6inch lift kit avail for D5! 35's Anyone?

[blackrangie]

Found out that this lift now supports Discovery 5's, this is a pretty big deal for discoveries in my opinion. The only issue would be in Australia getting it engineered.

"Our patented 6″ lift kit increases approach, departure, high center and decreased body drag. The standard kit utilizes the air ride system, keeping all of the travel modes of the range rover design & characteristics (entry, normal ride & off-road) at the touch of a button. The kits design keeps all of the Range Rovers suspension engineers design working angles. This a bolt on kit."

YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SdrrhrAvxeQ)

J Auston Fabrication | Range Rover Lift Kits (http://jaustonfab.com/range-rover-lift-kits/)

Works on:

Discovery 5 and all new RRV, RRS

Found some more pics, in vid it says he can do 4inch, maybe that would be engineerable in oz?

Thoughts?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190329/12554a011ef9b97a781823296f18fd0b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190329/8dc28f253e787e49578b8c48a39854ba.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190329/39cd6b3da7351c11cab748f1217d4316.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190329/d64230520174204e8afca6448ab52a34.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190329/a3c220af16b114b38e5dd6da914dab42.jpg

[stevo]

Will have to wait for the warranty to run out[bighmmm]

[blackrangie]

Will have to wait for the warranty to run out[bighmmm]Was thinkn bout that, you reckon they'd notice??

[stevo]

The short mechanics might notice, and would rule out most car parks I can get in at the moment unlike my D II.

[blackrangie]

haha, The short mechanics might notice, and would rule out most car parks I can get in at the moment unlike my D II.Drop airbags to bumpstops they will never know [emoji1787]

[Eevo]

imho: ugly

[blackrangie]

Speaking of warranty, has anyone ever had a LR warranty or roadside assist claim denied for something on the car unrelated or related to a modification on the car, because there was a mod on the car.

For example, non standard wheels or tyres, lift rods, bullbar, rear wheel carrier , LR tank.

You would think legally they would have to prove that mod caused failure in the same way insurance claim denials work (unengineered mod caused crash)?

[ozscott]

Speaking of warranty, has anyone ever had a LR warranty or roadside assist claim denied for something on the car unrelated or related to a modification on the car, because there was a mod on the car.

For example, non standard wheels or tyres, lift rods, bullbar, rear wheel carrier , LR tank.

You would think legally they would have to prove that mod caused failure in the same way insurance claim denials work (unengineered mod caused crash)?Insurers don't have to prove the mods caused the crash. Cheers

[blackrangie]

Insurers don't have to prove the mods caused the crash. CheersHey, cheers, In what scenerios?

[ozscott]

A whole raft of scenarios mate but a big lift especially on a independently suspended vehicle with anti sway control set up in factory to specific specs will be a big red flag/light to any insurer in Australia both at an underwriting level and claims handling level. I won't go into the legal niceties here but let's just say I have a fair bit of experience in the insurance law area over some decades and I wouldn't do to a d5 what these guys are doing (I would not lift it at all nor modify factory suspension heights on a D5) and happily expect to be covered for damage to my vehicle and any other vehicle in a collision.

Cheers

[trout1105]

Seriously if you have to alter the suspension that much to make a 4WD capable off road then you have obviously bought the wrong vehicle in the first place[bigwhistle]

[ozscott]

With IFS and IRS I would hate to see with these big lifts how often it breaks components and wears out bushes. I reckon it would be a dog in a number of ways.

Cheers

[Geedublya]

With IFS and IRS I would hate to see with these big lifts how often it breaks components and wears out bushes. I reckon it would be a dog in a number of ways.

Cheers

Seems like you don't really understand what they have done.

The only angles which are different are those from the transfer case to the diffs. The only extra load on CVs and driveshafts is from the large tyres.

[Geedublya]

Seriously if you have to alter the suspension that much to make a 4WD capable off road then you have obviously bought the wrong vehicle in the first place[bigwhistle]

"Our patented 6″ lift kit increases approach, departure, high center and decreased body drag. The standard kit utilizes the air ride system, keeping all of the travel modes of the range rover design & characteristics (entry, normal ride & off-road) at the touch of a button. The kits design keeps all of the Range Rovers suspension engineers design working angles. This a bolt on kit."

Did you look at the link and read the information or just look at the pictures?

[ozscott]

"Our patented 6″ lift kit increases approach, departure, high center and decreased body drag. The standard kit utilizes the air ride system, keeping all of the travel modes of the range rover design & characteristics (entry, normal ride & off-road) at the touch of a button. The kits design keeps all of the Range Rovers suspension engineers design working angles. This a bolt on kit."

Did you look at the link and read the information or just look at the pictures?I only look at pictures...

[ozscott]

"Our patented 6″ lift kit increases approach, departure, high center and decreased body drag. The standard kit utilizes the air ride system, keeping all of the travel modes of the range rover design & characteristics (entry, normal ride & off-road) at the touch of a button. The kits design keeps all of the Range Rovers suspension engineers design working angles. This a bolt on kit."

Did you look at the link and read the information or just look at the pictures?I couldn't be bothered reading the detail to be honest. Cause if I had a D5 I would want to be able to insure it. The linked vehicles are not in that category.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

Seriously if you have to alter the suspension that much to make a 4WD capable off road then you have obviously bought the wrong vehicle in the first place[bigwhistle]The suspension doesn't get altered at all really you're just making space for bigger tyres

[blackrangie]

I couldn't be bothered reading the detail to be honest. Cause if I had a D5 I would want to be able to insure it. The linked vehicles are not in that category.

CheersMate it was all there haha, it took me awhile to get my head around it too but it's actually a really amazing kit I can understand why he patented it.
If we can get it in a smaller size like a 2 inch or a 4 inch it is a much better option than using lift rods.

