Radiator and AirFlow issues caused by Large Spotlights?

[Robmacca]

Guys....

Just want to gain others experiences and opinions in regards to Spotlights (large) mounted on Bullbars and the possible effect on AirFlow to Radiator and the consequences on engine running Temps.....
The photo below is of the front of mine. It came with Lightforce 240 Blitz Spotties which in my opinion are too large and could possibly effect engine running temps.

The performance of the Lightforce spotties is nothing flash and I'm thinking of replacing them with a LED Lightbar that will do both distance and spread. The height of the lightbar is about 90mm and this will sit nicely between the bullbar uprights. Not sure whether this will also affect the airflow into the radiator as well, hopefully not as bad as what I have currently...

Comments/ideas/experiences??

[Tote]

A couple of thoughts, Firstly I haven't had any issues with my lightforce XGTs causing airflow issues on either the Defender or the D3 that I am aware of. Secondly, the bulbs on the lightforce lights lose their efficiency and go duller after a period of time. Before you consider a light bar I'd spend some dollars on a new pair of globes. Having said that I don't reckon that the lightforces are that much better than the Rallye 2000s on SWMBOs jeep that were my old ones.

Regards,
Tote

[PhilipA]

Of Course they do!
Regards Philip A

[DiscoMick]

Had those 240s on our D1. When the electric fans failed on the Cape, we removed the 240s to increase airflow. That made it possible to drive the D1 all the way back to Brisbane without electric fans.
On our Defender I have fitted a lightbar instead. No effect on cooling airflow and I prefer the whiter LED light.
So I'd say go for it.

[POD]

I have a pair of bull lightss, which appear similar in size to your lights, plus a winch control box in front of the grille on my 130. I wondered about the airflow but have operated in extreme heat without any problems.

[filcar]

I've got a pair of Fyrlyts about the same size in the same position along with a winch control box, negligible effect on temps according to my ultra gauge

[alan48]

Hi there was a very good video on the comparison with spotties as you have mounted and above or removed from bull bar by that fellow who does expedition videos comparing Toyotas with Defenders in Africa-- Andrew St Pierre in 4XOverland series actually proved lower temps without spotties mounted directly in front of the radiator, and this would certainly be an advantage on a 300tdi re temp issues. So lightbar above the radiator area would seem the way.

[Robmacca]

For those of you who have the large spotties mounted and reckon that there's no effect on your running Temps - Curious, but how do u know?

The normal Dash Temp gauge won't tell u or warn u of any increase in running Temp so I was wondering if u guys were running a ScanGauge of some sort that gave u a digital display...
My car came with these spotties so I've got nothing to compare to before but I guess I can remove the spotties and see if there's any difference in the SGII readings when driving. It makes sense that the BIG spotties should affect the engine running temps to some degree but would a replacing the BIG Spotties with a double row LED lightbar "in the same place" to be any different??

Apparently, LED Lightbars can't be mounted above the bullbar legally.....

[Grappler]

For those of you who have the large spotties mounted and reckon that there's no effect on your running Temps - Curious, but how do u know?

The normal Dash Temp gauge won't tell u or warn u of any increase in running Temp so I was wondering if u guys were running a ScanGauge of some sort that gave u a digital display...
My car came with these spotties so I've got nothing to compare to before but I guess I can remove the spotties and see if there's any difference in the SGII readings when driving. It makes sense that the BIG spotties should affect the engine running temps to some degree but would a replacing the BIG Spotties with a double row LED lightbar "in the same place" to be any different??

Apparently, LED Lightbars can't be mounted above the bullbar legally.....

