work, since you wont be reusing these bolts again.........

grab a center punch a 3, 6 8 and 10mm drill bit and a good drill, it helps to have a bench grinder or a wetstone grinder to resharpen the bits....

Center mark the bolts, drill into the center of the head in 3,6,8 mm down to about 3mm past the shoulder of the bolt (about 13mm) total depth heat the head of the bolt again, and try to undo it, it should either undo OR fracture off if it wont, go the 10mm bit. Then it will BUT, you dont have a lot of margin of error with the 10mm bit.

With the ones that snap off, one you have the head lifted off, grab them with vice grips and undo them, if that wont work, heat them up with the torch and try again, if that doesnt work try an easy out, if that doesnt work, use a stud extractor, if that doesnt work weld a nut onto it and go again.

only turn the bolts about 1/6th of a turn at a time and do them in the reverse sequence of tightening. Then progress about 1/4 then 1/2 a turn and then spin them out.

IF the bolts closer to center are significantly harder or easier then the ones further out you need to check the deck and the heads for square.

[101RRS]

Dozer - you have a 4.0 Low Comp RV8 - your number starting with 56D is the correct prefix. You will note that the two engine number lists posted do not actually have numbers for the D2 (they RR numbers) and the lists on the internet are the same. I have asked Rimmer Bros who have the main list that people go to include D2 numbers.

I have a 4.0 V8 and it starts with 55D so is a little earlier than yours.

Talk of information for a 4.6 is off track just a little as for all intention, the 4.0 and 4.6 are the same engines just different cranks, conrods and pistons - all other hardware is basically the same for the two Thor engines.

The blocks are the same but when built and tested, the ones that were at the minimum standard went into the 4.0. The ones that were the highest standard went into the 4.6 and those whose quality was in the middle went into either engine. As mentioned the valleys of the engine blocks were given a coloured dot to indicate which quality the block was - I dont know what the colours are but the 4.0 I have does not have a coloured dot and the bare 4.6 block I have does not have a dot on it.

All this is a side show to the issue you have - it will either be a simple failed head gasket, warped heads or a more complex block issue such as a slipped liner or stripped threads or cracks. My 4.0 was leaking at the back drivers side and it was a stripped head bolt hole and a crack between the the head bolt hole and the nearby water jacket.

Thinks should be clear once you have the heads off.

Garry

[Andrew D]

Have tried breaker bars and impact wrenches, normal hex sockets, impact hex sockets, bolt extractor sockets, kincrome's lok on sockets, lots of penetrating spray and tapping with a rubber mallet. Have broken several extension bars. The head bolts won't move, and are becoming damaged on the corners but not rounded yet. If I can't get the bolts out I will have to put it back together without replacing the head gaskets and hope that the coolant seal stuff will work. Any ideas anyone?

Shell

Ok, I'm a pretty light chap (72 kg). I used an impact hex socket, breaker bar and the jack handle extension (good pipe extension) from the D2 to break mine.

Are all the bolts tight AF?

They are meant to go in with a very small amount of oil unless they have used ARP Studs (ARP I think have an epoxy).

[Dozer2]

Most likely you are up against galvanic corrosion because thread lube was not applied appropriately


Thanks Dave for the epic list of steps. Will save for all future stuck bolts. I hammered, applied rattle gun, and used a 1.5m fence post over my breaker bar, and now the passenger side head is off. Interestingly though there was a lot of pressure behind the head, was hissing and releasing stale engine smells as I removed the bolts. Once the bolts moved a turn they came out easily.

Thanks Garry for the information on my engine, I hadn't been able to find my engine prefix online. There's a few more green marks in other places on the block too. Good to hear from another Canberran!

Pedro, Andrew, the long pipe did it. Andrew, I'm even smaller than you at 55kg 1.65m so maybe that's why I had trouble getting the bolts out.

Photos showing the worn water jackets on the gasket on the passenger side. No breaks in gaskets but it explains the leaks at the ends.

148766148767

Will do the other side tomorrow.