Keeps the suspension working stock as a rock

[blackrangie]

A whole raft of scenarios mate but a big lift especially on a independently suspended vehicle with anti sway control set up in factory to specific specs will be a big red flag/light to any insurer in Australia both at an underwriting level and claims handling level. I won't go into the legal niceties here but let's just say I have a fair bit of experience in the insurance law area over some decades and I wouldn't do to a d5 what these guys are doing (I would not lift it at all nor modify factory suspension heights on a D5) and happily expect to be covered for damage to my vehicle and any other vehicle in a collision.

CheersIf something is engineered for a start and you let your insurer know you are covered.

+ these four wheel drives would be able to go 200 km per hour on the freeway standard, so would be no problem at all to get engineered at 110 with say a 2 or 4 inch suspension drop and 35s with a good engineer.

My question in the first instance was rather has anyone ever had anything denied because of mods from Land Rover?

[ozscott]

If something is engineered for a start and you let your insurer know you are covered.

+ these four wheel drives would be able to go 200 km per hour on the freeway standard, so would be no problem at all to get engineered at 110 with say a 2 or 4 inch suspension drop and 35s with a good engineer.

My question in the first instance was rather has anyone ever had anything denied because of mods from Land Rover?Mate it is not about letting your insurer know it's about letting them know and them agreeing....Its a big ask with these modern vehicles. You would need to be very specific and ensure that tbe police schedule noted the detail for a start.

Cheers

[ozscott]

If something is engineered for a start and you let your insurer know you are covered.

+ these four wheel drives would be able to go 200 km per hour on the freeway standard, so would be no problem at all to get engineered at 110 with say a 2 or 4 inch suspension drop and 35s with a good engineer.

My question in the first instance was rather has anyone ever had anything denied because of mods from Land Rover?And yes I have been told by a major insurer that if I do more improvements on my d2 they would not insurer it any more....after 16 years with the same company with that vehicle and one small claim when a rock from the duals of a truck hit the rear quarter panel. Cheers

[blackrangie]

And yes I have been told by a major insurer that if I do more improvements on my d2 they would not insurer it any more....after 16 years with the same company with that vehicle and one small claim when a rock from the duals of a truck hit the rear quarter panel. CheersI have an extremly modified late Range Rover classic and it is fully insured with everything listed and engineered.
Change Insurer.

[ozscott]

I did 10 months ago. But your vehicle and mine are older vehicles with live axles and no anti sway roll over software for the brakes. I know motor insurers pretty well and they are very risk adverse. The D5 was engineered to utilize the brakes, braking each brake extremely quickly to help it under severe swerving etc. So that is set up with specific wheel sizes and weights and specific vehicle height. Go dicking around with either or both and the system is not able to do what it was designed to do. A lot of smart engineering and maths goes into these things. Can't see an engineer wanting to touch a 6 inch lift on a D5 and big wheels. Likewise insurers. And don't forget it's up to the insurer, engineering cert or not. Anyway let's see.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

I did 10 months ago. But your vehicle and mine are older vehicles with live axles and no anti sway roll over software for the brakes. I know motor insurers pretty well and they are very risk adverse. The D5 was engineered to utilize the brakes, braking each brake extremely quickly to help it under severe swerving etc. So that is set up with specific wheel sizes and weights and specific vehicle height. Go dicking around with either or both and the system is not able to do what it was designed to do. A lot of smart engineering and maths goes into these things. Can't see an engineer wanting to touch a 6 inch lift on a D5 and big wheels. Likewise insurers. And don't forget it's up to the insurer, engineering cert or not. Anyway let's see.

CheersNot saying 6 inch as above, however ol mate that built kit says drives like stock. Reasonable engineer will pass if it passes brake and swerve and components are safe plus engineered well.

In my experience insurers will accept most things, its them paying out you have to ensure by making sure full disclosure and your car is 100% legal.

[ozscott]

Mate it would be good to see engineers passing modern vehicles with lifts just doing the lane change check etc. Can see problems with it as I said. In any event that will not guarantee insurance. This is an area of concern to insurers. Anyway I have added what I can to assist anyone considering lifting a D5.Cheers

[blackrangie]

Cheers mate, getting back to original question, Speaking of warranty, has anyone ever had a LR warranty or roadside assist claim denied for something on the car unrelated or related to a modification on the car, because there was a mod on the car.

For example, non standard wheels or tyres, lift rods, bullbar, rear wheel carrier , LR tank.

Only interested in people that have have denials and why

[ozscott]

I have dealt with denials in my work. Not Land Rovers but makes no difference. I can't go into details but insurers certainly knock back claims at times based on mods particularly when they were not agreed to by insurer specifically and where it could reasonably be said that the mods contributed to the accident. And I have been involved in denials where the vehicle was modded and the insurer would not have entetered into the contract of insurance haf they been told of the mods. So it does happen.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

I have dealt with denials in my work. Not Land Rovers but makes no difference. I can't go into details but insurers certainly knock back claims at times based on mods particularly when they were not agreed to by insurer specifically and where it could reasonably be said that the mods contributed to the accident. And I have been involved in denials where the vehicle was modded and the insurer would not have entetered into the contract of insurance haf they been told of the mods. So it does happen.

Cheers100% it would happen, anyone not telling insurer about mods or not engineering is on their own in my opinion and asking for trouble .

[blackrangie]

Again (insurance aside) anyone else had any LR warranty or Roadside refused because of mods specifically, if so why?

[rar110]

This mod would meet a very narrow need.

My L322 with extra lift is sufficient gauging my last experience at getting initially hung up on rocks when at Fraser. LLAMS would have been helpful there but this mod would not have been much fun everywhere else.