I have 2 similar lights and winch control box on 2.2 130 and was worried about air flow. I noticed no difference monitoring with an Ultragauge before or after. The temp ranges between 85 and 97 deg depending on engine load. This fluctuation doesnt register on the instrument gauge and the needle remains in the middle. The higher temps are from long uphills and being too lazy to gear down not restricted air flow

[filcar]

I have 2 similar lights and winch control box on 2.2 130 and was worried about air flow. I noticed no difference monitoring with an Ultragauge before or after. The temp ranges between 85 and 97 deg depending on engine load. This fluctuation doesnt register on the instrument gauge and the needle remains in the middle. The higher temps are from long uphills and being too lazy to gear down not restricted air flow

Same on my My2012 D90 with a BAS 170 tune, temp on the ultra gauge moves between 82 and 100 with mostly around 89

[trout1105]

I imagine a lot would depend on the ambient temp's you are operating in.
If you are running in the low 30's or below the lights or whatever other kit you have blocking the airflow wouldn't make too much difference But once you get up into the high 30's and 40+ it can make quite a big difference especially if towing.
I recently did a trip up to the Gulf country Nt/Qld border and 40C+ was the usual temp and I found that by removing the 9in spots from the bullbar my D2a ran about 2-3C cooler.[thumbsupbig]
Driving at night without the spots was terrible though so I have now modified my grill to allow more airflow and have fitted a set of 7in lights, This seems to be working well so far at 40C+ temps

[rick130]

IMO and from the testing I've done Defenders have air flow issues getting the air out of the engine bay.
300Tdi's (and TD5's?) in particular needed the viscous fan in really good condition to keep things cool at speed under load.
Ram air wasn't enough.

Improve that and the spotties in front wont impact as badly.

You need to get it out before you can get it in.
So to speak. [emoji23]

[DiscoMick]

Our 300Tdi D1 would run fine just on the viscous fan at speed if the air-con was turned off. Turn on the air-con and the electric fans started.
In a Defender, the aim is to have a low pressure area around the engine to suck more high pressure air through the radiator and increase cooling.
That's why bonnet cents are a bad idea as they push high pressure air into the back if the engine, which reduces the amount of high pressure air coming through the radiator and so decreases cooling.
Pressure tries to equalise. That's why Range Rovers have side vents in the guards, to let air out if the engine bay. It's also why Defenders have vents in the tops of the guards.

[rick130]

The vents in the top of the guards don't work as vents Mick, the flow is really messy with quite a bit of reversion when I've wool tuft tested them.

Side of guard vents work really well though, it's a good low pressure area.

[edit] and bonnet vents work if they are above and just behind the radiator/fan and aren't an external scoop but something like a reverse facing naca duct, etc. It's an area of laminar flow and so is relatively low pressure.
As you get closer to the windscreen the pressure increases as the air packs up at the windscreen base.
This is how the reverse facing bonnet scoops worked on A9X Toranas, XC Falcon Hardtops, etc.
It was a high pressure zone that was tapped to feed air to the carbies.

[dromader driver]

well you made my morning.Laminar flow and Defender in the same article.
Think should be low pressure not laminar. [bigrolf]

[DiscoMick]

I knew nothing about laminar flow until your reference made me research it.
Laminar airflow over a box like a Defender would be rather crazy, maybe?
Does the laminar airflow over an engine act like the airflow over a wing? So then I guess the air under the rear of the Defender bonnet would want to escape upwards?

[PhilipA]

You could check whether the problem is inflow or outflow by finding the pressure drop from the front of the radiator to the rear of it.
this can be easily done with a megahelic pressure gauge with the inlet placed in front of the radiator and then rear with the gauge inside the vehicle which should be atmospheric pressure.

regards Philip A
not much drop is bad lots of drop good.

[rick130]

Laminar as in straight, so any opening to that flow experiences a low pressure zone.

[Robmacca]

Wow... now we are getting technical....

I think I'll be removing the large Lightforce 240 Blitz due to the fact that I reckon they're past their used by date due to poor light output...imo

[gruntfuttock]

I have the 240 blitz on mine and it runs between 89 and 92 degrees winter / summer 43 degree days or 10 degrees.
Have a nanocom for temperature checking

[trout1105]

I have the 240 blitz on mine and it runs between 89 and 92 degrees winter / summer 43 degree days or 10 degrees.
Have a nanocom for temperature checking

Are you towing when these temps are recorded?

