Holden Power? Pros v Cons

[kiwirgv]

Hi all,
Apologies if this has been covered, but what are the general pros and cons of holden conversions in Series rovers vs original 4 cly vs original Rover 6 cyl?
I've been on the lookout for a series land rover 109", and up until now I've been dismissing any with an engine conversion, however by doing so i may have missed out on some opportunities.. in particular, some with the conversions seem to be in good shape/better maintained than original ones, particularly in my price range.

I intend to use it just for cruising around town, occasional trips from Brisbane to the Gold Coast or sunshine coast, and occasional light towing (300kg surf rowing boat + trailer)

Are the holden engines more suited to this kind of use?
easier/harder to live with etc?


Thanks in advance
Josh

[Homestar]

If There are a lot out there still running around happily on Holden conversions. If you consider one, look for an engineers report or evidence of it being registered in your home state previously with that engine - check the engine number and your state roads authority to make sure it’s legal. Most are and we’re done before engineers reports were needed so are ok but worth checking.

Like any engine, check it’s condition like you would any other - these vehicles are no spring chickens. Same goes for gearboxes - the bigger Holden 6’s can overpower the gearbox and gearbox issues are not uncommon on converted units.

Towing a small trailer like you want would be no dramas.

I’m sure others will give you their thoughts too - good and bad. 😉

[mick88]

One of the reasons there are a lot of Holden powered series Land Rovers about is because it was the installation of the Holden donk that kept the vehicle alive, otherwise it would have ended up scrapped along with the original motor. The original donks are good if you want to stick with originality, but if you are doing lots of kays, and want to cruise at highway speeds when you are on main roads, then a Holden or Ford powered vehicle is a good choice. You will also get better fuel economy, but if you don't, you will definitely get where you are going sooner. With a Holden or Ford six cylinder conversion, a good option is to fit either higher ratio diffs, a high ratio transfer case, or a good quality overdrive like the "Roamerdrive" unit. Another good option would be to pick up one with the "Marks 4WD Conversions" Nissan Cabstar 4 or 5 speed gearbox conversion, coupled to a Holden six, but there are not a lot of these about. There are options for diesel conversions into series Land Rovers too, but to me, they just bring to mind a similar reason why old Plumbers/Tank Builders all suffer with hearing impairment.

Good luck with your selection.

Cheers, Mick.

[JDNSW]

Holden engines were fitted to Series Landrovers mainly because they were an engine that was widely available, cheap, and parts readily available and cheap. (None of these really apply today) They also gave a useful increase in power, particularly for a vehicle with a tired engine that was going to be more expensive to overhaul.

As against these advantages, the Holden engine usually needed higher gearing as they are less happy at high revs than the Rover engine. A further disadvantage is that the necessary chassis modifications to accommodate the six may end up being more expensive than expected, especially if today's engineering is needed. The bell housing adaptors to fit the gearbox to the Holden engine are not always made with sufficient accuracy, and this rather than the increased power is the reason for gearbox failures with Holden conversions.

If used for serious off roading the Holden engines can suffer from oil and carburettor issues on steep slopes.

Because there are several ways of arranging the clutch, until you have had it apart, you will not know what parts to get, and even then, you may need to find a supplier that recognises the bits.

The Rover six is a somewhat different case. The Holden engine fits with less problems, and parts for the six are getting hard to find and expensive. So it is probably a better option for vehicles that were originally sixes, although 'original' sixes are getting fairly rare, so becoming worth keeping that way.

[kiwirgv]

What a great lot of info - thanks very much guys.
I think that in the past I had been lead to believe that LRs with conversions were to be avoided - good to clear that one up.
On with the search.

I'm sure I'll have more questions - thanks again gents
Josh

EDIT: I suppose the next question is: do you know of any 109" series rovers, with either original 4- or 6- cyl, OR Ford/Holden 6 cyl engines currently available (Or Stage 1 V8 if I'm allowed to dream)?

Josh

[vnx205]

I have no personal experience of Holden conversions, but I remember hearing a lot of stories about badly aligned adaptors and overheating problems.

