Saving the World with hydrogen just took a step closer [Archive]

NavyDiver

15th December 2019, 05:21 PM

Sorry to say they (JOI) even admit that it doesn't work - it was a multi million $$$$ scam in my view.

"It’s actually something that is used in heating and cooling systems. You know what beats a CoP of 1? Systems like geothermal heat pumps which gain energy from an external source, using electricity to route a heat transfer fluid through a warmer or colder medium. That’s not what Joi Scientific is claiming, however. The company is claiming that it is putting electricity into a device which splits sea water into hydrogen and oxygen and gaining so much excess energy as to achieve 400% efficiency results.That’s pretty remarkable. But that’s still not all.Next Joi Scientific claimed hyper-efficient use of hydrogen as an energy source. It claimed that the company was able to use the resulting hydrogen in either a combustion or fuel cell model to generate enough energy to keep the process going indefinitely. Hydrogen in combustion or fuel cells is ~60% efficient at best. To gain net hydrogen for use elsewhere, this implies that they would have to achieve around 170% energy efficiency to be able to create hydrogen continuously. If Joi Scientific has managed to get well above 60% with hydrogen fueling its process, it would have won another Nobel Prize for that. Of course, it didn’t.Another red flag was the lack of any actual output numbers beyond what was claimed in the patents. Nothing. No technical input/output results. No reports. No white papers. No scientific papers. No peer-reviewed results. No third-party results. Nothing."
Joi Scientific's Perpetual Hydrogen Illusion Comes Tumbling Down | CleanTechnica (https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/01/joi-scientifics-hydrogen-illusion-comes-tumbling-down/)

NavyDiver

16th December 2019, 01:51 PM

BOC is a nice big player in GAS. nice to see them playing ball with a very nifty little sand groper I like

Not investment advice!

https://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do'display=pdf&idsId=02185933

NavyDiver

8th January 2020, 05:33 PM

Japan just gave Hydrogen a big kick
Toyota Woven City Will Weave Together AI, Hydrogen Power And The FutureCES 2020: Toyota Woven City Will Weave Together AI, Hydrogen Power And The Future (https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastianblanco/2020/01/06/ces-2020-toyota-woven-city-will-weave-together-ai-hydrogen-power-and-the-future/#601ebb1bdeb2)

WA Government is working to get ahead of the curve in hydrogen as well. This 1.6m announcment is to be followed by another 7-8mill currently under assessment for capital works. I love SandGoppers.
Media statement - Funding for studies to kick-start hydrogen industry (https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/McGowan/2020/01/Funding-for-studies-to-kick-start-hydrogen-industry.aspx)

DiscoMick

15th January 2020, 09:45 PM

This is also interesting - hydrogen power for Denham

WA tourist town to be transformed into a zero-emission community powered by hydrogen
WA tourist town of Denham to become zero-emission community powered by hydrogen - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/denham-near-shark-bay-first-wa-town-to-be-powered-by-hydrogen/11870472)

NavyDiver

31st March 2020, 11:53 AM

Just a snippet on new Buses in Poland I found in Canada.

"06:31 AM EDT, 03/13/2020 (MT Newswires) -- Ballard Power Systems (BLDP) said Thursday that it received a purchase order for 25 units of its new 70-kilowatt, heavy-duty FCmove-HD fuel cell modules from Solaris Bus & Coach, a bus and trolleybus manufacturer based in Poland.No financial terms were disclosed. According to Ballard, the ordered modules will power 25 hydrogen buses for deployment in Germany, while shipments of the products are expected to start within this year and extend into 2021.Price: 8.10, Change: +0.32, Percent Change: +4.11"

Solaris Urbino 12 hydrogen (https://www.solarisbus.com/en/vehicles/zero-emissions/hydrogen). What is very interesting this site is they are making both Electric and now hydrogen. The recharge time for a huge battery for the 24 hour operation on one variant of their Urbino 18 electric would make the few minutes refueling the Urbino 12 Hydrogen much more attractive. The key advantage to make Bus/train and Tram hydrogen is set point refueling point which is clearly easier and cheaper for multiple trains/buses or trams to use than multiple electrical charge point overnight or for hours at a time for electric battery only variations.

NavyDiver

23rd June 2020, 10:59 AM

Paper I found very interesting

https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/Zero-emission-container-corridor-hydrogen-03032020.pdf

My Key notes " International Maritime Organization’s (IMO’s) initial greenhouse gas (GHG) strategy. Under the strategy, the IMO aims to cut international shipping’s GHG emissions by at least 50% by 2050 compared to 2008 levels, and to phase out GHGs as soon as possible. The IMO is set to revise the strategy in 2023, and that could mean even stronger decarbonization targets"
and that every thing can be done with hydrogen with minimal changes to the ships. 5% or less changes to cargo space.

Trying to find china's involvement in this. South Korea and Japan are changing rapidly to hydrogen and I expect this change in shipping will be the first big move. The noted 60,000 KW of engines in the study above

DiscoMick

27th September 2020, 12:32 PM

This seems like a useful summary of proposals for hydrogen, CCS and other low emissions energy options. I don't understand it all, but it's interesting.

What are the key technologies in the Coalition's low emissions roadmap, and can they deliver? | Energy | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/sep/27/what-are-the-key-technologies-in-the-coalitions-low-emissions-roadmap-and-can-they-deliver?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)

101RRS

27th September 2020, 12:58 PM

I watched a road test yesterday of the Hyundai Nexo which I understand is in Australian showrooms but not yet for sale.

Hyundai Nexo touches down in Australia (https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/hyundai-nexo-touches-down-in-australia)

While filling stations are currently virtually non existent (Hyundai head office in Sydney and 4 pumps in Canberra soon) it is an impressive vehicle, particularly as "green" energy comes online more than it is now so it is environmentally friendly to produce hydrogen.

I think this system is the way ahead, hydrogen cell power generation to electrically drive the vehicle - once power can be generated cleanly to make the hydrogen in the first place - we are well on the way to doing this.

Garry

DiscoMick

28th September 2020, 06:35 AM

Certainly promising, but will need good government regulation to make it happen.

NavyDiver

1st October 2020, 07:26 PM

"Singapore — South Korea's Hyundai Motor Company foresees 2.9 million hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles on local roads in 2040, more than 43 times the 67,000 FCEVs projected in 2022 as it launched a campaign on Sept. 10 to support its hydrogen fuel cell business."

"The outlook for South Korea's "green" vehicle sector has been bright after production hit 140,311 units in 2019, up 13.5% year on year. Of the 2019 total, FCEVs accounted for 4,194 units, more than five times the amount made in 2018."

"To cope with more FCEVs on the roads and hydrogen filling stations, domestic hydrogen production is expected to rise to 5.26 million mt in 2040 from 0.56 million mt in 2020." Link (https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/electric-power/091020-hyundai-motor-sees-hydrogen-fuel-vehicle-market-booming-43-times-over-2022-2040)

Every informed bit of information on the scale of supply/demand for Hydrogen for steel, fertilizer, Ammonia, Trucks, Trains, Ships or even Aircraft and electricity/energy storage suggests it is difficult comprehend the volume and huge scale of Hydrogen required.

I used Korea projection of 5.26 million mt for its domestic consumption as a base line. I had a quick look at world Oil Consumption (Thousand Barrels per Day) (https://www.indexmundi.com/energy/?product=gasoline&graph=consumption&display=rank). Assuming a direct replacement only and exuding several other large uses the possible math using MS EXCEL was 624.8370 million m.t.. at 2019 Oil use level

Korea used as a base line had Australia at 9.573757 million m.t I suspect this is low. Japan at 27 and China 53 (Excluded the biggest oil consumer America as who knows what they will do.

2019 world wide was roughly 70 million tons of dirty Hydrogen which needs a clean replacement as well. :) Bright and light future perhaps.

NavyDiver

3rd October 2020, 11:02 AM

This is a really good article on the several hundred million invested in Australia and the options and likely directions seem clear.

"Australia is an export nation, and mega-projects run in its blood. Now that Japan, a key export partner of Australian gas producers, has announced its commitment to a hydrogen future, Australia makes a natural choice as a supply partner. The Australians, always sensitive to movements in commodity prices, are keenly aware of this, and hydrogen development is a rare point on which both sides of politics largely agree. Whilst the promise of a A$1bn hydrogen stimulus package died with the re-election of Australia’s Conservative Party at the federal level, the state governments have been co-ordinated and effective in their efforts to push for hydrogen development."

My favorite punt is from Perth( NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE)

https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/media/15389/hydrogen3.png?&maxwidth=980&center=0.5,0.5&mode=crop&scale=both
Hydrogen Down Under - Features - The Chemical Engineer (https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/features/hydrogen-down-under/)

NavyDiver

5th October 2020, 02:02 PM

Flight time
https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106717150-1601038749734-106717150-1601028833534-Copy_of_4X3A9296.jpg?v=1601038761&w=630&h=354ZeroAvia’s six-seater Piper M-class aircraft — which has been retrofitted with the device that combines hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity — undertook a taxi, take-off, full pattern circuit and landing on Thursday.

ZeroAvia has said the trip, described as a “hydrogen fuel cell powered flight of a commercial-grade aircraft,” is a “world first.” Other examples of hydrogen-fuel cell planes that can host passengers do exist, however. Back in 2016, the HY4 aircraft, which is able to carry four people, undertook its first official journey when it flew from Stuttgart Airport in Germany. The HY4 was developed by researchers at the German Aerospace Center alongside “industry and research partners.”

Hydrogen-powered passenger plane completes maiden flight (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/25/hydrogen-powered-passenger-plane-completes-maiden-flight.html?&qsearchterm=hydrogen)

101RRS

5th October 2020, 05:23 PM

I guess this aircraft has been refitted with electric engines to provide propulsion. In the past small aircraft have been fitted with electric engines and batteries with plug in charging and are now commercially available but the aircraft in the article is much larger (and chunkier) so it will be interesting to see how this develops.

Garry

scarry

5th October 2020, 08:09 PM

NavyDiver

7th October 2020, 08:55 PM

the biggest ever float on the German stock market is all about Hydrogen[biggrin] Market Cap 19.2B euros [biggrin] Siemens Energy (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/'symbol=ENR-DE)

Whish I had some spare cash for that one[bighmmm]

A few days later "Hydrogen is at a ‘tipping point’ with $11 trillion market set to explode, says Bank of America
PUBLISHED SUN, SEP 27 20207:53 AM EDT"

to many $$$$$ for my little head to count[biggrin]

Hydrogen-powered trains get the green light as Siemens Energy and Mobility sign joint agreement (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/06/siemens-energy-and-mobility-sign-joint-agreement-on-hydrogen-trains.html)Some days I just go WOW

NavyDiver

10th October 2020, 10:14 AM

Hydrogen v Battery Forklift [biggrin]
Forklift Faceoff (https://d22w9dtl4m3ru.cloudfront.net/)

NavyDiver

12th October 2020, 03:26 PM

Cost of Fuel cells may just have reduced by 50%[biggrin][thumbsupbig]

The graphite coating sounds like it may rock for a a few other ideas as well

Graphite Instead of Gold: Thin Layers for Better Hydrogen Cars - FuelCellsWorks (https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/graphite-instead-of-gold-thin-layers-for-better-hydrogen-cars/)

ramblingboy42

12th October 2020, 04:43 PM

There was an article from LR about hydrogen tech,but i can't find it at the moment.

Basically,they are saying their larger vehicles will not be EV,as it won't suit what people use them for.
They are working with other European manufacturers to use Hydrogen.

The tech is not new,Toyota has been working on it for many years,on cars and on larger vehicles in the transport industry.
They have Hydrogen tech vehicles on the market,but not in Aus.

The tech is certainly not new , and Joh Bjelke , long time ago now , in association with another partner , attempted to show a totally disbelieving public , what may have been Australia's first hydrogen powered car.

DiscoMick

12th October 2020, 04:58 PM

Townsville to get NQ’s first renewable hydrogen plant - Energy Source & Distribution (https://esdnews.com.au/townsville-to-get-nqs-first-renewable-hydrogen-plant/)

NavyDiver

12th October 2020, 07:15 PM

The tech is certainly not new , and Joh Bjelke , long time ago now , in association with another partner , attempted to show a totally disbelieving public , what may have been Australia's first hydrogen powered car.

Space Rockets use it, Its in all of our fuel as part of the refining process. All most all farmers used it in tonnes in the fertilizers and ammonia production. It is a huge industry already just dirty production methods which are changing to green and I think the most interesting pyrolysis. Excuse me if I hype on it[bigwhistle]Its a key to quantum theory which is topic which hurts my head . Pres George Bush got to it before the technology was ready Hydrogen Economy Fact Sheet (https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2003/06/20030625-6.html)It was the Next big thing for Bush and several others.

The technology changes happening and billions being invested in it now make it seem very likely a little change is occurring before your eyes[thumbsupbig] My trip to Perth for an AGM and Broome marathon was funded today by a British Venture capital company owned mainly by Anglo American and Mitsubishi. Suspect my retirement timing is pending the outcome of Perth poo (Methane) [biggrin]

Old Farang

20th October 2020, 03:07 PM

First of its kind fuel cell tri-generator promises to reduce energy loss, costs and emissionshttps://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/117805-first-of-its-kind-fuel-cell-trigenerator-promises-to-reduce-energy-loss-costs-and-emissions

TRISOFC coordinator Dr Mark Worall speaks about the project’s unique fuel cell tri-generator which has the potential to increase the utilisation of available energy, reduce costs, add value, and decrease primary energy use and emissions.

Old Farang

20th October 2020, 03:10 PM

Building trust in fuel cell hydrogen safetyhttps://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/116218-building-trust-in-fuel-cell-hydrogen-safety

Dr Lourdes F. Vega, project coordinator of H2TRUST, explains how the project will support the transition to the commercialisation of FCH applications.

Old Farang

20th October 2020, 03:12 PM

Hydrogen-powered mobility edges closer with next-generation fuel cell systemshttps://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/123808-hydrogenpowered-mobility-edges-closer-with-nextgeneration-fuel-cell-systems

Scientists have made significant progress in the design of vital components used in hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Improved features will lower production costs and help create a clean automotive future.

Old Farang

20th October 2020, 03:14 PM

This may have been already posted:

The UK gets its first forecourt hydrogen refuelling stationhttps://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/121642-the-uk-gets-its-first-forecourt-hydrogen-refuelling-station

Launched by Shell at Cobham services on the M25 motorway, the new station was supplied by ATM as part of the EU funded HYFIVE project. It’s the first of three hydrogen stations to be opened by Shell in the UK in 2017.

NavyDiver

20th October 2020, 04:56 PM

This may have been already posted:

The UK gets its first forecourt hydrogen refuelling station

CORDIS | European Commission (https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/121642-the-uk-gets-its-first-forecourt-hydrogen-refuelling-station)

Launched by Shell at Cobham services on the M25 motorway, the new station was supplied by ATM as part of the EU funded HYFIVE project. It’s the first of three hydrogen stations to be opened by Shell in the UK in 2017.

Very small scale and they mentioned Co2 byproduct which is a issue. - Chemists have used microwaves to convert plastic bags, milk bottles and other supermarket packaging into a clean source of hydrogen.[thumbsupbig]

Read more: Microwaving plastic waste can generate clean hydrogen | New Scientist (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2256822-microwaving-plastic-waste-can-generate-clean-hydrogen/#ixzz6bON44zDH)

Ferret

20th October 2020, 05:09 PM

NavyDiver

20th October 2020, 05:44 PM

Australian company Lavo (https://lavo.com.au/), today launches it's domestic hydrogen power wall. Supposedly 2 days of power capacity for a typical home. For ~$35k you can give Telsa the finger. Wonder how long it takes to charge to full capacity from a typical domestic solar set up?

Seems to have more energy conversion steps in the process than a lithium based battery solution, so likely to be less efficient buy very interesting nonetheless.

165570

Concept is great. Note they have " partnered with world-leading industry providers, including Evergen, GHD, Design + Industry, Varley, Ampcontrol, Nedstack, and Enapter." The dates seem a little to good to be true? 2021 delivery?

PEM fuel Cell in it I wonder if its this one "FCS 7-XXL fuel cell stack can be used as building block for compact, yet resilient fuel cell power systems. The intended use for such micro fuel cell power systems are widespread and include telecommunication back up power, domestic CHP, mobile power systems and a variety of others (https://nedstack.com/en/pem-fcs-stack-technology/fcs-7-xxl)."
(https://nedstack.com/en)Enapter are fuel cells as (https://www.enapter.com/) well so clear as mud [biggrin]

LAVO’s patented metal hydride absorbs hydrogen in a metal alloy to enable safe, long-term storage within a secure vessel. Designed to be portable and versatile, LAVO’s technology can be used for a diverse range of everyday applications. Scaling that up to a level like claimed or bigger would be a world wide game changer for transport and energy storage If they have got an stable, efficient and safe way

Watching with interest. Thanks for the post

NavyDiver

1st November 2020, 12:03 PM

(Fuel Cells) Coating costs reduced by half Even in the pre-series stage, this carbon layer achieves a contact resistance similar to the gold coating. In other words, if the engineers further improve their process up to mass production, the coating will conduct electricity at least as well as the precious metal, possibly even better - at half the cost of coating. Fraunhofer IWS scientists are convinced that this will contribute to a new generation of more efficient fuel cells with higher electrical yield.

In addition, the innovative Fraunhofer technology also promises a higher production speed. The carbon layer is so extremely thin that the coating process itself takes only a few seconds. In addition, stack producers will in future be able to coat entire sheet metal rolls "non-stop" before forming. After all, the Fraunhofer coating is so durable that it can withstand the forming and welding process. "This enables a continuous manufacturing process and thus a much higher production throughput than ever before," explains Dr. Roch.Graphite instead of gold: Thin layers for better hydrogen cars - Fraunhofer IWS (https://www.iws.fraunhofer.de/en/pressandmedia/press_releases/2020/presseinformation_2020-09.html)
(https://www.iws.fraunhofer.de/en/pressandmedia/press_releases/2020/presseinformation_2020-09.html)

So much happening even here -- South OZ BOC buying green hydrogen in South Australia rather trucking it from Victoria (https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/boc-to-deliver-green-hydrogen-across-south-australia/)

Audi getting skin in the game with contract with one of my favorite Canadian (https://www.ballard.com/about-ballard/newsroom/news-releases/2020/10/29/ballard-and-audi-sign-definitive-agreements-regarding-use-of-industry-leading-high-power-density-fuel-cell-stack-for-vehicle-propulsion)s

Norway- love them - the government of Norway, for all cruise ships and ferries plying their World Heritage fjords. Other governments in Europe and elsewhere are watching how the industry responds to Norway’s demands.
(https://blog.ballard.com/fuel-cell-marine-projects)
(https://blog.ballard.com/fuel-cell-marine-projects)What’s the industry to do? Replacing diesel with zero-emission technology involves enormous research, development and testing. (https://blog.ballard.com/fuel-cell-marine-projects)

"In collaboration with ABB, we are developing megawatt fuel cell systems with an initial focus on cruise ships."https://blog.ballard.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Blogs%20and%20Email%20Images/2020/Meeting%20the%20Challenge%20of%20Decarbonizing%20t he%20Maritime%20Sector/ABB-marine-fuel-cell.jpg?width=959&name=ABB-marine-fuel-cell.jpg

Honeywell are rather big in the defense world Not at all surprised to see then take a bite "

VANCOUVER, BC, CANADA and SOUTHBOROUGH, MA, USA – Ballard Power Systems (NASDAQ: BLDP; TSX: BLDP) today announced that it has sold the Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) business assets of its subsidiary located in Southborough, Massachusetts to Honeywell International (“Honeywell”; www.honeywell.com (http://www.honeywell.com/)).
All employees of the UAV subsidiary will transition to Honeywell Aerospace."

165866https://www.honeywell.com/content/dam/honeywell/images/article-in-story-images/ISUAM2.jpg

(https://www.iws.fraunhofer.de/en/pressandmedia/press_releases/2020/presseinformation_2020-09.html)

NavyDiver

5th November 2020, 09:30 AM

this is interesting.
A team of researchers from the Polytechnic University of Valencia and the Spanish National Research Council (CSIC) has discovered a new method that makes it possible to transform electricity into hydrogen or chemical products solely using microwaves—without cables and without any type of contact with electrodes

Creates hydrogen or ...

Another use would be the direct generation of oxygen with microwaves, which opens a broad spectrum of new uses. "One specific use would be the direct production of oxygen with extra-terrestrial rocks, which could have a key role in the future exploration and colonization of the moon, Mars or other rock bodies of the solar system," concludes José Manuel Serra.

