D3 Looking to buy, what to look for

[sparky34]

The old D1 is on its last legs and am looking at a 2006 D3 Diesel low klms 140,000.
What would be the major items I should check, the seller states it has a full service history but that does not always guarantee its been properly carried out.
Also when would the next major service fall due after 140,000. The seller is asking $18500 which appears to be a good price given the klms. The vehicle is situated in the Hunter region, does anyone know a good mechanic in this area that could give it a pre-purchase inspection.

Cheers sparky

[coopers1969]

The next major one will be the 168,000 it is a major service where the timing chain gets done oil and water pumps can get done and the oil pump is a definite if the older type which was prone to breaking. Mine all up with a front wheel bearing was just over $3000.00.

[loanrangie]

First would be the timing and fuel pump belts which should be replaced at 168k or 7years, auto should have been serviced and mega flushed as well. The rest is mainly maintenance items like bushes, air compressor, air struts etc.
EPB should have been serviced and adjusted to keep it functioning correctly.

[sparky34]

Ok checklist of sorts, I think the service records should indicate that:

timing belt and fuel pump belt changed at 7 years ( should the oil pump housing also have been replaced)

Possible replacement of water pump

EPB serviced and adjusted

Transmission serviced

Suspect at least front rotors should have been replaced by 140,000klms

Its an S model so would probably just be coil spring suspension??

What is there to check suspension wise, believe front bushes can be a concern.

Anything else worth closer inspection.

[SeanC]

From what I’ve read if you intend to do some serious off-roading you will need a body lift if it hasn’t had one already.

So are set against air suspension?

A D3 without EAS is only half a D3 in my opinion.The OEM air springs from the UK are no more expensive than good quality 4x4 shocks here. Don’t wait for failure before replacing components. The compressor for example has done say 150 000km. That’s a good run replace it and you have a spare. The max lift in Queensland is 15 cm. The vehicles with this max lift must be pretty ordinary on road. I can get the big lift (espically with LLAMS) when I need it and then drive home on the highway at high speed height which is 2cm under normal on road height.

Went for a drive the other day and it felt all wrong. Discovered it was in off road height.

Maybe I’m just seeing things through rose coloured glasses as I have never had an issue. But I do replace before failure. Just my 2 cents worth.

[sparky34]

Sean

Not sure if it had EAS will take first look at it tomorrow, I believe EAS was an optional extra on the S model but not sure.
I would mainly use it on the beach so having 17-inch wheels means a better chose in tires with high profile.
The old D1 I now drive goes fine in the sand would I be right in thinking the D3 would be superior???.

[SeanC]

Sean

Not sure if it had EAS will take first look at it tomorrow, I believe EAS was an optional extra on the S model but not sure.
I would mainly use it on the beach so having 17-inch wheels means a better chose in tires with high profile.
The old D1 I now drive goes fine in the sand would I be right in thinking the D3 would be superior???.

I donn’t know if the D3 would be surperior but I am happy with it’s ability in the sand.
I have 17inch tyres. I start at 16psi and go down from there. I have an aftermarket TPMS and I can run from Hook Point to Happy Valley (50 kms) on Fraser Island along the hard sand at about 70kph with no overheating or pressure increase over 4psi. In the soft stuff the terrain control helps but I really think tyre pressure is the secret. People just don’t go low enough. And repeat to yourself 100 times DSC off, DSC off.....

Here is a link to a lighthearted look at a recent trip to Moreton Island but with a couple of good examples of what correct tyre pressure and maybe the terrain control can achieve in comparison to some others experiences. My Discovery is ruining my fun. (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/266744-my-discovery-ruining-my-fun.html) Now you have got me thinking. Going to have to go and drive a few soft tracks with and without the terrain control on to see what difference makes.

[sparky34]

I donn’t know if the D3 would be surperior but I am happy with it’s ability in the sand.
I have 17inch tyres. I start at 16psi and go down from there. I have an aftermarket TPMS and I can run from Hook Point to Happy Valley (50 kms) on Fraser Island along the hard sand at about 70kph with no overheating or pressure increase over 4psi. In the soft stuff the terrain control helps but I really think tyre pressure is the secret. People just don’t go low enough. And repeat to yourself 100 times DSC off, DSC off.....