From my experience at doing a moderate lift on the 110 a few years ago, it’s not a free ride. In my case the front shaft started making noises and the steering went really vague. That’s ONE thing that makes EAS so appealing. I only need to do a lift when required. I don’t need a 4” lift all the time, and have to put up with all the related trade offs.

[blackrangie]

This mod would meet a very narrow need.

My L322 with extra lift is sufficient gauging my last experience at getting initially hung up on rocks when at Fraser. LLAMS would have been helpful there but this mod would not have been much fun everywhere else.

From my experience at doing a moderate lift on the 110 a few years ago, it’s not a free ride. In my case the front shaft started making noises and the steering went really vague. That’s ONE thing that makes EAS so appealing. I only need to do a lift when required. I don’t need a 4” lift all the time, and have to put up with all the related trade offs.

Agreed however i dont believe this type of lift is anything like what you or i have done on a 110 or RRC.

Shafts and Steering are always going to be an issue on solid axle lifts or normal independent lifts.

From what I understand this guys kits take care of everything, whilst leave susp stock.

I could see a 2 and 4 inch kit being very popular for people wanting 33s or 35s on newer lrs, we just need someone to buy a kit and get an engineer to approve its safe in oz. I for sure would do a 2 or 4 it if i had one, maybe after warranty, maybe not.

Lift rods use some of your travel to get lift, this doesn't, its just like a body lift but better as it doesn't affect any safety of airbags etc.

[trout1105]

ANY lift on ANY 4WD will raise the centre of gravity and even if the vehicle has been "engineered" it gives the manufacturers and insurance companies an "Out" in case of an accident or a warranty claim.
The lift on this D5 does look good and it allows for bigger/better rubber to be fitted But isn't the D5 supposed to be the best Discovery ever made.
IF this is the case then there is No need to Mod a D5[bigwhistle]

[blackrangie]

ANY lift on ANY 4WD will raise the centre of gravity and even if the vehicle has been "engineered" it gives the manufacturers and insurance companies an "Out" in case of an accident or a warranty claim.
The lift on this D5 does look good and it allows for bigger/better rubber to be fitted But isn't the D5 supposed to be the best Discovery ever made.
IF this is the case then there is No need to Mod a D5[bigwhistle]Engineering is a legal procedure in Australia, it proves legally that you have ensured all the mods don't compromise the vehicle safety.

The insurance company would have to prove the engineer wrong. As long as you haven't used a dodgy engineer, its highly unlikely.

For manufacturers, yes they could try to decline, however they realise the potential social media negative publicity these days from declining warranty claims for ridiculous reasons like you put a bullbar on or you put a 2 inch lift in or 2 inch bigger tyres, so your engine failure was your fault.

Imo if it went to court or fair trading for a warranty claim, manufacturer would have to prove mod you have installed caused the failure on item. For example prove lift caused engine failure.

As for D5, yeah I agree they are probably the best factory ALL terrain terrain 4x4 all things considered at the moment. But who doesn't want 33s or 35s to make it even better and look even tougher with stock susp [emoji1787]. Obviously you would want to go 50mm wider track too.

So far no one has any LR warranty or Roadside refused because of mods specifically. Anyone?

[ozscott]

Mate this thread might be read by less than 1% of those LR owners out there who have modded their vehicle so if you don't get any takers it won't mean much I'm afraid.

Cheers

[weeds]

So he has sold two.....he’d be lucky to sell another two, I doubt he will get a return on his investment.

I assuming to keep all the OEM running gear the frames I can see also accommodate dropping diffs......?

So what’s the net clearance increase under the car....??

If ya want to go bash and crashing on weekends than there is benefits...

For touring around Aus or overlanding around the world it would be a wasted investment.

Oh pretty sure he mentioned 33” tyres.....

[blackrangie]

Mate this thread might be read by less than 1% of those LR owners out there who have modded their vehicle so if you don't get any takers it won't mean much I'm afraid.

CheersYeah I was thinking we should make a new thread on the subject of claims being denied.

However I'm sure if it happened people would post it up on this forum and we would remember it.

[ozscott]

Yep these is probably truth in that too. Having said that my experience is that most people don't mod their 4wds in terms of lifts and chips etc while in warranty as they know how manufacturers treat or may treat such things. It happens more these days than it used to (more with utes) but I can't recall seeing Even d2s modded as new or near new vehicles. Defenders the same and I have yet to see a modified d5. All stock as a rock so far from what I have seen at least.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

Yep these is probably truth in that too. Having said that my experience is that most people don't mod their 4wds in terms of lifts and chips etc while in warranty as they know how manufacturers treat or may treat such things. It happens more these days than it used to (more with utes) but I can't recall seeing Even d2s modded as new or near new vehicles. Defenders the same and I have yet to see a modified d5. All stock as a rock so far from what I have seen at least.

CheersAgreed in the past, now dealer modded cars is a huge industry, look at any ARB facebook page, that's their bread and butter. dealers drop them at ARB,opo,tjm etc and owner picks up with 25-50k mods all under finance. Not a bad way to do it. Seen many a new fender done this way. Basically if mods are avail from main players at time of purchase people will do..agree with chips though, asking for trouble under warranty, although some would disagree.
Hopefully mod companys go faster with New Defender than they have done with discos.

Few modded D5s on here under warranty, with tyres, wheels, bars.

Here a members nice example with off-road tyre/wheels. I'm guessing some kind of air susp electronic mod?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190331/11e7f00bf674686599ea41736783f6d8.jpg

[Arapiles]

I wouldn't fit fat tyres like the ones in the photos in the original post, I'd fit skinny light truck tyres. And then maybe a smaller lift would be all that was necessary.