In the 1980s, I bought 4cyl motor for my Series III from a farmer who had replaced the original motor with a Holden engine.

I can't recall exactly what the problem was, but he had to have the engine out three times before the problem was sorted.

[101RRS]

I have to disagree with Mick88 and agree with a bit with JDNSW.

My experience is that I put a reconditioned 161 in a series 1 (86) and a little later blew up a 2.25 in a series 3 and had that engine rebuilt. I drove the series 1 as my everyday driver for about 7 years and the series 3 about 4 years after the series 1 had been sold on. I covered regular long distances in both vehicles.

Overall the performance of the engines was similar but in some areas a bit different.

The Holden had better acceleration but lower effective cruising speed (will explain) - fuel consumption was about the same. When in its rev range it had better overtaking but when over its redline it didn't have much.

Overall the 2.25 was nicer to drive as it revs easier than the Holden could cruise at an bit higher speed - the Holden runs out of revs and starts to bounce valves but if you push the Holden through this, both have about the same top speed but the Holden is screaming even though it has more power (gives acceleration not top speed). The 2.25 is far more comfortable at around 100kph.

Ok with standard gearing I definitely would go the LR 2.25 - however the major fault with the Holden is that standard gearing has it operating ouside its comfort zone - change the gearing so it is not overrevving at highway speeds then you can use its higher power.

I have no experience with this but if you change gearing I would go the Holden engine. Options are diffs, overdrive (helps the 2.25 as well) or a 5 speed box like the Nissan Cabstar box.

Over arching this is - originality. Now Holden engines are part of the LR History in Australia and if a car has one it is no big issue but in my view to pull a 2.25 out of a car now to put in a Holden engine is not necessarily a good move.

Just some my thoughts to consider.

Garry

[bemm52]

One of the reasons there are a lot of Holden powered series Land Rovers about is because it was the installation of the Holden donk that kept the vehicle alive, otherwise it would have ended up scrapped along with the original motor. The original donks are good if you want to stick with originality, but if you are doing lots of kays, and want cruise at highway speeds when you are on main roads, then a Holden or Ford powered vehicle is a good choice. You will also get better fuel economy, but if you don't, you will definitely get where you are going sooner. With a Holden or Ford six cylinder conversion, a good option is to fit either higher ratio diffs, a high ratio transfer case, or a good quality overdrive like the "Roamerdrive" unit. Another good option would be to pick up one with the "Marks 4WD Conversions" Nissan Cabstar 4 or 5 speed gearbox conversion, coupled to a Holden six, but there are not a lot of these about. There are options for diesel conversions into series Land Rovers too, but to me, they just bring to mind a similar reason why old Plumbers/Tank Builders all suffer with hearing impairment.

Good luck with your selection.

Cheers, Mick.

Mick you refer to high ratio Diffs as a better option with Holden conversions, I have two 2as in my back yard that I'm rebuilding (one Holden conversion one Land Rover 2.25)at the moment I'm addressing chassis rust issues but they are stripped down.
To my untrained eye all the Diffs centres look the same, they are removed from axle housings
what should I look for to distinguish high ratio from standard,if indeed PO made this mod

Cheers Paul

[goingbush]

Mick you refer to high ratio Diffs as a better option with Holden conversions, I have two 2as in my back yard that I'm rebuilding (one Holden conversion one Land Rover 2.25)at the moment I'm addressing chassis rust issues but they are stripped down.
To my untrained eye all the Diffs centres look the same, they are removed from axle housings
what should I look for to distinguish high ratio from standard,if indeed PO made this mod

Cheers Paul

Count the crown wheel teeth and pinion teeth , then divide ,
4.7 = Original series diff , 3.54 = RRC diff. some aftermarket were 4.1



Putting high ratio diffs in a Holden Powered Landy makes it even worse than it already is in Low Range . They don't have any low down torque & 3.54 makes them abysmal.

[JDNSW]

If the diff centres are out - really easy; just count the teeth on the crown wheel and pinion. The ratio is the crown wheel teeth divided by the pinion teeth.