[gruntfuttock]

No I was not.

[Barraman]

I've got a pair of Fyrlyts about the same size in the same position along with a winch control box, negligible effect on temps according to my ultra gauge

Ditto!

[Trekker]

I have redarc oil, coolant and engine block temperature gauges. After fitting two 6” and one 9” lights there was absolutely no difference.

[AndyG]

I had two Super Oscars (75w HID) and a winch in front of my radiator. Using Ultragauge and TMS, temps always seem to be mid to high 90's. Removed the Lights and now low to mid 90's. Not sure how much difference it really makes, but i feel more comfortable about it. Have gone for a light bar tucked up high under the bar.
So if you have the ability to monitor temperatures closely it probably does not make a lot of difference either way.

[Dorian]

In my D2, I had similiar problems to a previous poster, the fans wern't working properly so I took the spoties off to get me by while I sorted it out.
I was working around St George, Qld in January at the time, a couple of days had to drive with the heater on. Ended up being a dodgy relay.

I would have thougt that the main indicator to be looking for was how hard the electric fans were working.
Because the air flow is restricted the fans would be on full time, rather than whatever % they were designed for. ( I use the term "designed" loosely)

Cheers Glen

[trout1105]

IF the airflow through the grill is of No consequence and blocking it doesn't make any difference then why is it on the truck in the first place?[bigwhistle]
Maintaining a Good airflow over the radiators is vital as far as I am concerned especially at low speed/low range when the engine/gearbox are working hard so that the viscus fan can do its job, Restricting the airflow can only be detrimental and restricting it isn't the Best practice.
Also when towing the engine and the gearbox are working much harder and they tend to run hotter So restricting the airflow Can create problems with overheating issues especially in high ambient temps.
Having Big spotties fitted are fantastic for night driving But there is a trade off because they Do tend to restrict the airflow and cooking an engine or gearbox can cost you a small fortune.
Next time you find your truck struggling to keep cool remove the spotties and see for yourself the difference this makes[thumbsupbig]

[DiscoMick]

In my D2, I had similiar problems to a previous poster, the fans wern't working properly so I took the spoties off to get me by while I sorted it out.
I was working around St George, Qld in January at the time, a couple of days had to drive with the heater on. Ended up being a dodgy relay.

I would have thougt that the main indicator to be looking for was how hard the electric fans were working.
Because the air flow is restricted the fans would be on full time, rather than whatever % they were designed for. ( I use the term "designed" loosely)

Cheers Glen
The electric fans probably run whenever the aircon is on.

[trout1105]

The electric fans probably run whenever the aircon is on.


On my D2a the fan only kicks in when the engine needs it or on startup Not dependant on the operation of the air con.

[gruntfuttock]

On my defender the electric fan kicks in when the aircon is on and vehicle is under 80 km/h.

If the engine is chipped that may make it run hotter??? But by how much??

I cannot speak for every single person and every situation out there but I can say that for me it has made no difference what so ever

[martnH]

....defender is like a tractor ,very low tech agricultural car

I mean obviously removing the lights will make a difference but probably not a meaningful one

If the engine will explode or life shortened becuase of the spot lights then, well, let us know.....

[Wicks89]

Seems like OP is just happy to be rid of the lights - nothing wrong with that.

The good news is Lightforce lights hold value in resale so should be able to move them on for enough money to get an entry level lightbar.

I would say removing the lights is a good first step to diagnose an overheating issue, but with older cars high temps are probably attributable to degradation of cooling system.

So no worries selling the lights but to resolve the cooling issue might be worth doing the rad, thermostat, fan flush as well.

Like plenty of people I have spots (fyrlyt 5000s) never made a difference regardless weather, towing whatever. There's more to airflow than just the front grille, air has to come in and out.

Was an interesting article in unsealed4x4 about the patrol overheating and a portion of it has to do with the air extraction from the engine bay.