[Edit: clarified which photos]

[blackrangie]

I wouldn't fit fat tyres like the ones in the photos, I'd fit skinny light truck tyres. And then maybe a smaller lift would be all that was necessary.2 inch? 33x11.5?

[Arapiles]

2 inch? 33x11.5?

Don't know - something to fit 17 inch wheels and 70% height sidewalls.

[blackrangie]

Don't know - something to fit 17 inch wheels and 70% height sidewalls.Just do what lucky 8 have done imo.

However a 2 inch subframe drop would be a much better solution. Thought only 18s were possible with D5? 18 inch with 33s are great combo for touring.

70 % sidewalls on a 33inch tyre would be 23inch rim.

55% sidewalls on 18 inch on a 33inch.





https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190331/24f3cb9f076c30aaa475dd4ba0e31609.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190331/440bd2ca1e84c62c15b6610904f48b7e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190331/fb2c4ee90a7629f9135baae19cf16b54.jpg

[Arapiles]

Thought only 18s were possible with D5? 18 inch with 33s are great combo for touring

Yes, I think that's right, like the D4 - more's the pity.

Edit: of course, in an ideal world LR would be fitting portal hubs.

[CU55TM Disco]

If U want 6" lift and 35s, dont U just buy a Ranger these days??? Thats what all the cool kids seem to be doing...

[blackrangie]

If U want 6" lift and 35s, dont U just buy a Ranger these days??? Thats what all the cool kids seem to be doing...Haha..its ok to put 35s on a RRC and defender but not a RRV, RRS or D5?

Rangers can be good but they are no Rangie [emoji6]

Actually this kit does 37s as per most of the pics.

I think a 2 inch drop for 33s or 4inch drop on 35s would be more suited to Oz and our engineering.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

What on earth do you need 35/37's for?

are you racing The Baja?
The Kings of Hammer?

[CU55TM Disco]

What on earth do you need 35/37's for?

are you racing The Baja?
The Kings of Hammer?

Woolies Car Park I think.

[Arapiles]

Woolies Car Park I think.

But not the underground one ....

[blackrangie]

What on earth do you need 35/37's for?

are you racing The Baja?
The Kings of Hammer?I guess by asking that you may not run 35s, and thats completly fine if that all you need for the terrain you drive. Im not guna get deep into why people want 33s,35s or even 37s in Oz, the answers are varied, well known and obvious I'm sure even if we don't agree with the answers, im sure there are quite a few threads on the subject [emoji1419]. I guess its kinda like saying to someone that visits terrain where a front locker would be useful, "why do you need a front diff lock, isn't just a rear locker or lsd enough, thatl get ya most places wont it? "


35s for KOH not sure if ya'd make it to the first checkpoint bud [emoji8]

[blackrangie]

Woolies Car Park I think.Aldi [emoji1787]

[blackrangie]

But not the underground one ....Haha..however I run 35s (engineered) with a slimline roofrack and dont have air susp and am rarely unable to get into underground carparks when we are in city areas. Most are over 2.1m these days.

With Air Susp you would rarely if ever have a drama imo

[ozscott]

The D2 hipped roof ensures it's a fair bit taller than the RRC. With my 31inch tyres and modest lift it still needs 2.1m.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

Just a quick one guts n girls, this lift kit was put up to start a convo about what lifts are possible on newer LRs RRS, RRV, D5 even possibly the new defender (hopefully).

By showing that a 6inch lift is possible with 37s and that it apparently drives like stock,its not saying lets all go out and do it, it does however show us what is possible at the highest level, from the humble 1inch-2inch lift rods, through to massive 6inch subframe drops. I'm not going to get into why 6inch is never needed discussion and why 37s are for comp guys etc, that's not what this is about, and if thats your thing, great!

Personally im impressed that bigger lifts are possible on a car I thought was only possible to lift in a compromised way.

[blackrangie]

The D2 hipped roof ensures it's a fair bit taller than the RRC. With my 31inch tyres and modest lift it still needs 2.1m.

CheersYeah good point [emoji1419]

I think airbagged D5s would be ok, however not sure of heights on them.

[CU55TM Disco]

It looks the goods on the Rangie, not so sure about the D5, kinda looks a bit stupid, something about that rear wheel placement, looks like when U 6" lift a patrol and dont lengthen the trailing arms. Looks like the rear wheel is going to drive through the back door.

I wonder how it pulls the 35's along??? I actually wonder that about most new 4x4s and all these flash new dual cabs. Its common place to lift them and whack massive rubber on them, but U never hear of anyone re-gearing them to suit.

I guess thats not a problem in Aldi Car park [bigrolf]

Seriously tho, Gearing... Think about it.

[blackrangie]

It looks the goods on the Rangie, not so sure about the D5, kinda looks a bit stupid, something about that rear wheel placement, looks like when U 6" lift a patrol and dont lengthen the trailing arms. Looks like the rear wheel is going to drive through the back door.

I wonder how it pulls the 35's along??? I actually wonder that about most new 4x4s and all these flash new dual cabs. Its common place to lift them and whack massive rubber on them, but U never hear of anyone re-gearing them to suit.

I guess thats not a problem in Aldi Car park [bigrolf]

Seriously tho, Gearing... Think about it.Yeah again its mainly 33s or 35s with or or 4inch drop im actually thinking would be practical in oz.

Who knows what it would look like on a D5 with 35's

Closest example would be the lucky 8 D5 with 33s

Apparently on 37s the supercharged rangie doesn't even notice em on or offroad.

By mentioning Aldi, I'm guessing you are having a dig they dont go offroad when lifted haha..hmm well these guys do, some of the hardest tracks in moab, pics are online if you want to find them [emoji8].