Shell

[Andrew D]

I'm even smaller than you at 55kg 1.65m so maybe that's why I had trouble getting the bolts out.

I'm guessing you must ride a bike being that light and living in Canberra.

148766148767


The cylinders look good to me. Last thing you want is for the cylinders to be sparkling clean. It does look like the gasket is a bit worn so putting the removal of the head bolts aside it should be a rewarding job.

[Dozer2]

After wasting much time trying grippy sockets and drilling and easy out extractors on the very last stuck bolt, I gave up and called the local bolt guy. He got the bolt out in less than 10 minutes. The head looks as expected, just water jacket leaks, no breaks.

Thanks to everyone for the opinions on whether or not the heads needed doing, and the advice when I was struggling with the stuck bolts. I might not have acted on these leaks or caught this early without the help. Now to get it back together and sell my collection of tap wrenches on eBay.

Shell

148966

[PhilipA]

Make sure that you get ALL the coolant out the bolt holes and chase the threads to make sure there is no sealant in them, or you will not be able to torque the bolts accurately.
I suggest that you us GM sealant when you refit the heads. That will make them easier to remove next time.

Regards Philip A

[LRJim]

After wasting much time trying grippy sockets and drilling and easy out extractors on the very last stuck bolt, I gave up and called the local bolt guy. He got the bolt out in less than 10 minutes. The head looks as expected, just water jacket leaks, no breaks.



148966

What was the bolt mans trick?
Cheers Jim

[Andrew D]

Now onto the fun bits of cleaning the block and heads (plus any things else you want really)


148981


I went the full monty only to find out it was a lower block lemon

148982

[Pedro_The_Swift]

You need a block out of a 4.6 RR...
then swap pistons.... [wink11]

[trout1105]

I went the full monty only to find out it was a lower block lemon
[/LEFT]]

BUGGER[bawl]
Maybe the engine had got too hot too often that has caused this lower end problem.
When my D2a V8 blew a head gasket I shut it down when the temps exceeded 123C and had the truck sent by tilt tray to Whyatts in Geraldton.
I knew I was taking a big risk spending quite a lot of money getting the top end done But I am certain that IF the block was "Compromised" Whyatts would have informed me Before they went any further with the repairs, Luckily the only problem found in the block was a massive build up of sludge in the sump due to the PO Not servicing at regular intervals and the lifters needed to be replaced.
I have done 20k (Mainly towing a 1.5t boat) since the repairs and the engine is still as strong as it ever was and minus all the fluid leaks it used to have[thumbsupbig][bigrolf]

[ballbag]

I went the full monty only to find out it was a lower block lemon



What's the problem?

[Andrew D]

What's the problem?

This YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch'time_continue=32&v=zlRkbeY7_IY)

Not me in the video but same issue and chance for all D2 (especially D2a) to have.



[/QUOTE] Maybe the engine had got too hot too often that has caused this lower end problem. [/QUOTE]

Simple answer is No. The D2a engine in my opinion is a pot luck one. More so than other vehicles. The issue is manufactured into them.

I punted the car to the wreckers.

[ballbag]

Sorry, didn't realise who posted what. Thought you were the OP.

Yeah, ****ty blocks are well documented.

[Dozer2]

Got the heads back from skimming. More of a polish than a skim since they were level and didn't have any problems. Cheaper and faster than expected. Now to replace the valve stem seals and clean up the block before reassembly.



I suggest that you us GM sealant when you refit the heads. That will make them easier to remove next time.
Regards Philip A

Will do. The head shop also suggested a little grease under the head of the bolt to prevent seizing and the squeaky metal noises when tightening bolts. Though I do hope there's not a next time.


What was the bolt mans trick?
Cheers Jim

A different socket and a lot more muscle than me.

Shell

[Dozer2]

Now onto the fun bits of cleaning the block and heads (plus any things else you want really)

I went the full monty only to find out it was a lower block lemon


Heads came up nicely with the shop's part washer. Tempted to send the other bits I took off there for a wash too. Sorry to hear that your block was a lemon after all that work.