Here is a link to a lighthearted look at a recent trip to Moreton Island but with a couple of good examples of what correct tyre pressure and maybe the terrain control can achieve in comparison to some others experiences. My Discovery is ruining my fun. (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/266744-my-discovery-ruining-my-fun.html) Now you have got me thinking. Going to have to go and drive a few soft tracks with and without the terrain control on to see what difference makes.

Funny you should mention Fraser Island, we were staying at Eurong in 2015 when cyclone Marcia struck the Fraser Coast, was driving the old D1 at this stage, after discussion with the locals we decided to self evacuate to catch the last ferry from Hook Point before it got real nasty the normally placid waters on the east coast turned into a nasty swell one huge set came through and hit the D1 above the rubber strip on the doors buried the front wheels down to the bumper in the sand, God, and a set of sand tracks got us out alive, long story but I kissed the sand at Rainbow Beach when we finally got to dry land. That's one reason I luv Discos

[sparky34]

Had a test drive and inspection this morning, the good :

Transmission has been serviced and after market sump fitted by Davis at Windsor
Log book is full of stamps from a genuine land rover service centre but the actual sheets with the details are missing.
Body looks straight very clean underneath, no obvious oil leaks, has never been far of road not even red dust in the door seals.
Drives great tranny has nice smooth shifts overall very clean inside.
New rotors and pads all round in last 20,000 klms front and bushes replaced.

The bad:

drivers side CV joint spewing grease.
One line in the service report from Davis states "vehicle has been in salt water", dont know what to make of that.
Otherwise nice low klms Disco for its age
have made an offer I am comfortable with so just wait and see.

What would an approximate cost to replace CV joint be, also should both be replaced.?

[rar110]

I would buy an EAS model. The D3 should have heaps more torque than a D1.

[rar110]

Another option to consider. Comes with a factory rear diff locker.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2007-Land-Rover-Range-Rover-Vogue-Super-Charged-Auto-4x4-MY08/SSE-AD-5770034

Reportedly one of the best motors ever put in a Land Rover.

More money, but a lot more car. These were about $190k new.

I have the 3.6 tdv8. A beautiful motor, but turbo failure puts buyers off. Mine has 285k km. Very smooth, enormous amounts of torque. I’ve used it at Moreton, Fraser, Straddie, and Bribie. TR with EAS and power/torque makes beach driving pretty easy. If I’m only on the beach for the day, sometimes I won’t bother dropping tyre pressure, especially for a quick run across the soft stuff at the beach entrance.

[twr7cx]

The price is nothing that exciting. Sure the km's are low, but 2006 is one of the oldest D3's. All the rubber and plastic parts age - regardless of the kms and where it's parked time catches up with them.
For a comparison I just paid $21.5k for our MY12 D4 with 155k km on it - had just had the brakes and lower control arms done at the Land Rover dealer but has a few minor issues like three door lock actuators failed (from what I'm reading common D3/4 fault) and wheel winch faulty - total looking like $600.00 in parts plus a day of my time to rectify. I was also looking at MY09 D3a's (the last updated version identifiable by painted wheel arches and clear front fender side indicators) at similar to lesser pricing.

Remember for the diesel 2.7L TDV6 motor, 168,000km is the big timing belt service - can be around $2,500.00 hence why a lot are sold just prior to this. Don't rule out the petrol engines, well worth reading the many threads on here discussing and comparing them.

Personally I'd also really push to get an HSE if your buying an older one or SE for the later D3a (personally I could never find an HSE D3a). The extra features just really finish the car off and are well worth the extra spent.



What would an approximate cost to replace CV joint be, also should both be replaced.?

You can get a shaft for around $250.00 easily enough, then probably also worth changing the axel oil seal and you'll need a new hub nut. Probably not too hard a job but I haven't done a D3. Personally I'd be happy to just replace one and monitor the other to replace when it fails.

Wonder if the boot failed due to the age of the rubber...? If it's not clicking you could consider removing, stripping, cleaning and reassembling with new grease and a replacement boot - would be cheaper again but still do the oil seal and hub nut.

[sparky34]

Thanks for the advice guys will move on and keep looking.

[DazzaTD5]

Look for one that has already had a Ford Territory 2.7 engine fitted to it. [bighmmm]

[twr7cx]

Look for one that has already had a Ford Territory 2.7 engine fitted to it. [bighmmm]

Please explain?

