Remote recovery; am I paranoid?

[GregMilner]

Should I distrust LR's Roadside Assistance program?

We're about to head north to the Kimberley, GRR and the Munja Track to Walcott Inlet. My D4's 3-year warranty expires on July 25, which is fine as we'll be home by then, but..

In spite of my previous excellent experience with LR Roadside Assist (they got my L322 and camper trailer out when a rear shockie expired on the Mitchell Falls track) I note with some concern the conditions attached in the PDS as follows:

To be eligible for Land Rover Roadside, your vehicle must have been sold and distributed by Land Rover Australia andmust be in a well maintained and sound mechanical and roadworthy condition. (it is.) The provision of benefits and services under Land Rover Roadside is subject to:
 Resources available in the area. (There won't be any resources available, except a tilt-tray truck called in from Kununurra or Broome, both a very long haul.)
 No vehicle modifications being made from the manufacturer’s factory specifications. (I have a long range tank fitted. Does that count?)
 Any circumstances beyond our control (including by not limited to extraordinary delays caused by extremeweather conditions such as snowfall and flooding)
 Circumstances reasonably considered to be a force majeure event
 Location being trafficable by a two-wheel-drive recovery vehicle. (Certainly won't be. The Gibb and certainly the Munja Track are 4WD only.)
 Severe traffic congestion (That's not going to be a problem.)
 Restricted Access Area requirements. (The Munja Track is a private track on Mt Elizabeth Station, accessible by paying a $100 gate fee.)

All of which begs the question, in the event of an electrical or mechanical breakdown rendering the car inoperable (eg another blown shock) would the above provisions give LR the perfect opportunity to say "sorry bud, you're on your own."?

Does anybody have any suggestions as to any roadside assist program that DOES give one more comfort?

Any relevant input appreciated.

[PeterJ]

Hi Greg, here is another thread with similar info that you are asking about. here (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/265038-outback-roadside-assist.html)
I asked the insurer a while ago about the caravan clause, they do not recover the van I am towing or anything else being towed but have decided to go with the LR Assist anyway, from the research I did I could not find anything that covered recovery if you are out in the middle of no where.

I will watch this with interest

Peter

[GregMilner]

Thanks Peter, I looked for a thread like that but couldn't find one.
I haven't yet seen anything better than LR assist, so will probably stay with that unless something better pops up, considering it's part of warranty anyway.

[Konradical]

I would suggest calling the customer care number and asking the question.

I asked the question about getting stuck on the CSR and they pretty much said they would do the best they could to get me or keep me going. Also quoted the PDS, but were reassuring about not being left to my own devices.

I rang LR assist to give them a heads up about the second failure of the EPB via sat phone in Kunawartrji (spelling?) and they were happy enough to recover it from there, but also happy enough for us to complete the trip if it didn't hinder us. Obviously the recorded call was there out clause if I tried to make a thing of an incident from a failed EPB.

Also a fair chunk of the GRR is accessible with a 2wd vehicle. Lots of trucks on it.

[DiscoMick]

I think you're okay. Do you have motoring association top cover as well?

[GregMilner]

I would suggest calling the customer care number and asking the question.

I asked the question about getting stuck on the CSR and they pretty much said they would do the best they could to get me or keep me going. Also quoted the PDS, but were reassuring about not being left to my own devices.

I rang LR assist to give them a heads up about the second failure of the EPB via sat phone in Kunawartrji (spelling?) and they were happy enough to recover it from there, but also happy enough for us to complete the trip if it didn't hinder us. Obviously the recorded call was there out clause if I tried to make a thing of an incident from a failed EPB.

Also a fair chunk of the GRR is accessible with a 2wd vehicle. Lots of trucks on it.

Thanks Konrad, yeah I'm not worried about the GRR itself, been up and down that several times. It's the gnarly Munja Track that'd be an issue if the car broke down badly.

[GregMilner]

I think you're okay. Do you have motoring association top cover as well?

No we don't Mick, and RACWA cover isn't worth having anyway. They'll cover you for only a 300km round trip with a tow-truck, that's all. The only time we've had to be recovered from the Kimberley (in my 2012 L322) was a 4,000km round trip, which LR Assist paid for, plus charter flights, accommodation etc. I worked out it cost them about $30,000 all up.
But I don't really want to count on them doing that twice:-)

[justinc]

Greg, after watching a couple of those vids , namely some of the rocky jump up action, i'd be taking a rental 78 series troopy in there...😁. Not your car, not your damage.....

[roverrescue]

It was 2016 when I did the Munja in a hire lowlux
With a mate in his rodeo/Bt50/ranger chicks Ute thing.

We had three spare tyres (used em all) and bent the chassis on the chicks Ute
(Coming down a rock step)

It is one long rocky mofo of a track and in The last week of October quite hot and dry!