Shell

[ozscott]

You are not tamper by an ARP head stud kit?

Cheers

[101RRS]

I thought that if you used a ARB stud kit on an V8 in a D2 you cannot get the heads off and back on with the engine in the engine bay.

However I guess once you have removed the nuts you could screw out the studs as they have an allen key slot in the top.

As the OP will have to buy new stretch bolts to refit the heads, if there is a way to go ARP studs I would definitely be going that route. I have studs on my engine and they are worth the little bit extra.

Garry

[ozscott]

I thought that if you used a ARB stud kit on an V8 in a D2 you cannot get the heads off and back on with the engine in the engine bay.

However I guess once you have removed the nuts you could screw out the studs as they have an allen key slot in the top.

As the OP will have to buy new stretch bolts to refit the heads, if there is a way to go ARP studs I would definitely be going that route. I have studs on my engine and they are worth the little bit extra.

GarryGary I found it quite easy to put the ARP head studs into the block and put the heads on in the bay of my D2. Cleaned block threads and used the supplied thread grease. Stock gaskets. Very happy with outcome. Cheers

[101RRS]

Ok thanks - I dont know D2s it was just something I had heard.

On the basis of what you have said I would definitely put ARP studs in.

[ozscott]

There is a kit for 10 bolt heads on eBay at the moment. Just check part number on ARP web site. Cheers

[101RRS]

Yes the 4.0/4.6 stud kit is different to the 3.5 kit. Not sure the difference other than number of studs but I think the later kit has more threads.

The correct ARP stud kit for the 4.0/4.6 is part number 157-4301 (Rover 3.9L-4.6L V8 W/10 Bolt Heads HSK)

garry

[Dozer2]

Already got the regular bolts, they came with the gasket set. If there's ever a next time I'll consider the studs.

Shell

[biggin]

If you follow the tightening sequence to the letter, you’ll be fine.

[ozscott]

I had a gasket blow within 5000k with bolts. In the factory they tightened them down all at the same time with a machine. Can't be down like that at home. You might get lucky. Plenty don't and later move to studs. Worth the dollars. Cheers.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

TTY are designed to fail... dont waste your time with them.
The only people that use them are the factories. Everyone else has moved on to studs years ago...

[biggin]

Five million is quite a lot, not sure you should be blaming the bolts[emoji6]

[Pedro_The_Swift]

He does get around a bit[bigrolf][smilebigeye]

[Andrew D]

Any update on the progress.

[Dozer2]

Nearly done, just complicated things by snapping the small wire that connects to the alternator and finding leaky master cylinder to reservoir seals. Was getting dripped on when reattaching the exhaust manifold on the driver's side. Otherwise everything else went back together well, though I did have to stand in the engine bay on the diff and frame to get the heads in place.

Got the new seals and reservoir locally from a independent Land Rover mechanic, he had lots of good tips and showed me some of his 7 Land Rovers. He uses bolts, not studs, on heads too.

Will be practicing reattaching terminals to scrap wire tomorrow before fixing the alternator wire. Hopefully will test drive this weekend.

Shell

[ozscott]

Yeah mechanics like bolts for clients because it's a big cost saving and bolts are also much quicker. There is no doubt studs are the superior way to clamp when doing it post-factory.. Cheers

[Dozer2]

Took a while but the head gasket job is now done. Since my last update I have learned that one shouldn't take the inertia switch off the fire wall and place upside down in the engine bay.

Had O2 error codes after the test drive, a clean and cable tie on the connection sorted those.

And I broke the alternator wire, see my other post.

Engine sounds so much quieter and less boat like than before. No leaks so far. Only problem is the ACE pump seems to have failed... the orange ACE light is on, pump won't prime by hand, won't fill using gravity, and doesn't move the fluid in the reservoir. Any ideas anyone?

Shell

[biggin]

I had a gasket blow within 5000k with bolts. In the factory they tightened them down all at the same time with a machine. Can't be down like that at home. You might get lucky. Plenty don't and later move to studs. Worth the dollars. Cheers.

