REVISIT COOLANT EXPELLED FROM EXPANSION TANK. PROBABLE CAUSE

[Journeytower]

Hi Guys,
I think I have an expensive problem. After just completing (at least I completed it) a trip of around 9,000km from Urunga to Adelaide, to have a rear tail shaft replaced after the centre support bearing bracket broke near Yunta in SA, up through the Flinders to Innaminka then inland QLD to Bowen & back home also inland, I have to face up to a problem that developed early in the piece.

When driving with the caravan attached at around 90 to 95kph after a few hours coolant blows out of the radiator cap on the expansion tank. If I drive at 80 to 85kph no coolant is expelled. If there happens to be long pulls up hills at the 80 to 85kph coolant will be expelled. So this problem occurs while under load. Prior to the trip I could drive all day unloaded at 100 to (rarely? 110kph with no problem.

I have replaced 3 radiator caps with the same result. Radiator is not blocked from the outside & no signs of contamination of the coolant & coolant seems to flow freely through the expansion tank. No indications of excess temperature rise either by the temp gauge or "feel" of the engine heat under the bonnet. Please... no snipes about "feel", it's a sense after being in, under & around vehicles for a very long time.

I am not experienced with these engines & information I have received suggests this could be an indication of early stages of head gasket failure. The suggestion has also been made that it is not viable to replace head gaskets but to replace the whole engine. I come from a different age & this seems a little extreme although I can understand that there are often run on problems that can arise. It is a 2007 D3, 220,000km, belts & oil pump replaced, coolant distribution plastic junction replaced with billet item. Coolant changed a couple of times since I've had it.

Any & all constructive feed back & suggestions will be welcome.

Regards, Wayne

[shanegtr]

Cant help you much with your specific problem, but don't expect to much movement from the factory temp gauge. Mine doesn't move at all when in operation but when I hook up my IID tool theres quiet a range of temps from the coolant when in operation. And I agree with you that it seems stupid to have to chuck an engine just for a head gasket.

Do you get the same issue happening when the engine is not under high load?

[loanrangie]

Could also be failing viscous fan clutch, water pump and internally blocked radiator. If it were gasket failure i would expect it to happen more frequently and not just under load.

[scarry]

As said,you need to get a GAP tool and check the vehicle while it is operating.
No only does it read coolant temps,it also shows Rad fan cycling and heaps of other things.
Mine syncs to my iPad,so sitting in the passenger seat,while someone is driving,data can be checked or even recorded.

The Rad fan is viscous with an electric override,they have been known to fail.

I wouldn't drive the vehicle until the issue is sorted,or more damage could occur.

[Journeytower]

Cant help you much with your specific problem, but don't expect to much movement from the factory temp gauge. Mine doesn't move at all when in operation but when I hook up my IID tool theres quiet a range of temps from the coolant when in operation. And I agree with you that it seems stupid to have to chuck an engine just for a head gasket.

Do you get the same issue happening when the engine is not under high load?


Yes it's a bit dodgy the temp gauge, in line with modern simplicity ( !! ) the temp gauge just sits in the middle if the temp is within a certain range, stays on cool until it reaches the appropriate temp & then goes up past the middle, when it is too late.

Same issue does not appear to happen when not under load, but to be honest I haven't really had the chance to test it without the van on since I've returned. However a good point & thanks for the question. I'll try to give it a run later today or tomorrow when I can give it a good run down the highway.

[Journeytower]

Thanks very much for the input guys. All good points to consider. A GAP tool, I'm guessing that's an acronym. Are these diagnostic tools an item that would be used frequently, are they expensive & are there a number of different diagnostic tools with different features & costs ?
I'm wondering about pros & cons of owning your own tool or taking the vehicle to someone that is very familiar with the use of them & the vehicle in question. Especially since I no longer work & have to watch the budget very closely. Either way I'll be making sure diagnosis is carried out before diving in the deep end.

Does anyone have information on the replacement of head gaskets on these motors or is it a case of replacing the motor ?

Regards,
Wayne

[scarry]

Just google IID tool,Gap Tool for Disco 3/4,And you will find out more about them and costs.
From memory mine was around $600 or a bit less.
It plugs in under the dash on the drivers side of the vehicle and will sync to an iPad ,mobile,or whatever.

It will also read and reset fault codes which is very important if doing remote area travel

An important piece of kit,if you are going to keep the vehicle for a while.