In any case my ramblings aside, the only recovery you will have on that track is what you can muster yourself. It would take a few days but you could dead drag a vehicle out with some winching and swearing. But there is no recovery service that can get through those rock gardens. Even if a service like the Simpson Deaert recovery vehicle existed I doubt it would have much fun getting to you on that track!

I suggest you roll the dice - go and just know if Mr Bad comes to visit you’ll be having an adventure dragging a carcass of a vehicle out to the station.

Take spare tyres and a way to bush repair gashed sidewalls. Don’t rush - just acknowledge it’s going to take 12 hours to get to Walcott.

Have fun and I’m happy to give any specific details / Barra fishing tips if you want

Steve

[justinc]

Steve it certainly screams locked defender and 12 ply tyres to me....😬😁

[ATH]

Greg, after watching a couple of those vids , namely some of the rocky jump up action, i'd be taking a rental 78 series troopy in there...��. Not your car, not your damage.....
If you do that and damage the rental make sure there's heaps of money to cover what they charge for anything they can attribute to you. They show no mercy hire car companies.
AlanH.

[rocket rod]

I did the Munja to Backstein Bush camp (wonderful spot, which is about half way) a couple of years ago with GOE tag along. We had 8 cars and two trailers and we all got through unscathed. Yes there a few jump ups that can test you but if you take it slowly and carefully consider your line (eg spotter required) then you'll find it a fun trip that shouldn't cause many problems. Having a suspension system you can lift up at will is a great asset. Use it. The track itself is easy when dry (black soil country). River crossing were low as it was dry but if there is rain, consider delaying. Yes, take spare tyres and a GAP tool but have fun on the two days it will take you to get to Walcott.

As far a track side assist goes, you might as well send up smoke signals. I doubt if anyone will come.

[SeanC]

With club 4x4 you can pay an extra premium to get $30000 off-road recovery cover. But you need to pay and then be reimbursed which would be a problem most. I know I don’t have a spare 30 grand lying around.

[GregMilner]

If you do that and damage the rental make sure there's heaps of money to cover what they charge for anything they can attribute to you. They show no mercy hire car companies.
AlanH.

Oh, Ye of little faith Alan...

[GregMilner]

I did the Munja to Backstein Bush camp (wonderful spot, which is about half way) a couple of years ago with GOE tag along. We had 8 cars and two trailers and we all got through unscathed. Yes there a few jump ups that can test you but if you take it slowly and carefully consider your line (eg spotter required) then you'll find it a fun trip that shouldn't cause many problems. Having a suspension system you can lift up at will is a great asset. Use it. The track itself is easy when dry (black soil country). River crossing were low as it was dry but if there is rain, consider delaying. Yes, take spare tyres and a GAP tool but have fun on the two days it will take you to get to Walcott.

As far a track side assist goes, you might as well send up smoke signals. I doubt if anyone will come.

Rod I’m not worried really, there’ll be four vehicles and a couple of trailers, it’s only in case of catastrophic vehicle failure. I’ve got a GAP tool and plenty of spare tyres etc...tools, handy people, so taking it easy we’ll be 99% covered...

[rocket rod]

Rod I’m not worried really, there’ll be four vehicles and a couple of trailers, it’s only in case of catastrophic vehicle failure. I’ve got a GAP tool and plenty of spare tyres etc...tools, handy people, so taking it easy we’ll be 99% covered...

Have fun. It'll be a corker! Wish I was going.

[Redback]

I'm telling you now LR don't do remote recoveries of any kind, they just pass it on to the local recovery mob, you're better off with NRMA or RACV/Q premium care and a credit card.

Now having said that, worrying about this is pointless just go out there and enjoy your trip, worry about when it happens if it happens at all, besides you have backup travelling with you we didn't we did most of it alone towing a trailer.

Oh yeah the GRR is not a 4WD track, we saw heaps of 2WD vehicles on the Gibb when we were there in 2017, we did 23,000ks all up for our Kimberley trip, that included GOOGS Track, great central road, The Gunbarrel(the entire length), CSR to Georgia Bore, Tallawanna Track, Cape Leveque, the GRR, Mitchel Falls Rd, Binns Track, Mt Dare, Dalhousie and the Oodnadatta track to Lindhurst.

My 2 Cents.

You'll be fine, they're a tough car.

[Zeros]

All remote area tracks in northern WA require artful and experienced driving at times, depending on the conditions at the time. Even if someone drove to Walcott last year it could all be different when you go.

Those big rocky jump-ups require cautious slow, low range. Take it easy and you should be fine. Black soil becomes impassable very quickly if it rains. For all of the above, if in doubt stop for a cuppa and assess. Walk it. Take your time. Don’t try to do it in a hurry.