Researchers discover a new way to produce hydrogen using microwaves (https://techxplore.com/news/2020-11-hydrogen-microwaves.html)

A short history of the discovery
The team of researchers observed that when ionic materials were being treated with microwaves, the materials displayed unusual changes in their properties, especially their electronic conductivity, changes that did not happen when they were heated conventionally. "Our curiosity to understand these sudden changes in their electrical properties made us dig deeper, designing new experiments, new microwave reactors and to apply other analytical techniques," explains José Manuel Catalá.
The team from the ITACA and ITQ institutes verified that microwaves interact with these materials by accelerating the electrons and giving way to the release of molecules of oxygen from their structure (which is also called reduction). This change manifested itself specifically with sudden alterations to the conductivity at relatively low temperatures (approximately 300ºC). "This semi-balanced state is maintained while microwaves are applied, but tends to revert back by way of reoxygenation (reoxidation) when microwaves cease being applied. We soon realized the great practical potential of this discovery, especially at a juncture such as the one we are in today, of progressive decarbonisation, which is required to reach the goal of the European Union being climactically neutral in 2050, an economy with zero net greenhouse gas emissions," concludes José Manuel Serra.

NavyDiver

9th November 2020, 06:26 AM

A sleepy giant moving again?
The (US) Department of Energy is planning to invest $100 million over the next five years into research for hydrogen-powered heavy-duty trucks.The outcome could be the development of larger, more efficient and cost-effective electrolyzers that will use a variety of technologies to split hydrogen from water.The idea is to form two large partnerships that include DOE national laboratories, universities and private companies to help jump-start what has been a very slow-moving American approach to the "hydrogen economy."

https://static.scientificamerican.com/sciam/cache/file/CFBD7725-4480-4F65-82B98BBAF3FACED4_source.jpg?w=590&h=800&7FDB9A1F-CDDD-43AF-943137ABDF8ADB30

Suspect the rate of change to swing even closer to this sector with the recent change in the US.

Add in a big miners with "Anglo says seven mines set for hydrogen mining truck fleets by 2030; rollout of 40 at Mogalakwena starts 2024" "At Mogalakwena, a full 40 truck rollout is planned to start in 2024. The trucks themselves will utilise 4 oz of platinum in their fuel cells (each will use eight Ballard FCveloCity®-HD 100 kW modules)."Anglo says seven mines set for hydrogen mining truck fleets by 2030; rollout of 40 at Mogalakwena starts 2024 - International Mining (https://im-mining.com/2020/10/30/anglo-says-seven-mines-get-hydrogen-mining-truck-fleets-2030-rollout-40-mogalakwena-starts-2024/)

Old Farang

10th November 2020, 03:13 PM

Hydrogen is and isn't the future

Hydrogen is and isn't the future (https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/2016955/hydrogen-is-and-isnt-the-future)

Surely hydrogen is the future of energy. Why else would the European Union, as part of its Green Deal, plan to shovel 470 billion euros (17 trillion baht) into infrastructure to electrolyse and use the stuff? Why else would China, Japan and South Korea be placing their own huge bets on the gas?

The enthusiasm about hydrogen has a simple reason: Whether it's used in a fuel cell or burned to create heat, the only "exhaust" it emits is innocently clean water. Therefore, wherever hydrogen replaces fossil fuels, it helps slow global warming. That explains the worldwide race to dominate the various niches of a market projected by some banks to be worth trillions of dollars by 2050.

Then again, perhaps this is just the latest of several hydrogen bubbles, destined to pop like all the others. A first one, inflated by a seminal essay from 1970, ballooned the following decade before going pfft in the 1980s. A second expanded and popped along with the tech bubble around 2000. Maybe hydrogen is the future and always will be.

Old Farang

11th November 2020, 07:14 PM

Clean green hydrogen could power tractor revolution

Clean green hydrogen could power tractor revolution - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-05-14/arrowsmith-hydrogen-plant-could-power-tractors/12238982)

The proponents of a hydrogen plant in WA's Mid West say it could stimulate the commercial production of hydrogen-powered tractors.

Touted a clean-energy breakthrough, New Holland Agriculture released its first ever hydrogen-powered tractor in 2011, which was then in service on farms in Europe by 2012.

DiscoMick

11th November 2020, 07:29 PM

I see Mick De Brenni is now Qld's Minister for Hydrogen and some other things, so that shows it's being taken seriously up here.

NavyDiver

13th November 2020, 06:51 AM

Every state is off and Running. I guess Tassie with Basslink (s?) can sit back a little for a while.

In an Australian first, Queensland has established a Minister for Hydrogen as the state recognises the importance of this valuable energy source.Mick De Brenni will take on the new role, Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk announced as she unveiled her third-term Cabinet.The move has been welcomed by the Australian Hydrogen Council, with CEO Dr. Fiona Simon commenting, “This is the right time to recognise hydrogen with a portfolio in its own right.” "
“The government also allocated $145m for renewable energy zones with ambitions to develop hydrogen hubs.”"

DiscoMick

14th November 2020, 08:55 AM

People laughed when an LNG export industry was proposed, and now it leads the world, so it may be unwise to scoff too much about hydrogen.

Why has the new Palaszczuk Government created a hydrogen department?
Why has the new Palaszczuk Government created a hydrogen department? - ABC News (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-14/why-has-palaszczuk-created-a-department-of-hydrogen/12877426)

Tombie

17th November 2020, 07:57 PM

NavyDiver

17th November 2020, 08:41 PM

I know it’s not the same. Every time I read about “Hydrogen is the future” I cannot help but think of those “lighter than air ships”....

Emergency services cringe at LPG. Wonder what angst crashed vehicles running Hydrogen are going to cause.

Hydrogen V Petrol[thumbsupbig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA8dNFiVaF0

Emergency services should and do cringe at Lithium fires for very good reasons so do airlines.

166168

Tombie

17th November 2020, 09:55 PM

I’ve seen those videos.

Similar one was out for LPG vs Petrol....

Have seen several LPG vehicles where the High Pressure plug didn’t burst and the tank exploded violently.

Hydrogen will do exactly the same no doubt.

NavyDiver

29th November 2020, 08:28 AM

Love Shark Bay. Worked there telling yarns on the Pearl farm for far to short a time in the 90s[biggrin]

While its "Testing if hydrogen can produce 100% of the baseload power for Denham and other microgids." Suspect we already know it can and will.

Denham Hydrogen Demonstration Plant - Horizon Power : Horizon Power - Renewing the Regions (https://renewtheregions.com.au/projects/denham-hydrogen-demonstration-plant/)

NavyDiver

17th December 2020, 10:09 AM

https://assets.angelpub.com/images/2020/50/tesla-64849.jpg

When Tesla Motors (NASDAQ: TSLA) introduced its first production model Roadster to the world in 2008, our collective view of electric cars changed instantly.Gone were the skinny wheels, the awkwardly designed bodies, the laughable performance — and with it, the idea that electric cars can't be exciting. This new two-seater could do 0–60 in less than four seconds, topped out at 150 mph, and looked the part from bumper to bumper.Perhaps the only artifact that today's EVs held over from the previous generation was the one behind the wheel, but so strong was the cultural shift on the issue of electric cars that even that geek stood to gain some major social cred just by owning one.
Meet the Hyperion XP-1. Introduced to the world this summer, this car does 0–60 in 2.2 seconds. It tops out at 221 mph. It can go more than 1000 miles on a single fill-up. Moreover, its door design is borrowed from a McLaren. Its shape is evocative of a Bugatti. Its exclusivity rivals any Ferrari.
The Hyperion is, for the hydrogen fuel cell market (https://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/the-rise-and-fall-and-recovery-of-nikola-corporation/96866), what the first Tesla Roadster was for electric vehicles.Now, I know what you might say... this is a one-off supercar; it won't make a difference in the long run.Wrong. In 2022, the XP-1 will debut as a consumer product — 300 units will be made. Sounds like a tiny drop in the bucket, but Tesla only released 500 of its Roadsters in its first year of production, just enough to light the fuse.

The Tesla of Hydrogen Fuel Arrives... at 221 MPH (https://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/the-tesla-of-hydrogen-fuel-arrives-at-221-mph/97887?utm_optipub=email-article&identifier=bb73fe88cde3d145828771e4ef4dc95d&utm_referrer=3)

No I cannot afford one- Boo Hoo

gofer

29th December 2020, 07:14 PM

hi folks. came across this item in the new york times.
thought it might be of interest .

The Gospel of Hydrogen Power - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/28/business/hydrogen-power-cars.html)

NavyDiver

2nd January 2021, 03:06 PM

I may be shot for this post. In America in the 80s noted shicken Mc Nuggets and several other items which are now main stream in Australia. Yuck then and now and a deliberately left typo on Shicken as I am not sure it is chicken some times when forced [biggrin]

Love my Disco ( assuming mine is revivalable perhaps- DOH ) The death of our diesels will take some time but it is coming I think more quickly then horrible fast foods did [thumbsupbig].

The fact is that ever-tougher emissions regulations in Europe are killing off the models we once chose from, and that’s impossible to get around.
(https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/the-end-of-the-diesel-engine-why-oil-burners-are-on-the-way-out-in-passenger-cars-but-not)Even the stunning rise of the SUV hasn’t enabled diesel to retain its fashionista status. (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/the-end-of-the-diesel-engine-why-oil-burners-are-on-the-way-out-in-passenger-cars-but-not)Although generally bigger, heavier vehicles and, therefore more suited to diesel power, (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/the-end-of-the-diesel-engine-why-oil-burners-are-on-the-way-out-in-passenger-cars-but-not)SUVs (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/why-suvs-are-becoming-so-popular-34463) in this country have also moved away from diesel to petrol and petrol-hybrid power. "Considering that buyers of some new (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/the-end-of-the-diesel-engine-why-oil-burners-are-on-the-way-out-in-passenger-cars-but-not)Toyota models (https://www.carsguide.com.au/toyota) are ticking the hybrid driveline option-box in more than 60 per cent of cases, you can see the trend."
(https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/the-end-of-the-diesel-engine-why-oil-burners-are-on-the-way-out-in-passenger-cars-but-not)

I noted another few billion invested in Green Steel via EU, Mitsubishi Heavy industries and voestalpine (https://www.h2future-project.eu/) prime Metals today. Its the second and the biggest Green steel plant via hydrogen now. I am slow as it is starting operations in 2021.

Mike Strizki home based idea is fun if you have a [B]lot of money to burn? The very big numbers and billions of $$$$$$$ via Yarra fertilizers (https://www.yara.com/news-and-media/news/archive/2020/arena-announces-funding-for-yara-pilbara-and-engies-feasibility-study-on-a-renewable-hydrogen-to-ammonia-solution-in-fertiliser-production/) in WA, shipping and now steel both of which have a need for vast amounts of cheap clean hydrogen make Mike Strizki set ups a cool little minow. Good on him

https://www.h2future-project.eu/technology

350RRC

3rd January 2021, 06:21 PM

NavyDiver

4th January 2021, 04:46 PM

You mean Yara fertiliser? I use that stuff.

DL

That's them. One of the biggest in the world. Very cool Company trying and likely to succeed making millions of tonnes less C02 while making fertilizers we all need or use if we know it or not [thumbsupbig] Very little if any of our food or meat is grown or feed with out Yara fertilizer products[thumbsupbig] Excuse my extra 'R' in my typing in my last post

Of interested I just looked worlds big companies for fertilizer products

Nutrien Home | Nutrien (https://www.nutrien.com/)
Tick they are in hydrogen race BayoTech Announces Deal with Nutrien for Hydrogen Generator - FuelCellsWorks (https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/bayotech-announces-deal-with-nutrien-for-hydrogen-generator/)
[B]CF Industries Holdings.
tick 2 https://www.worldfertilizer.com/environment/30102020/cf-industries-announces-commitment-to-clean-energy-economy/
The Mosaic Company. First strike - no news found [thumbsupbig]
Yara International.
Trifecta with highlighted very large project in W.A. Yara ready to enable the hydrogen economy with historic full-scale green ammonia project | Yara International (https://www.yara.com/corporate-releases/yara-ready-to-enable-the-hydrogen-economy-with-historic-full-scale-green-ammonia-project/)

NavyDiver

6th January 2021, 11:18 AM

I knew they had put hydrogen as a UPS. The Size of it is bigger than I knew.

Telstra next perhaps? [biggrin]

Could hydrogen kill off diesel? - DCD (https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/analysis/could-hydrogen-kill-diesel/)

NavyDiver

6th January 2021, 11:50 PM

Post or shut up? Asking perhaps answers the question I am an admitted green carbon free nuclear type. Love the possibility of clean fusion or very clean older style Nuclear reactors. Hydrogen seem to fit with efficient and clean solar, wind or carbon free via U-235 or so,

"Wood Mackenzie also declared the 2020s the decade of hydrogen,"

While we might not like some aspects of the [B]Communist Party of China (C.C.P.) China is a interesting and important development worth watching I think.

http://epaper.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202101/06/WS5ff50741a31099a2343530d1.html Not suggesting anyone is silly enough to invest in some of the companies I like. Some just might be worth observing possibly.

NavyDiver

12th January 2021, 11:29 AM

Investing can be dangerous without you getting appropriate advice. My waffle should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Sharing as I think it raises several interesting aspects I feel Australia is possibly holding world leaded technology.

Coal is a issue mined or still in the ground. This is a major Hazer opportunity. A significant amount of methane being billions of tonnes is venting from current and old coal mines
Coal Mine Methane Sources | Coalbed Methane Outreach Program (CMOP) | US EPA (https://www.epa.gov/cmop/coal-mine-methane-sources)

.
U.S. coal mines emitted nearly four billion cubic meters or 61 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalent (MMTC02E) in 2015 (https://www.epa.gov/cmop/frequent-questions#q6)

We could clearly add a lot of very large Hazer plants to both help remove the Air voiding of this and make money via Hydrogen and Graphite at the same time. The costs and need to control methane immersion is a Hazer patented strength and advantages.

Thanks for bring up the topic. 20% of global green house gas emissions are methane. Profiting from fixing this for the world will be a pleasure for us share holders

The money and world wide effort in this sector will be knocking on the door in Hazer HQ. The Global Methane initiative shows a lot of change is happening. A map they have shows the enormous opportunity for Hazer (https://www.globalmethane.org/sites/index.aspx) I feel. I am happy to bet the map shows only a small proportion of the opportunity
Have a great day all

hazergroup.com.au | Commerciallising the Hazer Process (https://hazergroup.com.au/)

Old Farang

17th January 2021, 03:39 PM

Hydrogen fuel and fertiliser from potato farm waste is on the boil in a bid to lower heavy costs to farmers

Hydrogen fuel and fertiliser from potato farm waste is on the boil in a bid to lower heavy costs to farmers - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-16/hydrogen-fuel-and-fertiliser-from-humble-potatoes/13060992)

Trials to turn waste from potato farms into fertiliser and energy are underway in regional Victoria in a bid to be environmentally friendly and lower the costs for farmers.

The research and development project based in Mollongghip, between Ballarat and Daylesford, aims to convert agricultural waste, known as biomass, into hydrogen.

NavyDiver

18th January 2021, 01:16 PM

BOC/Linde QLD last month a reasonably small 220 kW hydrogen in Brisbane. "Brisbane, 23 August 2019: Leading gas and engineering company BOC, a subsidiary of Linde plc, today announced the commencement of a Queensland-first renewable hydrogen project at its production facility in Bulwer Island, Brisbane.

The $3.1 million end-to-end renewable hydrogen supply project received $950,000 funding from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) and is supported by the Queensland Government."

24MW is a lot bigger :) just not here yet.

"Guildford, UK, January 13, 2021 - Linde (NYSE: LIN; FWB: LIN) today announced it will build, own and operate the world's largest PEM (Proton Exchange Membrane) electrolyzer plant at the Leuna Chemical Complex in Germany.

The new 24-megawatt electrolyzer will produce green hydrogen to supply Linde's industrial customers through the company's existing pipeline network. In addition, Linde will distribute liquefied green hydrogen to refueling stations and other industrial customers in the region. The total green hydrogen being produced can fuel approximately six hundred fuel cell buses, driving 40 million kilometers and saving up to 40,000 tons of carbon dioxide tailpipe emissions per year.

The electrolyzer will be built by ITM Linde Electrolysis GmbH, a joint venture between Linde and ITM Power, using high-efficiency PEM technology. The plant is due to start production in the second half of 2022.

"Clean hydrogen is a cornerstone of the German and EU strategies to address the challenge of climate change. It is part of the solution to help reduce carbon dioxide emissions across many industries, including chemicals and refining," said Jens Waldeck, President Region Europe West, Linde. "This project shows that electrolyzer capacity continues to scale up and it is a stepping stone towards even larger plants.""

The size growing massively quickly yet it is not even scratching Linde's current massive Steam reforming hydrogen production or significantly expanding hydrogen needs. The cost are not specified unfortunately.

A very interesting chat I listened to again yesterday discussed the price decline in Solar. From ridiculously high in the 1980s to cheaper than coal per MWh now. Hydrogen fuel cells are following the significant price reduction as they scale up as is the cost of production for Hydrogen itself. The news suggested the significant cost reductions is happening much faster with Hydrogen than it did with Solar and Wind power.

The train refueling in UK to start this year as well. https://www.linde.com/news-media/press-releases/2020/linde-to-build-and-operate-world-s-first-hydrog... (https://www.linde.com/news-media/press-releases/2020/linde-to-build-and-operate-world-s-first-hydrogen-refueling-station-for-passenger-trains)

NavyDiver

19th January 2021, 09:13 AM

Sharing not pumping a stock I hold!!! THIS IS NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE- just a chat!!!! everyone financial situation/risk profile and common sense is important D.Y.O.R.[thumbsupbig]

Why consider this?Hazer, BASF, Linde/BOC, Monolith and others all have mention methane pyrolysis CO2-neutral or negative and some chatter about credits reported as “US$45 billion 2019” and growing (See overview of Carbon Pricing). Hazer “there's an enormous benefit in operating on biogas because we get a large carbon abatement credit and we actually become a carbon-negative process working on renewable biogas.” Mr Geoff Ward Hazer in a interview with Alan Kohler 24 Oct 2019 Makes the topic a investor consideration of interest to myself.

Types of Carbon CreditsThere is two types of credits: Voluntary emissions reduction (VER): A carbon offset that is exchanged in the over-the-counter or voluntary market for credits. Certified emissions reduction (CER) Emission units (or cred its) created through a regulatory framework with the purpose of offsetting a project's emissions. “CER” is considered equivalent to one metric ton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_ton) of CO2 emissions. These allowances can be sold privately or in the international market at the prevailing market price. These trade and settle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_(finance)) internationally and hence allow allowances to be transferred between countries. Each international transfer is validated by the UNFCCC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNFCCC). Each transfer of ownership within the European Union is additionally validated by the European Commission.”

Overview of Carbon PricingWorld Bank- State and Trends of Carbon Pricing 2020 (https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/33809/9781464815867.pdf'sequence=4&isAllowed=y)
“There are now 61 carbon pricing initiatives in place or scheduled for implementation, consisting of 31 ETSs and 30 carbon taxes (Figure ES.1), covering 12 gigatons of carbon dioxide equivalent (GtCO2e) or about 22 percent of global GHG emissions (Figure ES.2). This is an increase compared to 2019, in which 20 percent of global GHG emissions were covered by ETSs and carbon taxes that were implemented or scheduled for implementation.”

“A wide range of public and private sector actors are pushing forward with decarbonization strategies through international cooperation”
“In 2019, about 1,600 companies disclosed that they currently use internal carbon pricing or that they anticipate doing so within two years.9 With an increasing number of companies committing to net zero targets and growing investor pressure, the use of internal carbon pricing to reduce supply chain emissions is likely to grow in the future”
““Imposing a price on carbon sends a financial signal to investors that low-carbon investments are valuable today and will be even more valuable in the future.” Philippe Le Houérou, Chief Executive Officer of International Finance Corporation”
“Carbon prices range from less than US$1/tCO2e to US $119/t CO2e, with almost half of the covered emissions priced at less than US$10/tCO2e”
“61 implemented or scheduled, of which 31 are ETSs and 30 are carbon taxes”

Carbon Credits and Australia context today“Market Advisory Group managing director Raphael Wood said investment in Australian carbon credits was doubling every year, albeit off a low base.
“We are seeing substantial investment as these companies know they will have future liabilities arising under any carbon neutral commitments,” Carbon Market Institute chief executive John Connor said.
He noted private equity firm KKR last year spent about $100 million buying into Greencollar, the largest Australian generator of carbon credits, while Woodside and Shell had made similar moves.
“They are recognising what their future climate liabilities will be and also the commitments many companies have made for carbon neutrality," Mr Connor said.”