Spots are just one easily visible factor that may affect the system, so a trap for duds like ASPW to focus on.

[scarry]

I know this is an LR site,but as a matter of interest,a lightbar mounted above the bullbar effects airflow onto an above engine mounted intercooler,with bonnet scoop.

[weeds]

I trying to decide between fitting FYRLYT or a LED Bar....

I already have have both......

I’ll probably lean toward FYRLYT’s as they suit my eyes when driving long distances, I have a set fitted to my work car. I have a nanacom so I might jot down some temps

I have been in a couple of cars with LED light bars, I didn’t really enjoy the experience, appeared too white. I did notice the lit up the sides of the road immediately in front of the car which I thought would be handy off road...but I rarely drive off road at night.

Umm, it’s been 12 months and they are still sitting in the garage.

[DiscoMick]

I found my lightbar, which is a cheaper, is great for lighting up the roadside and for greater vision within normal high beam distance. I have quickly become used to the whiteness of the light and now like it.
For longer distances I would choose LED spots.
For a better low beam I would choose LED headlights.

[DiscoMick]

The lightbar is great for spotting roos on the roadside.

[trout1105]

I have got a small pair of 7in LED spot's that also have a small lightbar built in the middle of them and they work rather well because you not only get distance from them you also get a floodlight effect as well and they are FAR better than the "standard" headlights [thumbsupbig]

[Wicks89]

I trying to decide between fitting FYRLYT or a LED Bar....

I already have have both......

I’ll probably lean toward FYRLYT’s as they suit my eyes when driving long distances, I have a set fitted to my work car. I have a nanacom so I might jot down some temps

I have been in a couple of cars with LED light bars, I didn’t really enjoy the experience, appeared too white. I did notice the lit up the sides of the road immediately in front of the car which I thought would be handy off road...but I rarely drive off road at night.

Umm, it’s been 12 months and they are still sitting in the garage.

They are both effective options. Like you I like the Fyrlyt colour, much much easier on the eyes for driving long distances, and I've also found that the softer light allows for better perception outside the field of light. I.E. a light bar is like a huge brilliant square of perfect vision, outside of it you are blind.

The FYRLYT casts the light further out to the side and down the road without interrupting your vision outside of the main beams/flood areas so much.

I think the main benefit of the lightbar in comparison is the lower draw. I had to fit rather large cables to get enough voltage to my lights given the under-seat position of the defender battery. Still, they work brilliantly and I wouldnt trade them for anything.

[weeds]

They are both effective options. Like you I like the Fyrlyt colour, much much easier on the eyes for driving long distances, and I've also found that the softer light allows for better perception outside the field of light. I.E. a light bar is like a huge brilliant square of perfect vision, outside of it you are blind.

The FYRLYT casts the light further out to the side and down the road without interrupting your vision outside of the main beams/flood areas so much.

I think the main benefit of the lightbar in comparison is the lower draw. I had to fit rather large cables to get enough voltage to my lights given the under-seat position of the defender battery. Still, they work brilliantly and I wouldnt trade them for anything.

Yeah...I think LED is new treads/must have.......

The only problem with the FYRLYT is you need to drop them sooner therefore you are on low beam for longer.

The rare I’m going I probably won’t fit either as I seem to get by with the current lighting on the defer, OEM wiring don’t even have upgraded wiring.

[trout1105]

One of the big advantages of LED spots an bars is that they are pretty much indistructable and the waterproofing is fantastic.
I found with the old school lights I was forever replacing bulbs as I travel on a lot of heavily corrugated roads and I have had several smashed by flying stones, I have had LED's fitted now for several years with zero maintenance.
My first introduction to LED lights was a set of them fitted to one of my boat trailers and I haven't looked back since because they are far better suited for this application.
It Did take me a while to get used to the harshness of the LED spots and the old school lights ARE easier on the eyes But the LED's have NEVER let me down, they use bugger all power to run and they didn't cost me a weeks wages to buy them either.