Worst case scenario 1: turn back and enjoy where you are or go another way. Worst case scenario 2: sounds like you’re travelling with others, any break down you’ll nut out the best plan and I’m sure you’re taking a sat phone or Epirb.

As mentioned above Club 4x4 insurance offers remote area recovery with insurance policy. You can upgrade it too with options. This combined with RAC ultimate / or LR assist is best bet I reckon.

Enjoy!

[trout1105]

Don't overthink it, A lot of lesser 4wd's than a 3 year old D4 make it up and back that on that track without a problem.
Enjoy the drive and don't rush it [thumbsupbig]

[roverrescue]

Silly low profile tyres will be your biggest risk
Either take lots of spares or run the toughest rubber you can find

I do know that if we were in my 130 instead of the silly chicks utes on 17s
We wouldn’t have had the problems we had with bent chassis and busted up tyres.
I admit we were not going as slow as some would as we wanted to get to the fish
We also ran a Polaris SXS in - now that was the way to do it
Buzzed along the tracks wind in your hair
The torrential rain made things a little soggy but still damn good fun and way easier to navigate the rock gardens!

I still say go for it but just take it easy

Are you going to take a boat in? It’s a tricky place to fish both from shore or boat
Happy to give some hints if you want the

S

[Barraman]

I think you've answered most of your questions. I would not rely on LR Assist to recover you.

[GregMilner]

Silly low profile tyres will be your biggest risk
Either take lots of spares or run the toughest rubber you can find

I do know that if we were in my 130 instead of the silly chicks utes on 17s
We wouldn’t have had the problems we had with bent chassis and busted up tyres.
I admit we were not going as slow as some would as we wanted to get to the fish
We also ran a Polaris SXS in - now that was the way to do it
Buzzed along the tracks wind in your hair
The torrential rain made things a little soggy but still damn good fun and way easier to navigate the rock gardens!

I still say go for it but just take it easy

Are you going to take a boat in? It’s a tricky place to fish both from shore or boat
Happy to give some hints if you want the

S

I'm not worried about tyres, I run Maxxis Bravo 980s with two spares. It's more a case of what to do in the unlikely event of a non-fixable electrical or mechanical failure, although we are travelling in convoy so it wouldn't be a disaster.
We aren't even sure if we can get down as far as Walcott Inlet at this stage, since we're going very early in the season and the track down to the inlet from Bachsten may not even be navigable until they've had time to put the tractor through it.

[Zeros]

Unfortunately unforeseen electrical problems are a potential affliction common to all late model 4x4’s. No matter what the brand.

If you prepare, know your vehicle and drive sensibly the likelihood of mechanical faults can be largely mitigated.

A pre-98 Defender or Landcruiser is the best for simplicity out bush. But then it would also need to have had many key mechanical components overhauled or upgraded too.

We can’t all be mechanics, but we can all learn the basics. IME it’s usually a balance of this along with preparation, experience, slowing down and travelling light that will see avoiding most issues. Sounds simple, but like anything it does take time to get good at it. Also don’t underestimate the willingness of people in the bush to help as much as they can. It’s the code. It at the same time it relays on you to help if needed too.

The enemy of all remote travel is tight timelines inflexibility and a lack of true community spirit.

Relying solely on any roadside assist in remote areas is for millionaires who have a choooer on standby.

[Chaosphoto]

Does anybody have any suggestions as to any roadside assist program that DOES give one more comfort?

Any relevant input appreciated.

Have a look at Club 4x4 vehicle insurance. Make sure you read the water crossing notes though.

[Redback]

Greg we took spares that were potentially things on the D4 that are known items susceptible to failure and reasonably easy to replace, things like wheel speed sensors, height sensors, MAF and MAP sensor, spare Air and Pollen filters and plenty of good quality tools, make sure your auxiliary battery is in good condition, we had to replace the MAF, which we did and purchased another to replace it, while away we had the car serviced and we had them check it also as we had another 10,000ks to go still.

Mechanically the D4 is a pretty tough vehicle and as long as the car has been serviced and checked for any potential failures, if anything is borderline, as in if you get the comment "yeah it's not too bad it should be OK" change it.

Carrying big items like shocks, hubs and the like is just adding weight to an already heavy car, one thing you should add if you don't already have one is a second jack, something that has a low profile to get under the car if you get a flat and the car happens to drops to the bump stops, it saved us when it happen to us.

So all up we had two failures, the MAF on the car replaced that in Alice Springs by the LR Dealer reason being we had the car checked to make sure it wasn't something else and the spring hanger bushes on the camper, repaired in Darwin and car serviced at the same time while we went sight seeing.

Anyway have a great trip and don't stress too much, the D4 is a great vehicle and a very tough tourer, oh I forgot the rear wheel arch trim vibrated off on the Mitchell Falls Road, the worst corrugations we struck on the trip it was worth it though as King Edward camp is brilliant, do yourself a favour go to Mitchell Falls, camp at King Edward leave the trailer (if you have one) at King Edward camp and drive out there, there's a caretaker at King Edward Camp so it will be safe.