Investors place Australian bets on compulsory emissions reductions (https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/investors-place-australian-bets-on-compulsory-emissions-reductions-20210118-p56uy9.html)

Why do companies in countries without carbon pricing buy carbon creditsKKR, Woodside and Shell are not spending 100million for no reason.
I assume and companies/investors’ expectations or current real imposition taxes and tariffs in trade in many jurisdictions if they do not deal with Emissions and available Offsets. Scope 3 may be a major contributing factor to this?

Scope 3 explained US EPA“Scope 3 emissions are the result of activities from assets not owned or controlled by the reporting organization, but that the organization indirectly impacts in its value chain. Scope 3 emissions include all sources not within an organization’s scope 1 and 2 boundary. The scope 3 emissions for one organization are the scope 1 and 2 emissions of another organization. Scope 3 emissions, also referred to as value chain emissions, often represent the majority of an organization’s total GHG emissions.” “GHG Corporate Protocol, all organizations should quantify scope 1 and 2 emissions when reporting and disclosing GHG emissions, while scope 3 emissions quantification is not required. However, more organizations are reaching into their value chain to understand the full GHG impact of their operations. In addition, because scope 3 emission sources may represent the majority of an organizatio

NavyDiver

20th January 2021, 09:34 AM

More hydrogen here in OZ- Again not investment advice. Noting a rocket plus after I shared my carbon credit waffle. ( I think it was a reasonable view but may be a smarty pants smug mug)

RLE is merging with SXA ( I hold one of them) the change of name to Pure Hydrogen may be a little hype inducing I feel. they are both gas sector and minnows or what is called often call"penny deadfulls" [B]which many people correctly avoid like the plague . Never heard of Liberty Hydrogen.
The H band wagon is growing so fast some will fail spectacularly like Nikola seems to have. A fool and our money are...... [thumbsupbig]

REAL ENERGY CORPORATION LIMITED (ASX:RLE) - Ann: Pure Hydrogen Signs JV with Liberty Hydrogen, page-1 - HotCopper | ASX Share Prices, Stock Market & Share Trading Forum (https://hotcopper.com.au/threads/ann-pure-hydrogen-signs-jv-with-liberty-hydrogen.5863219/)

gofer

22nd January 2021, 07:47 AM

came across this . worth a read. LAVO, UNSW develop world'''s first domestic hydrogen battery (https://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/world-s-first-domestic-hydrogen-battery-developed-by-australian-firm-20210120-p56vkd.html)
also a piece by twiggy forrest on green hydro. Andrew Forrest on how green hydrogen offers a chance to fix our climate and our economy - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-22/boyer-lecture-andrew-twiggy-forrest-green-hydrogen-climate/13077070)

food for thought.

gofer :-)

NavyDiver

31st January 2021, 07:44 AM

1000 hydrogen taxis, 10,000 cars Fantastique
https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/toyota-backed-paris-venture-targets-10-000-hydrogen-cars-by-2024 (https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/toyota-backed-paris-venture-targets-10-000-hydrogen-cars-by-2024)

It is all about cost and reliability I think so other news suggesting a cost tipping point is rather close "[B]Nel says 'green' hydrogen could be as cheap as fossil alternative by 2025

Nel makes electrolysers used to make so-called green hydrogen from water rather than from fossil fuels, and also hydrogen fuelling equipment" green hydrogen: Nel says 'green' hydrogen could be as cheap as fossil alternative by 2025, Energy News, ET EnergyWorld (https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/renewable/nel-says-green-hydrogen-could-be-as-cheap-as-fossil-alternative-by-2025/80383628)
I think a number of WA efforts in progress might assist in this rather a lot

A interesting part of this is "[B]Nel's goal is to enable customers to produce green hydrogen at $1.5 per kilo in 2025, a cost level where it can outcompete fossil alternatives, down from between $2.5 and $4.5 per kilo in 2019, it said in a strategy update."

The prices quoted at $2.5 to $4.5 would make hydrogen very very close to ICE already.

NavyDiver

31st January 2021, 03:19 PM

After the mess the pipeline from Alaska to the US via Canada made. It was interesting to note the planning consideration to move millions of miles of gas pipeline to allow them to be used to transport and store hydrogen in the US.

The same is need almost everywhere as leaky old natural gas lines releasing Methane is already know to be a real issue. Hydrogen proofing pipes make a lot of sense. At the very least they would not leak methane then[biggrin]

Must New heating and boilers being sold in the EU and UK is going to be able to run on either methane or hydrogen or blends of the two I heard.

Pipeline Owners Look to Hydrogen as Natural Gas Comes Under Attack - FuelCellsWorks (https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/pipeline-owners-look-to-hydrogen-as-natural-gas-comes-under-attack/)

NavyDiver

9th February 2021, 08:40 AM

Hyosung Chairman Hyun-Joon Cho has begun to activate the hydrogen economy by preparing to construct the world’s largest liquid hydrogen factory following a large-scale investment in carbon fiber last year. (https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/hyosung-heavy-industries-to-construct-the-worlds-largest-liquid-hydrogen-plant/)Hyosung joined hands with the Linde Group, a global chemical company specializing in industrial gas, to establish a value chain encompassing the production and transportation of liquid hydrogen and installation and operation of charging stations by investing KRW 300 billion in all by 2022. For this purpose, an MOU was signed by Hyosung Chairman Hyun-Joon Cho and Linde Korea Chairman Baek-Seok Seong on April 28 at the head office of Hyosung in Mapo, Seoul.

As a start, the two companies will build a liquid hydrogen factory on a 30,000㎡ (about 10,000 pyeong)-plus site in the premises of the Ulsan Yongyeon factory of the Hyosung Group by investing KRW 150 billion. The factory will be the largest in the world as a single plant with annual production capacity of 13,000 tons (enough to fuel 100,000 passenger cars). A joint venture will be established by the end of this year to begin construction of the factory during the first quarter of the following year and complete the factory in 2022. (https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/hyosung-heavy-industries-to-construct-the-worlds-largest-liquid-hydrogen-plant/)

Made our Victorian Port Anthony project targeting initial production of 20 tonnes per day seem a little small thats about 7300 tonnes per year.

"[B]Sydney— Real Energy Corporation Limited’s (ASX: RLE) 100%-owned hydrogen division Pure Hydrogen Corporation Pty Ltd is pleased to announce that its Joint Venture (JV) company with Liberty Hydrogen, Pure Hydrogen International Inc., has signed a term sheet with private Australian hydrogen project development company Port Anthony Renewables Limited to build and develop a large-scale hydrogen production facility at Port Anthony, Victoria."

Still need to find out who Liberty Hydrogen are. Never heard of them until yesterday

bob10

16th February 2021, 04:37 PM

A consortium of 30 European energy companies and financial institutions have launched the HyDeal Ambition project, which aims at delivering 100% green hydrogen across Europe at a price of just €1.5/kg before 2030 by building 95GW worth of solar capacity and 67GW worth of hydrogen electrolysis capacity.
HyDeal Ambition is the result of 2 years of research and confidential preparation by 30 European energy players, and the targeted price of €1.5/kg ($AU2.3/kg) includes the production of, transmission, and storage of green hydrogen.
One of the primary purposes of HyDeal Ambition is to deliver green hydrogen to customers at cost-parity with fossil fuel competitors, helping to make the transition to a carbon-neutral economy a much easier prospect.

European consortium to deliver 95GW of solar and 67GW of hydrogen by 2030 | RenewEconomy (https://reneweconomy.com.au/30-european-companies-form-hydeal-ambition-project-to-deliver-95gw-of-solar-67gw-of-hydrogen/)

NavyDiver

21st February 2021, 06:36 PM

How much hydrogen is a question I love to consider. A region in Japan just released a study on how much they will use by 2025 and 2030

40,000 ty 2025 and 110,000 ty by 2030

I did have to google TY[biggrin] before going back and reading more closely. I think it is Tonnes per year. I assume a tonne of the lightest element is an awful lot of it[thumbsupbig]

"As of 2019, roughly 70 million tons of hydrogen are produced annually worldwide for various uses, such as oil refining, and in the production of ammonia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia) (through the Haber process (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process)) and methanol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol) (through reduction of carbon monoxide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide)), and also as a fuel in transportation. The hydrogen generation market is expected to be valued at US$115.25 billion in 201" wiki so I hope that's ok

Chubu Japan seem to be planning to use almost 60% of the entire worlds 2019 hydrogen production. that's a lot of gas! The consortium is Toyota, Mitsubishi Heavy industries and other very heavy hitters.

Japan: Consortium Releases Update Activities Report of Hydrogen Utilization Study Group in Chubu - FuelCellsWorks (https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/japan-consortium-releases-update-activities-report-of-hydrogen-utilization-study-group-in-chubu/)

Old Farang

12th March 2021, 07:42 PM

Japan-Australia venture starts producing hydrogen from dirty coal
Japan-Australia venture starts producing hydrogen from dirty coal (bangkokpost.com) (https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2082675/japan-australia-venture-starts-producing-hydrogen-from-dirty-coal)

LOY YANG, Australia: A Japanese-Australian venture has begun producing hydrogen from brown coal in a A$500 million (US$390 million) pilot project that aims to show liquefied hydrogen can be produced commercially and exported safely overseas.

The plan is to create the first international supply chain for liquefied hydrogen and the next big step will be to ship a cargo on the world's first liquefied hydrogen carrier.

NavyDiver

28th March 2021, 09:19 AM

Just got two or three interesting items on Hydrogen. I want a replacement no bloody exhaust fumes H replacement drive for offshore Fishing so yanmar moves are more than interesting. A little bigger than my little boats needs still

169825 Link (https://www.maritime-executive.com/corporate/yanmar-field-demonstration-test-for-maritime-hydrogen-fuel-cell-system)

I have put my money where my mouth is with a few investments lately. My little bits in WA, US and Canadian companies was diversified to a EFT which is a big basket of companies.

Canberra has the first public H refueling station, the 20 Korean cars about to be delivered are also about to be made available to us plebs if you have very deep products for 2nd gen technology. A race is starting between some car companies in the secotor "
20 Hyundai Nexo SUVs sat in Sydney storage for months and the installation of the refuelling infrastructure stalled during the COVID pandemic, the station is finally up and running, setting a zero-emissions transport agenda that Victoria is racing to match next week when Toyota finally opens its refuelling station in Altona" Link (https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7185444/act-fuels-the-future-with-nations-biggest-hydrogen-fleet/)

At an even bigger scale by the end of the year is this one soon too be multiples.

110-m by 11.45-m inland container vessel Maas
will be 100% powered by hydrogen at the end of 2021. It will be retrofitted at the Holland Shipyards Group’s yard in Hardinxveld throughout Q3 2021. When service resumes, Maas
 will continue shipping container cargo between Rotterdam and Antwerp.

Link (https://www.rivieramm.com/news-content-hub/news-content-hub/first-leap-with-hydrogen-box-ship-conversion-64588)
https://dvzpv6x5302g1.cloudfront.net/AcuCustom/Sitename/DAM/098/MSC_Maas_1.jpg

Proof of cheap emission free or even carbon negative Hydrogen production is required. Happily that is in very advanced position in WA in particular. Proof of costs (R.O.I.) is required to make this change a smile and profitable event rather than painful.

I think I have mentioned the 1900-1910 disruptive technological change Haber- Bosch. Still stunned by its impacts from war to sustaining and enabling the 6 times plus world population growth.

The changes coming seem to be possibly as revolutionary as that event to me. Hope the war enabling side is not the same and do not want to see another 6x population growth :)

101RRS

28th March 2021, 11:26 AM

Canberra has the first public H refueling station, the 20 Korean cars about to be delivered are also about to be made available to us plebs if you have very deep products for 2nd gen technology.

We have had them for about a year but they were made of cardboard - these are not public at this stage - for use by Govt vehicles only at the moment.

NavyDiver

28th March 2021, 07:44 PM

We have had them for about a year but they were made of cardboard - these are not public at this stage - for use by Govt vehicles only at the moment.

I think they just announced public sales "Australia's first hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is available to both private and business customers (https://www.caradvice.com.au/936437/2021-hyundai-nexo-local-specs-revealed-for-australias-first-hydrogen-powered-vehicle/)."

Not for me, need a tow tug still.

101RRS

28th March 2021, 07:55 PM

Yes you are correct - apparently will be open to the public.

They are still pushing the myth that ACT electricity is only produced from renewable resources and the hydrogen will be produced from this power.

"He said clean hydrogen, produced through electrolysis with 100 per cent renewably sourced electricity, and electric vehicles, were part of an emissions-free transport system, and the ACT would embrace both."

Porkies there - when it is dark and no wind, the ACT gets its power from the grid so from coal burning sources.

NavyDiver

18th April 2021, 08:15 PM

I like hydrogen yet one way seem to have a rather scary possible OUCH. "BP plans to build Britain's largest hydrogen plant by 2030

The Teesside plant in northern England will have capacity of up to 1 gigawatt (GW) of so-called blue hydrogen, about a fifth of Britain's target of 5 GW of hydrogen capacity by the end of the decade."

Chatter on this and local Vic carbon capture and storage was the topic I had not considered before. Massive C02 storage in ...... has a possible issue +. The BP plans has apparently C02 sequestration in several proposals is pumping it deep underground or under the ocean in old oil wells as one example. The Alarm Bell is a massive failure of a C02 sequestration in the Oceans near the UK. Two types of leaks- "gradual or in a catastrophic leakage" The latter may kill a lot of people.

Oddly this is already a possible issue "Since 1996, the company has separated CO2 gas from the desired hydrocarbons and reinjected up to 1 million tonnes of CO2 a year into the Utsira formation, a layer of porous sandstone more than 800 metres below the sea floor (see ‘Gas tank’ (https://www.nature.com/news/seabed-scars-raise-questions-over-carbon-storage-plan-1.14386#gas)). The giantformation, which covers an area of 24,000 square kilometres, has the potential to hold 600 billion tonnes of disposed CO2. According to Statoil’s website, CO2 in the Utsira is safely contained under “gas-tight cap rock and cannot seep into the atmosphere”.

It get more interesting to alarming "Yet because offshore disposal happens far from population centres, it has some advantages over onshore storage. Germany, Spain and Norway are each running onshore pilot experiments in which they have injected tens of thousands of tonnes of CO2 into reservoirs underground, but some people have expressed concern about large-scale disposal on land. “I think it’s easier to work offshore in the sense that the public perception is not ready for CO2 storage in their backyards,” says hydrogeologist Pascal Audigane of the French Geological Survey in Orléans, who manages a €5-million carbon-storage project in an underground lab in Switzerland."

A massive amount of c02 in a "catastrophic leakage" due to ???? could smoother a large area with little possibly of escape in a scenario I was listening to while riding today. Excuse me as a MAMIL event occurred again [biggrin]

The studies on the topic are not really considering the massive scale being considered by BP and even our Victorian coal proposals the Government seems to want regardless of better options[bighmmm]

Old Farang

25th April 2021, 03:00 PM

Toyota in hydrogen fuel push
Toyota in hydrogen fuel push (bangkokpost.com) (https://www.bangkokpost.com/auto/news/2091747/toyota-in-hydrogen-fuel-push)

MELBOURNE: Toyota Motor Corp yesterday opened its first commercial hydrogen fuel pump site in the Australian state of Victoria, urging the government to encourage the rollout of more sites to boost the take-up of cleaner cars.

The site west of Melbourne is also its biggest globally in terms of producing, storing and dispensing hydrogen.

Toyota is bringing in 20 of its Mirai hydrogen fuel cell cars to Australia in April, placing them in fleets to gain feedback on how they run.

It is the second such fuel station in Australia after ActewAGL last week began selling hydrogen produced by France's Neoen SAS in a trial for 20 Hyundai Nexo sport utility vehicles owned by the Australian Capital Territory government.

170541

RANDLOVER

25th April 2021, 03:10 PM

I like hydrogen yet one way seem to have a rather scary possible OUCH. "BP plans to build Britain's largest hydrogen plant by 2030

The Teesside plant in northern England will have capacity of up to 1 gigawatt (GW) of so-called blue hydrogen,............[bighmmm]

Does anyone else think all the talk of grey/blue/turquoise Hydrogen is like putting filters on cigarettes, ideally only green hydrogen should be acceptable. I can accept sequestering the hydrogen production CO2 by-product as long as it doesn't leak out.

DiscoMick

5th June 2021, 03:42 PM

scarry

5th June 2021, 06:41 PM

A week with a hydrogen-powered Toyota.

Where will I fill up? My week driving Toyota’s hydrogen car in locked down Melbourne | Energy | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/04/where-will-i-fill-it-up-my-week-in-lockdown-with-a-toyota-hydrogen-powered-car?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)

That vehicle has been on sale for many years in the US.

Certainly much more convenient for many than EV,once hydrogen fuel stations become more common, but the price of the fuel will put potential buyers off, no doubt.

NavyDiver

6th June 2021, 10:06 AM

Fueling a clean energy future, today, with greener than green hydrogen. (https://www.sgh2energy.com/)

Business turning rubbish into Hydrogen "
Washington DC-based waste-to-hydrogen company SGH2 Energy will supply 3,850 tonnes of “greener-than-green” H2
annually to two of California's largest owners and operators of hydrogen refuelling stations under a ten-year contract."

Hazer in WA has a probably more cost effective method than SGH2 I suspect. [bigwhistle]

The lady with range anxiety in the Melbourne Toyota Mirai test drive during lock down was funny. Her Anxiety with enough range to drive around the outside of Melbourne left was a bit paranoid I felt. [biggrin]

AK83

19th June 2021, 04:16 PM

I like hydrogen as the fuel for energy going forward.
The possibilities of it's acceptance won't be realised properly in our lifetimes, just like the future of the automobile wasn't fully realised to those 130 odd years ago too.

They were damned expensive for one thing .. as well as many other issues that came with owning one. Parts, services, fuel ..

The songs says history never repeats, but me thinks it does .. time and again it seems to repeat with monotonous regularity.

Of course a new system, that's not entrenched into our every day lives will be expensive, annoying to live with, and so on, but it's not for us.

It's our duty to begin the process of embedding it onto every day society, so that say in 20 or 30 years time, filling up at a gas station is just an every day thing they will just do .. like it's nothing abnormal.
Toyota's Mirai is some ridiculous $80K or something, for (basically) a Corolla!

So many players are charging hard and fast coz it needs to be the future.
Battery powered vehicles are a silly idea, especially Lithium types. if they figure out a more sustainable battery type that is truly 100% renewable, then no problem.

Toyota are hedging their bets on hydrogen in more ways than one ...

Hydrogen Race Car (https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/35209996.html)

fuel cell and combustion engined types too.
if it helps to normalise hydrogen as an acceptable energy source, then they will all be better for it.

One day in the future the costs/greeniness/supply chain/safety levels issues will all work themselves out, and those future folks will have less to worry about.

... well, until the next fatalistic planet killing issue will crop up for them to concern themselves with.

More techy info and math numbers on the hydrogen race car can be found at the engineer chap on youtube too.

https://youtu.be/3IPR50-soNA

I found some idiot on the web denigrating the performance of the vehicle in the race, with some idiot remark that it only raced 12 hours of the 24hour race!
Does it not occur to people that development comes with issues? [bighmmm] not going to link to his article.

One thing that is worthy of mentioning, is that while the race car may have had it's fair share to issues, it did seem to maintain itself(and its fuel) as a whole ... and not end up in a rapid exothermic expansion situation.
Unlike other, historical, lighter than air modes of transport may have in the past. [tonguewink]

NavyDiver

21st June 2021, 01:12 PM

Depends where hydrogen is deployed. Currently billions of tonnes used in fertilizers, our current fuels, Rocket fuel and other uses. The race is not necessarily in cars.

I have a spreadsheet of $$$ investmented in Hydrogen. It has a column for Confirmed and possible Hype

"Arab economies jostle for position in $200 billion green hydrogen race" was news over the last few days and may need a new geographical column?