Well I’m convinced, my head gasket just failed after about 5,000km too. Not sure yet if it’s just the gaskets though, it all went pair shaped in an instant. Could be the block.

[Dozer2]

my head gasket just failed after about 5,000km too.

Any signs of coolant leaks? I've heard that adding a line of extra sealant on the water jackets of the head gaskets during replacement can prevent leaks and help soft blocks/heads stay together better, apparently a lot of head gasket replacements fail early without it.

So far my head gasket replacement is holding together and not leaking. Got more power now too. Ended up replacing the ACE pump.

Shell

[Pedro_The_Swift]

sigh..
MLS gaskets, flat clean surfaces, and MORE than 80ftlbs on studs....
and yes I used hylomar on the MLS.. shoot me. [bighmmm]

[biggin]

I wish you piped up about this last year, Pedro. [emoji45]
All done by the book a year ago.
Unfortunately this included no hylomar on the mls gasket, and bolts instead of studs.
I won’t make that mistake again.
And for Dozer, no, still no sign of coolant leaks, or coolant!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Mate[smilebigeye],, Ozscott and I have done nothing but go on about it to each other since 2016,, :lol2:

[biggin]

Sorry Pedro, obviously I thought I knew better at the time. [emoji20]

[ozscott]

Pedro and I agree on studs. Pedro went steel gaskets and spray goo and I went stock German composite gaskets and no spray (but goo built in I guess).

Cheers

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Sorry Pedro, obviously I thought I knew better at the time. [emoji20]

Mate,,dont we all??[bigrolf]
it took me 3 goes to get it right,, the second one of those was thinking a very well known business up my way knew how to build engines...[bigrolf] 5 figures, 8 months and 30K kays later and whaddayaknow,,, they dont.

[trout1105]

Mate,,dont we all??[bigrolf]
it took me 3 goes to get it right,, the second one of those was thinking a very well known business up my way knew how to build engines...[bigrolf] 5 figures, 8 months and 30K kays later and whaddayaknow,,, they dont.

I had the head gaskets, lifters, plugs/leads and cooling system replaced 22,000k's ago and waddayaknow,,,, Everything is still working Perfectly despite 20,000k's towing a 1.5t boat and being fully loaded in 40C+ temps[biggrin]
It depends on where you get the work done that makes the differance[thumbsupbig]

[ozscott]

Yes and no. At the end of the day studs provide superior clamping force - more accurate too in terms of achieving accurate even specs (although like any in situ getting the ones at the firewall isn't easy). I had head gaskets go after 2 very well known LR independents were let loose on the vehicle with new genuine stretch bolts.
Pedro I am never going back to the place our vehicles were sleeping at...we had our head gaskets done at the same time. Against my better judgement I'm trying a mob a little further south to see if they have improved. I enjoyed doing my own head gaskets. A good machine shop helps for dressing the heads.

Nearly 2.5 years and 40,000k including towing a 2 tonn boat around and some serious low range work in Qld summers. Its already outlasted the experts' head gasket work...
Cheers

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I know I would really enjoy building one from scratch,, not gunna happen any time soon,, but its dream I wont let go of[wink11]

[biggin]

Pedro, what is it that you had to replace that cost 5 figures?
I think I maybe heading into that territory.

[101RRS]

Recently build a 4.6 out of a 4.0. Used studs which was a lot easier than bolts and safer on the block.

Used standard head gaskets (Elring?) but sealant only around the water passages (but I cannot see why not to give the entire gasket a squirt as well) - evidence on the 4.0 block showed the gaskets had held up well but there were coolant leaks around the coolant passages so hence the sealant there - same with the tin valley gasket when it is time to put the inlet manifold on.

Engine has not covered a lot of kms but seems to be holding up well.

Garry

[ozscott]

Yep Elring are the Stockers. German made composite gasket.

I think the confidence that studs brings is worth their $300 approx asking price...and you can re-use them.

Cheers

[Pedro_The_Swift]

...and you can re-use them.

Cheers

at least 3 times!! [bigrolf]