[loanrangie]

Just google IID tool,Gap Tool for Disco 3/4,And you will find out more about them and costs.
From memory mine was around $600 or a bit less.
It plugs in under the dash on the drivers side of the vehicle and will sync to an iPad ,mobile,or whatever.

It will also read and reset fault codes which is very important if doing remote area travel

An important piece of kit,if you are going to keep the vehicle for a while.

Over $700 now for either the GAP or Nanocom, there are cheaper options but not as comprehensive as those 2.

[oldsalt]

Hi Wayne, just sent you a PM re "fault code reader"

cheers

[Journeytower]

Hi Guys, A brief recap. I have a 2006 D3 2.7D. We went for an extended trip & after a few hours driving towing the caravan coolant would be expelled from the coolant expansion tank. No signs of excess heat, no high temp gauge, no limp mode. Quite worrying. The car could be driven all day without the van & no problem at all so issue only under load. First enquiries while on the trip in South Australia indicated this could be the first signs of a blown head gasket & the consequent result being to replace the engine !!! I'm still having difficulty with that. Subsequent enquiries & valuable information gained from this site indicated the same.
I tried just about everything including radiator & thermostat & a few caps replacement, diagnosis including testing for coolant in exhaust or combustion gas in coolant etc. Problem persisted.
I was looking down the barrel of replacing the motor & had a conversation regarding this with the guys at MR Automotive, Redcliffe. QLD. They told me they have had problems with aftermarket coolant expansion tanks & no longer use them & suggested a test I do. I did the test which was to get the engine hot & see if I could lift the radiator cap slightly off the thread & he said it would take a fair pull. I managed to get the cap to jump one thread. I figured a young guy on the tools full time would have a grip something like mine was 25 or 30 years ago when on the tools so I elected to purchase an OEM coolant expansion tank.
The day it arrived I installed the tank, bled the coolant system & hooked up the caravan & took it for a drive of around 100 km. The drive was mostly uphill with ambient temperatures at 40 on the steepest part & around 37 the rest. I drove as hard as I was capable or game to & when finally stopped with great trepidation I opened the bonnet & checked & there was absolutely no coolant expelled. I had to look a couple of times & then go back later & look again after I'd had a beer. The car had expelled coolant previously on a part of this same run on a much cooler day.
It appears the material of the aftermarket & cheaper expansion tank must have a different expansion rate & under heat & pressure will allow the cap to jump a thread which will reduce the boiling point & allow coolant to escape via the thread rather than the pressure release valve allowing pressure only to escape & then redraw when cooling.
At this time I feel the problem is resolved & will be completely satisfied when I've done a thousand or so km.

Hopefully this may be of assistance to someone in a similar situation to at least try. Apologies for the length but tried to cover in as much detail but briefly. Feel free to contact me if you would like more info or clarification.

I must make special mention to MR Automotive at Redcliffe QLD, very helpful, courteous & knowledgeable & also do a thorough engine change over if necessary at very competitive rate.
Also, British Off Road, Sunshine Coast QLD. Also very helpful & knowledgeable. They have a completely reconditioned 2.7D motor for exchange & also do a supply & fit also at an attractive price for a fully recon motor.
All 4X4 at Kotara NSW also do engine swaps & include comprehensive set up including new belts. None of the above simply slot a replacement motor in, they do comprehensive checks to protect themselves & the purchaser.

I hope I'm inside the guidelines with this. Regards, Wayne

[loanrangie]

Fingers crossed for you, out of interest whats the mileage ?

[Journeytower]

Fingers crossed for you, out of interest whats the mileage ?

220,000 km.
Yep, I've got a couple of other things crossed as well but at least through the whole exercise I've learnt a few more things & found a few more knowledgeable & helpful people. And hard as it is, with the darling wife's assistance, accepted that if it came to a motor job we would just accept it & move on. Can't get away from these Landrovers, like a drug. Which I've never had of course.
[bigsmile]

[SeanC]

220,000 km.
Yep, I've got a couple of other things crossed as well but at least through the whole exercise I've learnt a few more things & found a few more knowledgeable & helpful people. And hard as it is, with the darling wife's assistance, accepted that if it came to a motor job we would just accept it & move on. Can't get away from these Landrovers, like a drug. Which I've never had of course.
[bigsmile]

There is a saying "Get your children hooked on Land Rovers. They will never have enough money for a drug habit." Maybe owning a Land Rover has kept you on the straight and narrow. Who know where you would have ended up if you owned something else.[bigwhistle]