"RIYADH: Another week, another huge green hydrogen project announcement in the Middle East. This time, it was Egypt’s turn. The most populous Arab nation is planning to invest up to $4 billion in a project to create hydrogen through electrolysis powered by renewable energy, Egyptian Minister of Electricity and Renewable Energy Mohamed Shaker said on June 14.
The disclosure follows a flurry of announcements last month, including Oman’s plan for the biggest green hydrogen plant in the world, to be built over the coming 27 years along with 25 GW of solar and wind power.
Also in May, Dubai launched the region’s first industrial scale solar-powered green hydrogen plant, a demonstration facility built by Siemens Energy and Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (DEWA).
Later in the month, Abu Dhabi got in on the act as it revealed plans for a $1 billion facility with capacity to produce 200,000 tons of green ammonia from 40,000 tons of green hydrogen (hydrogen is turned into ammonia for long-distance transport before being transformed back for use).
As for Saudi Arabia, it unveiled plans in July last year for a green hydrogen facility powered by 4 GW of wind and solar, the world’s largest such project at the time. The $5 billion plant will be built by Air Products, ACWA Power and Neom and will be capable of producing 650 tons of green hydrogen a day, enough to run about 20,000 hydrogen-fueled buses.
“The Middle East has joined the green hydrogen wave with mega project announcements,” said Flor Lucia De la Cruz, a senior research analyst for hydrogen and emerging technologies at Wood Mackenzie. “The Middle East has now positioned itself to become a key player in the green hydrogen economy leveraging its solar and wind capabilities and strategic position in between the European and Asian markets.”

"

Suspected non CO2 hydrogen wave is growing daily. Not pretending there are no risks of course. If this is not all hype we just might have one of the biggest in the world. Asian Renewable Energy Hub (https://asianrehub.com/)

Proof is in delivery of course. [thumbsupbig]

DiscoMick

21st June 2021, 02:12 PM

There is a $50b green hydrogen export proposal for WA, but it has just run into an environmental issue. Not posting the link because of politics, but the story is easy to find.

NavyDiver

23rd June 2021, 05:52 AM

There is a $50b green hydrogen export proposal for WA, but it has just run into an environmental issue. Not posting the link because of politics, but the story is easy to find.

I wondered if it was mostly to do with a change from QLD. skip that as it is political [biggrin] The environmental impact of the Asian renewable energy hub would have considerations. Odd the news is BLOCK it when its scale was proposed to be bigger than many countries so isolated areas of that proposal could be moved if needed?

Looking at 50+ hydrogen trains yesterday coradia Ilint order and deliveries - Checking re the fuel cells- It is Cummings making/supplying those ones. If one of the biggest in industrial big engines. A Canadian Ballard is no laggard and hyzon fuel cells is making waves with fuel cellls as well.
"Cummins 200kW fuel cell system is the world's first heavy-duty fuel cell composition with fuel cell power modules, water management, hydrogen management, power systems, heat management and control system—all in a roof-mounted rack (https://www.cummins.com/new-power/applications/trains)."

A chat I listened to last night suggested a $1 per kilo hydrogen pump price before 2030 made reference to Australia and the Asian renewable energy hub. The number is WOW. Sub $3-5 per kilo hydrogen at the pump price would obliterate ICE as a fuel preference on purely a cost basis. The biggest cost of transport is not a million $ truck or train. Its the many multiples in fuel cost over the life of a large transport of any kind ship, train or truck.

That last fact was suggested by from CEO of Hyzon motors who is an Aussie. He made a comment all project prior to know were Bespoke one off and very expensive. His fuel cell products, like Cummins, are able to integrate with many platforms.

Not sure if I scratch off the line for the possible investment from the Asian renewable energy hub yet as I expect a few changes might see it happily the biggest H project in the world. Hope so as an investment in a H shipping design engineering company I have might get hammered otherwise[biggrin]

DiscoMick

7th July 2021, 07:53 PM

Latest LRO p.19 says JLR is testing hydrogen fuel cells and will have a prototype on the road later this year.

NavyDiver

8th July 2021, 09:18 PM

Another new 250 million pounds about to go into the hydrogen basket by the end of the Month. Australians cannot buy in directly sadly.

Home - HydrogenOne Capital (https://hydrogenonecapital.com/)

The US plans to have no carbon emitting power by 2035 is fascinating to consider. 75 billion in US Government funds is possibly two hundred forty billion in private investment. 75% of US power is private utilities.

"In 2020, about 4,009 billion kilowatthours (kWh) (or about were generated at utility-scale electricity generation facilities in the United States.1 About 60% of this electricity generation was from fossil fuels—coal, natural gas, petroleum, and other gases. About 20% was from nuclear energy, and about 20% was from renewable energy sources. The U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates that an additional 42 billion kWh of electricity generation was from small-scale solar photovoltaic systems in 2020.2

"

Allowing for growth - moving 60% + of 4.01 trillion kWh of electricity to non C02 emitting sources in 14 years has a race on with the gun gone off already! This map show every power plant in every US state (https://www.eia.gov/beta/electricity/data/browser/#/topic/1?agg=2,0,1&fuel=vtvv&sec=g&geo=g&freq=A&datecode=2018&tab=overview&start=200101&end=201710&ctype=linechart&maptype=0%3Cype&rse=0&pin=).

Wind growth is amazing yet (https://www.eia.gov/beta/electricity/data/browser/#/topic/0?agg=1,0,2&fuel=008&geo=vvvvvvvvvvvvo&sec=o3g&linechart=ELEC.GEN.WND-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.WND-IA-99.M~ELEC.GEN.WND-TX-99.M&columnchart=ELEC.GEN.WND-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.WND-IA-99.M~ELEC.GEN.WND-TX-99.M&map=ELEC.GEN.WND-US-99.M&freq=M&start=200101&end=201710&ctype=linechart&ltype=pin&tab=overview&pin=&rse=0&maptype=0&datecode=null)not a hope of getting close the required replacement!

Nuclear is really the only option by 2035 (https://www.eia.gov/beta/electricity/data/browser/#/topic/0?agg=1,0,2&fuel=08&geo=vvvvvvvvvvvvo&sec=o3g&linechart=ELEC.GEN.NUC-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.NUC-PA-99.M~ELEC.GEN.NUC-IL-99.M&columnchart=ELEC.GEN.NUC-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.NUC-PA-99.M~ELEC.GEN.NUC-IL-99.M&map=ELEC.GEN.NUC-US-99.M&freq=M&start=200101&end=201710&ctype=linechart&ltype=pin&tab=overview&datecode=null&maptype=0&rse=0&pin=) I suspect! Wind would have to double just to catch up with Nuclear in the US. Large and small scale nuclear is my bet.

DiscoMick

13th July 2021, 12:53 PM

This sounds like a great project to produce green hydrogen.

Plan to build world’s biggest renewable energy hub in Western Australia | Renewable energy | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/13/plan-to-build-worlds-biggest-renewable-energy-hub-in-western-australia?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)

Tombie

13th July 2021, 08:39 PM

15,000acres reflecting heat back up from
Massive solar arrays. Which also reduce light to the ground.

Hmm what could possibly be the next big issue?

Perhaps this plague of oversized house fans and aluminium framed silicon wafers [emoji56]

NavyDiver

19th July 2021, 09:19 AM

At Tokyo 2020, hydrogen shows promise of a carbon-free future - Olympic News (olympics.com)

The Olympic Hydrogen City- Athletes Village - "athlete buses and heat water in the cafeterias, dormitories and training facilities"

"Olympic Partner Toyota, which also produced the world’s first hydrogen-powered cars in 2014, will supply approximately 500 Mirai fuel cell vehicles to the Games to help transport staff and officials. Toyota will also deliver 100 hydrogen fuel cell buses (FCBs) to ferry athletes around. Each bus has 10 hydrogen tanks to carry a total of 600 litres"

And " this will be the first time in Olympic history that the Olympic cauldron will be powered with hydrogen"

Not at all sure the colour of the Hydrogen used is important in this case. Showing the world it does and can occur is a key starting point. All the possible negative comment if it is grey hydrogen is also fine with me. It is then we can ask or show a scalable Australian hydrogen/Graphite C02 Negative process which would fit in almost any location all over the world.

I think it might be "Hideki Matsuyama" making history. I wonder if its with a flaming golf ball? "It remains unclear how the torch will enter the stadium for the opening ceremony; the games are due to begin on 23 July."

I am guessing how the Hydrogen Olympic cauldron will be lit up in a few days time.

One of the first countries to adopt a national hydrogen strategy in 2017, it is giving hydrogen a starring role at Tokyo 2020.

"With their immense reach and visibility, the Olympic Games are a great opportunity to demonstrate technologies which can help tackle today's challenges, such as climate change," said Marie Sallois in a release, Director for Corporate and Sustainable Development at the International Olympic Committee. "Tokyo 2020's showcasing of hydrogen is just one example of h ..

Have a great day

gavinwibrow

19th July 2021, 01:06 PM

DiscoMick

21st July 2021, 02:04 PM

JLR is planning a hydrogen Defender.

Land Rover Defender to run on hydrogen - carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/land-rover-defender-to-run-on-hydrogen-130477/)

PhilipA

21st July 2021, 03:01 PM

And think. At the Olympics they will only need one refuelling point location.

Regards PhilipA

NavyDiver

21st July 2021, 09:54 PM

And think. At the Olympics they will only need one refuelling point location.

Regards PhilipA
is that the ship from Western Port in Vic? [biggrin] just kidding that ship is still being built

NavyDiver

23rd July 2021, 04:30 PM

WA targets 12% of global renewable hydrogen export market by 2030The 2030 target was outlined in the McGowan government’s State Infrastructure Strategy, a 20-year blueprint for planning and investment decisions, and focuses on cheaper renewable generation technologies and the state’s target of net-zero carbon emissions by 2050. (https://reneweconomy.com.au/wa-targets-12-of-global-renewable-hydrogen-export-market-by-2030/)

That is HUGE plus. [thumbsupbig] Given the forecast is to just replace existing dirty hydrogen (70 Mt per year )and new needs for shipping and heavy transport, green steel and .... likely to be multiples of that 70 million tonnes per year.

With the "Global electrolysis capacity becoming operational annually, 2014-2023, historical and announce (https://www.iea.org/reports/hydrogen)d " showing as a mere fraction and growth rates in fuel Cells at a CARG (Compound annual rate of growth) which make to recent space rockets look slow and low altitude flights [biggrin]

You might think WA is dreaming? I assume they are smarter than your average state myself[biggrin]

NavyDiver

26th July 2021, 08:39 AM

1- Alameda-Contra Cost Transit District (AC Transit) has unveiled the first iteration of its zero-emission transit bus technology analysis (ZETBTA) study with hydrogen fuel cell buses achieving the highest total mileage.

The study is a robust side-by-side evaluation of the predominant engine technologies in use at transit agencies worldwide comparing hydrogen fuel cell electric buses (FCEB), battery electric (BEB), diesel hybrid and conventional diesel bus propulsion systems.

The study, that ran from July 2020 to December 2020 in the San Francisco Bay area, found that the FCEB’s had the highest fleet mileage out of all other options at 112,233 miles. link (https://www.h2-view.com/story/hydrogen-fuel-cell-buses-achieve-highest-fleet-mileage-in-ac-transits-new-zetbta-study/)

2- China getting its skates on "Great Wall Motor wants to be among the top three hydrogen powertrain suppliers by 2025

"

re 1. Noticed the Toyota FCEV Olymic buses cost a stupid amount! That seemed odd to new the Purchase cost comparison between an ICE buss and a FCEV buss was getting very close.

Proof and studies like the ZETBTA study are needed.

"Hyundai: Nexo (SUV), Elec CityFuel CellBus (city bus), and Xcient hydrogen truck (large truck). Hyundai are preparing for three additional models: STARIA (7-11 seater van), Solati (15-16 seater van), and Universe (express intercity bus)."

add Hyzon Motors, Hyundai, Toyota, Cummings and others this space
Alstrom H trains are now operating in Germany since 2018 and will be rolling out in "Germany, France and Italy for 59 trains"

Really looking forward to "Hyundai has joined forces with POSCO to launch a new innovation initiative to identify the best entrepreneurial, academic and technological projects related to hydrogen applications and technologies across the globe.Organised and support by InnMind, H2 Challenge is designed to become an open innovation platform for start-ups, academia and SMEs to share solutions and establish collaboration opportunities with Hyundai or POSCO"

Real data not LOOK AT ME style is needed.

DiscoMick

26th July 2021, 06:33 PM

I read there is a project to produce green hydrogen in Qld, I think in an industrial estate in Townsville, using renewable solar/wind energy, so it can be sold into markets which impose carbon taxes on products produced with fossil fuels.
I don't have the details handy, but from memory Origin may be involved.
Qld has a Minister for Hydrogen to lead hydrogen projects.

This report for investors predicts a big future for our hydrogen.

Devastating: Report warns of massive impact on jobs for mining and gas - InQueensland (https://inqld.com.au/business/2021/07/26/devastating-report-warns-of-massive-impact-on-jobs-for-mining-and-gas/)

Have you noticed Toyota's hydrogen fuel ads during the Tokyo Olympics?

NavyDiver

27th July 2021, 01:58 PM

I knew they used hydrogen in rockets. I did not know they can do it with just the Hydrogen Oxygen mix. Very cool

Jeff Bezos and crew have successfully completed “New Shepard’s” first human flight on 20 July, using liquid hydrogen and oxygen to blast into space.

By utilising liquid hydrogen, the space vessel uniquely produced close to zero carbon emissions instead leaving only a trail of water vapour in its wake.

"This could be considered the next step for hydrogen innovating space flight, low emission rocketry could be groundbreaking and clearly the industry is looking to hydrogen to provide the next step in rocket propulsion.
Hydrogen is also being utilised in the Neptune One spaceballoon to gently lift the spacecraft to the stars with the first commercial flights slated for 2024 already sold out."

Read more here: http://ow.ly/FhY850FDlqV (http://ow.ly/FhY850FDlqV?fbclid=IwAR0H5TG9lWp-msAQQuosDB1TK5_MPv9R1WnwY78oXgmC9i3V0ccI6RRckOU)

Now that was to big not to chase down The Netune One is a bit of wow "Neptune One, A Hydrogen Balloon, Will Take You to Outer Space for $125,000"" a bit cheaper than the bomb - sorry Rocket used by two billionaires [thumbsupbig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKq4sLERZ4M

Homestar

28th July 2021, 08:01 AM

Can’t post the link but check out Cadogans latest video - It’s about Hyundai’s new Hydrogen fuel cell truck they’ve just released onto roads in California. Truck is in production and 46 or something are already build with a thousand more coming.

His opening line is ‘Hyundai have just jammed one into Electric Jesus - and I don’t think it was consentual’ [biggrin]

NavyDiver

7th August 2021, 08:59 PM

Watching the amazing pace of the runners this morning chaperoned by a Hydrogen car or three. Car are not my look today.

OVERVIEW OF THE FRENCH HYDROGEN MARKETobjectives are 1 to 10 MW by 31 December 2023 and 10 to 100 MW by 31 December 2028 French State will invest €7bn by 2030, with €2bn to be directly invested as part of the government recovery plan to address the economic impact of the Covid-19 pandemic. Three priorities have been set for this investment: (i) decarbonising industry (with a carbon neutral objective for 2050), (ii) developing hydrogen mobility and (iii) supporting and developing France’s research capacity.

Spains hydrogen road map Oct 2020
" allocate €1.5bn to boost the use and production of renewable hydrogen by 2023"

The poms are a bit slow "UK Government’s long-awaited Energy White Paper, which was finally published in December 2020⁴. The Scottish Government published its Hydrogen Policy Statement⁵ on 21 December 2020. Both the White Paper and the Hydrogen Policy Statement confirm that a UK hydrogen strategy is coming in 2021, but we have not seen it yet." They are in some trains and also " United Kingdom (UK) on hydrogen projects, from the sublime (the HySpirits gin distillery in Orkney¹) to the ridiculously ambitious (ZeroAvia’s hydrogen fuelled plane²) and everything in between. The hype and excitement are mounting across industries and sectors."

June 2020, Germany "German government foresees a hydrogen demand of about 90 to 110 TWh by 2030. In order to accommodate this demand, electrolysers with a total capacity of up to 5 GW are to be built in Germany by 2030 (including the offshore and onshore energy production required for providing electricity for the electrolysis). This corresponds to a green hydrogen production of up to 14 TWh and a required renewable electricity quantity of up to 20 TWh. For the period up to 2035, a further 5 GW will be added if possible, by 2040 at the latest." Germany providing public funding amounting to €7bnNov 2020 Linee Guida per la Strategia nazionale sull’idrogen
Italians of course[biggrin] No dollars mentioned [bigwhistle]

Greece is fascinating as it has "The phasing out of lignite-fired power stations is one of the top priorities of the NECP, which sets a target of zero lignite-powered electricity generation by 2028. In line with these objectives, a Master Plan for Fair Development Transition was issued in December 2020, outlining the government’s commitments for the post-lignite era and also calling for investments involving renewable hydrogen⁴."

Lignite is a word Victorians should know as it is soft dirty brown coal.

all of the above was from Watson Farley & Williams - Energy, Real Estate and Transport Law Firm (https://www.wfw.com/) but all checked to the countries own reports as well. WFW is an international law firm not to be confused with a Wild life group [biggrin]

My quick adding showed hundreds of billions in the documents. Some spend in the next two years. The rate of change will be fun to watch.

Mean while Chinas plans in the sector are substantially bigger I see. "China is on track to become a powerhouse for the production of green hydrogen, one of the most promising alternative fuels for shipping, according to recent reports from BloombergNEF and Fitch. As the world's largest shipbuilder, largest exporter, largest port operator and third-largest shipowner, China's fuel policy choices will have a significant impact on the composition of the world fleet.
Hydrogen power is prominently included in the Chinese Communist Party's 14th Five-Year Plan"

That is enough to distract me from Mr Eilud Kipchoge's run at 8am (likely to start an hour early again as its HOT and Humid. Mr Kipchoge will have a Mirai with him the whole two hours he is running 42.2km[biggrin]

172683

DiscoMick

8th August 2021, 08:05 AM

Funny you post that as I'm just sitting here watching the same hydrogen car and the marathon.
Can see two Aussies right now near the front at the halfway mark.

NavyDiver

1st September 2021, 09:08 PM

Yestday Linde today China
"Linde will invest more than $1bn in decarbonisation initiatives and triple the amount of clean hydrogen production by 2028, the industrial gas giant has set out in its 2020 Sustainable Development Report."

Not to be out done China Sinopec added 4.6 billion[thumbsupbig]

Sinopec plans to spend $4.6 bn on hydrogen energy by 2025 (https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2173563/sinopec-plans-to-spend-4-6-bn-on-hydrogen-energy-by-2025) (China Petroleum & Chemical Corporation, or Sinopec, is a Chinese oil and gas enterprise based in Beijing. It is listed in Hong Kong and also trades in Shanghai and New York)

"Asia's biggest oil refiner said on Monday it plans to become China's largest company to produce hydrogen for use as a transportation fuel, targeting annual capacity of 200,000 tonnes of hydrogen refuelling by 2025."Sinopec will expand forcefully into making hydrogen from renewable energy, and zero in on hydrogen for transportation fuel and using green hydrogen for refining," acting Chairman Ma Yongsheng said."

Sound rather BIG to me yet in terms of meeting China's needs I suspect its is just a drop in the ocean. with the plan "The company aims to produce more than 1 million tonnes of so-called green hydrogen from renewable energy sources between 2021 and 2025"

Current Demand for pure hydrogen is around 70 Mt per year, mostly for oil refining and chemical production.
That is from Hydrogen – Analysis - IEA (https://www.iea.org/reports/hydrogen)

Scale is everything in this race. Hazer is really the only one with capacity to scale up to meed current demand.

Just to really rock the boat a Melbourne based ??? Warrego Zero Emissions Beyond the Road - H2x Global (https://h2xglobal.com/warrego/)

Put in an expression of interest. Buggers have a release date in QLD. Not sure if you northerners will let me come up [thumbsupbig] Hydrogen player H2X Global has big plans to launch its Australian produced hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV) in November.

NavyDiver

20th September 2021, 07:57 AM

Needed a distraction from counting Vaccines - Counting $$$$ in Hydrogen

Aussie time

Government sinks another $150 million into hydrogen industry

By Shane Wright (https://hotcopper.com.au/disallowed/by/shane-wright-h170pw)

September 19, 2021 — 10.30pm

2 (https://hotcopper.com.au/disallowed/politics/federal/government-sinks-another-150-million-into-hydrogen-industry-20210919-p58sym.html#comments)
View all comments (https://hotcopper.com.au/disallowed/politics/federal/government-sinks-another-150-million-into-hydrogen-industry-20210919-p58sym.html#comments)

An extra $150 million will be sunk by the federal government into hydrogen industrial hubs that all but guarantees a project in every state and territory across the country.
As the government boosts its environmental credentials ahead of an increasingly tough United Nations climate conference in Glasgow in November, Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Energy Minister Angus Taylor on Monday will announce the additional cash into hydrogen related industries.