[loanrangie]

Please explain?Future proofed, engine may go bang.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Thanks for the advice guys will move on and keep looking.
If you can stretch the budget; a MY12-13 or even 14 3.0SDV6 HSE or SE D4 or the RR supercharged V8 (the latter is on my shopping list too...)

The D3 is getting on a bit in my view

[DazzaTD5]

Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 is prone to engine failure round 200 - 250K.
Discovery 4 3.0, both TDV6 SDV6 (dont believe that there really is any difference between them) are prone to inlet manifolds cracked, I have done more than i would expect for a what? 30 - 40K priced secondhand vehicle.
Discovery 4 is also showing engine failures and currently a used engine from what I have seen are round 10 - 15K
Discovery 4 2014 onwards so far seem trouble free-ish.

These failures really are criminal IMHO.
If I wasnt a land Rover repairer, I would never consider these vehicles.

Saying that, if you got a Discovery 3 TDV6 cheap and allow/expect a engine change, then when they are running they are great vehicle both on and off road.

[BradC]

Saying that, if you got a Discovery 3 TDV6 cheap and allow/expect a engine change, then when they are running they are great vehicle both on and off road.

Are there any recorded cases of a Ford TDV6 snapping a crank?

[DazzaTD5]

Are there any recorded cases of a Ford TDV6 snapping a crank?

*I know 2 Ford mechanics and they have never had a failed Territory engine.
*This maybe due to the light duty-ness of a Territory.
*I only use 2014 engines on wards (which gives me a small window) but I'm working on there doesnt seem to be MANY failures of the 2014 model on wards Discovery 4.
*Lets hope and prey to the engine Gods.

*Most Discovery engines dont snap the crank, for me its 2 out of 10 snaps the crank and the rest destroy the big ends. (which obviously can load up and snap the weak inherent design of the V6)

I'm only taking a mildly educated guess...

[Pippin]

*I know 2 Ford mechanics and they have never had a failed Territory engine.
*This maybe due to the light duty-ness of a Territory.
*I only use 2014 engines on wards (which gives me a small window) but I'm working on there doesnt seem to be MANY failures of the 2014 model on wards Discovery 4.
*Lets hope and prey to the engine Gods.

*Most Discovery engines dont snap the crank, for me its 2 out of 10 snaps the crank and the rest destroy the big ends. (which obviously can load up and snap the weak inherent design of the V6)

I'm only taking a mildly educated guess...A bit glass half empty Dazza, I suppose being a LandRover mechanic is a bit like being an undertaker, all you see is death. Nick[smilebigeye]

[DeanoH]

Here's an 'opportunity' for anyone game ..................... :)

Discovery 3 2008 | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Morphett Vale Area - The Range | 1212457698 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/the-range/cars-vans-utes/discovery-3-2008/1212457698)

Deano :)

[twr7cx]

Future proofed, engine may go bang.

Ah ok. So the Ford Territory was 2011 to 2016 with the 2.7L TDV6 engine. That would mean that the D4 TDV6 model up to MY12 would also have the future proofed version of the engine - likely there was little to no further developments or changes to the motor after it was dropped from the D4 in MY13 onwards.



Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 is prone to engine failure round 200 - 250K.

Was this any better in later model D3's or the D4 TDV6 with the same 2.7L engine?



*I only use 2014 engines on wards (which gives me a small window) but I'm working on there doesnt seem to be MANY failures of the 2014 model on wards Discovery 4.

Is your theory for the 3.0L SDV6/TDV6 motor or the 2.7L TDV6?
I suppose less engine failures for 2014 onwards D4's only indicates an improvement in the 3.0L SDV6/TDV6 as this is the only Diesel engine then used. It's not necessarily indicative of the 2.7L TDV6 as this engine was no longer used at this time.
Given that the 2.7L TDV6 was dropped from Land Rover use from 2013 onwards it's unlikely that they made any further refinements/improvements after this date as Ford Australia with their Territory offering were probably not purchasing enough quantity of them to justify any continued R&D. I'd therefore have thought that the last year or two of the D4 TDV6 with the 2.7L TDV6 engine (e.g. MY11 and MY12) and most, if not all, of the Ford Territory TDCi should have the last revisions.

[BradC]

*Most Discovery engines dont snap the crank, for me its 2 out of 10 snaps the crank and the rest destroy the big ends. (which obviously can load up and snap the weak inherent design of the V6)

Yeah, I guess I tend to fixate on that as I know enough about the history of mine to know it snapped a crank back around 2011-2012. Engine was replaced with another ex disco unit but I can't get any details on its previous life.