Attached is owner of red one. (Not owner of susp)

Also attached is the lucky 8 disco 5 with just a rod lift and 33s.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190402/0070eba93abba3acca9f9f13ee2892ae.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190402/46dc24b874712580c08c41f58fdc240a.jpg

[Lee Jackson]

I got a quote ... just to see .... 13.5k and 1k for shipping....

[blackrangie]

I got a quote ... just to see .... 13.5k and 1k for shipping....Ahh nice, you did what i did.

I initially though it was just blocks to lower, however there is far more than that, its a very highly engineered kit, and apparently gives a stock feeling RRS, 6 inch lifted on 37s, now that is very very impressive knowing how much work it is to get 4inch and 35s safe at freeway speeds.

Guy has been doing it to hummers for years.

Not many people with a 70-400k car are going to bat an eyelid @ 13.5k, in a similar fashion to people dropping 25-50k+ on a new 79

I want to ask him about the possibility of a 4inch or 2 inch kit, and if so would their be less engineering involved, also do flares and all trim bits come in kit etc.

Will try do that when I have the time, if you have a convo started, maybe give it a shot too if you can, more the merrier.

I think pic below is 35s, before 37s and flares added.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190402/7cc9752c9be8c18b7ac68b2ce343c2f3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190402/8354e71e6968f400c68643a7ebaa3bc1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190402/81c7f63a52ac0b0e5a2a6e5d34541fc9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190402/d860e106295c81a999dd6e731b6e992d.jpg

[ozscott]

Hey...That is nearly as much flex as my D2 has...[emoji16][emoji1787][emoji1787]

[blackrangie]

Hey...That is nearly as much flex as my D2 has...[emoji16][emoji1787][emoji1787]Well it hasn't lifted a wheel there, so who knows, potentially more, not bad for ifs [emoji8]

[trout1105]

I got a quote ... just to see .... 13.5k and 1k for shipping....

Then you will have a few $K for fitting and another few $K for new wheels and tyres So potentially $15K-$20K to have this mod done, Then you will have to factor in the potential for a loss of market value due to this mod when you sell/trade it in.

[weeds]

Then you will have a few $K for fitting and another few $K for new wheels and tyres So potentially $15K-$20K to have this mod done, Then you will have to factor in the potential for a loss of market value due to this mod when you sell/trade it in.

Add engineering as well......

Don’t you will see many rolling around Aus......

[blackrangie]

Then you will have a few $K for fitting and another few $K for new wheels and tyres So potentially $15K-$20K to have this mod done, Then you will have to factor in the potential for a loss of market value due to this mod when you sell/trade it in.

100% agree if not more, none of that i can see as being issues to people that own these sort of cars, the results of a RRS, RRV or D5 with the tyres of your choice up to 35s, stock feel and no decrease in downtravel, stock susp and heights, highway safety as it can still drop to its standard lowest airbag height.

Many people have spent much more than that on storm and LS builds at LRA on cars 10-30 years old.

Again if your spending 70-400k on a car, 20k no a big deal, many new 200series cruisers dont get picked up before 25k has been dropped at ARB.

Generally people dont buy new LR's for market resale, they buy them because they are the best in their class and special.

Having said that, the red one was for sale a while back @ 5k more than market value according to forums, no idea if it sold or what it sold for to be fair.

[blackrangie]

Add engineering as well......

Don’t you will see many rolling around Aus......

Yeah 100% with engineering, regarding that, from what we have seen of this kit, iyo can you see any issues actually getting engineered at 4inch and 35s. From what i can see lifting in this way overcomes all the usual issues with Safety Airbags, TC etc.

In regards to seeing many rolling around, i guess the need is there as many want to lift by 2inches, some would like 4 but no options. In my opinion we are restricted by current percieved options.

I see 2 or 4 being reasonable options for OZ, more mods avail for them the better yeah?

[trout1105]

Many people do spend quite a bit of coin making their 4WD's fit for what they personally want them for, Myself included.
However from an economic viewpoint this clearly isn't a very smart choice.
I do try to keep my 4WD's as "Stock" as I possibly can and fitting things like a bullbar, superior rotors/pads and top quality tyres are something that will Enhance their resale value But once you lift a 4wd and add various hard core off road gear to it its resale value diminishes very rapidly as nobody wants to buy a truck that has been used extensively off road and they prefer the trucks that have mainly been used to pick the kids up from soccer training.

[blackrangie]

Many people do spend quite a bit of coin making their 4WD's fit for what they personally want them for, Myself included.
However from an economic viewpoint this clearly isn't a very smart choice.
I do try to keep my 4WD's as "Stock" as I possibly can and fitting things like a bullbar, superior rotors/pads and top quality tyres are something that will Enhance their resale value But once you lift a 4wd and add various hard core off road gear to it its resale value diminishes very rapidly as nobody wants to buy a truck that has been used extensively off road and they prefer the trucks that have mainly been used to pick the kids up from soccer training.Very true, however it doesn't stop most dedicated 4wders, modded Landrovers don't usually get much more than market unless the quality of build and condition of car are very good.

[trout1105]

Very true, however it doesn't stop most dedicated 4wders, modded Landrovers don't usually get much more than market unless the quality of build and condition of car are very good.

They are also a hell of a lot of fun to drive[thumbsupbig][bigrolf]
My 79 series has a mild lift and some suspension and engine upgrades and it is Much better to drive on and off road than a Stock 79 series is, Strangely though these sorts of mods on this particular vehicle tend to "Enhance" the resale value of the trucks instead of harming it.
The 4" stainless exhaust system also sounds bloody Amazing when you put the boot into it[bigrolf]

[blackrangie]

Yes, a few tastefull mods really can transform a 4x4, only thing to be mindfull of with some manufacturers is when you try and claim warranty if that bothers you, especially when changing anything to do with the engine [emoji15]

Something to consider with all mods including this lift if anyone does it.