Hyundai’s Nexo is the first hydrogen-fuelled vehicle to be certified by the Australian government for use on the road. The federal government is sinking more money into the developing hydrogen industry.
Hydrogen has emerged as a key element of the federal government’s emissions reduction strategy with a stated aim of producing hydrogen at $2 a kilogram. At that price, it is expected hydrogen is competitive with alternative energy sources.
The government has already committed more than $300 million towards four hydrogen hubs that will bring together producers, users and exporters in one location to reduce cost.

The most likely hubs were identified to come from Bell Bay in Tasmania, Darwin, South Australia’s Eyre Peninsula, the Hunter Valley in NSW, Victoria’s La Trobe Valley and the Pilbara region of Western Australia.
These locations have expressed interest in the concept, building on existing infrastructure and resources available in each region.
The extra $150 million will enable the development of two more hubs.
Mr Taylor said the hubs were crucial to the government’s hopes to turn Australia into a major hydrogen production and export country by 2030.
“We are looking to partner with industry, and work with state and territory governments to make
this a reality,” he said.

RELATED ARTICLE

Aviation (https://hotcopper.com.au/disallowed/topic/aviation-5ut)

Air NZ to work with Airbus on carbon-free hydrogen planes (https://hotcopper.com.au/disallowed/business/companies/air-nz-to-work-with-airbus-on-carbon-free-hydrogen-planes-20210915-p58rv4.html)

“Australia has the potential to be a world leader in the production of affordable and clean hydrogen, and our hydrogen industry could create around 8000 new Australian jobs and generate over $11 billion a year in GDP by 2050.”
Australia has pledged to reduce its greenhouse gas contribution by at least 26 per cent by 2030, based on 2005 emissions, but has not set a deadline to hit net zero. Most other developed nations have committed to roughly half their emissions by 2030 and to reach net zero by 2050 or earlier.
The government is offering grants of between $500,000 and $3 million towards hydrogen development and design grants. Grants of between $30 million and $70 million will be offered to establish the hubs.
The extra cash for hydrogen was announced after the government launched a campaign to explain its efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

The Australia’s Making Positive Energy campaign includes general media advertising.
Greenhouse gas emissions fell 5 per cent through the first year of the coronavirus pandemic, figures released by the government last month showed, with deep drops in electricity.
Critics argued the fall was due to one-off factors associated with the pandemic, including the shutdown of many industries and work-from-home orders, warning emissions were likely to rebound as the economy recovered.

Link
(https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/federal/government-sinks-another-150-million-into-hydrogen-industry-20210919-p58sym.html)

NavyDiver

21st September 2021, 09:37 AM

150 mill AUS yesterday is old news?- we can match that with Germany with a 80 million Euro which is 129,300,312.80 $AUD This 80mill euro is on the use side via Fuel Cell scale up so a WIN WIN WIN for all I think

System production: scaling up volume and size (https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/research/current-research/hydrogen/produktion-der-systeme.html)

this is on Fuel Cell side reported in this link (https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/germany-80-million-euros-to-fraunhofer-for-fuel-cell-production/) and other places

The SCALE up in that area is a race plus. Hyzon has announced trucks to a QLD Zinc mine " [B]Hyzon Motors to supply 154-ton fuel cell-powered hydrogen trucks to Australian subsidiary of Korea Zinc, world's largest zinc producer

- After an initial agreement in July, Hyzon has received a definitive order for five trucks from Ark Energy

- Hyzon is the only supplier of ultra-heavy-duty hydrogen trucks with in-house fuel cell technologies

..Ark Energy will lease the trucks to its sister company, Townsville Logistics, which will deploy them in triple (three-trailer) road train configurations as part of their short-haul fleet operating on a 30-kilometer loop from the Port of Townsville to the Sun Metals zinc refinery owned by the group. The fuel cell trucks, replacing their diesel equivalents, are expected to reduce carbon dioxide emissions by over 1,400 tons per year.
Hyzon expects to assemble the vehicles in Australia, aligning with the company's plans to boost local Australian production of fuel cell vehicles. Hyzon expects that the vehicles will be fueled at Ark Energy's SunHQ hydrogen hub in Townsville, with green hydrogen produced from an electrolyzer powered by a co-located solar farm.
The project is expected to be the first in the world to use Hyzon's ultra-heavy-duty fuel cell vehicles.

". Link (https://investors.hyzonmotors.com/news/news-details/2021/Hyzon-Motors-to-supply-154-ton-fuel-cell-powered-hydrogen-trucks-to-Australian-subsidiary-of-Korea-Zinc-worlds-largest-zinc-producer/default.aspx)
The time frame in that link suggest Delivery 2022. Assembly here in OZ is a happy event in my thoughts. The CEO is an Aussie :)

Another Aussie is heavily involved and her links and papers are here (https://www.google.com/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjFqO7h6I7zAhUW83MBHboKCtIQFnoECCcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fau.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fclaire-johnson-680a1766&usg=AOvVaw2vTr6c-BUanQzfB9_HCMQf)

I wonder where the assembly line is? Bet the state governments are all fighting for that[thumbsupbig]

PhilipA

23rd September 2021, 12:57 PM

NavyDiver

27th September 2021, 09:04 AM

Bluescope says NO way for Green steel .

Claim: Green Steel “Decades Off”, Requires “Affordable Renewables” – Watts Up With That? (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/09/22/claim-green-steel-decades-off-requires-affordable-renewables/)

They should know.
Regards PhilipA

The pilot size green steel place is heavily subsidized. Pretty sure it was flagged in prior post Phillip. No way yet is how it seem I think rather than 'no way'

"Australia currently leads the pack for proposed green hydrogen electrolyser capacity, with a total of 69 gigawatts of planned projects in the pipeline, pushing Western Europe into a distant second place, with 41GW of proposed projects in the pipeline.
Research by Rystad Energy showed Australia leading the pack, despite the consultancy finding that government spending to support green hydrogen production only totals about US$290 million there, and Canberra has yet to set any green hydrogen capacity targets." Edit. The Link (https://www.upstreamonline.com/hydrogen/australia-leads-green-hydrogen-pack-with-69gw-project-pipeline/2-1-1072243)

Just looking at a company I had then sold. It is now suggesting it has via a partnership with Hydrogen Production — Synergen Met (http://www.synergenmet.com/hydrogen-production)
who has 12 years claimed developing a containerized plasma technology methane pyrolysis unit, PFAS destruction and on-site cyanide plant.

Synergen Met Pty Ltd Dr Geoff Duckworth (B.Eng. (Chem)), B.Eng.Sci., PhD) has several papers I am having a look at now.

The onsite cyanide for mining industry is a bottler of a technology "Modular On-site Cyanide Production Unit by Synergen Met Pty Ltd and University of Queensland." The containerized plasma technology methane pyrolysis unit may be of huge interest to remote mining business if they have access to methane. Its real world small scale really so may not have applications at Steels level supply/demand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PQvqxNh758

NavyDiver

27th September 2021, 09:30 AM

Looked a bit deeper at the cyanide/hydrogen plasma tech and can find little on it in actual use.

Great idea by UQ and Synergen Met Pty. Henty Gold in the video was owned by a very very big gold miner. Zip on the technology located making me wonder if it is just "a very good idea"?

I did laugh when it mentioned it vents the nitrogen and hydrogen to the atmosphere. Clearly things change between 2014 and 2022[biggrin]

Have a great day

NavyDiver

3rd October 2021, 08:35 AM

Cut and past of a investment review I did this morning over a coffee. a bit of a ramble

Columbia added a hydrogen plan in this media (https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/new-milestone-in-the-energy-transition-national-government-publishes-the-hydrogen-roadmap-for-colombia)

The oil business of course as everywhere is trying to stay in the game "State-controlled Ecopetrol is evaluating 18 possible hydrogen projects, including pilot projects for its Cartagena and Barrancabermeja refineries, that would require about $200mn-$300mn in investment, as part of Colombia's goal of developing hydrogen energy options"

Colombia's Ecopetrol eyes 18 hydrogen projects | Argus Media (https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2259875-colombias-ecopetrol-eyes-18-hydrogen-projects)

The ""Green hydrogen will complement Colombia's Energy Transition.. ... Similarly, green hydrogen, with a potential of more than 3 gigawatts in Guajira alone, represents great economic and development opportunities for Colombia in applications ranging from the use of this energy vector in refining processes, gas transportation , sustainable mobility and production of agricultural inputs. Additionally, there is great export potential in the medium and long term that would allow Colombia to position itself in the Asian, European and North American markets, taking advantage of its privileged location of access to the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, and its proximity to the Panama Canal. " in this media (https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/new-milestone-in-the-energy-transition-national-government-publishes-the-hydrogen-roadmap-for-colombia) suggest they have more than the Carbon Capture and storage dreams/challenges in mind.

It does have a "commitment to reduce CO2 emissions by 51% by 2030" I think that is interesting on several fronts for Hydrogen.

[B]Who else is trying to cut by 50% by 2030?

UN Climate Change News, 15 June 2021 –Over 4,500 non-state actors from across the global economy have committed to halving emissions by 2030, joining the UN-backed Race to Zero campaign. These actors from over 92 countries recognise the value and the imperative of racing to a zero-carbon economy to build a healthier, safer, cleaner, more resilient world for generations to come. Link (https://unfccc.int/news/halving-emissions-by-2030-is-new-normal-race-to-zero-anniversary)

The race to zero https://unfccc.int/climate-action/race-to-zero-campaign#eq-3 has " Google and Microsoft (through Exponential Roadmap Initiative), Apple, Pfizer and ENGIE (through Business Ambition for 1.5C); JLL and Visa (through The Climate Pledge), Minas Gerais through Under2; Nashik through Cities Race to Zero, and many more. See here (https://racetozero.unfccc.int/join-the-race/) for a full list of Partners and their members."

How to remove C02 when also accounting to the embedded C02 when they have a "Expert Peer Review Group (EPRG) tasked with reviewing Race to Zero partner applications and providing independent recommendations to the Champions on whether the initiatives meet the Minimum Criteria for participation"?
Melbourne for example is about to get 32 electric buses - I like the plan yet note some of the power for them is still from coal especially as I assume they will charge over night and 32 barely scratches the Melbourne bus fleet which is well over 550 buses. Stating the blindingly obvious- we haven't even started yet!

A Carbon Negative Process would clearly make that goal a lot easier now matter who is counting! Happily we know who can do that and is proving that now at a commercial scale.

On a local side BHP is a interesting one to watch. https://www.aemc.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-06/Australia%202019.pdf

The map of Austrlain Power Generation has a BHP site- Olympic Dam in South Australia. Most of us know of that gold, Copper, Uranuim ....

They have three stated C02 goals
1 By 2022 Our target is to continue to grow our business while maintaining our operational emissions at or below the level they were in 2017**.
2 By 2030 Our target is to reduce our operational emissions by at least 30 per cent from the level they were in 2020**.
3 By 2050 Our goal is to achieve net zero operational emissions.

Cannot find BHP specific data on how much fuel it burns, It is part of over a Billion liters in this report they contributed to https://www.nedapidentification.com/cases/over-1-billion-litres-of-fuel-and-oils-annually-authorised-by-nedap-at-australian-mines/
I know via some investments I have or had in Gold, the fuel cost at mine sites is one of the most significant.

Who does the mining is not always the mine owner. Downer EDI Mining Pty Ltd for example is huge and operates 40 odd mines here. The AFR "Downer EDI chief executive Grant Fenn" "Mr Fenn said governments would stop buying diesel buses as they shifted to electric buses (https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/nexport-flags-joint-ev-site-with-tritium-20210727-p58d9k) and Downer planned to switch its vehicle fleet to electric power." and on Hydrogen "The company is designing and installing more renewable power facilities as customers come under pressure to decarbonise, and hopes to participate in hydrogen projects through its existing alliance with Mitsubishi Power, which has been investing in hydrogen technology."
Downer EDI sees the wind is blowing strongly with escape a plan?? "Downer has been selling off its mining operations"
Paywalled link (https://www.afr.com/companies/infrastructure/downer-edi-will-be-a-net-winner-in-sustainable-world-ceo-says-20210811-p58hy2)

We need mining. We need energy. We all need clean energy. It can and will be carbon negative and clean which is my little point :)

NavyDiver

5th October 2021, 07:29 PM

Cheeky Mr Forrest- takes 30million grant for a gas fired power station at Port Kembla them makes it Hydrogen. It is a gas of course[biggrin]

"The Morrison government will provide a $30 million grant to a proposed gas power station backed by resources billionaire Andrew Forrest, but it turns out that the project will aim to rapidly avoid the use of fossil gas.Federal energy minister Angus Taylor announced on Tuesday that the federal government will be providing a $30 million grant to Australian Industrial Power, a subsidiary of the Andrew Forrest backed Squadron Energy, to progress the development of a 660MW gas-fired power station at Port Kembla.Taylor released a statement to multiple media outlets on Monday (RenewEconomy was excluded as usual) and pitched the grant as part of the Morrison government’s “gas led recovery”, saying it was essential for the economy to bounce back from the Covid recession, and for grid reliability in the face of rising renewables.“New gas supply and generation will help re-establish a strong economy and make energy more affordable for families and businesses, while complementing the world-leading levels of renewables in Australia,” Taylor said.But Squadron Energy was quick to point out on Tuesday that the new generator will limit the amount of fossil gas ever used at the plant, and it will run entirely on green hydrogen by the end of the decade.Squadron had originally flagged around one third of the fuel supply would come from green hydrogen from the first commissioning, but Forrest now says it will use 50 per cent green hydrogen from day one, and will transition to operating entirely on green hydrogen by 2030."

Squadron aims to have the power station up and running by the 2024/25 summer, it means the plant may only ever partially run on fossil gas for a few years – effectively eliminating any prospect that such a power station could be a boon for Australian gas producers.Forrest said that the Port Kembla project would become Australia’s “most significant and largest green hydrogen power station”.“As soon as that green hydrogen is available, which we are on schedule to achieve by 2024-2025, the power station, currently licensed for dual fuel, will commence use of green hydrogen,” Forrest said."

Link to the story (https://reneweconomy.com.au/forrest-punctures-taylors-gas-led-recovery-grant-with-quick-switch-to-green-hydrogen/)

Honestly the real yarn today is from Forest via Forsescue Metals Groups huge hydrogen (http://FMG pledges to eradicate customer emissions by 2040) plan.Australian miner Fortescue Metals Group has vowed to eradicate emissions by customers using its iron ore to make products including steel....The company, which is chaired by Australia's richest man, Andrew Forrest, said green hydrogen was key to making emissions-free steel while providing a renewable fuel for its fleet of eight iron ore carriers.

Before the dust settled on both of those POSCO (Korean Steel Giant) jumped in to the Australian hydrogen/Green steel. Some days things just go BOOM.

What is most interesting is Squadron Energy is the GAS (https://www.squadronenergy.com/) player in the area. The $1.3 billion project is being developed by Australian Industrial Power (AIP), a part of Tattarang’s energy division, Squadron Energy, and will become Australia’s largest dual-fuel (gas and green hydrogen) power station, utilising 21st century technology to produce safe, reliable and lower emission electricity to support the rapidly growing energy needs of NSW.

The power station will have an anticipated capacity of 635 megawatts (MW) and will be capable of operating on up to 50 per cent hydrogen by volume from day one and is projected to operate on 100 per cent renewable energy by 2030.

Port Kembla Power Station Awarded Critical State Significant Infrastructure Status | Squadron Energy (https://www.squadronenergy.com/news/2021/port-kembla-power-station-awarded-critical-state-significant-infrastructure-status/)

NavyDiver

25th October 2021, 12:57 PM

"Hatch, Anglo American, BHP, and Fortescue have formed a Green Hydrogen Consortium to look at ways of using green hydrogen to accelerate decarbonisation within their operations globally. Primarily, the Consortium aims to collectively help to eliminate the obstacles to the adoption of green hydrogen technologies and encourage innovative application."

Never heard of Hatch before? Neither had I. "About Hatch (https://www.hatch.com/About-Us/About-the-Company)"

"Anglo American says fuel cell-battery hybrid mining truck project at Mogalakewna entering final phase with testing start Q4 2021 (https://im-mining.com/2021/07/29/anglo-american-says-fuel-cell-battery-hybrid-mining-truck-project-mogalakewna-entering-final-phase-testing-start-q4-2021/)
"

The Aussie FCEV ute "H2X Warrego hydrogen fuel cell ute" at almost $200,000 might be a fizzer? Price multiple for a ford ranger conversion seems a bit much plus sadly.

Oddly Japan restarting 15 Nuclear plants seem to including hydrogen generation from the spare capacity they will have. This is old news "Commercialization of this reaction, called the IS (iodine-sulfur) process, was considered problematic, but the HTTR research team (https://www.jaea.go.jp/04/o-arai/en/research/research_03.html) achieved 150 hours of continuous hydrogen production — the standard for long-time operation — two years ago." Link to full story (https://japan-forward.com/nuclear-hydrogen-reactor-japans-next-generation-earth-friendly-energy/)

NavyDiver

3rd November 2021, 03:56 PM

This was interesting and a Big Missed opportunity for our Pollies I thought
Overnight, the US and the European Union announced more than 100 countries have joined their bid to cut methane emissions by 30 per cent by 2030.
"I think we could probably go beyond that," Mr Biden said during his address at the UN conference in Glasgow.
(https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-03/australia-refuses-to-join-global-pledge-to-cut-methane-emissions/100589510)
"We just announced this package at the [UN] General Assembly back in September, at the time [it] was mentioned just nine countries had signed on." (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-03/australia-refuses-to-join-global-pledge-to-cut-methane-emissions/100589510)

I know the cool WA woodmans point plant is not turned on for several weeks yet but it is on track to make the worlds first carbon negative Hydrogen from Methane captured which is major benefit for everyone

NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE!! DO NOT TAKE INVESTMENT ADVICE FROM IDIOTS LIKE ME EVER!

Australia has a clear lead in using captured methane. 100 of millions spent by Linde, Bosch, BOC, Yarra haven't got close to where this WA company has. Patented and proven just the proof at scale to go.

At COP26 the star I felt was David Attenborough's cop26 speech. He said "he had witnessed "a terrible decline" during his 95 years of life, but was confident that the next generation could and should see "a wonderful recovery".

Fully agree that technology is needed to help contain climate change and I fully agree we can all benefit if we open our eyes a little bit to the long term science in this area.

Alas my Hydrogen Disco Conversion is not yet here- More than sure it will be in the next few years making a 30% reduction in methane profitable for those who can use the captured methane.

NavyDiver

28th November 2021, 08:15 PM

This was If true a real game changer

HydroStar

Electrolyte B9

Advanced Technology Electrolyte – the electrolyte has been indevelopment and research for the last 10 years and has numerous patents pending. This technology is at a substantial cost difference to the dangerous KOH that is used in some other types of hydrogen manufacturing. Early results have shown that this electrolyte can be used as a straight replacement for KOH. This would reduce their OPEX and increase the benefits to the environment simultaneously.
Benign and FDA approved – not only does this product have advanced ways to split H2O it is perfectly safe to touch and food grade product, also is Benign hence the naming of the liquid. This will ensure that the safety of workers, installers and the end users are kept in mind during the whole process. Also will ensure road / sea transport will not become a business liability in the future as product is non-flammable.
Recyclable and Reusable – as with any conduit products do have a life cycle, B9 has been specifically manufactured to enable retrieval of the liquid and we have a process for recycling the B9 into brand new effective electrolyte. For optimal efficiencies it is desired that this liquid be cycled on a 12-24 month period to maintain the same H2 production. We are also researching the third generation of the B9 liquid to increase the efficiency of separation and the duty cycle before degradation occurs
Replacement KOH Substitute – KOH / potassium Hydroxide or Caustic Potash is used in a wide range of leading edge hydrogen production facilities, not only does it have environmental effects it can also be quite costly as it will also need pure de-ionized water.
Real World Success – not only has this product received third party testing from two international universities it is also undergoing second phase testing with the Department of Energy in USA for Hydrogen generation in Portland, Oregon undertaken by HydroStar, which has been producing green H2 onsite

https://hydrostarusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screen-Shot-2019-06-24-at-11.20.22-AM.png

HydroStar Electrolyzers - HydrogenNowCast | Podcast on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/episode/5ZMUfbtbPFya0bDz4Lsurf'si=IYhh8v9QQeikqsTF7apLIA)

Have to warn you the music at the start is WTF. Skip the first minute!