[sparky34]

Wow given the massive talk down on D3s I will look at a Pajero, old and ugly but super reliable with plenty of off-road ability. The old D1 I currently own has been a great vehicle never let me down but it also has had its faults. I really only need a car to take me up the beach fishing. Thanks again fellas all good info.

[BradC]

Wow given the massive talk down on D3s I will look at a Pajero

I also had a D1 and loved it. I only got rid of it because my wife wasn't a fan of the "boatlike" handling. So we "upgraded". Wish I hadn't. A lot more room to move and a lot less requirement to visit that engine bay.

Don't get me wrong, when the D3 is running it's the sweetest car I've driven short of an old Rolls (and I don't think I could tow the van with one of those), but if you want a cheap and reliable 4WD, look elsewhere.

[PerthDisco]

Discovery 3 2.7 TDV6 is prone to engine failure round 200 - 250K.

My reading was that if you get the TDV6 to this mileage without a failure it’s likely to not go on you.

Failures previously reported seemed to take no regular pattern of age or service history.

Many have done high kilometres on original engines of differing build year.

I don’t think the global failure number would be more than 5% but that’s an educated guess.

[DazzaTD5]

Here's an 'opportunity' for anyone game ..................... :)

Discovery 3 2008 | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Morphett Vale Area - The Range | 1212457698 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/the-range/cars-vans-utes/discovery-3-2008/1212457698)

Deano :)

its a grand too high, I generally offer customers that dont want to go down the path of engine replacement, $2K.

[DazzaTD5]

just a general reply to all and others...

*I'm not going to bull**** people and say "yeah get a D3 or D4 it will be faultless"
*Regardless of global failure percentage (is that a Land Rover marketing term??) being 5% or whatever, its not much comfort for someone forking out dollars and then having a engine failure.
*Supposedly the 2.7 had "upgraded" crankshafts the same as the mighty 3.0 in the D4, now the 3.0 in D4s are failing.
*IMHO its on the fly engineering, the D4 inlet manifold has had countless part number changes.
*Some failures have been caused by Dealer lack of knowledge, as in doing timing belt and not changing out the oil pump on early models, even though I had warned the customers to get it done.
*And while nobody has got all upity about my comments and say "oh mine has done xxx billion km's on the orig engine". Yes sure, if you built 100K of a model there has to be one thats not going to fail right?
*its why I say to owners, dont listen to Land Rover bull**** about 20K, 30K service intervals (because they have been so up front with owners so far right?) and go back to 10K service intervals.

*Some comfort...
*VW are worse with turbo diesel engine failures.
*Or Ford with transmission failures or fires.
*A friend of my parents was on his way to my workshop this morning to remove the winch on his new just out of warranty Holden Colorado so he can sell it. It has spent more time at the dealer with complete failures than he ever drove it. It broke down on the way to me. Its WAY up on my list of **** heaps never to buy.

[DazzaTD5]

My reading was that if you get the TDV6 to this mileage without a failure it’s likely to not go on you.


Good luck with that, I hear sometimes people win big at a Casino too. Take ya chance roll ya dice.

[rar110]

Wow given the massive talk down on D3s I will look at a Pajero, old and ugly but super reliable with plenty of off-road ability. The old D1 I currently own has been a great vehicle never let me down but it also has had its faults. I really only need a car to take me up the beach fishing. Thanks again fellas all good info.

If that’s your only need and the beach is not that far away, then stay with the D1 till it dies. Then buy an NP Paj with a reasonable service history. Very cheap with good diesel motor. Just not as good off or on road as a D4 or L322. While more capable, they are more complex, so safer to buy as late model as possible.

[loanrangie]

D3's are not a fishing vehicle unless that means driving to a fish farm to catch I mean buy a trout.

[goofyr]

Wow given the massive talk down on D3s I will look at a Pajero, old and ugly but super reliable with plenty of off-road ability. The old D1 I currently own has been a great vehicle never let me down but it also has had its faults. I really only need a car to take me up the beach fishing. Thanks again fellas all good info.

If you can live with a petrol get the V8, I did and love it.

[DeanoH]

Crikey, I never thought I'd see the day when a realistic assessment of the D3/D4's capability/reliability actually appeared in, of all places, the D3/D4 forum.

