REMOVING ADBLU SYSTEM

[Bigbjorn]

Does anyone know if it is possible to remove the Adblu system from a late model anything and how to fudge the management system, into thinking it is still functioning? Have you or anyone you know done this? Yes, I know it would be an illegal modification.

[Homestar]

I know of some truck drivers that have managed to do this. At the end of the day, you just need to fudge a sensor input same as with a VSS in a truck - I'm guessing there are plenty out there that know how to do it.

[DiscoMick]

It would make your vehicle unroadworthy and could have insurance implications.

[101RRS]

Yes, I know it would be an illegal modification.


It would make your vehicle unroadworthy and could have insurance implications.

I think he knows that [thumbsupbig]

[DiscoMick]

His choice then.
Some people I speak with don't realise mods like that make the vehicle unroadworthy, which I guess means they aren't aware of or don't take seriously the laws about emissions and roadworthiness.
It's like people don't tell their insurer they have modded a vehicle and then wonder why the insurance company uses the mods as an excuse to deny insurance claims.
So, not trying to be a nag, just giving consumer advice I hope is helpful.

[Homestar]

His choice then.
Some people I speak with don't realise mods like that make the vehicle unroadworthy, which I guess means they aren't aware of or don't take seriously the laws about emissions and roadworthiness.
It's like people don't tell their insurer they have modded a vehicle and then wonder why the insurance company uses the mods as an excuse to deny insurance claims.
So, not trying to be a nag, just giving consumer advice I hope is helpful.

Just like the thousands of trucks running around with their VSS bypassed, thousands with oversized tyres on their 4x4's and a lot of us here with leaky old Land Rovers - technically unroadworthy so exactly the same in the eyes of the law - all choices and risks that some are willing to take.

[goingbush]

If you have a look at the compliance plate on a Euro 6 Iveco Daily , it has Australian Euro 4 Complance , I would think most NB1 / NB2 vehicles are the same (category is on your compliance plate)

For Example , This late Model Euro6 , is Fitted with EGR, CAT- DPF, Adblue & SCR . is Certified in Australia as Euro 4 ---> Road Vehicle Descriptor (RVD1) (https://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/perl/37140_1297285_RVD_07Feb2019103018.cmd)

AdBlue, DPF . SCR are not a requirement of Euro 4 . Only thing that is needed for E4 = EGR .
Pulling all that crap off & keeping EGR still makes it technically compliant.

AdBlue Emulators are available online.

To be sure about your particular vehicle it will say Euro 4 / Euro 5 etc on the Australian compliance plate, Enter the compliance approval number on RVCS Database Certification Unit Search (https://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.Notify_Search)

[scarry]

It would make your vehicle unroadworthy and could have insurance implications.

I was at the local Tojo dealer last week,dropping off one of the vans,and the service manager was telling me they are getting quite a few vehicles in for services with the DPF removed completely.These are new vehicles under warranty,mainly Hi luxes and 70 series.

They turn them away and put a note on the computer against the vehicle.[thumbsupbig]

[loanrangie]

I couldn't count the number of dual cabs I see with huge exhausts that no doubt have the cat and egr valves removed, bellowing clouds of black smoke.

[trout1105]

I couldn't count the number of dual cabs I see with huge exhausts that no doubt have the cat and egr valves removed, bellowing clouds of black smoke.

The black smoke is usually Caused by the EGR.

[goingbush]

I couldn't count the number of dual cabs I see with huge exhausts that no doubt have the cat and egr valves removed, bellowing clouds of black smoke.

Yes, exactly. But does not need to be the case. I have removed & blanked EGR to enable fitment of Exhaust Brake, & removed DPF because it needs EGR to regenerate correctly , Exhaust pipe is nice & silver grey almost like a petrol engine. Blows no smoke nor leaves soot under truck whatsoever. Oil stays golden brown well past 10,000km after oil change ( was black after 50km with EGR) . Its all in the EEV tune .

Iveco also voided my warranty I might add. But thats well & truly expired now anyway.

[DiscoMick]

Or over-fuelling.

[DiscoMick]

I was at the local Tojo dealer last week,dropping off one of the vans,and the service manager was telling me they are getting quite a few vehicles in for services with the DPF removed completely.These are new vehicles under warranty,mainly Hi luxes and 70 series.