[MitchellBros4x4]

There's no legal pathway to get any vehicle with stability control engineered at that size lift and in fact, anything over 2" with stability control aren't legally possible at this time.

The maximum lift size is 5" on non stability control vehicles which includes suspension lift and tyre lift.

[trout1105]

By simply fitting higher profile tyres you can achive a Modest lift without the added expense and other problems asociated whith fitting a lift kit,
It is also extreamly simple to put the truck back into "Stock" condition when you are disposing of it.
A tyre lift is also more effective than a lift kit as it raises the diffs which are the lowest part of the truck[thumbsupbig]
I fitted a set of 265/75/16 to my Navara instaed of the standard 265/70/16 and it raised the truck a tad over 1", It doesn't sound like much But it does make a hell of a difference in soft sand and tracks that have a high "Crown" on them[thumbsupbig]

[akovach]

Agreed in the past, now dealer modded cars is a huge industry, look at any ARB facebook page, that's their bread and butter. dealers drop them at ARB,opo,tjm etc and owner picks up with 25-50k mods all under finance. Not a bad way to do it. Seen many a new fender done this way. Basically if mods are avail from main players at time of purchase people will do..agree with chips though, asking for trouble under warranty, although some would disagree.
Hopefully mod companys go faster with New Defender than they have done with discos.

Few modded D5s on here under warranty, with tyres, wheels, bars.

Here a members nice example with off-road tyre/wheels. I'm guessing some kind of air susp electronic mod?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190331/11e7f00bf674686599ea41736783f6d8.jpg

I just don't think it looks right. In fact, I think it looks quite silly. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[INter674]

79 series...I'm sorry..but mods are mandatory on 79 series often to correct the poor/short cut yota design elements.

I've travelled with a few and have been stunned at the coin chucked at them to mod suspension and wheel track and alternator etc etc and even then they perform quite ordinarily off road seemingly to want to rock n roll n tip over too easily.

A Relative works on modding them and says its common for 79 series to soak up 100k plus in his shop...and often much more😐. Good for their business tho!

But what else is there. ..as Ronnie Dahl says.

Again apologies to all 79 owners out there😕

[ozscott]

There's no legal pathway to get any vehicle with stability control engineered at that size lift and in fact, anything over 2" with stability control aren't legally possible at this time.

The maximum lift size is 5" on non stability control vehicles which includes suspension lift and tyre lift.Many thanks for that. I have been of that view for a while but good to get it clarified.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

There's no legal pathway to get any vehicle with stability control engineered at that size lift and in fact, anything over 2" with stability control aren't legally possible at this time.

The maximum lift size is 5" on non stability control vehicles which includes suspension lift and tyre lift.Respectfully, It really depends on the engineer and how up to date they are with the latest RMS document and also in some cases if they are willing to legally go outside of RMS mod doc to prove something safe. This is just the reality of engineering as we all know.

Also for the most part im going to talk about NSW, however most states are inline or coming inline with this.

The RMS doc in some cases is a guide for engineers, some Engineers will legally go outside of this document if they can prove it is safe, however with ESC lifts of up to 150mm incl tyres they would NOT need to go beyond what is included in rms mod doc.

Infact the RMS lift guidelines themselves state this and allow for lifts above 150mm incl tyres if safe and dont say ESC is excluded from this.

With ESC, RMS guidelines say it must be tested and proved safe with a defined test by engineer, the test is stated in the doc.

Most states now allow you to go 75mm total with tyres without certification even with ESC.

From: Light vehicle modifications manual:
Suspension and ride height

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/registration/get-nsw-registration/light-vehicle-modifications-manual-suspension-and-ride-height.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjZv_SdhbXhAhUSXisKHWr5AyoQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1624lP0UxnGlPNyhPSC2eO


So basically in NSW in nutshell, if an engineer can prove a 4x4 lift (even with ESC) safe within the test guidelines it can be certified.

So even a 6inch RRS, RRV, D5 lift if proved safe under testing guidelines could be certed legally in NSW.

Imo knowing how fast RRS, RRV and D5s can go in the twistys, a 4inch susp drop and 33s or 35s is completely reasonable to expect to pass, especially considering the ESC test stated can be done at 80kph.

Keep in mind engineers also have the ability to limit a top speed on paper (small sticker on windscreen saying 120kph max for example) if you exceed you are going outside of your cert.
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[blackrangie]

By simply fitting higher profile tyres you can achive a Modest lift without the added expense and other problems asociated whith fitting a lift kit,
It is also extreamly simple to put the truck back into "Stock" condition when you are disposing of it.
A tyre lift is also more effective than a lift kit as it raises the diffs which are the lowest part of the truck[thumbsupbig]
I fitted a set of 265/75/16 to my Navara instaed of the standard 265/70/16 and it raised the truck a tad over 1", It doesn't sound like much But it does make a hell of a difference in soft sand and tracks that have a high "Crown" on them[thumbsupbig]I would add to this 2 inch lift rods, or electronic 2 inch lift for RRS, RRV, D5, Velar. Easy simple reliable.

[blackrangie]

79 series...I'm sorry..but mods are mandatory on 79 series often to correct the poor/short cut yota design elements.

I've travelled with a few and have been stunned at the coin chucked at them to mod suspension and wheel track and alternator etc etc and even then they perform quite ordinarily off road seemingly to want to rock n roll n tip over too easily.

A Relative works on modding them and says its common for 79 series to soak up 100k plus in his shop...and often much more[emoji52]. Good for their business tho!

But what else is there. ..as Ronnie Dahl says.