Stainless steel and the non toxic catalyst is claimed to be almost as efficient as other fuel cells. If so I am in![biggrin]

Bosch and another Canadian company I have a few shares in might be worried? A post in general chat on EVs by Spudfan is correct in the materials in current batteries and fuel cells have some items worth noting (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/288420-consequences-buying-ev.html)
Bosch information shows the current way which has some issues (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/288420-consequences-buying-ev.html)
The 2022-4 ish date is so long to wait[bawl]

NavyDiver

3rd December 2021, 06:35 AM

My cut and paste from a note I put on an investment spriuking site. Not Financial advice !!!

'Our largest energy source': South Korea plans 40 foreign hydrogen bases to meet vast future demand
Nation says investment and technology clout will secure supplies of 28 million tonnes a year by 2050Any where any place and any time (https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/our-largest-energy-source-south-korea-plans-40-foreign-hydrogen-bases-to-meet-vast-future-demand/2-1-1110526) Bonus for GEV and Hazer I assume. We can see via Germany and Japan, Korea is not alone in looking how to and also where to.

Australian bonus plus

GEV is trying to build Hyrdgen ships and Hazer is a WA gem I love

NavyDiver

18th January 2022, 01:12 PM

Might need to ring Mario ASAP. A Japanese ship should be about I want to see. It left japan 24 Dec and took a slowish scheduled two weeks so may be here still?

Warning investing waffle link (http://)[biggrin] Never buy shares on other idiots advice! Except CSL perhaps? [bigwhistle]

PhilipA

18th January 2022, 01:57 PM

Article in The Australian today.

When will Fortescue match its green hype with hard numbers?
It's a long article but relevant to the topic.

It is high time the ASX applied the same standards to Fortescue *Metals as it does across the rest of the market.

Fortescue’s disclosure habits around its green energy arm, Fortescue Future Industries, have gone past the point of being a bad joke.
I have no doubt that every *single announcement made by FFI is on the right side of the ASX disclosure laws, however close to the line I may think they run.

But their cumulative effect has distorted the market for For*tescue shares and regulators should subject the company to far greater scrutiny.
Early on Monday morning, FFI sent around a release about yet another early-stage deal struck by the company, this time to sell up to “100,000 tonnes of green hydrogen equivalent per year, starting as early as 2024” to German plastics major Covestro.
Like most FFI releases, the *announcement is long on the benefits of green hydrogen and desperately short on details of the commercial arrangements included in the memorandum of understanding.
READ MORE:Fortescue quizzed on green energy push (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/fortescue-metals-group-unveils-800m-green-energy-spending/news-story/0705aecf3ffa69cf5fdb138502cf5796)|Forrest’s green vows hit $200bn (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/andrew-forrests-green-energy-promises-hit-200bn/news-story/4c9bbd3a3850187c5ca6a888cdf59924)
There is no mention of pricing, of where the hydrogen will come from, or how much it will cost to produce.
Viewed cynically, the agreement could be interpreted as little more than a nod in the direction of market sceptics who have criticised Fortescue’s spending on FFI, and have been asking when the grand idea will begin to deliver returns to shareholders.
Even the tentative delivery of the hydrogen in 2024 raises more questions than it answers.
Fortescue has not yet announced any investment decision on a hydrogen project that could deliver commercial-scale volumes by 2024. Nor has it given any indication of how much a plant could cost, how long it would take to build, or how cheaply hydrogen could be produced.
Last year The Australian calculated the capital spending needed to make good on even a small portion of the green hydrogen projects Fortescue was studying. The figure was a hair-raising $US145.5bn (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/andrew-forrests-green-energy-promises-hit-200bn/news-story/4c9bbd3a3850187c5ca6a888cdf59924).
Fortescue has disclosed none of it to the market.
Outgoing Fortescue chief executive Elizabeth Gaines has repeatedly been challenged on FFI’s business model (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/fortescue-metals-group-unveils-800m-green-energy-spending/news-story/0705aecf3ffa69cf5fdb138502cf5796) by analysts, journalists and fund managers.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/49d7c77487003cc63156b0091f5eb8e5?width=320 (https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/49d7c77487003cc63156b0091f5eb8e5)Fortescue CEO Elizabeth Gaines. Picture: NCA NewsWire/David Swift
Her response in an October analyst call was that Fortescue had not yet made any final investment decisions in hydrogen, but would inform the market when it did.
“We haven’t actually announced or approved any projects yet. We’re talking about the *opportunity of this industry which we think will be significant,” she said.
There’s also an argument around what is “material” for Fortescue, worth $66bn on the market. Even committing to a $1bn project is arguably not *“material” under the current rules.
But FFI’s PR blitz has been worth about $15.6bn to Fortescue’s market valuation, according to Citi analysts.
Regulators need to work out a way to deal with that cumulative effect.
Citi analysts noted last week that Fortescue’s share value had broken its long-term association with the iron ore price.
“In the last three months Fortescue shares are up 46 per cent, with benchmark iron ore up 8 per cent and iron ore peers up about 6 per cent on average. Iron ore prices alone can’t explain the outperformance,” Citi said.
“To bridge the valuation gap to peers, we need to assume an FFI valuation of about $US11.3bn ($15.6bn) … At this early stage and with no visibility, this seems a bridge too far.”
Both Gaines and chairman Andrew Forrest have been open about the role FFI has played in Fortescue’s share surge.
“We’re actually getting a recognition of both the excellent *operational performance and the breadth of opportunities that we have in front of us with the success of Fortescue Future Industries,” Gaines said last month, when announcing her resignation as CEO.
Gaines and Forrest also pointed to a doubling of the number of Fortescue shareholders over the past year, to about 70,000, as a sign of market support for FFI.
In reality, that suggests that large institutional shareholders have been selling stock to smaller shareholders, who may lack the resources to assess the risks posed by Fortescue’s green transformation. They certainly won’t find any discussion of those risks in For*tescue disclosures or FFI *announcements.
The situation has infuriated institutional investors in Fortescue, who have demanded the company outline its business case for hydrogen, disclose the commercial terms for deals and rough costings for early-stage projects.
Fortescue is yet to do so.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/3222906300767e08345539772c9976b9?width=650 (https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/3222906300767e08345539772c9976b9)Andrew Forrest at COP26 in Glasgow last year. Picture: Annabel Moeller
The ASX itself has almost certainly helped create this situation. For the past year the market operator has cracked down on so-called “marketing announce*ments” by fintechs, biotechs, explorers and other spiv-laden sectors of the market.
The ASX has blocked the release of many announcements, directing speculative plays to instead put details on their websites or in quarterly progress reports rather than in discrete market *announcements – which must *include concrete terms of any deals if they are to be approved for release.
That may well have helped calm the volume of garbage spewing from blue-sky spruikers, and has probably helped improve the quality of disclosure in announcements that make it through.
But it does not account for high-profile entrepreneurs such as Forrest – and Elon Musk, in the US – who know that their every word will be picked up and published to a vast audience, generally without much scrutiny along the way.
The doubters could be wrong, and FFI could make Forrest Australia’s first trillionaire. Or FFI could just fall over one afternoon in a puff of logic, when the engineers finish their sums.
If Forrest wants to get back to his glory days of selling blue sky to speculators with an appetite for risk, good on him. But if so, he should either take Fortescue private or spin FFI out and get on with it.
As it stands, FFI has added more than $15bn to Fortescue’s market valuation without disclosing a single hard number about how it expects to make money from hydrogen.
That is not how an orderly market should work.
If Fortescue won’t make the appropriate disclosures of its own accord, then the regulators should take action to ensure it does.

[/QUOTE]

BradC

18th January 2022, 02:27 PM

Article in The Australian today.

Timely. I was hypothetically talking to someone on the weekend with a "mate" (we've all got one) inside FFI who allegedly said "2024? We'll be lucky to get anything green working by 2027".

NavyDiver

18th January 2022, 06:10 PM

Timely. I was hypothetically talking to someone on the weekend with a "mate" (we've all got one) inside FFI who allegedly said "2024? We'll be lucky to get anything green working by 2027".

Woodmans point WA might be Brad. A bit of a hiccup with the metal work from China but that should be fixed soon I suspect. You WA crew rock on at that place and some of the biggest in the world apparently
Today a biomass to Hydrogen production announced a 100 million ish float on the US stock market to restart a power plant in NSW (https://reneweconomy.com.au/austalian-biomass-to-hydrogen-venture-readies-for-us-public-listing/) [bigwhistle]

"Verdant Earth has progressed plans to undertake a public listing in the United States, kick-starting a process to raise almost $100 million to fund the recommissioning of a New South Wales power station using biomass. Verdant Earth has been developing plans to use the now decommissioned Redbank power station, in Warkworth, with the ultimate goal of producing hydrogen, which it says could be certified as renewable through the use of biomass."

[B]Not suggesting we invest yet as no idea of the costs or ROI on that idea or other ideas! [biggrin] A lot of hot air in the sector as billions floating about in both Government(s) and private equity investments. Note that word INVESTMENT can be loose.

F.M.G. is a interesting case to watch. Mr Forest is dreaming big or going to be??? If your a betting person Shorting is a clue. The F.M.G. short sellers seem to be getting sharply more (https://www.shortman.com.au/stock?q=FMG)

Noting 2.5% of capital shorted is not off the planet. Game stop (US) was hugely shorted for example.

The Dog did give up at 10km again sorry. Get that beer in the fridge for me mate[biggrin]

NavyDiver

15th March 2022, 08:58 AM

BMW iX5 Hydrogen model nears production for 2022 - Automotive Daily (https://www.autodaily.com.au/bmw-ix5-hydrogen-nears-production-for-2022/)

6kg of hydrogen. Refuel in seconds (IF AVAILABLE )[biggrin] 500km range is a bit low given that bit?

Towing but only a light duty off road car that cost to much for me anyway[biggrin]

2022 short production run by BMW is a starting point. As bits are from Toyota a Hydrogen Landcruiser might beat Landrover to the line? [bawl]

scarry

15th March 2022, 02:06 PM

BMW iX5 Hydrogen model nears production for 2022 - Automotive Daily (https://www.autodaily.com.au/bmw-ix5-hydrogen-nears-production-for-2022/)

2022 short production run by BMW is a starting point. As bits are from Toyota a Hydrogen Landcruiser might beat Landrover to the line? [bawl]

LR have said EV doesn’t suit most of their range of vehicles,so it will be interesting to see what they do.

Toyota have been in bed with Yamaha for quite a while now developing hydrogen engines.

PhilipA

15th March 2022, 04:12 PM

6kg of hydrogen. Refuel in seconds (IF AVAILABLE ) 500km range is a bit low given that bit?

I thought this looked wrong so did a google and this came up.

1 kg of hydrogen is equal to [B]1 gallon of gasoline in btu equivalent. MRE electrolyzers require 48 kilowatt hours (KWH) of electricity to produce 1 kg of hydrogen.
So it will go 500Km on 6 gallons . That IS impressive.
More like 60Kg of Hydrogen methinks. And that would take BIG tanks.
Regards PhilipA
Here is a link of cutaway of a Toyota Mirai
toyota mirai cutaway - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+mirai+cutaway&sxsrf=APq-WBvGtpCRl5kwmNUxn6-IHVcQkgvAWA:1647324938596&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&fir=znAOEsFT4LPggM%252C_u3s4zp2ObAQyM%252C_%253Bf_-bHyyoDj_HdM%252CHnwSGztTfndIQM%252C_%253BXA5kvRJC2 1HwoM%252C_4h_p0V9lhBSQM%252C_%253BCyAMy50h66dwbM% 252CiOsDOQsZjrsPcM%252C_%253BlLxiNN-mS2pjRM%252CJm4ejCjxOYYolM%252C_%253BjYXoUMUO3aN8e M%252C8nBbZnzc5-UzLM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kR_jBVG0EvYbPYzEOiFsbL0PREmXg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkpq3Ou8f2AhUcwjgGHeaCAwIQ9QF6BAgDEAE#i mgrc=znAOEsFT4LPggM)

BradC

15th March 2022, 07:03 PM

So it will go 500Km on 6 gallons . That IS impressive.

The Mirai is a fuel cell vehicle. Hydrogen theoretically holds ~33.6KW/h/kg, so that's 201kw/h theoretical. Current best case fuel cell efficiency is about 45% leaving 90kwh.
A Tesla model 3 is rated at 5.1 miles / kw/h by the US EPA, so that'd give you 459 miles or 734km. So not out of the realms of possibility at all.

Now the energy required to *make*, store and transport that 6KG is something else again.

Tombie

16th March 2022, 12:08 PM

The Mirai is a fuel cell vehicle. Hydrogen theoretically holds ~33.6KW/h/kg, so that's 201kw/h theoretical. Current best case fuel cell efficiency is about 45% leaving 90kwh.
A Tesla model 3 is rated at 5.1 miles / kw/h by the US EPA, so that'd give you 459 miles or 734km. So not out of the realms of possibility at all.

Now the energy required to *make*, store and transport that 6KG is something else again.

That’s the fun of the colour system..

Blue vs Green [emoji6]

Then there’s the first Hindenburg moment and the tech will disappear.[emoji48]

350RRC

16th March 2022, 09:00 PM

That’s the fun of the colour system..

Blue vs Green [emoji6]

Then there’s the first Hindenburg moment and the tech will disappear.[emoji48]

AFAIK the Hindenburg burnt rather than exploded.

Hindenburg Disaster: Real Zeppelin Explosion Footage (1937) | British Pathe - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgWHbpMVQ1U)

The memorable LNG and LPG incidents were explosions but didn't bring the about the end of either.

There was the LNG ship that blew up in the Atlantic off Africa many years ago and the flash was satellite detected. No one walked (or swam) away from that one.

Was being reported for a week as Sud Efrica testing a nuclear weapon, with appropriate alarm bells.

And years ago there was the LPG semi tanker that blew up one night on the Hume after the driver had got out and stopped traffic beforehand. Was near Killmore, but no one was hurt.

By chance I actually saw the flash of that in the sky from the Bellarine and heard the boom a long time after, and have a newspaper clip with a pic of the tank that is spread nearly flat with wobbly baffle plates pointing skywards.

In any case it seems that a certain amount of premature death is quite acceptable to keep things 'moving along' these days.

cheers, DL

NavyDiver

18th March 2022, 12:01 PM

I thought this looked wrong so did a google and this came up.

So it will go 500Km on 6 gallons . That IS impressive.
More like 60Kg of Hydrogen methinks. And that would take BIG tanks.
Regards PhilipA
Here is a link of cutaway of a Toyota Mirai
toyota mirai cutaway - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+mirai+cutaway&sxsrf=APq-WBvGtpCRl5kwmNUxn6-IHVcQkgvAWA:1647324938596&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&fir=znAOEsFT4LPggM%252C_u3s4zp2ObAQyM%252C_%253Bf_-bHyyoDj_HdM%252CHnwSGztTfndIQM%252C_%253BXA5kvRJC2 1HwoM%252C_4h_p0V9lhBSQM%252C_%253BCyAMy50h66dwbM% 252CiOsDOQsZjrsPcM%252C_%253BlLxiNN-mS2pjRM%252CJm4ejCjxOYYolM%252C_%253BjYXoUMUO3aN8e M%252C8nBbZnzc5-UzLM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kR_jBVG0EvYbPYzEOiFsbL0PREmXg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkpq3Ou8f2AhUcwjgGHeaCAwIQ9QF6BAgDEAE#i mgrc=znAOEsFT4LPggM)

"The Mirai is equipped with a set of three light and strong hydrogen tanks made from high quality laminated carbon fibre reinforced plastic. " its compressed at about 280 bar I think. "

"

new Toyota Mirai has increased the world record distance to over 1000 km
After breaking the record, Mirai was refuelled, ready to go again in only 5 minutes link (https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-mirai-breaks-world-record-for-distance-driven-with-one-fill-of-hydrogen/)

the average fuel consumption was 0.55 kg/100km, with Mirai being able to store 5.6 kg of hydrogen.""
Not that Australia has a lot of hydrogen refilling stations yet[biggrin]

The new tanks are soo much better than my steel diving tanks. I wonder if I could? I bet I cannot get one for Air yet sadly. Ligher, stonger and much more AIR capacity- DOH

AK83

18th March 2022, 02:00 PM

....

The memorable LNG and LPG incidents were explosions but didn't bring the about the end of either.

....

I think more tellingly are the tales of oil slicks from tankers and processing plants that barely raised a blip on the tech radar of the petroleum system.
As far as I can tell the oil industry still thrives. This only shows that the level of care that the general population has for disastrous incidents is quite low .. if it exist at all.

Only things that seems to matter is /price/speed of/convenience factor. If they all coalesce into a usable system .. even if it blows half the world to smithereens and causes total global war .. people want it.

Wasn't there a total failure of the gas system here in Vic about 25 years ago, and you didn't have piped gas to your house, let alone LPG for vehicles(at a time when Ford were selling LPG only options for the Falcon too).
At the time I recall people making all sorts of noises on the issue .. Now, ask anyone if they remember that saga ... answer will be 'Oh, yeah, jeez I forgot about that one'.

it seems that 99.9% of the population has very short attention spans, and it seems that the percentage is growing and the span of the attention is getting shorter.

Any mention of a future full scale nuclear meltdown of any systemic hydrogen process is almost certain to be via TikTok, or Instagram or whatever other future 10 second news outlet app that is surely to be the one to have .. and will be forgotten a second later when the next news feed is pushed through.

350RRC

18th March 2022, 05:37 PM

..................
The new tanks are soo much better than my steel diving tanks. I wonder if I could? I bet I cannot get one for Air yet sadly. Ligher, stonger and much more AIR capacity- DOH

Aren't scuba tanks 200 bar?

I recently gave all my gear away, including the aly tank that I emptied beforehand.

DL

NavyDiver

18th March 2022, 06:45 PM

Aren't scuba tanks 200 bar?

I recently gave all my gear away, including the aly tank that I emptied beforehand.

DL

I heard 380 bar in the newer H tanks and even higher possible. Podcast on that very interesting company was Unsupported browser (https://open.spotify.com/episode/3lwIrh6R7fjYx7bWBD0Lxs'si=c5d966d0839a49f5)

In case your wondering I have asked Mr Jørn Helge Dahl, Global Director of Sales&Marketing at Hexagon Purus if Diving tanks are possible [biggrin] They are a bit larger scale and busy of course. He did promise to get back to me.

350RRC

18th March 2022, 09:10 PM

NavyDiver

19th March 2022, 07:31 AM

I wonder what could happen in SA, where the generators have been actually paying money to put power into the grid, if the 'excess' generation just lazily produced hydrogen on those 'unprofitable' days.

It's not like refining aluminium that needs constant power, just an opportunistic thing.

DL

The cost for doing that have reduced by about 100% every 5 years or less[biggrin] IF the Asian Renewable Energy hub (https://asianrehub.com/)can install wind and solar for hydrogen/ammonia in WA as expected at a cost effective rate using spare unused capacity for existing assets will be a gold mine[biggrin] The big battery types are fine. The capacity and flexibility and cost of Hydrogen offers over batteries will see that much sooner than many think. The Gigabyte Electrolyzer production in the UK (https://www.google.com/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjEmb_uyND2AhWfTGwGHQ_fAHYQFnoECAIQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishing.service.gov.uk %2Fgovernment%2Fuploads%2Fsystem%2Fuploads%2Fattac hment_data%2Ffile%2F866377%2FPhase_1_-_ITM_-_Gigastack.pdf&usg=AOvVaw22Ah2vgViJvNH1MqjjZDX3) is about to double when the first one was just starting.

The scale and size from just two years ago are being dwarfed by the existing and about to be built capacity. Of interest I think is all the current planned capacity is not yet even close to replacing the every year current use of hydrogen. With cost parity to Steam Methane reforming Hydrogen production future uses of Hydrogen are oddly irrelevant to the demand.