They turn them away and put a note on the computer against the vehicle.[thumbsupbig]What is the effect? Is Toyota refusing to honour the warranty because the DPF has been removed.

[Homestar]

I would imagine so. They would be able to claim that the missing DPF would have an effect on the engine somehow. Given the DPF seems to be the biggest issue with these vehicles (not that I've had any trouble with mine) I can see why some would remove them rather than spend the money on a replacement or even just to prevent the weekly smoke screens they vehicles produce.

[scarry]

What is the effect? Is Toyota refusing to honour the warranty because the DPF has been removed.

An easy get out for any warranty claim.There is more that has to be modded than just removing the DPF,as fault codes come up,etc.

I think their are legalities involved as well,as its part of the emissions system.

I know,people mod vehicles all the time,even my D4 has the Egr's deleted and blanked.[bighmmm]

But i wouldn't do something like removing the DPF,then take it to the dealer for a service,thats asking for issues,in my opinion.

And as a side note,some of our vans have DPF's,never had an issue.They have a switch to initiate a burn off if needed,we have never had to use it.Probably as Homestar said,due to the driving we do,they are on the road all day.

[DiscoMick]

If the DPF was removed then the vehicle no longer complies with the roadworthy conditions required when it was new, so I can understand Toyota saying it wouldn't honour the warranty on a vehicle which the owner has made unroadworthy. I expect making it unroadworthy would also make the insurance invalid. Is that right?

[scarry]

If the DPF was removed then the vehicle no longer complies with the roadworthy conditions required when it was new, so I can understand Toyota saying it wouldn't honour the warranty on a vehicle which the owner has made unroadworthy. I expect making it unroadworthy would also make the insurance invalid. Is that right?

Probably,but many people don't care.

Another good example is the number of vehicles on the roads that have huge lifts and big wheels with massive negative offsets.

A lot more obvious than a DPF that is missing.

[goingbush]

You can punch out the guts of a DPF leave the housing intact and the dealer would never know , It wont block up & the software wont detect any pressure build up across the front and back so wont need to run a Regen burn.

It just so happens a Gearing Dynamics exhaust brake fits perfectly one the flange on the back of my DPF so I left it there.


https://youtu.be/QarbQatiGAM

[DiscoMick]

Doesn't make it legal.

[Homestar]

Doesn't make it legal.

Like everything it's only illegal if you get caught... [emoji6]

[DiscoMick]

Actually, its illegal no matter if you are caught or not.
I realise I sound like a spoilsport, and really I don't care - its all on the owner, not me. And on the thousands of people who suffer breathing illnesses every year because of vehicle pollution caused in part by people modifying their vehicles and ignoring the emissions laws.
Anyway, rant over.

[trout1105]

Actually, its illegal no matter if you are caught or not.
I realise I sound like a spoilsport, and really I don't care - its all on the owner, not me. And on the thousands of people who suffer breathing illnesses every year because of vehicle pollution caused in part by people modifying their vehicles and ignoring the emissions laws.
Anyway, rant over.

According to your profile your 2009 Defender has been "Chipped" which will alter the factory emissions settings so you yourself are doing the same as the people you are moaning about with their EGR deletes, Talk about throwing stones in glass houses[bigwhistle]

[goingbush]

Actually, its illegal no matter if you are caught or not.
I realise I sound like a spoilsport, and really I don't care - its all on the owner, not me. And on the thousands of people who suffer breathing illnesses every year because of vehicle pollution caused in part by people modifying their vehicles and ignoring the emissions laws.
Anyway, rant over.

As I pointed out before In Australia NB1 & NB2 vehicles are still being plated as EURO4 , DPF not needed to comply with EURO4 , so technically still comply . Although the EPA say its illegal to alter the emissions system "without just cause" .


Actually its been shown that the microscopic particles emitted during a DPF regen burn are far more dangerous to human health that larger soot particles. This is why ALL diesel are being banned from 2030 , DPF , Adbule etc does not actually work, its another con job.

The DPF particles enter your bloodstream directly through your skin , The Soot from pre DPF vehicles need to go via your lungs . Whats the better of 2 evils.