Again apologies to all 79 owners out there[emoji53]Yeah without wanting to go off topic, we have been through this massively in the new defender threads, 79s are great for what they are but need quite a lot of mods to fix factory defects (some can't be fixed like the starter location) Current defers are great but also have issues although less, with transfer needing a lube mod, rear diff usually needs an upgrade etc.
Just depends what you want and how much your willing to spend, both very different vehicles. Compared to a D5, RRS or RRV, there in a different class so no comparison either way.

[blackrangie]

Many thanks for that. I have been of that view for a while but good to get it clarified.

CheersFrom memory this was the case at one stage, however from information on NSW RMS website now, certainly engineering is much more reasonable and fair regarding lifting 4x4s of any kind.

[blackrangie]

I just don't think it looks right. In fact, I think it looks quite silly. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.Imo looks better than stock, but needs barwork, rear spare holder on roofrack to finish it off.

[ozscott]

Interesting discussion. Thanks for posting up parts of the Code Blackrangie. I think the takeaway from this is don't assume you will get 1. Lifts on ESC vehicles engineer approved (especially bigger ones) and 2. Insurance either way. Take nothing for granted and if you have the perseverance, time and money then be prepared to weave through the minefield.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

Interesting discussion. Thanks for posting up parts of the Code Blackrangie. I think the takeaway from this is don't assume you will get 1. Lifts on ESC vehicles engineer approved (especially bigger ones) and 2. Insurance either way. Take nothing for granted and if you have the perseverance, time and money then be prepared to weave through the minefield.

CheersAgreed! Good to also know more than what is commonly known as the limits is possible.

[Lee Jackson]

Hi BlackRangie,

That is my Car up the top and I have had no Susp work done.. Not even Llams.


I'm guessing some kind of air susp electronic mod?

[blackrangie]

Hi BlackRangie,

That is my Car up the top and I have had no Susp work done.. Not even Llams.


I'm guessing some kind of air susp electronic mod?


Impressive!

[blackrangie]

With my own personal experience with engineering twice, it is best to run everything past your engineer first and keep them in the loop during the build so there's no surprises, this approach will usually end up with a positive result.

[jbe]

Very interesting post. My two cents would be to make sure that you have an insurance company willing to insure the modified vehicle even if the engineer is more than willing to certify the suspension modifications.

[blackrangie]

Very interesting post. My two cents would be to make sure that you have an insurance company willing to insure the modified vehicle even if the engineer is more than willing to certify the suspension modifications.Spot on!.. legally you are covered and insured if (A) You have engineered ALL mods that need engineering AND (B)You insure your insurance company lists all your mods on your policy and still insures you.

Club 4x4 and Shannons are two with good reps. Usually covered as long as you are legally allowed to be driving there.

For those reading from O/S Yes its harder to mod your car in OZ, but it means our loved ones or friends are much less likely to be mowed down by a dangerously modified 4x4. For example 4inch lift, 37s and no attention to brakes or bodyroll.

[Graeme]

That 2016 RMS/RTA document is out of date. IIRC major restrictive changes occurred in 2018 regarding body, suspension and tyre lifts.

IMO anyone believing that a 9" lifted (6" body and half the 6" larger dia tyre) RRS or D5 handles the same as originally is very gullible. I can feel when I've inadvertently left my L322 raised by 30mm.

[Graeme]

That is my Car up the top and I have had no Susp work done.. Not even Llams.Was an IIDTool used to adjust the height? If so then no effective difference to Llams.

[weeds]

That 2016 RMS/RTA document is out of date. IIRC major restrictive changes occurred in 2018 regarding body, suspension and tyre lifts.

IMO anyone believing that a 9" lifted (6" body and half the 6" larger dia tyre) RRS or D5 handles the same as originally is very gullible. I can feel when I've inadvertently left my L322 raised by 30mm.

Don’t let that get in the way of lifting a D5

[blackrangie]

That 2016 RMS/RTA document is out of date. IIRC major restrictive changes occurred in 2018 regarding body, suspension and tyre lifts.

IMO anyone believing that a 9" lifted (6" body and half the 6" larger dia tyre) RRS or D5 handles the same as originally is very gullible. I can feel when I've inadvertently left my L322 raised by 30mm.

The suspension manual is a live document, which means its constantly updated, it takes precedent over VSB14 where there is a conflict and also refers to VSB14

Its the latest RMS, NSW Suspension Manual which engineers work from.

Confirmed by my engineer.



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190404/1f17210eb7b742d88f52ff2115e53c33.jpg
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[Ultraflex4x4]

Look as it stands the kit is ROAD LEGAL in All states in AU NZ
35's would have to be engineered .
The price tag is not palatable @ 20K + freight and duty.
Why is it legal ? You might well ask ..
Because it will sit in ROAD MODE at the stock height. Period.
If you would like more answers just ask me .
Garret
************ Sydney Australia.
+61423346612

[IndusD4]

Was an IIDTool used to adjust the height? If so then no effective difference to Llams.

The IIDTool at the moment only reads and clears fault codes for the D5, suspension changes and CCF changes do not work. The suspension on Lee's car is likely in offroad 2 setting (+75mm).

Ron

[blackrangie]

Look as it stands the kit is ROAD LEGAL in All states in AU NZ
35's would have to be engineered .
The price tag is not palatable @ 20K + freight and duty.
Why is it legal ? You might well ask ..
Because it will sit in ROAD MODE at the stock height. Period.
If you would like more answers just ask me .
Garret
************ Sydney Australia.
+61423346612Interesting will have to find out what method he uses to get susp to drive in normal road mode, lower than stock.

[blackrangie]

Anyone know with ID tool or other electronic susp adjustment tools the lowest you can safely adjust normal freeway height to on a new RRS, RRVogue or D5?