Enjoy,

Baz

[Zeros]

Speaking of carrying spare sensors etc...

It would be brilliant if someone with the knowledge is able post up a definitive list of sensors / part #’s, with photos of where they are on the vehicle?

...for all of us late model Disco / Defender owners & amateur mechanics.

The contemporary version of carrying the basics, in addition to a fan belt and radiator hoses...

[GregMilner]

Greg we took spares that were potentially things on the D4 that are known items susceptible to failure and reasonably easy to replace, things like wheel speed sensors, height sensors, MAF and MAP sensor, spare Air and Pollen filters and plenty of good quality tools, make sure your auxiliary battery is in good condition, we had to replace the MAF, which we did and purchased another to replace it, while away we had the car serviced and we had them check it also as we had another 10,000ks to go still.

Mechanically the D4 is a pretty tough vehicle and as long as the car has been serviced and checked for any potential failures, if anything is borderline, as in if you get the comment "yeah it's not too bad it should be OK" change it.

Carrying big items like shocks, hubs and the like is just adding weight to an already heavy car, one thing you should add if you don't already have one is a second jack, something that has a low profile to get under the car if you get a flat and the car happens to drops to the bump stops, it saved us when it happen to us.

So all up we had two failures, the MAF on the car replaced that in Alice Springs by the LR Dealer reason being we had the car checked to make sure it wasn't something else and the spring hanger bushes on the camper, repaired in Darwin and car serviced at the same time while we went sight seeing.

Anyway have a great trip and don't stress too much, the D4 is a great vehicle and a very tough tourer, oh I forgot the rear wheel arch trim vibrated off on the Mitchell Falls Road, the worst corrugations we struck on the trip it was worth it though as King Edward camp is brilliant, do yourself a favour go to Mitchell Falls, camp at King Edward leave the trailer (if you have one) at King Edward camp and drive out there, there's a caretaker at King Edward Camp so it will be safe.

Enjoy,

Baz

Thanks Baz, I'll certainly get some sensor cleaner before we go, although I'm wondering if it's overkill to bother shelling out for a spare MAF sensor just for a 4 week trip. I have a second jack although it's a bottle jack so might require some digging to get that under the chassis:-)
We've camped at King Edward River and driven up to Mitchell Falls, flown over it in a chopper etc on previous trips so won't be bothering on this one.

[DiscoMick]

There's a saying about paranoia:
"Just because you're not being followed doesn't mean you shouldn't be paranoid."
Hope that helps. [smilebigeye]

[GregMilner]

Speaking of carrying spare sensors etc...

It would be brilliant if someone with the knowledge is able post up a definitive list of sensors / part #’s, with photos of where they are on the vehicle?

...for all of us late model Disco / Defender owners & amateur mechanics.

The contemporary version of carrying the basics, in addition to a fan belt and radiator hoses...

These are the part numbers:

Front Wheel Speed Sensor - LR013783
Rear Wheel Speed Sensor - SSB500102
Suspension Height Sensor (front) - LR023646
Suspension Height Sensor (rear) - LR023648
Brake Light Switch - XKB500110
Rear Suspension Link Rod Bolt (5 off) - RYG501580
Air Filter - PHE000112

[Redback]

These are the part numbers:

Front Wheel Speed Sensor - LR013783
Rear Wheel Speed Sensor - SSB500102
Suspension Height Sensor (front) - LR023646
Suspension Height Sensor (rear) - LR023648
Brake Light Switch - XKB500110
Rear Suspension Link Rod Bolt (5 off) - RYG501580
Air Filter - PHE000112


All these are in the car at all times, including MAF and a few other bits and pieces, only used the MAF so far on all our trips, on all our long trips we have 2 spare wheels and didn't that extra spare come in handy otherwise we would have been stranded on the Oodnadatta track, we used our last spare at Beresford Bore and managed to get to Copely for the night and then Hawker the next day to get replacements.

We have 17s and we still had to ring around, Hawker had what we needed which was lucky because Port Augusta would have been our next nearest, which was way out of our way.

[Zeros]

These are the part numbers:

Front Wheel Speed Sensor - LR013783
Rear Wheel Speed Sensor - SSB500102
Suspension Height Sensor (front) - LR023646
Suspension Height Sensor (rear) - LR023648
Brake Light Switch - XKB500110
Rear Suspension Link Rod Bolt (5 off) - RYG501580
Air Filter - PHE000112

Cheers, does someone have a list of Defender Puma 2.2 / 2.4 electrical spares / sensors?
MAF, air filter, intercooler intake, coolant temp, ABS, ...anything else?