Being greedy I just want it for my Hydrogen Disco[biggrin]

A BEV trip to Wang for a little run for this Black duck. [bigrolf] A hydrogen tank alternating as my high capacity Diving Cylinder (2 perhaps) and Whole Building UPS portable hydrogen fuel cell is still on my wish list. Looking at a Hydrogen BBQ now[biggrin][biggrin]

NavyDiver

28th March 2022, 06:33 AM

It begins??? a FEW BILLION$$$$$$ more beside this one over the last week

[B]The three eastern seaboard states have made a start on a project to build a “renewable hydrogen” highway, with the state governments of Queensland, New South Wales, and Victoria signing an agreement to develop hydrogen refueling infrastructure for heavy trucking. Qld, NSW, Vic reach interstate hydrogen highway agreement (https://www.innovationaus.com/qld-nsw-vic-reach-interstate-hydrogen-highway-agreement/)

NavyDiver

8th May 2022, 10:50 AM

http://nuGen™ mining truck a smart step for Anglo American & giant leap for South Africa’s hydrogen economy (https://im-mining.com/2022/05/06/nugen-mining-truck-a-smart-step-for-anglo-american-giant-leap-for-south-africas-hydrogen-economy/)

290 tonne and first of many. ROI is working quickly with fuel cost in remote areas biting a lot more that the $2 ish about here US= "Diesel fuel prices keep breaking records this week but no one is celebrating.
On May 6, the average cost for a gallon of diesel fuel in America is $5.51. In many locations, it’s considerably higher than that.
And the price keeps going up, based on an analysis of data from AAA. The day prior, the cost for a gallon of diesel fuel was $5.47. And a week ago, it was $5.18. A month ago, the cost was $5.07." ($USd)[bigwhistle]

"Freight industry to be hit hard by huge diesel price increase" is South African news Remote diesel price gets hit both ways[bighmmm]

Back to hydrogen specific "Anglo American’s innovation-led approach to sustainable mining – which brings together technology and digitalisation to drive sustainability outcomes, “including our commitment to carbon-neutrality across our operations by 2040.” And the trucks are appropriately being launched at a platinum mine – each utilises 4 oz of platinum in their fuel cells – with each truck using eight Ballard FCveloCity®-HD 100 kW modules."

The Ballard Canadian fuel cells are next gen from a highly experienced long term fuel cell maker ( YEP I own some [biggrin])
NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE- I am good at loosing money[bigrolf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocCk1JUaQQk

Tombie

8th May 2022, 12:15 PM

Who pays $2 a litre? Mine sites are around $0.80 [emoji41]

NavyDiver

15th May 2022, 06:52 PM

Who pays $2 a litre? Mine sites are around $0.80 [emoji41]
fuel rebates from gov are nice Tombie. ATO guide to it (https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Fuel-schemes/Fuel-tax-credits---business/Rates---business/From-1-July-2021/)

If Hydrogen was given just a level playing field it would be even quicker than it will be [biggrin] Not minding as Hydrogen is not going to cost $2kg per kilo soon and 1 kg of hydrogen is about 1 gallon (6.2 pounds, 2.8 kilograms) of gasoline (https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_basics.html#:~:text=The%20energy%20in%202 .2%20pounds,%2C%202.8%20kilograms)%20of%20gasoline .)

[biggrin][biggrin] One will make us a motza soon mate. Other is funded by taxpayers or non taxpayers[bigwhistle]

Arapiles

2nd June 2022, 08:37 AM

Kubota to roll out first fuel cell tractor in 2025, eyeing U.S. and Europe -
Nikkei Asia (https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Environment/Climate-Change/Kubota-to-roll-out-first-fuel-cell-tractor-in-2025-eyeing-U.S.-and-Europe?utm_campaign=GL_JP_update&utm_medium=email&utm_source=NA_newsletter&utm_content=article_link&del_type=4&pub_date=20220602090000&seq_num=5&si=16c0a690-5624-4999-ad14-6002adaf8559)

OSAKA -- Kubota aims to bring the world's first hydrogen-powered fuel cell tractor to market as early as 2025, Nikkei has learned, as the Japanese manufacturer eyes growing Western demand for zero-emissions machinery.
The Osaka-based company is developing medium to large fuel cell tractors ranging from 50 to 100 horsepower. They are expected to be priced around 40% higher than leading diesel-powered alternatives, though details have yet to be determined.
.......
Tractors and similar equipment tend to be used in a specific location, so hydrogen could be delivered in tanks directly to their operators instead of through an extensive network of hydrogen fueling stations. This, in turn, could allow fuel cells to catch on in farming equipment ahead of other types of vehicles.

Arapiles

2nd June 2022, 08:39 AM

Hyundai hydrogen-fueled trucks making inroads in Europe -
Nikkei Asia (https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Transportation/Hyundai-hydrogen-fueled-trucks-making-inroads-in-Europe)

Gebrueder Weiss has been operating its Xcient since January 2021 in Switzerland, the country Hyundai chose as its launchpad into Europe. In the coming months, Hyundai will expand into neighboring Germany and Austria, along with Denmark, where partners H2 Energy, based in Zurich, Singapore's Trafigura and Phillips 66 of the U.S. are investing 300 million euros ($331 million) to create a corridor of 260 hydrogen fueling stations. H2 Energy played a key role in the development of the Xcient.
Meanwhile, the fuel cell trucks of rivals, such as Daimler and MAN, are still in the prototype stage. Hyundai, by contrast, already has 47 Xcients carrying loads for 25 customers in Switzerland.

......

"In its first year of service, our hydrogen truck made 70,000 km without any issues, despite Switzerland's mountainous terrain constituting a real challenge for the reliability of trucks," Juergen Bauer, a member of Gebrueder Weiss' board, told Nikkei Asia.
"Unlike battery-powered electric trucks, our Hyundai's range is virtually unaffected by the driver's use of heating or air conditioning. And once a sufficiently large network of hydrogen refueling stations is realized along European highways, the hydrogen truck will be able to run practically unlimited distances, thanks to short refueling times," Bauer said.

NavyDiver

15th June 2022, 03:53 PM

Nuclear melt down on the share market or should I say with the share market but possibly a lot less than most [biggrin] Hydrogen has been dropping with the General mob as well.

One Potato, Two Potato... You know the song.

‘H2Hubs’ will fuel American hydrogen production in $8 billion program - The Verge (https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/7/23158110/h2hubs-american-clean-hydrogen-production-8-billion-doe)

Americans just tossed 8 billion more in. It did not double the amount in my spread sheet of $$$$$ invested already which I think speaks loudly [biggrin]

The race to be a winner 20 years ago was FANG FaceBook, Amazon, Netflix and Google. It change to FAANG to add Apple.

New FANG was by Bank or America- "—Our Portfolio Tilt: Think FAANG 2.0: Our version of FAANG (fuels, aerospace, agriculture, nuclear and renewables, gold and metals/minerals) 2.0 reflects a new world of geopolitical risks and resource/hard asset intensity and is defined by rotations toward these areas (https://olui2.fs.ml.com/Publish/Content/application/pdf/GWMOL/CMO_3-7-22_Merrill.pdf#page4)"

Billions or Trillions flowing out of old FANGS into FAANG 2.0 or held and about to flow into new FAANGS
Money flows 20 years ago to the FANGs at that time where easy to see and predicable. Its even easier right now happily

Hydrogen and Nuclear are the Energy dynamic Duo https://twt-thumbs.washtimes.com/media/image/2014/11/15/batman_and_robin_900_c0-0-899-524_s326x190.jpg?78821f34084ea15434c0fb2feb6974335 88fb1b2

3toes

19th June 2022, 12:18 AM

Saw a paper the other day that said it takes 14 trucks to make a hydrogen refuelling station viable. They are working on bringing this down to 7.

NavyDiver

27th June 2022, 12:53 PM

Saw a paper the other day that said it takes 14 trucks to make a hydrogen refuelling station viable. They are working on bringing this down to 7.

I saw another few billion [biggrin] "Bosch To Invest $1.3 Billion In Hydrogen Technology By 2025" Bosch is still heavily involved in hardware and has been working on hydrogen fuel cell systems for some time. The company was an early investor in Nikola Motors. Bosch is supplying the fuel cell system and electric propulsion being used in some of Nikola’s upcoming long-haul trucks. The German supplier also produces the four electric motors used in the Rivian R1T and R1S as well as offering a range of electric drive units with integrated gearboxes and power electronics for commercial vehicles.
Link (https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2022/06/07/bosch-to-invest-13b-in-hydrogen-technology-by-2025/'sh=2749e3053692)

The story has a interesting 2010 flip from we have all heard about "Bosch was (and is) a major supplier of diesel systems including fuel injection and exhaust after-treatment. By the end of 2015, when it was discovered that Volkswagen and other automakers had been cheating on diesel emissions the demand for diesel components collapsed in favor of a shift toward electrification.".

The electrolysis of water to Hydrogen part is oddly it is a bit player I think. Without sufficient cheap electricity it is electrolysis is not always efficient and ability to go large scale is highly questionable.

I think Bosch and the rest are carefully waiting watching a large scale Demonstration plant in Western Australia just south of Perth myself.

3toes

28th June 2022, 03:29 AM

NavyDiver

29th June 2022, 04:54 PM

Story about hydrogen trucks that have been in use for a few years and based on experience being rolled out further

Hyundai hydrogen-fueled trucks making inroads in Europe -
Nikkei Asia (https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Transportation/Hyundai-hydrogen-fueled-trucks-making-inroads-in-Europe)
A company I hold a few of- NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE and it did do a belly flop plus after listing[biggrin][biggrin]
It seems to be doing ok now or is it just hot air?

I

"Nikola Adds 51 Dealership Locations in 9 StatesNikola announces expansion of its current Nikola dealer sales and service network with the addition of five dealers covering key territories.
Published July 15, 2021

"
It claims to or hopes to be "a leading designer and manufacturer of heavy-duty commercial battery-electric vehicles (BEV), fuel-cell electric vehicles (FCEV) and energy infrastructure solutions,"

It was almost a billion in a SPAC listing event which was sunny for a few weeks for me before going in to a melt down for a while [thumbsupbig]

NavyDiver

22nd August 2022, 08:00 AM

Building it BIG is a interesting topic. South OZ headline

"
‘Ambitious’: World’s largest hydrogen plant to be built in South Australia
23 hours ago

https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/80bb776d65b1b3f15506f402e4d7fa95
South Australian Premier Peter Malinauskas has spruiked his government’s $593 million green hydrogen plant to be built in Whyalla but says the plan does not come without risk.
The world’s largest hydrogen plant is set to be built in South Australia.
The government-funded project has attracted interest from 60 organisations around Australia and globally.
Mr Malinauskas said the plant is scheduled to be operational by the end of 2025.
He said it will alleviate pressure on the state’s energy system but “is not going to solve every problem”.
“It is an ambitious policy – it’s not without a degree of risk in a policy sense but also in a technical sense,” he told Sky News Australia.
“But everything that has happened since our election four-five months ago, has actually given me even greater confidence that our ambitions are able to be realised – principally because of the international interest.”

"

Tombie

22nd August 2022, 08:20 PM

We shall see…

Lots of lip service around here. Hope it comes to fruition; until construction begins I’ll reserve judgement.

BradC

22nd August 2022, 11:20 PM

** Trigger warning : The following is a work of fiction created by someone who has no background in power engineering, chemistry or physics and drives a diesel vehicle. Allegedly....

Translation : "We have no ****ing idea how to actually make Hydrogen in any viable manner that doesn't involve separating it from **** we dig/suck out of the ground, but if/when we ever figure it out then we want SA to be at the forefront. In the mean time, we'll continue to pretend Hydrogen is "green" and keep trying to convince the suckers it's the way forward while we suffer some of the highest electricity costs in the world because while we continue to dig/suck stuff out of the ground to create "green" hydrogen, we don't actually burn it directly and therefore are saving the world. Of course the electricity we use to dig/suck the stuff out of the ground is sustainably sourced (or would be if we could figure out how to make a wind turbine that made more energy than it took to create and install') but we won't talk about that because it might upset the suckers/taxpayers/voters who subsidize our outrageous power costs".

NavyDiver

24th August 2022, 08:30 PM

Another few million plus in the spreadsheet and possibly my bank balance - its shipping at one level And a GAS at another Provaris’ $4.5 billion [bigwhistle]

[B][B]Tiwi Hydrogen Project Awarded Major Project Status

24 August 2022

An export green hydrogen project on the Tiwi Islands is building momentum, with the Northern Territory Government announcing it has gained Major Project Status.
Provaris’ $4.5 billion Tiwi H2 (Hydrogen) Project has the potential to be a first-mover in the world’s transition from fossil fuels to zero-carbon energy, and will demonstrate the commercial advantages of compressed hydrogen production and export from the Northern Territory to markets in the Asia-Pacific region.

Major Project Status recognises the significant, positive and enduring impact Tiwi H2 will have on the Territory’s economy.
The project is estimated to create 500 jobs during construction and 100 positions once operational, with a lifespan of 30 years.
Tiwi H2 is strategically located on the Tiwi Islands - the traditional lands of the Munupi people. The project utilises existing plantation and industrial land to create jobs and income for the Tiwi people.
The Tiwi H2 Project intends to use solar energy to produce up to 100,000 tonnes per annum of green hydrogen for export markets, using Provaris’ proprietary GH2 Carriers for shipping to the Asia-Pacific region. The Tiwi Islands have existing port infrastructure and an industrial precinct at Port Melville providing a competitive advantage to export to the region. link to NT announcement (https://t.co/CgtNu3unCp)

Nice when you have owned a little bit for a fair while [bigsmile1]

NT hydrogen project given special status | The West Australian

(https://thewest.com.au/business/nt-hydrogen-project-given-special-status-c-7986513)Nicer ++++++ in another C02 free Nuclear power with Japan, US, India and more news going nuclear as well as Hydrogen

RANDLOVER

24th August 2022, 10:34 PM

HVO another way hydrogen can be used to make fuel.....Hydrotreated vegetable oil - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrotreated_vegetable_oil)

Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil (HVO) is a biofuel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofuel) made by the hydrocracking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocracking) or hydrogenation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation) of vegetable oil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_oil). Hydrocracking breaks big molecules into smaller ones using hydrogen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen) while hydrogenation adds hydrogen to molecules. These methods can be used to create substitutes for gasoline (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline), diesel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_fuel), propane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane), kerosene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene) and other chemical feedstock (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedstock). Diesel fuel produced from these sources is known as green diesel or renewable diesel.
Diesel fuel created by Hydrotreating is called green diesel and is distinct from the biodiesel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel) made through esterification.

NavyDiver

8th November 2022, 10:47 AM

Noted a few mining types in the news - Anglo American and BHP among others Some of the biggest diesel users moving (slowly but moving)

Production will take place in Fridley, Minnesota, starting at 500 megawatts (MW) of manufacturing capacity annually, scalable to 1 gigawatt (GW) in the future.
Alexey Ustinov, Vice President of Electrolyzers at Cummins, said:

Expanding Cummins’ electrolyzer manufacturing footprint to the United States is a milestone not only for our company but an important step in advancing global decarbonization efforts.
The trickle is turning into a stream?

Cummins to Start US Electrolyzer Production to Help Drive Green Hydrogen Economy - Hydrogen Central (https://hydrogen-central.com/cummins-start-us-electrolyzer-production-help-drive-green-hydrogen-economy/)

Narangga

16th November 2022, 06:59 AM

Green hydrogen to help power WA town of Denham in Australian renewable energy first - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-14/green-hydrogen-to-help-power-wa-town-in-renewable-energy-trial/101648728)

Denham Hydrogen Demonstration Plant – HyResource (https://research.csiro.au/hyresource/denham-hydrogen-demonstration-plant/)

NavyDiver

10th December 2022, 02:34 PM

"December 7 - This summer, Alstom announced the creation of the first fully hydrogen-fueled passenger train route in Bremervorde, Lower Saxony, Germany with 14, two-car Coradia iLint vehicles equipped with fuel cell propulsion. They will replace 15 diesel-powered trains currently running on the line.The trains, which have a hydrogen tank with a range of 1,000 kilometers and a maximum speed of 140 km/h, will be fueled daily at a Linde hydrogen filling station."

Waiting for Austral shipping to start a quiet ship race. I know for a fact ships make a lot of noise. It was very easy to hear a ship well before anyone could see it. Noise travels very well in water.

Looking at new billion$ US bombers and stealth concept is NOT exclusive to planes. The Ukrainian drone boats used very effectively recently had me thinking of DRO air detection. It is not at all difficult to hear ships, boats or most submarines with SONAR. Towed passive sonar, Sonar boys dropped from planes/helicopters or fix bottom or floating detection units.

Noise makes it easy at sea if you have the right equipment or even have your head underwater like I like to do. It is very clear from my quirky EV car the massive noise reduction has me carefully moving past pedestrians who often do not hear it. Jump in my tow tug/4wd and that's not an issue. Its noisy

A silent or near silent ship, boat or sea drone would be very possible FCEV has much better capacity than a few tonnes of batteries

Always thought the Rotto express should be the first FCEV trip I would like try of course

Have a great weekend all

350RRC

10th December 2022, 08:29 PM

.................

Always thought the Rotto express should be the first FCEV trip I would like try of course ........

Didn't know you played sokka.

[bighmmm] DL

NavyDiver

11th December 2022, 09:16 AM

Didn't know you played sokka.

[bighmmm] DL

My entire crew of 15/16 year olds had a camp on rotto isl for that[biggrin] Not supporting hurting the cute little 'rats'

Biggest cray fish I have ever seen also came ashore with me from that lovely place years later. I was told after we all ate it, that it was probably 80 years old! I now leave any over 5kg[thumbsupbig]

Back on H2. "BARCELONA/LISBON, Dec 9 (Reuters) - An underwater pipeline to carry green hydrogen between Barcelona and Marseille will cost around 2 billion euros ($2.1 billion), according to preliminary estimates of the project agreed between Spain, Portugal and France, two sources told Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/barcelona-marseille-hydrogen-pipeline-cost-around-2-bln-euros-sources-2022-12-09/)."

Of interest is while it is to France it is not for France which plans to use spare Nuclear power to H2!

" the leaders of the three countries will meet in the Spanish city of Alicante together with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen to discuss a construction timeline and financing for a new hydrogen pipeline."

Might be a by hyped up? "The project's timeline remains uncertain. Without technical, environmental or regulatory challenges, it could be completed between four and five years, said the first source with knowledge of the matter.
But the second, industrial source said French officials consider readiness by 2030 optimistic.

"

H2 is not hot air yet a lot of HOT air about [thumbsupbig]

PS Cray fish, abalone and three other water water bits on this weeks to do list- Minor operation Hernia booked for next Saturday. May be going past your way. Spares "if any" drop on the to do list as well if you like seafood[bigwhistle] If any of course is weather dependent! Wind forecast is not great[bawl]

Apollo Bay VIC Weather Forecast & Live Wind/Surf Report - Seabreeze (https://www.seabreeze.com.au/weather/wind-forecast/apollo-bay-vic-3233)

NavyDiver

13th December 2022, 08:51 AM

you might find this interesting.

An article today stated "The heavy metal club that would hurt China and Australia The US and European Union are contemplating a policy that combines trade and emissions reduction measures that could have a significant impact on China’s dominance of the global steel and aluminium markets and Australia’s role as a major supplier of the raw material for China’s steel and aluminium industries.

The proposal, put by the US to the European Union last week, would create an international consortium of like-minded members to pursue trade in metals produced with less carbon intensity, using tariffs to penalise metals produced with higher carbon intensity."

"The EU already has had its own somewhat broader approach to carbon-intensive trade, with its controversial “Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism” plan due to start operating from the start of next year. Under that plan the EU would impose a levy/tariff/tax on imports of carbon-intensive products like steel and fertilisers.

The mechanism has been designed to avoid putting EU companies at a competitive disadvantage to competitors that, unlike those in the EU, don’t pay a price for their emissions."
Link (https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/the-heavy-metal-club-that-would-hurt-china-and-australia-20221212-p5c5hy.html)

We know the options to make C02 free or C02 neutral steel. It requires Hydrogen and lots of it!

The Negative view is "As a major exporter of the raw ingredients for steelmaking and aluminium production – iron ore, coal, bauxite and alumina – Australia, for instance, could be materially impacted if China’s steel and aluminium industries were to shrink."

Who has lots of "raw ingredients for steelmaking and aluminium production"?
Who is likley to have lots of clean energy options?
Who has one of the best scalable Hydrogen

Add our side gig "Graphite electrodes are an essential component in the production of steel (https://www.coidan.com/services/electrodes/arc-furnace-electrodes/). "

Australia is in a box seat to make tariff free low /no C02 steel. The Green moniker is a bit abused I think. No C02 and no pollution is key. That includes land use foot print!