It's not that long ago that there was 'serious' thread here proposing (IMO) a very rose coloured glasses view that the D3/D4 was not only equal to but better off road than the Defender and comment at your own risk should one disagree. Wow.

As for the poor bugger advertising his low Km 'blown bottom end' 2.7D D3 for $3K, I reckon his 'motivated seller' comment really means "I've had a gut full of this POS and will take whatever I can get'.

I'm currently considering a D3 but am under no illusions as to it's off road capability/reliability. I've never been a fan of the 2.7D and consider it less reliable/strong than the 300Tdi and TD5 that preceded it so would prefer a petrol engine. Whilst the V8 would be great they were only available in the higher spec 2005/2006 usually HSE models. For reliability/peace of mind I reckon the coil sprung V6 S spec petrol is the ideal model for me. Decent engine and no EAS issues which I reckon should cut out about 1/2 of potential issues in a 13 year old D3 :).

Another benefit is the easy/fool proof ability to give a suspension lift/run taller tyres if necessary. I know EAS is superb when operating correctly but when it isn't it's a bloody nightmare.

My 2 bobs worth.

Deano :)

[DazzaTD5]

Crikey, I never thought I'd see the day when a realistic assessment of the D3/D4's capability/reliability actually appeared in, of all places, the D3/D4 forum.

It's not that long ago that there was 'serious' thread here proposing (IMO) a very rose coloured glasses view that the D3/D4 was not only equal to but better off road than the Defender and comment at your own risk should one disagree. Wow.

As for the poor bugger advertising his low Km 'blown bottom end' 2.7D D3 for $3K, I reckon his 'motivated seller' comment really means "I've had a gut full of this POS and will take whatever I can get'.

I'm currently considering a D3 but am under no illusions as to it's off road capability/reliability. I've never been a fan of the 2.7D and consider it less reliable/strong than the 300Tdi and TD5 that preceded it so would prefer a petrol engine. Whilst the V8 would be great they were only available in the higher spec 2005/2006 usually HSE models. For reliability/peace of mind I reckon the coil sprung V6 S spec petrol is the ideal model for me. Decent engine and no EAS issues which I reckon should cut out about 1/2 of potential issues in a 13 year old D3 :).

Another benefit is the easy/fool proof ability to give a suspension lift/run taller tyres if necessary. I know EAS is superb when operating correctly but when it isn't it's a bloody nightmare.

My 2 bobs worth.

Deano :)

IMHO..
*I dont think a D3 or D4 is a POS.
*I would never consider a coil D3, the air suspension and terrain control is all part of what makes a D3 so good.
*Drive a (running) D3 in reasonable condition and it drives, handles and goes off road way better than something of the same year by prolly most other brands.
*Then drive a Discovery 2 and it feels truck like by comparison (IMHO a D2 is a great vehicle both on and off road).
*Drive a D4 and for a vehicle that is mechanically / engineered based off a D3 and its so much more refined, drives handles, is a better vehicle from that perspective.

*I do believe there has been some really crap Ford supplied engineering, have a look in the U.S the F series pickups with V8 turbo diesel engines are another known failure. (lucky the cab has the same bolt on design as the D3 / D4)
*I do think that major engine failures on a D3 while crap for owners, it is 10 years plus old now.
*I do think major failures such as inlet manifolds cracking and engine failures on a D4 to be unforgiving and criminal to say the least. Even secondhand a D4 still fetches a pretty penny.
*So until the Ford engineering is completely out of Land Rover I dont see any model getting better.

and to end on a good note:
Just finished putting in a low mileage engine (5000km) in a 2008 D3 for a very very patient customer and they seem pretty dam happy with it. I know I was, it drove and ran so dam well that after the first 100km I would have been happy to keep driving it.

[twr7cx]

It's not that long ago that there was 'serious' thread here proposing (IMO) a very rose coloured glasses view that the D3/D4 was not only equal to but better off road than the Defender and comment at your own risk should one disagree. Wow.

I don’t know if this is fishing to revive an argument off topic, but I’ll offer having a MY98 D1, MY03 D2a (with CDL), MY11 Defender 90 Puma and MY12 D4 TDV6 on our property I’d be comfortable to say stock for stock the D4’s capabilities are surprisingly good - the additional height the air suspension affords combined with the traction from whatever the fancy traction control system is called works - even with highway tyres fitted to ours.
But it really depends on how your comparing them to determine ‘better off road’, what criteria and what weight given. I reckon the D4 could go the furthest in the sand, but would I trust it in a water crossing or mud put? No, too much expensive things on it that are potentially sensitive to going wrong.