DPF particulates (PM2.5 ) are even affecting unborn children.
Traffic pollution putting unborn babies' health at risk, warn experts | BMJ (https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/traffic-pollution-putting-unborn-babies-health-at-risk-warn-experts/)

Effects of prenatal exposure to diesel exhaust particles on postnatal development, behavior, genotoxicity and inflammation in mice (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2323399/)

That should be "just cause" enough to satisfy the EPA. was well as numerous other health, safety and financial reasons.

I'll never buy another Diesel powered vehicle, and most likely will never buy another ICE engine of any type.

[DiscoMick]

According to your profile your 2009 Defender has been "Chipped" which will alter the factory emissions settings so you yourself are doing the same as the people you are moaning about with their EGR deletes, Talk about throwing stones in glass houses[bigwhistle]Doesn't have Adblue or DPF though.

[ChookD2]

If your vehicle is using DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid, Adblue) then it wouldn't be running DPF as well. SCR, Selective Catalitic Reduction is the process that uses DEF so technically is one system not two. I have driven trucks with DEF and it is a PITA, the Mack got a blocked muffler twice, boss not happy at $750 a throw. Had just as much trouble with DPFs on the Kenworths running Cummins engines.

The solution with the Mack was to access the computer and reduce the amount of DEF being applied to the lowest available, a poofteenth of a mil I believe. Took ages to run through a 200 litre tank after that. The Kenworth solution, pull the DPFs out and clean them with solvent and hose them out and dry them. Not really kosher but both solutions were the most economical in a business sense.

The reason that these polutants suddenly started making an impact is because the population density increased, which in turn increase the number exposed, which in turn increased the number of complaints. This same increase in population densities also increased the number of vehicles on the road in these higher density areas.

To be honest we just have too many people on the planet and it is not going to get any better.

P.S. Cummins did away with DPF and went to SCR

[goingbush]

If your vehicle is using DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid, Adblue) then it wouldn't be running DPF as well. SCR, Selective Catalitic Reduction is the process that uses DEF so technically is one system not two. I have driven trucks with DEF and it is a PITA, the Mack got a blocked muffler twice, boss not happy at $750 a throw. Had just as much trouble with DPFs on the Kenworths running Cummins engines.

The solution with the Mack was to access the computer and reduce the amount of DEF being applied to the lowest available, a poofteenth of a mil I believe. Took ages to run through a 200 litre tank after that. The Kenworth solution, pull the DPFs out and clean them with solvent and hose them out and dry them. Not really kosher but both solutions were the most economical in a business sense.

The reason that these polutants suddenly started making an impact is because the population density increased, which in turn increase the number exposed, which in turn increased the number of complaints. This same increase in population densities also increased the number of vehicles on the road in these higher density areas.

To be honest we just have too many people on the planet and it is not going to get any better.

P.S. Cummins did away with DPF and went to SCR

Yes the world has way too many people, What happened to Agenda 21?

Are you sure about SCR not needing DPF ?

http://www.airbluefluids.com/images/SCR-System2.png



SCR does not have a DPF function

[goingbush]

.

[ChookD2]

I'm no mechanic and can only tell what I experienced with large trucks. I don't believe the Mack had a DPF, which probably accounts for the muffler getting blocked. It was my understanding that through the catalytic process, particulates were reduced along with NOx (nitrogen oxide). I can tell you if you run out of Adblue (in a Mack) the engine goes in to limp mode and there are fault codes related to NOx sensors and the like, ask me how I know[bigsad].

[ChookD2]

The Mack I had would be very early in the scheme of adblue, about a 2011 model, IIRC.
Maybe DPF has since been included in order to rid the world of more evil diesel emissions.

[Bagoo76]

If you have a look at the compliance plate on a Euro 6 Iveco Daily , it has Australian Euro 4 Complance , I would think most NB1 / NB2 vehicles are the same (category is on your compliance plate)

For Example , This late Model Euro6 , is Fitted with EGR, CAT- DPF, Adblue & SCR . is Certified in Australia as Euro 4 ---> Road Vehicle Descriptor (RVD1) (https://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/perl/37140_1297285_RVD_07Feb2019103018.cmd)

AdBlue, DPF . SCR are not a requirement of Euro 4 . Only thing that is needed for E4 = EGR .
Pulling all that crap off & keeping EGR still makes it technically compliant.