How much hydrogen is used is clear already via "The joint venture between Swedish steelmaker SSAB, energy company Vattenfall, and iron ore miner LKAB. A technology dubbed HYBRIT—a contraction of Hydrogen Breakthrough Ironmaking Technology—replaces fossil fuels both in the production of the iron pellets that are the key ingredient of steel, and in the removal of oxygen from the iron by replacing carbon and coke with green hydrogen. SSAB then uses that iron to produce steel slabs for delivery."
2026 is date for them!
Forbes clean steel (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2021/08/19/how-sweden-delivered-the-worlds-first-fossil-fuel-free-steel/'sh=3137946e6b55)
The HYBRIT hydrogen storage is a big cave (https://www.hybritdevelopment.se/en/hybrit-milestone-reached-pilot-facility-for-hydrogen-storage-up-and-running/)! "pilot facility’s size is 100 cubic metres, and at a later stage it may be necessary to keep 100,000 to 120,000 cubic metres of pressurised hydrogen gas in a full scale storage. This means that we can store up to 100 GWh of electricity in the form of hydrogen gas, which is enough to supply a full-size sponge iron factory for about three to four days."

This article has a "The IEA forecasts that steel production globally will grow by a third through to 2050"

It is very clear lots of steel will be required, Who makes it and how effectively its transition from C02 intensive to C02 free will see dramatic shifts in world economies. It is a steel revolution which is clearly in all our faces right now.

The US/EU tax/tariffs/carbon equalization plans are just one huge incentive. I wonder if our government is bright enough to take the massive clear opportunity to value add in our own economy?

While on the topic of green washing I also read again the usual green washing about inconsistent wind and solar power savoir being batteries. (I like battery for what they can do) A Grid scale lithium/graphite battery for the current EU issues might be bigger than France- Promises with out any possibility of being achieved are the worst Green washing. News papers... publishing impossible dreams are dangerous.

Even HYBRIT is a bit odd. Its pilot storage of 100 M3 - PV1 26,000 M3 H2 Neo carrier is scaling up to 120,000m3 H2max! (https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/ASX/asx-research/1.0/file/2924-02611211-6A1127833?access_token=83ff96335c2d45a094df02a206a 39ff4) HYBRIT could store a rather HUGE % more clearly than it pilot cavern storage with just one Ship from us!

Scale is everything! Using it is the key. Giving it to others to use and exploit has been an Australian error for a long time!

Hellonwheels

13th December 2022, 12:46 PM

If the process is genuinely scalable as they suggest, then there may be hope for the world yet. I would suggest a water powered vehicle in the outback would not be a viable option.

I’d reckon it would be better than an electric vehicle in the outback…🤣

ChookD2

13th December 2022, 09:54 PM

I’d reckon it would be better than an electric vehicle in the outback…🤣

Far more solar energy available than water. Not sure on charging times though. [biggrin]

Although atm there are some places with plenty of water.[tonguewink]

Hellonwheels

14th December 2022, 07:50 AM

Far more solar energy available than water. Not sure on charging times though. [biggrin]

Although atm there are some places with plenty of water.[tonguewink]

Mate, spend some time in the desert as I have. It’s often very overcast and extremely cold. Neither are conducive to solar batteries. A hundred litre tank of water and a capture of your exhaust on a hydrogen powered internal combustion engine, would give me a lot more confidence…should fossil fuels become unobtainable. I’m not sure you will ever see a recharging station at Rabbit Flats!

ChookD2

14th December 2022, 10:21 PM

Jeez, no need to get wrapped around the axles about it. [bighmmm] Just making conversation, offering an opinion, and like 99% here, I'm no expert.

NavyDiver

15th December 2022, 04:31 PM

I’d reckon it would be better than an electric vehicle in the outback…🤣

At lunch with a very cool sparky today. A 5kWh solar mat he is adding to a proposal for very remote emergency power for remote hand carry in was interesting in places with out roads was interesting. 720 electrical, Victron and .....?

Battery tech needs a lot of improvement in my book. some is happening here and japan which is nifty perhaps
Solid state battery breakthrough could slash EV costs and recharging time (https://thedriven.io/2022/12/13/solid-state-battery-breakthrough-could-slash-ev-costs-and-recharging-time/)

All options are worth considering. The winner will be the one that suits you[thumbsupbig] I am more than keen on Hydrogen yet happy to consider the options.

Hellonwheels

21st December 2022, 08:42 AM

At lunch with a very cool sparky today. A 5kWh solar mat he is adding to a proposal for very remote emergency power for remote hand carry in was interesting in places with out roads was interesting. 720 electrical, Victron and .....?

Battery tech needs a lot of improvement in my book. some is happening here and japan which is nifty perhaps
Solid state battery breakthrough could slash EV costs and recharging time (https://thedriven.io/2022/12/13/solid-state-battery-breakthrough-could-slash-ev-costs-and-recharging-time/)

All options are worth considering. The winner will be the one that suits you[thumbsupbig] I am more than keen on Hydrogen yet happy to consider the options.

Call me a dinosaur, but I’m a fan of the explosive infernal combustion engine….driving a silent computer in the desert doesn’t fill me with any joy.

NavyDiver

21st December 2022, 10:21 AM

Call me a dinosaur, but I’m a fan of the explosive infernal combustion engine….driving a silent computer in the desert doesn’t fill me with any joy.

Your not dinosaur.
I Loved the sound on my C.B.R. hitting red line in each gear[biggrin] Not the sound of that bike and I hitting/killing the car that didn't give way [bigrolf] I also enjoy the music, I can hear much better at levels that preserve my hearing in my quiet one over my Landrover. The automatice speed variable volume control on many cars now may suggest this is a well known issue[bigrolf]

Hunting big BANG is ok with me as well. A Bow is almost silent and my mates who do that seldom return the the gun powered sticks[bigwhistle] I am not good enough sadly.

Some hydrogen use is not so quiet of course "Hydrogen -- a light and extremely powerful rocket propellant NASA (https://www.google.com/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwir9bm7tYn8AhVBzzgGHX4uDekQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nasa.gov%2Ftopics%2Ftechnolo gy%2Fhydrogen%2Fhydrogen_fuel_of_choice.html&usg=AOvVaw0qUxEpFIe_fziooaIHuuqV)"

That use will satisfy most of our explosive speed needs[biggrin] Of interest is plans to make hydrogen for rocket fuel and Oxygen on Mars Researchers Develop Hydrogen and Oxygen Harvesting System for Use on Mars | Sci.News (https://www.sci.news/space/hydrogen-oxygen-harvesting-mars-09109.html)
Got to love science[thumbsupbig] Clearly distances are relative of course. To Mars and back is a long way. Around Australia a few times on land would do it for me! I have done the wet outside a few times [biggrin]

We are seeing change of course. Time frame is the real questions.

Have a great day

NavyDiver

21st December 2022, 12:49 PM

AFR 20/12/22
An Australian-developed technology to convert ammonia into green hydrogen is being trialled in the United Kingdom, with hopes the Fortescue Future Industries-backed method will help turbocharge the uptake of hydrogen as a clean energy source, especially for fuel cells.

While Andrew Forrest’s FFI signed a $20 million partnership with CSIRO in 2018 to develop the ammonia cracking prototype, Siemens Energy has announced a $6.5 million trial of the new Metal Membrane Technology (MMT) in Newcastle in the UK.

AFR is a month old or older perhaps? I missed it

Siemens Energy, FFI and GeoPura developing prototype ammonia cracker to produce hydrogen - Green Car Congress (https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/11/20221125-siemens.html)
"A Siemens Energy-led consortium has begun work in Newcastle, UK on a new £3.5 million (US$4.24 million) ammonia cracker prototype designed to produce green hydrogen at industrial scale. The prototype will use ammonia to deliver 200kg of hydrogen a day—enough to power around 5-10 hydrogen fuel cell-electric buses.The ammonia cracker system will provide the potential to produce green hydrogen at scale, wherever and whenever it is needed. The system will be designed to deliver high-purity hydrogen, suitable for PEM fuel cell use, using FFI’s Metal Membrane Technology (MMT) purification process. The MMT process developed by FFI and Australia’s national science agency, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO) (earlier post, earlier post) is key to producing high-purity hydrogen from the ammonia cracking process. It selectively filters the hydrogen while blocking other gases, allowing it to be used as a fuel and converted as needed, at the time of re-fueling."

" The UK Government estimates that hydrogen could make up to one third of the UK’s energy mix by 2050 but there are challenges with hydrogen storage and transport that need to be addressed to make this viable. The ammonia cracker prototype aims to help tackle these challenges.

Siemens Energy and FFI are providing engineering expertise and innovative technical solutions. GeoPura will provide onsite management, and as the off-taker will be taking the hydrogen product from the prototype ammonia cracker system for use in their fuel cell power generation technology. "

That Siemens in now doing some of the testing of this is great. Hazer plants may have a lot of hydrogen to shift. PV1 Hydrogen carriers new yet to be built ships and The metal membrane technology process cracking Ammonia is according to the CSIRO "in its final phase of Development (https://research.csiro.au/hyresource/ammonia-to-hydrogen-metal-membrane-separation-technology/)"

Perfect timing for a business about be producing 1000 tonnes per annum from 2023

The cost for the metal membrane technology testing by CSIRO, Siemens , BOC, Toyota and Hyundai looks incredibly cheap! If the plant running costs cracking Ammonia to Hydrogen are efficient the options it provides are very welcome.

CSIRO metal membrane technology reconverts ammonia to hydrogen in a two-stage process:

firstly, a ruthenium catalyst cracks ammonia into its constituent elements, nitrogen and hydrogen.
secondly, a vanadium-based metal membrane separates hydrogen from the other elements.

Note1 "Ruthenium is one of the rarest metals on Earth."
Note2 "Vanadium is the fifth most abundant transition metal in the earth's crust, often found with titanium and iron in their ores, and significant concentrations are found in certain coal and oil deposits, such as crude and shale oils."

Have a great day

350RRC

26th December 2022, 09:50 PM

Bit surprised the Oz research that H and O separation by electrolysis can be increased 14 fold by using HF sound waves hasn't been mentioned,,,,,,,,,,,,,, by anyone in this thread.

Was on RN about 10 days ago.

DL

Tins

26th December 2022, 09:53 PM

PhilipA

27th December 2022, 08:08 AM

Let me know when it reaches $2 per litre equivalent at a retail outlet near me. Oh with 55cents per litre tax on it and GST.
Regards PhilipA

p38arover

28th December 2022, 01:14 PM

A different view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlOCS95Jvjc

PhilipA

31st December 2022, 08:48 PM

NavyDiver

2nd January 2023, 08:05 PM

Below is a very interesting video on the production of Toyota Mirai.
(4) Toyota Fuel Cell PRODUCTION 🇯🇵 HYDROGEN Car Factory (Japan) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpmaNakvQRM)
Usual sort of factory with typical Toyota attention to detail ( not present when they designed air filters sarc.)
I have a few questions
1 is there any boot space at all?
2 What happens to "boil off hydrogen? ( BMW prohibits parking in a garage in case it vents off and finds an ignition source)

The front unit looks very very complex. Hope never to hit anything.
How much does it weigh?
How much does it cost to produce? I have been in many car plants and have never seen such a leisurely pace of production.

Regards PhilipA

Boil off is a issue in Natural gas ships as it is/will be with hydrogen ships Philip The nice company I have a few shares in suggests rather than venting and burning as happens in LNG and some gasses, using it to fuel the ships is a better solution?
Mass production is clearly cheaper [thumbsupbig]

Cannot help you with boot space. That's a bit Changeable[bigrolf]

The Mirai fuel cell is just one of many of course. I would love the mass prodution to start ASAP. The grumbles about the fumes by the ski. Ski tubes needs a option to allow the retirement of my boat motor ASAP. I could grumble about the cost of fuel but the Disco towing the boat cost me a lot more[bigwhistle]

NavyDiver

4th January 2023, 08:46 AM

160kph Chinese train and over 1000km for "On Thursday, 15 September 2022, the Alstom Coradia iLint, the world's first hydrogen train successfully traveled 1,175 km without refueling its hydrogen tank. (https://www.alstom.com/alstom-coradia-ilint-distance-run) "

Some days it feels its getting closer [thumbsupbig]

RANDLOVER

20th January 2023, 08:16 PM

Horizon Educational -STEAM education on renewable energy via middle & high school competitions, science kits and curriculums. 2023 Dakar Rally – Rally Truck Ran on Hydrogen Power Let's engineer our future! (https://www.horizoneducational.com/2023-dakar-rally-rally-truck-ran-on-hydrogen-power/t1410)

A truck did most the Dakar on a 50/50 hydrogen/diesel blend, IIRC it didn't finish not as it blew up but due to a roll over.

Also in the race were a few green cars. Sebastien Loeb's Prodrive Hunter is the 1st alternative fuel car to win a stage.

Eco wars: the battle to be Dakar's first 'green' winner - Motor Sport Magazine (https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/rally/eco-wars-the-battle-to-be-dakars-first-green-winner?v=6cc98ba2045f)

101RRS

20th January 2023, 09:30 PM

A truck did most the Dakar on a 50/50 hydrogen/diesel blend, IIRC it didn't finish not as it blew up but due to a roll over.

Not a lot different to LPG fumigation for diesels as was popular about 10 years ago.

RANDLOVER

20th January 2023, 10:11 PM

Not a lot different to LPG fumigation for diesels as was popular about 10 years ago.

Interestingly they say they can go to 90% Hydrogen, which isn't doable with LPG and diesel, obviously 100% in petrols is.

NavyDiver

1st February 2023, 09:44 AM

$$$$ "Australia, Germany collaborate on green hydrogen with A$110 million in funding for four projects" Link (https://www.pv-tech.org/australia-germany-collaborate-on-green-hydrogen-with-a110-million-in-funding-for-four-projects/)

The bump in some share prices was clear. _ NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE!

German " it targets to import 10 million tonnes by 2030 (https://www.pv-tech.org/green-hydrogen-infrastructure-legislation-needed-to-build-on-repowereu-plan/)."

Shipping winner +++ for me[bigwhistle] _ NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE!

I did some numbers of how much energy is used /needed based on another countries very good work on this.

I still think German numbers have a huge shortfall. Its helpful of course.

Don 130

18th February 2023, 07:38 AM

The race to make diesel engines run on hydrogen
Published
20 hours ago

Share
Related Topics
Climate change
Coal Mine in South Kalimantan - Indonesia
IMAGE SOURCE, DOMINIK VANYI
Image caption,
Converting mining industry vehicles to hydrogen could mean big savings in CO2 emissions
By Phil Mercer
BBC News, Sydney
It's a new hydrogen-diesel hybrid engine affectionately known as "baby number two" that could help to decarbonise some of Australia's heaviest industries.
The test rig is large - it has its own room adjoining a lab and looks at first glance like many other large motors, but beneath its metallic skin could lie game-changing technology.
Engineers at the University of New South Wales (UNSW) say they have successfully modified a conventional diesel engine to use a mix of hydrogen and a small amount of diesel, claiming their patented technology has cut carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions by more than 85%.
It's the work of Prof Shawn Kook and his team at the university's School of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering.
ADVERTISEMENT

"The interest in converting an existing diesel engine into a clean-burning hydrogen engine is extremely high," Prof Kook tells the BBC at his laboratory in Sydney. Enquiries have come from Germany, South Africa, Brazil, Japan and China.
"We mount the hydrogen direct injection system into existing diesel engines, which can be applied to any conventional engine," he adds.
What makes their system unique, according to Prof Kook, is the way it mixes the hydrogen and diesel and then introduces it to the engine cylinder for combustion.
Professor Shawn Kook, University of New South Wales
Image caption,
Prof Kook says there is an "extremely high" level of interest in making diesel engines run on hydrogen
Unlike fossil fuels, hydrogen does not produce CO2 when burnt, so it has long been seen as a greener fuel source.
About 90% of fuel in the UNSW hybrid diesel engine is hydrogen but it must be applied in a carefully calibrated way.
If the hydrogen is not introduced into the fuel mix at the right moment "it will create something that is explosive that will burn out the whole system," Prof Kook explains.
He says that studies have shown that controlling the mixture of hydrogen and air inside the cylinder of the engine can help negate harmful nitrogen oxide emissions, which have been an obstacle to the commercialisation of hydrogen motors.
The Sydney research team believes that any diesel trucks and power equipment in the mining, transportation and agriculture sectors could be retrofitted with the new hybrid system in just a couple of months.
Prof Kook doubts the hybrid would be of much interest in the car industry though, where electric and hybrid vehicles are already advanced and replacing diesel cars.
However, he says Australia's multibillion-dollar mining industry needs a solution for all its diesel-powered equipment as soon as possible.
The diesel engine converted to run on hydrogen at the University of New South Wales
Image caption,
It's an ordinary diesel engine but runs on 90% hydrogen
"We have so many established diesel-powered generators, mega-trucks and underground machines. How do we decarbonise all those existing diesel engines? One way is to shut down everything and get new technology in, which will take decades," he says.
The plan is for the hybrid to run off a hydrogen-diesel mix or, in the absence of hydrogen, it can revert to diesel only.
Prof Kook hopes his new generation engine will become a commercial product within two years.
Tim Buckley, the director at Climate Energy Finance, a public interest think-tank in Sydney, believes the technology has the potential to "transform the Australian mining industry dramatically".
"There's always an element of scepticism in the work I do to evaluate what is hype and hope as opposed to reality. Having said that, this University of New South Wales breakthrough does appear to be pretty material. If they can pull it off it is a huge opportunity," he says.
Presentational grey line
More technology of business:
'It had just vanished' - the shock when tech fails
The cargo hauling aircraft with no pilots on board
Skilled tech workers snapped up despite downturn
Tropical vineyards put India on the wine map
Second-hand tech booms as shoppers look for bargains
Presentational grey line
The Australian team is in a global race to develop hybrid diesel-hydrogen engines. Engineers in other countries are working on their concepts and designs but the Sydney team believes it has an edge.
"I think we have a breakthrough compared to most other research groups in the world where we can actually achieve a higher percentage using hydrogen over diesel," explains Xinyu Liu, a UNSW PhD student from China.
"Emission-wise, CO2-wise we can achieve a higher reduction than the other methods. The concept has been proven using the previous small-scale engine. We are trying to implement this idea into a larger scale, which is more [applicable] to industry."
Xinyu Liu, PhD student (left) and Professor Shawn Kook, University of New South Wales
Image caption,
PhD student Xinyu Liu (left) says the UNSW team's research is ahead of other diesel-hydrogen projects
The bigger version, or the UNSW's "baby number two", has twice the volume of the original prototype and has the potential for a "massive reduction in CO2" emissions, according to Prof Kook.
The vision is laid out in a paper published in the International Journal of Hydrogen Energy.
Much of the invention's impact on the environment will depend on where the hydrogen comes from.
While small amounts of hydrogen are being extracted directly from the ground, most hydrogen is manufactured, in a process that emits CO2.
Green hydrogen, produced by using electricity from renewable power to split water into hydrogen and oxygen molecules using an electrolyser, is seen as the answer. But the technology and the electricity needed is costly, so at the moment only a small amount of hydrogen is produced this way.
But the costs are likely to come down and with abundant sunshine and wind, Australia has a lot of potential to produce renewable electricity, which could one day be used to make more green hydrogen.
The Climate Council, an independent organisation, believes that sustainable hydrogen gives Australia the chance to end its reliance on fossil fuels.
"Australia is one of the world's largest coal exporters and the largest liquefied gas exporter," the Council wrote in a 2021 briefing. "Both are polluting fossil fuels, and Australia is paying a high cost for that with more severe and frequent extreme weather events like bushfires, heatwaves, and drought."
Wind Turbines at Capital Wind Farm, the largest wind farm in New South Wales, 30 kilometres north east of Canberra
IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Australia has great potential for renewable electricity, which could be used to make green hydrogen
For now, the UNSW project remains in the nursery in the laboratory. Academic endeavour needs the financial heft of outside investment and the hands-on input and knowledge of a mining company or engine manufacturer.
"Our vision is to impact Australian mining, agriculture and construction industries first and then move out to the rest of the world to make a bigger impact," says Prof Kook.
Australia has some of the world's biggest resources companies and they have all committed to aggressive decarbonisation targets. Technology is the key.
"The idea of blending hydrogen and diesel together in an existing engine is something of a Holy Grail for decarbonising heavy industry and mining," adds Tim Buckley.
He has this existential question for the engineers at UNSW: "Can they actually deploy it in a commercial setting and replicate it outside the university?"

Don