[101RRS]

I think the issues highlighted in this thread are blown totally out of proportion.

Yes the issues do occur but only in a very small % of vehicles - for sure when you work on them you see the bad side of things and when people come to forums with problems everyone thinks all vehicles have the issues.

I do not look at my vehicles through rose coloured glasses but the hysteria in this thread is over the top - so now the the Op want to get a Pajero - a vehicle that has more issues than our vehicles do.

Sorry, but my now 12 yo RRS has generally been fault free issues mainly related to what I consider to be service items. My car has been the most reliable I have ever owned and I have owned 20 over my driving life. Yes I am aware of the engine issues but overall lack of maintenance is a common denominator - however there are exceptions.

I am a member of a LR 4wd Club with a large number of D3s, D4s, RR and RRS and not one has had engine failure - in the context of the numbers of vehicles it is rare.

So owners need to be aware of the issues but not alarmed by them - learn your car and service it accordingly.

Bagging the cars out with an almost religious fervour is nonsense.

Garry

[PerthDisco]

Agree Garry

DazzaTD5 your helpful website sets out the proper service intervals perfectly for best performance and avoidance of problems. Therefore, for prospective buyers, only touch well maintained and serviced vehicles or you’ll get to know Uncle Big Bill well.

These will never be a good choice for an el cheapo 2nd hand 4WD hack. Just like there is no cheap boat - avoiding maintenance will have you waiting for rescue. You pay now or pay later is an unavoidable law of nature.

I’m actually more positive the TDV6 is the better diesel keeper car option over the 3.0 with a PlanB Territory engine option in worst case. Keep on top of cooling system and fingers crossed she’s not a hand grenade.

[DeanoH]

I don’t know if this is fishing to revive an argument off topic,.........................................

But it really depends on how your comparing them to determine ‘better off road’, what criteria and what weight given............



Absolutely not fishing for an argument or to put down any vehicle D3, D4 or anything else for that matter. I noted what I consider to be a fair critique from an authorative source, and added my 2 bobs worth.

When I buy a D3 it will be the 10th Land Rover I have owned so I naturally don't consider it to be POS :) but like all the Land Rovers and other 4WD's that have preceded it there will be pluses and minuses so I come here to the font of all things D3 to find out before it's too late.

By "off road" I'm one of a dwindling number who actually take this term to mean actually off road though in reality this term has come to mean different things to different people. For 'off road' work I have an Oka which IMO is the perfect vehicle for my seriously off road needs but is a poor choice for my day to day 4WD and other needs. For this I reckon a D3 will be a good choice though I'm a bit 'gun shy' of the airbag variants after my P38a and D2 experiences but I'll take on board the experience/advice of those here and trust that I won't be disappointed.

I'm unsure of the differences between (petrol) D3's over the years. Apart from age/Km's is there important update issues that I should be considering ?

Thanks

Deano :)

[rar110]

Probably JLR continued the coil sprung option into the D3 for Discovery buyers who had lingering concerns about EAS reliability after some bad experiences by early RR Classic, P38 and initial L322s.

JLR will probably do the same with the new Defender and offer both coil and EAS options.

The EAS in the D3s and later L322s have proved very reliable, which is probably why the coil option didn’t continue with the D4 (other than in RSA for a short time which looked like a D3 retro fit). But in the L322s at least you should expect to replace the front spring/strut assembly at around 10 years. So age is a factor with these vehicles.

I own both a 1988 110 Perentie wagon and a 2008 RRV which is much younger but done twice the km of the Perentie. My experience has been the RRV is more reliable, has better quality/protected electrical connectors, has better offroad traction, does the on road a heap better and safer (let’s face it most km are on road), so meets my uses better than a 110. However, if the RRV stops in the middle of the Simpson then it’s probably a tray top out because of its complexity (although with an IID tool and some skills I can fix some things). But the quality of the build/and it’s maintenance history gives me confidence that a show stopper is unlikely. About a year ago I did a 7k km trip to Vic without a single drama other than wore out the rear brake pads and got a puncture.