AdBlue Emulators are available online.

To be sure about your particular vehicle it will say Euro 4 / Euro 5 etc on the Australian compliance plate, Enter the compliance approval number on RVCS Database Certification Unit Search (https://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.Notify_Search)

No it doesn’t make it compliant. If the vehicle was sold new (e.g. manufactured) with ADBLUE system then it is a requirement to use it. Same applies with most components of a vehicle

[mark2]

Actually, its illegal no matter if you are caught or not.
I realise I sound like a spoilsport, and really I don't care - its all on the owner, not me. And on the thousands of people who suffer breathing illnesses every year because of vehicle pollution caused in part by people modifying their vehicles and ignoring the emissions laws.
Anyway, rant over.

Have you thought about fitting a DPF to your Landrover? It might make a difference..

[INter674]

I heard John Deere tractor sellers here in Tas have a few machines in for repair that have caught fire due to the dpf burner igniting grass under the machine. I also heard that the dealer has permission from JD to remove the unit as they are not legally required.

Interestingly this guy sells New Holland and he said NH don't care if the ad blue system is by passed and on some models they simply let it run out. Others adjust the feed to get more power out of the engine.

My mate bought a new Cruiser and the dealer offered to fit twin snorkels to overcome the dud Intake system and offered to chip the motor as they tow a v large van. The warranty still stands but they had to hand over another thou or two!

Seems like raffertys rules apply as another mate had his 79 series black banned by Yota cause he had chipped it and modded the rear suspension and axle width.

Nothing is black and white!

[goingbush]

The Iveco Daily 4x4 handbook says "Don't drive over or park on dry grass , leaf matter etc due to risk of fire" Its repeated a few times.

So much for using it as a 4x4 . The DPF regen temperatures are close to 800c Dry grass ignites around 250c .

[AndyG]

Actually, its illegal no matter if you are caught or not.
I realise I sound like a spoilsport, and really I don't care - its all on the owner, not me. And on the thousands of people who suffer breathing illnesses every year because of vehicle pollution caused in part by people modifying their vehicles and ignoring the emissions laws.
Anyway, rant over.

You mean people who fit things like Steinbauer chip

[fredd63]

I was at the local Tojo dealer last week,dropping off one of the vans,and the service manager was telling me they are getting quite a few vehicles in for services with the DPF removed completely.These are new vehicles under warranty,mainly Hi luxes and 70 series.

They turn them away and put a note on the computer against the vehicle.[thumbsupbig]

Was reading an article yesterday that toyota is having a lot of trouble with DPFs, mainly that they are performing their burns at odd times, such as after a 3 hour freeway drive, when you pull up at a set of lights.

[DiscoMick]

You mean people who fit things like Steinbauer chipFirstly, I didn't fit the Steinbauer chip, the previous owner did.
Secondly, I read that Steinbauer chips don't change the emissions. They just extend the duration of the fuel burn, so the same amount of emissions are emitted for each litre of fuel. Other chips try to push more fuel into the time, increasing the amount of unburnt fuel.
So I don't see a problem.

Steinbauer Power Modules - Pat Callinan's 4X4 Adventures (https://mr4x4.com.au/steinbauer-power-modules/)

[DiscoMick]

No increase in fuel rail pressure. No change to the engine ECU. Just a signal to increase the duration of the fuel cycle.

STEINBAUER Power Modules | Diesel Care Australia (https://www.dieselcare.com.au/service/steinbauer-power-modules/)

[Old Farang]

Does anyone know if it is possible to remove the Adblu system from a late model anything and how to fudge the management system, into thinking it is still functioning? Have you or anyone you know done this? Yes, I know it would be an illegal modification.
Can't tell you how to remove it, but I can tell you that all current model diesel Land Rovers sold in Thailand are ordered from the factory sans the Adblue system. The country is supposed to be Euro 4 compliant, so not required, in addition to Adblue not being readily available here.

[Old Farang]

Just discovered this on the Internet. Lazada is an online shopping site a bit like eBay.



AdblueOBD2 is a Plug & Drive Ready device to emulate working adBlue systems and NOx sensors on trucks, which equipped with EURO 4/5/6

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