-25, -35, -50?

[Graeme]

LLAMS is programmed to lower the L494 by 18mm or 34mm by calibration option and the L405 and L462 by 21mm or 39mm by calibration option. The 18mm/21mm default lowering when used with access height is very close to the bump-stops. The 34mm/39mm option cannot be used with access height because the suspension won't go that low. Note that the L494 sits lower than the L405/L462.

[blackrangie]

LLAMS is programmed to lower the L494 by 18mm or 34mm by calibration option and the L405 and L462 by 21mm or 39mm by calibration option. The 18mm/21mm default lowering when used with access height is very close to the bump-stops. The 34mm/39mm option cannot be used with access height because the suspension won't go that low. Note that the L494 sits lower than the L405/L462.

Hmm thanks so on freeway minimum lower than stock height?

L495 13mm
L405 L462 18mm

No other way to go lower at freeway height with LLAMS?

[Graeme]

The Vogue and Disco can lower normal height by 39mm although I strongly suspect this would not be advisable due to lack of suspension travel resulting in the vehicle continually bouncing off the bump-stops on minor surface irregularities, so realistically 21mm. The RRS is either 34mm or 18mm with the same expected bouncing if lowered 34mm for other than moving slowly.
These vehicles don't have the high speed lowering of the L319/L320/L322 - they stay at normal height.

[blackrangie]

The Vogue and Disco can lower normal height by 39mm although I strongly suspect this would not be advisable due to lack of suspension travel resulting in the vehicle continually bouncing off the bump-stops on minor surface irregularities, so realistically 21mm. The RRS is either 34mm or 18mm with the same expected bouncing if lowered 34mm for other than moving slowly.
These vehicles don't have the high speed lowering of the L319/L320/L322 - they stay at normal height.Very interesting and helpful

[blackrangie]

The Vogue and Disco can lower normal height by 39mm although I strongly suspect this would not be advisable due to lack of suspension travel resulting in the vehicle continually bouncing off the bump-stops on minor surface irregularities, so realistically 21mm. The RRS is either 34mm or 18mm with the same expected bouncing if lowered 34mm for other than moving slowly.
These vehicles don't have the high speed lowering of the L319/L320/L322 - they stay at normal height.

So LLAMS max recommended max

Vogue 21mm

Disco 21mm

RRS 18mm

Would it be fair to say all three could be pushed to 25mm without much drama with whatever tool allows specific mm of drop.

So 1inch drop

So potentially you could do a 4inch subframe drop, and 1 inch elec suspension drop and only lift 3inches for engineering purposes + say 50mm tyres giving you:

100mm total onroad lift
offroad 125mm+
or 100mm tyres giving you 150mm lift onroad or 175mm lift offroad

Or

3inch sub drop, 1 inch electric susp drop + 2inch tyre increase for max lift without cert. Total 75mm onroad lift, offroad 100mm+ lift

[Graeme]

I'm confused. You asked about suspension lowering then speak of sub-frame lowering. The discussion was of a kit to raise the body so I suspect you were wanting to know how far the suspension can electronically or otherwise be raised, not lowered. Those Llams measurements are for lowering the vehicle, not for raising.

Llams' medium raised is OR1 height (35mm RRS, 40mm Vogue & D5) and high raised 54mm/63mm or by calibration option OR2 height (65mm/75mm). However I'm not proposing that a raised height be used when road conditions don't warrant although a lot of my GC kits are fitted to obtain guard clearance for larger tyres.

[blackrangie]

I'm confused. You asked about suspension lowering then speak of sub-frame lowering. The discussion was of a kit to raise the body so I suspect you were wanting to know how far the suspension can electronically or otherwise be raised, not lowered. Those Llams measurements are for lowering the vehicle, not for raising.

Llams' medium raised is OR1 height (35mm RRS, 40mm Vogue & D5) and high raised 54mm/63mm or by calibration option OR2 height (65mm/75mm). However I'm not proposing that a raised height be used when road conditions don't warrant although a lot of my GC kits are fitted to obtain guard clearance for larger tyres.If you lower the suspension electroniclly in conjunction with lifting the suspension mechanically (subframe drop) you end up with net lower lift on freeway, and max lift for tyres and clearance offroad and stock up/down travel

[Graeme]

Its just terminology but it needs to be precise so that the discussion is properly understood. Raising the body off the sub-frames doesn't touch the suspension. The sub-frames aren't lowered as they are not closer to the ground - the body is lifted. Raising the suspension by using Llams or other means lifts the sub-frame above where it normally sits - the suspension is not lowered.

Using Llams or other means to raise the suspension does not retain stock up/down travel even though the full travel is unchanged.

[blackrangie]

Its just terminology but it needs to be precise so that the discussion is properly understood. Raising the body off the sub-frames doesn't touch the suspension. The sub-frames aren't lowered as they are not closer to the ground - the body is lifted. Raising the suspension by using Llams or other means lifts the sub-frame above where it normally sits - the suspension is not lowered.

Using Llams or other means to raise the suspension does not retain stock up/down travel even though the full travel is unchanged.You are correct.

Lets maybe call them, Subframe spacers [emoji1417]

Say you did a 4inch Subframe spacer

Then adjusted electronically the suspensions height to 1 inch lower than stock at normal height.

All other electronic heights including off road are as per standard.

This gives you a 3 inch lift on the freeway compared to the standard onroad normal height. (Safer and easier to engineer)

It also gives you a 4 inch lift compared to the standard off-road height, when you really need the extra height for tyre clearance at top of your travel + greater obstacle clearance.

This also gives you standard up and down travel in the off-road height setting as this height setting has not been touched electronically.

The only thing you will lose is 1 inch of up travel on road.

[Graeme]

Now I understand!