But in comparison, my Perentie 110 carries more gear, and if it’s stops in the Simpson I can probably get it going. But the build/design means I have less confidence. Eg last big trip the build quality resulted in a genuine fuel tank failure after a few days of corrugations. Recently it almost caught fire because cash strapped Land Rover adapted a 1948 design to a 1989 car and squeezed in a fat loom where it wasn’t designed to go, and also killed the battery. Now fixed and I still like to drive it occasionally.

So more modern overall wins out for me. A lot of members think the D5 has gone too far from JLR origins. The new Defender will hopefully help resolve that.

[INter674]

D3 D4 V6 engine woes scared me off upgrading from our D2. Been looking at TDV8s but not uncommonly owners often scrimp on service and repairs. Seems like the depreciation cliff of 10k plus per year makes them indifferent to spending on car repairs.

So far as reliability goes an experienced indy told me there is no such thing as a reliable new car make anymore as they are all unreliable. Perhaps that's why older vehicles like TD42 Patrols with simple industrial engines are selling for more than modern sophisticated D3/d4s half their age!!

[twr7cx]

Perhaps that's why older vehicles like TD42 Patrols with simple industrial engines are selling for more than modern sophisticated D3/d4s half their age!!

If it were that simple then old 300TDI Discovery's would also have higher selling prices but they don't. Land Cruisers and certain model Patrols have always maintained a very high resale value while Discovery's have not.



...and when people come to forums with problems everyone thinks all vehicles have the issues.

Definitely a large element of truth to this! Especially now that the Forum has a fee for use there are many that don't see the point/value so don't join, leaving people with issues who can see a benefit in opening their wallet.



By "off road" I'm one of a dwindling number who actually take this term to mean actually off road though in reality this term has come to mean different things to different people. For 'off road' work I have an Oka which IMO is the perfect vehicle for my seriously off road needs

"off road" meaning actually off road doesn't really help to clarify at all... There's a variety of different degrees from what special built comp trucks are doing to touring tourists. There's also hardware limitations, such as I've gotten places on my MX bike that very few vehicles would ever manage.



I'm unsure of the differences between (petrol) D3's over the years. Apart from age/Km's is there important update issues that I should be considering ?

From what I understand none of the petrol motors are Land Rover motors, so it's likely all their further development and improvements would be reliant on the actual engine manufacturers to do so. The D3 V6 petrol is a Ford motor which was used in the Explorer with some timing chain issues but I've heard good things about it's reliability in the D3.

[INter674]

Re the Tdi resale value v eg Patrol and LC..I think they are rated for the engine's simplicity and reliability but suffer from a lack of power and lack of transmission strength and overall size/carrying cspacity is too small. And of course there is the landrover indignity..ie you can't be seen in one off road because as was said to me by a Vic Patrol driver "What did you buy that **** box for"? But I was happy to take that when getting nearly twice the mpg he was getting😎

LR should be ashamed for not recalling and addressing the TDV6 issues. I wrote to them about it and received a total fob off reply. ..saying they test 50 000 componants etc etc and cannot possibly identify all future failures. What!! We are talking about a hugely expensive engine here. LR are dummies when it comes to customer relations. No wonder their car values collapse so rapidly.

[PhilipA]

It has been refreshing to read this thread.
While it is true that perhaps only a small percentage of D3 suffer engine failure , well perhaps more used ones have transmission failure, not mentioned here, to me it is a question of contingent liability.

IAS
37 defines and specifies the accounting for and disclosure of provisions, contingent liabilities
, and contingent
assets. Provisions. A provision is a liability
of uncertain timing or amount. The liability
may be a legal obligation or a constructive obligation.

In other words you don't know whether it will happen to you or not, and in D3s case the costs can be astronomical. How do you know when you buy the car whether you will be up for $7-10K in the first year. I recall a thread on here where someone bought a D3 , and it's crank failed on the way home. Ouch.
And why is a D3 not suitable out of the box for Australian conditions, with ridiculous 19 and 20 inch wheels and small tanks. Toyota seems to be able to offer 17 inch wheels on Prado. It's not hard.

So I have reluctantly decided that I cannot buy a D3-D4 as an unexpected cost of thousands of dollars would destroy my yearly pension and SMSF budget. I will have to stick with my D2 until I cannot drive any more or buy something like a Mitsubishi Challenger PB or Nissan R51 pathfinder if the D2 ****s itself.

I cannot buy a Range Rover L322 either as it is almost certain that the transmission will die at 160K or earlier at fabulous cost, which is probably why they are worth nothing. Or maybe the steering column will fail and not be fixable with the drilled hole and oil, cost what $4K?

It is a real pity and PITA that Land Rover decided to screw over its traditional customer base in favour of the Europeans. And what has it ended up with? losses of $500 million because suddenly the Euros don't like diesels.
Regards Philip A

[goofyr]

I think the V8s both the 4.4 and 5.0 are Jags

[DeanoH]

So how about one of these Jag powered beautys.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2010-land-rover-discovery-4-v8-auto-4x4-my10/SSE-AD-5871303/?_ga=2.133421127.819704152.1552607482-811771215.1475978118&_gac=1.55827097.1552607482.CILq-MTwr54CFRgbawodI31clQ
(https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2010-land-rover-discovery-4-v8-auto-4x4-my10/SSE-AD-5871303/?_ga=2.133421127.819704152.1552607482-811771215.1475978118&_gac=1.55827097.1552607482.CILq-MTwr54CFRgbawodI31clQ)
Deano :)

[101RRS]

Like the diesels that have a few issues, the petrols also have their issues too - in view of numbers are minor but like the TDV6 can be a pain if you have one with problems.

[goofyr]

Yeah but all engines have some issues. If you’re looking to buy a D3, it’s an old car. My advice is to have some budget to fix what needs fixing and a bit more for any unknowns.

[101RRS]

Yeah but all engines have some issues. If you’re looking to buy a D3, it’s an old car. My advice is to have some budget to fix what needs fixing and a bit more for any unknowns.

Exactly - so there is nothing all that unusual about the TDV6 issues - people are saying that because of the reported issues with the diesels that people should look at the V8s - well go on the US LR sites and see what issues they are having with the V8s

[rar110]

Exactly - so there is nothing all that unusual about the TDV6 issues - people are saying that because of the reported issues with the diesels that people should look at the V8s - well go on the US LR sites and see what issues they are having with the V8s

I think that’s mostly the 2000-2005 X5 BMW motors fitted to the early L322s.

[DeanoH]

Exactly - so there is nothing all that unusual about the TDV6 issues ...........................................

Hmmm ......................... maybe so, it's certainly not in the same league as the totally appalling Nissan ZD30 aka 'hand grenade'; but neither is it in the same league as Toyota's 1HZ or Nissans 4.2 TD at the other end of the scale.

For me, I'm after a D3 to use as a basic SUV with a green oval :). I reckon the V6 petrol is the 'less problematic' choice for my needs.

Deano :)

[101RRS]

I think that’s mostly the 2000-2005 X5 BMW motors fitted to the early L322s.

No the V8s fitted to the various D3/4 and L320s - 4.4, 4.2 and 5.0 (less issues with the 5.0). The US L320 site has plenty of instances of V8 failure caused by cam chain tensioner failure - when we buy early 2.7 TDV6s we check that the oil pump has been upgraded - well they do the same with the V8s - they check that tensioner upgrades have been done.

However - like the diesels it is a case of being forearmed is forewarned and then deal with it - small instances in the scheme of things but when people have issues they go to forums and then indies to fix. The premise that was being alluded to that maybe owners should look to the petrols as the diesels are suss just does not hold up - both are great engines and you have to be unlucky to have troubles.

Garry

[rar110]

Thanks Garry, i was getting the impression the 5.0 Jag V8 was more problematic because of the plastic guides.

[INter674]

Diesel is on the way out for good reasons and not just due to pollution issues. Everyone has or knows of a horror storey with modern diesels and across all makes. LR losses of 6 billion over 3 months can be attributed in part to declining diesel sales no doubt also due in part to warranty/reliability issues.

Chewed the fat with a mechanic last night who quickly refuted the notion that the DMax has the best engine out there. I've got 2 in the shop now he said each with head issues. I pressed him...what would you buy? An older Patrol paj or Cruiser (fte) he said...spend the savings on a rebuild and improvements and still have money left over verses a new car.

He also said makers such as VW are panicking into repairing even out of warranty cars in an effort to keep customers happy and buying again ...including an engine replacement for a tradie van which failed at 200 plus ks!! VW must be worried as they are renowned for their poor customer service.

Modern diesels...good for repair shops...bad for customers😐